Would have like to have seen stats on which dogs are most likely to be involved in a claim, and the average cost of claim per type of dog. And yet people still defend these dogs as “good dogs”. It’s gotta be the owners, right?
There is SOME truth to Hank & Ritchie’s statements. However, how do you account for some great rotties & pits who have been trained and don’t show signs of aggression? The owner definitely has influence on a dog’s “propensity” to cause injury. By the way, I’m a HO Underwriter and a former rottie owner.
Only data I found was from 06′, Pit bulls, Rots, and Wolf Hybrids led the pack. Interesting note though, Pits had 1101 attacks while the next highest were Rots with 410. Big difference, any wonder companies don’t want to be exposed to these breeds.
Tony….as an underwriter you should know that severity trumps frequency every time. Even if ONE Pit Bull attacks, mauls, or kills, it’s unacceptable. The world can live with simple dog bites, but not the catastrophic results that occur when ONE of these beasts goes ballistic for no apparent reason. It’s genetic.
I know at one time German Shepherds were among the higher # of dog bites. I can only assume that is because this breed is much more common than a pit bull or rottweiller.
Ok, so what if certain breeds do more damage, so what if there are a lot of bites. Don’t let your stupid kids and burglars come on my property…I hope my dog destroys you for bothering my property and my peace and quiet. IF my dog runs off my property chasing you, still not my fault, but IF my dog is off property or on your property and bites you, then I accept responsibility. If I have a dangerous dog on my property, grow a brain and don’t come over. I say save all dogs as it isn’t their fault, it’s the owners faults…idiots…ban stupid people.
It’s Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, & Doberman Pinschers, plus wolf-hybrids…-some peeps think it’s cool to mate a wolf from the wild with (eg) a German Shepherd.
Yes; a small dog CAN give you a nasty bite, but they let-go !
The above breeds have a VERY acute chase & bite instinct and in the case of (at least) the Pit Bull, chase, bite, hold & maul !
They even have a reputation of “going” for (attacking) their master !
Like the Wooly Mammoth..I wish they were extinct.
I don’t see the value of this breed at all
i didn’t call anyone names except for the people who don’t train and control their dogs or train them for the wrong things. Therefore, I’m glad I have a carry permit too.
I have high limits including a nice umbrella, my dogs are trained, they are also contained, I have many guns with licenses, I am a legal citizen, and I abide by the law. I see no liability risk here.
It seems to me that most of you are living in a bubble. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners. I have owned Rots, but them darn taco bell dogs are wild compared to them. Their attitude is the worst of ANY breed… now get out from behind the desk and go sell something!
I am not commenting on “bad” dogs, I am however, commenting on protecting your selfself with insurance coverage if you have an exposure. If you own a dog, especiallycertain breed, you have a greater exposure than someone who does not. In California we have paid out on lawsuits because the bad guy jumped a fence and was bitten. Wrong? Yes, but that is the reality here. Shoot at someone and miss, hit the house next door, kill your neighbor. Better have the coverage.
Allison, thanks for your comment… and lesson in underwriting. Just for the record, since I cannot interview and grade the owners, I don’t sell liab to restricted breeds, period. That would be stupid. And notice I said owner of rottie. My rot lived to 12 yrs of age and never even growled at a human. Pits are in a category all by themselves. They were bred for fighting, thats their entire reason for existence. I don’t think pits could have enough training to ever gain my trust, just their DNA.
Most claims I have reviewed involved a negligent owner. One of the worst claims I ever reviewed was a lab, attacked a 6 yr old girl. Really messed up her face. A poorly socialized dog allowed around small children at feeding time? Stupid owner!!! And remember, we insure people who own dogs, not dogs themselves!
My point was this is not a one dimensional subject; its not all about the breed, nor is it all about the owner. If it was as simple as you make it sound this article would have never been written, or needed to be written.
That is what makes it so hard to write hh with these dogs, I can’t use half the companies I have if a pit, rot, doby, or wolf is in the hh. Some will let me write the hh with a dog bite exclusion, but that is really defeating the purpose of having liability coverage in the first place. You are right about other breeds biteing and how the people raising their animals can have a profound effect on the behavior of the dog, unfortunately I can’t screen for that.
