Liberals never saw a massive spending program they didnt like. This will be in the same spot Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid is in 10 years. BROKE!
Breaking news: “2012, in a landslide victory, 80% of voters overwhelmingly vote in a republican president who vows to remove the public health care option that has vastly deteriorated the U.S. economy and reduced the quality of health care in recent years. What were we thinking”
of course those republican naysayers will only complain about this rather than offer anything resembling a solution. I think it should be mandatory that if you want to complain you should at least offer something resembling an alternative rather than jsut scream louder which is Faux News and talk radio’s approach.
No State will opt out of a government subsidied plan that all the states tax payers must pay for. This is a sham and an insult to everyones intelligence. The Opt-Out is the government option!!
Rosie, you are dumb. I have heard your idiotic remarks on other articles. Conservatives have been offering alternatives, you just haven’t been listening or reading.
Alternatives that have been mentioned:
– Capping payouts on medical malpractice claims so that doctors stop running unnessecary tests to cover their behinds (oh wait that won’t happen because lawyers are the #1 backers of the democratic party)
– Stop providing free treatment to illegal aliens
– Creating health insurance marketplaces that go beyond state lines
– More tax incentives for people and small businesses who acquire health insurance
I could go on…
Rosie, you riveting idiot; even Senator Snowe, a RINO, is backing away from this latest proposal. Go the RNC site to find many, many Republican alternatives, a few which were listed by another blogger under this article. Or are your reading comprehension skills so lacking that you only re-type what was sent to you by the Demonratic (not a misspelling) Party.
Got a quote for $500 a month for health insurance which would exclude pre-existing conditions and mental health care of any kinds and contained a $5000 deductible. I am sure the carrier would determine anything I needed to be treated for could be attributable to my pre-existing condtion. Cannot afford while I am seeking re-employment. Why don’t some people want others to have access to affordable health care? I’ve worked for 43 years and I am an illness away from
a financial catastrophe.
If the Opt-Out is what it takes to get the Public Option, so be it. The likely scenario will be that the reactionary state governments of Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, et al, will then irrationally opt out for political reasons. This will then precipitate a vast migration of their citizens to those rational states where Americans can finally get health care without being ripped off by for-profit healthcare businesses.
Well too bad your conservative and dumber-than-Rosie president of 8 years did not come up with those solutions you’ve listed that goes on and on and on.. Uh-oh!
Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are the Trifecta of Governing Perfection who are setting our GPS nav to the future! :::Emits Howard Dean HHEEEYAAAHHHH:::
Move to France Rosie! I certainly would not watch the Communist News Network CNN. or MSNBC where they are blinded by their partisan love for Obama. (One Big A$$ Mistake America)
I dont want to pay for your healthcare. Read the bill of rights. You will not find healthcare in the document.
If you’ve worked for 43 years, the you must be older than 59.5 years and would be eligible for medicare/medicaid. If you’re disabled, you’d be eligible for social security disability.
On the other hand, if you’re not eligible for the above programs and worked for 43, why haven’t you saved any funds? Do you expect others to finance your lifestyle? If you’d agree to never eat out, not drive a car newer than 15 years old, never go on a vacation, and etc., I might be inclined to give to you some sympathy, but you strike me as just another freeloader.
For goodness sakes, man, pull yourself together and stop the self-pity and whining as*, loser attitude.
William, whats wrong with profit? Do you work for free? I bet not. If you don’t work for free then you are just as bad as the evil insurance companies and doctors that make money by providing a service.
In my opinion, Mr. Vaughn, you’re living proof that any foolish idiot can earn an ARM.
Such a migration would bankrupt the liberal states that didn’t opt out. This is what has happened in NY, NJ, and other states – productive people leave such jurisdictions and non-productive mooches stay there to get handouts.
In my opinion, you’re a typical mindless liberal who is oblivious to the unintended consequences of any gov’t action.
This plan does nothing to reduce cost. So now you will get to pay for your neighbors health insurance if he is laid off or will not work or is determined to be to broke because he bought that expensive house and cant pay the mortgage. How do you think this is going to save you money?
Profit margin by industry (As most of you should know in this blog.)Health Insurance Industry is 2.2% rated 32nd in industries ranked. So is that the greedy insurance industry causing rates to go up or is it the cost of healthcare which is rising at a 7% per year clip? which this bill does nothing to address.
Answer the questions, no emotional outbursts of opinionated ridicule like liberals always respond with.
The Founding Fathers did mention that the Federal gov’t should provide for the general welfare of the public. If that doesn’t include HC, what would it include? As long as private ins. companies run healthcare, we’ll continue to get screwed. Public option is the first step in reforming the system. Thank goodness. Just hope it makes it in the final bill. As the decades roll by, it’ll become so popular, more and more groups will demand access. Thank you Sen. Dodd
Sheesh, what a mindless comment. The conservative Republicans have made several of these proposals since 1988 and they were rejected by the Demonrats with the help of a few RINOs!! Cut the phony liberal BS and engage in honest dialogue on the issue.
Any sucker can repeat the Demonratic mantra.
Well, it seems that it’s time to bring back poll tests to keep idiots such as you from voting in any election from sh*t-scooper to president.
You have to think about which citizens will be coming to your towns. Here is an interesting facts regarding your big cities you think will suffer from healthcare refugees. You can have them!
What do top ten cities with the highest poverty rate all have in common?
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Cincinnati, OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Cleveland, OH (4th)…since 1989;
Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
St. Louis, MO (6th)….since 1949;
El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Milwaukee, WI (8th)…since 1908;
Philadelphia, PA (9th)…since 1952;
Newark, NJ (10th)…since 1907.
Einstein once said, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”
It is the so-called disadvantaged who habitually elect Democrats, yet they are still “disadvantaged.”
Homer, ‘provide for the general welfare’ means to provide the means for people to take care of themselves, not to feed the or otherwise care for the people.
To paraphrase Ben Franklin in response to a question of what if the citizens of the new, fledging democracy voted for the gov’t to take from others to provide for them, he replied, “Those who seek such security over freedom will end up with neither.”
To paraphrase T. Jefferson (surely one of your heroes, the founder of the Demonratic Pary Poopers), “A gov’t that has the power to give to you anything, also has the power to take from you everything.”
An ancient Greek philosopher wrote that every democracy contains within it the seeds of its own destruction, because, eventually, those who don’t have what they want will vote in a gov’t to take from others to give to them what they couldn’t earn by their own labors. This is just one quote from a rather long treatise, but the philosopher than detailed how this would result in a breakdown in civil order and the rise of the least productive over the most productive, leading to utter and devastating poverty.
I dont think the founding fathers thought that we would be paying for everyones healthcare or quoting Mau Se Tung to children like this administration is doing.
I think the founding fathers would have nothing to do with this current administration. Just read their statements. They also had a profound belief in Christ as is evident by the letters and documents that they wrote.
I think liberals sometime just say stupid things knowing that they are stupid to make people with common since angry.
There can not be that many stupid people around. These people must have given up on being successful or just saying things out of stupidity to get a reaction.
What kind of a twisted logic is this?? You guys need to take a break from your republican agenda and look around! The whole country is broke thanks to Republicans!!..
Wise-*** Joe you’re just too blind to see the fact that it’ll cost extra more money to fix what has been broken beyond repair in all these years, that’s a given. Dems are not ignorant as Republicans to do whatever they want just because they have the majority now and that’s probably where they go wrong. It would be great if we could do exactly what Bush did — Give you all the finger and do what needs to be done, only he was stupid and did stupid things, and we’re paying the price now..
