It absolutely DOES include those people. The whole accounting on/of this fiasco is deliberately cloudy, delayed, bent, shady and chock full of BS. Figures lie, and lairs figure.
Welfare and further income redistribution is ALL it is. Those without coverage could have been provided it in a far cheaper manner, WITHOUT completely turning the system upside down for the rest of us – and driving the best and the brightest to pursue something other than medicine (i.e. become wards of the State).
No. They didn’t have the chance. Out of 50 years they had a majority in both sections of congress from 1995 to 2006. 11 years, only 5 years of which (Bush W inaugurated in January 2001) did they have the opportunity to make any headway, and they did not have a super majority. Also, stop insinuating republicans are dumb. ‘Git ‘er done? You are a horrible human being in how you label people.
They passed medicare part D regardless, which is a substantial change in the system.. Which I think we can all agree is what you liberals basically want, but republicans don’t like very much in terms of efficiency.
When Bush W tried to pass additional retirement plans, you guys said it was about the rich. When the republicans tried to pass housing regulations you guys said it was against the poor, and that there were no financial soundness problems. When the republicans in 2009 tried to pass a plan to give families up to a $5000 debit card to buy insurance, make insurance premiums tax deductible toward income, and would not have increased insurance expense write offs to 9.5% (from 7.5%, explain how this helped the poor in the PPACA?) and allowed income put into an HSA to be tax free (Obama now shifted that to being taxed) you tell me that the democrats were not the issue.
The CBO rated the plan from republicans to be an 18% swing on the lowering of premiums for all insureds without the need for a mandate. You tell me the benefit of forcing someone to have insurance to get an artificially higher insured number? Maybe that person won’t go bankrupt. But they can still choose. And their choice is worth more than you dominating them as if their health is any of your business.
“You don’t know anything about republicans at all”
If you’ve seen one you’ve seen them all
Alpha Beta Gamma Rah Rah Rah!!
September 22, 2014 at 3:17 pm
bob says:
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…
…
…
Is this specifically because I said that you act like a team us vs them mentality in the past?
I don’t see how anyone could literally mean what you just said.
I’m shocked beyond words.
Are you actually serious, and are doing a chant about all republicans being the same? Or is this sarcastically mocking me?
If it’s the first I have no response that would make sense.
September 22, 2014 at 3:43 pm
ha! says:
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“If it’s the first I have no response that would make sense.”
…
Nah. Too easy.
September 22, 2014 at 4:23 pm
txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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Now I will mock you.
From now on you will be referred to as Linus. Only you will have a red blanket instead of a blue blanket. Instead of pounding away on your piano, you will be pounding away on your keyboard.
Yes they are all the same. There are plenty of good ones, just the loud ones we could do with out.
September 18, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Jack says:
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Man I can’t wait until we the tax payer writes a huge check to bail out the failing health carriers. It will be just like GM, the return on investment will fund future welfare babies AND abortions galore.
Jack – I’m sure you’d rather your tax dollars go for killing our young men and women overseas and to fund corporate fatcats with their hands in the government till than to provide healthcare to your fellow citizens. How completely republican of you.
Don’t worry Libby….they’re coming here, because we won’t deal with them overseas. And those `corporate fatcats’, they’re going overseas. Fewer jobs provided by fewer American domiciled corporations will definitely make paying for all of this `FREE HEALTHCARE’ for our non-tax paying `fellow citizens’ far easier! But of course you want a $30 minimum wage, right comrade?
Pete – it must suck to be a republican. Living your entire life in fear and suspicion. Caring for no-one but yourself and the almighty dollar. Touting patriotism while never stepping up to the plate yourself. Happy to put others in harms way while you safely sit on the sidelines perptetuating the war-mongering propaganda that keeps you all in business. Similar to a cancer on society…
Libby. What a difference a day makes, eh? Looks like you can’t call us Republicans war-mongers any longer. Even though the loser in chief is a year late and $17Trillion short, he will now finish out his last two years in office as a war-president. Yup. It is not a counter-terrorism mission. It is a WAR. I will give you a minute to clear your eyes so that I know you are reading this clearly. We are in a WAR. Like it or not, it is a war. Plain and simple.
September 23, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Libby says:
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That may be so, Trust me, but if we had never gone over there to begin with none of this would be happening. And that’s on you-know-who. Hint – it’s not Obama…
September 23, 2014 at 2:03 pm
txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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Libby, you do understand that Obama had already moved here from Kenya by the time we went to war in the first place. Of course this is his fault.
September 23, 2014 at 2:13 pm
FFA says:
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Libby, don’t forget they came here first. Saw the foot print of the damage they did last night during the ball game.
