so where’s my share? afterall, i am a taxpayer and you used my money…. or should i not pay for next year’s taxes, since you have so much at stake (LOL!)…
Wudchuck, your western economy didn’t collapse b/c the 10 major banks were paid, CA was paid $1B, etc etc based on the AIG Financial claims. Crappy business for Joe Cassano and Greenberg to get into, but the reality is that they did it and if the claims from it wouldn’t have been paid, the company/Western Hemisphere would be in a SEVERE DEPRESSION.
first of all, how many americans do you know truly believe that we should have allowed all these bailouts?! we allow many small mom & pop companies to fail, but we can’t allow big ones to fail? i don’t think so… some companies just get tooo big and don’t care what they do…
if i had that much share in a company i expect to get some kind of dividend, don’t you think so? afterall, they used my tax paying dollars for this bailout… now the ultimate question, why keep giving foreign aid out and not making sure we get that paid back? how many countries do you know that we forgive the aid and still remain in the red because we are a forgiving country? folks, you can’t have it both ways and not talk about it.. so i am not a dummy… just thinking on a different thought process… we are not all the same individual, so we can think a tad bit differently (hence – the melting pot)…
I think you typed your name wrong. You don’t think we went through a depression? Are you serious?? The only difference is if the government didn’t bail all these Corporations out, we would be in the same boat, but then they would have said, “We should have bailed them out because now we are in a depression.” We would have been either way. The only difference is we’d be out by now if the government would have kept their hands out of it. AIG would be gone, other Financial and Insurance companies would be bigger and better off. Most of the AIG employees would have been hired by these other companies. But just keep watching the boob tube and what they tell you to think, you just keep believing, okay?
Wudchuck…you do not know what you are talking about.
The drawdown on the Fed Facility does not affect one American taxpayer. All banks have an account with the Federal Reserve, and the account is marked for activity. Banks support the Federal Reserve System and not taxpayers. The Federal Reserve has been profitable over the long term (unlike other government agencies).
The questions that should be asked by American taxpayers are:
a) How is AIG going to payoff the remaining debt due to the federal government when it has sold off all of its prized assets (Asian Life Insurance operations, Hartford Steam and Boiler, etc) that generate substantial revenue for the company?
b) How does the company deal with keeping a relatively talented group of employees and keep them from jumping ship to possibly more lucrative opportunities?
c) How does the company’s general insurance operations (Chartis) remain competitive over the long term when its various companies have understated reserves and have combined ratios that are well above industry leaders? (Therefore, affecting how much revenue they can make.)
If you look at where the bailiut money went to, the answer is to bail out the banks that were “inusred” by the CDS that were issued by AIG.
If AIg were not bailed out we would be in a depression that would make the depressions of the 30’s look like prosperity inc. The problem is that our wonder politicians both dem’s & repub’s allowed unqualified people to get loans , mortgages my giving banks the OK to issue mortgages with NO downpayment. This was the staging for what went bad.
Start by getting the finacials on the companies and banks and you’ll find some great reading material.
The whole problem lies with our wonderful politicans and their ability to give into the pressure of all those wonderful special interst groups-mainly banks, mortgage brokers and the real estate brokers.
And Fannie and Feddie roll along merrily, having not been a part of the financial reform. Who says those that fail to learm from history are doomed to repeat it.
Can someone please explain to me how they paid off anything here.
It was my understanding that the outstanding loans/bailouts..whatever you want to call them, gave the Government a 79.9% stake in AIG.
They say they sold off several units of the company yet now the government owns over 92%????
I’m not being sarcastic. I don’t understand how they paid anything down if the government has a bigger stake now than they did before.
I also find humor in the statements that if we didn’t bail out AIG (insert ridiculous statement about the world stopping on its axis, etc etc) the recession would have been much worse. I don’t know about the rest of you but I don’t believe any of these manipulated GDP numbers or the fact that we’re in such a better place economically speaking than we were a year ago. I think its quite the opposite. The government has spent trillions to prevent job losses and the economy from tanking. What do we have to show for that? Record deficits, record unemployment, fannie and freddie, a housing market that can’t find a bottom and more and more BS progressive policies out of Washington that are hindering any form of legitimate growth.
Its going to be very interesting to see what happens in the markets after tomorrow. Its pretty obvious the fed has been propping up the market via the notion of cheap money (QE2) for the past month…conveniently painting a rosey economic picture headed into elections…but alas i digress.