All of the industrial nations have universal health system in one form or another and they all have been working better than what we have. Delaying the process for political agenda is wrong and unpatriotic!
After reading & watching the mainstream media, I’ve come to the conclusion that government creates everything and can do anything simply by signing “laws.” Therefore, why does anyone even need to work or produce? Can’t we all live at an unbelievable standard simply by government putting words on paper?
Great point Spiny, so if liberals think that government can solve everything. The answer is another stimulus which will consist of the government sending us a check for a billion dollars, every man woman and child. Then there will be no class warfare. Ohhhh But wait.. The taxes are one billion with this form of government.
Question for you Eve, When does Obama own this? As far as your concerned the Community Reinvestment act of 1977(Carter) or Barney Frank and Chris Dodds unwillingness to regulate Fannie and Freddie as the Bush adminstration suggested with congressional support from McCain. None of this has to do with the current financial condition of our country. Dont let the facts get in the way of your argument Eve.
Republicans (or any politicians) ending a government program? Are you kidding? When was the last time any government cretin (liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, straight or otherwise)actually said something like “this government program has accomplished its goal; it’s time to end it and cut spending.”? For reference, there was, up until a few years ago, a tax on telephone bills. Guess what the tax was originally enacted to fund? That’s right-the Spanish/American war.
Please don’t be naive enough to believe that any blowhard (i.e., politician)will ever, ever, ever end a government program. The only thing that will end this, or any other program, will be what is inevitable: an unavoidable hyperinflation of the U.S. Dollar. If you don’t have at least some of your assets in gold or silver, let me ask you a question: what do you trust more-paper currency, which is backed only by political hot air & flatulence or gold/silver which mankind has valued for thousands of years?
You have a choice: study real economics (not what you see on TV or in government school textbooks but what is written by Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, et.al.) and the real nature of government (Franz Oppenheimer, Rothbard, Marc Stevens, et. al.) or continue putting yourself into a coma watching TV all the time. There is no middle ground.
Great post! you are so right. How will anyone be able to take away some unemployed bums health insurance after we give it to him for free. Obama is just like Chavez he knows that if you give the poor everything they want they will vote for you and after you start doing it everyone becomes the poor. Then everyone will rely on the politician for your entire existense.
I’m not… And I don’t think Obama is disowning the situation. You’re talking about one thing Bush did -for show- on his last year as president, probably only because the **** hit the fan… That doesn’t cover the damage for the previous 7 years. I don’t think anyone can argue the fact that for sake of fighting the wrong war, he let down the economy, education and healthcare issues.. There’s nothing wrong with that, maybe it was too much to handle for him who knows.. Heck we’re critisizing Obama for trying to juggle everything. Just another sign that we’ve forgot how much a good leader can handle.. But we should move on and start fixing all this.
First, when you refer to the “healthcare industry”, are you referring the the health insurance industry (i.e. insurance carriers, and even the agency delivery system), or to the actual providers – hospitals, doctors, etc.?
Second, how will a “public option”, which is overseen by the federal government, assure that Americans will actually get proper healthcare? Those countries that have a “public option” (Canada, Great Brittan) are notorious for not providing the proper healthcare that an individual needs.
Third, many of the “for profit” systems that you so vilify, help contribute to the ongoing research and development and advancements in healthcare that America is known for.
Forth, as to states such as Texas being irrational, keep in mind that Texas is one of many states where people are “migrating” to.
Because there were other priorities like stopping terrorists from ramming more airplanes into your face or planting bombs under your child’s pillow.
Stop reverting back to the previous administration…
Obama and his demoncratic congress has made this a bigger issue than it really is. WE ARE BETTER OFF DOING NOTHING THEN CREATING A PUBLIC OPTION. Welfare breeds welfare and I won’t stand for it.
The problem with sum of the comments about the bums that just want to live off the government is that they are ignoring reality. Lots of working people dont have health insurance. Not all companies and jobs offer health insurance and I know plenty of people in this economy who are underemployed. They are working pt because their employer downsized their hours and they are no longer available for benefits or they just cant find a fulltime job.
Personally, I would be ok with a compromise like Senator Baucus suggested where it would be a non-profit entity rather than a public option but something needs to be done. Republicans had their chances and they didnt need to get it done. Obama must get something done now. he has invested too much of his political capital.
Read today’s NY Post online. In 10 months, Ocommie has golfed more times than did President Bush in 3 years; also, Bush stopped golfing in 2003, because he felt it inappropriate to golf while the nation was at war.
Yea, Oboyma really cares for the people, right after a good tee time, a cigar, and a cold beer after the round. (I like my new name for President Howdy Dowdy, Oboyma, because he’s a mama’s boy.)
Drink up the kool-aid, you simple-minded, commie fool.
might, but it’s unlikely, understand. I’ve posted many articles that show that you’re wrong on every point. Two obvious ones, neither France nor Germany have nationalized health care. Of course, being a liberal, you’ve no facts and you don’t bother to research, you merely bother to blather and unabashedly continue to make of yourself…a fool.
Sheesh, stand up and be a woman and take care of yourself. Stop whining for the gov’t to care for you.
Cripes, I hope that you don’t have kids, because if you raise consistent with your blog comments, they’d be wards of the state supported by hardworking folks who care about this country.
Easy big fella. I was only asking a question.
I will stop reverting back to the previous administration when Republicans stop reverting back to the Clinton administration regarding the current financial crisis and 9/11 (which occurred on President Bush’s watch). And yes, President Clinton does deserve some blame for signing GLB and not killing Osama bin Laden when we had the chance.
So what you are saying is that President Bush did not have any advisors to focus on the healthcare issue and that Congress was strategizing against and fighting the terrorists? Can they not handle more than one thing at a time?
Even Republicans admitted there is a problem with the current healthcare system. The debate is about how to fix it. Remember, I agreed with you regarding the solution(s). I am against the public option if it includes any funding from the government.
Republicans and Concervatives, please stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you a left wing liberal wackjob.
Democrats and Liberals, please stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you a right wing conservative wackjob.
Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
Wow, a truly intellectual post. Good points, but I’ve a question…whatever are you doing posting on this site with the likes of Eve, Vaughn, Allan, and other assorted numb skulls? (Ludwig is one of my favorite sites and all the info is free, but, of course, one has to be able to read.)
Geez Mr. Limbaugh wannabe, can you carry a decent conversation without calling names??
“…wards of the state supported by hardworking folks who care about this country.”
Well I am one of the “hardworking folks” who support the “uninsured” who ends up in emergency rooms, and probably you are one of the fat-asses we have to pay extra for!
Was it any surprise that a Government insurance plan would make it’s way into a Senate passed healthcare bill? Everyone of those politicians in D.C. did not listen to one word the American people expressed. Maybe they (the politicians) will listen at the ballot box.
What an absolute disgrace and slap in the face to Americans. Harry Reid and his ilk have proven they no longer represent the people, but their own interests.
Over the last 6 months there has been posted many, many cites to articles and websites that dispute just about everything that you wrote in your blog. The real uninsured number is around 7M, because many working people, especially the young, choose not to buy insurance, even though they can afford it. Also, there is no obligation to insure illegal aliens (estimated to be anywhere from 12M to 18M), all children in America are covered under a myriad of state and federal programs.
Here what conservative Republicans at the state and federal levels have proposed over the years (since 1988):
1. End mandated-state coverages to reduce the cost of health insurance and let the consumer choose the insurance. For example, the average mandated coverages are 45. Some states, such as NY & NJ require that all ins policies insure against in vitro fertilization. Others require coverage for counseling, chiropractors, & etc. All of these mandated coverages are the result of too much gov’t involement in health ins.
