A sad ending to what was once a leading commercial lines carrier. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) the past three years, I’m not surprised.
Does anyone remember a guy named Mike LaRocca who was made CEO several years ago. This is a guy who Safeco cut loose from VP Personal Lines and he tried the direct route with Safeco and tried to make them like Progressive (where he came from) and it didn’t work so well so he was fired by the CEO. The next we heard from him was with Fireman’s Fund and he obviously didn’t have much success with them either. Since then, they have gone through several others. Now, it appears they are toast.
LaRocca was involved in a startup commercial carrier called AssureStart that is affiliated with American Family. However,I believe he recently left that gig due to family issues.
Luckily, Safeco recognized LaRocca’s vision was going to lead to their ruin, so CEO Paula Reynolds showed him the door and told him to not let it hit him in the butt on the way out.
I remember Mike LaRocca – he was the catalyst that caused me to leave the company after working there over 12 years. His “vision” was exactly as you described and because I was handling professional liability and he had FFIC competing with the GEICO’s, Progressives, etc.; I left. He did not stay long but long enough to have people disinterested in his “vision” and leaving the company. Too bad because I loved working there when it was a viable exciting company to work at!
Fireman’s Fund Personal Insurance Operations suffered from a lack of consistent top leadership and loss of focus. Over the last 15 years, there have been a parade of Personal Lines Executives. Every two to three years the FUND hired a new savior from outside who in turn brought in their own entourage. The game plan was to blame the prior executive, reorganize and after two years depart to “pursue other opportunities”. If you looking for excellent middle management material and well trained seasoned underwriters, start calling their staff now.
The Marin County paper stated Fireman’s Fund CEO Andrew Torrance, was the seventh chief executive since 2004. He replaced Lori Fouche in June 2013. Can anyone think of a well managed business that had seven CEOs in this same time span?
“I remember when the Fund was a large, capable carrier in the marketplace.”??
Agent- You must be a lot older than I! ;-)
When I started in insurance in 1983 FF was inhaling and exhaling employees in waves annually. I got calls every other year trying to hire me away. I told them I wasn’t boarding that sinking ship. Their HR people always admitted only they had safe tenure…to support firing and hiring in waves. So in the last 7 years, even their CEOs lack tenure/safe harbor. Current CEO is in there just to ride that ship to ground so it can then be thoroughly scuttled. The circle of life.
Yes insexpert, I am more experienced than you and have been doing this probably before you were a gleam in your fathers eye. Fireman’s Fund was a pretty large player in the marketplace back in the 80’s & 90’s and I ran up against them a lot.
We wrote a TON of business with the Fund back in the early ’90’s. They were gobbling up market share for less than losses. They and Crum and Forster. Hmmmmmmm. Where are they both now?
What a sad outcome for what was once a leading commercial writing company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) they’ve had the past three years, I’m not surprised.
What a sad ending to what was once a leading and innovative commercial insurance company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) demonstrated the past 2-3 years, I’m not surprised, other than it could’ve happened sooner. They could never control their internal expenses and seemed to keep higher “top level” people who never brought in any business.
Oh, then you should try it sometime, Agent. Instead, you like to get political and paste from Drudge and Hannity. Be sure to continue not to provide a source for your “dribbel” (your word, not mine).
On an aside, I’ll agree with your commentary above about LaRocca. Dude is a hack!
I wonder why it took the German’s so long to figure this out. FFIC is a prime example of a company that failed to innovate and adapt to the changing technological landscape. Senior management was inept. Middle management was a laughable bunch of yes men who went with the flow afraid to tell it like it was. All too happy to keep the status quo. I have absolutely no idea what product people did at FFIC. HA. There were never any new products! Fouche saw the writing on the wall. Why did they bring in a CEO from the UK on the verge of retirement again? Oh wait, it makes sense now. Go to wine country, enjoy yourself, tell us exactly how bad it is then ride off into the sunset.