What short memories we have here. Don’t you all remember that the folks who devised the AIG bailout idea were all ex-Goldman Sachs guys (Paulson)? They were worried that should AIG fail, all the money they owed Goldman would go unpaid and Goldman would go the way of Bear Sterns and Lehman (i.e. domino effect). Maybe it’s true and maybe it’s not but, that is why people say that saving AIG prevented an even worse scenario. The end result was that Goldman got 100% paid back and the US will probably get paid back….eventually but not 100% per each dollar “invested” in AIG. It was a classic “scare the bejesus out of everyone” situation that got AIG their bailout when in actuality, nobody knew for sure what would have happened had AIG not been bailed out. I am not making judgements here but only reporting what I know…or remember. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It is amazing how much misinformation and misunderstanding there is on this topic. I am going to avoid any discussion about right or wrong. Simply some pieces of the puzzle without spin. We are talking billions here so please do not waste your time correcting me where I am off by less than $5B. Compared to most people’s claims regarding what AIG owes my numbers are accurate. Do with this what you will.
AIG has raised $36.7B toward the repayment: $16.2B for sale of ALICO; $20.5B for IPO of AIA.
The government did not loan AIG $182B. They made ~$182B available. They loaned ~$120.7B. The remaining amount is technically still available, but was never taken by AIG. The ~$120.7B was reduced to ~$83.6B because the government took ownership of the Maiden Lane assets (and receives Libor +1% interest as well as holding the assets.)
If you consider the assets transfer (which you would if you turned over your assets to your bank) the government only loaned AIG ~$83.6B.
Interest has taken the ~$83.6B to ~$101B currently owed to be paid back. This will be decreased by the $36.7B to ~$65B owed.
The 79.9% represented the amount of equity investment (stock) the government made in AIG. The ownership is currently ~78%. The government could (and will) sell this stock at whatever the prevailing value of the stock is. (Thus we should all hope AIG does well so we get a pile of money back.)
In addition to repaying the loans and the government ownership, there is interest on the loaned money. The interest on the FRBNY loan is >$20B and, as noted, is in the outstanding totals above.
Regardless of the net number lost, the US Taxpayer did help fund Goldman, which has shown a profit in excess of 10B for the last two years. Maybe AIG should have been left holding the bag, but Goldman should have not been able to avoid their risk of loss by passing it along to the Taxpayer, even for a short term. This is truly as good an example of “crony capitalism” as one can find. Complicit in all of this are the political elites of both parties. Some will be voted out this election, others will get their comeupance next round. No longer can they hide behind a party label to try to escape their role in creating this mess of an economy and then overreaching with regulations that they have exempted themselves from-i.e., Fannie and Freddie and Sallie. They may have convinced themselves that the economy is driving this resentment but they do this at their own peril. Underlying the economy are the past practices exacerbated by a free spending Congress who thinks that all moeny belongs to them. Example one of that is the very quite discussion going on in Dem circles concerning the possible invention of “Guaranteed Retirement Accounts” (GRAs) which seek to allow the gov to do away with 401ks by having us send the retirement funds to DC. They can’t stop coveting the last bit of giant “unused” cash in the private sector. Stay vigilant, America!!!!!
here’s the main question that nobody has truly sought out:
if the gov’t can truly hold 92% shares of a company, does that not meant he gov’t is controlling a business? according to our constitution, the gov’t is not allowed. the gov’t as a major shareholder has the right to control the flow of business including sales of it’s assets. after all, it can hire and fire the CEO and the board!
so if over the past 2 yrs, they have made 10 billion, should that money not technically be used to resolve getting the gov’t out of it’s shares w/in the company? should that not help the taxpayer since it is our money that help fund this bailout, get a break on our taxes! OH, did you forget the amount of defecit the gov’t is in? are we ever going to turn this around? UNLIKELY! until we get a congress in office that learns from running into debt of their own, then we won’t run out from under the debtor’s bar w/in america! we won’t be able to help folks get themselves out from underneath that umbrella.
it’s election day, let’s replace congress with a new team that can think and not react!
so where’s my share? afterall, i am a taxpayer and you used my money…. or should i not pay for next year’s taxes, since you have so much at stake (LOL!)…
You do not know what you are talking about….
wudchuck….you are a typical dumb white man with that comment.