2. Tort reform. Not just caps, but reduce the scope of duty that’s owed to patients by docs. This will reduce unnecessary testing and prescriptions by doctors.
3. Inter-state portability of ins. policies.
4. End requirements that hospitals must treat illegal aliens. This also will reduce the flow to the US of illegals.
5. All liberals and DemonRats must stop drinking that commie kool aid and read about the issues instead of blogging and blathering about nothing and posting inaccurate, untrue, or just plains stupid facts and comments on this issue. Your last post is a classic example of the latter.
Let’s do these 4 or 5 things before we overturn a system wherein polls show that 85% of Americans are satisfied with their current health coverage. If it ain’t broke, you don’t fix it and you sure as heck don’t overhaul it.
What I said Joe was correct. Lots of employers dont offer coverage to their employees or only hire consultants/ temporary workers/part-timers so they dont have to offer benefits.
Your stats are all wrong. If republicans were really serious about healthcare reform, they have had many opportunities to get it done and havent.
That’s just ********!! you’re drinking too much Fox news kool aid.. None of the main stream polls support you on those numbers so there is no point in even arguing with you!..
Have a nice life loser!
The numbers are the numbers and the largest number of uninsured is composed of illegal aliens. The next largest number is a group of folks who make more than $50K a year and choose not to buy ins, even when offered it by their employers at discounted rates. The third largest group of uninsured is the group of people between jobs and the children of such people are covered under various state and fed programs.
So, take a deep breath, step away from that kool-aid cooler, and repeat: ‘I’m such an idiot for believing all of the liberal hype and misinformation. I resolve in the future to research issues on my own and to not look to Harry Can’t Reid and Nancy Pole Dancer for information.’
Repeat the above several times a day and you’ll recover from your delusional state of mind.
…the insurance agency/brokerage/company side of the business and went into risk management (for a major healthcare provider, no less).
Every day, I deal with insurance agents/brokers that…don’t know the basics of insurance. Not a week goes by that our Corporate Risk doesn’t wind up educating at least one insurance agent/broker on the basics.
As I read through some of these posts, I honestly have to wonder how many here actually work in the insurance industry, how many understand the basic concept of the “law of large numbers”, terms such as adverse selection, etc.
There is a mentality that seems to think “the government owes me this” – the whole entitlement thing. Not to go on a rant, but…nothing is free. If you want to have a roof over your head, you have to have the money to pay for it. If you want to eat, you need to have the money to pay for it. If you want to be provided decent healthcare where YOU make the choices, and not some government entity, then you need to pay for it.
Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Diane Watson, Sheila Jackson Lee and the rest aren’t going to waive some magic want and suddenly make this stuff all free. Someone has to pay for it.
Your love and compassion for your fellow human beings clearly knows no bounds. Thank you for your shining example. If only everyone could be as caring for the unfortunate and underpriveliged.
you never cite any sources for your rants. Get back in your cubicle and continue suppressing your flatulence to avoid further embarrassment. You’ve done enough damage to reputation on this site today to last a lifetime.
And, yes, thank you; I do and will continue to have a nice life. I sincerely appreciate your concern and loving sentiments.
Of course the so-called “mainstream” polls don’t support it. They are no longer mainstream. We are now in a time where the media believes they can influence policy. They have an administration that is poll driven and really doesn’t care what the majority of Americans care or think. Public Option wasn’t going to be an issue under the Baucus Bill now it is, once it passed through committee. Democrats don’t care what Republicans offer. Republicans aren’t strong enough to make their exclusion from debate an issue. My guess they are afraid of being labeled a racist. That’s the new buzz word when you disagree with the Obama administration.
There is no reason to change or overhaul the entire healthcare system for 17% of the population (which includes illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants whichever the politically correct terminology is today). We aren’t Europe or Canada. Obama is systematically dismantling the Free Enterprise system and the apathetic Americans are buying into this so-called Change!
But, pray tell, what’s “underpriveleged?” I just can’t find it in my dictionary.
FYI:
Usage notes: When “pray” was used to emphasize requests, this standard construction (as, “pray come here”, “pray help us”, “pray leave me”) was an earnest request for information. The phrase is now, however, only used ironically to emphasize the unacceptability of something, especially when highlighting a logical fallacy.
For example, the comment by one of the bloggers that most industrial countries have national health care is just plain wrong (I cited two obvious countries), but they believe it, because the media has them sold on the need for national health care in the US.
It kinda seems that what is out there in terms of information is getting spun or lost in translation.
Even with the past few articles on IJ, all the conservative loons still reject any or most of the TRUE info that is coming out of non partisan publications.
1) My prior comments are sarcasm, if you read the boards then you know I am no supporter of Our Great Leader, King Obama, who is as perfect as Tim Tebow’s choice of weekly Bible verses. But I am also not going to blindly waive the Republitard flag like some kind of ignorant fool.
2) Bush (whom I twice voted for, might I add) PROMISED to give up golf out of respect for the soldiers. This was a promise which he quickly broke– check your facts. If I might add, the fact that he “gave up” golf when he asked his country to give up their LIVES was arrogant at best, and an pathetic & arrogant cheap political stunt at worst.
3) Bush spent nine hundred days of his eight year presidency on vacation in Crawford. That is 30% of his entire term, and the most of any president in U.S. history.
So before you go finger-vomiting all over the message board, you may want to review your sources.
Well Fact Check must be true. They were only critical of “Conservative” ads and groups. And by golly Fact Check quoted the Social Security Administration and Medicare as a source. Well gee whillikers it must be true.
This is the same government entities that said we would have 135 million H1N1 shots available. Only 13 million available to date. Medicare is the same entity that projected it would not cost more than $60 million a year at the inception of Medicare. They were a little off.
Fact is hospitals, doctors and other medical providers are getting squeezed each year. Reimbursements are getting cut by Medicare to providers every year and the program is still in arrears. Baucus Bill has another $500 million in cuts to Medicare and who pray tell is to make up the difference?
Government run healthcare is not right for America!
check out this quote from a recent WSJ article:
“In the end, there’s going to be a lot of huffing and puffing and some genuine savings from changes in Medicare, but there is no way to balance Medicare without significant increases in taxes,” said Henry Aaron, an economist with the liberal-leaning Brookings Institution.
There’s much more. The cite is: online.wsj.com/article/SB124212734686110365.html
The most telling point is that a gov’t official tells the WSJ that medicare will be broke in 2017. By the way, the Annenberg project is a very liberal site the facts from which have been discredited by many reputable sources, including the Stanford and Harvard Law Review regarding fact published by factcheck.org about guns in the US.
There is no more middle ground in America. When you disagree with socialism being forced down your throat. Your called a racist if you disagree with Obama or a conservative loon when you object to yet another government hair brained scheme. You watch as Congress and the President step on the U.S. Constitution and the lapp dogs in the media follow behind with their tail wagging and slobbering along. Congress and the President are out of control, spending is out of control and there is no more fiscal responsibility in D.C. Our tax dollars are being wasted and $900 million shipped over seas to rebuild Gaza, up to $150 million to Middle East Technology Fund. Congressional members and leaders selling out to Saudi Arabians including Bush, Clintons and Obama. And now taxpayers are going to fund a $2 trillion plus healthcare scheme. Just keep printing more money. As Rhom Emanual said, always take advantage of a crisis.
