I am not sure why these men are not tried in courts and if convicted, subject to the laws of the land in which they are convicted. It has NO bearing that they are catholic, or priests, or if they were smongarian. A crime is a crime and the cloak of religion does not shield from prosecution. If the incidents were covered up by higher ranking officials of the catholic church then this opens up the catholic church to conspiracy and illegal behaviour charges. And if convicted they should have to serve time and pay punitive damages, they should not be allowed to pay off or cut a deal before trial. If they are not punished the activities will continue. God will NOT look mercifully upon those that harm children. They MUST be punished NOW. If the current pope did try to hide any of this activity in any way, he does not deserve anything other than prosecution as a common man.
I am amazed at the rude comments that are thrown around. This should be a forum to exchange ideas & opinions. I don’t feel that calling people morons, idiots, ect,ect is a professional way to act. If you don’t have anything nice to say about someone, say nothing. I agree that the pope should not be exempt from procecution. If he engaged in covering up a crime, he should be brought to justice.
Agreed! As a life long Roman Catholic I expect the leaders of my church to admit their crimes and suffer the human punishment as we do. This long lived conspiracy is harming our faith as well as our church. Our children are the leaders of years to come and I think hiding behind a title is a deplorable act.
No doubt, sins have been committed within the Church by members of the clergy, with the horrible result that the Faith of Her members has been weakened. However, do not make the mistake of assuming immediate guilt for the hierarchy, as this only serves to weaken the Church further. Absolutely no proof was presented in this article that the Pope was/is guilty of the crimes mentioned, and yet, there is a rush to say that he should be held accountable. If only Catholics were so motivated to hold themselves as equally accountable for their own sins…
The communication from the Congregation headed by Cardinal Ratzinger which Mr. Shea is using as a basis for his suit against the pope has absolutely nothing do do with any attempt at criminal concealment. It regards only internal church investigations which are subject to the law of secrecy in order to protect all involved. Persons involved in such investigations are perfectly free to speak to civil authorities in legal processes surrounding such cases. The secular and ecclesiastical are two totally different domains. Mr. Shea’s allegations miss this point entirely. As an attorney he should have looked into church law before undertaking such an absurdity. However, I suspect his purpose in this matter has nothing to do with the pursuit of justice.
If there is no guilt, no sin why stand behind the laws of secrecy? Why the need to protect all involved? Why no attention to the urgent need of God’s children?
I do not pretend to know the heart of all involved but I do know my heart and conscience. I would protect my faith and church and prove my innocence.
I guess they are trying to prove the old adage “It’s not what you know , but who you know” that makes the World go round” And what better person to go to with that in mind than old George W. All you have to do is look at is oil buddies and see that is a true statement
Obviosuly “The Light” & “John” have got some issues with the Pope seeking legal advise. In case you two have been asleep for the past couple of years, the Catholic Church has both acknowledged and accepted the sins of their past. In fact they have made strides in protecting Gods Children and implemented several new programs and safe guards to prevent those horrible acttions of being repeated.
They have also made restitution, not that making a paymnet erases the wrong deed, they complied with investigatins and supported the laws and turned over Priests for trial who are now in jail where they belong. The Pope, deserves some respect and lets us be patient during the time to see if the holy shepard is guilty of what you think he is guilty of – I bet he is innocent!
I have a better question. Why are dum-dums like you allowed to post such ridiculous comments, which basically say, “I may not know everything, but I’m very holy and very sincere and I love children and I don’t like the Pope, so I must have something worthwhile to say.”
This is a nightmare. The hierarchy in the catholic church think they are above the law and this article is confirming it. This is a heinous situation. These are not “holy” men.
As a victim of sexual abuse by 2 priests, I consider the Pope and the hierarchy guilty than, if not more than, the perps. The hierarchy and especially the pope have the power to do something about it and believe me, they’re not doing it. I’m one case and I know how I’ve been treated. They’re monsters – not “holy” people.
“The Light” has certainly got a grasp on yet another Church escapade. How much more must we hear in order to make any reasonable and prudent person accept the fact that our Church is corrupt.
The Pope is at fault for this because he has not stopped it. He is allowing all the secrecy to keep on going, doing nothing to stop the behavior of the bishops, cardinals, etc. He is enabling the whole mess because he is the head of this church who is doing NOTHING to stop it. AND… I did hire a lawyer (not sleazy) and I did win my lawsuit. I’m not greedy, just hurt and ruined. My life has been ruined, so has my faith, and my trust in people. If you were a victim of sexual abuse by this church, you would not be saying the things that you are. Look around and wake up!
Sexual abuse is sexual abuse, whether it is acted upon by a priest or laity. And yes I too was abused by an uncle more than 10 years ago. The current Pope is not allowing this to continue. What secret, the secret is out. It did happen, it was handled wrong and the church is cleaning up the issue. Many Priests are behind bars and many are facing trials today. Is this keeping a secret??? Part of our faith is to forgive, which is not easy but is the KEY to moving forward. Sounds as if you have not made the necessary step. By the way, why did you sue, what was your settlement, and what happened to the priest? Did the lawyer work for free or did he take 40%?