I worked at FFIC for close to 4 years, and this was a long time coming with part of FFIC being sold off now. FFIC has failed in all aspects of running a business. Not respecting your employees (you can’t blame the adjusters for “performance issues” now), the revolving door in the CEO’s office, a complete turnover of senior management over two years, not having a clear understanding of the markets they were getting into, and FFIC constantly losing money for the last five years plus. And Mike LaRocco wanted to invest $100 million of Allianz money into the personal lines market when he was in charge (which never materialized)? The fauly lies on the inept senior management that drove FFIC to this point.
“This move gives our commercial p&c business greater direction and focus,” adds Andrew Torrance, CEO of Fireman’s Fund Insurance Company.
Can someone explain to me how this is a positive for Fireman’s Fund? As an agent, I hesitate to place business with a carrier in limbo like this. Allianz Global and Fireman’s Fund are 2 completely different companies with completely different underwriting appetites. Entertainment and Farm & Ranch seem to be the only success stories at the Fund.
This makes me so sad! I worked at FFIC from the late 95 to 2007. It has been awful watching it fall apart, watching the mass exodus.. Its not a surprise, but a very sad reality.
“San Francisco, by dint of fire and earthquake, has heretofore learned the value of insurance. San Francisco was cheered, while the great fire was still sweeping through the city, by the announcement that technicalities would be waived. When San Francisco stands again, with the awful events of April 1906, a tremendous share of the credit will belong to these great business concerns, which put no quibble in the way of payment of losses, despite the fact that jointly tens of millions could have been saved to their treasuries.” From San Francisco’s Great Disaster by Sydney Tyler (pub. 1906), and my obituary for FFIC.
The Great Chicago Fire in 1871 and the Great San Francisco EQ & Fire in 1906 both brought the Company to its knees, but couldn’t break it. Alas, it died a slow whimpering death at the hands of a few wing-tipped weanies from wall street looking to cash-out and then followed up by a few more who seemed to always be looking for magic bullets. Allianz never understood the US commercial “middle market” or what to do with the FFIC distribution channels at its fingertips.
Goodbye Firehat, hello Imperial Eagle – sure to give the American market the warm fuzzies.
I had forgotten all about “Still Flying And Nailed To The Mast”-I still have a copy laying about somewhere.
I worked at FFIC from the end of the “lets get growing” days until the late 90’s. Enjoyed working there nice people and actually the plans weren’t all that bad. But it seemed like no one ever allowed the plans to come to fruition and the only thing that was a constant was the push for market share. As a BDM, if I had a $1MM new business production month, then the RUE/Regional President/whatever they were called that year was happy. He didn’t care about my team’s loss ratio, which tended to be 2nd in the region year in and year out. And my direct manager, a regional VP was replaced about every 18 months or so.
Any word on what happens to the HO folks in Novato or those in the regions? There are still some nice foks there whom I hope and pray are able to stick with the new organization.
Most everyone would agree on the plans never being able to come to full potential. As an employee we were always fully aware that Allianz wasn not happy with our results. But Allianz must accept part of the responsibility with their disillusionment with Fireman’s Fund performance. They created the revolving door with senior management, year after year, and really decade after decade.
It really took them 23+ years to figure out FF should be merged into ACGS? FF is a good company and AZ is a good company — but it is completely inexplicable why they took SOOOOO long to come to this conclusion. Mind boggling, just nutso.
I started working at FFIC in 1973,and stayed for 31 years. I loved the company and it seemed to flourish, until purchased by Allianz. Allianz never had any good comments about FFIC and every meeting they were never happy with FFIC or their results. Too bad American Express didn’t keep us!
I was thinking about this a bit more. After FFIC was bought by Allianz, they dropped Allianz of America-their std mid market business and ran the policies through us. Very little was acceptable much less profitable-it was really E&S stuff. I was told that they looked to FFIC to run upscale personal lines, mid market business and the marine book and Allianz would do large property,WC and then a few specialty lines because they didn’t have expertise for the things FFIC did.
