Ok It looks like we are getting closer and closer to be a socialist disaster, oops, I mean a democratic disaster. Let’s call it “freedom”. We should enjoy it before big brother start making our cars and suggesting us what is the best insurance to buy. It feels like we are about to score a touchdown in the opposite direction and wonder why no one is clapping.
Well I was celebrating the fact that I just got my 2-15 license. It seems that some socialist decided to put water on my champagne. Uh that doesn’t taste very good Mr. President.
By the way, does anyone know what would be a good health insurance company to start my career?
True health care reform offering a dual system option allowing people well served by private systems to use them, and a second option with free public care, sales tax funded, for everyone who would choose to use public care, would leave no one behind without care, and if all government funded programs were distributed through the public system cost containment and outcomes would be enhanced, and it would cost less than the $2.4 trillion dollars we spend annually for our current systems.
America’s Veteran Administration is the largest, lowest cost; best outcome producing at any cost, health care delivery system in the US, it uses the world’s best medical software, and it has been controlling the problems with access, cost, quality, and malpractice successfully for years.
A civilian version of this is needed to serve those who have not been inadequately served by our present systems.
Dispensing health care efficiently, and collecting the money to pay for it cheaply, that’s the purpose of the exercise, and no one can compete with the government at these two tasks, no insurance company, HMO, or hospital, nobody.
For individuals; selecting public care; all prescribed care and medications would be free, no insurance, no co pays, no precondition exceptions, free period, no more worries about acquiring, or how to pay for health care.
For businesses large and small; choosing the public care option would free them from all financial burdens or any involvement in any way for the health services their employees receive, whether it’s a one truck plumber or General Motors, they can forget about health care and go back to building their businesses.
For private insurance and care providers; they would no longer be required to subsidize indigent and precondition patients; they could compete more freely for patients who would prefer to use their private systems for care.
The private care option; would allow individuals or businesses the unlimited choice of doctors, clinics, hospitals, timing, and treatments, Ford Fiesta or Rolls-Royce, but it would require the user to pay privately for their health services, either by self pay, company pay, private insurance, whatever, but any government funded programs should only be distributed through the new national system to assure cost control and outcomes.
A robust private insurance and care delivery system; with unlimited services available to anyone willing to purchase them, unrestricted by any government interventions, is critical to maintaining private care’s viability.
Only government; can lower costs sufficiently, while maintaining high quality outcome results, to care for individuals poorly served by our current systems.
K Street nightmare reform; that would force people to pay good money, to purchase questionable insurance, to participate in a care system that has failed so many, dose not give lower costs or better care for all.
Should a Federal health care reform pass… why has there been little discussion regarding its potential impact on Workers Comp? I see countless potential impacts.
BillWatson: the only correct thing in your rambling, Marxist blabber is your comment: “…no one can compete with the government…nobody”…please move to Canada or Cuba
That’s right, if you disagree with someone, instead of making legitimate arguments on your differing opinion, tell the person you disagree with to move out of the country.
Obviously a Republican who can’t make a logical argument so, instead, resorts to calling names and probably stamping his feet. Hard to get anything accomplished with that attitude.
Bill had a lot of really intelligent things to say. NPG, however, did not.
It is time to get real. Do you really believe government will manage national health care efficiently?? cheaply?? You said high quality?? Have you dealt with the social security department, irs, post office or any other government entity lately? Please tell me you don’t really REALLY believe all this.
Can somebody pleae tell me if the Feds and the States, and the counties are all going to opt for this new public healthcare coverage in as much as they are shoving this down our throats again. Right now all of them come under PERS which I believe is 100% coverage, so if this new healthcare for all comes into play, then I say put them all on it and see how much taxpayer money we save. Anybody want to bet on this?
Bill: You comment about the VA being “largest, lowest cost; best outcome producing at any cost, health care delivery system in the US, it uses the world’s best medical software, and it has been controlling the problems with access, cost, quality, and malpractice successfully for years.” I would bet that you have never had to depend on VA medical benefits, never had to be admitted in a VA hospital that was a joke in their facilities, underpaid/overworked staff, waiting huge periods of time for simple procedures and never being able to talk to the same doctor twice — my family has been through that nightmare. If you are using the VA as the “best of the best” and all should be using it, then we are really in for frightening times.