Your life is ruined! I thought the lawsuit would have solved the issue!! Guess not, but the money sure helps you doesn’t it? What state did this happen in?
Erin, try to find peace as best you can. Pray to the Almighty for strength as it is unlikely that you will ever receive any help from one wearing a collar. As for the Pope, he and the former Pope have been aware of the crimes against children for decades. The Church has systematically been secretive and for anyone to believe otherwise, are no different from an ostrich….amen
Thank you, John. You do understand the issues and I appreciate your words. As for the other two: you are dreamers and ostriches as well. The church is NOT cleaning up the issue. They are still covering up every day for these criminals, which I feel makes the hierarchy criminals, as well. John said it better than I can. As for my lawsuit, it wasn’t about money. It was to get them to acknowledge me and the facts of my situation. If money was all I wanted, then everything would be fine right now. It isn’t and I didn’t expect money to fix it. If you can say that, you don’t have a clue what we (victims and survivors) are going through. Do you really WANT to know? As for the details about my lawsuit, it is none of your busines.
Erin –
I am sorry that happened to you, however, why is the Pope at fault for this? The two priests who acted improperly are the ones at fault, not the current Pope! The Pope has condemed this behavior, taken steps to make sure it should not happen again and more importantly, this Pope is not the reason you are a victim. If you believe you are not being treated fairly, hire a lawyer b/c there is always a sleezy lawer who would love to try and break down the Catholics in this world all for the almighty dollar! (Greed). Not all Priests are bad just as this problem is not isolated to Catholic Priests. The entire population needs to work on abuse!
Daily prayer to God will help but you must not dwell on these evil men of the so called cloth. It amazes me when some “devout Catholics” will condemn such institutions such as Enron and Worldcom but give a pass to the largest soul corporation for spending over one billion dollars and counting. My deceased uncle, immigrant from Europe, DEVOUT CATHOLIC, WW1 Veteran, often referred to the clergy as “well fed idle men”. As much as things change how often they remain the same
Washington, DC, you do not even have a clue. It’s seems obvious to me that you are incapable of empathy for anybody who thinks differently than you do. If what happened to John’s relative is something that would not shock you or cause you to at least question what is happening in your church, then I question how deeply you are even CAPABLE of caring. In all my years and years of “catholic upbringing”, I learned that caring about others besides myself was a very important virtue. Put yourself in his relative’s shoes, REALLY, and think for a minute how that could affect any rational person.
Lawsuits become part of the public domain, and if you accuse someone of an impropriety in any industry, your accusations need to be filed with the appropriate entity.
I do not hold the church infallible, and I am Catholic. But they have made strides in disclosure and trying their priests.
Erin –
The Church IS cleaning up the issues. What concrete evidence do you have of a cover up? I’ll bet you your entire settlement you have no proof as you are not involved in other claims of abuse. The church is working on the issue with many new programs and educating parish personnel. Find forgiveness in your heart.
I have read this e-mail train and even provided my thoughts in a previous comment. I wondered how long it would be before someone would blame the victims for all the problems in the Catholic Church. “Devout Catholic’s” comments are the same as the “Church” has continually spouted for decades as they don’t want the “buck to stop here” as it is easier to blame the other guy.
Let all these issues be settled in Court between the victims and the “Church” and let the chips fall where they may and don’t “bow” down to the request of the “Pope”.
Just think, if the “Pope” were to be part of the law suit(s) maybe getting the information released from the “Church” so all these “Perverts” would be a lot easier
Who blamed the victims in any e-mail? I believe someone merley pointed out that contrary to Erins belief that the Pope is involved in a cover up is nothing more than her opinion.
As far as letting the Pope being named in the lawsuit, the head of any corporation or organization, always is inlcuded by name as is the most sr. person or executive. When AIG is sued, Greenberg was always named, and Art Ryan with prudential. Get Real with Legal 101.
Why do you believe Erin has a right to say the Church is invloved in a cover up and others are not allowed to defend the church for making steps to attemtp to cure sins of the past. No one said what happened to Erin was right and in fact it is terrible and wrong! But, how long will condemnation occur? By the way, Jesus would forgive.
“Devout Catholic” blamed her did when he / she posted the response at 10:07 am this morning, 08-22-05 stating “You are correct and Erin is the one covering up by not answering the questions. Does she have something to hide?”
From my vantage point you must be on the “Catholic Church” payroll to have all the “insider” information. Remember the old saying ” he who protests to much……” Besides what harm would it be to have the “Pope” named in the case, if he or the “Church” have nothing to hide at this time and date, why would he ask for immunity? Do you think it is a money thing ? Bet your bottom dollar on that one “big boy”. After all who owns the “Church” property in the United States ? What entity has the most to lose monetarily ? You may want to check with the Boston Diocese for some guidance.
As for your comment “Jesus would forgive” this is true, but when did you or the “Pope” become Jesus ? What gives you or the “Pope” the right to judge if you are not ready to be judged ? We are mere mortals trying to get along the best way we can and when your Faith is crushed by those who you have been taught from your childhood to trust and then the “Church” covers it up what is to forgive , let alone forget.