They drew first blood.
September 23, 2014 at 2:24 pm
Libby says:
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Yes, Al Qaida came here first. But we invaded Iraq. Al Qaida wasn’t in Iraq.
September 23, 2014 at 2:30 pm
Trust me I am not a liberal says:
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Libby, you just keep on believing that. When the dirty bombs, pipe bombs, etc., start going off here in the USA, are you still going to blame everyone else in God’s creation but Obama?!!?? These terrorists hated us looooong before GWB was our President. What makes you think that if we didn’t go there that they wouldn’t have come here?! Do you not remember 1993 with the first World Trade Center bombing? The president was the lady killer Bill Clinton then. And, you know what? It didn’t make a bit of difference to that blind SOB who planned that attack. I don’t like war either, but if it has to be, I prefer it not be on my homeland.
September 23, 2014 at 2:36 pm
Libby says:
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“These terrorists hated us looooong before GWB was our President.” If that’s so, how is this all Obama’s fault? Make up your mind.
“What makes you think that if we didn’t go there that they wouldn’t have come here?!” They DID come here on 9/11/01. But they didn’t come from Iraq. We should have targeted the right people in the right place.
“I don’t like war either, but if it has to be, I prefer it not be on my homeland.” Really? So you’d rather send our men and women over to be killed in some God-forsaken s–thole? For what? You think that will stop them from coming here if that’s their plan? Now it’s time for you to wake up.
September 23, 2014 at 2:55 pm
FFA says:
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You don’t think Al Quida was in Iraq? I find it difficult to believe they were not. I also find it difficult to believe them chem bombs the Syrian guy dropped on his own people didn’t come from Hussain.
September 23, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Trust me I am not a liberal says:
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Libby, you twisted my words like a true-blue liberal! I would not have expected any less from you! Bravo, Libby!!!!
September 23, 2014 at 3:36 pm
Libby says:
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That’s not fair, Trust me. How did I twist them?
September 19, 2014 at 9:03 am
Captain Planet says:
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Of course he’d rather have our brothers and sisters go over there and get killed. He’s a pro-lifer.
And, you’re an ass**** Cappie, if you think they aren’t planning on coming here. Wait…you’re an ass**** either way. You should thank God that your own mother was a pro-lifer you effing moron.
Libs, you have heard of ISIS. Since the beheadings of journalist from the USA and Brittan even CNN and MSNBC have had to report on them; right? Or is it still only Fox news that is providing the details of how screwed up Obama’s “Foreign Policy” is. They are here in the USA, Libby. ISIS is not a JV terrorist group as Obama once called them. And yes, we need boots on the ground to combat these guys and I don’t care what you bleeding-heart liberals say.
Always,
Yes, we are all well aware of John McCain’s and Lindsey Graham’s buddies, AKA ISIS/ISIL. I love the photo opp John took with them. Good job vetting there, John. And Lindsey, you really caught the vapors this time, eh? “They are going to kill us all.” Really, Graham? More of the same from The Right – be afraid! Which color is supposed to alert us to being afraid this time?
Just how do you defeat an ideology, Always? How many boots does it take? Let’s send even more Americans over there to get their heads chopped off. #neverendingstory
When that other shoe falls, I’ll try not to say I told you so. It must be nice in your world of unicorns and rainbows.
September 22, 2014 at 6:36 pm
bob says:
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I already replied to your post about McCain having ISIS/ISIL buddies, and specifically showed a link showing the men in the photo are not ISIS/ISIL officials, and in fact are moderate in the Syrian free army. McCain liked and supported the Syrian free army, which did not evolve into ISIS/ISIL. These were the people he said had such passion, fighting for their freedom. The Syrian free army is still fighting in Syria, and has themselves been attached by ISIS/ISIL. It’s a complete and utter lie, and easy to prove wrong. How am I supposed to believe you are a moderate when you say the most tin foil hat of conspiracy theories like that?
Moving on: How do you beat anything? You don’t.
With healthcare you never make it perfect. You go for max benefit. You yourself said that was enough reason to act, even if you weren’t sure if it would fix the scenario. It isn’t actually saving lives, but I will accept that if it were, your comment makes sense. So your logics were sound.
Now you’re saying unless we can defeat the ideology, and make all be-headers go away, we shouldn’t try to stop it from happening, or stop any be-headers.
Ok. Then by that logic, should we get rid of policemen since we will never win the war on crime? They don’t help because we can’t win right? You would never make that statement. Your allegiances are getting in the way of common sense.
What is more important, ending the war itself to say we are peaceful and not at war,
Or sending boots on the ground, to not necessarily win, but to save lives?
