Actually, privatizing social security would have meant each person had ownership, though with very limited access, of their own accounts. This would have prevented the government from raiding the pantry and stealing all that money to begin with, instead of leaving a trail of worthless IOUs and a mountain of debt.
I always love when people say things like “Unjustified profits” or “Unjust rate increases”. What seems “unjustified” to one person might not seem unjustified to another.
Look at the numbers. Insurance companies make 3-5% profit. Thats it. The heath insurance reform bill did nothing to lower the cost of health care (which is the biggest factor in determining health insurane rates).
Another thing I don’t understand. If health insurance companies “are greedy, faceless corporations that will deny a claim and drop someone the moment they get sick” then why do you bother carrying health insurance in the first place? Oh wait, thats because the bill that was passed forces everyone to buy it. Now, before anyone brings up auto insurance, let me address that. Auto insurance is THIRD person insurance (at least in tort states). If you dont carry liability auto insurance, the person you hit suffers. If you don’t carry health insurance, only you suffer.
Dear President Chavez…I mean Obama,
Last I checked there was a thing called free speech in this country. Not only is your administration threatening companies who exercise it, your HHS Secretary is threatening to leverage your control of the market to punish them for doing so. In other words, you are pretty much doing what I was afraid you would do. You and Hugo seem to have more in common everyday.
And if it is the truth that increases are necessary because of the new law, are companies supposed to lie, just like the politicians? If they lie, the go to jail. If they do not pad the pockets of those that are picking their pockets, and obey comrade obama and his handlers, he will make sure they go out of business. Oh…that is going to happen anyway.
Obama’s minions in the adminstration know full well pandora’s box is wide open and the mere thought of this fiasco called health reform is enough to raise rates. Most of us can’t wait for the repeal of this BS when control is established after Nov of this year.
Jim hit the nail squarely on the head. The attempt of a government to quash free speech by use of coercive measures spits in the face of our country’s foundation. And did I miss something, does the Fed now have rate regulation authority over the State?
From the comments…the Fed’s certainly believe they have control of everything be it Federal and/or State regulated…..
We can only hope the balance of power changes in November and perhaps some of this Federal rhetoric will subside.
Plus, we can only hope Obama is a one-term President…..
I thought the U.S.A. over threw Iraq’s Saddam Hussain; but from what I am witnessing we have home breed our own Dictator…Barack Hussain Obama. Of course, I still question if he is a U.S. Citizen……
Threats and intimidation. Wow, from our HHS secretary. Will be interesting to see how Robert Gibbs spins this one when asked about it. I would like to know how it is that a company can be told they must put more cost into it’s product, yet cannot charge more for said product. How can they stay afloat?
…”Later this fall, we will issue a regulation that will require state or federal review of all potentially unreasonable rate increases filed by health insurers, with the justification for increases posted publicly for consumers and employers. We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded from health insurance Exchanges in 2014. Simply stated, we will not stand idly by as insurers blame their premium hikes and increased profits on the requirement that they provide consumers with basic protections.
Americans want affordable and reliable health insurance, and it is our job to make it happen. We worked hard to change the system to help consumers. It is my hope we can work together to stop misinformation and misleading marketing from the start.”
Big brother is not watching, but rather taking control.
The rank attempt at intimidation is something one would see in a banana republic. The fact that the new law mandates coverages that heretofore may not have been included in some afforable, but not cadillac, policies is bound to increase rates and on low premiuum accounts that means higher % of increases. And wait until the real mandates kick in for the 30 million uninsured. Reminds me of the old sign about the flogging will stop when the attitude changes. I hope this Admin doesn’t think we are as dumb as their political ham handedness indicates.
THis is so disgusting and “un-american” I can hardly stand to look at TV and see the faces of this “so called” politicians – it’s a slap in the face of us who are true
Americans and love this country. Yes, let’s hope that November reflects a hugh change in the Senate, Congress and our local politicians. Who does the HHS Secy think she is – just another puppet of Obama
Yes Virginia, our fear of how this monstrosity of a health care overhaul is being rammed down our throats is now rearing its ugly head. And who best to be the Obama mouth-piece about warnign insurance companies about the ramifications of raising premiums because somehow they need to stay afloat than that socialist former Governor of Kansas – Kathleen Kavorkian Sebelius. That woman accepted the job in the Obama administration because she will never be elected again to the governor’s position after issuing certificates of indedebtedness to Kansas state employees when she realized that her increased taxes did not generate enough state revenues to honor its payroll obligations to its own state employees. And to think that she was even once the Kansas Commissioner of Insurance.
And of course, just like tax cheat – who is now Treasury Secretary who lorsd it over everybody else’s tax returns, Sebelius admitted to “unintentional errors” in her tax return and paid nearly $8000 in back taxes. This seems to be a recurring them among Obama’s administration cronies. What a shame!
This guy got in because people bought the promise of change. He is a typical Chicago pol and an activist.
All except far lefters who voted for him are p*ssed as they feel they got the old bait and switch routine.
November is coming.
The best theater will be how Nancy, Harry and Big O handle the defeat. I’m betting they will blame their message and the Repubs. Couldn’t possibly be they failed to do what the American people elected them to do.
Y’all want some cheese to go with that whine???! Bush was no good! Obama has a huge mess to clean up. No one could have came into this situation and satisfied Americans. So, get over yourselves!
BUSH HASN’T BEEN PRESIDENT IN ALMOST 2 YEARS!!! Obama has changed NOTHING (except the unemployment rate and deficits, which have gone UP since he took office…)
Was Bush the best president, no. Did most people like Bush, no (including myself). Was Bush better than Sen. John Kerry, yeah by a landslide. Did President Bush create the financial crisis, no (he was a part of it, but Carter (DEM) created it).
Do you look dumb when you blame Bush for Obama’s horrible leadership, yes.
OS, what would any Bush mess have to do with the Healtchare mess. Focus, focus, focus or are you trying to be facetious and fok us. Nice try but you are way short of the mark. Maybe its Bush derangement syndrome. Check with your local progressive talisman for a palm reading and a brain scan. I am sure that is covered in the O’care mental health plan-try page 2,695.
@Obama Supporter
Thanks for making my point. I couldn’t have said it better. The theater is grand. The excuses continue. This is better than Shakespeare. Neither party has what it takes.
As I said, the Dems will never admit they are trying to govern with
O-Supporter – Nice try, but the Blame Bush game doesn’t play with this issue. Health care was all Your Boy Barry and the Demodogs. Like the bumper sticker I saw for the Obama Bowl – Problems Solved – 0; Blame Bush – 97.
I’m sorry that most of you have no idea as to what Socialism is.
Universal healthcare is NOT socialism.
Also, someone below was indicating that insurance companies make between 2 – 5% profit. You are thinking of P&C carriers. Health insurance carriers make significantly more in profits. Profits, by the way, that are and have been growing all throug the recession. I believe the last statistic I heard where that average rates are up 400% over the last decade.
Finally, I’m not trying to endorse Obama’s plan for health insurance. To be frank, there is so much disinformation out there, that it’s hard to figure out what is going on. But I can’t believe that anyone would be against health care for children of for allowing insurers to use information that “may” indicate a person is predisposed to a certain disease.
People can easily go bankrupt in this country fighting illness when the have insurance and even though is it not their fault (ie diseases not having to do with smoking, drinking etc). Almost every one of my friends that have dealt with a life changing disease (republican or democrat) think the system is broken and needs fixed (granted, that is only 4 people, but they all had insurance).
Again, I’m not endorsing Obama’s plan per se, but I have not heard a republican plan that can deal with millions of uninsured people or keep a completely responsible person from losing everything to fight something like cancer.
when you say that Obama has done nothing. Health insurance and financial reform is not nothing. Also, he is winding down the Iraq war and winding up the Afghanistan war. Seems like he’s doing plenty, whether or not you agree with it.
HE. DIDN’T. WANT. ANY. OTHER. SOLUTIONS. He rammed this bill down our throats whether we wanted it or not. They passed a bill without even reading it! Remember “We won’t know what’s in the bill until we pass it?”
So the Republicans have not offered any solutions, huh? You must only watch NBC news then. If you really care about this country’s future and not just your own politcal ideology, copy and paste following webpage into your browser and take a look at the Republican plans: http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/
Wally, Again, I’m not indicating that I support the plan 100%, but from what I can see, the Republicans sat on their hands for a long, long time. I mean, this isn’t an issue that is recent. This has been a problem in the country for years and years. Oh, and both parties shove legislation down the others throat. There are issues on both sides.
LEM, you can jump on me as being some person that has this crazy ideology, but that’s not the case. I’m not on either extreme on any issue. I looked at that site you were talking about. Why didn’t they implement this from the years of 2000 – 2006?
I will reiterate for the third time. It’s not that I’m 100% behind this bill, but something has to be done about it, and it seems that Obama is the only one trying.
Solutions, you admonish people about knowing what socialism is and then mention “universal healthcare” in the following sentence. Boy have you made the point about socialism and who knows what about what.
By the way, here is the definition for you, enough said!
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
This system is not universal healthcare as it leaves out the other half of the uninsured. You may recall that this plan was not touted as insuring “everyone” at a cost of 1 TRILLION dollars. I can’t wait for the cost of the other half.
By the way, healthcare and insurance are two different animals. Our current healthcare system provides care for everyone, insured and uninsured. And please spare me the silliness of trying to pit opponents as being against helping children. That is an old leftist tactic that has lost its luster and affect.
As respects profit, in 2009 the avearge profit for a health insurer was 3.4% and health insurer profitability was 87th out of 215 industries. You are dead wrong in your facts.
No one believes that the system doesn’t need some work to control costs and be sure that people aren’t bankrupted by disease, injury, or medical condition, but that could have been done with a scalpel, not a cleaver. We could have developed catastrophic insurance programs backed by the gov, done tort reform, extended coverage for pre-ex and allowed competition to lower costs. We could have increased co-pays to prevent overuse of the system and worked on Medicare fraud and reimbursements to keep the cost shifting to the employer and individual plans under control. Unfortuanetly, none of this was done.
We all are looking for solutions, but this Hydra of a program is so far off the mark that nearly all Americans realize the folly of moving the government into the drivers seat on this sensitive and important issue.
So, I would say to you that you need to do your homework on socialism, the health insurance industry, and why compassion does not reside solely in the hands of “enlightened” liberals.
Are you sure he is trying to fix healthcare. “Trying” does not in and of itself garner any credit unless you have a solid basis for your actions. Face it, the American public was against this and they had to pass this in the dead of night on Christmas Eve, make so many back room deals and complicate the plan with 2,700 pages of unknowns that “trying to do something” is just not a good enough reason to give him credit or wait patiently while the bomb ticks. Its like asking all of us to tap dance on a land mine, juggle nitro, and sip gasoline while Congress looks on. Ask yourself this, if this plan was so good, why didn’t it sell itself!
To advance the debate, I offer these facts-figures as of 2009
Average amount of personal income spent
on health care: 6 percent
On housing: 39 percent
On transportation: 20 percent
On food: 14 percent
On clothing: 4 percent
Healthcare spending as a percentage of income, for those earning less than $20,000 per year: 15.5 percent
For those earning between $55,000 and $70,000: 5.1 percent
For those earning more than $70,000: 3 percent
Average increase in employer-based health insurance premiums since 1999: 120 percent
Average increase in wages since then: 29 percent
Proportion of personal bankruptcies related to illness or medical bills: 62.1 percent
Increase since 2001 in the proportion of personal bankruptcies caused by medical problems: 50 percent.
