Of course they’ll run these poor fellows through the court system until the day they die. State Farm, Farmers and Allstate better take another hard look at their contracts.
Once again the jury got it right and told State Farm they had to have cause to terminate. Let’s see if State Farm will now be able to convince this judge that the jury “may have been confused”.
One other item that is mentioned in this article is the independent contractor status of the agent. State Farm claims them to be independent contractors,and that is what the contract says, but having mandatory meetings and required equipment provided by State Farm violates the independent status. State Farm has perjured itself to the IRS in regard to this and in so doing has avoided, since 1998, approximately $3 Billion of annual payroll from state and federal payroll taxes. In addition they also avoid workmen’s comp on this $3 Billion of payroll. Isn’t it time the IRS made State Farm Executive responsible for their perjury? I have the documentation and can provide it if any reporter would like to do this story and make the public aware of what is going on. Rich Pyorre, Fort Bragg, CA
It never suprises me that things that these State Farm people do. Remeber these are income producing people to the company just think how they treat claims people much less their policy holders. Another on by a corperate gaint trying to take advantage of one of their own. Go figure.
I worked for Farmers for 1 year. Hated it. Point is, the giant direct writers don’t give a rip about the agent that writes biz for them as long as they work, work, work and give, give, give all the live long day. They are too big for their britches and I’m glad someone called them on it. Cheers to the winners.
Cases filed by former American National Property & Casualty agents and MLGA’s are currently percolating through the Texas judicial system using a similar approach.
Way to go Jury ! But it is just a the tip of the iceberg as to what companies continue to do to “their” agents, regardless of the company.
Having been a direct writer for the first ten years of my career and now part of the Independent Agency system for the last 27 years, I know that if any insurance company could figure a way to do away with the agents they would do so without blinking an eye. All you have to do is look at Progressive on the casualty side and all the group carriers like Aetna, UHC and the rest and Allstate is on both sides of the street declaring their agents independent contractors , but telling them what, where and how they have to run their business
Insurance companies have always tried to find ways to hamper the client / agent relationship. The findings of this Jury will not stop that, but maybe it will make the companies think twice before taking similar action in the future.
Those who cannot stick to the issue and say something like “Mike, buy a dictionary or get spell check” admit to defeat on the spot. I bet Jack is affiliated with State Farm in someway and this defeat was a blow to him that he had to bring up an issue that is not an issue in these postings.
Come on folks. 1. This is a pretty fair verdict in that State Farm improperly fired these 5 agents. Good for them who were treated unfairly. 2. I cannot feel sorry for any agents of the direct writers. They should take responsibility for the decision they make to become one. The risk is that the rug can be pulled out from under them at any time. The reward is great premium pricing which makes their sales process much easier.
Anybody following the insurance industry news recognizes the name Rich Pyorre, who along with another former State Farm serf named Weir, proved that the emporor has no clothes. Their case also proved that the golded rule really means he who has the gold makes the rules, ergo State Farm “convincing” a reasonable human being in the form of an appellate judge that the jury was “confused”, and overturned the original verdict paying off Pyorre and Weir. For those in the know, delete the name State Farm, and insert “Corleone Family”, and the results are the same. I too toiled for 11 years for a captive company that billed itself as a “family of insurance services”, and I too witnessed that “family of financial services” treat it’s agents much like the Corleone family treated it’s adversaries. If all captive agents went the independent route, guess which of those long time, time honored captive companies would come begging to be included in each independent’s portfolio of carriers, making offers we couldn’t refuse? Who wouldn’t want the “power and strength” of a good neighbor, or the ability to put their clients in good hands? In addition, I can’t wait for the first courageous agent to go to IRS and ask these giants to submit to the IRS field test of statutory employee vs. independent contractor. Can you say “class action?”
More reason for those who are Captive Agents to see that it is greener on the other side of the fence being an Independent Agent.
Even as independent agents’, we endure our share of problems with insurers, but at least we can choose to change directions and contract with multiple insurers for the betterment of our clients.
However, the largest benefit is simply we’re our own boss. We don’t have the Big Brother State Farm; Farmers or Allstate looking over our shoulder micro-managing how we do business.
You sound like a liberal. Such people have been losing both the debate and elected office for the past 11 years that all they can say is resort to is name calling and spelling insults.
Right out of college I worked for a SF agent for 3.5 years, so yes, my response could be considered bias. During those years, I saw SF handle and pay claims (home and auto) in a very fair and honest manner. In the event the insured questioned the payment, the agent would get involved and a fair agreement was made. SF took care of all their agents and expected their agents to look after the insureds.