Is it horrible? Yes. But the people in our military are so great, that is why they signed up. To save lives. If they didn’t sign up for that purpose, they shouldn’t be in the military.
It sucks. But someone has to do it.
For every soldier that dies, as long as we save 2 people in his/her place, it is worth it. Always.
September 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm
bob says:
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Just to show I don’t always reply to liberal outlandish comments…
I do not think this is an Obama or democrat policy issue that created ISIS.
I do think he should have acted earlier. But ISIS would still exist to some capacity no matter our foreign policy differences.
Be careful not to sound extreme or to place the blame of ISIS onto Obama.
As for boots on the ground, it’s a hard equation to balance.
If we go at the rate we are now, we will spend I believe Obama said $10 billion per year sending in thousands of airstrikes. If each one killed 3 people, we would kill 3,000 a year.
If we sent in troops, we might go faster per say, but we would spend a whole lot more. This is a difficult equation to balance.
We could probably do more specifically for and against ISIS faster with troops but let’s say we sent enough airstrikes around the world to equal Iraq’s boots on the ground spending, we could save more people total.
Though then we need to find out how many civilians die from bombings. Back in the day I recall people were claiming our drone strikes were having some negative impacts on civilian casualties. Now that it’s Obama suddenly I can’t find any numbers.
This is why media bias needs to end. So we can actually objectively look at these numbers.
And bias in general. Keep calm Always. We need to get the big picture here.
Always – boots on the ground in the U.S. to protect our citizens here is one thing. Thinking that America must be the world police is another. Why aren’t the other countries affected by ISIS willing to step up and fight? Why is it always our men and women that must be sacrificed? I say screw them, let them fight their own battles. We’ll keep our boots firmly on American soil and fight our enemies here.
I love how you all by into Obama’s “if we’re nice to them they are going to be nice to us” BS. Guess what Libby, we are at war. That just has to make you and all liberals cringe. Obama – the peaceful president – doesn’t want to hurt anyone or make anyone feel bad. If we like them, they’ll like us back. PFFFFFFFFFFT.
Hey, I wonder what ever happened to those 5 top al-Qaeda guys O let go for that one soldier that went wacko and wanted to join the other side? I bet there right up there with ISIS these days.
September 23, 2014 at 12:49 pm
bob says:
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Always,
Calm down. I really don’t want more fighting here.
I actually think Libby is not saying if we leave them alone they will leave us alone.
Most liberals actually don’t think like that.
Most think one of the following things, whether wrong or correct, and thinking those things isn’t necessarily bad.
1. That we can’t win and those people will always be around. They question why we should die in those wars.
2. The same thing only the cost of those wars. The figure it can be used to make people’s lives better here.
3. That these wars cause more death in the fighting of them, and save no lives in fighting them.
Those are the primary ones, I am sure there are others. Some do believe what you put. I’m pretty sure Libby falls into 1 or more of the 3 above.
Now with people like that, you should point out first the value of life. If they cannot agree with the value of all life being equal, don’t have the debate.
The second should then be to prove that going in with airstrikes and or boots on the ground will save more lives than it kills. This isn’t actually that hard.
The argument will go to the value of life here if it didn’t already. This is where they will say “it isn’t our problem” if you say we save more lives than are killed, and will say something akin to “we cannot save the whole world”.
This is where you go back over the value of life, and say “we can never save all or have 100% victory in life. But we should always fight for the BEST scenario” and then you ask something like “Would you agree that my numbers show we have saved more people doing this than were harmed?”.
And then you say “then it is a valid fight.”.
Of course some of them will never admit that, either due to not valuing life, or having an outlook again going back to “we can’t save the world” which is basically the type of person who probably has the same mentality when it comes to helping people here, they cannot save everyone. And you cannot change people like that…Sadly.
September 23, 2014 at 1:52 pm
Libby says:
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Always, why to you assume I agree with Obama’s decision? I DON’T! Let the countries over there protect themselves and their citizens. It’s not always our responsibility. If ISIS is invading America, let’s get troops here to protect us, not over there.
September 23, 2014 at 2:07 pm
bob says:
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Always:
“I love how you all by into Obama’s “if we’re nice to them they are going to be nice to us” BS. Guess what Libby, we are at war. That just has to make you and all liberals cringe. Obama – the peaceful president – doesn’t want to hurt anyone or make anyone feel bad. If we like them, they’ll like us back. PFFFFFFFFFFT.”
I’m saying this could lead to fighting, above.
I’m calm. It’s why I’m being fairly nice to Libby’s situation. She’s not being very nice to you right now either with the ‘Merica f yeah comments either of course.
September 23, 2014 at 2:26 pm
Libby says:
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You’d need to see the movie to understand the Team America comment, Always. It wasn’t a slam on you regardless of how some people want to portray it to start trouble.