Sources: Randcompare.org; Congressional Budget Office; American Enterprise Institute; Urban Institute; National Coalition on Health Care; Kaiser Family Foundation; American Journal of Medicine
Why didn’t Clinton fix this? Why didn’t Roosevelt fix this?
Give me a break. Bush decided it was more important to go after those SOBs who rammed a plane into the WTC Towers – that is why he wasn’t doing anything with health care.
Should the President be able to accomplish everything we want him to do – yes. However, can he do everything we want – no.
Obama has decided to take on everything. Unfortunately, it’s just not feasable. On top of that, he is truly unexperienced and he doesn’t listen to the people. His sole purpose is to strengthen gov’t and the Democratic Party Platform.
What extraordinary arrogance we now see from the administration, through the mouth of its political appointee. Any of us in the business KNOW that the legislation mandated reductions in our plan benefits and in Medicare, and forced Medicare premiums to go up, and will certainly force health plans to increase premiums for all subscribers when the millions of now uninsured people are forced to buy insurance they may not need or may not want – because those who did apply for coverage will be those who couldn’t obtain it in the voluntary market due to severe health problems that I, for one, do not want to pay for.
Say the average person eats one apple per week. Then apples get very popular, and the average person now eats one apple per day. If the supply of apples is fixed, what will happen to the price of apples?
Health care is the apple. We need a lot more healthcare and health trends are pointed the wrong way. We can’t all be 300 pounds with high blood pressure and diabetes and think everyone is magically going to get affordable health care. Joint replacement for boomers is a big new medical fad. Imagine how many more joint replacements will be needed when all these way-too-young-to-be-morbidly-obese people get older.
—
Meanwhile, our government HEAVILY subsidizes corn. All of the following contain corn: animal feed (so it’s in our meat), baking powder, corn anything, dextrin/maltodextrin, dextrose, fructose, malt, malt syrup, malt extract, mono & diglycerides, MSG, sorbitol, starch, sucrose, vegetable anything (i.e. broth, protein, shortening, etc), xantham gum, and more. It’s even in our cat food (have you ever seen a cat eat corn?).
If we’re eating nothing but corn-fed meat, artificial sugars made from corn, and the corn byproducts in a big % of packaged grocery store items, then how can anyone reasonably expect us to be healthy?
—
Bottom line, health care costs will continue to increase– largely due to our national health, largely due to benefits reaped by Billy Tauzin and Phrma back during Bush II, and also due to Medicare.
Our system will continue to degrade, and thanks largely to Medicare cuts we will see an ever increasing % of doctors make the decision to stop accepting ANY health insurance. Some of my doctors have already made this change. No insurance- not medicare, not BCBS or any other plan. Bring your checkbook. These same docs are still booked up.
We’ll eventually have the legal mandate to purchase health insurance in an environment where no competent doctors actually accept said insurance. In short you’re going to have to pay your “health care premium” but any sort of good medical care will be cash-only. A truly two-tiered system for the fewer and fewer “haves” versus the growing number of “have nots.”
Fun stuff, eh? It isn’t Obama’s fault either. This was caused by generations of political action/inactions and a rapidly increasing sedentary lifestyle combined with rapidly decreasing nutritional content of the American diet.
“Now listen you people,” says Ms. Sebelius, “don’t you dare tell people that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around. Congress can change the law of economics as surely as it can legislate new laws of physics.”
Insurance company PROFITS (not premiums, PROFITS) in 2009 over $ 11,000,000,000. Yes, they are obviously hurting tremendously…just like big oil. Tom, you are absolutely correct, they are just barely getting by.
Yes, it is the law of physics that Congress repealed two generations ago: the nation does not need to live within its means. Isn’t it great that in our Congress’ wisdom, we can repeal the laws of mathematics? Oh yeah, I forgot, Mrs. Sebelius’ contempt for the First Amendment permits her to change the constiutional law of responsible and free speech in the United States. Isn’t it great. Thank you, Mrs. Sebelius.
Using my name, nice touch. I don’t know where you got your “profit” fact but I doubt seriously is will hold any water. Face it, you are a “big corp” basher who will never accept the free market system. The only “big” you prefer is big government. By the way, the government is showing a 1.26 TRILLION dollar deficit so far this year with a couple of weeks to go before the fiscal year ends. That is down slightly from the over 1 TRILLION dollars in defict for last year. And, next year, the deficit is expected to again be over 1 TRILLION dollars. How does that compare to profits. Maybe you can convince your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids that “big government” is good for them!
Tom (2), some fact checking on your 11 Billion profit. Here is the info. These Top 10 Health Insurance companies make up nearly 48% of the market with revenues of $308 Billion. 11 B in “profit” is almost spot on to my figure. Which means that you have attempted to distort the discussion with a large number and completely glossed over the mathematical relationships. You also decry big oil profits but if I make 1 cent on 1 gallon of oil and Trillions of gallons are sold, that too will produce a huge “profit” number. In your world, I am suppose to ignore the realities of large numbers and focus on “obscene” profits as demonstrated by profits in the BILLIONS. That fact alone is designed to stir my outrage at capitalism and demand that these BILLIONS be returned to the people by way of government confiscation through tax policy. Nice try, but no cigar.
1. UnitedHealth Group: $80.1 billion — Market share: 12.36%
2. WellPoint Inc. Group: $56.3 billion — Market share: 8.69%
3. Kaiser Foundation Group: $48.4 billion — Market share: 7.46%
4. Aetna Group: $28.1 billion — Market share: 4.33%
5. Humana Group: $26.6 billion — Market share: 4.11%
6. Health Care Service Corporation (HCSC): $18.3 billion — Market share: 2.82%
7. American Family Corp. Group: $14.8 billion — Market share: 2.29%
8. Coventry Corp. Group: $13.1 billion — Market share: 2.02%
9. Highmark Group: $12.9 billion — Market share: 1.98%
10. Independence Blue Cross Group: $10.2 billion — Market share: 1.57%
Matt, please get your figures straight. The 2009 fiscal year defense budget was $515.4 Billion. I guess facts get in the way of liberal group think. By the way, I think that this is a great bargain for one of the core responsibilities set forth in the Preamble of our Constitution.
P.S. You might have missed the fact that the “stimulus” was 30% more that the defense budget. And, based on the effectiveness of that spending, the bargain is even more evident.
can we all do a reality check? afterall, we keep blaming the government for actions that the industry takes first. if you think about your actions as an individual, you are electing these folks into office. it takes more than just one to pass these bills. how many of these folks have you voted and re-elected into office? how many times has your congressman voted their way and not the way of the people? everyone is quick to blame the president, true he is the leader of our nation, but if you remember, he can’t sign anything into law, until CONGRESS passes it. we can’t keep blaming the past, like carter or roosevelt, because it’s not about a person nor one particular party. what is bad is one party wants to always blame the other or take credit. what we need is a change in our politicians to those that speak for the people and as of the people and not just for themselves. we should be hearing what they do everytime and not just during the election year. now i agree everyone needs good health coverage and it should be available to all. everyone deserves the right to live as long as possible or in the best possible care. it should not matter whether rich or poor. our country needs to stop giving money away like a free credit card w/o limits for spending. time for americans to stand up as americans.
Wudchuck, I can agree, in part. The President is the one to blame as he advanced this bill, fought for it, encouraged and made backroom deals to get this passed with a parlimentary manuever against the will of the majority of the American people. There are times, decisions, and actions that absolutely attach themselves to a President, and this is one of them. Sure, some in Congress are complicit in this matter, but this President will have to shoulder full responsibility. There are watershed moments in history where Presidential action is manifest, and this is one of them. And his Demo supporters must, should and will be held accountable in Nov.
Reality is that if Americans stop living their life in the FAST FOOD WORLD and started actually exercising and taking care of their bodies like not smoking. Then we wouldnt have to worry about expensive insurance. Alot of desease come from how we eat. The demand is so high for Artery killing food that the manufacturers cut corners to meet demand. IF we ate less then they would focus more on quality than quantity. Why does america have to be the most obeast country in the world??
Sure, obesity is an issue. However, that is not the crux of it. Health insurance is now being used to cover nearly every single expense associated with healthcare. This is ridiculous and rewards those who use insurance more. Health insurance, much like car insurance, should be used for large, irregular expenditures. Things like hospital use, emergency rooms, extended procedures, and required surgeries. At this point, however, health insurance is covering doctor visits, chiropractic, annual checkups, basic testing (which is now required by law, thanks to the Madoff-Care scam passed by Obama/Pelosi/Reid), etc. Essentially, this is tantamount to your care insurance covering oil changes, tires, shocks, stereos, and every other part of your car that requires any kind of maintenance.
Now, please take a moment to ask yourself why this is the case. This is due to leftist politicians at the state level MANDATING insurance carriers cover these costs. So, while we are all pondering on how to lower insurance costs, perhaps we ought to first do away with mandating insurance cover MAINTENANCE ISSUES. Insurance, by definition, is not meant to cover regular, expected, or scheduled occurrances (aside from chidbirth, which can generally be scheduled – if you’re responsible, that is).
80%/20% catastrophic coverage, which includes ambulance and hospital, is not that expensive. The problem is, leftist politicians will not allow the market to offer these types of plans. Why? Votes come with what seem to be “goodies” and “freebies” – which is exactly what we are talking about when these mandates are thrown onto the backs of citizens. We all end up paying higher premiums for leftist politicians to buy more votes.
If we could simply get back to the true definition of “insurance” and also do away with frivolous lawsuits, our coverage costs would decline precipitously.
Instead, the leftist democrat party has offered greater government intrusion and fewer reasons to be conscious of, or want to control, costs. And all the while they sit in the pockets of the trial lawyers, who are essentially blackmail artists (“don’t want to pay to litigate? I’ll settle for $50k, out of court”), who then give a piece of the money scammed from us all to the democrat party. Kind of like the mafia.
Why does America have to be the most obese country in the world? Because we are one of the most prosporus ones.
Also, there are plenty of illnesses that are not due to not eating properly. To make a blanket statement as ” We wouldn’t have to worry about expensive insurance” if we somehow ate less is a falicy. Would us eating properly drasticly reduce how much it costs to heal someone after they have been involded in a horrible car accident? No. What about athletes that die of heart attacks, that are the pinical of health?
I understand where you are going with it, and yes some of America’s health problems are due to being overweight, but your statements make it seem like “if the fatties would just lose weight, we wouldn’t have any illness anymore”
if you check statistics the most costly per year and the deadliest disease all stem from the food we intake. Why doesnt china have the same cancer related deaths, or deaths from heart attacks. Why doesnt Great Britain have people dieing from strokes like in the US. The root of the insurance is how we eat. If people are healthier and stopped smoking I would say that majority of these costly operations would not exist. We can prevent accidental injuries, like a car accident or falling down stairs and that is what insurance should cover. If you treat your car like junk, driving in potholes, not doing proper maintenance does your insurance cover it? NO they cover things that are uncontrollable, or that are unintentional. If Health care did the same people would be forced to either live healthier or die at their own expense. Why live right if I can have insurance pay for triple bypass surgery and make me brand new again?
“Fact Check: How much is spent annually on obesity in the United States?
• A 2009 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, along with RTI International (a nonprofit research group), found that the direct and indirect cost of obesity “is as high as $147 billion annually.” The study was based on figures collected in 2006.