So the industry that has taken our health care system to one of the worst among industrialized nations is now worried about the consumer? NO! They are worried about their commissions from the monster that they have created. Curious; maybe we should have insurance plans to offer police response in case our homes are broken into or insurance for a fire dept to respond to our health or property emergency. I hope everyone of the scumbag HMOs goes broke!
God forbid a company would want to make a profit on their business. Do you even know the actual profit margin of insurance companies. I doubt you know anything more about the subject than the liberal web sites have told you. Business people are all greedy. Let’s just keep nationalizing the various industries until they are all government run. Certainly the know all government bureaucrats can run any business better that private industry? Do away with private industry entirely.
In response to the person who claims government can not do anything well. SS and Medicare seem to function well. Never hear many compliants from people receiving benefits. Postal system also works well. For .44 cents, they’ll pickup and deliver mail anywhere in US. Personally, rearly ever have a piece of mail get lost. VA system also functions well. Problems are the result of under funding, not delivery cost. Have two friends who get treated by VA, both speak highly of services. Penal system, education, public library systems are all “socialized”. All seem to run pretty well. I thought the idea was to enbrace competion and give options. If a gov’t system doesn’t work, the private systems will still do well. If not, may the best system win.
Just because the people receiving benefits don’t complain about SS or Medicare (which they do by the way) does NOT mean the system works well.
Some of our policies ask the nature of someone’s disability. When I ask our insureds I have gotten answers such as “I don’t remember what I put on that form” or “I’m on disability because I don’t remember stuff good”… so thats where our tax dollars are going. People who can’t work because they don’t remember things?
I also have insureds who are receiving disability payments but still work 39 hours a week at a real job (if they worked 40 the gov’t would pull their check) or have their own lawncare business that works on cash only so that it won’t interfere with their disability check.
Then we have insureds who were married but have since divorced and still live together. They tell me the reason they did this was because they both receive larger checks if they’re not married.
All this goes on for YEARS without any consequences from the gov’t because no one checks on it– no one follows up. Once they’re on disability they’re golden, checks roll in no questions asked.
Then we’ve got folks who are really and truly disabled due to illness or injury and it takes them years to get their benefits and they have to fight every step of the way.
I’m not talking about one or two cases here, all of this is widespread in the system. This outrages me, and it should outrage any tax payer to see their neighbors work the system to obtain the money that we bust our tails to earn.
Any “underfunding” of a government system is a direct result of mismanagement of funds, not insufficient funds coming in. Government as a whole does not use our tax dollars efficiently– to them its monopoly money and they can do whatever they like with it. The fat cats don’t care because they’ve got plenty of cash.
I used to be a bleeding heart liberal until I realized that we have to view the world as it is and not as we would like it to be. Idealism versus Realism. GHC along with many other government programs look great on paper, but when put into action the human element comes into play and people will find a way to work/corrupt the system. It happens every time.
So I guess the gov’t should not propose any solutions to our current HC mess. If people die due to lack of coverage, to bad! Seems every other industialized county seem to deal with it. By the way, the Frecnch system (which is always rated the #1 system in the world) is a blending of government and private insurance, much like what our system would look like if we adopt a gov’t option. Further you critize gov’t for user abuse while seeming to assume that private business is stain free. Billions of dollars are paid by private insurance companies due to fraud. Corporate scandals occur almost daily. People are greedy and some will try to abuse any system regardless of the sponsor. We can’t just say well, someone will take advantage or the fix is not perfect so we shouldn’t do anything to fix a broken system. With that attitude we’d never try to fix anything. By the way, imagine this country without SS and Medicare. I’d rather not, it’d a disaster.
I’m simply stating that government is far from efficient in anything they do. I believe we need health care reform, but I do not believe that having government take over the healthcare system is the answer. I believe that goverment and private industry must work together to solve the problem. I refuse to blindly trust our government to do the right thing, because they won’t.
If government is going to take on the responsibility of dispensing disability payments then they have a duty to monitor the system. I believe the disability system is mismanaged, both operationally and financially.
