Who are the health uninsured? We don’t know. Almost every independent contractor I know chooses not to buy health insurance even though they can afford it. They buy new trucks, boats, motorhomes, houses, season tickets, but not health insurance. So I should buy it for them?
Are we hardhearted because we don’t feed everybody? Are we hardhearted because we don’t house everybody? Are we hardhearted because Michael Moore says we are? If you know someone who doesn’t have health insurance, and you think they should, THEN YOU BUY A MAJOR MEDICAL POLICY FOR THEM. That is your right, your privelage. It is NOT YOUR RIGHT TO MAKE ME PAY FOR WHAT YOU DECIDE YOU WANT ME TO PAY FOR. Buy it, don’t buy it. ITS YOUR CHOICE!!!!
Perhaps if the system is electronic, consistent abusers (I didn’t say users) of the system will be noticed sooner. It would be hoped that fraud will be more easily caught as well, saving millions by itself.
The problem is the cost of health care. We now pay $600 a month for every man, woman, and child in this country for health care. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. “Is the cost stupid” Also the government controls 65% of the health care dollar now and they have caused the price to go up. Now if they control 100% how is that going to make it cheaper. The only way the government can reduce the cost is to ration health and control how much money people in health care make. Socialism doe not work, never has and never will. Obama does not even understand the basics of free market. Of course he doesn’t as he has never had a real job.
A couple of other points from this article need to be made.
1. The BIG 3 are paying higher health care cost because the UAW runs the show…not the Companies. Proven fact…get rid of the UAW and they will have plenty of capital to restructure. Just look at all the foreign auto makers building in the U.S. They have the correct strategy.
2. Given the obvious proven success of how the government has handled Social Security, what in the world would give any American the thought that the Government will be able to manage the health care industry with any fraction of success? I can see myself filling out my purchase order to see a government doctor 6 weeks after I get ill.
I agree completely with FREE MARKET DUDE, get the government out of health care and let the market develop a competitive price for treatment.
So I guess when this fails, it will be easier for them to give themselves a nice bailout.
Maybe if the health insurance companies didn’t pay agents 20% of the premium in commissions on the policy forever (Just for filling out the application and mailing it in), costs would be lower. No one needs a commission especially when agents don’t even answer billing and coverage questions once the policy is in force.
Uninformed. Hyperbole. Both? Who pays 20% commission and where can I sign up? Try 3% or 3.25% for most plans in New England. If the unions would agree to something higher than a $10 co-pay the auto mfrs could see some relief. Problem is the unions are holding mgt. hostage while most “main street” America businesses are implementing deductible plans, etc. 20% commissions….it’s hyperbole like this that enabled Spitzer to convince his cronies to do all that fine work a few years ago.
I’m all for a National Health Insurance Plan but I think that you have to be within 10% of your proper weight to participate. I cannot support an insurance program that would further the fattening of the American Public and then make me pay for it. Let’s try some level of responsible living here.
Fat people are out. Can we exclude anyone with a health problem? If you don’t like the way private insurers handle your plans, wait until the policical correct people write the federal plans.
The only reason the “system” is “troubled” is because of government intervention. This began over 70 years ago when government froze wages and employers had to offer something to attract employees. Then the “Great Society” programs of the 60’s extended government even deeper into health care. It is a fact as certain as gravity that government interventions cause problems which bureaucrats/politicians/Soviet committee members (or do I repeat myself?) contend can only be solved by more government intervention. Yet the opposite is the solution-get the government out of health care (and every other part of the economy as well; in fact, get the government out of everything including our lives, ship them to some deserted island somewhere where they can only hurt themselves)and free market forces will bring health care supply and demand to an equilibrium.
By the way, when was the last time IJ ever had an article that was remotely friendly to the free market?
So under your wonderful free market system, I guess low-life doctor can still be free to continue to artifically inflate BI claims with “revolutionary” but unproven medical procedures that these quacks bill at 70k for 25 minutes of labor? Is that an example of the benefits of you anything goes free market”?
at least in every successful Western democracy. Time we manned and wommanned up and got it done.
Anyway, the big corporations want to “offload” this cost to increase their profits, so it will get done this time.
Face facts, Hillary was right in the early 90s. The current system is uncivilized and expertly victimizes the unlucky. The “I got mine” crowd, who are the majority in this peculiar little IJ world, is OUT OF TOUCH. Live it or live with it, you spoiled and indolent brats! Like you really earned everything good that has come to you….
Doctors’Fees and Hospital Costs have escalated so dramatically over the past 20
years, it’s frightening. Similarly, college tuition, room and board, books, etc., have escalated at an alarming rate.
There is no end in sight, at least, that I know of.
If we do not place a ceiling on medical costs, hospital costs, medical tests, etc., etc., etc., we will never be able afford health care and all people will do without. It’s happening now and there’s no reason for it.
Don’t blame insurance companies for the cost of higher medical insurance. Blame doctors, nurses, medical techinicians, hospital for blatently increasing their costs over the past many years.
1958-The cost to repair a broken arm $100
2008-$2,000 Ask me, I know.
If you could please find in the constitution where it defines health care as a “RIGHT”…you may have an argument. Speaking of the success of a “National” Health care plan, was it not one of our OWN states that tried this and has recently abandoned it because it was a total failure. I’m sure they will be the first on board this train failure.
In my opinion having a “free market” healthcare system is a crock. I don’t care how fat someone is. I don’t care how sickly someone is. It is not right to tell someone they cannot have treatment for their illnesses. I know people that literally have to ask friends for antibiotics because they cannot afford them due to lack of insurance. My son had an ear infection. Luckily we have insurance on him. The ear drops alone would have cost 140 dollars. 140 dollars for eardrops? That is insane. Even worse people with cancer get denied because procedures are experimental. They get put off and put off until they die. It is a sad world we live in. Where is the humanity? That is why our country is going down the crapper. Nobody gives a crap about anyone any more. I don’t care if I have to pay extra money to help out people. I mean in the long run the money I would have to put in would probably equal going out to eat a few times. If that is what it costs to help prevent someone from dying I honestly do not mind paying it. I believe if we actually all made an attempt to help one another the country might repair itself. At this time everyone is out to screw over everyone. All anyone cares about are there possessions and their money. For example in our building there are also medical offices. I saw an old woman who fell and was stuck between her car and the curb. At least 10 people just walked right past her. Only me and 1 other person (another older woman) who stopped and helped her up and into the building. How sad is that? I am only 29 and I could not even imagine something like that happening when I was around 15. People are getting colder and colder and less caring. If people would start respecting one another a little more 99 percent of our countries problems would vanish. Everyone absolutely everyone deserves proper medical treatment. Maybe if it was nationalized and doctors payrolls would go down drastically the doctors that actually enjoyed helping people would train to become doctors. As of now a good portion of them don’t even care about people. They just want the paycheck.
Here is a fact that can NOT be denied – At some point, we are ALL going to die due to some kind of medical deficiency unless we are involved in a catastrophic accident.
So, no matter how you cut it, if healthcare becomes a “right”, and everyone has equal access …then, somebody is going to have to play God.
We can’t provide liver transplants to 99 year olds and survive as a society. So, does that 99 year old not “deserve” the best healthcare available? At what age did he change to “undeserving”? 98, 90, 81, 73, 66, 55 …where?
C’mon folks, I know you find it easy to play into the class warfare conversation, but the free market is the ONLY way to dole out healthcare without playing God. And, when people play God, they have power that nobody else has. When that happens, nothing close to fair, really happens because that person lives a “fairer” life than the others.
Just think about it a little, please? Or, have we lost that ability?
That way the uninsured but seriously, possibly terminally ill can have a choice when facing unsurmountable medical bills -bankrupt your family or commit suicide legally.
what the he ll is a community organizer? I call it UNEMPLOYED!!! This idiot got elected by the TV networks buying the office for him. Getting elected does not make you smart. He is a great bull sh tter. True of most dems. I say he is unqualified to make most decisions he will make for the next four years. Health care included. He got a free ride through college on MY taxes because of his color. NOT African American BLACK. Pick a name and stay with it. I am so sick of political correctness I could puke.
Just work on the economy idiot. Break the unions building cars which cost $5,000 more due to pensions which should not exist and are not funded anyway.
HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT A RIGHT IN ANY MANNER. THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT MENTION IT? Who does not get healthcare anyway? YOu do not have insurance, you go to the emergency room costing all taxpayers twice what a doctor visit might cost for your stuffy nose. QUIT WHINING AND GET TO WORK AND THIS MESS MIGHT END!
Part of the problem is that people do not utilize medical care ENOUGH. If preventative care were covered more, if people went for an annual physical, we can stop or control medical problems before they become larger more costly issues.
And some of you are real pieces of work. I agree w/Akimbo-the healthcare costs have become outrageous, and is there no compassion left in this country? People need a hand up, not a hand out, true, and not everyone who needs help is trying to milk the system. There is genuine need in our country. It is a disgrace the number of people in our country who can’t go to the doctor, are on food stamps, are living on the streets, are dying because they can’t afford their medicine…are we not the richest country in the world?
Anyone who considers the concept of a nationalized health care system should think about this…If we do what the “community organizer” is proposing (putting pressure on the medical field to lower cost of treatments etc,)then doesn’t this sound very similar to what got us into the housing crisis we are in now??? The government thought everyone had a “RIGHT” to own a home and forced all these private banks to conform to the lending practices of Frannie and Freddie. As we have seen here, when the government gets involved with altering the free market system and forces private enterprise to change its practices, it will eventually collapse. WELCOME TO SOCIALISM AT IT’S BEST!!!
Political campaigns in the recent past have focused much attention on the 47 million Americans without health insurance (which is only about 15.5 percent of the population). But who are the uninsured in America? According to information generated by Kiplingers, found in the New York Times and also reported in InsuranceNewsNet Magazine (August 2008 edition), the uninsured breakdowns as follows:
• 8.4 million are eligible for current government programs but are not participating (for whatever reason);
• 10.2 million are not US citizens (though about 80 percent of these are here legally);
• 9.2 million are members of households with a household income of $75,000 or more. Reports are that some don’t want coverage because they are healthy and others can’t get open-market coverage due to pre-existing conditions;
• 6.9 million reside in households with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 and just don’t buy the coverage; and
• 7.5 million are between 19 and 24 and either don’t have access to healthcare, lack the money to pay for the coverage or don’t think they need coverage because they are healthy.
This totals to 42.2 million people (not all are citizens). Leaving just 4.8 million (1.6 percent of the population) truly uninsured and unaccounted for.
Who are the uninsured in America? According to information generated by Kiplingers, found in the New York Times and also reported in InsuranceNewsNet Magazine (August 2008 edition), the uninsured breakdowns as follows:
• 8.4 million are eligible for current government programs but are not participating (for whatever reason);
• 10.2 million are not US citizens (though about 80 percent of these are here legally);
• 9.2 million are members of households with a household income of $75,000 or more. Reports are that some don’t want coverage because they are healthy and others can’t get open-market coverage due to pre-existing conditions;
• 6.9 million reside in households with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 and just don’t buy the coverage; and
• 7.5 million are between 19 and 24 and either don’t have access to healthcare, lack the money to pay for the coverage or don’t think they need coverage because they are healthy.
This totals to 42.2 million people (not all are citizens). Leaving just 4.8 million (1.6 percent of the population) truly uninsured and unaccounted for.
Are you serious, D? Better preventative care is the answer?
Think about this. Who has the very best medical treatment available? Answer – Presidents of the US. Does anyone have better medical attention? And, the coverage continues after they leave office, right?
Well, son of a gun, guess what? They will still die of a medical condition of some sort. They are NOT living past 150 years of age, are they? Eventually, they are going to cost massive amounts of money, to continue to treat them. So, you put off that treatment for 10 years because you eat so well and the doctor sees you every quarter? The end result is still the same, and still expensive, even if the cost was shifted a few years.
I’m not saying this is a bad idea individually, but I am saying this will not solve any major problems in the end.
There ARE genuine needs in our country. There ARE genuine needs in EVERY country, and there always will be. Our forefathers set out to form a “more perfect union”, not THE perfect union. There can be NO “perfect union”. There can be no “perfect” lives. There are some problems that are NOT solvable in this world.
I’m sorry if your parents didn’t teach you the realities of life. Maybe they were too busy not spanking, and letting you do anything you wanted to do. I can see how growing up in that kind of environment would end in a belief that government (the pseudo step-parent) owes you anything you THINK you need. And, if you don’t get it, then just throw a little trantrum. Blame your situation on God, or selfishness, or just the total unfairness of it all.
C’mon, you know that’s right!
Get over yourselves, and do some serious soul-searching and maybe some study of history.
The reason people left “civilization” as it was known and came to this land that was forming a country was not because they wanted to be taken care of so perfectly. It was not because of the healthcare or the minimum wage it could guarantee. It was not because of the fairness that was available.
Why did they come? Because of the OPPORTUNITY and the FREEDOM the very tough decision offered. And, yes, it was a VERY tough decision. It would be like going to live on Mars today. Would you leave everything you have, travel for 10 years in a craft that wasn’t guaranteed to make it, only to find a land with nothing familiar and the likelihood of never being able to come back? I can only guess what you would do, but the opportunity and freedom were just enough for some.
Opportunities are not guarantees. They are not fair. They ARE what you make of them.
Freedom doesn’t mean you can get away with anything and everything, but it does mean the government, the king, the dictator, or whatever, is not on your proverbial back. They do NOT control your life.
Freedom and Opportunity beats guarantees and control anytime, I assure you. Otherwise, nobody would have left their friends, family, and the land where they grew up to cross a perilous sea and get off a rickety ship into the arms of an unknown and savage land. They didn’t even know if they were going to be able to feed themselves, much less worry about whether they were going to continue their supply of their Prozac of the time.
Why would we want to spit on our forefathers wisdom, and wish for the solutions of the past? Because life doesn’t seem “fair” enough?
What whiners we have become!
Maybe we are getting what we deserve? A hippy, peacenik, drugged up, and socialist/communist, daddy-government-knows-best world. Is that what we want? Some of us do, for certain.
As for me, I think we would be better off if we spent more time forging a life for ourselves, by ourselves, instead of preoccupying our minds with gathering toys, having sex (homo or hetero) with multiple partners, keeping up with totally unimportant lives, star/pop-culture lives, and focusing on how others should live their lives.
Forming better individuals is the only way of forming a better society, and that’s what America has always done best, and that’s why there have always been far, far more people that want to come to this country, than want to leave.
And who else are we going to exclude? How about people who need transplants? How about anyone over 65?
When you put one government buearcracy in charge, people are going to be excluded. When will the government decide that treating someone’s health issues is no longer cost-effective? Remember, you’re putting your healthcare in the care of the same people who are bankrupting social security. Giving benefits to illegal aliens and taking away from the people who actully contribute to society.
the conversation about Socializing our country. Rather you want to focus on passionate statements alluding to how hard hearted one must be if they don’t agree that government is the answer to any and all problems. How can you abide those poor folks on food stamps, she asks.
Well, I donated the food stamps, so I feel good about that.
Let me put it another way. You know the flowery op-ed I just submitted to the New York Times? Well, in it I just tell everyone to ignore my cowardly acts of domestic terrorism. After all, like OJ, I meant no harm. Never mind I still give speeches on foreign soil denouncing my country. As long as I tell you, here, how sorry I am, what else matters? Because I know, D, you won’t dig too deep into ANY ISSUE, so why would you apply any analysis to what I have decided I want you to think about me now? You will think what you are told to think.
47 million people without health insurance. Most insured people receive coverage through their employers . Okay what will happen to people being lay off??? Health Insurance, maybe if we get the insurance out of the health the overhauling will not be so hard
Actually, if we got the socialism out of both Republicans and Democrat politicians, maybe the problems would be much easier to solve.
If people weren’t paying half of what they earn in taxes, so politicians can spend our money on things they think are fair, maybe we would all have the money needed to pay for our healthcare …with or without insurance.
I had an aunt who was very dear to me become a victim of our current health care system. She was 61 years old and diagnosed with a malignant tumor wrapped around her kidney. I accompanied her to the offices of two specialists who, during her appointments, focused only on one issue. That issue was why she didn’t have health insurance at her age and position in life. We explained the fact that her husband had retired from truck driving prior to her health condition and lost his insurance benefits. As she was too young for medicare and had too many assets, barely, to qualify for medicaid, she was shuttled from one doctor to another until she was so ill that she was scheduled for surgery with a surgeon that had NEVER PERFORMED this delicate procedure and, after cutting a main artery she died on the operating table. What a tragedy!