The article quotes gov’t officials and other objective 3rd-parties. You can’t dispute the source. The fact is, the WSJ and Fox News have awards for being the most accurate. Don’t confuse the political commentators who write for the WSJ or broadcast on FN with the news.
Get your liberal brain out of your you-know-what.
In fact, all of your links easily are disputed and if you were to go to the archives on the IJ, you’d see that most of your so-called reliable sources have been outed and exposed as unreliable.
Do your research and see if funds factcheck. Nice, objective-sounding name, but…George Soros.
of course we won’t agree upon anything, because you just don’t want to get in your way those pesky facts. Typical lib. Brainwashed to the end. You would’ve been a model citizen in Orwell’s 1984 world.
FACTS??? You’ve got to be kidding? I and some others on here have laid them out and your are too bull headed to get it! Just like what that guy Matt said about W. golfing, taking so much vacations and so forth. You finaly admitted you were wrong after the facts were presented to you again and again.
Just like this health care debate, there is plenty good about reform and there is a lot that still needs work on. You and the rest of the conservative base just like saying NO!!!
You and others still haven’t acknowledged that there are tons of americans in this country who have health insurance and when a claim is filed, the insured gets denied for some b.s. reason. Or, the insurance is just too expensive to afford.
The plans laid out by Republicans still favor the health insurance companies and by doing so, it really doesn’t give much competition. That is what is desperately needed…..more competition.
Question: The medical care that VA’s recieve from the government is OK. Medicare & Medicaide, OK. But not for the rest of us?
You mention in your previous posts about hand outs and other crap of the like. Just wait until something happens to you or your family and your medical insurance denies you.
Take Reid, Polosi, Watson, Frank, Lee and Rosie, put them all on a rail to Siberia, what a group of self serving “it’s all about me” individuals. I’m for helping others in need but NOT freeloaders and we’re certainly holding their hands – what a sham! Obama is leader of the pak! ask him about the “country resort” jail in IL he helped in funding/building- disgusting!
Right on Maxine! This entire healthcare debate was to be in the open. Remember yet another campaign promise broken, we were going to watch it on CSpan. No, it’s backroom politics behind closed doors. Scary Reid supporting a bill he sends to the CBO that he only read, a bill he supported before he even read. Public Option was not going to be on the table, now it is and Nazi Pelosi is now calling the public option the “Consumer” option. I don’t recall the “consumer” having a say in this bill, only government is ramrodding a socialistic plan down the American peoples throat!
1. When Presidents take vacations, they are working vacations whether you are talking about George Bush, Bill Clinton, or any other modern era President.They do what they would have done in the White House-only the locale changes.
2. Barry Obama has said publicly over and over that whatever healthcare reform bill is passed, it is just the first step towards socialized medicine in the US.
3. Howard Dean said publicly that tort reform will never happen under this administration because trial lawyers practically own the Democratic party.
4. Yes,the Wall Street Journal is in fact owned by Rupert Murdoch and its circulation has surged ahead since he purchased the paper and has passed USA Today as the most read newspaper in the country.
5. Republicans did indeed have a chance to do something about health care costs while they held majorities in both houses of Congress and they dropped the ball. Thy were not at all forceful and tried to play “nice” all the time and were as a result very ineffective. Note- I am a proud conservative which is not the same as being a Republican.
6. I have friends and acquaintences in many countries including the Middle East and they agree that Mr. Obama is a very bad joke. In the Middle East he is seen as weak. My good friend in the Czech Republic is astonished that Americans are moving towards a form of government that Czechs fought against during the post war Soviet era. Czech’s are also very sad that Mr. Obama betrayed them by cancelling plans for a missile shield.
7. Government run health plans work fairly well for routine non-serious matters but fail to treat serious conditions especially for the elderly. I have lost too many family members in the UK because they cost too much to treat.
1. It is a MUST, without it insurance companies will continue to abuse the consumer + denying affordable coverage to 40-50 million currently uninsured persons in USA and increasing premiums to potential insureds because of pre-existing conditions. COMPETITION IS GOOD FOR THE CONSUMER IT ALLOWS THEM A CHOICE.
2. Bottom line is money, mula, $$$ that is all the insurance companies, greedy doctors and hospitals care about. Your HEALTH is the last thing on their mines.
3. I have a relative living in SPAIN that has had several operations to her wrist under a socialized medicine system with no problems or delays as to care.
4. A world power (USA) with a corrupt health care system that needs a quick overhaul. The USA pays about 10K per citizen in healthcare which is 1 of highest in the world BUT ranks #10, lesser countries with 3-4K per capita in healthcare are ranked much higher than USA.
I would not touch that offer with a 10′ pole. Save the $500 a month and when u need to go a doctor pay it from their. If it is a major illness go to your local hospital and have the charges put on your credit report, but it should not be this way. EVERYONE should have the right to healthcare regarless, of age, financial situation or any pre-existing condition.
I have carefully read all the posts present and in the past. Now one has ever quesstioned WHY NOW, IF THIS REFORM DOES NOT BECOME EFFECTIVE UNTIL 2013. Can you guess? BECAUSE the next presidential election will already have taken place. Our fearless leader (ha,ha) knows that if we already have experience with this, he and his fellow democrats will lose big time in 2012
read today’s WSJ, there’s an editorial about high earners living NY and being replaced by low earners. Yea, there’ll be a population shift, you yahoos.
Allan, I’ll ignore commenting upon what you believe is your command of English. However, my apology to Matt was for accusing him of being a left wing nut, such as are you, and the fact that the Republican failed to control spending when they controlled the WH and Congress. Of course, the main reason the Repubs couldn’t do much was due to the actions of Snowe, Chaffe, Maine, McCain, and other yahoos in the party.
He’s wrong about Bush golfing after he said he wouldn’t golf.
You call me a “left wing nut”. Well, I guess that makes you a ultra conservative crack head who will believe anything you hear or read from the far right with no thought at all. Unlike myself who doesn’t believe everything I hear or read from the left.
Some of those republicans you mentioned I actually like. I think McCain would have been an excellent president. It’s just too bad his running mate was not the sharpest.
So, you never did have a re-buttal regarding my earlier post regarding the topic at hand. What’s the matter, is what said make to much sense that you don’t know quite how to process it?
Another thing, there is being conservative and then there is extreme conservatism with no rational thought at all. That is where you and a lot of people are in this country. It’s a shame, because it is this lack of rational thought that is going to drag this country down.
Now, there is nothing wrong with being conservative. But, damn, have some rational thought.
…here we go.
Liberals never saw a massive spending program they didnt like. This will be in the same spot Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid is in 10 years. BROKE!
I just hope it does not break us in the process.
Breaking news: “2012, in a landslide victory, 80% of voters overwhelmingly vote in a republican president who vows to remove the public health care option that has vastly deteriorated the U.S. economy and reduced the quality of health care in recent years. What were we thinking”
This makes me want to pull my hair out! I cant wait until the midterm elections and I am going to donate to conservatives. This is crazy!
of course those republican naysayers will only complain about this rather than offer anything resembling a solution. I think it should be mandatory that if you want to complain you should at least offer something resembling an alternative rather than jsut scream louder which is Faux News and talk radio’s approach.
you watch Faux News, don’t you bev?
No State will opt out of a government subsidied plan that all the states tax payers must pay for. This is a sham and an insult to everyones intelligence. The Opt-Out is the government option!!
Rosie, you are dumb. I have heard your idiotic remarks on other articles. Conservatives have been offering alternatives, you just haven’t been listening or reading.
