It seems like Senior management should be concerned with a situation that required their agents to affliate with a union. Whats to stop the other 90% of their agents from doing the same thing? You would think the message would be clear to their management? In stead they indicate they are not concerned? Go figure
The other 90% of agents who are not members of the organization are not members for a reason and unlikely that this group would ever come close to supporting a union. Most Americans of regardless of political party do not support unions, yet small business owners are the most politically conservative people out there, so it’s even more so unlikely that this group would want anything to do with a union.
The other 90 % may be afraid of retaliation, as has happened for every small reason they can muster up.
Lets hope, for the good of the American worker, that the other 90% get brave and unite as their is strength in numbers.
Remember Jesus suffered for ALL of us, maybe suffering, (retaliation) just goes with the course.
I find it quite funny that this group, very small group of mostly former Allstate Agents complain about being treated as employees, that they are really independant and then they go and join an employee union….funny isn’t it.
Part of the problem here is that these small business owners are bahaving as if they are employees, the other part if that Allstate is to some degree treating them as employees. Yet true business owners evaluate their current conditions and make changes. If you have a bad supplier, you look at other options, you turn to what is available in the marketplace. Part of the problem is unions is that they want to dictate the marketplace and disrupt what really allows for us to have a productive and succesful economy. I further beleive this is a political move, since the organization has less than 15% of Allstate Agents as members. This will not be a solution or hope for these Allstate Agents, those who are not happy have thousands of options out there and taking advantage of the marketplace is much better option than sitting and hoping that a union will save the day.
You do understand the concept and difference of being an agent with Allstate (or equivelent company) vs being an Independant Agent right?
In one case the company owns your book of business and tells you who you can write with, and how much you need to write. To do otherwise invites a lawsuit that alleges contratual violations.
In the other, you own your own book of business and choose whom you want to write with.
Unfortunately, that is the agreement when someone chooses to associate with Allstate. If the company violates your contract (I beleive this is actually happening), there are three viable choices:
1. Choose to terminate the contract and move on to better opportunities
2. Take Legal Action
3. Do nothing
I think the first option is by far the best choice, you win this in the long run. If more agents exercised their right in the marketplace, this is significantly more powerful than any union can do for Allstate Agents.
Great. Unfortunately, those of us who have built successful agencies based on relationship and referral based marketing, without the parent company’s help, are stuck and are basically without the option of
1. Terminating the contract. OK, then what? The entire book of business, (in my case, about $350K income per year) goes to…you guessed it, the parent company. Add the no compete clause in and you have now flushed away many years work.
2. Take legal action. Really? See “terminating the contract, supra.”
3. Do nothing. Hmmm. That should help.
Actually, if more agents had the balls to stand up against the unequal bargaining position created by these agency contracts (union clout?) things might change. What position would Allstate be in if its agents decided NOT to do business for two weeks?
Lets see. YOU signed that contract! You are making 350k a year to do next to nothing! Sell your agency, PLEASE! Get out you bunch of cry babies. You know why you won’t leave and just keep bitching and moaning. Because you are making 350k a year. Spoiled old timer brats! Thats what that group is, a bunch of old timer cry babies that don’t want anything to ever change. They want it the way it was 20 years ago. Times change Bud. Join or get out of the way. All us newcomers will buy you all out no problem. I’ll take that 350k a year off your hands since its soooooo burdensome. Evendently you made dumb decisons in the past and remain as employee is my guess? You are going to complain after years of 350k a year as an employee?? I can’t wait till all you brats are gone from Allstate.
As an Independent Agent, I am glad I am not constrained by a captive contract and told what to do by senior management. These guys affiliated with Allstate and listened to all the pie in the sky about how wonderful it would be with such a great brand and competitive products. Allstate probably helpe fund many of them so they could get started. Now that the company has thrown them under the bus, they want a union to represent them to management. Why do I think this will end badly? My guess is that a couple of thousand affected agents will no longer be Allstate agents in a year or so.
You’re so right Agent. I just terminated an agreement with a company because I didn’t like playing their game. I can’t imagine being in a position where I wouldn’t be free to do this.
I was a captive agent with American Family for 9 years and had enough. No matter how much I excelled the company wanted more. I split the connection (using an attorney) and started an independent agency in 1999, what a blast! If you don’t like being ‘controlled’ boot Allstate and start over, it is well worth the effort and the business will be yours.
While I wouldn’t recommend going that route for all captives, if you’ve got some money in the bank and you don’t mind learning a few new tricks, there’s not much downside to going independent in the long run.