If this were an isolated issue and was a current occurrence it would be one thing. However this has been going on for decades if not centuries, so there is no defense for what the “Church” has covered up no matter what you or anyone else tries to condone or defend.
DC is a dog with a bone,and doesn’t want to let go. It was the Catholic Church’s initial greed in not allowing their priests to marry, this way their resources would be returned to the Catholic Church, instead of their surviving spouse. This created a perverse sespool ripe to receive those that had no interest in a marital relationship. The church has been covering the subsequent abuse for centuries! The latest Pope was right in step with rest.
None of us know if the pope has any involvement or guilt in this or not. The simple answer is that if he has nothing to hide the best thing he could do for his faith would be to answer the plaintiff’s questions. Yes plaintiff’s lawyers will probably try to trip him up because they are, at least in part, after money (maybe money alone, maybe money and justice-depends on the lawyer.) However, he’s got lawyers too and nobody’s denying him those. How great would it look for the church if the pope himself stepped up to the plate, explained the practices and procedures and clearly demonstrated his lack of guilt? Probably would go a long way to clearing up the atmosphere of distrust and prove the church is continuing in the right direction. By the way would the leader of any other church be afforded this protection? Nope.
Ruff Ruff dog with a bone. How do you draw the conclusion that greed was the reason for priests not to marry. Sounds like you have reading the divince code instead of the bible! Priests are not married b/c they are suppose to give themselves 100% to God. The catholic church along with Baptists, Jews, Lutherans, etc. all have sex abuse cases. It is the thought that Catholics are the worst is BS. Last word!
Since when dos the ceo of a major organization or church speak to the practices of events that have taken place before he/she was CEO? It is impractical to assume the Pontiff knows all that goes on within the Church worldwide. Wake up. However, your point is worth while and the church should provide someone to answer the questions with knowledge of what happened.
Although I seriously doubt this will be the last Post of “DC”, is does give one hope. However, it makes you wonder why “DC” did not chose to respond to my previous post.
In answer to your statement about “Baptists, Jews, Lutherans, etc” this is true, however they have not asked for immunity from our court system. What then gives the “Pope” or the “Church” special privileges?
You ask, “What gives the pope special…”, the law as indicated in the article:
“In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Gerry Keener, said that the pope already is considered a head of state and automatically has diplomatic immunity”.
And I responded b/c you needed a comprehension lesson on the article you read.
I believe greed was the motivation for not marrying, priests used to marry. It is suggested that you don’t marry if you can’t handle a wife and your church responsiblities, but now it looks like they shaved a little off that 100% after all. The Catholic Church has maintained a contientious, organized and pervasive cover-up from the top down -that’s what makes the Catholics the worst.
To those of you who showed kindness and compassion, thank you; it’s very much appreciated. To those of you who still think that the church is the victim, all I can say is “be careful”. Your children could be at risk right now and/or any vulnerable adults that you may know. What Lisa says about the cover-up is so true. It took me a very long time to realize that I had been hurt by this church, not just by the 2 priests. I loved the church for a very long time and was a “devout catholic”, too, but when it finally dawned on me that there was going to be absolutely zero protection or assistance, even pastoral, I had to face reality. I was shocked to realize that I was the person to be avoided and “punished”, not the predators who perpetrated these crimes. Has the scandal not educated those of you who still feel the pope, bishops, etc., are the victims??? If you believe this crisis of secrecy and cover-up is over, check out this website DAILY: http://www.snapnetwork.org
I have a relative who interned at a law firm that represented the Archidiocese of New York. His job was to research the number of times a priest abused a victim. A dollar amount was set for each incident and they just multiplied this amount by the number of times. He is now an attorney who no longer practices his religion due to this and other experiences, which is sad. He worked there in the early 70’s. So many of us knew but never imagined how prevalent. Again, for anyone to believe that the “leaders” were not aware of the extent of these crimes is utterly ridiculous. But then again, A person convinced against their will is just of the same opinion still…..sad
I find it sad this topic has brought professional people to name-calling. You cannot dam an entire group of people because of the acts of some… I have not heard anyone dam the Boy Scouts of America and the cover-ups in that organization have yet to be reveled…. Head of State or not, any person with knowledge about these crimes MUST be held accountable. And because I believe this cover up will continue my Church will suffer. How much more than post comments has anyone speaking here done? Have you donated your time or is it to valuable? While good decent people sit back and quietly complain as we have been doing in the US for some time now. Evil takes over…If you really want to do something about these horrible acts against children then donate yourself and your time, give to these children what they need, mentors.
John – You too are lost. To think your relative is no longer a Catholic b/c of his experience in New York many years ago is nothing more than an excuse. I guess all of the years of a Catholic up bringing, I assume some catholic schooling, was washed away by an internship. Lets pray for your realtive so that he/she finds their faith and religion again.
Why do you allow yourself to accept excuses for people leaving the Church? The real answer is, if one apple is bad, the whole barel is not. Why are people blaming God? I truely am concerned for those who leave b/c of some mistakes by a few. Erin, you are right, voices are needed to improve the situation, but not at the expense of condeming the whole church. Peace Out!
