a program that is already scheduled to go broke? So we can be broker? Brokette?
The senate wisely backed off of expanding government charity when they saw polling numbers that indicated 61% of Americans don’t want government in the health care business. They need to keep working at it and develop a better plan.
I think you give the senate more credit than it deserves. The only reason they are backing away from expanding Medicare or including the public option is to get to the 60 votes. If they had the 60 they would have passed that bill regardless of the public opinion.
Govt run health care does not mean its affordable. All of us are going to pay more. If not in the short term, definately in the long term as the full implementation of a plan is completed. Then when you get older, as are the baby boomers, your care will be delayed/ denied due to your lack of available productive life. Ask a Canadian that needs a surgery and can’t afford to fly to the states to get it!
Then consider the impact of the govt. requiring a reduction in defensive medicine and not implementing tort reform.
These are just a few concerns. There are so many and each its own talking point. I sure do hope my understanding of basic economics and fiscal responsibility is wrong for all who see this as a better solution.
This is fantasy, but what if there were non-profit hospitals and non profit insurance companies? Make this accessable across state lines and have tort reform?
Could it work? There’s no government involvement in our daily lives and I would think it would cost less.
When you go to the grocery store, you decide if you want to buy $5.00 milk or $10.00 meat.
When you go to the doctor, you the patient are not involved whatsoever in these matters. So you end up paying $500.00 for the milk and $1,000.00 for the meat, and you’ll not only fail to protest those amounts but you’ll probably never even know the difference.
This of course is a very rough analogy and there are lots of reasons behind the astronomical costs. But being so removed from the cost equation is, I think, part of the problem.
Health insurers get the bad rap, and given the astonishing multi billion dollar judgements and penalties which have been imposed on them they probably dug their own graves there. But the underlying issue is insurance cannot be cheaper than cost. Even w/ a legislated expense ratio of 10% maximum and if 90% of premium goes to care, that premium will follow real cost.
You can’t pay out $100,000 per year in cost and charge $90,000.
Why don’t we talk AT ALL about cost. We eat processed food out of boxes and flash fried foods from restaurants. We don’t exercise. We smoke and drink, and we get into lots of car accidents. We are an extremely unhealthy nation. Until we address this among other things, cost will continue to rise indefinitely. Care is rationed in every system, and as we become farther underwater, quality medical services will be available to a smaller and smaller % of the populace.
There is no easy out on this one, which is why Obama correctly noted in his softball 60 minutes interview that seven presidents have tried and failed to reform health care. Frankly too many conflicting interests want too many things.
You are right. Good thinking. These ideas make sense. Thinking outside the box and looking for cost cutting measures. The current bills are the same ole’ thing, no changes. Dems wanting govt takeover and increased taxes. Many of these type of reforms have been submitted and voted down. Not enough support with a senate of 60 Democrats and no discussion in a country of liberal media outlets.
Interesting how govt run health care crosses state lines, however its illegal for private companies to do the same… Seems like the govt realizes the increased competition would remove two things:
(1)their need for takeover
(2)their chief complaint of no competition in the private sector.
So Matt, in your future of govt run exercise, will your senator or state rep. call you in the mornings to verify you ran your laps…
We are our own problem, however it is our problem. Not the govt’s! If I choose to eat and sleep, that’s my perogative, this is America. If I run up bills, my insurance will cover their portion and I’ll pay the rest. The law of large numbers is what insurance companies live by! Most people choose to live an active life.
You are wrong when you say care is rationed. THAT IS WRONG and shame on you for promoting a lie from the DEMS!!
Today in America, payments are rationed by insurance companies! So be it. If I choose a procedure not covered by insurance, I can pay for it.
When govt takes over CARE WILL BE RATIONED! First there will not be enough doctors to complete all the work. Second your congressman will limit medical procedures for a variety of reasons including not enough value added years remaining in your life to support the cost.
I understand what you are saying but, what do you do if you are laid off and loose your employer based health insurance and cannot afford COBRA? You have a few kids and one of them gets in a serious accident and is rushed to the hospital. After all the rehab and care that is given, you start receiving huge medical bills in the mail that you can never pay?
