Probably will be a lot of people impacted. Not sure if they are all hard working, though.
It seems that the real desire of most people is to see AIG brought down. The insurance industry does not have the financial strength to weather that occurrence. They barely made it through Kemper and Reliance.
Maybe the solution, though, IS for AIG to wind down their operations and simply be an investment company. Let the market go where it will. Let the various industries relying on AIG coverage, the various policyholders who can’t get coverage elsewhere go without, let the emplyees go to work for other insurance companies.
The financial impact on AIG is projected at 2% of Stockholders equity if all the public numbers are accurate. Even if the nubmers are doubled, they will have minimal impact on the continuing operations of AIG. Wouldn’t times be exciting, though, if AIG were not in the market. Everyone could rely on ACE and St. Paul/Travelers…oh, they have their own problems too. Maybe it can all go to CNA…oops, pending insolvency there…Zurich maybe? Nah, not much chance they would pick up the market share. Munich? Remember MARP! Allianz? They would have to reinvest in Fireman’s Fund and that seems to be far from their mind.
Definitely an interesting scenario to let the agents/brokers sink or swim without the AIG companies.
A long time ago, there was an oil company that was very large and dominated the industry. There was also a phone company that also dominated the industry. I beleive the US GOV. ordered these companies to be broken up into smaller companies. Was that good or bad ???
2.63 a gallon and climbing…..poor phone service, with continuing industry consolidation…back to basically one or two companies….looks like I was better off before they were broken up, but hey, those breakups allowed the government the opportunity to spend countless billions of dollars reregulating those industries, so it can’t be all bad, can it? Continued employment for the federal employees.
Maybe the government could break up the IRS next, they seem to be egregiously violating the rights of you and me on a daily basis…guilty until proven innocent when you go in front of them for an audit.
But my comments focused on how the industry would respond. I don’t think most of the industry has the financial wherewithal to assume risk, so we really don’t have to worry…don’t forget, there would also be a lot of unemployed lawyers when there was no insurance company left to sue.
Don’t be stupid. The industry couldn’t survive without AIG and neither could the financial markets! Not to mention the public. The lumps will be taken and life will continue for AIG.
You sound like a child. It is nice AIG provides a market. It does not justify the lack of integrity and unwillingness of the management/ownership regime to own up to the fact their has INDEED been improprieties and *gasp* maybe room for improvement!
Oh, come on! The industry couldn’t live without AIG. HA! Were you raised at 70 Pine?
Two things. First, to compare AIG to Standard Oil, AT&T or even Microsoft is an absolute joke. Just look at AIG marketshare. Big in relativity terms, but tiny in terms of the world financial marketplace, even domestic marketplace. Sure, AIG has significant positions in many, many underserved market segments in many underserved geographic locations, however the free market system will fill whatever temporary vaccuum might result. There were many vibrant companies taking unusual risk before AIG became the 300 lb gorilla and drove them out of their segments using predatory market practices, behind the scenes bid rigging, restraint of trade leveraging, and hell-will-freeze-over claim handling. And when those didn’t work, they bought the competitor outright. Monopolies or trusts are truly harmful to the free market system…but this ain’t one of them.
Second. Guilt is black and white. Even in white collar crime. Organizations that employ immoral business practices harm the free market system far more than their immediate dollar impact on stockholder value, their life-disrupting impact on their human capital, or their financial impact to their policyholders, if any. The true harm is in the tarnish that the ‘survivors’ carry as we continue to provide a valuable product and service to the insurance buying customer. We sell a promise to pay to our customers. When we are viewed as an immoral industry due to the misguided and greedy practices of a few players, our industry suffers. Just look over on Wall Street for a nice fresh example in investment brokerage. Perhaps that is what you meant when you said the industry would not survive?