When visiting the regional office for training classes it was obvious the employees and agents took a lot of pride in their culture. If these 5 agents had issues with the way SF was treating the insureds, they had a boss to discuss their concerns. They also had a means to work with the insureds to ensure they received a fair settlement.
I feel the agents have a right to voice their concerns but they should expect a reaction from their employees (action = reaction). How can SF trust these 5 to fully represent them as a great company if the agents are trashing them nationally. I feel this is an example of how SF is used as an example due to their size. It is pathetic they got this settlement.
How long has it been since you worked at a State Farm Agents office? How can one represent a “great company” (your words) when that company is not acting like a “great company”, but rather lying and cheating. If you represented a company and found it was not being honest would you just keep it to yourself or make sure something was done about it? For example I have the documentation and can prove State Farm has committed perjury to the IRS. This avoids approximately $3 Billion of annual payroll for them. The real question is not could State Farm trust these agents, it is can State Farm be trusted? And my documentation says no! A jury saw it and decided the same thing!
Laura, take off those rose colored glasses! You should be the SF PR person-wow!
Johnny-Have you ever worked for SF, Farmers or Allstate? Pricing isn’t everything.
And last but not least, Sandy………
you hit the nail right on the head. The truth be told, most companies would be happy to get rid of their agents. They have been shaving commissions for years and would be happy cutting us out all together.
Direct writers threaten their agents constantly with production figures and “if you don’t produce such and such in life sales, we’re cutting your P&C commissions”. Yeah, that’s real incentive and security
I am a former State Farm Agent. Terminated. I hope my battle goes on a long time. I too believed that the consumer needs to know the most they can get. I found out that is not the way that business is done. That’s a shame. The company will say and do anything to get its own way. They will tell lies and they will twist the truth to fit what they want. I have proof of the lies and conveniently those who lie and get confronted about their lies get moved on and out of the picture. I will gladly talk with any other State Farm person who wants to defend their company or any other agent who thinks State Farm is a good company. State Farm needs to play fair. Don’t lie, cheat and distort the truth to make the shoe fit.
I also agree with the independent status claim. It is wrong and the IRS needs to review without the pressure of State Farm the validity of that status. Again, the shoe dosen’t fit.
Not only am I not affiliated with State Farm in any way, I am proud to be an independent agent and former Big I state president. I like to think that we are more professional than direct writers. Therefore, when I see six spelling errors in a short paragraph – in a public forum – it concerns me that the author might be an insurance agent!
On behalf of those of us that are part of the Agency side of all of our industry as to the Direct writers side I would like to apologize for one of our members who seems more intent on patting himself on the back as compared to trying to work hand in hand to insure fair treatment for ALL Agents from ALL insurance companies. I would guess that being a State President gives someone special privileges when it come to grammar and spelling, but in this case it sure does not add any CLASS.
In general, I have found that more SF and Allstate agent gripe about their companies than ind agents griping about their. Ind agent simply don’t submit apps to companies that don’t do right by them, and that’s that!
Always thinking of himself and how important he thinks he is to the world. None of it true of course. He’d make a great Farmers agent, because speeling and correcting folks is so important. Eh sweetie?
I have been in the insurance business 44 years as a Home Office Underwriter, Senior Field Claim Representative and State Farm Insurance Agent. I am mature enough to know a company the size of State Farm will have people in management positions they shouldn’t be in. With almost 18,000 agents, State Farm will always have middle management errors appointing some to agency who shouldn’t be agents. An overwhelming fact though is that North America has voted State Farm as the largest auto and home insurance company for almost sixty consecutive years. In the legal community an often used Latin phrase is “Res ipsa loquitur”. Translated the phrase means “The thing speaks for itself”. If more people keep insuring with State Farm than any other company, things can’t be too wrong at State Farm or if they are they can’t be wrong for long. By the way the class action lawsuit mentioned against State Farm for using “After Market Parts” was dismissed due to the plaintiffs never being able to prove State Farm used any inferior parts that were not replaced with quality parts. Bottom line, my career with State Farm has been a good one. I have never encountered a problem that could not be resolved fairly with agents or associates. I have happy policyholders in my agency and I have no regrets.
Of course they’ll run these poor fellows through the court system until the day they die. State Farm, Farmers and Allstate better take another hard look at their contracts.
Once again the jury got it right and told State Farm they had to have cause to terminate. Let’s see if State Farm will now be able to convince this judge that the jury “may have been confused”.
