My wife went to the ER with abdominal pains. The Dr. immediately orders a CT scan. Three hours later he comes in, feels around on her stomach for about 30 seconds and then says he isn’t sure what the problem is and discharges us.
We got 3 years of radiation (NO warning by the way or ANY consultation regarding the downsides of the procedure) and the hospital bill was TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.
IMHO the hospital ought to be MANDATED to advise of all risks and side effects– nobody said “we won’t be able to give you a diagnosis and we just shot a ton of radiation at your wife, and you’ll owe us the equivalent of a new car for 10 minutes worth of work.”
We were furious and will NEVER go back to BAYLOR MEDICAL CENTER.
So what you’re saying is that if the doctor would have told you in advance that “the only way to know if there is something seriously wrong with your wife is to order a CT scan, it will be expensive, and may not provide the final diagnosis”, then you would have refused and left?
Dont worry your new carrier will not pay for these test. You will just die. But hey, the good news is your heirs will be able to sue because Obama refused to include any tort reform in the healthcare bill that passed.
I agree they are under pressure but they have a duty not to overtreat. I was in the ER once and they ordered the xray and a CT Scan at the same time. They should have used the less expensive test first and if it failed to give the needed information then a second test. They probally have quotas to fill and are judged by the revenue they bring in.
first of all, why should medical bills be so high to begin with? it’s ridiculous. instead of a cat scan, could a regular x-ray of done the same thing? how long does it take to recover the cost of a new machine and the cost of the tech running it? afterall, the training will be done by the school, which may costs that hospital for that as well. there are cost and then there are excessive costs.
If I am insured, my carrier negotiated the bills I am to pay. Then I get these notices of how much they saved me. But what about the person who didnt have insurance, do they have to pay that high amount and why?
THE MEDICAL BILLS SHOULD BE REGULATED DUE TO THE FACT WE REALLY CANNOT SHOP AROUND OR SHOULD SHOP AROUND FOR MEDICAL CARE.
It’s called “balance billing”. Those who have the ability to pay must pay inflated costs to treat illegals and those who are uncollectible. It’s a sad commentary that a medical professional who is trained to assess a patients injuries and condition get’s second guessed and sued when there is a bad outcome. Our society is so pathetic that it allows the likes of personal injury attorneys to harass medical professionals into ordering unecessary tests just to protect themselves. If, in a medical professional’s judgment, a certain expenseive test isn’t warranted based on objective findings, there is no malpractice.
Let’s summarize. Scumbag personal injury attorneys (who contribute nothing to the good of society and for whom there is no down-side) get their contingency fee, while driving up the costs of treatment and medical malpractice insurance. That’s why the attorneys should contribute a portion of their fees to help pay med-mal premiums. They’re the ones who want to play in that space. It would also be helpful to have well-educated, objective, and well-paid jurors who can make a good call on what is, and isn’t malpractice. Read the definition: the standard of proof is very difficult. Too bad it’s rarely interpreted that way.
I have been preaching the need for standardized cost of billing for so long. As a third party liability adjuster I see CT scans on almost ever ER bill and the average cost of a bill is running $3500.00 for the visit. I have a difficult time getting the hospital to negotiate a small percentage if anything off of these costs. Why do Medicare/Medicaid and the health insurance companies get a reduction but I’m to pay the total amount because my claimant just happened to be uninsured? They still dig their heels in even when told this was a $300.00 ding to the patient’s bumper and very questionable as to if any injury could have occurred. It is very frustrating to hear these tests were done and more frustrating when they have to be paid for.
I understand the malpractice fears but c’mon sometimes let’s just let common sense prevail.
Here’s an even better example. I follow a bipolar family member in a full blown manic episode to the ER. She’s in an ambulance. By the time I get to the ER I’ve spoken to the psychiatrist’s office and they’ve got the psych hospital in another town waiting for her. In the ER she’s standing on a guerney with her shirt off yelling and cursing the world. Even though he knew the other hospital was waiting for her and it’s clear that he has a patient with a history of manic episodes, the ER doctor orders an EKG and does a whole bunch of bloodwork before he sends her on to the psych hospital.
The recently passes PAC Bill (aptly named for the lobbyist who wrote it) did nothing to address the underlying cost drivers of healthcare.
Patient demands, hospital balanced billing, tort reform, medical equipment costs (ever see how much a CT machine costs?), salaries for everyone, the costs of the building, plus the insurance premiums the hospital, the ER doctor who is on contract to the hospital, and everyone else involved all drive health care costs and are not addressed in the PAC.