Their senior management should be concerned about this. Most likely, this group of agents will be the whiners and complainers who will always be bashing Allstate internally. Not good for Allstate.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if Allstate will soon be selling their products and services only through independent agents and the internet, instead of captive agents.
From what I have seen from postings by State Farm agents in Florida, a good many of them have Independents on the side and they channel business to them due to the challenges of Florida Property insurance. If State Farm non renews homes, they find a market through their independent facilities. We certainly hand Allstate and State Farm their head in Texas. I think the Independents will continue to recoup market share here.
Yes indeed. The Florida STATE FARM agents don’t need a union. They have something MUCH MORE POWERFUL… an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “On The Side” However, it beguiles me the BLOOMINGTON is oblivious or condones this very Corporately Unsettling trend… because…
Apparently, The CAPTIVES cant control their agents. If you are a loyal captive agent, working hard within the captive guidelines, and you do not have an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE” to roll ALL of your business to (if you and corporate have a disagreement) You are a SAP. I feel sorry for the loyal agents within State Farm and Allstate, etc that DON’T have an independent “ON THE SIDE”. They are FOOLS. Apparently the captive carriers don’t know or don’t care how vulnerable they are when their captive agency force has Independent Agencies “On The Side”… Those “On The Side” Independent Agencies become PRIMARY real quick and make a MOCKERY of the captive agency system and all of the remaining (if any) loyal captive agents!
You’re right about a lot of them. Spouse, son, sibling, or all of the above will have an independent shop setup with commission sharing. This kind of thing is difficult to prove though which is why they get away with it.
My comment refers to those who don’t have “family in the business.”
I remember a day when a State Farm agent was SHUT DOWN by corporate just for selling AMWAY on the side. Operating an Independent “On The Side” would certainly be a much greater distraction, and DETRIMENT to the company. I really wonder how BLOOMINGTON can be so OBLIVIOUS to how demoralizing and destabalizing these “rogue” State Farm agents are to the very company that has given them such a huge oportunity and to the (what must be few, if any, remaining LOYAL) State Farm agents????
August 18, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Chris says:
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The morale of Allstate agents in some areas is probably low. I have been one for 11 years and I am doing fine thank you. If you work hard at this job you are rewarded. The last thing I would want is to be represented by a union populated mostly by those who simply don’t understand that concept.
Confusing positions being presented here – they don’t like being treated like employees when they say they are actually independents..but they don’t like being classified as independent contractors under IRS rules…? Maybe a better article would clear up the positions.
Now, the real long term problem: While I can’t profess to understand the Allstate v agent dynamic, it troubles me that “independents” would want to collectivize. Seems like a slippery slope that could (has in other industries)lead to strong-arm tactics eventually – For example, is it entirely ridiculous to envision a future of unionized agents colluding with unionized companies to force the insurance placement only with unionized agencies? I assure you, the unions have already envisioned this. The Fed is hyper aggressive about anti-competitive business behavior and price fixing, but they too often ACT powerless to stop the anti-competitive, arm twisting thuggery that occurs behind the curtain when the actors are unions. Troubling junk.
The core issue is simple: Allstate classifies their captive agents as independent contractors, but exercises control over them as if they are employees. The benefits to Allstate are obvious, as are the problems for agents. If management simply treated agents as ICs are required to be treated, there would be no problem. I suspect that NAPAA voted to join the union when management kept cheating them and no government agency would step up to right the wrong.
WIAA Insurance Services has the welcome mat out for Allstate agents looking to exit their captive environment and go independent. We’ve got access to top P/C markets. Essentially, your agency could be appointed and writing business in 24 hours! Great commission. Marketing assistance. No production requirements. Top notch underwriters (who will actually call you back!). Visit http://www.wiaainsurance.com and let’s partner!
Allstate has various distribution options, and it would be real easy for them to promote alternatives over the captive force, such as supporting IA appointed Allstate agents, Encompass agents or Esurance.
IAs would love to have a carrier which spends the kind of money Allstate does promoting their brand. It sounds to me the Allstate agents who are whining need to make a business decision. If they are fat and happy, but aren’t willing to grow, maybe they should hookup with a younger, more aggressive owner. If they are small and unable to cut the mustard, maybe it’s time to get out or time to join up with others. These are the sort of decisions IAs have to make on a regular basis, but the last thing we would do is blame our carriers for our inability to adapt or change.
We’ve already got that in Progressive. Flo has legitimized the brand and my personal and commercial auto sales have been up because of it. I don’t want or need Allstate affiliated companies.
