What’s left? The commercial and IM business was sold off a few years ago, now the personal lines. This may be the end of this once proud company. Does anyone know what’s happeing to the employees?
As an insurance benchwarmer, what does this mean with ACE making two mega-acquisitions employee-wise? Are there going to be lay-offs same as with the CIGNA acquisition in ’99. Which lines of business would be affected? I am a young employee (20s) just starting out and need to know the “signs”.
Are you serious? I just started. What happens exactly? Do they try to recoup money by laying off due to expenses of the acquisition? Maybe I’ve reading too much WSJ but that the terminology I’m used to seeing.
God works in mysterious ways. I was mentally abused by Roanoke management who thought I was making waves by saying you can’t survivie giving away the house. All they wanted was more more more and its all “your fault.” Well the likes of Jim, Aron, Ed, the guy with the ketchup name, all their crap work has now finally climaxed into death of the company. Such well qualified management. The Atlantic Way is not to make waves, not to enforce manual rules and regulations, thus, making Atlantic into a miserable failure. This is what happens when a NYC company moves its management to hicky Roanoke, VA and still tries to pretend they are a NYC company. Atlantic deserves what they got!
God works in mysterious ways. I was mentally abused by Roanoke management who thought I was making waves by saying you can’t survivie giving away the house. All they wanted was more more more and its all “your fault.” Well the likes of Jim, Aron, Ed, the guy with the ketchup name, all their crap work has now finally climaxed into death of the company. Such well qualified management. The Atlantic Way is not to make waves, not to enforce manual rules and regulations, thus, making Atlantic into a miserable failure. This is what happens when a NYC company moves its management to hicky Roanoke, VA and still tries to pretend they are a NYC company. Atlantic deserves what they got!
I had the good fortune to jump the good ship Atlantic Mutual (AKA Titanic 2) just as the poop hit the turbofans. I saw them sell of their historic marine line and we all knew we were on a slippery slope.
Mgmt. took a company that was around since 1842 and drove it into the ground. “Hey look gang – is that an iceberg up there? Full Steam ahead”
Very sad day – we were all proud of what we had there.
I remember a few years back receiving a call from someone at this company asking is we wanted to buy their book of surety business. It sounded like they were having a garage sale. The whole thing struck me as odd at the time, but now it makes an odd sort of sense. Sad to see so many old line companies be sold off by poor ownership groups.
It is a sad day, isn’t it? If you read the Am bio-“Red Skies Morning and Night”, you’ll see that the Company was led by some talented and courageous people, but the Company turned conservative and risk averse in the last generation and stubbornly stuck to strategies in all divisions-Marine, Commercial and Personal which made a lot of sense in the late 70’s, but whch had ever been updated or changed and over time the competition passed AM by. As a result, the Company was ripe for a crisis which Klaus and Kermit were not willing to address. 9/11 was that crisis-the company had waaaay too much business within 50 miles of Lower Manhattan and would not take the tough steps needed to reduce their dependency on NY business.
The comment about the Surety business was interesting. it was not a bad idea, but AM rating was too low to attract superior surety risks and that whole division ended up as a major money loser at a time when AM couldn’t aford to lose any cash flow. How stupid was that!
AM’s demise would make a great case study at an MBA program somewhere as there are many lessons to be learned in how strategic thinking needs to occur.
Management would not acknowledge that Atlantic had a capital problem and anybody that tried to sound the alarm was shouted down as “too negative”. The collapse of Kemper put all mutual companies under the microscope and Best’s rating actions started the tailspin. As a result, Travelers, OneBeacon and ACE bought good businesses at bargain prices. Senior management’s egos and lack of financial savvy caused them to screw the pooch. 9/11 was one factor but they could have survived that thanks to solid reinsurance protection. It was an unfortunate turn of events but the blame falls clearly on management’s shoulders.
Anyone know what happens to claims against the company? Are their reserves still intact? What are they going to do with the money they received on the sale? Any leads would be appreciated.
Apparently they will remain in business to manage their claims run-off. Their ability to pay the remainder of their outstanding claims is tied directly to the adequacy of their remaining surplus (which is where the proceeds of the sale of the business should go). They don’t post their financials on their website but they are required to file their financials with the NY Dept. of Insurance. You should ask your broker to research this issue on your behalf.
I quit Atlantic about a year ago. At the time I quit, I was still thinking that they’d survive. They had a deal with Countrywide that kept them going and management was optimistic, at least on the surface.
I worked with many senior executives there. Most of them were competent and really wanted the company to succeed, but I think they made a series of really bad decisions along the way. I guess they didn’t know it at that time, but it became obvious later.
But, even when I was leaving, Atlantic’s future was still dependant on their commercial claims running off adequately. They left the bank door open for a while. I guess it was too late before they realized what was happening. Just one more mistake to add to the list.