I am not sure what led you to infer that I think private industry is stain free. My intent was to indicate that human nature leads to greed and corruption. Private industry is run by humans, therefore human nature would have a similar impact in that arena.
As far as our contry with out the SS or Medicare system, keep it– just let me opt out. I am 32 years old and have been working and paying taxes since I was 16. I do not believe the SS system will be there when I am old enough to collect. I refuse to rely on the gov’t to fund my retirement. I believe I can manage my money better than the government.
If the gov’t would let me sign off on it today, I would sign in a heartbeat saying that I will never try to collect benefits as long as they’ll stop making me pay for it. I’ll sign off on SS benefits, disability benefits, even sign off saying my kids would not try to collect survivor benefits if I were taken from them. I will do this because I am confident in my ability to provide for myself and my family.
“So I guess the gov’t should not propose any solutions to our current HC mess”
The term healthcare mess gets thrown around as if an exhaustive study has been done and the science is settled that we have a crisis, and the Gov’t must respond. Sure there problems, but a widespread crisis?
A Gov’t solution would be to cut someone a check if they want to buy their own insurance and can’t afford it. They buy the insurance, the gov’t pays the premium, no one else is affected. What is being proposed will eventually lead to a Gov’t takeover, which is what they seem to want. The ramifications will be widespread. Look at places where doctors want to go cash only and provide their own programs to help their patients with the cost. In NY, the Gov’t stepped in to try and shut down a doctor who wanted to offer a monthly fee for unlimited service. Ultimately they forced him to charge a copay for any nonpreventative service, even though he determined he could get by with just the monthly, and it’s his business and he should be able to run it as he sees fit.
The Gov’t doesn’t just want to offer a competing service for those who can’t afford private insurance, they want to create a system where everyone is forced to be engaged and under Gov’t control for their healthcare.
America is turning fast to fascist ideas. The New Deal and the Great Society are coming back again. One of those brought us the great depression.
Well, we view the world completely differently. I’m glad that you have sufficent abilties that you feel you’ll never need Uncle to assist you in any way. However, if we as a Nation had this mind set, we would not have a strong middle class and we’d have countless elderly living and dying in the streets.
Two things (“socialized” gov’t programs) lead to the explosion of the middle class after WWII. 1. The GI Bill allowed millions to attend college who otherwise would never had been able to do so; and 2. SS and Medicare allowed millions of elderly to live independant and be somewhat self-supporting. This in turn allowed their children (that would be you) to save for your kids college and live a comfortable lifestyle without the burden of caring for elderly parents. This burden is shifted to the gov’t. I understand this because my grandparent’s were forced to separate with each moving in with one of their children in the pre-SS era. They could no longer work and had no income.
Personally, I’m 63 and very much will be appreciative my SS benefits. While I have saved all my life and will draw a pension, SS and Medicare will be a key elements of my retirement.
Conservatives need to look beyond themselves and understand that each person is not an island. As much as you may think you are, you arrived where you becasue of parents, teachers, and others molded you and allowed you to become sucessful. Not everyone has these luxuries.
Please don’t condescend. I worked for most everything I have, including my education and current health insurance.
I agree that SS was necessary at one point in time, and if we are delving into a history lesson please keep in mind that SS was not intended to be a permanent program.
I am glad that the SS benefits are/will be available for you to collect, and if I were in your position I would not reject those funds either. We are certainly in different positions, but that does not mean that one of us is wrong or only cares about themselves. It simply means that based on our different experiences and positions in life, we have different opinions on the topic.
I would love to be able to help every person in the world who needs it, but that just isn’t possible. I don’t think I am an island, but I will take care of my family first, not sacrifice my family’s health and security for the greater good.
Hey, I am not sure who is right or wrong, but I think we are all adults. Why is it difficult to have a discussion or debate? Is it necessary to be so mean and childish.
Who knows… will WC remain sole remedy? Will Employers Liability be more of an issue? Should a single payer system be written, or any system which provides a government option, wipe out a need for medical payments???
Ok It looks like we are getting closer and closer to be a socialist disaster, oops, I mean a democratic disaster. Let’s call it “freedom”. We should enjoy it before big brother start making our cars and suggesting us what is the best insurance to buy. It feels like we are about to score a touchdown in the opposite direction and wonder why no one is clapping.