• The study found that in 2006, obese patients spent an average of $1,429 more for their medical care than did people within a normal weight range. That is a 42 percent higher cost for people who are obese.
• The CDC study found that Medicare, Medicaid and private insurers increased spending due to obesity from 6.5 percent in 1998 to 9.1 percent in 2006. The figure includes prescription drug costs.
• Another 2009 study in the journal Health Affairs concluded that the costs of hospitalizations related to childhood obesity rose from $125.9 million in 2001 to $237.6 million in 2005. Bottom Line: America spends as much as $147 billion annually on the direct and indirect costs of obesity. In the year of the most recent CDC study, 2006, that made up 9.1 percent of medical spending.”
I am amazed at the obesity thread. Have we come to the point where every citizen is worried about his neighbor’s activities under the guise that “it costs me money”. That kind of mindset is scary as it can be used to justify control of nearly every human activity. For me, obesity is an issue that is best covered by information, not legislation or regulation, which seems to be the direction the commentary is heading. If I can be a bit facetious, just think of the savings that obesity brings. The obese die earlier, thus taking less out of Social Security and other programs. Maybe we should encourage obesity because it saves me money. If we really want to tackle obesity, we should all focus on getting rid of the dead weight in DC this November, starting with anyone who voted for Hellthcare.
WTF…I could care less if my neighbor wants to eat himself dead but not at my expense. The same way if you have claims on your driving record you pay more. Well they should do the same with healthcare. Why should somebody who eats right, exercises and doesnt cost the insurance company money pay the same premium as somebody who is obese and always going to the doctor and requires multiple surgeries?
Healthcare should have a format where every year you do a check up and based on the results determines your premium. If you smoke you get charged more than a non-smoker. If you have high-blood perssure you pay more. If you dont give people a reason to change their eating habits then they wont.
But to address an issue that a prior post addressed on letting people die at the own expense. I understand where he is coming from, on making people be reponsible for their own actions. But letting people die is not moral. Where would the line be drawn? “Well he was speeding, so its his problem that he is now paralzed. He can’t pay for his meds. Oh well. Guess his wife and kids will need to figure out how to make money now”
Kevin, ever heard of experience rated policies, they have been around for eons. I guess I don’t get the fixation with ingestion of high caloric foods. May I suppose that you eventually will warm up to DNA tests to see what life has in store for everyone. Then maybe a committee that reviews in vitro chromosomal testing results to see if a child’s birth will cost your neightbors too much money. I hope I have made my point and will move on.
Tom, you have taken this to ah whole different place. Checking to see if a child might cost you money is different from somebody who CHOOSES to neglect their health. Why should I who CHOOSE not to smoke pay higher premium because somebody CHOOSES to smoke?? Why should my insurance premium go up because this person now requires lung surgery or has lung cancer and needs care? There is enough education about health out there. If you kill yourself does your family get the life insruance money? NO..So its not like because you have insurance you have an entitlement.IF the healthcare made it so that those who take care of their body benefited from lower premiums I am sure people would change their thinking. If you didnt go to jail from drinking and driving imagine how much deaths there would be in the US. Let me ask you this If I rob you and we both go to jail is that fair?
Actually your family does get your life insurance if you commit suicide (but you have to wait a year after the policy inception to do so – the suicide clause).
Not so there are a number of life insurance polices that specifically state that you will receive NO BENEFIT if the insured commits suicide. Of course companies will have clauses but the point I was making is that why should people benefit from wrong doing? If I hurt somebody I go to jail, If I dont do my job I get fired, If I cheat on my wife I will be divorced, If I smoke until my lungs are black and get lung cancer, I get the best healthcare doctors who try to make me better.
I swore i would resist this nutty blog thread but I cannot.
Some of these blogs sound dangerously close to what Dr. Mengele and the NAZIs tried, especially the genetic part…especially the poor science.
And now, (how can I resist?) a thought. Much of the food we eat is now dominated by large corporate food manufacturers that have been encouraging us to eat larger portions and to ingest sugars, salt, and other “unnatural” things in the food we eat. While we have better choices, the issue is that we have become accustomed to this way of eating….it takes a lot to break these habits…but I am sure that big business (ha ha) is happy to continue feeding us the chemicals and junk. Maybe the locavores and the vegans really have something. Unfortunately, it won’t turn profits for Kraft, General Mills, et al.
Of course, this is not to mention the chemicals that flood our environment and our bodies. Not all cancers are caused by smoking, folks. And the FDA or whoever has even less oversight powers over those chemicals that are so freely thrown around than over food. If you think that the influx of cancers, asthma and auto immune diseases in this country is not aided and abbetted by the noxious and unregulated stuff that floats around in our air and water, think again.
I am sure Dow loves its “dispersant” and Monsanto its “genetically modified” seeds. Nice to know that my well being is dependent on the folks that bought us agent orange and DDT…and over which no one seems to have oversight. or haven’t you read the media about the plastics in baby bottles? Haven’t you read the studies about growth hormones in all our meat and milk? Haven’t you read the media about seven year old females cooming into menarch? The increase in hormonally related breast cancers? So, now, hail hail for corporate self policing and the “free market” controls. They are working out nicely, doncha think?
If y’all want to be NAZIs, why don’t you NAZI around those issues?
Typical. Instead of people taking personal reponsiblity, they are quick to blame someone else. Its really easy to point the finger at “big business”. Maybe if we acutally WATCHED what we eat and get out and exersize, we might not be as fat as other countries. Sorry, I am not buying “Its all big business’ fault that I’m fat because I eat 3 double cheeseburgers a day”. Now, some people are predisposed to being larger then the average person, but those are faaaaar and few between.
Sorry, its not big business’ fault that we over induldge in foods.
In response to Obama supporter, I am tired of hearing Bush blamed for everything. Remember, he couldn’t do anything by himself without the stamp of approval from Congress, which was controlled by Democrats during his last years in office. And, unlike the Obama, Pelosi, Reid way, Bush didn’t get laws passed with dark, back room, bribery deals like this healthcare law. (The current leadership used our money to buy votes for a bill we don’t want!) We have a president, a congress and a cabinet full of Chicago-type politicians who want to ram their way of changing this country down our throats and no one better get in their way. (Corruption? That’s Chicago’s last name.) That’s the prevailing attitude in our leadership these days and it’s frightening. And, Sibelius’ admonishion to insurers about increaasing prices only shows that most of this administration is so ideologically and politically driven that they either cannot or don’t want to understand Economics 101.
The really frightening aspect of this healthcare bill is that the government will become the single payer through the back door once they put private insurers out of business by destroying their profits by regulating the premiums (just like the Chicago way of getting the bill passed in the first place, teh gov’t will bribe states to control rates) and you’ll have bureaucrats running the healthcare show – probably the same way they managed the standardized voting machine system. Notice that we’re reverting back to paper ballots after spending millions of dollars on a touch screen system that didn’t work). Boy, I can’t wait for some gov’t bureaucrat to tell me what’s good for me or what medication I should be taking (because it’s cheaper). By the way will all of them have medical degrees? And do we ultimately get assigned our own bureaucrat to serve as our primary physician or do we get passed around the office?
Nerd, for the record, i wasn’t toally blaming big business for all the obesity…just saying that the unhealthy way of eating has become the social norm in this country primarily due to the readily and fairly cheap avaialability put forth by the mega food corps. While we were sucking up all that sugary and salty garbage before we all knew how bad it and its additives were, our habits changed. Now we have to consciously break those habits which is a lot harder than just only having healthy choices to chose from. We have to reundergo a reality shift and retrain oursleves in portion size, as well as lesser refined foods.
You may want to consider blaming them for it due to the fact of all the hormones including growth hormones that are in milk, meat, dairy as well as the antibiotic overload….it’s hard to buy everything organic, folks…and it is much better than it was a few years ago….so if they put it in or inject it in, in most ways were are at their mercy….
The one question that is not being asked in these exchanges is: If this health care reform program is that wonderful, why don’t we see/hear congressmen and senators and union members telling the American people about their intentions to switch to this program when it takes effect?
Yes, “To”, that is my WHOLE point…that those who rabidly decry Obama and “liberals” in general are blinded to the fact that BOTH parties and our representatives (and I use the term loosely) are guilty of the same sins.
We ALL are getting short shrift from our government, regardless of what pole you hang on, but by savaging each other, we gain nothing but further hatred.
I have to tell you that as an “older” person, I have never heard such abject and unwarranted disrespect as that of the venom spewed by the “right” and by adults in positions of power. And I lived through the late 60’s and early 70’s…and we all know how friendly that era wash That Karl Rove is back in charge and in favor after his more recent disgraces is very troubling to me, since he has taken political discourse to a qhole new level of dirt. he did this before and he is doing it again. And he isn’t even elected by ANYBODY!
All the while, while he is playing his little naughty boy games and setting up his little demagogues, people’s lives and livlihoods are at stake and nothing is done due to this polarization which sets us against ourselves.
Sorry, if he were a leftist, I would say the EXACT same thing…
The trouble with Obama is that he tried to be a statesman. An “outsider” on the Hill gets chewed up and spit out. It would appear that to roll with the pork barrel pigs, be they blue or red, you have to get in and wallow in the mud.
“Sebelius warned that bad actors may be excluded from new health insurance markets under the law. They’d lose out on a big pool of customers.”
IS THIS THE CHICAGO WAY OF DEALING WITH FREE SPEACH YOU DO NOT LIKE?
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION. THIS IS A BORDERLINE IMPEACHABLE FOR OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO THREATEN BUSINESS IN THIS WAY.
WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH, IF SOMEONE DOES NOT TELL IT THEN WE ALL WILL FIGURE IT OUT! THAT IS WHAT THE 1ST AMENDMENT IS ALL ABOUT. OBAMA SHOULD READ THE CONSTITUTION AND APPLY A CIVIL TONE TO THEIR COMMUNICATION WITH THE PUBLIC.
I agree with the writer’s comment. This is a totally unacceptable for a cabinet member, or anyone else holding a political position, to take. Sibelius should be fired for that Chicago-style, un-American comment. She is using her position to bully legally organized businesses here that must address the higher costs imposed on tjhem by the government or go out of business. Her rem arks are part of an underlhying agenda to usher in a government run, single-payer program, which is what this so-called whole healthcare reform program is really all about, by depriving private insurers of making any money in the climate leading up to it, thereby forcing them out of business. Ojut government is run by stealth politicians who are not upfront with their constituents and will lie, cheat and steal from us to advance their agenda.
Sarah makes an excellent point here, that I think everyone else missed or ignored.
The Constitution was created to protect the sovern rights of the States and protect the citizens from oppressive behavior from our Federal Government.
THIS IS OPPRESSIVE BEHAVIOR FROM OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! YOU CANNOT LEAGALLY THREATEN A BUSINESS FOR WHAT THEY SAY!
Whether you are liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, You have to admit this administration is way over the line with their arrogant behavior. No one on the left of center would have allowed for these threatening statements to be said by a conservative administration (Bush Admin) against a company who came out against the Iraq war a few years ago. (DEMS BE HONEST)
You never would have allowed this, Why is it ok now? Will it be ok in the future when the GOP takes over? (I dont think so!)