Also, hospital rules are now so complex that your regular primary care doctor,who you spend time building a relationship with and who knows your health issues and history cannot treat you in the hospital, they have a new specialty – Hospitalist – who treat you.
This person takes over from the ER doctor and may order some of the same tests again since he/she may not have access to the ER records. This has happened to my spouse 3 times in 4 years.
They could have suggested alternatives. They suspected a kidney stone and could have suggested a renal ultrasound which would have been substantially less expensive and without radiation.
They could have asked what kind of CT scans have been done in the past to better gauge any potential risks from the added radiation.
It did not bother us that a CT scan was ordered and no diagnosis was made. It was the medical approach that did- no real effort to discern the problem, no real explanation- it’s checklist medicine. Admit, run the most detailed scan, discharge, repeat.
The spread between the “negotiated” and “actual” price was also astonishing. The actual price was something like triple what was actually negotiated by insurance.
Bottom line we need to get government out of health care. Normal pricing mechanisms are not at play– this is obvious by $1200/hour rates for common risk-free medical procedures like basic biopsies. Cost will not go down unless basic economic price mechanisms are allowed to function without interference. Why have medical costs skyrocketed, but LASIK procedures have gone down 30% in price while simultaneously becoming far more sophisticated? Answer– normal pricing mechanisms are in play.
Similarly, until we stop signing corn subsidies into our farm bills we will not see improved public health. Government artificially makes the poorest nutrition food the cheapest by subsidy – why is it surprised when obesity rates skyrocketed accordingly?
Everyone seems to be missing the BIG picture hear. The one really profiting from the “over-testing” is the RX company that charges so much for the machines, and paraphernalia that goes along with them. (also not addressed in the PAC)
As for the overwieght, high blood pressure lady in Texas,how about a little personal accountability. Mom, your daughter had health issues. It’s not the Doctors fault that she died.
This is exactly why Mrs. Obama wants to controll what we eat. We’re too stupid to eat correctly and take care of our own health. Thanks for feeding that beast!!
We are entitled to a jury of our peers, but based on what I see out there, most are neither well-educated nor objective. You can tell that by some of the responses on this blog.
“This is exactly why Mrs. Obama wants to controll what we eat.”
Then she ought to ask her husband why he keeps signing farm bills!
The fiscal 2010 agriculture bill provided $23,300,000,000 in “discretionary” spending (an increase of 12.5% over 2009) and $97,300,000,000 in “mandatory” spending — farm subsidies (an increase of 11% over 2009).
If you want to know why our grocery stores are lined with corn-filled crap, look no farther than the one hundred billion dollars of *annual* federal farm subsidy!!!
That is THREE TIMES THE ANNUAL GROSS REVENUE OF COCA COLA!!!
Sorry to shout, but nobody seems to be listening or caring! $100 billion in farm subsidies, plus $1 trillion in defense spending, this and every year! IT HAS TO STOP
Back in the day when a Doctor was actually a Physician and not a billing machine jumping to the call of the Corporate CEO/CFO/COO/CMO of a hyperegotistical corporation owned by the physicians who have no concept of their corporate responsibilities you could expect him to sit down and explain it to you. Now, He does all his communications via a computer or Blackberry, communicates with his patients through an often incompetent certified medical assistant who doesn’t know there is a difference between a brand name drug and a generic, while the “corporation has to pay for that new non invasive thingamabob” to scan what’s left of your rectum so that he can score higher on the billable hours and services so his % of profitability goes up. All this so he can afford his new significant other that has had everything but her IQ enhanced.
Drive to the most expensive neighborhood in your area. I mean the upper upper areas. every other home is owned by a doctor. Not lawyers, CPA’s, Engineers Etc. Doctors are making millions and if you reduce the cost they pay for malpractice or other costs they have it would just go to their bottom line not a reduction in your medical bills.
Forget the fact that they have gone to collge for at least 8 years, most likely had to take out a BUNCH of student loans that they are paying off. Forget the huge target on thier back every single time they treat a patient, a target that says “Sue me!”. Forget the insane hours that many of them work. Forget that they SAVE LIVES.
Do you honestly think we would have as many doctors today if they didn’t get paid very well? They only benifit socity, so I do not see a problem with them making a good living.
i think we forget that most of the money is not coming from a doctor bill, but from the costs of the actual test and the machines. we all know that cost of medical are high anyways. we need to truly reel in these costs.