There was a time, in the early 70s, that health insurance was provided by Daily Room Benefit and Hospital/Surgical Schedule Riders. The benefits averaged $50-$100 per day in the hospital with reasonable limits for Surgical and Miscellaneous Expenses. It was affordable and hospitals rarely charged in excess of what people were covered for. One of the major insurance companies, Mutual of Omaha, developed a worderful marketing idea. They called it Major Medical coverage. Instead of limiting the client to a DRB and Surgical Schedule, they provided a program that paid, after a small deductible, medical charges based on what a doctor and hospital charged. You had a cost share arrangement, coinsurance, but the patient’s liability was really quite small. What a brilliant way to market medical security. Only one problem. It didn’t take the health care industry long to figure out that whatever they charged would be paid. The result was ever increasing premiums to cover the ever increasing costs. A blank check for the hospitals meant multiple MRI facilities within walking distance of each other and duplication of services that were billed to the consumer, paid by insurance carriers and then AGAIN passed on to the consumer. As premiums went up, commissions became huge and then premiums had to go up even more. Seem like a self-defeating cycle? In essence, what has destroyed the affordability of the health care system is the very group of organizations that professed to give us security in health care affordability. When will the insanity end?
1) there is no such thing as free health care, someone has to pay the bills
2) to the bleeding heart socialist the will respond “the government should pay for it” you and me FUND the government so we are STILL paying for it.
3) Congrats to the socialist, this is the first step towards a socialist america. Whimps! get off you butt stop waiting for the government to do everything for you and go do it for yourself.
Do you have any connection to or knowledge of the insurance industry? Huge commissions? Not likely. Ask a few of the agents who post on this site about the huge commissions.
Healthcare is a privalege for those who pay for it, not a right for those who do not pay for it. Health care costs have skyrocketed due to jackpot litigation. Lawsuits have caused doctors to order tests simply to help avoid litigation. The high cost of medical malpractice insurance is passed on to the doctors’ patients. This leads to higher costs for medical procedures. It is our own stupidity for allowing jackpot lawsuits to suck money out of the system. We need nationwide litigation caps on non-financial damages (loss of companionship, emotional distress, etc.)
I think it is crazy how Americans are more than willing to pay many thousands of dollars for a car, truck, television, etc. and yet we complain about paying a couple thousand for taking care of our health. Our priorities are really messed up!
THANK YOU FOR HAVING A HEART. And in response to “nobody important”, I certainly do have experience and knowledge of the history of health insurance. In the mid-80’s health insurance companies were paying 27% of the first year annualized premium to agents for selling major medical. I was in upper management of one of those companies so I certainly know what I am talking about. I was also referring to the process that has driven up the rates for health insurance and costs of medical care. Open your eyes and not your mouth. To the person who said that insurance is a privilege, tell that to people that have had it for 40 years and are now losing it due to unaffordability. Insurance is a commodity that should be priced as a profitable product for a reasonable price so that it fulfills a purpose, not something that is subsidized by the state governments so that insurance company executives can pad their pockets with golden parachutes and multi-million dollar salaries.
Health Care is a commodity (dr, hospital, etc) and Health Insurance (transfer of risk) is a Privilege. Most of us have that mixed up thinking that its the insurance industry’s fault for the cost of service. We need many more Dr’s flooding the commodity market to make quick and less expensive Health Care available.
I have a great deal of sympathy for those losing their insurance. My daughter is losing hers soon, but that has nothing to do with this article. It has to do with my comments or the business of insurance however. You comment on high commissions and I don’t believe the commissions are anywhere near the level you state in your post. Times change and so do commission and the change is down. In my opinion the cost of the insurance is driven far more by the incredible increases in the cost of medical care. If you have a solution to that problem you better post it since you will win the Nobel Prize. When I post a comment it’s not a social comment. It’s meant to be in the sense that this is an insurance busines magazine site. I’m not being harsh, I thing that if I wanted to read Oprah or Dr. Phil topics I would go to their web site.
There needs to be a disconnect between one’s employment status and one’s healthcare status. With the economy the way it is, this is becoming more and more apparent. Whatever is necessary to break this bondage, and make it so that people will continue to have health insurance, at a reasonable cost, with out without employment– this should be the priority in any reform model.
Nobel Prize.News • December 5, 2008
President-elect Barack Obama has begun laying the groundwork for overhauling the troubled U.S. healthcare system, reaching out to interest groups and building grass-roots support for the huge …
would you please tell me how my anut story has nothing to do with this story and I GIVE YOU Nobel Prize. aND YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO TELL Oprah or Dr. Phil ABOUT YOUR SO CALL… GREAT INDUSTRY
In a socialized system like Britain they probably would have made the decision that your aunt was too ill for her age and that the limited resources of the NHS would be best served treating the cancer of a younger patient.
Yes, our system is rife with corruption, costs are out of control, and there are people without health care, or with poor quality or limited heath care.
But the sad truth that noone wants to acknowledge is these will be facts under any system. We have something like a 10 trillion dollar debt. We don’t make anything, our population is aging, and we are getting dumber with flailing education system.
Anyone who tells you we will all magically have great healthcare is blowing smoke up your derriere. It won’t get better, it will get worse, with the disparity becoming more evident w/ wealthy receiving health care and poor receiving none. Or, we’ll get a socialized (and equally, or more, corrupt) system that replaces wealth disparity with unilateral authoritarian decisions about your medical care doled out by an uncaring govermental entity with a shrinking budget.
The insurance mechanism is a business that passes along the costs of the product. I just don’t see the vast profits in the insurance industry that you insurance company critics seem to think are involved. I do object to any takover of private enterprise by a governmental fiat. Government will not do it better or more equitably. Government bureaucrats are even less responsive than private business red tape pushers. As with any government program the costs will be many times any estimate and we will be forced to do with much less health care in the future. Government is not more efficient than private enterprise. Business generally has to stay lean to make a profit and be competitive. Government has no incentive to stay lean. Layer on layer of unending red tape will be added to an overbloated system because government has no incentive to reduce costs. We will all lose. By the way, the Nobel Prize lost any meaning to me a long time ago. The Jimmy Carter and Al Gore awards just nailed that coffin shut.
I wouldn’t and don’t allow my pets to suffer. Do we need a governmental health care plan for pets now? Oh, you mean to ridicule me. How clever. Now the government will be able to eliminate suffering and death. Pretty ambitious plan. I wish Obama the best here, but in the end the cost of this will be beyond reason. Government agencies do not care about costs. Have you ever been to a caring governmental agency? The IRS and Social Security Adminstration certainly are helping and generous people. Think of the IRS of health care agencies. Lovely thought. I wish the solution was as easy as government mandates that everybody is healed and healthy and nobody ever suffers. In the end this will be just another bankrupt governmental boondoggle.
I am sorry for your loss, but since your aunt didn’t qualify for a gov’t program, she neglected to buy insurance? Is that the point of your story?
You never mentioned whether she could afford some sort of private insurance, which leads me to believe that she just neglected to buy it.
How does that further any point made on this board? Why should I as a tax payer take on the burden of your aunt’s neglect? And how would national healthcare have prevneted to accident that lead to her death? I guess I don’t understand the point of your story…
I believe we have a single whiner making multiple named posts.
You have summed it up in a nutshell, but the nutball will never get it. Things happen and all wrongs will never be righted, all pain will never be relieved, all intellectual shortfalls will never be successfully educated …in this world.
Finally, I think the chances of this poster ever having been in the upper managment of a major medical insurance company are nearly nill. There is simply no way. He would have to cut his hair and take a bath.
Ok, I could be wrong, but I don’t think anyone has suggested that the system in general couldn’t use some changes to make it better.
I don’t think any, but a VERY few, don’t feel badly for all the horror stories that could be interjected into this conversation.
As a matter of fact, my mother has been forced to use medicaid, and it was no fun. She’s now on medicare, which is just a little better. My father had a heart attack in the early 80’s and the blood he received in his open heart surgery was contaminated with hepatitis that eventually led to his death ten years later at the age of 63. There is nothing more fun than watching your dad die in a hospital bed of renal failure, which means you basically drown to death. I did that. Do I wish some things had worked out differently – of course. But, we all die. It is rarely, if ever, painless, but it will happen to all of us one way or another. All balanced human beings feel bad in those times. But, feelings are one thing and facts are quite another.