Because NO hospitals will be willing to work with you on payment options, and they do no understand that you dont currently have a job but will get one soon (unless you are one of the leaches that don’t want to go back to work and rather mooch off of unemployment benefits). Sorry. I’m not biting. I don’t let emotions run my mode of thinking. I use logic. Call me heartless. I really do care about people in that situation, but hospitals understand that and are willing to work with you, and there are charities out there as well.
That’s a tough situation. This is personal as it touches home. My brother owns a small business and his wife miscarried and had other complications. Their insurance did not cover it. I don’t know all the details, except the pregnancy was covered and this was not. After several days in the hospital, she got to go home with enormous bills (< $100,000).
Most importantly she was healed. He talked to the hospital Mgt. They made a business decision and reduced the charges. Within a year he was out of debt. As far as someone without a job, when they go to the hospital, they will receive medical care and many times those bills are written off.
Hopefully without increasing govt and keeping taxes low, businesses can afford to grow and hire more employees. So we will not be laid off in the future or be without a job. We, as citizens, should never stop learning to increase our value in the job market, save to increase our net value, and remain healthy to decrease our medical costs, but its not and never should be a rule of law.
I’m sorry to hear about that. It’s tragic and I’m glad they are doing well.
This is one story of many that have faced this same similar situation and I’m sorry your brother went into debt because of it. After his monthly payments and deductibles paid, he should have been in the clear…I would think. Right?
Unfortunately, the debt you spoke of gets passed on to the tax payer and added to our national debt. Which is now looking unsustainable for our kids and grand kids.
So, I’m thinking something has to be done and it doesn’t look like our government leaders can come to a mutual decision. Or at least one that doesn’t give the insurance companies the upper hand.
There is the flaw with your thinking. The debt was not passed on to the Govt, it was written down. Hospitals and doctors were paid, just not as much. Could be the real issue with a root cause of defensive medicine tactics created by litigation.
Maybe the hospital received a tax break…, but that’s nominal compared to the impact that government takeover will create.
You bring up govt takeover. Think about it. When that occurs, then the govt will subsidize premiums for millions more, will increase the size of the government with overpaid emnployees and run a faulty process. Also, they will actually owe for losses that hospitals can’t cover anymore because of the cheaper rates being paid.
I know doctors that will retire if this is implemented. It will cost them more to be employed than to retire. Also, a neighbor spent the past month in Canada. Canadians are shocked that we are adopting socializm. They can’t get a doctor’s appt within 6 months without a catastrophic event through ER. Canadians are moving to a free market system, but only the rich can afford. The better doctors are moving to free market. Canada did bring in new nurse practitioners from the Phillipeans to assist with the back-log problem. They require an interpreter to talk with the patients and do not have a strong work ethic.
The issue with my brother occurred several years ago. Now his small business grosses multi-millions each year. Its a great American story! With the reduced taxes that are ending and not paying the excessive taxes that are coming with socialized health care, he has had opportunity to grow. Implement socialized health care and tomorrow’s business opportunity will pale in comparison.
For those on the left, try something besides the happy talk of current politics and name calling of the main media. O’Reilly gives the current administration a fair shake and looks at the impacts. It may increase your belief in your position and may not. If you have not seen the other side, it will definately open your eyes to reality.
Gee, your wits must have a very short fuse for you to already be at the end of them. 85% of Americans are satisfied with either their health care and/or insurance.
So, the whole HC debate is a phony attempt to further diminish the middle-class (which class is the one that’d be most harmed by this boondoggle) by taking from the middle class to give to the poor. Note that fed employees, most notably, our honorable Senileators and Congresscrooks are exempt from this law and will keep their gold-plated health ins.
You, SFOinsurancelady, are a sucker. Hence, it’s clear that the length of your wit or wits was quite short, so it didn’t take much for you to lose it or them.
Why do you think government control/run health care insurance will turn into lower healthcare costs? Nothing the government has done curbs the costs of healthcare – they went from healthcare reform to heath insurance reform. Get out from under the run lady, until you ask your Senator to curb the costs of healthcare, the cost of insurance will continue to skyrocket.
a program that is already scheduled to go broke? So we can be broker? Brokette?