WE NEED ALL CITIZENS TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST ANY ADMINISTRATION WHICH ILLEAGALLY DENIES ANYONES ABILITY TO USE THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. THERE IS A REAL GOOD REASON WHY THE FOUNDING FATHERS CHOSE THIS AMENDMENT TO BE FIRST WHEN UPDATING THE CONSTITUTION. BECASUE THERE WAS A GLARING NEED TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK WITHOUT ANY RECOURSE.
Just another arrogant denial of our freedom to speak our minds.
This administration is moving from a socialist agenda to a communist agenda. I really am starting to think that Obama thinks he is King of our nation instead of a first term rookie that he is. A little humility and less talk about himself would serve him well.
I am an independent voter, registered democrat for primary reasons and this is very wrong for us to allow any politician democrat or republican to threaten any business for what they say.
Jim, I am a conservative voter. I just wanted to let you know that most rebuplicans/conservatives don’t blame democrats or liberal voters for this mess.
I think it is easy for us to blame each other. But in reality, Obama promised something and then did something else.
I agree this administration as well as the encumbents in Congress need to go.
Nobama in 2012. New congress in 2011. Let’s take our country back.
Don’t mind Al, Penny. He gets a dime for every one of these posts from the RNC. Last week he tried saying that Christine O’Donnell never admitted that she paid part of her rent with campaign funds, even though we provided links to the quote from Politico, CNN and other news sources.
I cannot believe the lack of civility and disrespect you all are showing to the office, if not the person of our President.
Sarah, you talk about impeachable actions, well, you all should consider the seditious content of what you post. It’s OK for you to rant but not Sibelius, who, by the way, was not ranting? she is “advising” the consequences of poor action.
Where were you when Cheney et. al., were abrogating our rights in the Patriot Act, or I guess that doesn’t count, right? Because you are the only patriots, right? remember the saying…when they came for the gypsies I did nothing because i wasn’t a gypsy…. You cry wolf so often you don’t even know the real thing when you see it.
Where were you when our GOP packed Supreme Court allowed corporations the same first emendment rights as natural citizens? Since when do you think that is right, huh? You who have whined about all the union money for the democrats…
you talk out of all sides of your mouth. You who whine about taking of rights, when this goes on day in and day out on all governmental levels. But as long as the GOP backs it, or rather, the right wing fringe of it, everything is all copacetic?
Since when didn’t states warn insurance carriers that they were going to be shut down if they continued their evil practices that are anti-consumer and anti-insured? But it’s different when a state does it and not the federal government?
Since when have big businesses not had resources and money to fight what they conceive to be injustices? Like the lobbying going on right now over various issues? We, the people don’t stand a snow balls chance in hell, when faced with what big business can marshall. We are shut out now from the process..which may be why you are ranting so much…but you are selecting the wrong targets…or not targeting widely enough. You swallow the cant and so we end up fighting among ourselves rather than doing the real job of cleaning house and making one man one vote start to count again…by having a Congress that is supposed to be a deliberative body instead of a bunch of self serving professional ruling class posturers.
You people are over the top…you are just too much…and nasty to boot.
I try to remain nuetral for the most part, but your prior posting forced me to say something.
Do you realize that you do the same thing as the people you accuse?
Although I agree that people in one party often times neglect the poor actions of their own representatives, you completely neglect the fact that BOTH sides do the same thing. To accuse the republicans of this and not the democrats is just plain ignorant.
Bush got way more criticism when he was in office and a lot came from his own party as well.
Everyone respects the office, but not who is currently occupying it. Yeah Obama is a nice guy, but he is truly not the right person for the job. Heck this is really his first governing job.
I feel like you speak in too broad of terms… too generalized. Just an observation.
Cass, your screeds tend to come off as a plea to give the left a chance as the right is totally corrupt. Then you attempt swing back to the middle by grazing the left with some criticism. Yes, both parties are guilty of excesses, but the party that is currently dominating the government SHOULD be castigated for its obvious failures and called to account for the direction they want this country to take.
Face it, Mr. Obama is no “outsider”, he is a political creator of the worst den of political thuggery, a Chicago politician with no private sector experince, in other words, a total “empty suit”. He has surrounded himself with academics and career politicians, very few of which have had any private sector experience. He is not a victim of the system, he is a orchastrator of the system, e.g., the back room deals and parlimentary manuevers to get this massively destructive piece of legislation passed by the slimest of margins.
I see your diatribe about Carl Rove etc as nothing more than an attempt to deflect where the real criticism lies.
If you truly believe that the people need to assert themselves then you should be a big fan of the Tea Party movement, which is based on small accountable government, spending cuts, including the military, and deflating the federal government at the same time restoring State’s rights. From you past posts, I know that this movement is an anathema to you.
This current political divide is breaking down to private sector v public sector, State’s rights v. Federal rights, and small government (programs cuts and no additional deficit spending and no tax increases) v. big governmnet (Keynesian defict spending and heavy taxations and regulation). These are bright line divisions and trying to walk the middle is not possible. You are either on one side or the other in this battle for the future direction of the county.
I just love arguing with a liberal, Its so much fun to watch them always revert to the same tactic. When confronted with facts you do not like, alway have an emotional outburst of factless illogical ridicule. (name calling).
Oh well where do I start with your outburst.
Casandra, “Where were you when our GOP packed Supreme Court allowed corporations the same first emendment rights as natural citizens?”
Do Corportation’s pay taxes, (by the way alot more than you do.) ? Do they not employ you and all of your democrat union friends? ( by the way unions do not pay taxes, because they dont make money, (right). They just own GM with your socialist buddy Obama.
Casandra, I dont know if you have heard but Bush and Cheney are not President anymore and by the way they never threatend any Union for their use of their Freedom of speach, and as I stated before they do not pay taxes and never recieved a Supreame Court ruling that says they have that right of freedom of speach.
Casandra, NEVER IN HISTORY HAS A SITTING PRESIDENT THREATENED AN INDIVIDUAL CORPORATION OR AN INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN FOR THEIR USE OF THEIR RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF SPEACH! AT LEAST NOT IN PUBLIC AND DONE WITH SUCH ARROGANCE. MAYBE NIXON, BUT WE ALL KNOW HOW TRANSPARENT AND ETHICAL HIS ADIMINSTRATION WAS.
Sorry Casandra, your plea for civility towards Obama, is falling on deaf ears as I will treat him with as much respect as he treats the Citizens and Business interest, ( The tax payers) of our great Nation.
Casandra,Regarding one of your other rants.
“Since when didn’t states warn insurance carriers that they were going to be shut down if they continued their evil practices that are anti-consumer and anti-insured? But it’s different when a state does it and not the federal government?”
STATES HAVE THE DUTY TO REGULATE INSURANCE NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE US CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN TO PROTECT THE STATES AND THEIR SOVEREGN RIGHTS AND ALL CITIZENS FROM AN OPPRESSIVE OVERBEARING REGIME LIKE WE HAVE NOW.
Casandra, Let’s review some more of your illogical outburst of ridicule.
“It’s OK for you to rant but not Sibelius, who, by the way, was not ranting? she is “advising” the consequences of poor action.” (CONSEQUENCES = THREAT) NICE WAY OF PUTTING AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL ILLEAGAL THREAT, IT ISNT IT.
Where were you when Cheney et. al., were abrogating our rights in the Patriot Act, or I guess that doesn’t count, right? Because you are the only patriots, right?
MAYBE YOU DO NOT REMEMBER, BUT 3,000. FELLOW AMERICANS DIED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001. I KNOW YOU WANT TO FORGET IT, AND MAKE IT A LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, BUT IT WAS A NATIONAL SECURITTY ISSUE. AND IF YOU HAVENT NOTICED WE HAVENT BEEN HIT AGAIN. (YET) AS LONG AS WE HAD A REAL LEADER AS PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT. I AM OK WITH THE CIA LISTENING IN ON YOUR OVERSEAS CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME GUY IN A TENT IN PAKISTAN. ITS OK BY ME.
After your last flurry of specious reasoning and inane responses, I decided responding wasn’t worth the effort. You don’t want a dialogue, you want a shout down.
Enjoy (and take a Prozac, Kiddo).
Tom, analysis valid of points of difference. However, by allowing polarization, we can never find a middle course, and frankly, it seems to me that most of the good that has come out of govt legislation has been moderate, reasoned compromise.
This legislation was not the result of a moderate, reasoning, and compromising course, but from the ideology of a pressing leadership of the White House and Congress. If it was the work of many views, there would be no polarization as demonstrated by these adverse comments shown herein. This is reflective of raw power not a genuine concern for the un-insured.
Compromise among the memebers of a clan, isn’t compromise. The Dem have the whip hand and they applied it, now they will suffer the consequences.
And compromise for the sake of compromise (ala bipartisanship) is not a virtue. Some ideas are worth fighting for to the bitter end, others are simply discardable. Appeasement for the sake of getting along is not a worthwhile pursuit. Half-loafing every idea is half baked. The issues that are directional for generations to come are too important to simply meet in the middle. If we had adopted compromise attitude with slavery, should we have been happy with “half-slaves”. If we try to convicne the Taliban to cut off only half of our head, are we better off? This is a watershed moment in history where simply meeting at the 50 yard line and shaking hands and declaring a tie is not an option.
As for moderate legislation, I would love to hear specific examples. Healthcare-guess not, Cap & Trade, missed again. Financial Regulation-nobody knows what is in it, Immigration-ignored, Afghan War-not going so well, TARP, yikes, Stimulus-missed that one by a mile, Foreign policy success using the gentle approach-Iran, nice try, Mexico-trade war in progress, Hounduras-favored the leftist over the constiutional process they used to oust their power hungry leader, Israel-send the PM out the back door. Britian, distance ourselves from them. Do you want me to go on…….
No shout down requested, Just logic and reasonable thinking would be good enough.
Chirp, Chirp, Chirp.
The president needs to uphold, not deter from or destroy our Constitution. He needs to remember his oathe of office. Oh wait I forgot he completed the Oathe again with Chief Justice Roberts in his oval office after his innaugaration without a bible, why, because he stated that he didnt have one in his oval office or actually own one.
Actually, privatizing social security would have meant each person had ownership, though with very limited access, of their own accounts. This would have prevented the government from raiding the pantry and stealing all that money to begin with, instead of leaving a trail of worthless IOUs and a mountain of debt.
Headline: “Insurers to Feds: GFY!”
I always love when people say things like “Unjustified profits” or “Unjust rate increases”. What seems “unjustified” to one person might not seem unjustified to another.
Look at the numbers. Insurance companies make 3-5% profit. Thats it. The heath insurance reform bill did nothing to lower the cost of health care (which is the biggest factor in determining health insurane rates).
Another thing I don’t understand. If health insurance companies “are greedy, faceless corporations that will deny a claim and drop someone the moment they get sick” then why do you bother carrying health insurance in the first place? Oh wait, thats because the bill that was passed forces everyone to buy it. Now, before anyone brings up auto insurance, let me address that. Auto insurance is THIRD person insurance (at least in tort states). If you dont carry liability auto insurance, the person you hit suffers. If you don’t carry health insurance, only you suffer.
Dear President Chavez…I mean Obama,
Last I checked there was a thing called free speech in this country. Not only is your administration threatening companies who exercise it, your HHS Secretary is threatening to leverage your control of the market to punish them for doing so. In other words, you are pretty much doing what I was afraid you would do. You and Hugo seem to have more in common everyday.