Well I was celebrating the fact that I just got my 2-15 license. It seems that some socialist decided to put water on my champagne. Uh that doesn’t taste very good Mr. President.
By the way, does anyone know what would be a good health insurance company to start my career?
Look at what happened to the auto execs when they flew in. Better to drive, even if cross country, doncha think?
True health care reform offering a dual system option allowing people well served by private systems to use them, and a second option with free public care, sales tax funded, for everyone who would choose to use public care, would leave no one behind without care, and if all government funded programs were distributed through the public system cost containment and outcomes would be enhanced, and it would cost less than the $2.4 trillion dollars we spend annually for our current systems.
America’s Veteran Administration is the largest, lowest cost; best outcome producing at any cost, health care delivery system in the US, it uses the world’s best medical software, and it has been controlling the problems with access, cost, quality, and malpractice successfully for years.
A civilian version of this is needed to serve those who have not been inadequately served by our present systems.
Dispensing health care efficiently, and collecting the money to pay for it cheaply, that’s the purpose of the exercise, and no one can compete with the government at these two tasks, no insurance company, HMO, or hospital, nobody.
For individuals; selecting public care; all prescribed care and medications would be free, no insurance, no co pays, no precondition exceptions, free period, no more worries about acquiring, or how to pay for health care.
For businesses large and small; choosing the public care option would free them from all financial burdens or any involvement in any way for the health services their employees receive, whether it’s a one truck plumber or General Motors, they can forget about health care and go back to building their businesses.
For private insurance and care providers; they would no longer be required to subsidize indigent and precondition patients; they could compete more freely for patients who would prefer to use their private systems for care.
The private care option; would allow individuals or businesses the unlimited choice of doctors, clinics, hospitals, timing, and treatments, Ford Fiesta or Rolls-Royce, but it would require the user to pay privately for their health services, either by self pay, company pay, private insurance, whatever, but any government funded programs should only be distributed through the new national system to assure cost control and outcomes.
A robust private insurance and care delivery system; with unlimited services available to anyone willing to purchase them, unrestricted by any government interventions, is critical to maintaining private care’s viability.
Only government; can lower costs sufficiently, while maintaining high quality outcome results, to care for individuals poorly served by our current systems.
K Street nightmare reform; that would force people to pay good money, to purchase questionable insurance, to participate in a care system that has failed so many, dose not give lower costs or better care for all.
It is time to get real.
Should a Federal health care reform pass… why has there been little discussion regarding its potential impact on Workers Comp? I see countless potential impacts.
BillWatson: the only correct thing in your rambling, Marxist blabber is your comment: “…no one can compete with the government…nobody”…please move to Canada or Cuba
That’s right, if you disagree with someone, instead of making legitimate arguments on your differing opinion, tell the person you disagree with to move out of the country.
Obviously a Republican who can’t make a logical argument so, instead, resorts to calling names and probably stamping his feet. Hard to get anything accomplished with that attitude.
Bill had a lot of really intelligent things to say. NPG, however, did not.
Geez NPG- I bet you’re barrel of fun at a party- god forbid someone has a different point of view- Move to Cuba/Canada? Grow up…..
Bill,
It is time to get real. Do you really believe government will manage national health care efficiently?? cheaply?? You said high quality?? Have you dealt with the social security department, irs, post office or any other government entity lately? Please tell me you don’t really REALLY believe all this.
Can somebody pleae tell me if the Feds and the States, and the counties are all going to opt for this new public healthcare coverage in as much as they are shoving this down our throats again. Right now all of them come under PERS which I believe is 100% coverage, so if this new healthcare for all comes into play, then I say put them all on it and see how much taxpayer money we save. Anybody want to bet on this?
Bill: You comment about the VA being “largest, lowest cost; best outcome producing at any cost, health care delivery system in the US, it uses the world’s best medical software, and it has been controlling the problems with access, cost, quality, and malpractice successfully for years.” I would bet that you have never had to depend on VA medical benefits, never had to be admitted in a VA hospital that was a joke in their facilities, underpaid/overworked staff, waiting huge periods of time for simple procedures and never being able to talk to the same doctor twice — my family has been through that nightmare. If you are using the VA as the “best of the best” and all should be using it, then we are really in for frightening times.