Where you are hearing major turmoil on this board and around the country is over the Socialistic solution of letting the government take it over. There is no possible way that is going to solve any of these problems at all …period. In fact, it will ONLY make them worse.
Now, for somebody to flipantly say that at least Obama is trying something is just not an intelligent response. I have a 4 and a 5 year old in my family. I also have a teenager. Feeling my pain yet? All of them seem to know how to solve SO MANY problems. It’s amazing how stupid us parents really are.
Now, if you could ask them after they tell you how things should work, I’ll bet you could get the very same response. Somthing about “trying” it. Does that make them correct? Does that mean we should try it their way when we know better?
Unfortunately, there will be some that post on this board that probably will honestly say yes. And …that’s where the biggest problem is with society. Over grown children that just want somebody to take care of them. Well, it just doesn’t work that way, no matter how noble the feeling and no matter how fervent the desire.
Universal healthcare just means everyone one is covered.It doesnot have mean government run, and consumers have no choice. Federal employees have numerous choices and the most important component is no one is excluded for pre-existing conditions. All Americans who do not have coverage should be able to join the federal healthcare plan. The coverage is better and cheaper because of size of plan. This does not mean the government pays premiums. We are not talking about a free lunch, just a better lunch at a lower cost.
Well, Papabear, if that were what we were discussing, I would give it a semi-cool maybe. However, you need to click on “back to article” and read the entire first paragraph. Hell, read the whole article.
Why would you need to “build grass roots support” for such a “huge undertaking” if all we’re talking about is opening up the Federal plan to all citizens?
Besides a very few in the insurance industry, who is going to complain about that? Why would that be such a huge undertaking if the answer is so damn simple?
Answer – that’s not what the Socialists want to do. They want to take over healthcare so they become even more powerful. So their influence is worth even more when people come to buy it.
They need to make it as “complicated as possible” so that only an elite few can possibly have the answers. Just like they did with the “tremendously complicated” financial crisis …so they could spend nearly a trillion dollars (750 billion and climbing) and …son of a gun, we’re still in a completely undesirable financial situation. We’re just a trillion dollars poorer than we were yesterday.
The only difference in the end with the finanical crises and the medical crisis, will be the few new faces that profit from the new program.
Right?
That’s how government today works. That’s why we need to slice all of the non-constitutional malarky that the government has slowly foisted on all of us and go back to a free nation, where government stays out of our lives and only does the minimum required by the constitution. Then, you would be amazed at how much capital would be back in the system and how we could once again afford lots of things we need as a people.
there may very well be a need for “a” change…but, socialized “national” health care is not the answer.
when i call my dr’s office now, it takes me 3 days to get an appt sometime… stop and THINK for a second how long it would take to get in if health care was free and available to everyone all the time. it would be abused [see housing market example] and end up being worse than it is now.
think outside the box all you “grassrooters” there has to be another solution.
The health insurance biz is not my focus, but I do think the HSA concept is definitely a great start. It has got to cost people money to go to the doctor; otherwise as a previous post indicated, the offices will be so clogged we’ll never get timely care.
Let people put cash aside that can be used for healthcare, and if not, use it for retirement income. Let that continue to be deductible like an IRA.
As I said, this is a great start.
That’s the easiest part. Getting the uninsured people properly categorized and covered in some manner is the tricky part.
All I do know is the government needs to be as out of the equation as possible. Perhaps they could provide some kind of financial backstop for the health care companies when they take on those riskier uninsured folks. But, then you open up the gates to fraud a little wider.
There has to be a better solution than the government-care-card. Look at FEMA …you are going to be hard-pressed to find a more mismanaged operation. Multiply those problems by tens of thousands, and you’ll begin to see the future problems of socialized medicine.
Of course the age-old rebuttal from the big-government crowd is that the socialist solution has only failed in the past because the right people weren’t running it. Well, guess what, there will never be the “right people” for that task. That’s an unattainable goal when humans are part of the equation. As of now, humans are an irreplaceable element.
I did read article and never saw the word socialize medicine. We need to lower healthcare cost or our business will not be able to compete -“The United States now spends more on healthcare than any other developed nation, yet has some 47 million people without health insurance. Most insured people receive coverage through their employers but businesses complain that exploding costs threaten their competitiveness in a global market.
Since business or government are paying for workers healthcare workers for those who have coverage workers have not receive higher wages.
Also those in medical profession have restricted entry into field by reducing the number of medical schools and as a result are able to raise prices.Many Doctors in Florida now will not except insurance. You pay them up front $1500 to be their patient and you process the paper work as a out of system doctor which cost consumers more money. Doctors are making more money this way with less patients.This is the way of the future if system is not changed.
Every woman, man, youth and child has the human right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health, without discrimination of any kind. Enjoyment of the human right to health is vital to all aspects of a person’s life and well-being, and is crucial to the realization of many other fundamental human rights and freedoms
The United States HAS Insurance FOR ALL THE BOYS IN THE HOUSE WHO PAYS FOR ALL OF THAT. LET THEM PAY FOR Insurance . I WOULD BE GLAD TO HAVE THEM GIVE IT UP AND GIVE IT TO THE POOR.. WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE IT WHEN OTHERS DO WITH OUT?
Wow …did you think that up all by yourself, or was it proclaimed by the World Court?
I would contend that you could insert anything, and I mean anything, into that syrupy dribble.
What about security, food, transportation, accumulation of wealth, global warming, education, cleanliness, vegetarianism, religion, noisy neighbors, fleas on my dog. What else?
So, the government should control everything that could fall under the umbrella of your utopist vision, huh? Sounds like Animal Farm to me. I can’t wait to be a happy pig.
Here’s a reality check …what you have described is exactly what the American medical system has provided, if you think about it. Health has been dramatically improved in the past century. Dramatically! And, it was done without government intervention, if you can possibly believe it.
Now, the question …what is the highest attainable? That would indicate that there are limits. Do you want to be limited by the system that has been in place over the past 100 years, or do you want to be limited by some pencil-necked bureaucrat that’s going to decide how to dole out your healthcare.
I would implore anybody that believes the government can do it better, to research the successes of FEMA. I just saw a new story in Houston yesterday about a family that was still living in tents since hurricane Ike. They have been approved for a FEMA trailer, many weeks ago, but nearly 3 months later, it’s still not there. The news crew interviewed the FEMA representative, and being the judgmental sort that I am, I saw a hippy-era, mediocre individual, that’s found a government job that’s way over their head. If she didn’t/doesn’t smoke pot, I would be shocked.
I’d bet serious money that she’s not the only one, and in fact I’ll bet it’s rampant in ANY government department.
Have you ever taken a trip down to the Social Security office and tried to get anything done? What are your feelings about your Homeowners Associations or Deed Boards, or whatever you have?
If you have had any contact with these types, you will not have had a great experience, and it won’t be any different with a Department of Health representative that’s going to decide whether you are worthy of gall stone surgery. And, the term Czar is SO very correct.
Competition is the only way to get the best. Yes, that means sometimes you get a loser, but 100 years of progress can’t be refuted. How many advances have come out of Cuba in the same time period?
Bailout in economics and finance is a term used to describe a situation where a bankrupt or nearly bankrupt entity, such as a corporation or a bank, is given a fresh injection of liquidity, in order to meet its short-term obligations. Often bailouts are by governments, or by consortia of investors who demand control over the entity as the price for injecting funds.
It cost more when people do not have INSURANCE.
AIG Owes $10 Billion for Soured Trades, Wall Street Journal Reports… dole out your healthcare.
umbrella of your utopist vision, huh?I can’t wait to be a happy pig.
Who are the health uninsured? We don’t know. Almost every independent contractor I know chooses not to buy health insurance even though they can afford it. They buy new trucks, boats, motorhomes, houses, season tickets, but not health insurance. So I should buy it for them?