The welcome mat is out at WIAA Insurance Services for Allstate agents looking to exit their captive environment and go independent. We’ve got access to top P/C markets. Essentially, your agency could be appointed and writing business in 24 hrs.! Great commission… marketing assistance… no production requirements… and top notch underwriters (who will actually call you back!). Visit wiaainsurance.com and let’s partner!
Independent? Allstate dictates the number of hours you work, the holidays that you can close the office and has unattainable quotas. Threatening letters are sent out on a regular basis. Where is the independent status? The contract changes many times a year and the agents have no input. The agents only own the financial interest and not the acccounts. To start a new agency from scratch is not easy. The morale is company wide. Not just a few agents. There is more to this story.
In prior years, the allure of being an Allstate, State Farm or Farmers agent was attractive since the companies painted a rosy picture, touted the national advertising to bring in business and funded many of these guys to get them started. The bad publicity they are getting now will slow down the newly licensed guys who were going to go with them and they may become producers for a large independent with the hope of being an agency owner some day.
Yes Allstate states that an office must be open 44 hours a week. Why? Because so many agents were not even open for 20! Yes you must be open around the holidays. Why? Because agents were closing for weeks at a time! This group is so full of BS. The next complaint is that the phones have to be forwarded to Allstate….so lets get this right, their complaints.
They want to open and close when they want….
Close for weeks of vacation if they want….
Not forward their phone numbers if customers need anything…..
So basically not work, not service the customers, just do whatever they want……man you guys are idiots.
So can the owner of Subway close for a couple weeks around Christmas?
Professional and Union are an oxymoran. You want to be a professional, a business owner, an independent? Then do so. You want to be a worker, and do what others say you have to? Then join a union. You can’t have it both ways. You knew the situation when you joined Allstate. I never wanted to be told what to sell a client, so I’ve always been an IA. And believe me, I’ve dropped many a company when they wanted me to sell a product that wasn’t good for my client.
Just wow – the old “10% rule” – sounds like sour grapes to me – agents that probably shouldn’t be agents. I agree with above, “what part of ‘independent’ didn’t they understand?”
No self-respecting conservative with a shred of “personal accountability” would affiliate with a union – ESPECIALLY not the AFIL-CIO with their thug like tactics.
Must be that 10% liberal I keep hearing about in the insurance industry….
Just this weekend, our wonderful President was in Detroit trying to explain why they have 16% unemployment there and blaming the Republicans yet again. His union buddy, Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. said they were his army and they were prepared to take the SOB Tea Party out for him. This doesn’t sound like the new age of civility to me. If you have no plan, the idea is to try to discredit or destroy your opponent.
Wow. It amazes me how many people out there don’t understand the dynamics of what this is about. Let me illucidate:
1. Independent Contractor v Employee: Read the IRS rules for this one. Allstate, Farmers and State Farm all engage in the practice of inserting themselves into the small businesses of their agents. They decide WHAT is sold, WHEN it is sold, BY WHOM it is sold, HOW MUCH is to be sold, WHERE it is sold. They place quotas on their agents. The FIRE agents who do not meet these quotas. How can one be FIRED from their own small business. When they FIRE these agents, they OWN the customers, the office space leased and paid for by the agent, the telephone lines associated with the agency. Does this sound like a small business OWNED and OPERATED by an independent contractor? I managed a large employee based for a national corporation for 10 years. Sounds like employees to me.
2. “Just cancel your contract” Good idea. Flush many years of hard work building a large agency and clientele down the toilet and start over. Oh yeah, never mind the “non compete” clause in the agency agreement.
3. “The only ones complaining are the ones who don’t want to work hard” Really? Are you kidding me? We have put our heart and souls, our money, our blood, sweat and tears into this agency and its clientele reflects this. How does this equate to not working hard? How does this justify the poor treatment and the ever present threat of contract cancellation by the parent company? (Think about it, what do THEY have to lose?)
4. Sue them. This one may come to its fruition and unionization of all captive agents may by the driving factor. Poor accounting practices, short commissions, quotas, terminations, calculation of agency values.
Finally, I agree with the previous post that what all this amounts to is the parent companies slow push to squeeze out the captive agents so that they can move their products through IA’s and e-commerce.
These captive agents have been frustrated and discouraged for some time. As an independent, I have been approached by Allstate & Farmers agents who want to set up a producer agreement with me to funnel business to us that they can’t do. I also hear from my marketing reps who have been bombarded with requests from captive agents to appoint with them. The really smart ones have figured out a way to move business or set up an Independent agency since the captive system is dysfunctional and they have been thrown under the bus by management. Look for this to continue and the boys in the ivory tower will see their nationwide volume decline in the near future.