Alternatives that have been mentioned:
– Capping payouts on medical malpractice claims so that doctors stop running unnessecary tests to cover their behinds (oh wait that won’t happen because lawyers are the #1 backers of the democratic party)
– Stop providing free treatment to illegal aliens
– Creating health insurance marketplaces that go beyond state lines
– More tax incentives for people and small businesses who acquire health insurance
I could go on…
Rosie, you riveting idiot; even Senator Snowe, a RINO, is backing away from this latest proposal. Go the RNC site to find many, many Republican alternatives, a few which were listed by another blogger under this article. Or are your reading comprehension skills so lacking that you only re-type what was sent to you by the Demonratic (not a misspelling) Party.
Got a quote for $500 a month for health insurance which would exclude pre-existing conditions and mental health care of any kinds and contained a $5000 deductible. I am sure the carrier would determine anything I needed to be treated for could be attributable to my pre-existing condtion. Cannot afford while I am seeking re-employment. Why don’t some people want others to have access to affordable health care? I’ve worked for 43 years and I am an illness away from
a financial catastrophe.
If the Opt-Out is what it takes to get the Public Option, so be it. The likely scenario will be that the reactionary state governments of Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, et al, will then irrationally opt out for political reasons. This will then precipitate a vast migration of their citizens to those rational states where Americans can finally get health care without being ripped off by for-profit healthcare businesses.
Well too bad your conservative and dumber-than-Rosie president of 8 years did not come up with those solutions you’ve listed that goes on and on and on.. Uh-oh!
Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are the Trifecta of Governing Perfection who are setting our GPS nav to the future! :::Emits Howard Dean HHEEEYAAAHHHH:::
Move to France Rosie! I certainly would not watch the Communist News Network CNN. or MSNBC where they are blinded by their partisan love for Obama. (One Big A$$ Mistake America)
I dont want to pay for your healthcare. Read the bill of rights. You will not find healthcare in the document.
If you’ve worked for 43 years, the you must be older than 59.5 years and would be eligible for medicare/medicaid. If you’re disabled, you’d be eligible for social security disability.
On the other hand, if you’re not eligible for the above programs and worked for 43, why haven’t you saved any funds? Do you expect others to finance your lifestyle? If you’d agree to never eat out, not drive a car newer than 15 years old, never go on a vacation, and etc., I might be inclined to give to you some sympathy, but you strike me as just another freeloader.
For goodness sakes, man, pull yourself together and stop the self-pity and whining as*, loser attitude.
Be a man, not a punk. Stop mooching from others.
William, whats wrong with profit? Do you work for free? I bet not. If you don’t work for free then you are just as bad as the evil insurance companies and doctors that make money by providing a service.
In my opinion, Mr. Vaughn, you’re living proof that any foolish idiot can earn an ARM.
Such a migration would bankrupt the liberal states that didn’t opt out. This is what has happened in NY, NJ, and other states – productive people leave such jurisdictions and non-productive mooches stay there to get handouts.
In my opinion, you’re a typical mindless liberal who is oblivious to the unintended consequences of any gov’t action.
Sheesh.
This plan does nothing to reduce cost. So now you will get to pay for your neighbors health insurance if he is laid off or will not work or is determined to be to broke because he bought that expensive house and cant pay the mortgage. How do you think this is going to save you money?
Profit margin by industry (As most of you should know in this blog.)Health Insurance Industry is 2.2% rated 32nd in industries ranked. So is that the greedy insurance industry causing rates to go up or is it the cost of healthcare which is rising at a 7% per year clip? which this bill does nothing to address.
Answer the questions, no emotional outbursts of opinionated ridicule like liberals always respond with.
The Founding Fathers did mention that the Federal gov’t should provide for the general welfare of the public. If that doesn’t include HC, what would it include? As long as private ins. companies run healthcare, we’ll continue to get screwed. Public option is the first step in reforming the system. Thank goodness. Just hope it makes it in the final bill. As the decades roll by, it’ll become so popular, more and more groups will demand access. Thank you Sen. Dodd
Sheesh, what a mindless comment. The conservative Republicans have made several of these proposals since 1988 and they were rejected by the Demonrats with the help of a few RINOs!! Cut the phony liberal BS and engage in honest dialogue on the issue.
Any sucker can repeat the Demonratic mantra.
Well, it seems that it’s time to bring back poll tests to keep idiots such as you from voting in any election from sh*t-scooper to president.
You have to think about which citizens will be coming to your towns. Here is an interesting facts regarding your big cities you think will suffer from healthcare refugees. You can have them!
What do top ten cities with the highest poverty rate all have in common?
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Cincinnati, OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Cleveland, OH (4th)…since 1989;
Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
St. Louis, MO (6th)….since 1949;
El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Milwaukee, WI (8th)…since 1908;
Philadelphia, PA (9th)…since 1952;
Newark, NJ (10th)…since 1907.
Einstein once said, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”
It is the so-called disadvantaged who habitually elect Democrats, yet they are still “disadvantaged.”
Homer, ‘provide for the general welfare’ means to provide the means for people to take care of themselves, not to feed the or otherwise care for the people.
To paraphrase Ben Franklin in response to a question of what if the citizens of the new, fledging democracy voted for the gov’t to take from others to provide for them, he replied, “Those who seek such security over freedom will end up with neither.”
To paraphrase T. Jefferson (surely one of your heroes, the founder of the Demonratic Pary Poopers), “A gov’t that has the power to give to you anything, also has the power to take from you everything.”
An ancient Greek philosopher wrote that every democracy contains within it the seeds of its own destruction, because, eventually, those who don’t have what they want will vote in a gov’t to take from others to give to them what they couldn’t earn by their own labors. This is just one quote from a rather long treatise, but the philosopher than detailed how this would result in a breakdown in civil order and the rise of the least productive over the most productive, leading to utter and devastating poverty.
Stop being a cry-baby liberal punk; be a man.
Good, succinct post; of course, liberals never let facts get in the way of their muddled thinking.
Joe you are my favorite blogger. You always bring a few other perspectives. Great job and thank you!
I dont think the founding fathers thought that we would be paying for everyones healthcare or quoting Mau Se Tung to children like this administration is doing.
I think the founding fathers would have nothing to do with this current administration. Just read their statements. They also had a profound belief in Christ as is evident by the letters and documents that they wrote.
I think liberals sometime just say stupid things knowing that they are stupid to make people with common since angry.
There can not be that many stupid people around. These people must have given up on being successful or just saying things out of stupidity to get a reaction.
That is one great option, now how do we get Reid to opt out and go home?
I sense hostility, Bev! How come, since Obama has the most good sense of any president since Chester Alan Arthur?
What kind of a twisted logic is this?? You guys need to take a break from your republican agenda and look around! The whole country is broke thanks to Republicans!!..
Wise-*** Joe you’re just too blind to see the fact that it’ll cost extra more money to fix what has been broken beyond repair in all these years, that’s a given. Dems are not ignorant as Republicans to do whatever they want just because they have the majority now and that’s probably where they go wrong. It would be great if we could do exactly what Bush did — Give you all the finger and do what needs to be done, only he was stupid and did stupid things, and we’re paying the price now..
All of the industrial nations have universal health system in one form or another and they all have been working better than what we have. Delaying the process for political agenda is wrong and unpatriotic!
After reading & watching the mainstream media, I’ve come to the conclusion that government creates everything and can do anything simply by signing “laws.” Therefore, why does anyone even need to work or produce? Can’t we all live at an unbelievable standard simply by government putting words on paper?