Are we hardhearted because we don’t feed everybody? Are we hardhearted because we don’t house everybody? Are we hardhearted because Michael Moore says we are? If you know someone who doesn’t have health insurance, and you think they should, THEN YOU BUY A MAJOR MEDICAL POLICY FOR THEM. That is your right, your privelage. It is NOT YOUR RIGHT TO MAKE ME PAY FOR WHAT YOU DECIDE YOU WANT ME TO PAY FOR. Buy it, don’t buy it. ITS YOUR CHOICE!!!!
I smell a new entitlement program. Same old same old.
The problem is over usage and people not caring what the cost is as they think someone else pays.
Perhaps if the system is electronic, consistent abusers (I didn’t say users) of the system will be noticed sooner. It would be hoped that fraud will be more easily caught as well, saving millions by itself.
The problem is the cost of health care. We now pay $600 a month for every man, woman, and child in this country for health care. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. “Is the cost stupid” Also the government controls 65% of the health care dollar now and they have caused the price to go up. Now if they control 100% how is that going to make it cheaper. The only way the government can reduce the cost is to ration health and control how much money people in health care make. Socialism doe not work, never has and never will. Obama does not even understand the basics of free market. Of course he doesn’t as he has never had a real job.
A couple of other points from this article need to be made.
1. The BIG 3 are paying higher health care cost because the UAW runs the show…not the Companies. Proven fact…get rid of the UAW and they will have plenty of capital to restructure. Just look at all the foreign auto makers building in the U.S. They have the correct strategy.
2. Given the obvious proven success of how the government has handled Social Security, what in the world would give any American the thought that the Government will be able to manage the health care industry with any fraction of success? I can see myself filling out my purchase order to see a government doctor 6 weeks after I get ill.
I agree completely with FREE MARKET DUDE, get the government out of health care and let the market develop a competitive price for treatment.
So I guess when this fails, it will be easier for them to give themselves a nice bailout.
Maybe if the health insurance companies didn’t pay agents 20% of the premium in commissions on the policy forever (Just for filling out the application and mailing it in), costs would be lower. No one needs a commission especially when agents don’t even answer billing and coverage questions once the policy is in force.
Uninformed. Hyperbole. Both? Who pays 20% commission and where can I sign up? Try 3% or 3.25% for most plans in New England. If the unions would agree to something higher than a $10 co-pay the auto mfrs could see some relief. Problem is the unions are holding mgt. hostage while most “main street” America businesses are implementing deductible plans, etc. 20% commissions….it’s hyperbole like this that enabled Spitzer to convince his cronies to do all that fine work a few years ago.
I’m all for a National Health Insurance Plan but I think that you have to be within 10% of your proper weight to participate. I cannot support an insurance program that would further the fattening of the American Public and then make me pay for it. Let’s try some level of responsible living here.
Fat people are out. Can we exclude anyone with a health problem? If you don’t like the way private insurers handle your plans, wait until the policical correct people write the federal plans.
The only reason the “system” is “troubled” is because of government intervention. This began over 70 years ago when government froze wages and employers had to offer something to attract employees. Then the “Great Society” programs of the 60’s extended government even deeper into health care. It is a fact as certain as gravity that government interventions cause problems which bureaucrats/politicians/Soviet committee members (or do I repeat myself?) contend can only be solved by more government intervention. Yet the opposite is the solution-get the government out of health care (and every other part of the economy as well; in fact, get the government out of everything including our lives, ship them to some deserted island somewhere where they can only hurt themselves)and free market forces will bring health care supply and demand to an equilibrium.
By the way, when was the last time IJ ever had an article that was remotely friendly to the free market?
So under your wonderful free market system, I guess low-life doctor can still be free to continue to artifically inflate BI claims with “revolutionary” but unproven medical procedures that these quacks bill at 70k for 25 minutes of labor? Is that an example of the benefits of you anything goes free market”?
at least in every successful Western democracy. Time we manned and wommanned up and got it done.
Anyway, the big corporations want to “offload” this cost to increase their profits, so it will get done this time.
Face facts, Hillary was right in the early 90s. The current system is uncivilized and expertly victimizes the unlucky. The “I got mine” crowd, who are the majority in this peculiar little IJ world, is OUT OF TOUCH. Live it or live with it, you spoiled and indolent brats! Like you really earned everything good that has come to you….
Doctors’Fees and Hospital Costs have escalated so dramatically over the past 20
years, it’s frightening. Similarly, college tuition, room and board, books, etc., have escalated at an alarming rate.
There is no end in sight, at least, that I know of.
If we do not place a ceiling on medical costs, hospital costs, medical tests, etc., etc., etc., we will never be able afford health care and all people will do without. It’s happening now and there’s no reason for it.
Don’t blame insurance companies for the cost of higher medical insurance. Blame doctors, nurses, medical techinicians, hospital for blatently increasing their costs over the past many years.
1958-The cost to repair a broken arm $100
2008-$2,000 Ask me, I know.
If you could please find in the constitution where it defines health care as a “RIGHT”…you may have an argument. Speaking of the success of a “National” Health care plan, was it not one of our OWN states that tried this and has recently abandoned it because it was a total failure. I’m sure they will be the first on board this train failure.
Well he does now!
In my opinion having a “free market” healthcare system is a crock. I don’t care how fat someone is. I don’t care how sickly someone is. It is not right to tell someone they cannot have treatment for their illnesses. I know people that literally have to ask friends for antibiotics because they cannot afford them due to lack of insurance. My son had an ear infection. Luckily we have insurance on him. The ear drops alone would have cost 140 dollars. 140 dollars for eardrops? That is insane. Even worse people with cancer get denied because procedures are experimental. They get put off and put off until they die. It is a sad world we live in. Where is the humanity? That is why our country is going down the crapper. Nobody gives a crap about anyone any more. I don’t care if I have to pay extra money to help out people. I mean in the long run the money I would have to put in would probably equal going out to eat a few times. If that is what it costs to help prevent someone from dying I honestly do not mind paying it. I believe if we actually all made an attempt to help one another the country might repair itself. At this time everyone is out to screw over everyone. All anyone cares about are there possessions and their money. For example in our building there are also medical offices. I saw an old woman who fell and was stuck between her car and the curb. At least 10 people just walked right past her. Only me and 1 other person (another older woman) who stopped and helped her up and into the building. How sad is that? I am only 29 and I could not even imagine something like that happening when I was around 15. People are getting colder and colder and less caring. If people would start respecting one another a little more 99 percent of our countries problems would vanish. Everyone absolutely everyone deserves proper medical treatment. Maybe if it was nationalized and doctors payrolls would go down drastically the doctors that actually enjoyed helping people would train to become doctors. As of now a good portion of them don’t even care about people. They just want the paycheck.
Ok, I just have to weigh in.
Here is a fact that can NOT be denied – At some point, we are ALL going to die due to some kind of medical deficiency unless we are involved in a catastrophic accident.
So, no matter how you cut it, if healthcare becomes a “right”, and everyone has equal access …then, somebody is going to have to play God.
We can’t provide liver transplants to 99 year olds and survive as a society. So, does that 99 year old not “deserve” the best healthcare available? At what age did he change to “undeserving”? 98, 90, 81, 73, 66, 55 …where?
C’mon folks, I know you find it easy to play into the class warfare conversation, but the free market is the ONLY way to dole out healthcare without playing God. And, when people play God, they have power that nobody else has. When that happens, nothing close to fair, really happens because that person lives a “fairer” life than the others.
Just think about it a little, please? Or, have we lost that ability?
R U Serious???
That way the uninsured but seriously, possibly terminally ill can have a choice when facing unsurmountable medical bills -bankrupt your family or commit suicide legally.
what the he ll is a community organizer? I call it UNEMPLOYED!!! This idiot got elected by the TV networks buying the office for him. Getting elected does not make you smart. He is a great bull sh tter. True of most dems. I say he is unqualified to make most decisions he will make for the next four years. Health care included. He got a free ride through college on MY taxes because of his color. NOT African American BLACK. Pick a name and stay with it. I am so sick of political correctness I could puke.
Just work on the economy idiot. Break the unions building cars which cost $5,000 more due to pensions which should not exist and are not funded anyway.
HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT A RIGHT IN ANY MANNER. THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT MENTION IT? Who does not get healthcare anyway? YOu do not have insurance, you go to the emergency room costing all taxpayers twice what a doctor visit might cost for your stuffy nose. QUIT WHINING AND GET TO WORK AND THIS MESS MIGHT END!