As Hank himself was fond of saying: “All I want is an unfair advantage.” It’s the ends that he went to in obtainig that unfair advantage that eventually tripped him up. Just wait until the Starr International balloon bursts and the general public gets a sniff of just how vast, deep and corrupt the executive compensation program is for AIG’s decision makers. It will get interesting if the papers haven’t been destroyed or removed. There, now there’s a connection to Enron.
The fact that Hank and his posse felt they were so big and so important that they were above the laws of society and commerce needs to echo throughout this industry for the next several months.
After a short while, the industry will be far better off without Hank Greenberg and the ‘win at all costs’ culture he created and championed at AIG.
You conspirasts are amazing. AIG is the one organization in this industry that promotes entreprenuership and therefore evolution of coverages. Before AIG pushed everyone through competition, this was a sad and lazy industry. Why do you think the prototypical ins. exec is the suffy old fart sitting in an ivory tower and not knowing any of their own operations.
This industry would still be 10-15 years back without AIG – led by Greenberg. Without the pressure put on the industry by AIG, as well as on their employees, we would still be sitting back, mired in the basic ISO coverages. This would leave us with the government programs to fill in the void (e.g TRIA, flood, etc.) Unfortunately the list would be much longer!
This is a lazy and unimaginative industry to its core. The AIG’s are welcome to move it along.
You sound like the young consultants at the bank that think savings interest rates have never been over 1%….
AIG is an investment company. The choose to ignore insurance rules and regulations from the top management to their day to day operations. They do not educate their employees other that through their own “sub culture” (incidently, you sound immersed).
Their commissions are low, they are understaffed and they work their people to death.
Oddly, there is a certain personality they have absolutely pegged for loyalty. You must foot the bill.
I think you are correct about the AIG beining innovative and forcing the industry to offer more than “Vanilla” Insurance programs.
I also think thats why they should be doing it better. Anyone can do what they did if they dont play by the rules.
Maybey this entire invetigation will be a good thing and cause the AIG to pay claims on a more timely baiss rather than categorically deny them when coverage is clearly there.
Lovely, eloquent, intelligent. Bravo. I like knowing minds such as yours are involved in this industry. You speak clear and true.
I bet a lot of hard working people will get thrown in the volcano before this is over.
Probably will be a lot of people impacted. Not sure if they are all hard working, though.
It seems that the real desire of most people is to see AIG brought down. The insurance industry does not have the financial strength to weather that occurrence. They barely made it through Kemper and Reliance.
Maybe the solution, though, IS for AIG to wind down their operations and simply be an investment company. Let the market go where it will. Let the various industries relying on AIG coverage, the various policyholders who can’t get coverage elsewhere go without, let the emplyees go to work for other insurance companies.
The financial impact on AIG is projected at 2% of Stockholders equity if all the public numbers are accurate. Even if the nubmers are doubled, they will have minimal impact on the continuing operations of AIG. Wouldn’t times be exciting, though, if AIG were not in the market. Everyone could rely on ACE and St. Paul/Travelers…oh, they have their own problems too. Maybe it can all go to CNA…oops, pending insolvency there…Zurich maybe? Nah, not much chance they would pick up the market share. Munich? Remember MARP! Allianz? They would have to reinvest in Fireman’s Fund and that seems to be far from their mind.
Definitely an interesting scenario to let the agents/brokers sink or swim without the AIG companies.
A long time ago, there was an oil company that was very large and dominated the industry. There was also a phone company that also dominated the industry. I beleive the US GOV. ordered these companies to be broken up into smaller companies. Was that good or bad ???
2.63 a gallon and climbing…..poor phone service, with continuing industry consolidation…back to basically one or two companies….looks like I was better off before they were broken up, but hey, those breakups allowed the government the opportunity to spend countless billions of dollars reregulating those industries, so it can’t be all bad, can it? Continued employment for the federal employees.
Maybe the government could break up the IRS next, they seem to be egregiously violating the rights of you and me on a daily basis…guilty until proven innocent when you go in front of them for an audit.
