So… if the worker’s injury is not compensable under workers’ compensation insurance, does that mean the individual may be able to turn around and file a claim in tort against the employer? I think these cases are walking a dangerous line, where the employer loses single-remedy protections and the injured individual could conceivably still be able to file a lawsuit. There’s no law saying only U.S. citizens can sue in U.S. courts, is there?
Your analysis is correct, Barb, that the employer loses single-remedy protection. IF the employer has been remiss in definitively establishing a worker’s eligible work status, though, isn’t direct suit the proper form for recovery?? We, as employers, should not be shouldering the burden in the system for workers who are not being reported and for whom premiums are not being paid. I agree with the Virginia contingent; if they are not legally eligible for work, they should not be eligible for benefits.
Tort should be allowed for the following reason: If employers did not hire illegal workers, most would not come. While we are concentrating on the means of preventing illegals from entering, the flip of the equation is to not have jobs available to them. Since the states rarely fine companies that hire illegals, nor do many companies do very good due diligence probably on purpose, let the tort system serve as an additional punishment.
Not only do illegals distort our true healthcare costs in many states, but they also serve as a large segment of the underground cash economy recipients and distort our WC system, unemployment insurance system, and social security and medicaid systems.
Why is this even being debated? If you’re here illegally than you’re not entitled to benefits. End of story. Why should anyone in the act of doing something illegal be granted any type of compensation if injured in the process of doing something illegal? What states should do now is go through their listings of who is receiving any kind of state assistance to check if they are U.S. citizens or not. If they aren’t, then benefits should stop immediately.
I think you legitamize illegals by allowing them to collect WC benefits. Perhaps if an employer is using them by not doing due diligence, they should be sued in the Tort system. They would think twice before hiring if they knew the employee was illegal and would not be covered by WC. As a practical matter, most illegals don’t want to file a claim because they fear getting sent back. There have probably been a number of injuries that didn’t get reported to the employer.
I note that the sub did not carry WC, and benefits were asserted against the next tier where WC coverage was in place. So if tort remedies are sought, is action brought against the actual employer, the next tier, or both? In the latter two, what duty does the next tier have to the sub, sub employees, and regulatory authorities as to the status of the sub’s injured worker? If any duty exists, how far down the “sub line” does the duty extend? Curious.
My solution is to provide medical but not lost wage benefits.
Hiring an illegal work force should not absolve an employer of its duty to maintain a safe work environment. However, said illegal worker is not entitled to be reimbursed for wages that he should not be being paid in the first place.
How is an employer going to have safety meetings and explain safe work rules to employees who basically do not understand English? They almost have to have an interpreter who speaks both languages to explain it to them. Life is very complex in this country. It is no wonder that the nation is in decline.
Treat the injury and then when they are ready to return to work, call ICE and have them shipped out. Illegal is illegal and have no right to be here unless they do the proper things for work visas or citizenship.
From the comments, it would appear that none of the commentators know the restrictions that employers face regarding establishing legal status. Yes, the applicant must fill out an I-9. But the SS card and drivers license presented as proof of residency CANNOT be questioned by the employer. If the employer asks any question regarding validity, the EEOC will be on them “like a duck a=on a june bug”.
Anyone presenting fake papers to secure a job is committing an intentional act which is a federal crime.
Illegal: Not Legal. Employers are illegally hiring illegal immigrants. Employer should pay out of his pocket any injury to the illegal worker and then be arrested for hiring the illegal worker in the first place. The illegal worker should get arrested for being in this country illegally. No workers compensation, no law suit no nothing. For the employer and the employee.
If you are looking to hire a 43 year old carpenter that is allegedly a citizen, but speaks no English, THERE’S YOUR SIGN.
If his clothing is from Mercado Guzman and not WalMart, THERE’s YOUR SIGN.
I am truly tired of excuses being made for employers who most knowingly hire illegals…and get off scott free while distorting the market for everyone else. I am also tired of shoddy safety standards especially in construction trades because the illegals can’t complain.
Hiring illegals is tantamount to having a semi slave class in this country….and it’s effects are felt up and down the line, from overcrowded emergency rooms, to inadequate WC premiums, to poor safety standards.
If the goods will cost more to have legitimate American workers, or legitimate foreign workers do the job, so be it; this country consumes too much anyway…mayb be a reality check is in order.
These claims are very problematic. Many states allow WC coverage despite being hired under false pretenses. Yet in NC, can deny a claim if they lied about prior injuries so Go figure. The “smart” illegals go back to their homeland prior to being discharged from treatment and collect their tax free WC benefits indefinitely as we can not locate them to refer to appropriate treatment to get them discharged. It takes forever to get approval to stop the week benefits. Somewhere, there is a whole slew of them living it up.
Illegals will always come no matter what. Claims should be paid only in situations where payroll has been reported and premium has been collected. More punishment needs to be enforced for employers hiring illegals and not reporting their payroll/paying premium.
So… if the worker’s injury is not compensable under workers’ compensation insurance, does that mean the individual may be able to turn around and file a claim in tort against the employer? I think these cases are walking a dangerous line, where the employer loses single-remedy protections and the injured individual could conceivably still be able to file a lawsuit. There’s no law saying only U.S. citizens can sue in U.S. courts, is there?
If you are working illegally and not paying taxes, you don’t get a thing. There should be no debate about this.
Your analysis is correct, Barb, that the employer loses single-remedy protection. IF the employer has been remiss in definitively establishing a worker’s eligible work status, though, isn’t direct suit the proper form for recovery?? We, as employers, should not be shouldering the burden in the system for workers who are not being reported and for whom premiums are not being paid. I agree with the Virginia contingent; if they are not legally eligible for work, they should not be eligible for benefits.