Fair enough, but now 23 years later is that expertise somehow contained in Allianz where it wasn’t before? Given their-Allianz’ track record in the US over the course fo time they’ve tried to have a presence in the US, I would have to ask some hard questions of the shot callers on this deal as it doesn’t really make sense from an ex managers perspective unless they are just shedding expense via HO employees as well as overlap in the various field offices.
I worked at FFIC for 13 years. Came out of the USN in 1988 and started out in the mail room then took courses and worked my way up from there to an Workers Comp. assigned risk rater / UW assistant E & SR dept./ UW E & SR Dept. Enjoyed my time with FFIC but once they centralized the support staff (no longer in the branch offices) around 1999 the writing was on the wall. Upper management had no real direction and before I knew alot of staff was let go and my work load was too much to handle for one person on a very minimal salary. It really all about people and relationsships and somehow this got lost along the way. I have since moved on but still cherish the good memories of having worked there.
I think the Fund single-handedly caused the last really hard market in 2001. They artifically lowered rate by buying up market share and the industry couldn’t compete and absorb the losses.
Sad news for what was once a great company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning lack of) the past three years, I’m not surprised.
A sad ending to what was once a leading commercial lines carrier. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) the past three years, I’m not surprised.
Does anyone remember a guy named Mike LaRocca who was made CEO several years ago. This is a guy who Safeco cut loose from VP Personal Lines and he tried the direct route with Safeco and tried to make them like Progressive (where he came from) and it didn’t work so well so he was fired by the CEO. The next we heard from him was with Fireman’s Fund and he obviously didn’t have much success with them either. Since then, they have gone through several others. Now, it appears they are toast.
LaRocca was involved in a startup commercial carrier called AssureStart that is affiliated with American Family. However,I believe he recently left that gig due to family issues.
Luckily, Safeco recognized LaRocca’s vision was going to lead to their ruin, so CEO Paula Reynolds showed him the door and told him to not let it hit him in the butt on the way out.
I remember Mike LaRocca – he was the catalyst that caused me to leave the company after working there over 12 years. His “vision” was exactly as you described and because I was handling professional liability and he had FFIC competing with the GEICO’s, Progressives, etc.; I left. He did not stay long but long enough to have people disinterested in his “vision” and leaving the company. Too bad because I loved working there when it was a viable exciting company to work at!
Fireman’s Fund Personal Insurance Operations suffered from a lack of consistent top leadership and loss of focus. Over the last 15 years, there have been a parade of Personal Lines Executives. Every two to three years the FUND hired a new savior from outside who in turn brought in their own entourage. The game plan was to blame the prior executive, reorganize and after two years depart to “pursue other opportunities”. If you looking for excellent middle management material and well trained seasoned underwriters, start calling their staff now.
The Marin County paper stated Fireman’s Fund CEO Andrew Torrance, was the seventh chief executive since 2004. He replaced Lori Fouche in June 2013. Can anyone think of a well managed business that had seven CEOs in this same time span?
I remember when the Fund was a large, capable carrier in the marketplace. They are only a shell now due to mismanagement over the course of years.
I’m sure each of the 4 prior CEO’s grabbed there bag of gold going out the door!
“I remember when the Fund was a large, capable carrier in the marketplace.”??
Agent- You must be a lot older than I! ;-)
When I started in insurance in 1983 FF was inhaling and exhaling employees in waves annually. I got calls every other year trying to hire me away. I told them I wasn’t boarding that sinking ship. Their HR people always admitted only they had safe tenure…to support firing and hiring in waves. So in the last 7 years, even their CEOs lack tenure/safe harbor. Current CEO is in there just to ride that ship to ground so it can then be thoroughly scuttled. The circle of life.
Yes insexpert, I am more experienced than you and have been doing this probably before you were a gleam in your fathers eye. Fireman’s Fund was a pretty large player in the marketplace back in the 80’s & 90’s and I ran up against them a lot.