“The mistakes by a few” isn’t the issue. A whole lot of priests have molested a whole lot of people. That shouldn’t even be happening to ONE person. Did you read anything about the John Jay report?? There still are very good priests around. But how would I know who is a safe one?The hierarchy has moved these guys around, kept secret their histories of pedophilia, and put them in different parishes where they then have a whole new parish of potential victims. Many bishops, cardinals, the pope, etc., have not taken any responsibility for protecting their parishes or dioceses or answering for THEIR crimes of enabling and cover-up. Some of the hierarchy have done so and they are to be congratulated. But in these circumstances, how do I tell the good priests from the bad priests? PLUS, has it ever occurred to you that making the decision to leave a church that you previously loved is a very painful and wrenching experience? It is. It seems that you’re so into dogma, that you’re not even doing any thinking of your own. It is a huge hurt when you realize that your church isn’t at all what you thought it was. These are criminal activities that have and, in some cases still are, being covered up. They’re life-altering situations for its victims. I, for one, don’t feel safe in a church anymore. For me, that’s very sad. Will you just think about the fact that some people who leave feel totally betrayed by their church and that it was probably one of the hardest decisions that they’ve ever had to make? Also, blaming the church is not the same as blaming God. God is everywhere and just because some of us are not sitting in a pew any more doesn’t mean that we love Him any less.
My comment to all of you is, keep talking. This is indeed a rather “nasty” situation but, how does it relate to “INSURANCE’ This is a moral issue that must be settled between ourselves and our spiritual belief.
To berate another human being for being open does not facilitate “open minds”. As Professional Insurance Agents, our obligation is to be ethical in all of our financial activities and to provide the best coverage for our clients. It is not my place to play Judge and Jury no matter how much I want to.
Just to set the record straight for those that want to attack…I’m not a former Catholic, I am a Christian. What has happened in the Catholic church is sad because it has separated people from their faith. And yes, God and church are different. It hasn’t seperated God from them, however. That is something to remember.
Rosalee – You do not feel safe in Church anymore???? Ride the subway, that is not feeling safe. Be real, no improper activity takes place during church with hundreds of people present. Abuse happens when people are alone or in isolated areas and not just from those in Church. It happens everywhere b/c this society has many sick people that need prayers.
I should make my Bible comment on this.
In Romans 2:11 – “For there is no respect
of persons with God.” and also, in
Colossians 3:25 – “But he that doeth wrong
shall receive for the wrong which he hath
done: and there is no respect of persons.”
DC, everybody’s fears are different. I haven’t been molested on a subway but I have in church. When I say that I’m afraid in Church, part of the fear is that it brings back to my mind everything that has happened to me. I have fear in Church, you have fear on the subway…. I accept that you have fear on the subway..please accept that I have fear in church…period. BTW, I’m Rosalee, too.
Unfortunately, you found out the hardest way what is wrong with our Church today. Your suffering is incomprehensible. The Catholic Church has made horrible mistakes in the past century, which I believe have culminated in this scandal. No doubt, you were the victim of evil men. We must remember that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, we are part of that Body, members united in spirit with Christ. One act against another member affects the entire Body, just as a physical Body. As a fellow member of the Body of Christ, I pray that you may be healed of your scars, and that these priests will repent of their sin before they die. This scandal has caused many a Catholic to loses their Faith, but I urge you not to lose hope in the Church. Christ said He would be with us at all time, so we can always turn to Him for consolation. Pray that the Church will be saved from Her errors and will return to Her former splendor.
It’s no secret that the Catholic Church has covered and continues to cover up abuse. Pope Benedict is the leader of the church. If he is covering up abuse for his fellow peers, how can the flock be lead to the truth? As a Catholic, I am concerned that the church is being weaked by lies and secrets. Sex abuse is a crime and covering up that crime is a crime as well. I pray that our leaders do what is right, not only by man’s laws, but by God’s laws.
This is much deeper then mans law, and i would not like to be in the popes shoes come judgement day, what possible reason would he give for not doing everything in his power (and he has a lot of that)to testify, to do,and provide all he can to put an end to this ongoing abomination in the catholic churches,(much like the police officer that breaks the law to inforce it), he must know the message he is sending to the catholic community and the cathlics that simply accept it as the popes wishes so it must be right, WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE, if not for the damages it has done and continues to do to the people(GODS PEOPLE no less)it would almost be a joke,
who can put an end to this????
stand up CATHOLICS the pope isnt GOD he should be made to answer!!!
the sad part of this is that any of you that arnt doing anything are as guilty as the perp and the ones that are defending and covering up for him!!!
HOW WILL YOU FEEL WHEN ITS YOUR CHILD OR GRAND CHILD
I am not sure why these men are not tried in courts and if convicted, subject to the laws of the land in which they are convicted. It has NO bearing that they are catholic, or priests, or if they were smongarian. A crime is a crime and the cloak of religion does not shield from prosecution. If the incidents were covered up by higher ranking officials of the catholic church then this opens up the catholic church to conspiracy and illegal behaviour charges. And if convicted they should have to serve time and pay punitive damages, they should not be allowed to pay off or cut a deal before trial. If they are not punished the activities will continue. God will NOT look mercifully upon those that harm children. They MUST be punished NOW. If the current pope did try to hide any of this activity in any way, he does not deserve anything other than prosecution as a common man.