You can sell many different policies to many different people at any time you want. If those slacker agents out there had not taken advantage of a good thing none of this would be happening. If agents had not been closing their doors, hiding their offices, covering their signs so they didn’t have to help customers none of this would be happening. But because of the same people who are complaining about it caused it….just get to work and stop your whining.
when my allstate agent retired, corporate sent me a letter saying I did not need an agent, could deal directly with corporate.
I blasted corporate in a reply that they did not respect their agents and should never try to undermine the clients relationship with an agent. I chose another allstate agent who later retired and I later switched to their independent affiliate, Encompass.
Now they are buying Esurance to sell online and further undermine agents and agencies. I switched to Safeco, even though they were bought by Liberty Mutual who sells direct. Agents are the backbone of the industry.
Actually, Safeco tried the direct route for a while when they had a former Progressive dude in charge of Personal Lines. That didn’t work out so well so they canned him and went back to promoting the agency force for their customers. They have been growing steadily since with the backing of Liberty Mutual. All this boils down to who is in charge and what is their vision for their company. Allstate has definitely lost their way and there is a price to be paid for their decisions. More business for the Independents in the near and far future.
Corporations keep firing people so when the government gives a tax cut for hiring, they can get MORE tax breaks. This was done in 2010, it expired, and it about to happen again.
Tricky dicky ways of corporations to screw the tax payers again. TAX reform…roll back the Bush Era tax cuts for the Corporations NOW ! email your representatives no matter what party they are and tell them enough is enough!
Bank of America announced a restructuring the other day and laid off 10,000 employees. Did they not receive billions on the TARP bailout? I guess they are running low on funds again. Watch them suddenly start hiring again in 6 months so they can get tax breaks for “creating jobs”. What a scheme! They really know how to game the government for maximum benefits.
Does the company even care? Really? The days of the broker controling insurers is about over. Consumers are controlling the insurers ways of doing business its all about the costs the internet is free….sad to admit that.
I guess that in reading this discussion about Allstate agents organizing in a ‘union’ the question that I have is, “How does this differ from the United Farmers Agents Association?” http://www.ufaa.com/
If it is truly a union or collective bargaining unit, what leverage do they have to be able to both retain their agencies and bargain for benefits. Would membership be limited to captive Allstate agents only or would it include the Independent agents as well?
OMG! Captive’s you don’t need to unionize. There is a MUCH GREATER POWER in the Captive’s favor… Open an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE”. Every State Farm “captive” agent in Florida is doing it and THEY LOVE IT. The BIG RED SIGN gets the client in, and the State Farm Agent and Staff stear it to the “Independent on the Side”… AUTO, LIFE, ANNUITY, HOME (YES, THE GOOD BUSINESS) is ALL going to the Indepdent “On The Side”. I just spoke with a State Farm Agent in FL and they eased 3000 Sq Ft in a plaza… 1500sf for the State Farm Agency and 1500 for the INDEPENDENT AGENCY ON THE SIDE. Captive Agents of America, Have your Cake and Eat Your Corporate Office’s LUNCH TOO! Open an Indepdent “On The Side” and be TRULY LIBERATED… Don’t wory, apparently there is NOTHING your Captive Corporate Office can do to you. Don’t mis the buss! It’s a much better RIDE!
BEEP BEEP… “What do you mean I need to write more Life Insurance, I just BOUND 3 Universal Life Polcies via my INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE”…
Farmers has had this going on for some time with their corporate management. I have had three different Farmer’s agents wanting to channel business through us since they couldn’t get anything done with their facilities. I believe this problem is strictly a captive issue. No Independent in their right mind would join a guild or union and pay membership in it. A smart Independent has a variety of companies to quote and write business through. Once in a while, we have to say bye bye for the non performing ones and appoint with a new one who has good offerings. If a company comes down with an edict from on high that we don’t like, they generally don’t write much new business with us.
It seems like Senior management should be concerned with a situation that required their agents to affliate with a union. Whats to stop the other 90% of their agents from doing the same thing? You would think the message would be clear to their management? In stead they indicate they are not concerned? Go figure
The other 90% of agents who are not members of the organization are not members for a reason and unlikely that this group would ever come close to supporting a union. Most Americans of regardless of political party do not support unions, yet small business owners are the most politically conservative people out there, so it’s even more so unlikely that this group would want anything to do with a union.
Citation needed please.