And if it is the truth that increases are necessary because of the new law, are companies supposed to lie, just like the politicians? If they lie, the go to jail. If they do not pad the pockets of those that are picking their pockets, and obey comrade obama and his handlers, he will make sure they go out of business. Oh…that is going to happen anyway.
Obama’s minions in the adminstration know full well pandora’s box is wide open and the mere thought of this fiasco called health reform is enough to raise rates. Most of us can’t wait for the repeal of this BS when control is established after Nov of this year.
The Obama Administration is trying their best to strong arm America into a Single-Payer System and the insurers who write health insurance.
Welcome to the world of Socialism ….. The Obama Way!!!
Jim hit the nail squarely on the head. The attempt of a government to quash free speech by use of coercive measures spits in the face of our country’s foundation. And did I miss something, does the Fed now have rate regulation authority over the State?
From the comments…the Fed’s certainly believe they have control of everything be it Federal and/or State regulated…..
We can only hope the balance of power changes in November and perhaps some of this Federal rhetoric will subside.
Plus, we can only hope Obama is a one-term President…..
I thought the U.S.A. over threw Iraq’s Saddam Hussain; but from what I am witnessing we have home breed our own Dictator…Barack Hussain Obama. Of course, I still question if he is a U.S. Citizen……
Threats and intimidation. Wow, from our HHS secretary. Will be interesting to see how Robert Gibbs spins this one when asked about it. I would like to know how it is that a company can be told they must put more cost into it’s product, yet cannot charge more for said product. How can they stay afloat?
Politics. Argh.
Um, did Obama not get the message? The States regulate the insurance industry.
No more state sovereignty?
I totally missed that newscast!
Not only does he want the power to force you to buy something… now he wants the power to tell you how much it is going to cost.
What an idiot!!! I am sorry if you support Obama, but he needs to go.
…”Later this fall, we will issue a regulation that will require state or federal review of all potentially unreasonable rate increases filed by health insurers, with the justification for increases posted publicly for consumers and employers. We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded from health insurance Exchanges in 2014. Simply stated, we will not stand idly by as insurers blame their premium hikes and increased profits on the requirement that they provide consumers with basic protections.
Americans want affordable and reliable health insurance, and it is our job to make it happen. We worked hard to change the system to help consumers. It is my hope we can work together to stop misinformation and misleading marketing from the start.”
Big brother is not watching, but rather taking control.
The rank attempt at intimidation is something one would see in a banana republic. The fact that the new law mandates coverages that heretofore may not have been included in some afforable, but not cadillac, policies is bound to increase rates and on low premiuum accounts that means higher % of increases. And wait until the real mandates kick in for the 30 million uninsured. Reminds me of the old sign about the flogging will stop when the attitude changes. I hope this Admin doesn’t think we are as dumb as their political ham handedness indicates.
THis is so disgusting and “un-american” I can hardly stand to look at TV and see the faces of this “so called” politicians – it’s a slap in the face of us who are true
Americans and love this country. Yes, let’s hope that November reflects a hugh change in the Senate, Congress and our local politicians. Who does the HHS Secy think she is – just another puppet of Obama
Is there any true argument in favor of this administration/congress?
I have yet to hear one good thing about this? How did this guy get voted into office?
Is it true that Dr. Kavorkian is next in line to be charge of HHS?
Tiger–that destroyed me!
Yes Virginia, our fear of how this monstrosity of a health care overhaul is being rammed down our throats is now rearing its ugly head. And who best to be the Obama mouth-piece about warnign insurance companies about the ramifications of raising premiums because somehow they need to stay afloat than that socialist former Governor of Kansas – Kathleen Kavorkian Sebelius. That woman accepted the job in the Obama administration because she will never be elected again to the governor’s position after issuing certificates of indedebtedness to Kansas state employees when she realized that her increased taxes did not generate enough state revenues to honor its payroll obligations to its own state employees. And to think that she was even once the Kansas Commissioner of Insurance.
And of course, just like tax cheat – who is now Treasury Secretary who lorsd it over everybody else’s tax returns, Sebelius admitted to “unintentional errors” in her tax return and paid nearly $8000 in back taxes. This seems to be a recurring them among Obama’s administration cronies. What a shame!
This guy got in because people bought the promise of change. He is a typical Chicago pol and an activist.
All except far lefters who voted for him are p*ssed as they feel they got the old bait and switch routine.
November is coming.
The best theater will be how Nancy, Harry and Big O handle the defeat. I’m betting they will blame their message and the Repubs. Couldn’t possibly be they failed to do what the American people elected them to do.
Y’all want some cheese to go with that whine???! Bush was no good! Obama has a huge mess to clean up. No one could have came into this situation and satisfied Americans. So, get over yourselves!
BUSH HASN’T BEEN PRESIDENT IN ALMOST 2 YEARS!!! Obama has changed NOTHING (except the unemployment rate and deficits, which have gone UP since he took office…)
Typical Leftist response… BLAME BUSH.
Seriously, how long can you all use that excuse.
Was Bush the best president, no. Did most people like Bush, no (including myself). Was Bush better than Sen. John Kerry, yeah by a landslide. Did President Bush create the financial crisis, no (he was a part of it, but Carter (DEM) created it).
Do you look dumb when you blame Bush for Obama’s horrible leadership, yes.
Enough said.
OS, what would any Bush mess have to do with the Healtchare mess. Focus, focus, focus or are you trying to be facetious and fok us. Nice try but you are way short of the mark. Maybe its Bush derangement syndrome. Check with your local progressive talisman for a palm reading and a brain scan. I am sure that is covered in the O’care mental health plan-try page 2,695.
@Obama Supporter
Thanks for making my point. I couldn’t have said it better. The theater is grand. The excuses continue. This is better than Shakespeare. Neither party has what it takes.
As I said, the Dems will never admit they are trying to govern with
O-Supporter – Nice try, but the Blame Bush game doesn’t play with this issue. Health care was all Your Boy Barry and the Demodogs. Like the bumper sticker I saw for the Obama Bowl – Problems Solved – 0; Blame Bush – 97.
I’m sorry that most of you have no idea as to what Socialism is.
Universal healthcare is NOT socialism.
Also, someone below was indicating that insurance companies make between 2 – 5% profit. You are thinking of P&C carriers. Health insurance carriers make significantly more in profits. Profits, by the way, that are and have been growing all throug the recession. I believe the last statistic I heard where that average rates are up 400% over the last decade.
Finally, I’m not trying to endorse Obama’s plan for health insurance. To be frank, there is so much disinformation out there, that it’s hard to figure out what is going on. But I can’t believe that anyone would be against health care for children of for allowing insurers to use information that “may” indicate a person is predisposed to a certain disease.
People can easily go bankrupt in this country fighting illness when the have insurance and even though is it not their fault (ie diseases not having to do with smoking, drinking etc). Almost every one of my friends that have dealt with a life changing disease (republican or democrat) think the system is broken and needs fixed (granted, that is only 4 people, but they all had insurance).
Again, I’m not endorsing Obama’s plan per se, but I have not heard a republican plan that can deal with millions of uninsured people or keep a completely responsible person from losing everything to fight something like cancer.
when you say that Obama has done nothing. Health insurance and financial reform is not nothing. Also, he is winding down the Iraq war and winding up the Afghanistan war. Seems like he’s doing plenty, whether or not you agree with it.
HE. DIDN’T. WANT. ANY. OTHER. SOLUTIONS. He rammed this bill down our throats whether we wanted it or not. They passed a bill without even reading it! Remember “We won’t know what’s in the bill until we pass it?”
So the Republicans have not offered any solutions, huh? You must only watch NBC news then. If you really care about this country’s future and not just your own politcal ideology, copy and paste following webpage into your browser and take a look at the Republican plans: http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/
Wally, Again, I’m not indicating that I support the plan 100%, but from what I can see, the Republicans sat on their hands for a long, long time. I mean, this isn’t an issue that is recent. This has been a problem in the country for years and years. Oh, and both parties shove legislation down the others throat. There are issues on both sides.
LEM, you can jump on me as being some person that has this crazy ideology, but that’s not the case. I’m not on either extreme on any issue. I looked at that site you were talking about. Why didn’t they implement this from the years of 2000 – 2006?
I will reiterate for the third time. It’s not that I’m 100% behind this bill, but something has to be done about it, and it seems that Obama is the only one trying.
Solutions, you admonish people about knowing what socialism is and then mention “universal healthcare” in the following sentence. Boy have you made the point about socialism and who knows what about what.
By the way, here is the definition for you, enough said!
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
This system is not universal healthcare as it leaves out the other half of the uninsured. You may recall that this plan was not touted as insuring “everyone” at a cost of 1 TRILLION dollars. I can’t wait for the cost of the other half.
By the way, healthcare and insurance are two different animals. Our current healthcare system provides care for everyone, insured and uninsured. And please spare me the silliness of trying to pit opponents as being against helping children. That is an old leftist tactic that has lost its luster and affect.
As respects profit, in 2009 the avearge profit for a health insurer was 3.4% and health insurer profitability was 87th out of 215 industries. You are dead wrong in your facts.
No one believes that the system doesn’t need some work to control costs and be sure that people aren’t bankrupted by disease, injury, or medical condition, but that could have been done with a scalpel, not a cleaver. We could have developed catastrophic insurance programs backed by the gov, done tort reform, extended coverage for pre-ex and allowed competition to lower costs. We could have increased co-pays to prevent overuse of the system and worked on Medicare fraud and reimbursements to keep the cost shifting to the employer and individual plans under control. Unfortuanetly, none of this was done.
We all are looking for solutions, but this Hydra of a program is so far off the mark that nearly all Americans realize the folly of moving the government into the drivers seat on this sensitive and important issue.
So, I would say to you that you need to do your homework on socialism, the health insurance industry, and why compassion does not reside solely in the hands of “enlightened” liberals.
Are you sure he is trying to fix healthcare. “Trying” does not in and of itself garner any credit unless you have a solid basis for your actions. Face it, the American public was against this and they had to pass this in the dead of night on Christmas Eve, make so many back room deals and complicate the plan with 2,700 pages of unknowns that “trying to do something” is just not a good enough reason to give him credit or wait patiently while the bomb ticks. Its like asking all of us to tap dance on a land mine, juggle nitro, and sip gasoline while Congress looks on. Ask yourself this, if this plan was so good, why didn’t it sell itself!
To advance the debate, I offer these facts-figures as of 2009
Average amount of personal income spent
on health care: 6 percent
On housing: 39 percent
On transportation: 20 percent
On food: 14 percent
On clothing: 4 percent
Healthcare spending as a percentage of income, for those earning less than $20,000 per year: 15.5 percent
For those earning between $55,000 and $70,000: 5.1 percent
For those earning more than $70,000: 3 percent
Average increase in employer-based health insurance premiums since 1999: 120 percent
Average increase in wages since then: 29 percent
Proportion of personal bankruptcies related to illness or medical bills: 62.1 percent
Increase since 2001 in the proportion of personal bankruptcies caused by medical problems: 50 percent.
Sources: Randcompare.org; Congressional Budget Office; American Enterprise Institute; Urban Institute; National Coalition on Health Care; Kaiser Family Foundation; American Journal of Medicine
Why can’t you Democrats get over the past?
Why didn’t Clinton fix this? Why didn’t Roosevelt fix this?
Give me a break. Bush decided it was more important to go after those SOBs who rammed a plane into the WTC Towers – that is why he wasn’t doing anything with health care.