Tort should be allowed for the following reason: If employers did not hire illegal workers, most would not come. While we are concentrating on the means of preventing illegals from entering, the flip of the equation is to not have jobs available to them. Since the states rarely fine companies that hire illegals, nor do many companies do very good due diligence probably on purpose, let the tort system serve as an additional punishment.
Not only do illegals distort our true healthcare costs in many states, but they also serve as a large segment of the underground cash economy recipients and distort our WC system, unemployment insurance system, and social security and medicaid systems.
Why is this even being debated? If you’re here illegally than you’re not entitled to benefits. End of story. Why should anyone in the act of doing something illegal be granted any type of compensation if injured in the process of doing something illegal? What states should do now is go through their listings of who is receiving any kind of state assistance to check if they are U.S. citizens or not. If they aren’t, then benefits should stop immediately.
I think you legitamize illegals by allowing them to collect WC benefits. Perhaps if an employer is using them by not doing due diligence, they should be sued in the Tort system. They would think twice before hiring if they knew the employee was illegal and would not be covered by WC. As a practical matter, most illegals don’t want to file a claim because they fear getting sent back. There have probably been a number of injuries that didn’t get reported to the employer.
I note that the sub did not carry WC, and benefits were asserted against the next tier where WC coverage was in place. So if tort remedies are sought, is action brought against the actual employer, the next tier, or both? In the latter two, what duty does the next tier have to the sub, sub employees, and regulatory authorities as to the status of the sub’s injured worker? If any duty exists, how far down the “sub line” does the duty extend? Curious.
My solution is to provide medical but not lost wage benefits.
Hiring an illegal work force should not absolve an employer of its duty to maintain a safe work environment. However, said illegal worker is not entitled to be reimbursed for wages that he should not be being paid in the first place.
How is an employer going to have safety meetings and explain safe work rules to employees who basically do not understand English? They almost have to have an interpreter who speaks both languages to explain it to them. Life is very complex in this country. It is no wonder that the nation is in decline.
Treat the injury and then when they are ready to return to work, call ICE and have them shipped out. Illegal is illegal and have no right to be here unless they do the proper things for work visas or citizenship.
In my opinion they should be fixed and shipped.I am questionable pertaining to any compensation as far as payment for injuries.
From the comments, it would appear that none of the commentators know the restrictions that employers face regarding establishing legal status. Yes, the applicant must fill out an I-9. But the SS card and drivers license presented as proof of residency CANNOT be questioned by the employer. If the employer asks any question regarding validity, the EEOC will be on them “like a duck a=on a june bug”.
Anyone presenting fake papers to secure a job is committing an intentional act which is a federal crime.
No benefits, no right to sue. Nothing.
Illegal: Not Legal. Employers are illegally hiring illegal immigrants. Employer should pay out of his pocket any injury to the illegal worker and then be arrested for hiring the illegal worker in the first place. The illegal worker should get arrested for being in this country illegally. No workers compensation, no law suit no nothing. For the employer and the employee.
Margaret:
You obviously have no experience in the constraints placed on employers to verify legal status.
“Under the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), illegal immigrants are prohibited from working in the United States.”
The above statement from the article answers the questions! This is a no brainer here!!!
1) It is an felony to be in the USA without proper documentation. This is the definition of ILLEGAL!!!
2) The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), illegal immigrants are prohibited from working in the United States.”
BASED ON THIS TWO MATTERS IT IS ILLEGAL TO BE IN THE USA AND TO WORK IN THE USA WITHOUT PROPER DOCUMNETATION!!!
So of course NO WORKER”S COMPPENSATION for illegal employment!!! And ARREST ON A FELONY AND DEPORT each of the illegal workers!
This should be a matter of no seconf thought….2 crimes have been committed..PUNISH NOT REWARD the crime!!!!
Ever person who engages in illegal / criminal activity does so knowing the potential of consequences / punishment for the criminal activity.
If someone comes to the USA illegally, gets illegal employment and gets injured…consequences of the action!!! If you do the crime, you do the time!
NO REWARDS FOR BREAKING THE LAWS!!!!!
Ron
If you are looking to hire a 43 year old carpenter that is allegedly a citizen, but speaks no English, THERE’S YOUR SIGN.
If his clothing is from Mercado Guzman and not WalMart, THERE’s YOUR SIGN.
I am truly tired of excuses being made for employers who most knowingly hire illegals…and get off scott free while distorting the market for everyone else. I am also tired of shoddy safety standards especially in construction trades because the illegals can’t complain.
Hiring illegals is tantamount to having a semi slave class in this country….and it’s effects are felt up and down the line, from overcrowded emergency rooms, to inadequate WC premiums, to poor safety standards.
If the goods will cost more to have legitimate American workers, or legitimate foreign workers do the job, so be it; this country consumes too much anyway…mayb be a reality check is in order.
These claims are very problematic. Many states allow WC coverage despite being hired under false pretenses. Yet in NC, can deny a claim if they lied about prior injuries so Go figure. The “smart” illegals go back to their homeland prior to being discharged from treatment and collect their tax free WC benefits indefinitely as we can not locate them to refer to appropriate treatment to get them discharged. It takes forever to get approval to stop the week benefits. Somewhere, there is a whole slew of them living it up.
Illegals will always come no matter what. Claims should be paid only in situations where payroll has been reported and premium has been collected. More punishment needs to be enforced for employers hiring illegals and not reporting their payroll/paying premium.