The other 90 % may be afraid of retaliation, as has happened for every small reason they can muster up.
Lets hope, for the good of the American worker, that the other 90% get brave and unite as their is strength in numbers.
Remember Jesus suffered for ALL of us, maybe suffering, (retaliation) just goes with the course.
I find it quite funny that this group, very small group of mostly former Allstate Agents complain about being treated as employees, that they are really independant and then they go and join an employee union….funny isn’t it.
Yes: and the “silence of the lambs” ; all of us standing on the sidelines & whistling in the dark is deafening
Part of the problem here is that these small business owners are bahaving as if they are employees, the other part if that Allstate is to some degree treating them as employees. Yet true business owners evaluate their current conditions and make changes. If you have a bad supplier, you look at other options, you turn to what is available in the marketplace. Part of the problem is unions is that they want to dictate the marketplace and disrupt what really allows for us to have a productive and succesful economy. I further beleive this is a political move, since the organization has less than 15% of Allstate Agents as members. This will not be a solution or hope for these Allstate Agents, those who are not happy have thousands of options out there and taking advantage of the marketplace is much better option than sitting and hoping that a union will save the day.
You do understand the concept and difference of being an agent with Allstate (or equivelent company) vs being an Independant Agent right?
In one case the company owns your book of business and tells you who you can write with, and how much you need to write. To do otherwise invites a lawsuit that alleges contratual violations.
In the other, you own your own book of business and choose whom you want to write with.
Unfortunately, that is the agreement when someone chooses to associate with Allstate. If the company violates your contract (I beleive this is actually happening), there are three viable choices:
1. Choose to terminate the contract and move on to better opportunities
2. Take Legal Action
3. Do nothing
I think the first option is by far the best choice, you win this in the long run. If more agents exercised their right in the marketplace, this is significantly more powerful than any union can do for Allstate Agents.
Great. Unfortunately, those of us who have built successful agencies based on relationship and referral based marketing, without the parent company’s help, are stuck and are basically without the option of
1. Terminating the contract. OK, then what? The entire book of business, (in my case, about $350K income per year) goes to…you guessed it, the parent company. Add the no compete clause in and you have now flushed away many years work.
2. Take legal action. Really? See “terminating the contract, supra.”
3. Do nothing. Hmmm. That should help.
Actually, if more agents had the balls to stand up against the unequal bargaining position created by these agency contracts (union clout?) things might change. What position would Allstate be in if its agents decided NOT to do business for two weeks?
Best advice? Start out as an independent.
Lets see. YOU signed that contract! You are making 350k a year to do next to nothing! Sell your agency, PLEASE! Get out you bunch of cry babies. You know why you won’t leave and just keep bitching and moaning. Because you are making 350k a year. Spoiled old timer brats! Thats what that group is, a bunch of old timer cry babies that don’t want anything to ever change. They want it the way it was 20 years ago. Times change Bud. Join or get out of the way. All us newcomers will buy you all out no problem. I’ll take that 350k a year off your hands since its soooooo burdensome. Evendently you made dumb decisons in the past and remain as employee is my guess? You are going to complain after years of 350k a year as an employee?? I can’t wait till all you brats are gone from Allstate.
4) Join a union.
As an Independent Agent, I am glad I am not constrained by a captive contract and told what to do by senior management. These guys affiliated with Allstate and listened to all the pie in the sky about how wonderful it would be with such a great brand and competitive products. Allstate probably helpe fund many of them so they could get started. Now that the company has thrown them under the bus, they want a union to represent them to management. Why do I think this will end badly? My guess is that a couple of thousand affected agents will no longer be Allstate agents in a year or so.
You’re so right Agent. I just terminated an agreement with a company because I didn’t like playing their game. I can’t imagine being in a position where I wouldn’t be free to do this.
I was a captive agent with American Family for 9 years and had enough. No matter how much I excelled the company wanted more. I split the connection (using an attorney) and started an independent agency in 1999, what a blast! If you don’t like being ‘controlled’ boot Allstate and start over, it is well worth the effort and the business will be yours.
While I wouldn’t recommend going that route for all captives, if you’ve got some money in the bank and you don’t mind learning a few new tricks, there’s not much downside to going independent in the long run.
Their senior management should be concerned about this. Most likely, this group of agents will be the whiners and complainers who will always be bashing Allstate internally. Not good for Allstate.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if Allstate will soon be selling their products and services only through independent agents and the internet, instead of captive agents.
This is why State Farm Agents will always kick your butts Allstate!!
This is why State Farm Agents will always kick your butts!