Great point Spiny, so if liberals think that government can solve everything. The answer is another stimulus which will consist of the government sending us a check for a billion dollars, every man woman and child. Then there will be no class warfare. Ohhhh But wait.. The taxes are one billion with this form of government.
Question for you Eve, When does Obama own this? As far as your concerned the Community Reinvestment act of 1977(Carter) or Barney Frank and Chris Dodds unwillingness to regulate Fannie and Freddie as the Bush adminstration suggested with congressional support from McCain. None of this has to do with the current financial condition of our country. Dont let the facts get in the way of your argument Eve.
Republicans (or any politicians) ending a government program? Are you kidding? When was the last time any government cretin (liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, straight or otherwise)actually said something like “this government program has accomplished its goal; it’s time to end it and cut spending.”? For reference, there was, up until a few years ago, a tax on telephone bills. Guess what the tax was originally enacted to fund? That’s right-the Spanish/American war.
Please don’t be naive enough to believe that any blowhard (i.e., politician)will ever, ever, ever end a government program. The only thing that will end this, or any other program, will be what is inevitable: an unavoidable hyperinflation of the U.S. Dollar. If you don’t have at least some of your assets in gold or silver, let me ask you a question: what do you trust more-paper currency, which is backed only by political hot air & flatulence or gold/silver which mankind has valued for thousands of years?
You have a choice: study real economics (not what you see on TV or in government school textbooks but what is written by Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, et.al.) and the real nature of government (Franz Oppenheimer, Rothbard, Marc Stevens, et. al.) or continue putting yourself into a coma watching TV all the time. There is no middle ground.
Matt, you make my point and I rest my case.
Great post! you are so right. How will anyone be able to take away some unemployed bums health insurance after we give it to him for free. Obama is just like Chavez he knows that if you give the poor everything they want they will vote for you and after you start doing it everyone becomes the poor. Then everyone will rely on the politician for your entire existense.
I totally agree.
But, why were these solutions not implemented when Republicans had control of the WH and Congress from 2001-2007?
I’m not… And I don’t think Obama is disowning the situation. You’re talking about one thing Bush did -for show- on his last year as president, probably only because the **** hit the fan… That doesn’t cover the damage for the previous 7 years. I don’t think anyone can argue the fact that for sake of fighting the wrong war, he let down the economy, education and healthcare issues.. There’s nothing wrong with that, maybe it was too much to handle for him who knows.. Heck we’re critisizing Obama for trying to juggle everything. Just another sign that we’ve forgot how much a good leader can handle.. But we should move on and start fixing all this.
May I remind you that it was the Democrat run finance committee (i.e. Barney Frank) that allowed many of the financing abuses to take place.
First, when you refer to the “healthcare industry”, are you referring the the health insurance industry (i.e. insurance carriers, and even the agency delivery system), or to the actual providers – hospitals, doctors, etc.?
Second, how will a “public option”, which is overseen by the federal government, assure that Americans will actually get proper healthcare? Those countries that have a “public option” (Canada, Great Brittan) are notorious for not providing the proper healthcare that an individual needs.
Third, many of the “for profit” systems that you so vilify, help contribute to the ongoing research and development and advancements in healthcare that America is known for.
Forth, as to states such as Texas being irrational, keep in mind that Texas is one of many states where people are “migrating” to.
Because there were other priorities like stopping terrorists from ramming more airplanes into your face or planting bombs under your child’s pillow.
Stop reverting back to the previous administration…
Obama and his demoncratic congress has made this a bigger issue than it really is. WE ARE BETTER OFF DOING NOTHING THEN CREATING A PUBLIC OPTION. Welfare breeds welfare and I won’t stand for it.
Cheers,
Joe
Funny, anon the mouse.
The problem with sum of the comments about the bums that just want to live off the government is that they are ignoring reality. Lots of working people dont have health insurance. Not all companies and jobs offer health insurance and I know plenty of people in this economy who are underemployed. They are working pt because their employer downsized their hours and they are no longer available for benefits or they just cant find a fulltime job.
Personally, I would be ok with a compromise like Senator Baucus suggested where it would be a non-profit entity rather than a public option but something needs to be done. Republicans had their chances and they didnt need to get it done. Obama must get something done now. he has invested too much of his political capital.
Read today’s NY Post online. In 10 months, Ocommie has golfed more times than did President Bush in 3 years; also, Bush stopped golfing in 2003, because he felt it inappropriate to golf while the nation was at war.
Yea, Oboyma really cares for the people, right after a good tee time, a cigar, and a cold beer after the round. (I like my new name for President Howdy Dowdy, Oboyma, because he’s a mama’s boy.)
Drink up the kool-aid, you simple-minded, commie fool.
might, but it’s unlikely, understand. I’ve posted many articles that show that you’re wrong on every point. Two obvious ones, neither France nor Germany have nationalized health care. Of course, being a liberal, you’ve no facts and you don’t bother to research, you merely bother to blather and unabashedly continue to make of yourself…a fool.
Sheesh, stand up and be a woman and take care of yourself. Stop whining for the gov’t to care for you.
Cripes, I hope that you don’t have kids, because if you raise consistent with your blog comments, they’d be wards of the state supported by hardworking folks who care about this country.
Easy big fella. I was only asking a question.
I will stop reverting back to the previous administration when Republicans stop reverting back to the Clinton administration regarding the current financial crisis and 9/11 (which occurred on President Bush’s watch). And yes, President Clinton does deserve some blame for signing GLB and not killing Osama bin Laden when we had the chance.
So what you are saying is that President Bush did not have any advisors to focus on the healthcare issue and that Congress was strategizing against and fighting the terrorists? Can they not handle more than one thing at a time?
Even Republicans admitted there is a problem with the current healthcare system. The debate is about how to fix it. Remember, I agreed with you regarding the solution(s). I am against the public option if it includes any funding from the government.
Republicans and Concervatives, please stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you a left wing liberal wackjob.
Democrats and Liberals, please stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you a right wing conservative wackjob.
Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
Wow, a truly intellectual post. Good points, but I’ve a question…whatever are you doing posting on this site with the likes of Eve, Vaughn, Allan, and other assorted numb skulls? (Ludwig is one of my favorite sites and all the info is free, but, of course, one has to be able to read.)
Geez Mr. Limbaugh wannabe, can you carry a decent conversation without calling names??
“…wards of the state supported by hardworking folks who care about this country.”
Well I am one of the “hardworking folks” who support the “uninsured” who ends up in emergency rooms, and probably you are one of the fat-asses we have to pay extra for!
Was it any surprise that a Government insurance plan would make it’s way into a Senate passed healthcare bill? Everyone of those politicians in D.C. did not listen to one word the American people expressed. Maybe they (the politicians) will listen at the ballot box.
What an absolute disgrace and slap in the face to Americans. Harry Reid and his ilk have proven they no longer represent the people, but their own interests.
Over the last 6 months there has been posted many, many cites to articles and websites that dispute just about everything that you wrote in your blog. The real uninsured number is around 7M, because many working people, especially the young, choose not to buy insurance, even though they can afford it. Also, there is no obligation to insure illegal aliens (estimated to be anywhere from 12M to 18M), all children in America are covered under a myriad of state and federal programs.
Here what conservative Republicans at the state and federal levels have proposed over the years (since 1988):
1. End mandated-state coverages to reduce the cost of health insurance and let the consumer choose the insurance. For example, the average mandated coverages are 45. Some states, such as NY & NJ require that all ins policies insure against in vitro fertilization. Others require coverage for counseling, chiropractors, & etc. All of these mandated coverages are the result of too much gov’t involement in health ins.