Ok I can hear the comments now when I send this “Get a Life”. I have actually researched the subject thinking I would write up an article. What I found was amazing I think the problem is the companies are simply asking the wrong questions. First a test and then the answers.
Which of the two dogs below would you approve?
A Pit bull, female, spayed 3 yrs old, fenced yard, simple woman Homeowner, the dog has had some basic training classes.
Next door lives a Golden retriever 2yrs old, not nuetered, Male of course, family with 3 older kids the dog is tied to a tree.
So let’s see what yo think and I will give you the answer and explain it.
I don’t understand why the insurance industry hasn’t taken a more nuanced underwriting stance. For example, the AKC’s Canine Good Citizen is what I recommended as a risk management consultant to real estate companies managing properties that allowed large dogs . It isn’t the breed, it’s the temperament. I personally have owned import-line German shepherds. They have never bit anyone because the Czechs and Germans breed for temperament and good health. They will, however, mix it up with a dog now and then, and that’s often when people get bitten, trying to protect their dogs, which is understandable.
The Canine Good Citizen is not bestowed on dogs with temperament problems or with dog aggression, or none that I have witnesse had those problems.
I would say either one, most agents don’t inspect the property so how would they know who or what was tied to a tree! The question on the app asks “do you own a dog and what is the breed”? Of course if an inspection is done then it might show up. The sign on the fence usually gives them their first clue, “Warning guard dog on duty.”
As to the Canine Good Citizen I have gotten it on one of my three I could train both of the other two to pass the test but one has a personality disorder so to speak, even got him a doggy shrink.
Needless to say even if I got a CGC on him it would not fix him. We are extremely careful when anyone is around and we do not take him “out”. Why keep him? If you saw how happy he is just to be alive you would understand.
I have an idiot across the street from me, who is a cop no less,perhaps synonomous with idiot these days, who feels his Pit bull is so well trained he has fought the Chief of Police in our Township to NOT have his dog on a leash, behind a fence, anything! He feels he trained it so what’s the problem? The problem is clearly outlined, it’s a PIT BULL! I’ve been branded a trouble maker for trying to keep my kids, which include a 4 yr old boy who is very rambunctious, from getting killed by this thing. I hope the dog turns on the owner to teach him a lesson and then both my problems are solved.
I am so sick to death of hearing “I own a pit bull and my dog would never attack anyone.” GET A GRIP PEOPLE! Anytime you hear of a pit attack on the news the owner is always standing there looking dumbfounded saying “My dog’s never done this before!” Well, guess what? It only take one time. Remember Sandra Herold with Travis the Chimp? He never attacked before either. Now a poor woman’s life is ruined because of this animal. And yea, I know – talking about 2 different animals here. But the point is, some animals are not to be kept as pets. Pits are one of them. Wise up!!
Our German Shepherd female has a very sweet disposition; however! She is a little kid magnet – when we are on our walks, the kids outside will run over to her to pet her. I always say no, better not, she’s a little upset today. I cannot imagine her hurting a little child but you just never know how a dog with react.
Better to be safe than sorry. Different situation if little kids are in our house. Then they can torment her all they want and she just loves it.
The USPS issued a report about five years ago about their carriers getting bit by dogs. The most frequent breed was Cocker-Spaniel mixes followed by Dobermans and Black Labs. The most severe were Pits and Rotts.
I’ve know a lot of people with Pits and Rotts. Some were never a problem but, always a threat. Others became a problem and were promptly put down. One of my CSRs has a male and female Pit that were friendly to me but, I was with their master while in their back yard. A neighborhood boy recently climbed their backyard fence to retrieve a ball only to get jumped on an held down by the male Pit. The boy wasn’t bit but, it scared everybody real bad because the Pit wasn’t happy about him being in his back yard and looked like he might bit at any second. Bottom line, not everybody that climbs your fence is going to rob you. A similar situation happened to a customer’s daughter but, it was a Cocker Spaniel. The girl was bit on the face. The injury wasn’t bad but, even with a Cocker Spaniel bite it will scar her for life. I own two dogs and they run lose because I live in the country. I won’t own anything but, a peaceful and small breed because of this. However, I do have a ten year old Beagle that will bite me if I’m forcing him to do something he doesn’t agree with.
