He is putting his political asperations ahead of the public good. Of course, it is okay for him to get ahead financialy, but how dare an insurance broker make his or her worth. The guy fits his name, he is spitting on society. We need to ignore societies trolls like Elliot Spitzer.
The article implies that fines were paid by guilty brokers. However, to my knowledge none of the brokers were found guilty of anything and they were not fines as such!
In certain ways I agree with the sentiment that Mr.S is looking out for his own ambitions. However, and make no mistake, there was a substantial level of wrong doings uncovered and the fines/penalties levied against these guys were well justified – regardless of what you think of Spitzer. It goes beyond contigent fees and placeent agreements. There are some in this business who have forgotten what we do and why we are here in the first place and greed overcame them. I am not against making an honest living but I do not appreciate deceptive, cheating criminals either who give the rest of us a bad name.
There are laws in place for criminal behavior, what Spitzer wants to do is go beyond the the laws by saying “how dare you charge those fee” or “how dare you take “profitability bonuses.” Remember, the client chose to do business with the agencies and pay those fee. Also, profitability bonuses help for sound underwriting practices. The bottom line is that Spitzer is a typical socialist for home it is okay for him to do well in soceity, but of course how dare we make money. Remember, in his mind, he is better than us and screw us, his political asperations are more important.
1. Spitzer piqued too early. By the time elections roll around, he will be forgotten!
2. There is nothing wrong with the basic profitability/contigency bonuses as the typical agency knows them. However, what Marsh, Aon and the big guys negotiated and did with theirs was unethical and they deserved a fine.
3. Spitzer tried his case in the media in order to further his political aspirations.
IndAgent you’ve got it right. There were bad actors with all the brokers, but the brokers are not gulity of any crimes. They were coerced into paying hush money.
Regardless of what the political aspirations of Spitzer happen to be there is a real problem inside the insurance industry. The growing number of headlines across the country providing more and more information regarding the wrong doings of insurance professionals is embarassing. Insurance is based on the principal of indemnity. How is this outragous behavior consistent with that principal? Until there is a real reform of this industry and active policing of the laws as well as consumer education things are just going to continue to get worse. President Bush should become more proactive into finding a solution before natural disasters devastate this country and bankrupt the companies involved. Last year’s hurricane season should be a wake up call. How many homeowners in Florida are still trying to settle last years claims and how many homes are still without roofs or walls?
Dear indAgent – the matter goes beyond contingent income and fees. Please recall the countless instances of bid rigging betweeen the big 3 and their underwriter counterparts at AIG et.al. It is not fair nor ethical and anyone who considers that to be a part of the “right to make a profit” in reality has no business in this industry.
If you are in the retail side of insurance, you will fully know that portion of clients want to pay nothing for insurance (and in turn, they get nothing). When a claim hits, these very same people pretend that they bought the best policy in the world. That is where the problem lies. I doudt you are in the insurance business because you would fully know a company cannot sustain itself if it does not collect the appropriate premium for the coverages and risk they are insuring. And politics, I am sure you are not involved in it one iota, I am sure you mention President Bush is such a bi-partisan way and pretending he does not know what he is doing. Now that is very bi-partisan!!!
Do not give them their fair day in court, just presume they are guilty. If they did something illegal, all Spitzer needs to do is take them to court. He did not, instead he blackmailed them because he knows he has no case.
Nevertheless, please provides specific details of such rigging. Please no vague answers, it seems like you have information that other people don’t have. I will await your response.
“No public firm has survived a criminal indictment.” The dynamics of these broker investigations would be very different if the targets weren’t publicly held. When even the “hint” of an investigation can knock hundreds, maybe billions off market cap it is a very uneven playing field. Anyway, the P&C stuff is old news after AIG settles…on to the suitability of variable annuities sales to old folks.
It is apparent to me that I am discussing an issue with someone who keeps their head in the sand and quite frankly, I do not have the time for it. People do not plead guilty to criminal offenses for nothing. Blackmailed ? for what ?
Please – I am done with you
Jeff, I am shocked that someone of your caliber would walk away and admit defeat like that. Don’t you believe in your cause? Is your cause that important to you that you run away? So my head is the sand? I was not weak eough to yield to you? I must listen to you and agree with you or “my head is in the sand?” There you have it, a typical liberal whom we must all answer to! Then when we don’t, he crys and runs away!!! I love it! The GOP controls the Presidency, the Senate, the house and the Governorships! These people are losing it, but in the mean time, I am having a blast!
They plead guilty or else…Pleading guilty and paying on the spot might – only might – keep them off public view for the time that a trial would take, months, perhaps years. Oh yes it IS blackmail but they deserve it. It’s a good cause…
He is putting his political asperations ahead of the public good. Of course, it is okay for him to get ahead financialy, but how dare an insurance broker make his or her worth. The guy fits his name, he is spitting on society. We need to ignore societies trolls like Elliot Spitzer.
He is not a fraud, rather a typical politician. The Fraud was Greenburg.