Anyway, I wish all those people still there good luck. At least now you have some certainty in Atlantic’s future.
I have a copy of “Red Skies…Morning and Night” on my shelf. Who would have thought that a mutual company with such a long heritage would end up like that?
What the former NYC Premium Auditor fails to mention is the fact that the upper management team is not in Roanoke Virginia but in Madison NJ. Roanoke is where the process is and Madison NJ is where the decisions are made rather those decision are right or wrong.
Please know the facts prior to making comments about an event that you do not have all the facts. I would also conceder the fact that people still work there and your negative outlook does not help anyone including you.
WE HAVE REPRESENTED THE ATLANTIC COMPANIES IN NEW YORK FOR MANY YEARS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT A SERIES OF MANAGEMENT MISTAKES WERE MADE ALONG THE LINE THAT ALLOWED SHARPIES LIKE WHITE MOUNTAIN TO PICK UP AM’S COMMERCIAL BOOK AND SYSTEMS FOR A SONG AND LET TRAVELERS GET AWAY WITH THE REST. I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT. I HOPE WE CAN ALL CONTINUE WITH ACE. SO FAIR THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED ANYTHING OR ANYONE. LET’S HOPE THAT THIS TURNS INTO A BLESSING IN DISGUISE FOR ATLANTIC’S ROANOKE EMPLOYEES. THEY ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE TO CAUSE THE DEMISE OF THIS ONCE GREAT COMPANY. THIS COMPANY WAS AN AMERICAN INSTITUTION. WHAT A SHAME
Very well said. Sometimes we all want to think by keeping our heads in the sand will make the issues go away. Yet, as we know that is not the case. The vanishing of Atlantic Mutual is proof positive of this and very sad.
Ok now I’ve finally turned 55 and am able to claim my tiny pension that I worked for at Atlantic Mutual Companies….but I cannot contact anyone from that company. Does this mean I am not eligible anymore?
Is this a runoff of Atlantic Business or will Ace unitilize Atlantics Callcenter in Roanoke with it’s very capable people and begin to use what they purchased which is the Master Plan concept for high end high net worth policyholders in personal lines? Does anyone know?
What’s left? The commercial and IM business was sold off a few years ago, now the personal lines. This may be the end of this once proud company. Does anyone know what’s happeing to the employees?
As an insurance benchwarmer, what does this mean with ACE making two mega-acquisitions employee-wise? Are there going to be lay-offs same as with the CIGNA acquisition in ’99. Which lines of business would be affected? I am a young employee (20s) just starting out and need to know the “signs”.
Save your money… and quick!
Are you serious? I just started. What happens exactly? Do they try to recoup money by laying off due to expenses of the acquisition? Maybe I’ve reading too much WSJ but that the terminology I’m used to seeing.
The other shoe dropped, and the once-proud Atlantic Mutual has gone to history’s dust bin. Where was her Board during the Atlantic’s pathetic decline?
A sad day , RIP Atlanti Mutual
God works in mysterious ways. I was mentally abused by Roanoke management who thought I was making waves by saying you can’t survivie giving away the house. All they wanted was more more more and its all “your fault.” Well the likes of Jim, Aron, Ed, the guy with the ketchup name, all their crap work has now finally climaxed into death of the company. Such well qualified management. The Atlantic Way is not to make waves, not to enforce manual rules and regulations, thus, making Atlantic into a miserable failure. This is what happens when a NYC company moves its management to hicky Roanoke, VA and still tries to pretend they are a NYC company. Atlantic deserves what they got!
God works in mysterious ways. I was mentally abused by Roanoke management who thought I was making waves by saying you can’t survivie giving away the house. All they wanted was more more more and its all “your fault.” Well the likes of Jim, Aron, Ed, the guy with the ketchup name, all their crap work has now finally climaxed into death of the company. Such well qualified management. The Atlantic Way is not to make waves, not to enforce manual rules and regulations, thus, making Atlantic into a miserable failure. This is what happens when a NYC company moves its management to hicky Roanoke, VA and still tries to pretend they are a NYC company. Atlantic deserves what they got!
I had the good fortune to jump the good ship Atlantic Mutual (AKA Titanic 2) just as the poop hit the turbofans. I saw them sell of their historic marine line and we all knew we were on a slippery slope.
Mgmt. took a company that was around since 1842 and drove it into the ground. “Hey look gang – is that an iceberg up there? Full Steam ahead”
Very sad day – we were all proud of what we had there.
I’d work on my resume if I were you but upper level jobs usually go first. They usually need the people on the ground.
INA/ACE will not be gentle though.
I remember a few years back receiving a call from someone at this company asking is we wanted to buy their book of surety business. It sounded like they were having a garage sale. The whole thing struck me as odd at the time, but now it makes an odd sort of sense. Sad to see so many old line companies be sold off by poor ownership groups.