Wudchuck, your western economy didn’t collapse b/c the 10 major banks were paid, CA was paid $1B, etc etc based on the AIG Financial claims. Crappy business for Joe Cassano and Greenberg to get into, but the reality is that they did it and if the claims from it wouldn’t have been paid, the company/Western Hemisphere would be in a SEVERE DEPRESSION.
Great. Now how about the OTHER $160 Billion the the U.S. taxpayer gave AIG that it owed to foreigners?
Freddy – I don’t know why you have to go & throw race into it
first of all, how many americans do you know truly believe that we should have allowed all these bailouts?! we allow many small mom & pop companies to fail, but we can’t allow big ones to fail? i don’t think so… some companies just get tooo big and don’t care what they do…
if i had that much share in a company i expect to get some kind of dividend, don’t you think so? afterall, they used my tax paying dollars for this bailout… now the ultimate question, why keep giving foreign aid out and not making sure we get that paid back? how many countries do you know that we forgive the aid and still remain in the red because we are a forgiving country? folks, you can’t have it both ways and not talk about it.. so i am not a dummy… just thinking on a different thought process… we are not all the same individual, so we can think a tad bit differently (hence – the melting pot)…
I think you typed your name wrong. You don’t think we went through a depression? Are you serious?? The only difference is if the government didn’t bail all these Corporations out, we would be in the same boat, but then they would have said, “We should have bailed them out because now we are in a depression.” We would have been either way. The only difference is we’d be out by now if the government would have kept their hands out of it. AIG would be gone, other Financial and Insurance companies would be bigger and better off. Most of the AIG employees would have been hired by these other companies. But just keep watching the boob tube and what they tell you to think, you just keep believing, okay?
Do Wudchucks really chuck wood?
Splash!
Hey Wudchuck, quit chucking my wood!
Splash!
LOL
Wudchuck…you do not know what you are talking about.
The drawdown on the Fed Facility does not affect one American taxpayer. All banks have an account with the Federal Reserve, and the account is marked for activity. Banks support the Federal Reserve System and not taxpayers. The Federal Reserve has been profitable over the long term (unlike other government agencies).
The questions that should be asked by American taxpayers are:
a) How is AIG going to payoff the remaining debt due to the federal government when it has sold off all of its prized assets (Asian Life Insurance operations, Hartford Steam and Boiler, etc) that generate substantial revenue for the company?
b) How does the company deal with keeping a relatively talented group of employees and keep them from jumping ship to possibly more lucrative opportunities?
c) How does the company’s general insurance operations (Chartis) remain competitive over the long term when its various companies have understated reserves and have combined ratios that are well above industry leaders? (Therefore, affecting how much revenue they can make.)
Just a few words for thought…..
If the US Government did not bail AIG and the others out, perhaps the Chinese could have.
If you look at where the bailiut money went to, the answer is to bail out the banks that were “inusred” by the CDS that were issued by AIG.
If AIg were not bailed out we would be in a depression that would make the depressions of the 30’s look like prosperity inc. The problem is that our wonder politicians both dem’s & repub’s allowed unqualified people to get loans , mortgages my giving banks the OK to issue mortgages with NO downpayment. This was the staging for what went bad.
Start by getting the finacials on the companies and banks and you’ll find some great reading material.
The whole problem lies with our wonderful politicans and their ability to give into the pressure of all those wonderful special interst groups-mainly banks, mortgage brokers and the real estate brokers.
What a great job they did.
And Fannie and Feddie roll along merrily, having not been a part of the financial reform. Who says those that fail to learm from history are doomed to repeat it.
Can someone please explain to me how they paid off anything here.
It was my understanding that the outstanding loans/bailouts..whatever you want to call them, gave the Government a 79.9% stake in AIG.
They say they sold off several units of the company yet now the government owns over 92%????
I’m not being sarcastic. I don’t understand how they paid anything down if the government has a bigger stake now than they did before.
I also find humor in the statements that if we didn’t bail out AIG (insert ridiculous statement about the world stopping on its axis, etc etc) the recession would have been much worse. I don’t know about the rest of you but I don’t believe any of these manipulated GDP numbers or the fact that we’re in such a better place economically speaking than we were a year ago. I think its quite the opposite. The government has spent trillions to prevent job losses and the economy from tanking. What do we have to show for that? Record deficits, record unemployment, fannie and freddie, a housing market that can’t find a bottom and more and more BS progressive policies out of Washington that are hindering any form of legitimate growth.