The article implies that fines were paid by guilty brokers. However, to my knowledge none of the brokers were found guilty of anything and they were not fines as such!
In certain ways I agree with the sentiment that Mr.S is looking out for his own ambitions. However, and make no mistake, there was a substantial level of wrong doings uncovered and the fines/penalties levied against these guys were well justified – regardless of what you think of Spitzer. It goes beyond contigent fees and placeent agreements. There are some in this business who have forgotten what we do and why we are here in the first place and greed overcame them. I am not against making an honest living but I do not appreciate deceptive, cheating criminals either who give the rest of us a bad name.
There are laws in place for criminal behavior, what Spitzer wants to do is go beyond the the laws by saying “how dare you charge those fee” or “how dare you take “profitability bonuses.” Remember, the client chose to do business with the agencies and pay those fee. Also, profitability bonuses help for sound underwriting practices. The bottom line is that Spitzer is a typical socialist for home it is okay for him to do well in soceity, but of course how dare we make money. Remember, in his mind, he is better than us and screw us, his political asperations are more important.
1. Spitzer piqued too early. By the time elections roll around, he will be forgotten!
2. There is nothing wrong with the basic profitability/contigency bonuses as the typical agency knows them. However, what Marsh, Aon and the big guys negotiated and did with theirs was unethical and they deserved a fine.
3. Spitzer tried his case in the media in order to further his political aspirations.
IndAgent you’ve got it right. There were bad actors with all the brokers, but the brokers are not gulity of any crimes. They were coerced into paying hush money.
The irony is Warren Buffett name is mentioned again along with the timing of Spitzer coming to his aid.
Need I mention more? The good old boys club.
The insurance industry dose need to be looked into what is to hide from the people who pay for the services??
Regardless of what the political aspirations of Spitzer happen to be there is a real problem inside the insurance industry. The growing number of headlines across the country providing more and more information regarding the wrong doings of insurance professionals is embarassing. Insurance is based on the principal of indemnity. How is this outragous behavior consistent with that principal? Until there is a real reform of this industry and active policing of the laws as well as consumer education things are just going to continue to get worse. President Bush should become more proactive into finding a solution before natural disasters devastate this country and bankrupt the companies involved. Last year’s hurricane season should be a wake up call. How many homeowners in Florida are still trying to settle last years claims and how many homes are still without roofs or walls?
Greed spawned the Spitzer investigations.
Fear brought on the $$ Billion Dollar $$ settlements.
No Greed–No Fear.
Price fixing; market allocation and kickbacks are usually frowned upon–no matter what you call them.
Transparency regarding agent/broker fees will be the result of this most recent unpleasantness.
Dear indAgent – the matter goes beyond contingent income and fees. Please recall the countless instances of bid rigging betweeen the big 3 and their underwriter counterparts at AIG et.al. It is not fair nor ethical and anyone who considers that to be a part of the “right to make a profit” in reality has no business in this industry.
If you are in the retail side of insurance, you will fully know that portion of clients want to pay nothing for insurance (and in turn, they get nothing). When a claim hits, these very same people pretend that they bought the best policy in the world. That is where the problem lies. I doudt you are in the insurance business because you would fully know a company cannot sustain itself if it does not collect the appropriate premium for the coverages and risk they are insuring. And politics, I am sure you are not involved in it one iota, I am sure you mention President Bush is such a bi-partisan way and pretending he does not know what he is doing. Now that is very bi-partisan!!!
Do not give them their fair day in court, just presume they are guilty. If they did something illegal, all Spitzer needs to do is take them to court. He did not, instead he blackmailed them because he knows he has no case.
Nevertheless, please provides specific details of such rigging. Please no vague answers, it seems like you have information that other people don’t have. I will await your response.
“No public firm has survived a criminal indictment.” The dynamics of these broker investigations would be very different if the targets weren’t publicly held. When even the “hint” of an investigation can knock hundreds, maybe billions off market cap it is a very uneven playing field. Anyway, the P&C stuff is old news after AIG settles…on to the suitability of variable annuities sales to old folks.
It is apparent to me that I am discussing an issue with someone who keeps their head in the sand and quite frankly, I do not have the time for it. People do not plead guilty to criminal offenses for nothing. Blackmailed ? for what ?
Please – I am done with you
Jeff, I am shocked that someone of your caliber would walk away and admit defeat like that. Don’t you believe in your cause? Is your cause that important to you that you run away? So my head is the sand? I was not weak eough to yield to you? I must listen to you and agree with you or “my head is in the sand?” There you have it, a typical liberal whom we must all answer to! Then when we don’t, he crys and runs away!!! I love it! The GOP controls the Presidency, the Senate, the house and the Governorships! These people are losing it, but in the mean time, I am having a blast!
They plead guilty or else…Pleading guilty and paying on the spot might – only might – keep them off public view for the time that a trial would take, months, perhaps years. Oh yes it IS blackmail but they deserve it. It’s a good cause…