Should the President be able to accomplish everything we want him to do – yes. However, can he do everything we want – no.
Obama has decided to take on everything. Unfortunately, it’s just not feasable. On top of that, he is truly unexperienced and he doesn’t listen to the people. His sole purpose is to strengthen gov’t and the Democratic Party Platform.
What extraordinary arrogance we now see from the administration, through the mouth of its political appointee. Any of us in the business KNOW that the legislation mandated reductions in our plan benefits and in Medicare, and forced Medicare premiums to go up, and will certainly force health plans to increase premiums for all subscribers when the millions of now uninsured people are forced to buy insurance they may not need or may not want – because those who did apply for coverage will be those who couldn’t obtain it in the voluntary market due to severe health problems that I, for one, do not want to pay for.
Nobody is willing to say it, so again I will.
Say the average person eats one apple per week. Then apples get very popular, and the average person now eats one apple per day. If the supply of apples is fixed, what will happen to the price of apples?
Health care is the apple. We need a lot more healthcare and health trends are pointed the wrong way. We can’t all be 300 pounds with high blood pressure and diabetes and think everyone is magically going to get affordable health care. Joint replacement for boomers is a big new medical fad. Imagine how many more joint replacements will be needed when all these way-too-young-to-be-morbidly-obese people get older.
—
Meanwhile, our government HEAVILY subsidizes corn. All of the following contain corn: animal feed (so it’s in our meat), baking powder, corn anything, dextrin/maltodextrin, dextrose, fructose, malt, malt syrup, malt extract, mono & diglycerides, MSG, sorbitol, starch, sucrose, vegetable anything (i.e. broth, protein, shortening, etc), xantham gum, and more. It’s even in our cat food (have you ever seen a cat eat corn?).
If we’re eating nothing but corn-fed meat, artificial sugars made from corn, and the corn byproducts in a big % of packaged grocery store items, then how can anyone reasonably expect us to be healthy?
—
Bottom line, health care costs will continue to increase– largely due to our national health, largely due to benefits reaped by Billy Tauzin and Phrma back during Bush II, and also due to Medicare.
Our system will continue to degrade, and thanks largely to Medicare cuts we will see an ever increasing % of doctors make the decision to stop accepting ANY health insurance. Some of my doctors have already made this change. No insurance- not medicare, not BCBS or any other plan. Bring your checkbook. These same docs are still booked up.
We’ll eventually have the legal mandate to purchase health insurance in an environment where no competent doctors actually accept said insurance. In short you’re going to have to pay your “health care premium” but any sort of good medical care will be cash-only. A truly two-tiered system for the fewer and fewer “haves” versus the growing number of “have nots.”
Fun stuff, eh? It isn’t Obama’s fault either. This was caused by generations of political action/inactions and a rapidly increasing sedentary lifestyle combined with rapidly decreasing nutritional content of the American diet.
“Now listen you people,” says Ms. Sebelius, “don’t you dare tell people that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around. Congress can change the law of economics as surely as it can legislate new laws of physics.”
Insurance company PROFITS (not premiums, PROFITS) in 2009 over $ 11,000,000,000. Yes, they are obviously hurting tremendously…just like big oil. Tom, you are absolutely correct, they are just barely getting by.
John the Insurer…just curious is that the same physics that though privatizing SS would have been a great idea.
I guess the answer to everything is to privatize. That has worked out so well for so many of us.
Good jobs insurance folks.
Yes, it is the law of physics that Congress repealed two generations ago: the nation does not need to live within its means. Isn’t it great that in our Congress’ wisdom, we can repeal the laws of mathematics? Oh yeah, I forgot, Mrs. Sebelius’ contempt for the First Amendment permits her to change the constiutional law of responsible and free speech in the United States. Isn’t it great. Thank you, Mrs. Sebelius.
Using my name, nice touch. I don’t know where you got your “profit” fact but I doubt seriously is will hold any water. Face it, you are a “big corp” basher who will never accept the free market system. The only “big” you prefer is big government. By the way, the government is showing a 1.26 TRILLION dollar deficit so far this year with a couple of weeks to go before the fiscal year ends. That is down slightly from the over 1 TRILLION dollars in defict for last year. And, next year, the deficit is expected to again be over 1 TRILLION dollars. How does that compare to profits. Maybe you can convince your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids that “big government” is good for them!
Tom (2), some fact checking on your 11 Billion profit. Here is the info. These Top 10 Health Insurance companies make up nearly 48% of the market with revenues of $308 Billion. 11 B in “profit” is almost spot on to my figure. Which means that you have attempted to distort the discussion with a large number and completely glossed over the mathematical relationships. You also decry big oil profits but if I make 1 cent on 1 gallon of oil and Trillions of gallons are sold, that too will produce a huge “profit” number. In your world, I am suppose to ignore the realities of large numbers and focus on “obscene” profits as demonstrated by profits in the BILLIONS. That fact alone is designed to stir my outrage at capitalism and demand that these BILLIONS be returned to the people by way of government confiscation through tax policy. Nice try, but no cigar.
1. UnitedHealth Group: $80.1 billion — Market share: 12.36%
2. WellPoint Inc. Group: $56.3 billion — Market share: 8.69%
3. Kaiser Foundation Group: $48.4 billion — Market share: 7.46%
4. Aetna Group: $28.1 billion — Market share: 4.33%
5. Humana Group: $26.6 billion — Market share: 4.11%
6. Health Care Service Corporation (HCSC): $18.3 billion — Market share: 2.82%
7. American Family Corp. Group: $14.8 billion — Market share: 2.29%
8. Coventry Corp. Group: $13.1 billion — Market share: 2.02%
9. Highmark Group: $12.9 billion — Market share: 1.98%
10. Independence Blue Cross Group: $10.2 billion — Market share: 1.57%
I wonder if our > $1 trillion annual total defense spending has anything to do with the national debt…. {{{buries head in sand}}}
Matt, please get your figures straight. The 2009 fiscal year defense budget was $515.4 Billion. I guess facts get in the way of liberal group think. By the way, I think that this is a great bargain for one of the core responsibilities set forth in the Preamble of our Constitution.
P.S. You might have missed the fact that the “stimulus” was 30% more that the defense budget. And, based on the effectiveness of that spending, the bargain is even more evident.
can we all do a reality check? afterall, we keep blaming the government for actions that the industry takes first. if you think about your actions as an individual, you are electing these folks into office. it takes more than just one to pass these bills. how many of these folks have you voted and re-elected into office? how many times has your congressman voted their way and not the way of the people? everyone is quick to blame the president, true he is the leader of our nation, but if you remember, he can’t sign anything into law, until CONGRESS passes it. we can’t keep blaming the past, like carter or roosevelt, because it’s not about a person nor one particular party. what is bad is one party wants to always blame the other or take credit. what we need is a change in our politicians to those that speak for the people and as of the people and not just for themselves. we should be hearing what they do everytime and not just during the election year. now i agree everyone needs good health coverage and it should be available to all. everyone deserves the right to live as long as possible or in the best possible care. it should not matter whether rich or poor. our country needs to stop giving money away like a free credit card w/o limits for spending. time for americans to stand up as americans.
Wudchuck, I can agree, in part. The President is the one to blame as he advanced this bill, fought for it, encouraged and made backroom deals to get this passed with a parlimentary manuever against the will of the majority of the American people. There are times, decisions, and actions that absolutely attach themselves to a President, and this is one of them. Sure, some in Congress are complicit in this matter, but this President will have to shoulder full responsibility. There are watershed moments in history where Presidential action is manifest, and this is one of them. And his Demo supporters must, should and will be held accountable in Nov.
Thank you Tom, for noting one of the primary functions of the federal government is defense. One of the few delegated powers.
Reality is that if Americans stop living their life in the FAST FOOD WORLD and started actually exercising and taking care of their bodies like not smoking. Then we wouldnt have to worry about expensive insurance. Alot of desease come from how we eat. The demand is so high for Artery killing food that the manufacturers cut corners to meet demand. IF we ate less then they would focus more on quality than quantity. Why does america have to be the most obeast country in the world??
Sure, obesity is an issue. However, that is not the crux of it. Health insurance is now being used to cover nearly every single expense associated with healthcare. This is ridiculous and rewards those who use insurance more. Health insurance, much like car insurance, should be used for large, irregular expenditures. Things like hospital use, emergency rooms, extended procedures, and required surgeries. At this point, however, health insurance is covering doctor visits, chiropractic, annual checkups, basic testing (which is now required by law, thanks to the Madoff-Care scam passed by Obama/Pelosi/Reid), etc. Essentially, this is tantamount to your care insurance covering oil changes, tires, shocks, stereos, and every other part of your car that requires any kind of maintenance.
Now, please take a moment to ask yourself why this is the case. This is due to leftist politicians at the state level MANDATING insurance carriers cover these costs. So, while we are all pondering on how to lower insurance costs, perhaps we ought to first do away with mandating insurance cover MAINTENANCE ISSUES. Insurance, by definition, is not meant to cover regular, expected, or scheduled occurrances (aside from chidbirth, which can generally be scheduled – if you’re responsible, that is).
80%/20% catastrophic coverage, which includes ambulance and hospital, is not that expensive. The problem is, leftist politicians will not allow the market to offer these types of plans. Why? Votes come with what seem to be “goodies” and “freebies” – which is exactly what we are talking about when these mandates are thrown onto the backs of citizens. We all end up paying higher premiums for leftist politicians to buy more votes.
If we could simply get back to the true definition of “insurance” and also do away with frivolous lawsuits, our coverage costs would decline precipitously.
Instead, the leftist democrat party has offered greater government intrusion and fewer reasons to be conscious of, or want to control, costs. And all the while they sit in the pockets of the trial lawyers, who are essentially blackmail artists (“don’t want to pay to litigate? I’ll settle for $50k, out of court”), who then give a piece of the money scammed from us all to the democrat party. Kind of like the mafia.
Why does America have to be the most obese country in the world? Because we are one of the most prosporus ones.
Also, there are plenty of illnesses that are not due to not eating properly. To make a blanket statement as ” We wouldn’t have to worry about expensive insurance” if we somehow ate less is a falicy. Would us eating properly drasticly reduce how much it costs to heal someone after they have been involded in a horrible car accident? No. What about athletes that die of heart attacks, that are the pinical of health?
I understand where you are going with it, and yes some of America’s health problems are due to being overweight, but your statements make it seem like “if the fatties would just lose weight, we wouldn’t have any illness anymore”
if you check statistics the most costly per year and the deadliest disease all stem from the food we intake. Why doesnt china have the same cancer related deaths, or deaths from heart attacks. Why doesnt Great Britain have people dieing from strokes like in the US. The root of the insurance is how we eat. If people are healthier and stopped smoking I would say that majority of these costly operations would not exist. We can prevent accidental injuries, like a car accident or falling down stairs and that is what insurance should cover. If you treat your car like junk, driving in potholes, not doing proper maintenance does your insurance cover it? NO they cover things that are uncontrollable, or that are unintentional. If Health care did the same people would be forced to either live healthier or die at their own expense. Why live right if I can have insurance pay for triple bypass surgery and make me brand new again?
I just read an article on how much obesity costs:
(http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/09/fact.check.obesity/index.html)
“Fact Check: How much is spent annually on obesity in the United States?
• A 2009 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, along with RTI International (a nonprofit research group), found that the direct and indirect cost of obesity “is as high as $147 billion annually.” The study was based on figures collected in 2006.