2. Tort reform. Not just caps, but reduce the scope of duty that’s owed to patients by docs. This will reduce unnecessary testing and prescriptions by doctors.
3. Inter-state portability of ins. policies.
4. End requirements that hospitals must treat illegal aliens. This also will reduce the flow to the US of illegals.
5. All liberals and DemonRats must stop drinking that commie kool aid and read about the issues instead of blogging and blathering about nothing and posting inaccurate, untrue, or just plains stupid facts and comments on this issue. Your last post is a classic example of the latter.
Let’s do these 4 or 5 things before we overturn a system wherein polls show that 85% of Americans are satisfied with their current health coverage. If it ain’t broke, you don’t fix it and you sure as heck don’t overhaul it.
Read my 3:06 pm post in response to your last bit of dribble and drool.
Please don’t confuse them with the facts. Their minds are already made up.
Good summation.
But there’s always hope that we can change their feeble minds.
What I said Joe was correct. Lots of employers dont offer coverage to their employees or only hire consultants/ temporary workers/part-timers so they dont have to offer benefits.
Your stats are all wrong. If republicans were really serious about healthcare reform, they have had many opportunities to get it done and havent.
That’s just ********!! you’re drinking too much Fox news kool aid.. None of the main stream polls support you on those numbers so there is no point in even arguing with you!..
Have a nice life loser!
The numbers are the numbers and the largest number of uninsured is composed of illegal aliens. The next largest number is a group of folks who make more than $50K a year and choose not to buy ins, even when offered it by their employers at discounted rates. The third largest group of uninsured is the group of people between jobs and the children of such people are covered under various state and fed programs.
So, take a deep breath, step away from that kool-aid cooler, and repeat: ‘I’m such an idiot for believing all of the liberal hype and misinformation. I resolve in the future to research issues on my own and to not look to Harry Can’t Reid and Nancy Pole Dancer for information.’
Repeat the above several times a day and you’ll recover from your delusional state of mind.
Good luck on your recovery.
…the insurance agency/brokerage/company side of the business and went into risk management (for a major healthcare provider, no less).
Every day, I deal with insurance agents/brokers that…don’t know the basics of insurance. Not a week goes by that our Corporate Risk doesn’t wind up educating at least one insurance agent/broker on the basics.
As I read through some of these posts, I honestly have to wonder how many here actually work in the insurance industry, how many understand the basic concept of the “law of large numbers”, terms such as adverse selection, etc.
There is a mentality that seems to think “the government owes me this” – the whole entitlement thing. Not to go on a rant, but…nothing is free. If you want to have a roof over your head, you have to have the money to pay for it. If you want to eat, you need to have the money to pay for it. If you want to be provided decent healthcare where YOU make the choices, and not some government entity, then you need to pay for it.
Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Diane Watson, Sheila Jackson Lee and the rest aren’t going to waive some magic want and suddenly make this stuff all free. Someone has to pay for it.
Dear Joe:
Your love and compassion for your fellow human beings clearly knows no bounds. Thank you for your shining example. If only everyone could be as caring for the unfortunate and underpriveliged.
you never cite any sources for your rants. Get back in your cubicle and continue suppressing your flatulence to avoid further embarrassment. You’ve done enough damage to reputation on this site today to last a lifetime.
And, yes, thank you; I do and will continue to have a nice life. I sincerely appreciate your concern and loving sentiments.
As always,
Your friend Joe
Of course the so-called “mainstream” polls don’t support it. They are no longer mainstream. We are now in a time where the media believes they can influence policy. They have an administration that is poll driven and really doesn’t care what the majority of Americans care or think. Public Option wasn’t going to be an issue under the Baucus Bill now it is, once it passed through committee. Democrats don’t care what Republicans offer. Republicans aren’t strong enough to make their exclusion from debate an issue. My guess they are afraid of being labeled a racist. That’s the new buzz word when you disagree with the Obama administration.
There is no reason to change or overhaul the entire healthcare system for 17% of the population (which includes illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants whichever the politically correct terminology is today). We aren’t Europe or Canada. Obama is systematically dismantling the Free Enterprise system and the apathetic Americans are buying into this so-called Change!
But, pray tell, what’s “underpriveleged?” I just can’t find it in my dictionary.
FYI:
Usage notes: When “pray” was used to emphasize requests, this standard construction (as, “pray come here”, “pray help us”, “pray leave me”) was an earnest request for information. The phrase is now, however, only used ironically to emphasize the unacceptability of something, especially when highlighting a logical fallacy.
For example, the comment by one of the bloggers that most industrial countries have national health care is just plain wrong (I cited two obvious countries), but they believe it, because the media has them sold on the need for national health care in the US.
I have more to post but the administrator won’t allow it. So, here’s the first installment.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/going-out-of-business/
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/more-health-care-scare/
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/rnc-tax-attack-goes-too-far/
It kinda seems that what is out there in terms of information is getting spun or lost in translation.
Even with the past few articles on IJ, all the conservative loons still reject any or most of the TRUE info that is coming out of non partisan publications.
Amazing.
My reply would be thus:
1) My prior comments are sarcasm, if you read the boards then you know I am no supporter of Our Great Leader, King Obama, who is as perfect as Tim Tebow’s choice of weekly Bible verses. But I am also not going to blindly waive the Republitard flag like some kind of ignorant fool.
2) Bush (whom I twice voted for, might I add) PROMISED to give up golf out of respect for the soldiers. This was a promise which he quickly broke– check your facts. If I might add, the fact that he “gave up” golf when he asked his country to give up their LIVES was arrogant at best, and an pathetic & arrogant cheap political stunt at worst.
3) Bush spent nine hundred days of his eight year presidency on vacation in Crawford. That is 30% of his entire term, and the most of any president in U.S. history.
So before you go finger-vomiting all over the message board, you may want to review your sources.
Well Fact Check must be true. They were only critical of “Conservative” ads and groups. And by golly Fact Check quoted the Social Security Administration and Medicare as a source. Well gee whillikers it must be true.
This is the same government entities that said we would have 135 million H1N1 shots available. Only 13 million available to date. Medicare is the same entity that projected it would not cost more than $60 million a year at the inception of Medicare. They were a little off.
Fact is hospitals, doctors and other medical providers are getting squeezed each year. Reimbursements are getting cut by Medicare to providers every year and the program is still in arrears. Baucus Bill has another $500 million in cuts to Medicare and who pray tell is to make up the difference?
Government run healthcare is not right for America!
It goes both ways Allan… we just need to all stop paying attention to Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC. Try to come back towards the middle peeps!
No, there are articles on there that are critical of Obama’s positions on the health care issue as well. They’re not hard to find.
I picked the ones that related to some of the insanity that have been posted here.
check out this quote from a recent WSJ article:
“In the end, there’s going to be a lot of huffing and puffing and some genuine savings from changes in Medicare, but there is no way to balance Medicare without significant increases in taxes,” said Henry Aaron, an economist with the liberal-leaning Brookings Institution.
There’s much more. The cite is: online.wsj.com/article/SB124212734686110365.html
The most telling point is that a gov’t official tells the WSJ that medicare will be broke in 2017. By the way, the Annenberg project is a very liberal site the facts from which have been discredited by many reputable sources, including the Stanford and Harvard Law Review regarding fact published by factcheck.org about guns in the US.
