I like the idea of distnguishing between those companies that are Super Regional because that is what they are and those who are Super Regional because they are part of a group of companies.
Please review the entire series of articles so that you can see how we catagorized strategic subsidiaries.
As soon as I saw how many they proposed were \”super regionals\” I questioned the findings.
Several of these are actually subs of a major national company: AIG is AIG, Mid Century and Truck Insurance Exchange are writing companies of Farmers, Travelers Casualty is Travelers, Hartford of IL is a Hartford company.
You might be able to cut this list in half if some research was done to see who the parents are.
you have addressed one of the concerns we had – specifically, we had to decide whether a subsidiary of a national or international company should be viewed as an independent entity or as a subsidiary within a group. We decided to view companies independently even if they were part of a larger group.
You raise an interesting thought and we would like to hear the opinion of other IJ subscribers.
Joe, I agree with Kevin that these subsidiaries only have a standing as \”super regionals\” because of their affiliation with, and support from, their large, national parent companies. The point of this \”super regional\” listing, at least how I viewed it, was to highlight \”regional\” companies that can compete with the Hartford, Travelers, and AIGs of the world. I thought the whole point was to showcase alternatives to the largest carriers,not include them.
When we did our research we were astounded at the small number of carriers that are actually national in scope versus those that are perceived to be national in scope. Had we not included in the Super Regionals those carriers that were part of a larger group, we would have increased the count of \’national carriers\’ by including a large number of companies that, in fact, were not national. Further, some of the Super Regionals that are part of a larger group were set up to compete with independent Super Regionals.
In sum, I think your point and Kevin\’s are well taken, we will re-think the situation based on all of the input. All we ask is that you follow the entire series of categories so that you will better understand the fundamental dilemma of assigning carriers.
I will assume that you are not the Cliff associated with Cheers! As to your ridiculous comment, first and foremost, as to what we said \’years ago\’ about Catawba Insurance, they remain in good standing with the SC DOI as of 11/20/2006.
Secondly, the long-term solvency of the carriers we have rated A or better (Stable) is appreciably better than similar measures published by other rating alternatives.
That the companies we rate are still around and you are grousing might mean that your markets compete with the companies we rate, and you lost some business to them.
Hello Joe,
I can see and understand both positions – those posted, as well as your response.
Perhaps – as a proposal – continue the listing as completed, but add an asterisk or some other marking, which could indicate which super regionals have a parent company over them (i.e., Travelers, AIG, etc.). That way, I think both objectives would be accomplished.
Just a suggestions.
Joe,
I agree with Kevin and Dave. The purpose of the report should be to allow a retail agency t look at alternatives to the national carriers as we all know how difficult a direct appointment can be. I would like to see a true super regional list.
Thank you
All of these points are valid and hopefully will allow Demotech to fine tune the next ratings. All I can say is that I work for one of the independents and I know we have worked hard for recognition such as this. We are proud to have been named and we strive to compete head to head with other Superregionals, but what we really want to do is offer a good alternative to the nationals; we really do try harder. Thanks IJ for giving us the thumbs up!
Congratulations on a very ambitious and necessary project. One concern mentioned in these posts concerns \”Super regionals\” that are affiliated with a national carrier. Is there any way of determining when a regional (super or otherwise) receives financial aid from their national carrier affiliate? If so, can the amount of aid also be determined?
The reason for the questions is because I believe there are Super regionals which operate with little or no financial aid of the national carrier affiliate while others are dependent in various degrees for aid from their national carrier.
I like the idea of distnguishing between those companies that are Super Regional because that is what they are and those who are Super Regional because they are part of a group of companies.
Please review the entire series of articles so that you can see how we catagorized strategic subsidiaries.
As soon as I saw how many they proposed were \”super regionals\” I questioned the findings.
Several of these are actually subs of a major national company: AIG is AIG, Mid Century and Truck Insurance Exchange are writing companies of Farmers, Travelers Casualty is Travelers, Hartford of IL is a Hartford company.
You might be able to cut this list in half if some research was done to see who the parents are.
Kevin,
you have addressed one of the concerns we had – specifically, we had to decide whether a subsidiary of a national or international company should be viewed as an independent entity or as a subsidiary within a group. We decided to view companies independently even if they were part of a larger group.
You raise an interesting thought and we would like to hear the opinion of other IJ subscribers.
Joe
Joe, I agree with Kevin that these subsidiaries only have a standing as \”super regionals\” because of their affiliation with, and support from, their large, national parent companies. The point of this \”super regional\” listing, at least how I viewed it, was to highlight \”regional\” companies that can compete with the Hartford, Travelers, and AIGs of the world. I thought the whole point was to showcase alternatives to the largest carriers,not include them.
Years ago, demotech rated Catawba Insurance as an A. within one and a half years, Catawba had withdrwan from Virginia due to poor financials.
I could get an \”A\” rating from Demotech for $1.00 and a cup of Starbucks.
Dave,
When we did our research we were astounded at the small number of carriers that are actually national in scope versus those that are perceived to be national in scope. Had we not included in the Super Regionals those carriers that were part of a larger group, we would have increased the count of \’national carriers\’ by including a large number of companies that, in fact, were not national. Further, some of the Super Regionals that are part of a larger group were set up to compete with independent Super Regionals.
In sum, I think your point and Kevin\’s are well taken, we will re-think the situation based on all of the input. All we ask is that you follow the entire series of categories so that you will better understand the fundamental dilemma of assigning carriers.
Cliff,
I will assume that you are not the Cliff associated with Cheers! As to your ridiculous comment, first and foremost, as to what we said \’years ago\’ about Catawba Insurance, they remain in good standing with the SC DOI as of 11/20/2006.
Secondly, the long-term solvency of the carriers we have rated A or better (Stable) is appreciably better than similar measures published by other rating alternatives.
That the companies we rate are still around and you are grousing might mean that your markets compete with the companies we rate, and you lost some business to them.
Hello Joe,
I can see and understand both positions – those posted, as well as your response.
Perhaps – as a proposal – continue the listing as completed, but add an asterisk or some other marking, which could indicate which super regionals have a parent company over them (i.e., Travelers, AIG, etc.). That way, I think both objectives would be accomplished.
Just a suggestions.
Joe,
I agree with Kevin and Dave. The purpose of the report should be to allow a retail agency t look at alternatives to the national carriers as we all know how difficult a direct appointment can be. I would like to see a true super regional list.
Thank you
All of these points are valid and hopefully will allow Demotech to fine tune the next ratings. All I can say is that I work for one of the independents and I know we have worked hard for recognition such as this. We are proud to have been named and we strive to compete head to head with other Superregionals, but what we really want to do is offer a good alternative to the nationals; we really do try harder. Thanks IJ for giving us the thumbs up!
Congratulations on a very ambitious and necessary project. One concern mentioned in these posts concerns \”Super regionals\” that are affiliated with a national carrier. Is there any way of determining when a regional (super or otherwise) receives financial aid from their national carrier affiliate? If so, can the amount of aid also be determined?
The reason for the questions is because I believe there are Super regionals which operate with little or no financial aid of the national carrier affiliate while others are dependent in various degrees for aid from their national carrier.
Keith Pratt CPCU, APA, ASF, ARC