• The study found that in 2006, obese patients spent an average of $1,429 more for their medical care than did people within a normal weight range. That is a 42 percent higher cost for people who are obese.
• The CDC study found that Medicare, Medicaid and private insurers increased spending due to obesity from 6.5 percent in 1998 to 9.1 percent in 2006. The figure includes prescription drug costs.
• Another 2009 study in the journal Health Affairs concluded that the costs of hospitalizations related to childhood obesity rose from $125.9 million in 2001 to $237.6 million in 2005. Bottom Line: America spends as much as $147 billion annually on the direct and indirect costs of obesity. In the year of the most recent CDC study, 2006, that made up 9.1 percent of medical spending.”
I am amazed at the obesity thread. Have we come to the point where every citizen is worried about his neighbor’s activities under the guise that “it costs me money”. That kind of mindset is scary as it can be used to justify control of nearly every human activity. For me, obesity is an issue that is best covered by information, not legislation or regulation, which seems to be the direction the commentary is heading. If I can be a bit facetious, just think of the savings that obesity brings. The obese die earlier, thus taking less out of Social Security and other programs. Maybe we should encourage obesity because it saves me money. If we really want to tackle obesity, we should all focus on getting rid of the dead weight in DC this November, starting with anyone who voted for Hellthcare.
WTF…I could care less if my neighbor wants to eat himself dead but not at my expense. The same way if you have claims on your driving record you pay more. Well they should do the same with healthcare. Why should somebody who eats right, exercises and doesnt cost the insurance company money pay the same premium as somebody who is obese and always going to the doctor and requires multiple surgeries?
Healthcare should have a format where every year you do a check up and based on the results determines your premium. If you smoke you get charged more than a non-smoker. If you have high-blood perssure you pay more. If you dont give people a reason to change their eating habits then they wont.
I couldn’t agree with you more Tom.
But to address an issue that a prior post addressed on letting people die at the own expense. I understand where he is coming from, on making people be reponsible for their own actions. But letting people die is not moral. Where would the line be drawn? “Well he was speeding, so its his problem that he is now paralzed. He can’t pay for his meds. Oh well. Guess his wife and kids will need to figure out how to make money now”
The doctors have an oath to “do no harm”.
Kevin, ever heard of experience rated policies, they have been around for eons. I guess I don’t get the fixation with ingestion of high caloric foods. May I suppose that you eventually will warm up to DNA tests to see what life has in store for everyone. Then maybe a committee that reviews in vitro chromosomal testing results to see if a child’s birth will cost your neightbors too much money. I hope I have made my point and will move on.
Tom, you have taken this to ah whole different place. Checking to see if a child might cost you money is different from somebody who CHOOSES to neglect their health. Why should I who CHOOSE not to smoke pay higher premium because somebody CHOOSES to smoke?? Why should my insurance premium go up because this person now requires lung surgery or has lung cancer and needs care? There is enough education about health out there. If you kill yourself does your family get the life insruance money? NO..So its not like because you have insurance you have an entitlement.IF the healthcare made it so that those who take care of their body benefited from lower premiums I am sure people would change their thinking. If you didnt go to jail from drinking and driving imagine how much deaths there would be in the US. Let me ask you this If I rob you and we both go to jail is that fair?
Actually your family does get your life insurance if you commit suicide (but you have to wait a year after the policy inception to do so – the suicide clause).
Not so there are a number of life insurance polices that specifically state that you will receive NO BENEFIT if the insured commits suicide. Of course companies will have clauses but the point I was making is that why should people benefit from wrong doing? If I hurt somebody I go to jail, If I dont do my job I get fired, If I cheat on my wife I will be divorced, If I smoke until my lungs are black and get lung cancer, I get the best healthcare doctors who try to make me better.
I swore i would resist this nutty blog thread but I cannot.
Some of these blogs sound dangerously close to what Dr. Mengele and the NAZIs tried, especially the genetic part…especially the poor science.
And now, (how can I resist?) a thought. Much of the food we eat is now dominated by large corporate food manufacturers that have been encouraging us to eat larger portions and to ingest sugars, salt, and other “unnatural” things in the food we eat. While we have better choices, the issue is that we have become accustomed to this way of eating….it takes a lot to break these habits…but I am sure that big business (ha ha) is happy to continue feeding us the chemicals and junk. Maybe the locavores and the vegans really have something. Unfortunately, it won’t turn profits for Kraft, General Mills, et al.
Of course, this is not to mention the chemicals that flood our environment and our bodies. Not all cancers are caused by smoking, folks. And the FDA or whoever has even less oversight powers over those chemicals that are so freely thrown around than over food. If you think that the influx of cancers, asthma and auto immune diseases in this country is not aided and abbetted by the noxious and unregulated stuff that floats around in our air and water, think again.
I am sure Dow loves its “dispersant” and Monsanto its “genetically modified” seeds. Nice to know that my well being is dependent on the folks that bought us agent orange and DDT…and over which no one seems to have oversight. or haven’t you read the media about the plastics in baby bottles? Haven’t you read the studies about growth hormones in all our meat and milk? Haven’t you read the media about seven year old females cooming into menarch? The increase in hormonally related breast cancers? So, now, hail hail for corporate self policing and the “free market” controls. They are working out nicely, doncha think?
If y’all want to be NAZIs, why don’t you NAZI around those issues?
Typical. Instead of people taking personal reponsiblity, they are quick to blame someone else. Its really easy to point the finger at “big business”. Maybe if we acutally WATCHED what we eat and get out and exersize, we might not be as fat as other countries. Sorry, I am not buying “Its all big business’ fault that I’m fat because I eat 3 double cheeseburgers a day”. Now, some people are predisposed to being larger then the average person, but those are faaaaar and few between.
Sorry, its not big business’ fault that we over induldge in foods.
In response to Obama supporter, I am tired of hearing Bush blamed for everything. Remember, he couldn’t do anything by himself without the stamp of approval from Congress, which was controlled by Democrats during his last years in office. And, unlike the Obama, Pelosi, Reid way, Bush didn’t get laws passed with dark, back room, bribery deals like this healthcare law. (The current leadership used our money to buy votes for a bill we don’t want!) We have a president, a congress and a cabinet full of Chicago-type politicians who want to ram their way of changing this country down our throats and no one better get in their way. (Corruption? That’s Chicago’s last name.) That’s the prevailing attitude in our leadership these days and it’s frightening. And, Sibelius’ admonishion to insurers about increaasing prices only shows that most of this administration is so ideologically and politically driven that they either cannot or don’t want to understand Economics 101.
The really frightening aspect of this healthcare bill is that the government will become the single payer through the back door once they put private insurers out of business by destroying their profits by regulating the premiums (just like the Chicago way of getting the bill passed in the first place, teh gov’t will bribe states to control rates) and you’ll have bureaucrats running the healthcare show – probably the same way they managed the standardized voting machine system. Notice that we’re reverting back to paper ballots after spending millions of dollars on a touch screen system that didn’t work). Boy, I can’t wait for some gov’t bureaucrat to tell me what’s good for me or what medication I should be taking (because it’s cheaper). By the way will all of them have medical degrees? And do we ultimately get assigned our own bureaucrat to serve as our primary physician or do we get passed around the office?
Nerd, for the record, i wasn’t toally blaming big business for all the obesity…just saying that the unhealthy way of eating has become the social norm in this country primarily due to the readily and fairly cheap avaialability put forth by the mega food corps. While we were sucking up all that sugary and salty garbage before we all knew how bad it and its additives were, our habits changed. Now we have to consciously break those habits which is a lot harder than just only having healthy choices to chose from. We have to reundergo a reality shift and retrain oursleves in portion size, as well as lesser refined foods.
You may want to consider blaming them for it due to the fact of all the hormones including growth hormones that are in milk, meat, dairy as well as the antibiotic overload….it’s hard to buy everything organic, folks…and it is much better than it was a few years ago….so if they put it in or inject it in, in most ways were are at their mercy….
The one question that is not being asked in these exchanges is: If this health care reform program is that wonderful, why don’t we see/hear congressmen and senators and union members telling the American people about their intentions to switch to this program when it takes effect?
Too bad you didn’t put your name on this.
Yes, “To”, that is my WHOLE point…that those who rabidly decry Obama and “liberals” in general are blinded to the fact that BOTH parties and our representatives (and I use the term loosely) are guilty of the same sins.
We ALL are getting short shrift from our government, regardless of what pole you hang on, but by savaging each other, we gain nothing but further hatred.
I have to tell you that as an “older” person, I have never heard such abject and unwarranted disrespect as that of the venom spewed by the “right” and by adults in positions of power. And I lived through the late 60’s and early 70’s…and we all know how friendly that era wash That Karl Rove is back in charge and in favor after his more recent disgraces is very troubling to me, since he has taken political discourse to a qhole new level of dirt. he did this before and he is doing it again. And he isn’t even elected by ANYBODY!
All the while, while he is playing his little naughty boy games and setting up his little demagogues, people’s lives and livlihoods are at stake and nothing is done due to this polarization which sets us against ourselves.
Sorry, if he were a leftist, I would say the EXACT same thing…
The trouble with Obama is that he tried to be a statesman. An “outsider” on the Hill gets chewed up and spit out. It would appear that to roll with the pork barrel pigs, be they blue or red, you have to get in and wallow in the mud.
No jogging, might sprain an ankle and need treatment.
No drinking, so bring your yearly debit card statement to the OboobaCare desk at the DMV so they can see how much your premium should be.
No swimming, because you could drown, get revived, and live for twenty years in a PVS costing us plenty.
No more ground beef. If you don’t cook it right you could get an e coli infection and rack up big bills.
In fact, no more meat.
Oh yeah, no sodomy, cause of AIDS and extra VD all.
We need GPS on every car to ensure that those who drive more than 20 MPH pay more because of their risky risk taking.
Outlaw salt.
Smoking is right out.
Bicycle riding is very dangerous. Banned!
Softball? Banned!
Rugby? Mega-banned!
And so on and on until we all live in Oboobatopia.
“Sebelius warned that bad actors may be excluded from new health insurance markets under the law. They’d lose out on a big pool of customers.”
IS THIS THE CHICAGO WAY OF DEALING WITH FREE SPEACH YOU DO NOT LIKE?
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION. THIS IS A BORDERLINE IMPEACHABLE FOR OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO THREATEN BUSINESS IN THIS WAY.
WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH, IF SOMEONE DOES NOT TELL IT THEN WE ALL WILL FIGURE IT OUT! THAT IS WHAT THE 1ST AMENDMENT IS ALL ABOUT. OBAMA SHOULD READ THE CONSTITUTION AND APPLY A CIVIL TONE TO THEIR COMMUNICATION WITH THE PUBLIC.
I agree with the writer’s comment. This is a totally unacceptable for a cabinet member, or anyone else holding a political position, to take. Sibelius should be fired for that Chicago-style, un-American comment. She is using her position to bully legally organized businesses here that must address the higher costs imposed on tjhem by the government or go out of business. Her rem arks are part of an underlhying agenda to usher in a government run, single-payer program, which is what this so-called whole healthcare reform program is really all about, by depriving private insurers of making any money in the climate leading up to it, thereby forcing them out of business. Ojut government is run by stealth politicians who are not upfront with their constituents and will lie, cheat and steal from us to advance their agenda.
Sarah makes an excellent point here, that I think everyone else missed or ignored.