Part of the problem is that people do not utilize medical care ENOUGH. If preventative care were covered more, if people went for an annual physical, we can stop or control medical problems before they become larger more costly issues.
And some of you are real pieces of work. I agree w/Akimbo-the healthcare costs have become outrageous, and is there no compassion left in this country? People need a hand up, not a hand out, true, and not everyone who needs help is trying to milk the system. There is genuine need in our country. It is a disgrace the number of people in our country who can’t go to the doctor, are on food stamps, are living on the streets, are dying because they can’t afford their medicine…are we not the richest country in the world?
Anyone who considers the concept of a nationalized health care system should think about this…If we do what the “community organizer” is proposing (putting pressure on the medical field to lower cost of treatments etc,)then doesn’t this sound very similar to what got us into the housing crisis we are in now??? The government thought everyone had a “RIGHT” to own a home and forced all these private banks to conform to the lending practices of Frannie and Freddie. As we have seen here, when the government gets involved with altering the free market system and forces private enterprise to change its practices, it will eventually collapse. WELCOME TO SOCIALISM AT IT’S BEST!!!
Political campaigns in the recent past have focused much attention on the 47 million Americans without health insurance (which is only about 15.5 percent of the population). But who are the uninsured in America? According to information generated by Kiplingers, found in the New York Times and also reported in InsuranceNewsNet Magazine (August 2008 edition), the uninsured breakdowns as follows:
• 8.4 million are eligible for current government programs but are not participating (for whatever reason);
• 10.2 million are not US citizens (though about 80 percent of these are here legally);
• 9.2 million are members of households with a household income of $75,000 or more. Reports are that some don’t want coverage because they are healthy and others can’t get open-market coverage due to pre-existing conditions;
• 6.9 million reside in households with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 and just don’t buy the coverage; and
• 7.5 million are between 19 and 24 and either don’t have access to healthcare, lack the money to pay for the coverage or don’t think they need coverage because they are healthy.
This totals to 42.2 million people (not all are citizens). Leaving just 4.8 million (1.6 percent of the population) truly uninsured and unaccounted for.
Who are the uninsured in America? According to information generated by Kiplingers, found in the New York Times and also reported in InsuranceNewsNet Magazine (August 2008 edition), the uninsured breakdowns as follows:
• 8.4 million are eligible for current government programs but are not participating (for whatever reason);
• 10.2 million are not US citizens (though about 80 percent of these are here legally);
• 9.2 million are members of households with a household income of $75,000 or more. Reports are that some don’t want coverage because they are healthy and others can’t get open-market coverage due to pre-existing conditions;
• 6.9 million reside in households with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 and just don’t buy the coverage; and
• 7.5 million are between 19 and 24 and either don’t have access to healthcare, lack the money to pay for the coverage or don’t think they need coverage because they are healthy.
This totals to 42.2 million people (not all are citizens). Leaving just 4.8 million (1.6 percent of the population) truly uninsured and unaccounted for.
Are you serious, D? Better preventative care is the answer?
Think about this. Who has the very best medical treatment available? Answer – Presidents of the US. Does anyone have better medical attention? And, the coverage continues after they leave office, right?
Well, son of a gun, guess what? They will still die of a medical condition of some sort. They are NOT living past 150 years of age, are they? Eventually, they are going to cost massive amounts of money, to continue to treat them. So, you put off that treatment for 10 years because you eat so well and the doctor sees you every quarter? The end result is still the same, and still expensive, even if the cost was shifted a few years.
I’m not saying this is a bad idea individually, but I am saying this will not solve any major problems in the end.
There ARE genuine needs in our country. There ARE genuine needs in EVERY country, and there always will be. Our forefathers set out to form a “more perfect union”, not THE perfect union. There can be NO “perfect union”. There can be no “perfect” lives. There are some problems that are NOT solvable in this world.
I’m sorry if your parents didn’t teach you the realities of life. Maybe they were too busy not spanking, and letting you do anything you wanted to do. I can see how growing up in that kind of environment would end in a belief that government (the pseudo step-parent) owes you anything you THINK you need. And, if you don’t get it, then just throw a little trantrum. Blame your situation on God, or selfishness, or just the total unfairness of it all.
C’mon, you know that’s right!
Get over yourselves, and do some serious soul-searching and maybe some study of history.
The reason people left “civilization” as it was known and came to this land that was forming a country was not because they wanted to be taken care of so perfectly. It was not because of the healthcare or the minimum wage it could guarantee. It was not because of the fairness that was available.
Why did they come? Because of the OPPORTUNITY and the FREEDOM the very tough decision offered. And, yes, it was a VERY tough decision. It would be like going to live on Mars today. Would you leave everything you have, travel for 10 years in a craft that wasn’t guaranteed to make it, only to find a land with nothing familiar and the likelihood of never being able to come back? I can only guess what you would do, but the opportunity and freedom were just enough for some.
Opportunities are not guarantees. They are not fair. They ARE what you make of them.
Freedom doesn’t mean you can get away with anything and everything, but it does mean the government, the king, the dictator, or whatever, is not on your proverbial back. They do NOT control your life.
Freedom and Opportunity beats guarantees and control anytime, I assure you. Otherwise, nobody would have left their friends, family, and the land where they grew up to cross a perilous sea and get off a rickety ship into the arms of an unknown and savage land. They didn’t even know if they were going to be able to feed themselves, much less worry about whether they were going to continue their supply of their Prozac of the time.
Why would we want to spit on our forefathers wisdom, and wish for the solutions of the past? Because life doesn’t seem “fair” enough?
What whiners we have become!
Maybe we are getting what we deserve? A hippy, peacenik, drugged up, and socialist/communist, daddy-government-knows-best world. Is that what we want? Some of us do, for certain.
As for me, I think we would be better off if we spent more time forging a life for ourselves, by ourselves, instead of preoccupying our minds with gathering toys, having sex (homo or hetero) with multiple partners, keeping up with totally unimportant lives, star/pop-culture lives, and focusing on how others should live their lives.
Forming better individuals is the only way of forming a better society, and that’s what America has always done best, and that’s why there have always been far, far more people that want to come to this country, than want to leave.
I hope things stay that way…
And who else are we going to exclude? How about people who need transplants? How about anyone over 65?
When you put one government buearcracy in charge, people are going to be excluded. When will the government decide that treating someone’s health issues is no longer cost-effective? Remember, you’re putting your healthcare in the care of the same people who are bankrupting social security. Giving benefits to illegal aliens and taking away from the people who actully contribute to society.
the conversation about Socializing our country. Rather you want to focus on passionate statements alluding to how hard hearted one must be if they don’t agree that government is the answer to any and all problems. How can you abide those poor folks on food stamps, she asks.
Well, I donated the food stamps, so I feel good about that.
Let me put it another way. You know the flowery op-ed I just submitted to the New York Times? Well, in it I just tell everyone to ignore my cowardly acts of domestic terrorism. After all, like OJ, I meant no harm. Never mind I still give speeches on foreign soil denouncing my country. As long as I tell you, here, how sorry I am, what else matters? Because I know, D, you won’t dig too deep into ANY ISSUE, so why would you apply any analysis to what I have decided I want you to think about me now? You will think what you are told to think.
47 million people without health insurance. Most insured people receive coverage through their employers . Okay what will happen to people being lay off??? Health Insurance, maybe if we get the insurance out of the health the overhauling will not be so hard
And …give peace a chance.
Actually, if we got the socialism out of both Republicans and Democrat politicians, maybe the problems would be much easier to solve.
If people weren’t paying half of what they earn in taxes, so politicians can spend our money on things they think are fair, maybe we would all have the money needed to pay for our healthcare …with or without insurance.
I had an aunt who was very dear to me become a victim of our current health care system. She was 61 years old and diagnosed with a malignant tumor wrapped around her kidney. I accompanied her to the offices of two specialists who, during her appointments, focused only on one issue. That issue was why she didn’t have health insurance at her age and position in life. We explained the fact that her husband had retired from truck driving prior to her health condition and lost his insurance benefits. As she was too young for medicare and had too many assets, barely, to qualify for medicaid, she was shuttled from one doctor to another until she was so ill that she was scheduled for surgery with a surgeon that had NEVER PERFORMED this delicate procedure and, after cutting a main artery she died on the operating table. What a tragedy!