When I lived in the city, I kept a six foot fence in very good condition and I expected my neighbors with dogs to do the same.
Pit bulls, Rots, German Sheppard, Dobermans they are all dogs. While I am not against any breed of dog, you must admit their temperament is higher strung and perhaps a little meaner. On the other had the black lab up the street (of the best “family” dogs) has attacked people and runs after them (the owner of them of course does not put them on leashes)
The point is this, my dogs have never attacked anyone. This is because I love my pet so I tie her up. She is not allowed to roam freely, be off a leash or get near people that I have not approved. My dog is not left outside alone thus increasing the safety. My dog loves people, she is very friendly, but she still is a dog. It is my responsibility as a dog owner to ensure her safety as well as the safety of others she comes in contact with.
It is the owners actions the allow dogs to be able to bite..
Attend any public event and you will see the stereotypical dog owner of the so-called dangerous breeds. They look as mean as the dog. They gravitate toward certain breeds because it heightens their “street cred”. The owners are trash and the dogs, adopted into their environment become trash too.
I saw a recent article on Michael Vic’s dogs. Many of them had been rehabilitated and only a few had to be put down.
I guess the rate for dog biting increased because some owners do not train their dogs to be sociable. Owners should socialize their puppies so that cases like this will be lessened.
Would have like to have seen stats on which dogs are most likely to be involved in a claim, and the average cost of claim per type of dog. And yet people still defend these dogs as “good dogs”. It’s gotta be the owners, right?
Bingo. I’d be willing to bet we’d see the highest severities in the Pit Bull and Rotweiller breeds due to their propensity to attack, maul, and kill.
Exactly Hank and Ritchie – couldn’t agree more! And people still feel the need to defend these breeds. Unbelievable!
I read recently the little dogs account for over half of dog bites (especially wiener dogs), the pitbulls etc have more serious bites.
There is SOME truth to Hank & Ritchie’s statements. However, how do you account for some great rotties & pits who have been trained and don’t show signs of aggression? The owner definitely has influence on a dog’s “propensity” to cause injury. By the way, I’m a HO Underwriter and a former rottie owner.
Only data I found was from 06′, Pit bulls, Rots, and Wolf Hybrids led the pack. Interesting note though, Pits had 1101 attacks while the next highest were Rots with 410. Big difference, any wonder companies don’t want to be exposed to these breeds.
Tony….as an underwriter you should know that severity trumps frequency every time. Even if ONE Pit Bull attacks, mauls, or kills, it’s unacceptable. The world can live with simple dog bites, but not the catastrophic results that occur when ONE of these beasts goes ballistic for no apparent reason. It’s genetic.
I know at one time German Shepherds were among the higher # of dog bites. I can only assume that is because this breed is much more common than a pit bull or rottweiller.
They try to let their dogs be tough since they truely aren’t.
Ok, so what if certain breeds do more damage, so what if there are a lot of bites. Don’t let your stupid kids and burglars come on my property…I hope my dog destroys you for bothering my property and my peace and quiet. IF my dog runs off my property chasing you, still not my fault, but IF my dog is off property or on your property and bites you, then I accept responsibility. If I have a dangerous dog on my property, grow a brain and don’t come over. I say save all dogs as it isn’t their fault, it’s the owners faults…idiots…ban stupid people.
Yup, they’re macho all right,
Big truck, big gun, big dog…
and a little (well you know the rest)
It’s Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, & Doberman Pinschers, plus wolf-hybrids…-some peeps think it’s cool to mate a wolf from the wild with (eg) a German Shepherd.
Yes; a small dog CAN give you a nasty bite, but they let-go !
The above breeds have a VERY acute chase & bite instinct and in the case of (at least) the Pit Bull, chase, bite, hold & maul !
They even have a reputation of “going” for (attacking) their master !
Like the Wooly Mammoth..I wish they were extinct.