The Constitution was created to protect the sovern rights of the States and protect the citizens from oppressive behavior from our Federal Government.
THIS IS OPPRESSIVE BEHAVIOR FROM OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! YOU CANNOT LEAGALLY THREATEN A BUSINESS FOR WHAT THEY SAY!
Whether you are liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, You have to admit this administration is way over the line with their arrogant behavior. No one on the left of center would have allowed for these threatening statements to be said by a conservative administration (Bush Admin) against a company who came out against the Iraq war a few years ago. (DEMS BE HONEST)
You never would have allowed this, Why is it ok now? Will it be ok in the future when the GOP takes over? (I dont think so!)
WE NEED ALL CITIZENS TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST ANY ADMINISTRATION WHICH ILLEAGALLY DENIES ANYONES ABILITY TO USE THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. THERE IS A REAL GOOD REASON WHY THE FOUNDING FATHERS CHOSE THIS AMENDMENT TO BE FIRST WHEN UPDATING THE CONSTITUTION. BECASUE THERE WAS A GLARING NEED TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK WITHOUT ANY RECOURSE.
Just another arrogant denial of our freedom to speak our minds.
This administration is moving from a socialist agenda to a communist agenda. I really am starting to think that Obama thinks he is King of our nation instead of a first term rookie that he is. A little humility and less talk about himself would serve him well.
OBAMA, THE OPPRESSOR
His actions speak loudly
I am an independent voter, registered democrat for primary reasons and this is very wrong for us to allow any politician democrat or republican to threaten any business for what they say.
I will not be voting for Obama again.
Jim, I am a conservative voter. I just wanted to let you know that most rebuplicans/conservatives don’t blame democrats or liberal voters for this mess.
I think it is easy for us to blame each other. But in reality, Obama promised something and then did something else.
I agree this administration as well as the encumbents in Congress need to go.
Nobama in 2012. New congress in 2011. Let’s take our country back.
That’s very mature, Al, calling the President Obooba. Y’all bet your wife and family are real proud to call you “Husband” or “Father”.
–That’s very mature, Al, calling the President Obooba.
You’re right. Sorry. It’s Barack Hussein Obooba.
My bad.
Don’t mind Al, Penny. He gets a dime for every one of these posts from the RNC. Last week he tried saying that Christine O’Donnell never admitted that she paid part of her rent with campaign funds, even though we provided links to the quote from Politico, CNN and other news sources.
Did any of you even read the article? Go on facebook if you want to chat.
I cannot believe the lack of civility and disrespect you all are showing to the office, if not the person of our President.
Sarah, you talk about impeachable actions, well, you all should consider the seditious content of what you post. It’s OK for you to rant but not Sibelius, who, by the way, was not ranting? she is “advising” the consequences of poor action.
Where were you when Cheney et. al., were abrogating our rights in the Patriot Act, or I guess that doesn’t count, right? Because you are the only patriots, right? remember the saying…when they came for the gypsies I did nothing because i wasn’t a gypsy…. You cry wolf so often you don’t even know the real thing when you see it.
Where were you when our GOP packed Supreme Court allowed corporations the same first emendment rights as natural citizens? Since when do you think that is right, huh? You who have whined about all the union money for the democrats…
you talk out of all sides of your mouth. You who whine about taking of rights, when this goes on day in and day out on all governmental levels. But as long as the GOP backs it, or rather, the right wing fringe of it, everything is all copacetic?
Since when didn’t states warn insurance carriers that they were going to be shut down if they continued their evil practices that are anti-consumer and anti-insured? But it’s different when a state does it and not the federal government?
Since when have big businesses not had resources and money to fight what they conceive to be injustices? Like the lobbying going on right now over various issues? We, the people don’t stand a snow balls chance in hell, when faced with what big business can marshall. We are shut out now from the process..which may be why you are ranting so much…but you are selecting the wrong targets…or not targeting widely enough. You swallow the cant and so we end up fighting among ourselves rather than doing the real job of cleaning house and making one man one vote start to count again…by having a Congress that is supposed to be a deliberative body instead of a bunch of self serving professional ruling class posturers.
You people are over the top…you are just too much…and nasty to boot.
I try to remain nuetral for the most part, but your prior posting forced me to say something.
Do you realize that you do the same thing as the people you accuse?
Although I agree that people in one party often times neglect the poor actions of their own representatives, you completely neglect the fact that BOTH sides do the same thing. To accuse the republicans of this and not the democrats is just plain ignorant.
Bush got way more criticism when he was in office and a lot came from his own party as well.
Everyone respects the office, but not who is currently occupying it. Yeah Obama is a nice guy, but he is truly not the right person for the job. Heck this is really his first governing job.
I feel like you speak in too broad of terms… too generalized. Just an observation.
Cass, your screeds tend to come off as a plea to give the left a chance as the right is totally corrupt. Then you attempt swing back to the middle by grazing the left with some criticism. Yes, both parties are guilty of excesses, but the party that is currently dominating the government SHOULD be castigated for its obvious failures and called to account for the direction they want this country to take.
Face it, Mr. Obama is no “outsider”, he is a political creator of the worst den of political thuggery, a Chicago politician with no private sector experince, in other words, a total “empty suit”. He has surrounded himself with academics and career politicians, very few of which have had any private sector experience. He is not a victim of the system, he is a orchastrator of the system, e.g., the back room deals and parlimentary manuevers to get this massively destructive piece of legislation passed by the slimest of margins.
I see your diatribe about Carl Rove etc as nothing more than an attempt to deflect where the real criticism lies.
If you truly believe that the people need to assert themselves then you should be a big fan of the Tea Party movement, which is based on small accountable government, spending cuts, including the military, and deflating the federal government at the same time restoring State’s rights. From you past posts, I know that this movement is an anathema to you.
This current political divide is breaking down to private sector v public sector, State’s rights v. Federal rights, and small government (programs cuts and no additional deficit spending and no tax increases) v. big governmnet (Keynesian defict spending and heavy taxations and regulation). These are bright line divisions and trying to walk the middle is not possible. You are either on one side or the other in this battle for the future direction of the county.
I just love arguing with a liberal, Its so much fun to watch them always revert to the same tactic. When confronted with facts you do not like, alway have an emotional outburst of factless illogical ridicule. (name calling).
Oh well where do I start with your outburst.
Casandra, “Where were you when our GOP packed Supreme Court allowed corporations the same first emendment rights as natural citizens?”
Do Corportation’s pay taxes, (by the way alot more than you do.) ? Do they not employ you and all of your democrat union friends? ( by the way unions do not pay taxes, because they dont make money, (right). They just own GM with your socialist buddy Obama.
Casandra, I dont know if you have heard but Bush and Cheney are not President anymore and by the way they never threatend any Union for their use of their Freedom of speach, and as I stated before they do not pay taxes and never recieved a Supreame Court ruling that says they have that right of freedom of speach.
Casandra, NEVER IN HISTORY HAS A SITTING PRESIDENT THREATENED AN INDIVIDUAL CORPORATION OR AN INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN FOR THEIR USE OF THEIR RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF SPEACH! AT LEAST NOT IN PUBLIC AND DONE WITH SUCH ARROGANCE. MAYBE NIXON, BUT WE ALL KNOW HOW TRANSPARENT AND ETHICAL HIS ADIMINSTRATION WAS.
Sorry Casandra, your plea for civility towards Obama, is falling on deaf ears as I will treat him with as much respect as he treats the Citizens and Business interest, ( The tax payers) of our great Nation.
AMEN, TOM. I certainly could not have said that any better. I am in total agreement with your sentiment.
Casandra,Regarding one of your other rants.
“Since when didn’t states warn insurance carriers that they were going to be shut down if they continued their evil practices that are anti-consumer and anti-insured? But it’s different when a state does it and not the federal government?”
STATES HAVE THE DUTY TO REGULATE INSURANCE NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE US CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN TO PROTECT THE STATES AND THEIR SOVEREGN RIGHTS AND ALL CITIZENS FROM AN OPPRESSIVE OVERBEARING REGIME LIKE WE HAVE NOW.
Casandra, Let’s review some more of your illogical outburst of ridicule.
“It’s OK for you to rant but not Sibelius, who, by the way, was not ranting? she is “advising” the consequences of poor action.” (CONSEQUENCES = THREAT) NICE WAY OF PUTTING AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL ILLEAGAL THREAT, IT ISNT IT.
Where were you when Cheney et. al., were abrogating our rights in the Patriot Act, or I guess that doesn’t count, right? Because you are the only patriots, right?
MAYBE YOU DO NOT REMEMBER, BUT 3,000. FELLOW AMERICANS DIED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001. I KNOW YOU WANT TO FORGET IT, AND MAKE IT A LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, BUT IT WAS A NATIONAL SECURITTY ISSUE. AND IF YOU HAVENT NOTICED WE HAVENT BEEN HIT AGAIN. (YET) AS LONG AS WE HAD A REAL LEADER AS PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT. I AM OK WITH THE CIA LISTENING IN ON YOUR OVERSEAS CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME GUY IN A TENT IN PAKISTAN. ITS OK BY ME.
Where’s your factual retorical response. Please refrain from the ridicule, and historical revisionist wishful thinking and blame game of Bush.
After your last flurry of specious reasoning and inane responses, I decided responding wasn’t worth the effort. You don’t want a dialogue, you want a shout down.
Enjoy (and take a Prozac, Kiddo).
Tom, analysis valid of points of difference. However, by allowing polarization, we can never find a middle course, and frankly, it seems to me that most of the good that has come out of govt legislation has been moderate, reasoned compromise.
This legislation was not the result of a moderate, reasoning, and compromising course, but from the ideology of a pressing leadership of the White House and Congress. If it was the work of many views, there would be no polarization as demonstrated by these adverse comments shown herein. This is reflective of raw power not a genuine concern for the un-insured.
Compromise among the memebers of a clan, isn’t compromise. The Dem have the whip hand and they applied it, now they will suffer the consequences.
And compromise for the sake of compromise (ala bipartisanship) is not a virtue. Some ideas are worth fighting for to the bitter end, others are simply discardable. Appeasement for the sake of getting along is not a worthwhile pursuit. Half-loafing every idea is half baked. The issues that are directional for generations to come are too important to simply meet in the middle. If we had adopted compromise attitude with slavery, should we have been happy with “half-slaves”. If we try to convicne the Taliban to cut off only half of our head, are we better off? This is a watershed moment in history where simply meeting at the 50 yard line and shaking hands and declaring a tie is not an option.
As for moderate legislation, I would love to hear specific examples. Healthcare-guess not, Cap & Trade, missed again. Financial Regulation-nobody knows what is in it, Immigration-ignored, Afghan War-not going so well, TARP, yikes, Stimulus-missed that one by a mile, Foreign policy success using the gentle approach-Iran, nice try, Mexico-trade war in progress, Hounduras-favored the leftist over the constiutional process they used to oust their power hungry leader, Israel-send the PM out the back door. Britian, distance ourselves from them. Do you want me to go on…….
No shout down requested, Just logic and reasonable thinking would be good enough.
Chirp, Chirp, Chirp.
The president needs to uphold, not deter from or destroy our Constitution. He needs to remember his oathe of office. Oh wait I forgot he completed the Oathe again with Chief Justice Roberts in his oval office after his innaugaration without a bible, why, because he stated that he didnt have one in his oval office or actually own one.
As stated before, an empty suit.