So the industry that has taken our health care system to one of the worst among industrialized nations is now worried about the consumer? NO! They are worried about their commissions from the monster that they have created. Curious; maybe we should have insurance plans to offer police response in case our homes are broken into or insurance for a fire dept to respond to our health or property emergency. I hope everyone of the scumbag HMOs goes broke!
God forbid a company would want to make a profit on their business. Do you even know the actual profit margin of insurance companies. I doubt you know anything more about the subject than the liberal web sites have told you. Business people are all greedy. Let’s just keep nationalizing the various industries until they are all government run. Certainly the know all government bureaucrats can run any business better that private industry? Do away with private industry entirely.
In response to the person who claims government can not do anything well. SS and Medicare seem to function well. Never hear many compliants from people receiving benefits. Postal system also works well. For .44 cents, they’ll pickup and deliver mail anywhere in US. Personally, rearly ever have a piece of mail get lost. VA system also functions well. Problems are the result of under funding, not delivery cost. Have two friends who get treated by VA, both speak highly of services. Penal system, education, public library systems are all “socialized”. All seem to run pretty well. I thought the idea was to enbrace competion and give options. If a gov’t system doesn’t work, the private systems will still do well. If not, may the best system win.
Just because the people receiving benefits don’t complain about SS or Medicare (which they do by the way) does NOT mean the system works well.
Some of our policies ask the nature of someone’s disability. When I ask our insureds I have gotten answers such as “I don’t remember what I put on that form” or “I’m on disability because I don’t remember stuff good”… so thats where our tax dollars are going. People who can’t work because they don’t remember things?
I also have insureds who are receiving disability payments but still work 39 hours a week at a real job (if they worked 40 the gov’t would pull their check) or have their own lawncare business that works on cash only so that it won’t interfere with their disability check.
Then we have insureds who were married but have since divorced and still live together. They tell me the reason they did this was because they both receive larger checks if they’re not married.
All this goes on for YEARS without any consequences from the gov’t because no one checks on it– no one follows up. Once they’re on disability they’re golden, checks roll in no questions asked.
Then we’ve got folks who are really and truly disabled due to illness or injury and it takes them years to get their benefits and they have to fight every step of the way.
I’m not talking about one or two cases here, all of this is widespread in the system. This outrages me, and it should outrage any tax payer to see their neighbors work the system to obtain the money that we bust our tails to earn.
Any “underfunding” of a government system is a direct result of mismanagement of funds, not insufficient funds coming in. Government as a whole does not use our tax dollars efficiently– to them its monopoly money and they can do whatever they like with it. The fat cats don’t care because they’ve got plenty of cash.
I used to be a bleeding heart liberal until I realized that we have to view the world as it is and not as we would like it to be. Idealism versus Realism. GHC along with many other government programs look great on paper, but when put into action the human element comes into play and people will find a way to work/corrupt the system. It happens every time.
So I guess the gov’t should not propose any solutions to our current HC mess. If people die due to lack of coverage, to bad! Seems every other industialized county seem to deal with it. By the way, the Frecnch system (which is always rated the #1 system in the world) is a blending of government and private insurance, much like what our system would look like if we adopt a gov’t option. Further you critize gov’t for user abuse while seeming to assume that private business is stain free. Billions of dollars are paid by private insurance companies due to fraud. Corporate scandals occur almost daily. People are greedy and some will try to abuse any system regardless of the sponsor. We can’t just say well, someone will take advantage or the fix is not perfect so we shouldn’t do anything to fix a broken system. With that attitude we’d never try to fix anything. By the way, imagine this country without SS and Medicare. I’d rather not, it’d a disaster.
Why so hostile?
I’m simply stating that government is far from efficient in anything they do. I believe we need health care reform, but I do not believe that having government take over the healthcare system is the answer. I believe that goverment and private industry must work together to solve the problem. I refuse to blindly trust our government to do the right thing, because they won’t.