It is a sad day, isn’t it? If you read the Am bio-“Red Skies Morning and Night”, you’ll see that the Company was led by some talented and courageous people, but the Company turned conservative and risk averse in the last generation and stubbornly stuck to strategies in all divisions-Marine, Commercial and Personal which made a lot of sense in the late 70’s, but whch had ever been updated or changed and over time the competition passed AM by. As a result, the Company was ripe for a crisis which Klaus and Kermit were not willing to address. 9/11 was that crisis-the company had waaaay too much business within 50 miles of Lower Manhattan and would not take the tough steps needed to reduce their dependency on NY business.
The comment about the Surety business was interesting. it was not a bad idea, but AM rating was too low to attract superior surety risks and that whole division ended up as a major money loser at a time when AM couldn’t aford to lose any cash flow. How stupid was that!
AM’s demise would make a great case study at an MBA program somewhere as there are many lessons to be learned in how strategic thinking needs to occur.
Management would not acknowledge that Atlantic had a capital problem and anybody that tried to sound the alarm was shouted down as “too negative”. The collapse of Kemper put all mutual companies under the microscope and Best’s rating actions started the tailspin. As a result, Travelers, OneBeacon and ACE bought good businesses at bargain prices. Senior management’s egos and lack of financial savvy caused them to screw the pooch. 9/11 was one factor but they could have survived that thanks to solid reinsurance protection. It was an unfortunate turn of events but the blame falls clearly on management’s shoulders.
Anyone know what happens to claims against the company? Are their reserves still intact? What are they going to do with the money they received on the sale? Any leads would be appreciated.
Apparently they will remain in business to manage their claims run-off. Their ability to pay the remainder of their outstanding claims is tied directly to the adequacy of their remaining surplus (which is where the proceeds of the sale of the business should go). They don’t post their financials on their website but they are required to file their financials with the NY Dept. of Insurance. You should ask your broker to research this issue on your behalf.
Hope the workers are takin care of before the money pool dries up.
I quit Atlantic about a year ago. At the time I quit, I was still thinking that they’d survive. They had a deal with Countrywide that kept them going and management was optimistic, at least on the surface.
I worked with many senior executives there. Most of them were competent and really wanted the company to succeed, but I think they made a series of really bad decisions along the way. I guess they didn’t know it at that time, but it became obvious later.
But, even when I was leaving, Atlantic’s future was still dependant on their commercial claims running off adequately. They left the bank door open for a while. I guess it was too late before they realized what was happening. Just one more mistake to add to the list.
Anyway, I wish all those people still there good luck. At least now you have some certainty in Atlantic’s future.
I have a copy of “Red Skies…Morning and Night” on my shelf. Who would have thought that a mutual company with such a long heritage would end up like that?
What the former NYC Premium Auditor fails to mention is the fact that the upper management team is not in Roanoke Virginia but in Madison NJ. Roanoke is where the process is and Madison NJ is where the decisions are made rather those decision are right or wrong.
Please know the facts prior to making comments about an event that you do not have all the facts. I would also conceder the fact that people still work there and your negative outlook does not help anyone including you.
WE HAVE REPRESENTED THE ATLANTIC COMPANIES IN NEW YORK FOR MANY YEARS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT A SERIES OF MANAGEMENT MISTAKES WERE MADE ALONG THE LINE THAT ALLOWED SHARPIES LIKE WHITE MOUNTAIN TO PICK UP AM’S COMMERCIAL BOOK AND SYSTEMS FOR A SONG AND LET TRAVELERS GET AWAY WITH THE REST. I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT. I HOPE WE CAN ALL CONTINUE WITH ACE. SO FAIR THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED ANYTHING OR ANYONE. LET’S HOPE THAT THIS TURNS INTO A BLESSING IN DISGUISE FOR ATLANTIC’S ROANOKE EMPLOYEES. THEY ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE TO CAUSE THE DEMISE OF THIS ONCE GREAT COMPANY. THIS COMPANY WAS AN AMERICAN INSTITUTION. WHAT A SHAME
Very well said. Sometimes we all want to think by keeping our heads in the sand will make the issues go away. Yet, as we know that is not the case. The vanishing of Atlantic Mutual is proof positive of this and very sad.
Ok now I’ve finally turned 55 and am able to claim my tiny pension that I worked for at Atlantic Mutual Companies….but I cannot contact anyone from that company. Does this mean I am not eligible anymore?
Is this a runoff of Atlantic Business or will Ace unitilize Atlantics Callcenter in Roanoke with it’s very capable people and begin to use what they purchased which is the Master Plan concept for high end high net worth policyholders in personal lines? Does anyone know?
D
This is very important to my future.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO REINSURED ATLANTIC MUTUAL IN 1998 AND 1999?
Thank you so much.