You imbecile, post again when you get off your high horse and read a law book. You’re pre-judgement is blinding your reason.
I am amazed at the rude comments that are thrown around. This should be a forum to exchange ideas & opinions. I don’t feel that calling people morons, idiots, ect,ect is a professional way to act. If you don’t have anything nice to say about someone, say nothing. I agree that the pope should not be exempt from procecution. If he engaged in covering up a crime, he should be brought to justice.
Agreed! As a life long Roman Catholic I expect the leaders of my church to admit their crimes and suffer the human punishment as we do. This long lived conspiracy is harming our faith as well as our church. Our children are the leaders of years to come and I think hiding behind a title is a deplorable act.
No doubt, sins have been committed within the Church by members of the clergy, with the horrible result that the Faith of Her members has been weakened. However, do not make the mistake of assuming immediate guilt for the hierarchy, as this only serves to weaken the Church further. Absolutely no proof was presented in this article that the Pope was/is guilty of the crimes mentioned, and yet, there is a rush to say that he should be held accountable. If only Catholics were so motivated to hold themselves as equally accountable for their own sins…
The communication from the Congregation headed by Cardinal Ratzinger which Mr. Shea is using as a basis for his suit against the pope has absolutely nothing do do with any attempt at criminal concealment. It regards only internal church investigations which are subject to the law of secrecy in order to protect all involved. Persons involved in such investigations are perfectly free to speak to civil authorities in legal processes surrounding such cases. The secular and ecclesiastical are two totally different domains. Mr. Shea’s allegations miss this point entirely. As an attorney he should have looked into church law before undertaking such an absurdity. However, I suspect his purpose in this matter has nothing to do with the pursuit of justice.
If there is no guilt, no sin why stand behind the laws of secrecy? Why the need to protect all involved? Why no attention to the urgent need of God’s children?
I do not pretend to know the heart of all involved but I do know my heart and conscience. I would protect my faith and church and prove my innocence.
I guess they are trying to prove the old adage “It’s not what you know , but who you know” that makes the World go round” And what better person to go to with that in mind than old George W. All you have to do is look at is oil buddies and see that is a true statement
Obviosuly “The Light” & “John” have got some issues with the Pope seeking legal advise. In case you two have been asleep for the past couple of years, the Catholic Church has both acknowledged and accepted the sins of their past. In fact they have made strides in protecting Gods Children and implemented several new programs and safe guards to prevent those horrible acttions of being repeated.
They have also made restitution, not that making a paymnet erases the wrong deed, they complied with investigatins and supported the laws and turned over Priests for trial who are now in jail where they belong. The Pope, deserves some respect and lets us be patient during the time to see if the holy shepard is guilty of what you think he is guilty of – I bet he is innocent!
I have a better question. Why are dum-dums like you allowed to post such ridiculous comments, which basically say, “I may not know everything, but I’m very holy and very sincere and I love children and I don’t like the Pope, so I must have something worthwhile to say.”
Review the facts before shooting your mouth off.
This is a nightmare. The hierarchy in the catholic church think they are above the law and this article is confirming it. This is a heinous situation. These are not “holy” men.
As a victim of sexual abuse by 2 priests, I consider the Pope and the hierarchy guilty than, if not more than, the perps. The hierarchy and especially the pope have the power to do something about it and believe me, they’re not doing it. I’m one case and I know how I’ve been treated. They’re monsters – not “holy” people.
“The Light” has certainly got a grasp on yet another Church escapade. How much more must we hear in order to make any reasonable and prudent person accept the fact that our Church is corrupt.
The Pope is at fault for this because he has not stopped it. He is allowing all the secrecy to keep on going, doing nothing to stop the behavior of the bishops, cardinals, etc. He is enabling the whole mess because he is the head of this church who is doing NOTHING to stop it. AND… I did hire a lawyer (not sleazy) and I did win my lawsuit. I’m not greedy, just hurt and ruined. My life has been ruined, so has my faith, and my trust in people. If you were a victim of sexual abuse by this church, you would not be saying the things that you are. Look around and wake up!
Sexual abuse is sexual abuse, whether it is acted upon by a priest or laity. And yes I too was abused by an uncle more than 10 years ago. The current Pope is not allowing this to continue. What secret, the secret is out. It did happen, it was handled wrong and the church is cleaning up the issue. Many Priests are behind bars and many are facing trials today. Is this keeping a secret??? Part of our faith is to forgive, which is not easy but is the KEY to moving forward. Sounds as if you have not made the necessary step. By the way, why did you sue, what was your settlement, and what happened to the priest? Did the lawyer work for free or did he take 40%?
Your life is ruined! I thought the lawsuit would have solved the issue!! Guess not, but the money sure helps you doesn’t it? What state did this happen in?