I don’t see the value of this breed at all
DD72…..two comments for you.
First, you’re an idiot.
Second, people who think like you are why I have a carry permit.
i didn’t call anyone names except for the people who don’t train and control their dogs or train them for the wrong things. Therefore, I’m glad I have a carry permit too.
I’m packing heat, too! But don’t worry. Only the ladies need fear me!
DD72, by your comments you have just exposed yourself as a liability risk. I hope you are carrying very high limits on your policy.
I have high limits including a nice umbrella, my dogs are trained, they are also contained, I have many guns with licenses, I am a legal citizen, and I abide by the law. I see no liability risk here.
It seems to me that most of you are living in a bubble. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners. I have owned Rots, but them darn taco bell dogs are wild compared to them. Their attitude is the worst of ANY breed… now get out from behind the desk and go sell something!
I am not commenting on “bad” dogs, I am however, commenting on protecting your selfself with insurance coverage if you have an exposure. If you own a dog, especiallycertain breed, you have a greater exposure than someone who does not. In California we have paid out on lawsuits because the bad guy jumped a fence and was bitten. Wrong? Yes, but that is the reality here. Shoot at someone and miss, hit the house next door, kill your neighbor. Better have the coverage.
…gee my pitbull never did that before?!
Allison, thanks for your comment… and lesson in underwriting. Just for the record, since I cannot interview and grade the owners, I don’t sell liab to restricted breeds, period. That would be stupid. And notice I said owner of rottie. My rot lived to 12 yrs of age and never even growled at a human. Pits are in a category all by themselves. They were bred for fighting, thats their entire reason for existence. I don’t think pits could have enough training to ever gain my trust, just their DNA.
Most claims I have reviewed involved a negligent owner. One of the worst claims I ever reviewed was a lab, attacked a 6 yr old girl. Really messed up her face. A poorly socialized dog allowed around small children at feeding time? Stupid owner!!! And remember, we insure people who own dogs, not dogs themselves!
My point was this is not a one dimensional subject; its not all about the breed, nor is it all about the owner. If it was as simple as you make it sound this article would have never been written, or needed to be written.
That is what makes it so hard to write hh with these dogs, I can’t use half the companies I have if a pit, rot, doby, or wolf is in the hh. Some will let me write the hh with a dog bite exclusion, but that is really defeating the purpose of having liability coverage in the first place. You are right about other breeds biteing and how the people raising their animals can have a profound effect on the behavior of the dog, unfortunately I can’t screen for that.
DD72,
I’ll bet you have a big truck too!
Ok I can hear the comments now when I send this “Get a Life”. I have actually researched the subject thinking I would write up an article. What I found was amazing I think the problem is the companies are simply asking the wrong questions. First a test and then the answers.
Which of the two dogs below would you approve?
A Pit bull, female, spayed 3 yrs old, fenced yard, simple woman Homeowner, the dog has had some basic training classes.
Next door lives a Golden retriever 2yrs old, not nuetered, Male of course, family with 3 older kids the dog is tied to a tree.
So let’s see what yo think and I will give you the answer and explain it.
That would be single woman not simple woman
I don’t understand why the insurance industry hasn’t taken a more nuanced underwriting stance. For example, the AKC’s Canine Good Citizen is what I recommended as a risk management consultant to real estate companies managing properties that allowed large dogs . It isn’t the breed, it’s the temperament. I personally have owned import-line German shepherds. They have never bit anyone because the Czechs and Germans breed for temperament and good health. They will, however, mix it up with a dog now and then, and that’s often when people get bitten, trying to protect their dogs, which is understandable.
The Canine Good Citizen is not bestowed on dogs with temperament problems or with dog aggression, or none that I have witnesse had those problems.
I would say either one, most agents don’t inspect the property so how would they know who or what was tied to a tree! The question on the app asks “do you own a dog and what is the breed”? Of course if an inspection is done then it might show up. The sign on the fence usually gives them their first clue, “Warning guard dog on duty.”
Both is the wrong answer.
As to the Canine Good Citizen I have gotten it on one of my three I could train both of the other two to pass the test but one has a personality disorder so to speak, even got him a doggy shrink.