Its going to be very interesting to see what happens in the markets after tomorrow. Its pretty obvious the fed has been propping up the market via the notion of cheap money (QE2) for the past month…conveniently painting a rosey economic picture headed into elections…but alas i digress.
If you want a dividend, buy the stock and hope they declare one in the future.
What short memories we have here. Don’t you all remember that the folks who devised the AIG bailout idea were all ex-Goldman Sachs guys (Paulson)? They were worried that should AIG fail, all the money they owed Goldman would go unpaid and Goldman would go the way of Bear Sterns and Lehman (i.e. domino effect). Maybe it’s true and maybe it’s not but, that is why people say that saving AIG prevented an even worse scenario. The end result was that Goldman got 100% paid back and the US will probably get paid back….eventually but not 100% per each dollar “invested” in AIG. It was a classic “scare the bejesus out of everyone” situation that got AIG their bailout when in actuality, nobody knew for sure what would have happened had AIG not been bailed out. I am not making judgements here but only reporting what I know…or remember. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You’re right on David!
It is amazing how much misinformation and misunderstanding there is on this topic. I am going to avoid any discussion about right or wrong. Simply some pieces of the puzzle without spin. We are talking billions here so please do not waste your time correcting me where I am off by less than $5B. Compared to most people’s claims regarding what AIG owes my numbers are accurate. Do with this what you will.
AIG has raised $36.7B toward the repayment: $16.2B for sale of ALICO; $20.5B for IPO of AIA.
The government did not loan AIG $182B. They made ~$182B available. They loaned ~$120.7B. The remaining amount is technically still available, but was never taken by AIG. The ~$120.7B was reduced to ~$83.6B because the government took ownership of the Maiden Lane assets (and receives Libor +1% interest as well as holding the assets.)
If you consider the assets transfer (which you would if you turned over your assets to your bank) the government only loaned AIG ~$83.6B.
Interest has taken the ~$83.6B to ~$101B currently owed to be paid back. This will be decreased by the $36.7B to ~$65B owed.
The 79.9% represented the amount of equity investment (stock) the government made in AIG. The ownership is currently ~78%. The government could (and will) sell this stock at whatever the prevailing value of the stock is. (Thus we should all hope AIG does well so we get a pile of money back.)
In addition to repaying the loans and the government ownership, there is interest on the loaned money. The interest on the FRBNY loan is >$20B and, as noted, is in the outstanding totals above.
Regardless of the net number lost, the US Taxpayer did help fund Goldman, which has shown a profit in excess of 10B for the last two years. Maybe AIG should have been left holding the bag, but Goldman should have not been able to avoid their risk of loss by passing it along to the Taxpayer, even for a short term. This is truly as good an example of “crony capitalism” as one can find. Complicit in all of this are the political elites of both parties. Some will be voted out this election, others will get their comeupance next round. No longer can they hide behind a party label to try to escape their role in creating this mess of an economy and then overreaching with regulations that they have exempted themselves from-i.e., Fannie and Freddie and Sallie. They may have convinced themselves that the economy is driving this resentment but they do this at their own peril. Underlying the economy are the past practices exacerbated by a free spending Congress who thinks that all moeny belongs to them. Example one of that is the very quite discussion going on in Dem circles concerning the possible invention of “Guaranteed Retirement Accounts” (GRAs) which seek to allow the gov to do away with 401ks by having us send the retirement funds to DC. They can’t stop coveting the last bit of giant “unused” cash in the private sector. Stay vigilant, America!!!!!
here’s the main question that nobody has truly sought out:
if the gov’t can truly hold 92% shares of a company, does that not meant he gov’t is controlling a business? according to our constitution, the gov’t is not allowed. the gov’t as a major shareholder has the right to control the flow of business including sales of it’s assets. after all, it can hire and fire the CEO and the board!
so if over the past 2 yrs, they have made 10 billion, should that money not technically be used to resolve getting the gov’t out of it’s shares w/in the company? should that not help the taxpayer since it is our money that help fund this bailout, get a break on our taxes! OH, did you forget the amount of defecit the gov’t is in? are we ever going to turn this around? UNLIKELY! until we get a congress in office that learns from running into debt of their own, then we won’t run out from under the debtor’s bar w/in america! we won’t be able to help folks get themselves out from underneath that umbrella.
it’s election day, let’s replace congress with a new team that can think and not react!