Erin, try to find peace as best you can. Pray to the Almighty for strength as it is unlikely that you will ever receive any help from one wearing a collar. As for the Pope, he and the former Pope have been aware of the crimes against children for decades. The Church has systematically been secretive and for anyone to believe otherwise, are no different from an ostrich….amen
Thank you, John. You do understand the issues and I appreciate your words. As for the other two: you are dreamers and ostriches as well. The church is NOT cleaning up the issue. They are still covering up every day for these criminals, which I feel makes the hierarchy criminals, as well. John said it better than I can. As for my lawsuit, it wasn’t about money. It was to get them to acknowledge me and the facts of my situation. If money was all I wanted, then everything would be fine right now. It isn’t and I didn’t expect money to fix it. If you can say that, you don’t have a clue what we (victims and survivors) are going through. Do you really WANT to know? As for the details about my lawsuit, it is none of your busines.
Erin –
I am sorry that happened to you, however, why is the Pope at fault for this? The two priests who acted improperly are the ones at fault, not the current Pope! The Pope has condemed this behavior, taken steps to make sure it should not happen again and more importantly, this Pope is not the reason you are a victim. If you believe you are not being treated fairly, hire a lawyer b/c there is always a sleezy lawer who would love to try and break down the Catholics in this world all for the almighty dollar! (Greed). Not all Priests are bad just as this problem is not isolated to Catholic Priests. The entire population needs to work on abuse!
Daily prayer to God will help but you must not dwell on these evil men of the so called cloth. It amazes me when some “devout Catholics” will condemn such institutions such as Enron and Worldcom but give a pass to the largest soul corporation for spending over one billion dollars and counting. My deceased uncle, immigrant from Europe, DEVOUT CATHOLIC, WW1 Veteran, often referred to the clergy as “well fed idle men”. As much as things change how often they remain the same
Washington, DC, you do not even have a clue. It’s seems obvious to me that you are incapable of empathy for anybody who thinks differently than you do. If what happened to John’s relative is something that would not shock you or cause you to at least question what is happening in your church, then I question how deeply you are even CAPABLE of caring. In all my years and years of “catholic upbringing”, I learned that caring about others besides myself was a very important virtue. Put yourself in his relative’s shoes, REALLY, and think for a minute how that could affect any rational person.
Erin,
Lawsuits become part of the public domain, and if you accuse someone of an impropriety in any industry, your accusations need to be filed with the appropriate entity.
I do not hold the church infallible, and I am Catholic. But they have made strides in disclosure and trying their priests.
Erin –
The Church IS cleaning up the issues. What concrete evidence do you have of a cover up? I’ll bet you your entire settlement you have no proof as you are not involved in other claims of abuse. The church is working on the issue with many new programs and educating parish personnel. Find forgiveness in your heart.
Arthur – You are correct and Erin is the one covering up by not answering the questins. Does she have something to hide?
I have read this e-mail train and even provided my thoughts in a previous comment. I wondered how long it would be before someone would blame the victims for all the problems in the Catholic Church. “Devout Catholic’s” comments are the same as the “Church” has continually spouted for decades as they don’t want the “buck to stop here” as it is easier to blame the other guy.
Let all these issues be settled in Court between the victims and the “Church” and let the chips fall where they may and don’t “bow” down to the request of the “Pope”.
Just think, if the “Pope” were to be part of the law suit(s) maybe getting the information released from the “Church” so all these “Perverts” would be a lot easier
Wow, all of these comments from “Devout” Christians look very un-Chrsitian to me. “What Would Jesus Do?
As for “Get Real”…do you work for free? If not, you must be sleazy too.
As for Erin…please leave him/her alone. Really, you must have something better to do then berate someone who has been hurt so.
Who blamed the victims in any e-mail? I believe someone merley pointed out that contrary to Erins belief that the Pope is involved in a cover up is nothing more than her opinion.
As far as letting the Pope being named in the lawsuit, the head of any corporation or organization, always is inlcuded by name as is the most sr. person or executive. When AIG is sued, Greenberg was always named, and Art Ryan with prudential. Get Real with Legal 101.
Why do you believe Erin has a right to say the Church is invloved in a cover up and others are not allowed to defend the church for making steps to attemtp to cure sins of the past. No one said what happened to Erin was right and in fact it is terrible and wrong! But, how long will condemnation occur? By the way, Jesus would forgive.
“Devout Catholic” blamed her did when he / she posted the response at 10:07 am this morning, 08-22-05 stating “You are correct and Erin is the one covering up by not answering the questions. Does she have something to hide?”
From my vantage point you must be on the “Catholic Church” payroll to have all the “insider” information. Remember the old saying ” he who protests to much……” Besides what harm would it be to have the “Pope” named in the case, if he or the “Church” have nothing to hide at this time and date, why would he ask for immunity? Do you think it is a money thing ? Bet your bottom dollar on that one “big boy”. After all who owns the “Church” property in the United States ? What entity has the most to lose monetarily ? You may want to check with the Boston Diocese for some guidance.
As for your comment “Jesus would forgive” this is true, but when did you or the “Pope” become Jesus ? What gives you or the “Pope” the right to judge if you are not ready to be judged ? We are mere mortals trying to get along the best way we can and when your Faith is crushed by those who you have been taught from your childhood to trust and then the “Church” covers it up what is to forgive , let alone forget.