Needless to say even if I got a CGC on him it would not fix him. We are extremely careful when anyone is around and we do not take him “out”. Why keep him? If you saw how happy he is just to be alive you would understand.
The question on the app asks “do you own a dog and what is the breed”?
There are about 3-5 total questions and statistically you would account for the majority of dog bites.
I have an idiot across the street from me, who is a cop no less,perhaps synonomous with idiot these days, who feels his Pit bull is so well trained he has fought the Chief of Police in our Township to NOT have his dog on a leash, behind a fence, anything! He feels he trained it so what’s the problem? The problem is clearly outlined, it’s a PIT BULL! I’ve been branded a trouble maker for trying to keep my kids, which include a 4 yr old boy who is very rambunctious, from getting killed by this thing. I hope the dog turns on the owner to teach him a lesson and then both my problems are solved.
I am so sick to death of hearing “I own a pit bull and my dog would never attack anyone.” GET A GRIP PEOPLE! Anytime you hear of a pit attack on the news the owner is always standing there looking dumbfounded saying “My dog’s never done this before!” Well, guess what? It only take one time. Remember Sandra Herold with Travis the Chimp? He never attacked before either. Now a poor woman’s life is ruined because of this animal. And yea, I know – talking about 2 different animals here. But the point is, some animals are not to be kept as pets. Pits are one of them. Wise up!!
Our German Shepherd female has a very sweet disposition; however! She is a little kid magnet – when we are on our walks, the kids outside will run over to her to pet her. I always say no, better not, she’s a little upset today. I cannot imagine her hurting a little child but you just never know how a dog with react.
Better to be safe than sorry. Different situation if little kids are in our house. Then they can torment her all they want and she just loves it.
The USPS issued a report about five years ago about their carriers getting bit by dogs. The most frequent breed was Cocker-Spaniel mixes followed by Dobermans and Black Labs. The most severe were Pits and Rotts.
I’ve know a lot of people with Pits and Rotts. Some were never a problem but, always a threat. Others became a problem and were promptly put down. One of my CSRs has a male and female Pit that were friendly to me but, I was with their master while in their back yard. A neighborhood boy recently climbed their backyard fence to retrieve a ball only to get jumped on an held down by the male Pit. The boy wasn’t bit but, it scared everybody real bad because the Pit wasn’t happy about him being in his back yard and looked like he might bit at any second. Bottom line, not everybody that climbs your fence is going to rob you. A similar situation happened to a customer’s daughter but, it was a Cocker Spaniel. The girl was bit on the face. The injury wasn’t bad but, even with a Cocker Spaniel bite it will scar her for life. I own two dogs and they run lose because I live in the country. I won’t own anything but, a peaceful and small breed because of this. However, I do have a ten year old Beagle that will bite me if I’m forcing him to do something he doesn’t agree with.
When I lived in the city, I kept a six foot fence in very good condition and I expected my neighbors with dogs to do the same.
Pit bulls, Rots, German Sheppard, Dobermans they are all dogs. While I am not against any breed of dog, you must admit their temperament is higher strung and perhaps a little meaner. On the other had the black lab up the street (of the best “family” dogs) has attacked people and runs after them (the owner of them of course does not put them on leashes)
The point is this, my dogs have never attacked anyone. This is because I love my pet so I tie her up. She is not allowed to roam freely, be off a leash or get near people that I have not approved. My dog is not left outside alone thus increasing the safety. My dog loves people, she is very friendly, but she still is a dog. It is my responsibility as a dog owner to ensure her safety as well as the safety of others she comes in contact with.
It is the owners actions the allow dogs to be able to bite..
Attend any public event and you will see the stereotypical dog owner of the so-called dangerous breeds. They look as mean as the dog. They gravitate toward certain breeds because it heightens their “street cred”. The owners are trash and the dogs, adopted into their environment become trash too.
I saw a recent article on Michael Vic’s dogs. Many of them had been rehabilitated and only a few had to be put down.
I guess the rate for dog biting increased because some owners do not train their dogs to be sociable. Owners should socialize their puppies so that cases like this will be lessened.