If government is going to take on the responsibility of dispensing disability payments then they have a duty to monitor the system. I believe the disability system is mismanaged, both operationally and financially.
I am not sure what led you to infer that I think private industry is stain free. My intent was to indicate that human nature leads to greed and corruption. Private industry is run by humans, therefore human nature would have a similar impact in that arena.
As far as our contry with out the SS or Medicare system, keep it– just let me opt out. I am 32 years old and have been working and paying taxes since I was 16. I do not believe the SS system will be there when I am old enough to collect. I refuse to rely on the gov’t to fund my retirement. I believe I can manage my money better than the government.
If the gov’t would let me sign off on it today, I would sign in a heartbeat saying that I will never try to collect benefits as long as they’ll stop making me pay for it. I’ll sign off on SS benefits, disability benefits, even sign off saying my kids would not try to collect survivor benefits if I were taken from them. I will do this because I am confident in my ability to provide for myself and my family.
“So I guess the gov’t should not propose any solutions to our current HC mess”
The term healthcare mess gets thrown around as if an exhaustive study has been done and the science is settled that we have a crisis, and the Gov’t must respond. Sure there problems, but a widespread crisis?
A Gov’t solution would be to cut someone a check if they want to buy their own insurance and can’t afford it. They buy the insurance, the gov’t pays the premium, no one else is affected. What is being proposed will eventually lead to a Gov’t takeover, which is what they seem to want. The ramifications will be widespread. Look at places where doctors want to go cash only and provide their own programs to help their patients with the cost. In NY, the Gov’t stepped in to try and shut down a doctor who wanted to offer a monthly fee for unlimited service. Ultimately they forced him to charge a copay for any nonpreventative service, even though he determined he could get by with just the monthly, and it’s his business and he should be able to run it as he sees fit.
The Gov’t doesn’t just want to offer a competing service for those who can’t afford private insurance, they want to create a system where everyone is forced to be engaged and under Gov’t control for their healthcare.
America is turning fast to fascist ideas. The New Deal and the Great Society are coming back again. One of those brought us the great depression.
Well, we view the world completely differently. I’m glad that you have sufficent abilties that you feel you’ll never need Uncle to assist you in any way. However, if we as a Nation had this mind set, we would not have a strong middle class and we’d have countless elderly living and dying in the streets.
Two things (“socialized” gov’t programs) lead to the explosion of the middle class after WWII. 1. The GI Bill allowed millions to attend college who otherwise would never had been able to do so; and 2. SS and Medicare allowed millions of elderly to live independant and be somewhat self-supporting. This in turn allowed their children (that would be you) to save for your kids college and live a comfortable lifestyle without the burden of caring for elderly parents. This burden is shifted to the gov’t. I understand this because my grandparent’s were forced to separate with each moving in with one of their children in the pre-SS era. They could no longer work and had no income.
Personally, I’m 63 and very much will be appreciative my SS benefits. While I have saved all my life and will draw a pension, SS and Medicare will be a key elements of my retirement.
Conservatives need to look beyond themselves and understand that each person is not an island. As much as you may think you are, you arrived where you becasue of parents, teachers, and others molded you and allowed you to become sucessful. Not everyone has these luxuries.
Please don’t condescend. I worked for most everything I have, including my education and current health insurance.
I agree that SS was necessary at one point in time, and if we are delving into a history lesson please keep in mind that SS was not intended to be a permanent program.
I am glad that the SS benefits are/will be available for you to collect, and if I were in your position I would not reject those funds either. We are certainly in different positions, but that does not mean that one of us is wrong or only cares about themselves. It simply means that based on our different experiences and positions in life, we have different opinions on the topic.
I would love to be able to help every person in the world who needs it, but that just isn’t possible. I don’t think I am an island, but I will take care of my family first, not sacrifice my family’s health and security for the greater good.
Enjoyed the exchange of ideas. Have a nice day.
Hey, I am not sure who is right or wrong, but I think we are all adults. Why is it difficult to have a discussion or debate? Is it necessary to be so mean and childish.
Who knows… will WC remain sole remedy? Will Employers Liability be more of an issue? Should a single payer system be written, or any system which provides a government option, wipe out a need for medical payments???