State Farm is just as guilty as Allstate in many instances. Talk to any Florida State Farm agent to get a feel for things.
From what I have seen from postings by State Farm agents in Florida, a good many of them have Independents on the side and they channel business to them due to the challenges of Florida Property insurance. If State Farm non renews homes, they find a market through their independent facilities. We certainly hand Allstate and State Farm their head in Texas. I think the Independents will continue to recoup market share here.
Yes indeed. The Florida STATE FARM agents don’t need a union. They have something MUCH MORE POWERFUL… an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “On The Side” However, it beguiles me the BLOOMINGTON is oblivious or condones this very Corporately Unsettling trend… because…
Apparently, The CAPTIVES cant control their agents. If you are a loyal captive agent, working hard within the captive guidelines, and you do not have an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE” to roll ALL of your business to (if you and corporate have a disagreement) You are a SAP. I feel sorry for the loyal agents within State Farm and Allstate, etc that DON’T have an independent “ON THE SIDE”. They are FOOLS. Apparently the captive carriers don’t know or don’t care how vulnerable they are when their captive agency force has Independent Agencies “On The Side”… Those “On The Side” Independent Agencies become PRIMARY real quick and make a MOCKERY of the captive agency system and all of the remaining (if any) loyal captive agents!
You’re right about a lot of them. Spouse, son, sibling, or all of the above will have an independent shop setup with commission sharing. This kind of thing is difficult to prove though which is why they get away with it.
My comment refers to those who don’t have “family in the business.”
I remember a day when a State Farm agent was SHUT DOWN by corporate just for selling AMWAY on the side. Operating an Independent “On The Side” would certainly be a much greater distraction, and DETRIMENT to the company. I really wonder how BLOOMINGTON can be so OBLIVIOUS to how demoralizing and destabalizing these “rogue” State Farm agents are to the very company that has given them such a huge oportunity and to the (what must be few, if any, remaining LOYAL) State Farm agents????
The morale of Allstate agents in some areas is probably low. I have been one for 11 years and I am doing fine thank you. If you work hard at this job you are rewarded. The last thing I would want is to be represented by a union populated mostly by those who simply don’t understand that concept.
Confusing positions being presented here – they don’t like being treated like employees when they say they are actually independents..but they don’t like being classified as independent contractors under IRS rules…? Maybe a better article would clear up the positions.
Now, the real long term problem: While I can’t profess to understand the Allstate v agent dynamic, it troubles me that “independents” would want to collectivize. Seems like a slippery slope that could (has in other industries)lead to strong-arm tactics eventually – For example, is it entirely ridiculous to envision a future of unionized agents colluding with unionized companies to force the insurance placement only with unionized agencies? I assure you, the unions have already envisioned this. The Fed is hyper aggressive about anti-competitive business behavior and price fixing, but they too often ACT powerless to stop the anti-competitive, arm twisting thuggery that occurs behind the curtain when the actors are unions. Troubling junk.
The core issue is simple: Allstate classifies their captive agents as independent contractors, but exercises control over them as if they are employees. The benefits to Allstate are obvious, as are the problems for agents. If management simply treated agents as ICs are required to be treated, there would be no problem. I suspect that NAPAA voted to join the union when management kept cheating them and no government agency would step up to right the wrong.
WIAA Insurance Services has the welcome mat out for Allstate agents looking to exit their captive environment and go independent. We’ve got access to top P/C markets. Essentially, your agency could be appointed and writing business in 24 hours! Great commission. Marketing assistance. No production requirements. Top notch underwriters (who will actually call you back!). Visit http://www.wiaainsurance.com and let’s partner!
Allstate has various distribution options, and it would be real easy for them to promote alternatives over the captive force, such as supporting IA appointed Allstate agents, Encompass agents or Esurance.
IAs would love to have a carrier which spends the kind of money Allstate does promoting their brand. It sounds to me the Allstate agents who are whining need to make a business decision. If they are fat and happy, but aren’t willing to grow, maybe they should hookup with a younger, more aggressive owner. If they are small and unable to cut the mustard, maybe it’s time to get out or time to join up with others. These are the sort of decisions IAs have to make on a regular basis, but the last thing we would do is blame our carriers for our inability to adapt or change.
We’ve already got that in Progressive. Flo has legitimized the brand and my personal and commercial auto sales have been up because of it. I don’t want or need Allstate affiliated companies.
Fire them all. Let them picket and strike, who do they hurt? themselves because their clients will leave.
What about the word “Independent” did they not understand?