My wife went to the ER with abdominal pains. The Dr. immediately orders a CT scan. Three hours later he comes in, feels around on her stomach for about 30 seconds and then says he isn’t sure what the problem is and discharges us.
We got 3 years of radiation (NO warning by the way or ANY consultation regarding the downsides of the procedure) and the hospital bill was TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.
IMHO the hospital ought to be MANDATED to advise of all risks and side effects– nobody said “we won’t be able to give you a diagnosis and we just shot a ton of radiation at your wife, and you’ll owe us the equivalent of a new car for 10 minutes worth of work.”
We were furious and will NEVER go back to BAYLOR MEDICAL CENTER.
So what you’re saying is that if the doctor would have told you in advance that “the only way to know if there is something seriously wrong with your wife is to order a CT scan, it will be expensive, and may not provide the final diagnosis”, then you would have refused and left?
Dont worry your new carrier will not pay for these test. You will just die. But hey, the good news is your heirs will be able to sue because Obama refused to include any tort reform in the healthcare bill that passed.
I agree they are under pressure but they have a duty not to overtreat. I was in the ER once and they ordered the xray and a CT Scan at the same time. They should have used the less expensive test first and if it failed to give the needed information then a second test. They probally have quotas to fill and are judged by the revenue they bring in.
first of all, why should medical bills be so high to begin with? it’s ridiculous. instead of a cat scan, could a regular x-ray of done the same thing? how long does it take to recover the cost of a new machine and the cost of the tech running it? afterall, the training will be done by the school, which may costs that hospital for that as well. there are cost and then there are excessive costs.
If I am insured, my carrier negotiated the bills I am to pay. Then I get these notices of how much they saved me. But what about the person who didnt have insurance, do they have to pay that high amount and why?
THE MEDICAL BILLS SHOULD BE REGULATED DUE TO THE FACT WE REALLY CANNOT SHOP AROUND OR SHOULD SHOP AROUND FOR MEDICAL CARE.
It’s called “balance billing”. Those who have the ability to pay must pay inflated costs to treat illegals and those who are uncollectible. It’s a sad commentary that a medical professional who is trained to assess a patients injuries and condition get’s second guessed and sued when there is a bad outcome. Our society is so pathetic that it allows the likes of personal injury attorneys to harass medical professionals into ordering unecessary tests just to protect themselves. If, in a medical professional’s judgment, a certain expenseive test isn’t warranted based on objective findings, there is no malpractice.
Let’s summarize. Scumbag personal injury attorneys (who contribute nothing to the good of society and for whom there is no down-side) get their contingency fee, while driving up the costs of treatment and medical malpractice insurance. That’s why the attorneys should contribute a portion of their fees to help pay med-mal premiums. They’re the ones who want to play in that space. It would also be helpful to have well-educated, objective, and well-paid jurors who can make a good call on what is, and isn’t malpractice. Read the definition: the standard of proof is very difficult. Too bad it’s rarely interpreted that way.
I have been preaching the need for standardized cost of billing for so long. As a third party liability adjuster I see CT scans on almost ever ER bill and the average cost of a bill is running $3500.00 for the visit. I have a difficult time getting the hospital to negotiate a small percentage if anything off of these costs. Why do Medicare/Medicaid and the health insurance companies get a reduction but I’m to pay the total amount because my claimant just happened to be uninsured? They still dig their heels in even when told this was a $300.00 ding to the patient’s bumper and very questionable as to if any injury could have occurred. It is very frustrating to hear these tests were done and more frustrating when they have to be paid for.
I understand the malpractice fears but c’mon sometimes let’s just let common sense prevail.
Here’s an even better example. I follow a bipolar family member in a full blown manic episode to the ER. She’s in an ambulance. By the time I get to the ER I’ve spoken to the psychiatrist’s office and they’ve got the psych hospital in another town waiting for her. In the ER she’s standing on a guerney with her shirt off yelling and cursing the world. Even though he knew the other hospital was waiting for her and it’s clear that he has a patient with a history of manic episodes, the ER doctor orders an EKG and does a whole bunch of bloodwork before he sends her on to the psych hospital.
The recently passes PAC Bill (aptly named for the lobbyist who wrote it) did nothing to address the underlying cost drivers of healthcare.
Patient demands, hospital balanced billing, tort reform, medical equipment costs (ever see how much a CT machine costs?), salaries for everyone, the costs of the building, plus the insurance premiums the hospital, the ER doctor who is on contract to the hospital, and everyone else involved all drive health care costs and are not addressed in the PAC.