There was a time, in the early 70s, that health insurance was provided by Daily Room Benefit and Hospital/Surgical Schedule Riders. The benefits averaged $50-$100 per day in the hospital with reasonable limits for Surgical and Miscellaneous Expenses. It was affordable and hospitals rarely charged in excess of what people were covered for. One of the major insurance companies, Mutual of Omaha, developed a worderful marketing idea. They called it Major Medical coverage. Instead of limiting the client to a DRB and Surgical Schedule, they provided a program that paid, after a small deductible, medical charges based on what a doctor and hospital charged. You had a cost share arrangement, coinsurance, but the patient’s liability was really quite small. What a brilliant way to market medical security. Only one problem. It didn’t take the health care industry long to figure out that whatever they charged would be paid. The result was ever increasing premiums to cover the ever increasing costs. A blank check for the hospitals meant multiple MRI facilities within walking distance of each other and duplication of services that were billed to the consumer, paid by insurance carriers and then AGAIN passed on to the consumer. As premiums went up, commissions became huge and then premiums had to go up even more. Seem like a self-defeating cycle? In essence, what has destroyed the affordability of the health care system is the very group of organizations that professed to give us security in health care affordability. When will the insanity end?
To all who support this,
1) there is no such thing as free health care, someone has to pay the bills
2) to the bleeding heart socialist the will respond “the government should pay for it” you and me FUND the government so we are STILL paying for it.
3) Congrats to the socialist, this is the first step towards a socialist america. Whimps! get off you butt stop waiting for the government to do everything for you and go do it for yourself.
Do you have any connection to or knowledge of the insurance industry? Huge commissions? Not likely. Ask a few of the agents who post on this site about the huge commissions.
Healthcare is a privalege for those who pay for it, not a right for those who do not pay for it. Health care costs have skyrocketed due to jackpot litigation. Lawsuits have caused doctors to order tests simply to help avoid litigation. The high cost of medical malpractice insurance is passed on to the doctors’ patients. This leads to higher costs for medical procedures. It is our own stupidity for allowing jackpot lawsuits to suck money out of the system. We need nationwide litigation caps on non-financial damages (loss of companionship, emotional distress, etc.)
I think it is crazy how Americans are more than willing to pay many thousands of dollars for a car, truck, television, etc. and yet we complain about paying a couple thousand for taking care of our health. Our priorities are really messed up!
I am sorry about your aunt.
That is a terrible shame.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING A HEART. And in response to “nobody important”, I certainly do have experience and knowledge of the history of health insurance. In the mid-80’s health insurance companies were paying 27% of the first year annualized premium to agents for selling major medical. I was in upper management of one of those companies so I certainly know what I am talking about. I was also referring to the process that has driven up the rates for health insurance and costs of medical care. Open your eyes and not your mouth. To the person who said that insurance is a privilege, tell that to people that have had it for 40 years and are now losing it due to unaffordability. Insurance is a commodity that should be priced as a profitable product for a reasonable price so that it fulfills a purpose, not something that is subsidized by the state governments so that insurance company executives can pad their pockets with golden parachutes and multi-million dollar salaries.
Health Care is a commodity (dr, hospital, etc) and Health Insurance (transfer of risk) is a Privilege. Most of us have that mixed up thinking that its the insurance industry’s fault for the cost of service. We need many more Dr’s flooding the commodity market to make quick and less expensive Health Care available.
I have a great deal of sympathy for those losing their insurance. My daughter is losing hers soon, but that has nothing to do with this article. It has to do with my comments or the business of insurance however. You comment on high commissions and I don’t believe the commissions are anywhere near the level you state in your post. Times change and so do commission and the change is down. In my opinion the cost of the insurance is driven far more by the incredible increases in the cost of medical care. If you have a solution to that problem you better post it since you will win the Nobel Prize. When I post a comment it’s not a social comment. It’s meant to be in the sense that this is an insurance busines magazine site. I’m not being harsh, I thing that if I wanted to read Oprah or Dr. Phil topics I would go to their web site.
There needs to be a disconnect between one’s employment status and one’s healthcare status. With the economy the way it is, this is becoming more and more apparent. Whatever is necessary to break this bondage, and make it so that people will continue to have health insurance, at a reasonable cost, with out without employment– this should be the priority in any reform model.
Nobel Prize.News • December 5, 2008
President-elect Barack Obama has begun laying the groundwork for overhauling the troubled U.S. healthcare system, reaching out to interest groups and building grass-roots support for the huge …
would you please tell me how my anut story has nothing to do with this story and I GIVE YOU Nobel Prize. aND YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO TELL Oprah or Dr. Phil ABOUT YOUR SO CALL… GREAT INDUSTRY
To Heartbreaker:
In a socialized system like Britain they probably would have made the decision that your aunt was too ill for her age and that the limited resources of the NHS would be best served treating the cancer of a younger patient.
Yes, our system is rife with corruption, costs are out of control, and there are people without health care, or with poor quality or limited heath care.
But the sad truth that noone wants to acknowledge is these will be facts under any system. We have something like a 10 trillion dollar debt. We don’t make anything, our population is aging, and we are getting dumber with flailing education system.
Anyone who tells you we will all magically have great healthcare is blowing smoke up your derriere. It won’t get better, it will get worse, with the disparity becoming more evident w/ wealthy receiving health care and poor receiving none. Or, we’ll get a socialized (and equally, or more, corrupt) system that replaces wealth disparity with unilateral authoritarian decisions about your medical care doled out by an uncaring govermental entity with a shrinking budget.
Ain’t it a bright future?
that its the insurance industry’s fault less expensive Health Care available.
The insurance mechanism is a business that passes along the costs of the product. I just don’t see the vast profits in the insurance industry that you insurance company critics seem to think are involved. I do object to any takover of private enterprise by a governmental fiat. Government will not do it better or more equitably. Government bureaucrats are even less responsive than private business red tape pushers. As with any government program the costs will be many times any estimate and we will be forced to do with much less health care in the future. Government is not more efficient than private enterprise. Business generally has to stay lean to make a profit and be competitive. Government has no incentive to stay lean. Layer on layer of unending red tape will be added to an overbloated system because government has no incentive to reduce costs. We will all lose. By the way, the Nobel Prize lost any meaning to me a long time ago. The Jimmy Carter and Al Gore awards just nailed that coffin shut.
would you let a poor animal live in pain? REALLY
I wouldn’t and don’t allow my pets to suffer. Do we need a governmental health care plan for pets now? Oh, you mean to ridicule me. How clever. Now the government will be able to eliminate suffering and death. Pretty ambitious plan. I wish Obama the best here, but in the end the cost of this will be beyond reason. Government agencies do not care about costs. Have you ever been to a caring governmental agency? The IRS and Social Security Adminstration certainly are helping and generous people. Think of the IRS of health care agencies. Lovely thought. I wish the solution was as easy as government mandates that everybody is healed and healthy and nobody ever suffers. In the end this will be just another bankrupt governmental boondoggle.
what about your daughter
beyond reason.
Heartbreaker-
I am sorry for your loss, but since your aunt didn’t qualify for a gov’t program, she neglected to buy insurance? Is that the point of your story?
You never mentioned whether she could afford some sort of private insurance, which leads me to believe that she just neglected to buy it.
How does that further any point made on this board? Why should I as a tax payer take on the burden of your aunt’s neglect? And how would national healthcare have prevneted to accident that lead to her death? I guess I don’t understand the point of your story…
I believe we have a single whiner making multiple named posts.
You have summed it up in a nutshell, but the nutball will never get it. Things happen and all wrongs will never be righted, all pain will never be relieved, all intellectual shortfalls will never be successfully educated …in this world.
Finally, I think the chances of this poster ever having been in the upper managment of a major medical insurance company are nearly nill. There is simply no way. He would have to cut his hair and take a bath.
Humane Society . SHE COULD NOT WORK HER BODY WAS IN PAIN AND SHE WAS FIGHTING FOR HER LIFE
Opps.
It IS broken. I am no fan of national health, but at least someone is taking a crack at it.
Ok, I could be wrong, but I don’t think anyone has suggested that the system in general couldn’t use some changes to make it better.
I don’t think any, but a VERY few, don’t feel badly for all the horror stories that could be interjected into this conversation.