LOL…. Way too funny!
The welcome mat is out at WIAA Insurance Services for Allstate agents looking to exit their captive environment and go independent. We’ve got access to top P/C markets. Essentially, your agency could be appointed and writing business in 24 hrs.! Great commission… marketing assistance… no production requirements… and top notch underwriters (who will actually call you back!). Visit wiaainsurance.com and let’s partner!
Independent? Allstate dictates the number of hours you work, the holidays that you can close the office and has unattainable quotas. Threatening letters are sent out on a regular basis. Where is the independent status? The contract changes many times a year and the agents have no input. The agents only own the financial interest and not the acccounts. To start a new agency from scratch is not easy. The morale is company wide. Not just a few agents. There is more to this story.
So the question is simple…Why bother being an Allstate agent? Certainly this “union” won’t help things.
In prior years, the allure of being an Allstate, State Farm or Farmers agent was attractive since the companies painted a rosy picture, touted the national advertising to bring in business and funded many of these guys to get them started. The bad publicity they are getting now will slow down the newly licensed guys who were going to go with them and they may become producers for a large independent with the hope of being an agency owner some day.
Yes Allstate states that an office must be open 44 hours a week. Why? Because so many agents were not even open for 20! Yes you must be open around the holidays. Why? Because agents were closing for weeks at a time! This group is so full of BS. The next complaint is that the phones have to be forwarded to Allstate….so lets get this right, their complaints.
They want to open and close when they want….
Close for weeks of vacation if they want….
Not forward their phone numbers if customers need anything…..
So basically not work, not service the customers, just do whatever they want……man you guys are idiots.
So can the owner of Subway close for a couple weeks around Christmas?
Professional and Union are an oxymoran. You want to be a professional, a business owner, an independent? Then do so. You want to be a worker, and do what others say you have to? Then join a union. You can’t have it both ways. You knew the situation when you joined Allstate. I never wanted to be told what to sell a client, so I’ve always been an IA. And believe me, I’ve dropped many a company when they wanted me to sell a product that wasn’t good for my client.
Just wow – the old “10% rule” – sounds like sour grapes to me – agents that probably shouldn’t be agents. I agree with above, “what part of ‘independent’ didn’t they understand?”
No self-respecting conservative with a shred of “personal accountability” would affiliate with a union – ESPECIALLY not the AFIL-CIO with their thug like tactics.
Must be that 10% liberal I keep hearing about in the insurance industry….
Just this weekend, our wonderful President was in Detroit trying to explain why they have 16% unemployment there and blaming the Republicans yet again. His union buddy, Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. said they were his army and they were prepared to take the SOB Tea Party out for him. This doesn’t sound like the new age of civility to me. If you have no plan, the idea is to try to discredit or destroy your opponent.
What a sight it would be to see the Allstate Agent and his staff walking the picket line outside of his own office. Now that’s priceless.
Don’t you love life’s little ironies?
Wow. It amazes me how many people out there don’t understand the dynamics of what this is about. Let me illucidate:
1. Independent Contractor v Employee: Read the IRS rules for this one. Allstate, Farmers and State Farm all engage in the practice of inserting themselves into the small businesses of their agents. They decide WHAT is sold, WHEN it is sold, BY WHOM it is sold, HOW MUCH is to be sold, WHERE it is sold. They place quotas on their agents. The FIRE agents who do not meet these quotas. How can one be FIRED from their own small business. When they FIRE these agents, they OWN the customers, the office space leased and paid for by the agent, the telephone lines associated with the agency. Does this sound like a small business OWNED and OPERATED by an independent contractor? I managed a large employee based for a national corporation for 10 years. Sounds like employees to me.
2. “Just cancel your contract” Good idea. Flush many years of hard work building a large agency and clientele down the toilet and start over. Oh yeah, never mind the “non compete” clause in the agency agreement.
3. “The only ones complaining are the ones who don’t want to work hard” Really? Are you kidding me? We have put our heart and souls, our money, our blood, sweat and tears into this agency and its clientele reflects this. How does this equate to not working hard? How does this justify the poor treatment and the ever present threat of contract cancellation by the parent company? (Think about it, what do THEY have to lose?)
4. Sue them. This one may come to its fruition and unionization of all captive agents may by the driving factor. Poor accounting practices, short commissions, quotas, terminations, calculation of agency values.
Finally, I agree with the previous post that what all this amounts to is the parent companies slow push to squeeze out the captive agents so that they can move their products through IA’s and e-commerce.