Also, hospital rules are now so complex that your regular primary care doctor,who you spend time building a relationship with and who knows your health issues and history cannot treat you in the hospital, they have a new specialty – Hospitalist – who treat you.
This person takes over from the ER doctor and may order some of the same tests again since he/she may not have access to the ER records. This has happened to my spouse 3 times in 4 years.
They could have suggested alternatives. They suspected a kidney stone and could have suggested a renal ultrasound which would have been substantially less expensive and without radiation.
They could have asked what kind of CT scans have been done in the past to better gauge any potential risks from the added radiation.
It did not bother us that a CT scan was ordered and no diagnosis was made. It was the medical approach that did- no real effort to discern the problem, no real explanation- it’s checklist medicine. Admit, run the most detailed scan, discharge, repeat.
The spread between the “negotiated” and “actual” price was also astonishing. The actual price was something like triple what was actually negotiated by insurance.
Bottom line we need to get government out of health care. Normal pricing mechanisms are not at play– this is obvious by $1200/hour rates for common risk-free medical procedures like basic biopsies. Cost will not go down unless basic economic price mechanisms are allowed to function without interference. Why have medical costs skyrocketed, but LASIK procedures have gone down 30% in price while simultaneously becoming far more sophisticated? Answer– normal pricing mechanisms are in play.
Similarly, until we stop signing corn subsidies into our farm bills we will not see improved public health. Government artificially makes the poorest nutrition food the cheapest by subsidy – why is it surprised when obesity rates skyrocketed accordingly?
Everyone seems to be missing the BIG picture hear. The one really profiting from the “over-testing” is the RX company that charges so much for the machines, and paraphernalia that goes along with them. (also not addressed in the PAC)
As for the overwieght, high blood pressure lady in Texas,how about a little personal accountability. Mom, your daughter had health issues. It’s not the Doctors fault that she died.
This is exactly why Mrs. Obama wants to controll what we eat. We’re too stupid to eat correctly and take care of our own health. Thanks for feeding that beast!!
We are entitled to a jury of our peers, but based on what I see out there, most are neither well-educated nor objective. You can tell that by some of the responses on this blog.
“This is exactly why Mrs. Obama wants to controll what we eat.”
Then she ought to ask her husband why he keeps signing farm bills!
The fiscal 2010 agriculture bill provided $23,300,000,000 in “discretionary” spending (an increase of 12.5% over 2009) and $97,300,000,000 in “mandatory” spending — farm subsidies (an increase of 11% over 2009).
If you want to know why our grocery stores are lined with corn-filled crap, look no farther than the one hundred billion dollars of *annual* federal farm subsidy!!!
That is THREE TIMES THE ANNUAL GROSS REVENUE OF COCA COLA!!!
Sorry to shout, but nobody seems to be listening or caring! $100 billion in farm subsidies, plus $1 trillion in defense spending, this and every year! IT HAS TO STOP
Back in the day when a Doctor was actually a Physician and not a billing machine jumping to the call of the Corporate CEO/CFO/COO/CMO of a hyperegotistical corporation owned by the physicians who have no concept of their corporate responsibilities you could expect him to sit down and explain it to you. Now, He does all his communications via a computer or Blackberry, communicates with his patients through an often incompetent certified medical assistant who doesn’t know there is a difference between a brand name drug and a generic, while the “corporation has to pay for that new non invasive thingamabob” to scan what’s left of your rectum so that he can score higher on the billable hours and services so his % of profitability goes up. All this so he can afford his new significant other that has had everything but her IQ enhanced.
Drive to the most expensive neighborhood in your area. I mean the upper upper areas. every other home is owned by a doctor. Not lawyers, CPA’s, Engineers Etc. Doctors are making millions and if you reduce the cost they pay for malpractice or other costs they have it would just go to their bottom line not a reduction in your medical bills.
Forget the fact that they have gone to collge for at least 8 years, most likely had to take out a BUNCH of student loans that they are paying off. Forget the huge target on thier back every single time they treat a patient, a target that says “Sue me!”. Forget the insane hours that many of them work. Forget that they SAVE LIVES.
Do you honestly think we would have as many doctors today if they didn’t get paid very well? They only benifit socity, so I do not see a problem with them making a good living.
i think we forget that most of the money is not coming from a doctor bill, but from the costs of the actual test and the machines. we all know that cost of medical are high anyways. we need to truly reel in these costs.