One other item that is mentioned in this article is the independent contractor status of the agent. State Farm claims them to be independent contractors,and that is what the contract says, but having mandatory meetings and required equipment provided by State Farm violates the independent status. State Farm has perjured itself to the IRS in regard to this and in so doing has avoided, since 1998, approximately $3 Billion of annual payroll from state and federal payroll taxes. In addition they also avoid workmen’s comp on this $3 Billion of payroll. Isn’t it time the IRS made State Farm Executive responsible for their perjury? I have the documentation and can provide it if any reporter would like to do this story and make the public aware of what is going on. Rich Pyorre, Fort Bragg, CA
It never suprises me that things that these State Farm people do. Remeber these are income producing people to the company just think how they treat claims people much less their policy holders. Another on by a corperate gaint trying to take advantage of one of their own. Go figure.
Mike, buy a dictionary or get spell check.
I worked for Farmers for 1 year. Hated it. Point is, the giant direct writers don’t give a rip about the agent that writes biz for them as long as they work, work, work and give, give, give all the live long day. They are too big for their britches and I’m glad someone called them on it. Cheers to the winners.
Ha, Jacky is that all you can do is make fun of someones spelling? You have too much time on your hands, You must be a State Farm agent.
Horrors! I’m glad I’m not a State Farm agent!
Cases filed by former American National Property & Casualty agents and MLGA’s are currently percolating through the Texas judicial system using a similar approach.
joe@joelongley.com
Way to go Jury ! But it is just a the tip of the iceberg as to what companies continue to do to “their” agents, regardless of the company.
Having been a direct writer for the first ten years of my career and now part of the Independent Agency system for the last 27 years, I know that if any insurance company could figure a way to do away with the agents they would do so without blinking an eye. All you have to do is look at Progressive on the casualty side and all the group carriers like Aetna, UHC and the rest and Allstate is on both sides of the street declaring their agents independent contractors , but telling them what, where and how they have to run their business
Insurance companies have always tried to find ways to hamper the client / agent relationship. The findings of this Jury will not stop that, but maybe it will make the companies think twice before taking similar action in the future.
Those who cannot stick to the issue and say something like “Mike, buy a dictionary or get spell check” admit to defeat on the spot. I bet Jack is affiliated with State Farm in someway and this defeat was a blow to him that he had to bring up an issue that is not an issue in these postings.
Come on folks. 1. This is a pretty fair verdict in that State Farm improperly fired these 5 agents. Good for them who were treated unfairly. 2. I cannot feel sorry for any agents of the direct writers. They should take responsibility for the decision they make to become one. The risk is that the rug can be pulled out from under them at any time. The reward is great premium pricing which makes their sales process much easier.
Mike, Buy a dictionary!
Anybody following the insurance industry news recognizes the name Rich Pyorre, who along with another former State Farm serf named Weir, proved that the emporor has no clothes. Their case also proved that the golded rule really means he who has the gold makes the rules, ergo State Farm “convincing” a reasonable human being in the form of an appellate judge that the jury was “confused”, and overturned the original verdict paying off Pyorre and Weir. For those in the know, delete the name State Farm, and insert “Corleone Family”, and the results are the same. I too toiled for 11 years for a captive company that billed itself as a “family of insurance services”, and I too witnessed that “family of financial services” treat it’s agents much like the Corleone family treated it’s adversaries. If all captive agents went the independent route, guess which of those long time, time honored captive companies would come begging to be included in each independent’s portfolio of carriers, making offers we couldn’t refuse? Who wouldn’t want the “power and strength” of a good neighbor, or the ability to put their clients in good hands? In addition, I can’t wait for the first courageous agent to go to IRS and ask these giants to submit to the IRS field test of statutory employee vs. independent contractor. Can you say “class action?”
More reason for those who are Captive Agents to see that it is greener on the other side of the fence being an Independent Agent.
Even as independent agents’, we endure our share of problems with insurers, but at least we can choose to change directions and contract with multiple insurers for the betterment of our clients.
However, the largest benefit is simply we’re our own boss. We don’t have the Big Brother State Farm; Farmers or Allstate looking over our shoulder micro-managing how we do business.
You sound like a liberal. Such people have been losing both the debate and elected office for the past 11 years that all they can say is resort to is name calling and spelling insults.
Right out of college I worked for a SF agent for 3.5 years, so yes, my response could be considered bias. During those years, I saw SF handle and pay claims (home and auto) in a very fair and honest manner. In the event the insured questioned the payment, the agent would get involved and a fair agreement was made. SF took care of all their agents and expected their agents to look after the insureds.