These captive agents have been frustrated and discouraged for some time. As an independent, I have been approached by Allstate & Farmers agents who want to set up a producer agreement with me to funnel business to us that they can’t do. I also hear from my marketing reps who have been bombarded with requests from captive agents to appoint with them. The really smart ones have figured out a way to move business or set up an Independent agency since the captive system is dysfunctional and they have been thrown under the bus by management. Look for this to continue and the boys in the ivory tower will see their nationwide volume decline in the near future.
Weak weak weak…so weak
You can sell many different policies to many different people at any time you want. If those slacker agents out there had not taken advantage of a good thing none of this would be happening. If agents had not been closing their doors, hiding their offices, covering their signs so they didn’t have to help customers none of this would be happening. But because of the same people who are complaining about it caused it….just get to work and stop your whining.
Have you heard of the Independent Insurance Agents of America??
Elucidate.
when my allstate agent retired, corporate sent me a letter saying I did not need an agent, could deal directly with corporate.
I blasted corporate in a reply that they did not respect their agents and should never try to undermine the clients relationship with an agent. I chose another allstate agent who later retired and I later switched to their independent affiliate, Encompass.
Now they are buying Esurance to sell online and further undermine agents and agencies. I switched to Safeco, even though they were bought by Liberty Mutual who sells direct. Agents are the backbone of the industry.
Actually, Safeco tried the direct route for a while when they had a former Progressive dude in charge of Personal Lines. That didn’t work out so well so they canned him and went back to promoting the agency force for their customers. They have been growing steadily since with the backing of Liberty Mutual. All this boils down to who is in charge and what is their vision for their company. Allstate has definitely lost their way and there is a price to be paid for their decisions. More business for the Independents in the near and far future.
Corporations keep firing people so when the government gives a tax cut for hiring, they can get MORE tax breaks. This was done in 2010, it expired, and it about to happen again.
Tricky dicky ways of corporations to screw the tax payers again. TAX reform…roll back the Bush Era tax cuts for the Corporations NOW ! email your representatives no matter what party they are and tell them enough is enough!
Bank of America announced a restructuring the other day and laid off 10,000 employees. Did they not receive billions on the TARP bailout? I guess they are running low on funds again. Watch them suddenly start hiring again in 6 months so they can get tax breaks for “creating jobs”. What a scheme! They really know how to game the government for maximum benefits.
Does the company even care? Really? The days of the broker controling insurers is about over. Consumers are controlling the insurers ways of doing business its all about the costs the internet is free….sad to admit that.
I guess that in reading this discussion about Allstate agents organizing in a ‘union’ the question that I have is, “How does this differ from the United Farmers Agents Association?” http://www.ufaa.com/
If it is truly a union or collective bargaining unit, what leverage do they have to be able to both retain their agencies and bargain for benefits. Would membership be limited to captive Allstate agents only or would it include the Independent agents as well?
OMG! Captive’s you don’t need to unionize. There is a MUCH GREATER POWER in the Captive’s favor… Open an INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE”. Every State Farm “captive” agent in Florida is doing it and THEY LOVE IT. The BIG RED SIGN gets the client in, and the State Farm Agent and Staff stear it to the “Independent on the Side”… AUTO, LIFE, ANNUITY, HOME (YES, THE GOOD BUSINESS) is ALL going to the Indepdent “On The Side”. I just spoke with a State Farm Agent in FL and they eased 3000 Sq Ft in a plaza… 1500sf for the State Farm Agency and 1500 for the INDEPENDENT AGENCY ON THE SIDE. Captive Agents of America, Have your Cake and Eat Your Corporate Office’s LUNCH TOO! Open an Indepdent “On The Side” and be TRULY LIBERATED… Don’t wory, apparently there is NOTHING your Captive Corporate Office can do to you. Don’t mis the buss! It’s a much better RIDE!
BEEP BEEP… “What do you mean I need to write more Life Insurance, I just BOUND 3 Universal Life Polcies via my INDEPENDENT AGENCY “ON THE SIDE”…
Farmers has had this going on for some time with their corporate management. I have had three different Farmer’s agents wanting to channel business through us since they couldn’t get anything done with their facilities. I believe this problem is strictly a captive issue. No Independent in their right mind would join a guild or union and pay membership in it. A smart Independent has a variety of companies to quote and write business through. Once in a while, we have to say bye bye for the non performing ones and appoint with a new one who has good offerings. If a company comes down with an edict from on high that we don’t like, they generally don’t write much new business with us.
Poor fools, look what happened to the unionized john hancock p&c agents in the 1980’s. union was worthless