If this were an isolated issue and was a current occurrence it would be one thing. However this has been going on for decades if not centuries, so there is no defense for what the “Church” has covered up no matter what you or anyone else tries to condone or defend.
DC is a dog with a bone,and doesn’t want to let go. It was the Catholic Church’s initial greed in not allowing their priests to marry, this way their resources would be returned to the Catholic Church, instead of their surviving spouse. This created a perverse sespool ripe to receive those that had no interest in a marital relationship. The church has been covering the subsequent abuse for centuries! The latest Pope was right in step with rest.
None of us know if the pope has any involvement or guilt in this or not. The simple answer is that if he has nothing to hide the best thing he could do for his faith would be to answer the plaintiff’s questions. Yes plaintiff’s lawyers will probably try to trip him up because they are, at least in part, after money (maybe money alone, maybe money and justice-depends on the lawyer.) However, he’s got lawyers too and nobody’s denying him those. How great would it look for the church if the pope himself stepped up to the plate, explained the practices and procedures and clearly demonstrated his lack of guilt? Probably would go a long way to clearing up the atmosphere of distrust and prove the church is continuing in the right direction. By the way would the leader of any other church be afforded this protection? Nope.
Ruff Ruff dog with a bone. How do you draw the conclusion that greed was the reason for priests not to marry. Sounds like you have reading the divince code instead of the bible! Priests are not married b/c they are suppose to give themselves 100% to God. The catholic church along with Baptists, Jews, Lutherans, etc. all have sex abuse cases. It is the thought that Catholics are the worst is BS. Last word!
Since when dos the ceo of a major organization or church speak to the practices of events that have taken place before he/she was CEO? It is impractical to assume the Pontiff knows all that goes on within the Church worldwide. Wake up. However, your point is worth while and the church should provide someone to answer the questions with knowledge of what happened.
Although I seriously doubt this will be the last Post of “DC”, is does give one hope. However, it makes you wonder why “DC” did not chose to respond to my previous post.
In answer to your statement about “Baptists, Jews, Lutherans, etc” this is true, however they have not asked for immunity from our court system. What then gives the “Pope” or the “Church” special privileges?
We never forget Jacques de Molay.
Yours, Knight Templar
You ask, “What gives the pope special…”, the law as indicated in the article:
“In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Gerry Keener, said that the pope already is considered a head of state and automatically has diplomatic immunity”.
And I responded b/c you needed a comprehension lesson on the article you read.
Come on Dad tell them the truth. You just don’t want to be prosecuted for your past acts.
I believe greed was the motivation for not marrying, priests used to marry. It is suggested that you don’t marry if you can’t handle a wife and your church responsiblities, but now it looks like they shaved a little off that 100% after all. The Catholic Church has maintained a contientious, organized and pervasive cover-up from the top down -that’s what makes the Catholics the worst.
To those of you who showed kindness and compassion, thank you; it’s very much appreciated. To those of you who still think that the church is the victim, all I can say is “be careful”. Your children could be at risk right now and/or any vulnerable adults that you may know. What Lisa says about the cover-up is so true. It took me a very long time to realize that I had been hurt by this church, not just by the 2 priests. I loved the church for a very long time and was a “devout catholic”, too, but when it finally dawned on me that there was going to be absolutely zero protection or assistance, even pastoral, I had to face reality. I was shocked to realize that I was the person to be avoided and “punished”, not the predators who perpetrated these crimes. Has the scandal not educated those of you who still feel the pope, bishops, etc., are the victims??? If you believe this crisis of secrecy and cover-up is over, check out this website DAILY: http://www.snapnetwork.org
I have a relative who interned at a law firm that represented the Archidiocese of New York. His job was to research the number of times a priest abused a victim. A dollar amount was set for each incident and they just multiplied this amount by the number of times. He is now an attorney who no longer practices his religion due to this and other experiences, which is sad. He worked there in the early 70’s. So many of us knew but never imagined how prevalent. Again, for anyone to believe that the “leaders” were not aware of the extent of these crimes is utterly ridiculous. But then again, A person convinced against their will is just of the same opinion still…..sad
I find it sad this topic has brought professional people to name-calling. You cannot dam an entire group of people because of the acts of some… I have not heard anyone dam the Boy Scouts of America and the cover-ups in that organization have yet to be reveled…. Head of State or not, any person with knowledge about these crimes MUST be held accountable. And because I believe this cover up will continue my Church will suffer. How much more than post comments has anyone speaking here done? Have you donated your time or is it to valuable? While good decent people sit back and quietly complain as we have been doing in the US for some time now. Evil takes over…If you really want to do something about these horrible acts against children then donate yourself and your time, give to these children what they need, mentors.
Lisa – you are lost! I bet you are a former catholic.
John – You too are lost. To think your relative is no longer a Catholic b/c of his experience in New York many years ago is nothing more than an excuse. I guess all of the years of a Catholic up bringing, I assume some catholic schooling, was washed away by an internship. Lets pray for your realtive so that he/she finds their faith and religion again.