The senate wisely backed off of expanding government charity when they saw polling numbers that indicated 61% of Americans don’t want government in the health care business. They need to keep working at it and develop a better plan.
We’re broke.
I think you give the senate more credit than it deserves. The only reason they are backing away from expanding Medicare or including the public option is to get to the 60 votes. If they had the 60 they would have passed that bill regardless of the public opinion.
I don’t see the private sector doing anything about affordable healthcare….enlighten me when they do. I am at my wit’s end!
Govt run health care does not mean its affordable. All of us are going to pay more. If not in the short term, definately in the long term as the full implementation of a plan is completed. Then when you get older, as are the baby boomers, your care will be delayed/ denied due to your lack of available productive life. Ask a Canadian that needs a surgery and can’t afford to fly to the states to get it!
Then consider the impact of the govt. requiring a reduction in defensive medicine and not implementing tort reform.
These are just a few concerns. There are so many and each its own talking point. I sure do hope my understanding of basic economics and fiscal responsibility is wrong for all who see this as a better solution.
This is fantasy, but what if there were non-profit hospitals and non profit insurance companies? Make this accessable across state lines and have tort reform?
Could it work? There’s no government involvement in our daily lives and I would think it would cost less.
When you go to the grocery store, you decide if you want to buy $5.00 milk or $10.00 meat.
When you go to the doctor, you the patient are not involved whatsoever in these matters. So you end up paying $500.00 for the milk and $1,000.00 for the meat, and you’ll not only fail to protest those amounts but you’ll probably never even know the difference.
This of course is a very rough analogy and there are lots of reasons behind the astronomical costs. But being so removed from the cost equation is, I think, part of the problem.
Health insurers get the bad rap, and given the astonishing multi billion dollar judgements and penalties which have been imposed on them they probably dug their own graves there. But the underlying issue is insurance cannot be cheaper than cost. Even w/ a legislated expense ratio of 10% maximum and if 90% of premium goes to care, that premium will follow real cost.
You can’t pay out $100,000 per year in cost and charge $90,000.
Why don’t we talk AT ALL about cost. We eat processed food out of boxes and flash fried foods from restaurants. We don’t exercise. We smoke and drink, and we get into lots of car accidents. We are an extremely unhealthy nation. Until we address this among other things, cost will continue to rise indefinitely. Care is rationed in every system, and as we become farther underwater, quality medical services will be available to a smaller and smaller % of the populace.
There is no easy out on this one, which is why Obama correctly noted in his softball 60 minutes interview that seven presidents have tried and failed to reform health care. Frankly too many conflicting interests want too many things.
Allan,
You are right. Good thinking. These ideas make sense. Thinking outside the box and looking for cost cutting measures. The current bills are the same ole’ thing, no changes. Dems wanting govt takeover and increased taxes. Many of these type of reforms have been submitted and voted down. Not enough support with a senate of 60 Democrats and no discussion in a country of liberal media outlets.
Interesting how govt run health care crosses state lines, however its illegal for private companies to do the same… Seems like the govt realizes the increased competition would remove two things:
(1)their need for takeover
(2)their chief complaint of no competition in the private sector.
So Matt, in your future of govt run exercise, will your senator or state rep. call you in the mornings to verify you ran your laps…
We are our own problem, however it is our problem. Not the govt’s! If I choose to eat and sleep, that’s my perogative, this is America. If I run up bills, my insurance will cover their portion and I’ll pay the rest. The law of large numbers is what insurance companies live by! Most people choose to live an active life.
You are wrong when you say care is rationed. THAT IS WRONG and shame on you for promoting a lie from the DEMS!!
Today in America, payments are rationed by insurance companies! So be it. If I choose a procedure not covered by insurance, I can pay for it.
When govt takes over CARE WILL BE RATIONED! First there will not be enough doctors to complete all the work. Second your congressman will limit medical procedures for a variety of reasons including not enough value added years remaining in your life to support the cost.
John,
I understand what you are saying but, what do you do if you are laid off and loose your employer based health insurance and cannot afford COBRA? You have a few kids and one of them gets in a serious accident and is rushed to the hospital. After all the rehab and care that is given, you start receiving huge medical bills in the mail that you can never pay?