We wrote a TON of business with the Fund back in the early ’90’s. They were gobbling up market share for less than losses. They and Crum and Forster. Hmmmmmmm. Where are they both now?
well Crum is in the living gettin’ it on. and forster ain’t leavin’ til 6 in the mornin’. so whatchu gonna do?
What a sad outcome for what was once a leading commercial writing company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) they’ve had the past three years, I’m not surprised.
What a sad ending to what was once a leading and innovative commercial insurance company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning complete lack of) demonstrated the past 2-3 years, I’m not surprised, other than it could’ve happened sooner. They could never control their internal expenses and seemed to keep higher “top level” people who never brought in any business.
Very sad, indeed.
Are all you posters cut & pasting? They are all pretty much the same comment.
I agree What’s. You know what, it doesn’t take much time to type in an original thought and hit the comments button.
Oh, then you should try it sometime, Agent. Instead, you like to get political and paste from Drudge and Hannity. Be sure to continue not to provide a source for your “dribbel” (your word, not mine).
On an aside, I’ll agree with your commentary above about LaRocca. Dude is a hack!
Sounds like they should put Mo Rocca in charge
Who is the toolbag repeatedly posting the same message under different names? We get it already.
Horrible downward spiral for what was once a great company. However, with the “leadership” (meaning lack of) the past three years, I’m not surprised.
I wondered that as well! Maybe I should sue for plagiarism!! :)
Good one Scott.
Does anyone have insight regarding where their Agribusiness unit falls into this equation?
It won’t be plowed under or covered with fertlizer. Whoops, this isn’t a Friday. Sorry AgAgent, couldn’t resist.
I would imagine Farmer’s would take them over. “We are Farmer’s bum ba dum bum bum bum”
Funny.
Absorbing in to AGCS along with Entertainment biz
I wonder why it took the German’s so long to figure this out. FFIC is a prime example of a company that failed to innovate and adapt to the changing technological landscape. Senior management was inept. Middle management was a laughable bunch of yes men who went with the flow afraid to tell it like it was. All too happy to keep the status quo. I have absolutely no idea what product people did at FFIC. HA. There were never any new products! Fouche saw the writing on the wall. Why did they bring in a CEO from the UK on the verge of retirement again? Oh wait, it makes sense now. Go to wine country, enjoy yourself, tell us exactly how bad it is then ride off into the sunset.
So who is going to buy them?
I’m sure buyers are lining up around the corner for a book with a combined loss ratio pushing 130%.
FF commerical biz is running a high loss ratio. the Personal Lines is making money.
Yeah, but barely… Results have been lackluster at best for a long time and that is without any EQ’s.
I worked at FFIC for close to 4 years, and this was a long time coming with part of FFIC being sold off now. FFIC has failed in all aspects of running a business. Not respecting your employees (you can’t blame the adjusters for “performance issues” now), the revolving door in the CEO’s office, a complete turnover of senior management over two years, not having a clear understanding of the markets they were getting into, and FFIC constantly losing money for the last five years plus. And Mike LaRocco wanted to invest $100 million of Allianz money into the personal lines market when he was in charge (which never materialized)? The fauly lies on the inept senior management that drove FFIC to this point.
“This move gives our commercial p&c business greater direction and focus,” adds Andrew Torrance, CEO of Fireman’s Fund Insurance Company.
Can someone explain to me how this is a positive for Fireman’s Fund? As an agent, I hesitate to place business with a carrier in limbo like this. Allianz Global and Fireman’s Fund are 2 completely different companies with completely different underwriting appetites. Entertainment and Farm & Ranch seem to be the only success stories at the Fund.
It isn’t. They are doomed. Resumes are flying into my office.
This makes me so sad! I worked at FFIC from the late 95 to 2007. It has been awful watching it fall apart, watching the mass exodus.. Its not a surprise, but a very sad reality.
I hate that company from the bottom of my soul. I hope it crashes and burns. They are slimy weasels who deserve what they get.