Thank you for your wisdom, Father.
Why do you allow yourself to accept excuses for people leaving the Church? The real answer is, if one apple is bad, the whole barel is not. Why are people blaming God? I truely am concerned for those who leave b/c of some mistakes by a few. Erin, you are right, voices are needed to improve the situation, but not at the expense of condeming the whole church. Peace Out!
“The mistakes by a few” isn’t the issue. A whole lot of priests have molested a whole lot of people. That shouldn’t even be happening to ONE person. Did you read anything about the John Jay report?? There still are very good priests around. But how would I know who is a safe one?The hierarchy has moved these guys around, kept secret their histories of pedophilia, and put them in different parishes where they then have a whole new parish of potential victims. Many bishops, cardinals, the pope, etc., have not taken any responsibility for protecting their parishes or dioceses or answering for THEIR crimes of enabling and cover-up. Some of the hierarchy have done so and they are to be congratulated. But in these circumstances, how do I tell the good priests from the bad priests? PLUS, has it ever occurred to you that making the decision to leave a church that you previously loved is a very painful and wrenching experience? It is. It seems that you’re so into dogma, that you’re not even doing any thinking of your own. It is a huge hurt when you realize that your church isn’t at all what you thought it was. These are criminal activities that have and, in some cases still are, being covered up. They’re life-altering situations for its victims. I, for one, don’t feel safe in a church anymore. For me, that’s very sad. Will you just think about the fact that some people who leave feel totally betrayed by their church and that it was probably one of the hardest decisions that they’ve ever had to make? Also, blaming the church is not the same as blaming God. God is everywhere and just because some of us are not sitting in a pew any more doesn’t mean that we love Him any less.
My comment to all of you is, keep talking. This is indeed a rather “nasty” situation but, how does it relate to “INSURANCE’ This is a moral issue that must be settled between ourselves and our spiritual belief.
To berate another human being for being open does not facilitate “open minds”. As Professional Insurance Agents, our obligation is to be ethical in all of our financial activities and to provide the best coverage for our clients. It is not my place to play Judge and Jury no matter how much I want to.
Just to set the record straight for those that want to attack…I’m not a former Catholic, I am a Christian. What has happened in the Catholic church is sad because it has separated people from their faith. And yes, God and church are different. It hasn’t seperated God from them, however. That is something to remember.
Rosalee – You do not feel safe in Church anymore???? Ride the subway, that is not feeling safe. Be real, no improper activity takes place during church with hundreds of people present. Abuse happens when people are alone or in isolated areas and not just from those in Church. It happens everywhere b/c this society has many sick people that need prayers.
I should make my Bible comment on this.
In Romans 2:11 – “For there is no respect
of persons with God.” and also, in
Colossians 3:25 – “But he that doeth wrong
shall receive for the wrong which he hath
done: and there is no respect of persons.”
DC, everybody’s fears are different. I haven’t been molested on a subway but I have in church. When I say that I’m afraid in Church, part of the fear is that it brings back to my mind everything that has happened to me. I have fear in Church, you have fear on the subway…. I accept that you have fear on the subway..please accept that I have fear in church…period. BTW, I’m Rosalee, too.
Erin,
Unfortunately, you found out the hardest way what is wrong with our Church today. Your suffering is incomprehensible. The Catholic Church has made horrible mistakes in the past century, which I believe have culminated in this scandal. No doubt, you were the victim of evil men. We must remember that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, we are part of that Body, members united in spirit with Christ. One act against another member affects the entire Body, just as a physical Body. As a fellow member of the Body of Christ, I pray that you may be healed of your scars, and that these priests will repent of their sin before they die. This scandal has caused many a Catholic to loses their Faith, but I urge you not to lose hope in the Church. Christ said He would be with us at all time, so we can always turn to Him for consolation. Pray that the Church will be saved from Her errors and will return to Her former splendor.
Thank you, Smongarian, I will remember your words.
It’s no secret that the Catholic Church has covered and continues to cover up abuse. Pope Benedict is the leader of the church. If he is covering up abuse for his fellow peers, how can the flock be lead to the truth? As a Catholic, I am concerned that the church is being weaked by lies and secrets. Sex abuse is a crime and covering up that crime is a crime as well. I pray that our leaders do what is right, not only by man’s laws, but by God’s laws.
This is much deeper then mans law, and i would not like to be in the popes shoes come judgement day, what possible reason would he give for not doing everything in his power (and he has a lot of that)to testify, to do,and provide all he can to put an end to this ongoing abomination in the catholic churches,(much like the police officer that breaks the law to inforce it), he must know the message he is sending to the catholic community and the cathlics that simply accept it as the popes wishes so it must be right, WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE, if not for the damages it has done and continues to do to the people(GODS PEOPLE no less)it would almost be a joke,
who can put an end to this????
stand up CATHOLICS the pope isnt GOD he should be made to answer!!!
the sad part of this is that any of you that arnt doing anything are as guilty as the perp and the ones that are defending and covering up for him!!!
HOW WILL YOU FEEL WHEN ITS YOUR CHILD OR GRAND CHILD
GOD wont be granting imunity