When visiting the regional office for training classes it was obvious the employees and agents took a lot of pride in their culture. If these 5 agents had issues with the way SF was treating the insureds, they had a boss to discuss their concerns. They also had a means to work with the insureds to ensure they received a fair settlement.
I feel the agents have a right to voice their concerns but they should expect a reaction from their employees (action = reaction). How can SF trust these 5 to fully represent them as a great company if the agents are trashing them nationally. I feel this is an example of how SF is used as an example due to their size. It is pathetic they got this settlement.
How long has it been since you worked at a State Farm Agents office? How can one represent a “great company” (your words) when that company is not acting like a “great company”, but rather lying and cheating. If you represented a company and found it was not being honest would you just keep it to yourself or make sure something was done about it? For example I have the documentation and can prove State Farm has committed perjury to the IRS. This avoids approximately $3 Billion of annual payroll for them. The real question is not could State Farm trust these agents, it is can State Farm be trusted? And my documentation says no! A jury saw it and decided the same thing!
Laura, take off those rose colored glasses! You should be the SF PR person-wow!
Johnny-Have you ever worked for SF, Farmers or Allstate? Pricing isn’t everything.
And last but not least, Sandy………
you hit the nail right on the head. The truth be told, most companies would be happy to get rid of their agents. They have been shaving commissions for years and would be happy cutting us out all together.
Direct writers threaten their agents constantly with production figures and “if you don’t produce such and such in life sales, we’re cutting your P&C commissions”. Yeah, that’s real incentive and security
I am a former State Farm Agent. Terminated. I hope my battle goes on a long time. I too believed that the consumer needs to know the most they can get. I found out that is not the way that business is done. That’s a shame. The company will say and do anything to get its own way. They will tell lies and they will twist the truth to fit what they want. I have proof of the lies and conveniently those who lie and get confronted about their lies get moved on and out of the picture. I will gladly talk with any other State Farm person who wants to defend their company or any other agent who thinks State Farm is a good company. State Farm needs to play fair. Don’t lie, cheat and distort the truth to make the shoe fit.
I also agree with the independent status claim. It is wrong and the IRS needs to review without the pressure of State Farm the validity of that status. Again, the shoe dosen’t fit.
Not only am I not affiliated with State Farm in any way, I am proud to be an independent agent and former Big I state president. I like to think that we are more professional than direct writers. Therefore, when I see six spelling errors in a short paragraph – in a public forum – it concerns me that the author might be an insurance agent!
On behalf of those of us that are part of the Agency side of all of our industry as to the Direct writers side I would like to apologize for one of our members who seems more intent on patting himself on the back as compared to trying to work hand in hand to insure fair treatment for ALL Agents from ALL insurance companies. I would guess that being a State President gives someone special privileges when it come to grammar and spelling, but in this case it sure does not add any CLASS.
Touche’ Sandy!
Most high mucky mucks don’t do much but look at P&L’s, read magazines, plan vacations etc. I don’t really pay much attention to what they have to say.
In general, I have found that more SF and Allstate agent gripe about their companies than ind agents griping about their. Ind agent simply don’t submit apps to companies that don’t do right by them, and that’s that!
Always thinking of himself and how important he thinks he is to the world. None of it true of course. He’d make a great Farmers agent, because speeling and correcting folks is so important. Eh sweetie?
Laura: Kiss my grits! Snerdly
ANPAC agents are currently banning together in an effort to put an end to the hitler like regeime of their current management.
ex profiled, no new business, terminated agent
Would like to discuss your termination. I have been terminated also.
I would like to correspond with the ANPAC agent terminated in TX
I have been in the insurance business 44 years as a Home Office Underwriter, Senior Field Claim Representative and State Farm Insurance Agent. I am mature enough to know a company the size of State Farm will have people in management positions they shouldn’t be in. With almost 18,000 agents, State Farm will always have middle management errors appointing some to agency who shouldn’t be agents. An overwhelming fact though is that North America has voted State Farm as the largest auto and home insurance company for almost sixty consecutive years. In the legal community an often used Latin phrase is “Res ipsa loquitur”. Translated the phrase means “The thing speaks for itself”. If more people keep insuring with State Farm than any other company, things can’t be too wrong at State Farm or if they are they can’t be wrong for long. By the way the class action lawsuit mentioned against State Farm for using “After Market Parts” was dismissed due to the plaintiffs never being able to prove State Farm used any inferior parts that were not replaced with quality parts. Bottom line, my career with State Farm has been a good one. I have never encountered a problem that could not be resolved fairly with agents or associates. I have happy policyholders in my agency and I have no regrets.