But my comments focused on how the industry would respond. I don’t think most of the industry has the financial wherewithal to assume risk, so we really don’t have to worry…don’t forget, there would also be a lot of unemployed lawyers when there was no insurance company left to sue.
Don’t be stupid. The industry couldn’t survive without AIG and neither could the financial markets! Not to mention the public. The lumps will be taken and life will continue for AIG.
You sound like a child. It is nice AIG provides a market. It does not justify the lack of integrity and unwillingness of the management/ownership regime to own up to the fact their has INDEED been improprieties and *gasp* maybe room for improvement!
Oh, come on! The industry couldn’t live without AIG. HA! Were you raised at 70 Pine?
Two things. First, to compare AIG to Standard Oil, AT&T or even Microsoft is an absolute joke. Just look at AIG marketshare. Big in relativity terms, but tiny in terms of the world financial marketplace, even domestic marketplace. Sure, AIG has significant positions in many, many underserved market segments in many underserved geographic locations, however the free market system will fill whatever temporary vaccuum might result. There were many vibrant companies taking unusual risk before AIG became the 300 lb gorilla and drove them out of their segments using predatory market practices, behind the scenes bid rigging, restraint of trade leveraging, and hell-will-freeze-over claim handling. And when those didn’t work, they bought the competitor outright. Monopolies or trusts are truly harmful to the free market system…but this ain’t one of them.
Second. Guilt is black and white. Even in white collar crime. Organizations that employ immoral business practices harm the free market system far more than their immediate dollar impact on stockholder value, their life-disrupting impact on their human capital, or their financial impact to their policyholders, if any. The true harm is in the tarnish that the ‘survivors’ carry as we continue to provide a valuable product and service to the insurance buying customer. We sell a promise to pay to our customers. When we are viewed as an immoral industry due to the misguided and greedy practices of a few players, our industry suffers. Just look over on Wall Street for a nice fresh example in investment brokerage. Perhaps that is what you meant when you said the industry would not survive?
As Hank himself was fond of saying: “All I want is an unfair advantage.” It’s the ends that he went to in obtainig that unfair advantage that eventually tripped him up. Just wait until the Starr International balloon bursts and the general public gets a sniff of just how vast, deep and corrupt the executive compensation program is for AIG’s decision makers. It will get interesting if the papers haven’t been destroyed or removed. There, now there’s a connection to Enron.
The fact that Hank and his posse felt they were so big and so important that they were above the laws of society and commerce needs to echo throughout this industry for the next several months.
After a short while, the industry will be far better off without Hank Greenberg and the ‘win at all costs’ culture he created and championed at AIG.
R.I.P.
You conspirasts are amazing. AIG is the one organization in this industry that promotes entreprenuership and therefore evolution of coverages. Before AIG pushed everyone through competition, this was a sad and lazy industry. Why do you think the prototypical ins. exec is the suffy old fart sitting in an ivory tower and not knowing any of their own operations.
This industry would still be 10-15 years back without AIG – led by Greenberg. Without the pressure put on the industry by AIG, as well as on their employees, we would still be sitting back, mired in the basic ISO coverages. This would leave us with the government programs to fill in the void (e.g TRIA, flood, etc.) Unfortunately the list would be much longer!
This is a lazy and unimaginative industry to its core. The AIG’s are welcome to move it along.
You sound like the young consultants at the bank that think savings interest rates have never been over 1%….
AIG is an investment company. The choose to ignore insurance rules and regulations from the top management to their day to day operations. They do not educate their employees other that through their own “sub culture” (incidently, you sound immersed).
Their commissions are low, they are understaffed and they work their people to death.
Oddly, there is a certain personality they have absolutely pegged for loyalty. You must foot the bill.
I think you are correct about the AIG beining innovative and forcing the industry to offer more than “Vanilla” Insurance programs.
I also think thats why they should be doing it better. Anyone can do what they did if they dont play by the rules.
Maybey this entire invetigation will be a good thing and cause the AIG to pay claims on a more timely baiss rather than categorically deny them when coverage is clearly there.