As a matter of fact, my mother has been forced to use medicaid, and it was no fun. She’s now on medicare, which is just a little better. My father had a heart attack in the early 80’s and the blood he received in his open heart surgery was contaminated with hepatitis that eventually led to his death ten years later at the age of 63. There is nothing more fun than watching your dad die in a hospital bed of renal failure, which means you basically drown to death. I did that. Do I wish some things had worked out differently – of course. But, we all die. It is rarely, if ever, painless, but it will happen to all of us one way or another. All balanced human beings feel bad in those times. But, feelings are one thing and facts are quite another.
Where you are hearing major turmoil on this board and around the country is over the Socialistic solution of letting the government take it over. There is no possible way that is going to solve any of these problems at all …period. In fact, it will ONLY make them worse.
Now, for somebody to flipantly say that at least Obama is trying something is just not an intelligent response. I have a 4 and a 5 year old in my family. I also have a teenager. Feeling my pain yet? All of them seem to know how to solve SO MANY problems. It’s amazing how stupid us parents really are.
Now, if you could ask them after they tell you how things should work, I’ll bet you could get the very same response. Somthing about “trying” it. Does that make them correct? Does that mean we should try it their way when we know better?
Unfortunately, there will be some that post on this board that probably will honestly say yes. And …that’s where the biggest problem is with society. Over grown children that just want somebody to take care of them. Well, it just doesn’t work that way, no matter how noble the feeling and no matter how fervent the desire.
Universal healthcare just means everyone one is covered.It doesnot have mean government run, and consumers have no choice. Federal employees have numerous choices and the most important component is no one is excluded for pre-existing conditions. All Americans who do not have coverage should be able to join the federal healthcare plan. The coverage is better and cheaper because of size of plan. This does not mean the government pays premiums. We are not talking about a free lunch, just a better lunch at a lower cost.
Well, Papabear, if that were what we were discussing, I would give it a semi-cool maybe. However, you need to click on “back to article” and read the entire first paragraph. Hell, read the whole article.
Why would you need to “build grass roots support” for such a “huge undertaking” if all we’re talking about is opening up the Federal plan to all citizens?
Besides a very few in the insurance industry, who is going to complain about that? Why would that be such a huge undertaking if the answer is so damn simple?
Answer – that’s not what the Socialists want to do. They want to take over healthcare so they become even more powerful. So their influence is worth even more when people come to buy it.
They need to make it as “complicated as possible” so that only an elite few can possibly have the answers. Just like they did with the “tremendously complicated” financial crisis …so they could spend nearly a trillion dollars (750 billion and climbing) and …son of a gun, we’re still in a completely undesirable financial situation. We’re just a trillion dollars poorer than we were yesterday.
The only difference in the end with the finanical crises and the medical crisis, will be the few new faces that profit from the new program.
Right?
That’s how government today works. That’s why we need to slice all of the non-constitutional malarky that the government has slowly foisted on all of us and go back to a free nation, where government stays out of our lives and only does the minimum required by the constitution. Then, you would be amazed at how much capital would be back in the system and how we could once again afford lots of things we need as a people.
Amen. precisely.
there may very well be a need for “a” change…but, socialized “national” health care is not the answer.
when i call my dr’s office now, it takes me 3 days to get an appt sometime… stop and THINK for a second how long it would take to get in if health care was free and available to everyone all the time. it would be abused [see housing market example] and end up being worse than it is now.
think outside the box all you “grassrooters” there has to be another solution.
hence, the movement toward consumer-driven health plans (high deductibles) with Health Savings Accounts.
THIS is a solution.
The health insurance biz is not my focus, but I do think the HSA concept is definitely a great start. It has got to cost people money to go to the doctor; otherwise as a previous post indicated, the offices will be so clogged we’ll never get timely care.
Let people put cash aside that can be used for healthcare, and if not, use it for retirement income. Let that continue to be deductible like an IRA.
As I said, this is a great start.
That’s the easiest part. Getting the uninsured people properly categorized and covered in some manner is the tricky part.
All I do know is the government needs to be as out of the equation as possible. Perhaps they could provide some kind of financial backstop for the health care companies when they take on those riskier uninsured folks. But, then you open up the gates to fraud a little wider.
There has to be a better solution than the government-care-card. Look at FEMA …you are going to be hard-pressed to find a more mismanaged operation. Multiply those problems by tens of thousands, and you’ll begin to see the future problems of socialized medicine.
Of course the age-old rebuttal from the big-government crowd is that the socialist solution has only failed in the past because the right people weren’t running it. Well, guess what, there will never be the “right people” for that task. That’s an unattainable goal when humans are part of the equation. As of now, humans are an irreplaceable element.
Every obstacle presents an opportunity to improve our condition.
I did read article and never saw the word socialize medicine. We need to lower healthcare cost or our business will not be able to compete -“The United States now spends more on healthcare than any other developed nation, yet has some 47 million people without health insurance. Most insured people receive coverage through their employers but businesses complain that exploding costs threaten their competitiveness in a global market.
Since business or government are paying for workers healthcare workers for those who have coverage workers have not receive higher wages.
Also those in medical profession have restricted entry into field by reducing the number of medical schools and as a result are able to raise prices.Many Doctors in Florida now will not except insurance. You pay them up front $1500 to be their patient and you process the paper work as a out of system doctor which cost consumers more money. Doctors are making more money this way with less patients.This is the way of the future if system is not changed.
Rights and Health
What is the Human Right to Health?
Every woman, man, youth and child has the human right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health, without discrimination of any kind. Enjoyment of the human right to health is vital to all aspects of a person’s life and well-being, and is crucial to the realization of many other fundamental human rights and freedoms
The United States HAS Insurance FOR ALL THE BOYS IN THE HOUSE WHO PAYS FOR ALL OF THAT. LET THEM PAY FOR Insurance . I WOULD BE GLAD TO HAVE THEM GIVE IT UP AND GIVE IT TO THE POOR.. WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE IT WHEN OTHERS DO WITH OUT?
Wow …did you think that up all by yourself, or was it proclaimed by the World Court?
I would contend that you could insert anything, and I mean anything, into that syrupy dribble.
What about security, food, transportation, accumulation of wealth, global warming, education, cleanliness, vegetarianism, religion, noisy neighbors, fleas on my dog. What else?
So, the government should control everything that could fall under the umbrella of your utopist vision, huh? Sounds like Animal Farm to me. I can’t wait to be a happy pig.
Here’s a reality check …what you have described is exactly what the American medical system has provided, if you think about it. Health has been dramatically improved in the past century. Dramatically! And, it was done without government intervention, if you can possibly believe it.
Now, the question …what is the highest attainable? That would indicate that there are limits. Do you want to be limited by the system that has been in place over the past 100 years, or do you want to be limited by some pencil-necked bureaucrat that’s going to decide how to dole out your healthcare.
I would implore anybody that believes the government can do it better, to research the successes of FEMA. I just saw a new story in Houston yesterday about a family that was still living in tents since hurricane Ike. They have been approved for a FEMA trailer, many weeks ago, but nearly 3 months later, it’s still not there. The news crew interviewed the FEMA representative, and being the judgmental sort that I am, I saw a hippy-era, mediocre individual, that’s found a government job that’s way over their head. If she didn’t/doesn’t smoke pot, I would be shocked.
I’d bet serious money that she’s not the only one, and in fact I’ll bet it’s rampant in ANY government department.
Have you ever taken a trip down to the Social Security office and tried to get anything done? What are your feelings about your Homeowners Associations or Deed Boards, or whatever you have?
If you have had any contact with these types, you will not have had a great experience, and it won’t be any different with a Department of Health representative that’s going to decide whether you are worthy of gall stone surgery. And, the term Czar is SO very correct.
Competition is the only way to get the best. Yes, that means sometimes you get a loser, but 100 years of progress can’t be refuted. How many advances have come out of Cuba in the same time period?
Bailout in economics and finance is a term used to describe a situation where a bankrupt or nearly bankrupt entity, such as a corporation or a bank, is given a fresh injection of liquidity, in order to meet its short-term obligations. Often bailouts are by governments, or by consortia of investors who demand control over the entity as the price for injecting funds.
It cost more when people do not have INSURANCE.
AIG Owes $10 Billion for Soured Trades, Wall Street Journal Reports… dole out your healthcare.
umbrella of your utopist vision, huh?I can’t wait to be a happy pig.