How does that make you feel? What do you do?
Because NO hospitals will be willing to work with you on payment options, and they do no understand that you dont currently have a job but will get one soon (unless you are one of the leaches that don’t want to go back to work and rather mooch off of unemployment benefits). Sorry. I’m not biting. I don’t let emotions run my mode of thinking. I use logic. Call me heartless. I really do care about people in that situation, but hospitals understand that and are willing to work with you, and there are charities out there as well.
Allan,
That’s a tough situation. This is personal as it touches home. My brother owns a small business and his wife miscarried and had other complications. Their insurance did not cover it. I don’t know all the details, except the pregnancy was covered and this was not. After several days in the hospital, she got to go home with enormous bills (< $100,000). Most importantly she was healed. He talked to the hospital Mgt. They made a business decision and reduced the charges. Within a year he was out of debt. As far as someone without a job, when they go to the hospital, they will receive medical care and many times those bills are written off. Hopefully without increasing govt and keeping taxes low, businesses can afford to grow and hire more employees. So we will not be laid off in the future or be without a job. We, as citizens, should never stop learning to increase our value in the job market, save to increase our net value, and remain healthy to decrease our medical costs, but its not and never should be a rule of law.
I’m sorry to hear about that. It’s tragic and I’m glad they are doing well.
This is one story of many that have faced this same similar situation and I’m sorry your brother went into debt because of it. After his monthly payments and deductibles paid, he should have been in the clear…I would think. Right?
Unfortunately, the debt you spoke of gets passed on to the tax payer and added to our national debt. Which is now looking unsustainable for our kids and grand kids.
So, I’m thinking something has to be done and it doesn’t look like our government leaders can come to a mutual decision. Or at least one that doesn’t give the insurance companies the upper hand.
Allan,
There is the flaw with your thinking. The debt was not passed on to the Govt, it was written down. Hospitals and doctors were paid, just not as much. Could be the real issue with a root cause of defensive medicine tactics created by litigation.
Maybe the hospital received a tax break…, but that’s nominal compared to the impact that government takeover will create.
You bring up govt takeover. Think about it. When that occurs, then the govt will subsidize premiums for millions more, will increase the size of the government with overpaid emnployees and run a faulty process. Also, they will actually owe for losses that hospitals can’t cover anymore because of the cheaper rates being paid.
I know doctors that will retire if this is implemented. It will cost them more to be employed than to retire. Also, a neighbor spent the past month in Canada. Canadians are shocked that we are adopting socializm. They can’t get a doctor’s appt within 6 months without a catastrophic event through ER. Canadians are moving to a free market system, but only the rich can afford. The better doctors are moving to free market. Canada did bring in new nurse practitioners from the Phillipeans to assist with the back-log problem. They require an interpreter to talk with the patients and do not have a strong work ethic.
The issue with my brother occurred several years ago. Now his small business grosses multi-millions each year. Its a great American story! With the reduced taxes that are ending and not paying the excessive taxes that are coming with socialized health care, he has had opportunity to grow. Implement socialized health care and tomorrow’s business opportunity will pale in comparison.
For those on the left, try something besides the happy talk of current politics and name calling of the main media. O’Reilly gives the current administration a fair shake and looks at the impacts. It may increase your belief in your position and may not. If you have not seen the other side, it will definately open your eyes to reality.
Gee, your wits must have a very short fuse for you to already be at the end of them. 85% of Americans are satisfied with either their health care and/or insurance.
So, the whole HC debate is a phony attempt to further diminish the middle-class (which class is the one that’d be most harmed by this boondoggle) by taking from the middle class to give to the poor. Note that fed employees, most notably, our honorable Senileators and Congresscrooks are exempt from this law and will keep their gold-plated health ins.
You, SFOinsurancelady, are a sucker. Hence, it’s clear that the length of your wit or wits was quite short, so it didn’t take much for you to lose it or them.
SFOInsuranceLady,
Why do you think government control/run health care insurance will turn into lower healthcare costs? Nothing the government has done curbs the costs of healthcare – they went from healthcare reform to heath insurance reform. Get out from under the run lady, until you ask your Senator to curb the costs of healthcare, the cost of insurance will continue to skyrocket.