There is no more middle ground in America. When you disagree with socialism being forced down your throat. Your called a racist if you disagree with Obama or a conservative loon when you object to yet another government hair brained scheme. You watch as Congress and the President step on the U.S. Constitution and the lapp dogs in the media follow behind with their tail wagging and slobbering along. Congress and the President are out of control, spending is out of control and there is no more fiscal responsibility in D.C. Our tax dollars are being wasted and $900 million shipped over seas to rebuild Gaza, up to $150 million to Middle East Technology Fund. Congressional members and leaders selling out to Saudi Arabians including Bush, Clintons and Obama. And now taxpayers are going to fund a $2 trillion plus healthcare scheme. Just keep printing more money. As Rhom Emanual said, always take advantage of a crisis.
Yeah, you just happened to pick the ones for “Conservative Loons”, I think that’s the words you used. Nice try!
Oh yeah, the Wall Street Journal. Who is owned by Rupert Murdoch…who owns Fox News.
That’s credible.
My apologies.
The article quotes gov’t officials and other objective 3rd-parties. You can’t dispute the source. The fact is, the WSJ and Fox News have awards for being the most accurate. Don’t confuse the political commentators who write for the WSJ or broadcast on FN with the news.
Get your liberal brain out of your you-know-what.
In fact, all of your links easily are disputed and if you were to go to the archives on the IJ, you’d see that most of your so-called reliable sources have been outed and exposed as unreliable.
Do your research and see if funds factcheck. Nice, objective-sounding name, but…George Soros.
Sorry Joe, but I’m just not buying into it.
Face it, we are never going to agree on anything.
of course we won’t agree upon anything, because you just don’t want to get in your way those pesky facts. Typical lib. Brainwashed to the end. You would’ve been a model citizen in Orwell’s 1984 world.
FACTS??? You’ve got to be kidding? I and some others on here have laid them out and your are too bull headed to get it! Just like what that guy Matt said about W. golfing, taking so much vacations and so forth. You finaly admitted you were wrong after the facts were presented to you again and again.
Just like this health care debate, there is plenty good about reform and there is a lot that still needs work on. You and the rest of the conservative base just like saying NO!!!
You and others still haven’t acknowledged that there are tons of americans in this country who have health insurance and when a claim is filed, the insured gets denied for some b.s. reason. Or, the insurance is just too expensive to afford.
The plans laid out by Republicans still favor the health insurance companies and by doing so, it really doesn’t give much competition. That is what is desperately needed…..more competition.
Question: The medical care that VA’s recieve from the government is OK. Medicare & Medicaide, OK. But not for the rest of us?
You mention in your previous posts about hand outs and other crap of the like. Just wait until something happens to you or your family and your medical insurance denies you.
Take Reid, Polosi, Watson, Frank, Lee and Rosie, put them all on a rail to Siberia, what a group of self serving “it’s all about me” individuals. I’m for helping others in need but NOT freeloaders and we’re certainly holding their hands – what a sham! Obama is leader of the pak! ask him about the “country resort” jail in IL he helped in funding/building- disgusting!
Right on Maxine! This entire healthcare debate was to be in the open. Remember yet another campaign promise broken, we were going to watch it on CSpan. No, it’s backroom politics behind closed doors. Scary Reid supporting a bill he sends to the CBO that he only read, a bill he supported before he even read. Public Option was not going to be on the table, now it is and Nazi Pelosi is now calling the public option the “Consumer” option. I don’t recall the “consumer” having a say in this bill, only government is ramrodding a socialistic plan down the American peoples throat!
1. When Presidents take vacations, they are working vacations whether you are talking about George Bush, Bill Clinton, or any other modern era President.They do what they would have done in the White House-only the locale changes.
2. Barry Obama has said publicly over and over that whatever healthcare reform bill is passed, it is just the first step towards socialized medicine in the US.
3. Howard Dean said publicly that tort reform will never happen under this administration because trial lawyers practically own the Democratic party.
4. Yes,the Wall Street Journal is in fact owned by Rupert Murdoch and its circulation has surged ahead since he purchased the paper and has passed USA Today as the most read newspaper in the country.
5. Republicans did indeed have a chance to do something about health care costs while they held majorities in both houses of Congress and they dropped the ball. Thy were not at all forceful and tried to play “nice” all the time and were as a result very ineffective. Note- I am a proud conservative which is not the same as being a Republican.
6. I have friends and acquaintences in many countries including the Middle East and they agree that Mr. Obama is a very bad joke. In the Middle East he is seen as weak. My good friend in the Czech Republic is astonished that Americans are moving towards a form of government that Czechs fought against during the post war Soviet era. Czech’s are also very sad that Mr. Obama betrayed them by cancelling plans for a missile shield.
7. Government run health plans work fairly well for routine non-serious matters but fail to treat serious conditions especially for the elderly. I have lost too many family members in the UK because they cost too much to treat.
1. It is a MUST, without it insurance companies will continue to abuse the consumer + denying affordable coverage to 40-50 million currently uninsured persons in USA and increasing premiums to potential insureds because of pre-existing conditions. COMPETITION IS GOOD FOR THE CONSUMER IT ALLOWS THEM A CHOICE.
2. Bottom line is money, mula, $$$ that is all the insurance companies, greedy doctors and hospitals care about. Your HEALTH is the last thing on their mines.
3. I have a relative living in SPAIN that has had several operations to her wrist under a socialized medicine system with no problems or delays as to care.
4. A world power (USA) with a corrupt health care system that needs a quick overhaul. The USA pays about 10K per citizen in healthcare which is 1 of highest in the world BUT ranks #10, lesser countries with 3-4K per capita in healthcare are ranked much higher than USA.
I would not touch that offer with a 10′ pole. Save the $500 a month and when u need to go a doctor pay it from their. If it is a major illness go to your local hospital and have the charges put on your credit report, but it should not be this way. EVERYONE should have the right to healthcare regarless, of age, financial situation or any pre-existing condition.
William, I could not say it better myself. Good job.
I have carefully read all the posts present and in the past. Now one has ever quesstioned WHY NOW, IF THIS REFORM DOES NOT BECOME EFFECTIVE UNTIL 2013. Can you guess? BECAUSE the next presidential election will already have taken place. Our fearless leader (ha,ha) knows that if we already have experience with this, he and his fellow democrats will lose big time in 2012
Well said!
You saved me the time of responding to Matt and Allan. Thanks.
read today’s WSJ, there’s an editorial about high earners living NY and being replaced by low earners. Yea, there’ll be a population shift, you yahoos.
Allan, I’ll ignore commenting upon what you believe is your command of English. However, my apology to Matt was for accusing him of being a left wing nut, such as are you, and the fact that the Republican failed to control spending when they controlled the WH and Congress. Of course, the main reason the Repubs couldn’t do much was due to the actions of Snowe, Chaffe, Maine, McCain, and other yahoos in the party.
He’s wrong about Bush golfing after he said he wouldn’t golf.
You call me a “left wing nut”. Well, I guess that makes you a ultra conservative crack head who will believe anything you hear or read from the far right with no thought at all. Unlike myself who doesn’t believe everything I hear or read from the left.
Some of those republicans you mentioned I actually like. I think McCain would have been an excellent president. It’s just too bad his running mate was not the sharpest.
So, you never did have a re-buttal regarding my earlier post regarding the topic at hand. What’s the matter, is what said make to much sense that you don’t know quite how to process it?
Another thing, there is being conservative and then there is extreme conservatism with no rational thought at all. That is where you and a lot of people are in this country. It’s a shame, because it is this lack of rational thought that is going to drag this country down.
Now, there is nothing wrong with being conservative. But, damn, have some rational thought.