“San Francisco, by dint of fire and earthquake, has heretofore learned the value of insurance. San Francisco was cheered, while the great fire was still sweeping through the city, by the announcement that technicalities would be waived. When San Francisco stands again, with the awful events of April 1906, a tremendous share of the credit will belong to these great business concerns, which put no quibble in the way of payment of losses, despite the fact that jointly tens of millions could have been saved to their treasuries.” From San Francisco’s Great Disaster by Sydney Tyler (pub. 1906), and my obituary for FFIC.
“Still Flying And Nailed To The Mast” no more.
The Great Chicago Fire in 1871 and the Great San Francisco EQ & Fire in 1906 both brought the Company to its knees, but couldn’t break it. Alas, it died a slow whimpering death at the hands of a few wing-tipped weanies from wall street looking to cash-out and then followed up by a few more who seemed to always be looking for magic bullets. Allianz never understood the US commercial “middle market” or what to do with the FFIC distribution channels at its fingertips.
Goodbye Firehat, hello Imperial Eagle – sure to give the American market the warm fuzzies.
I had forgotten all about “Still Flying And Nailed To The Mast”-I still have a copy laying about somewhere.
I worked at FFIC from the end of the “lets get growing” days until the late 90’s. Enjoyed working there nice people and actually the plans weren’t all that bad. But it seemed like no one ever allowed the plans to come to fruition and the only thing that was a constant was the push for market share. As a BDM, if I had a $1MM new business production month, then the RUE/Regional President/whatever they were called that year was happy. He didn’t care about my team’s loss ratio, which tended to be 2nd in the region year in and year out. And my direct manager, a regional VP was replaced about every 18 months or so.
Any word on what happens to the HO folks in Novato or those in the regions? There are still some nice foks there whom I hope and pray are able to stick with the new organization.
Most everyone would agree on the plans never being able to come to full potential. As an employee we were always fully aware that Allianz wasn not happy with our results. But Allianz must accept part of the responsibility with their disillusionment with Fireman’s Fund performance. They created the revolving door with senior management, year after year, and really decade after decade.
It really took them 23+ years to figure out FF should be merged into ACGS? FF is a good company and AZ is a good company — but it is completely inexplicable why they took SOOOOO long to come to this conclusion. Mind boggling, just nutso.
I started working at FFIC in 1973,and stayed for 31 years. I loved the company and it seemed to flourish, until purchased by Allianz. Allianz never had any good comments about FFIC and every meeting they were never happy with FFIC or their results. Too bad American Express didn’t keep us!
I was thinking about this a bit more. After FFIC was bought by Allianz, they dropped Allianz of America-their std mid market business and ran the policies through us. Very little was acceptable much less profitable-it was really E&S stuff. I was told that they looked to FFIC to run upscale personal lines, mid market business and the marine book and Allianz would do large property,WC and then a few specialty lines because they didn’t have expertise for the things FFIC did.
Fair enough, but now 23 years later is that expertise somehow contained in Allianz where it wasn’t before? Given their-Allianz’ track record in the US over the course fo time they’ve tried to have a presence in the US, I would have to ask some hard questions of the shot callers on this deal as it doesn’t really make sense from an ex managers perspective unless they are just shedding expense via HO employees as well as overlap in the various field offices.
I worked at FFIC for 13 years. Came out of the USN in 1988 and started out in the mail room then took courses and worked my way up from there to an Workers Comp. assigned risk rater / UW assistant E & SR dept./ UW E & SR Dept. Enjoyed my time with FFIC but once they centralized the support staff (no longer in the branch offices) around 1999 the writing was on the wall. Upper management had no real direction and before I knew alot of staff was let go and my work load was too much to handle for one person on a very minimal salary. It really all about people and relationsships and somehow this got lost along the way. I have since moved on but still cherish the good memories of having worked there.
I think the Fund single-handedly caused the last really hard market in 2001. They artifically lowered rate by buying up market share and the industry couldn’t compete and absorb the losses.
So…we will have another big empty building up the road in a while. Wonder what they will do with this one.