September 23, 2014 at 7:00 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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You said, “And yes, we need boots on the ground…” Yeah that’ll really help the debt. Oh, wait. No, but it’ll help stuff Dick Cheney’s pockets with blood money, from the blood of our children. Then you can blame “Obummer” for running up the debt, and redirect attention away from the fact that a large part of our current debt was rung up by the previous 2 wars.
Why don’t we just use bombs?
-Because then Dick Cheney won’t make as much money.
Bob, no one is fighting – I think you’re the one who needs to calm down. You don’t want more fighting here? Since when did you become the keeper of this blog? This is an open discussion blog and everyone has the right to their own opinion.
And Libby, our borders in Mexico are open wide. Do you honestly think – what is it 60 million (?) that have crossed our borders have all been Mexican? There are people coming across from the Middle East as well and Obama is just letting them stroll right in. There have been 3 arrests here in the USA of men trying to get other men to join ISIS. Or haven’t you been made aware of this? I believe it was in a mosque in Minneapolis for goodness sakes. You libs need to wake the blazes up and stop living in lala land.
September 23, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Libby says:
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What do you mean, I need to wake up? I’m fully aware of what is going on. I’ll say it one more time, in case you didn’t hear me the first 3 or 4. All the more reason to get our troops home here and not over in some God-forsaken country whose citizens would just as soon slit their throats as look at them. I don’t care if they all kill each other over there. We shouldn’t be involved. We need to secure our country first.
Just what did I say that you disagree with, Always?
September 23, 2014 at 1:50 pm
Libby says:
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If that’s true, all the more reason to get our troops home to protect us.
Hi Libby, It was your if ISIS were hear – they are here, Libby. That might not scare you but it does me. They are waiting for the opportunity to raise havoc here in the west. Don’t you guys get that? That’s why we’re bombing Syria now because of the threats made to the USA. I have a gut feeling that one of these days someone with a dirty bomb is boing to attack one of our major cities. What’s to stop them? Or blow up a buss in rush hour? Nothing. We live in very dangerous times and what Obama did with our boarder in Mexico is an outrage.
Our troops have being decreased. The world is on fire. ISIS has over 30K – they are getting 600 is it millions (?) of funds daily from around the world – their military is growing and ours is decreasing. Do you see any logic in that? If so, please enlighten me.
September 23, 2014 at 3:27 pm
Always Amazed says:
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oops – that should have been here and not hear. I know how judgmental you all can be.
September 23, 2014 at 3:35 pm
Libby says:
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I didn’t say “if they are here” like I didn’t believe you. I said it’s all the more reason to get our troops here and not over there. Terrorists have been in this country for quite some time, now. Remember 9/11? Those planes took off from the U.S. not overseas. So no matter how hard you want to spin it, this is not entirely Obama’s fault.
With that being said, I AM NOT happy with the way he has handled this. Befriending ISIS in Syria and then bombing them in Iraq? That was beyond ludicrous.
But I don’t want our men and women fighting on the ground over there. If we send over air strikes, that’s one thing. But no “boots on the ground.”
September 23, 2014 at 4:15 pm
txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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I think with a military larger than just about any other nation other than maybe China, we should be able to handle 30k “sandals on the ground”. There are better uses for tin foil than making headwear, I just hope the right is recycling what they throw away when they don’t get the reception they are looking for. And to think that Alcoa is slashing their benefits to their employees. They must be making a shit ton of cash on the dooms day preppers.
September 23, 2014 at 4:26 pm
Libby says:
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Txmouth – I have to agree with you. The hysteria should be taken down a notch or two. Caution is one thing. Bomb shelters are another.
Everytime you log into your checking account your put your identity at risk. Everytime you give your personal information at the hospital or doctor’s office, you put your identity at risk. This is no more or no less dangerous than all the other things we do with information online.
Would a hacker target 7.3 million or 1? They can steal all my debt. I’ll go live on an Island. Drive the Banana Boat or learn how to braid hair.
I just have this picture in my head of Snowden sitting somewhere in Russia hacking govt sites for sport. They branded him as a traitor, so you may as well do the crime if you’ve already been tried and convicted.
Hey FFA, If the government proudly proclaimed that 8 million signed up, does that mean that 700,000 are missing from the rolls when they didn’t pay? Something is rotten in Denmark.
Libby, you forgot to mention every time they log into their accounts for the NRA and dailyronaldreagannudes.com site, their freedom and liberty is compromised.
bob, you are wrong. At least 28 immature people liked my post. Good one on Clinton. Why not go through the entire list of Presidents. By the way, childish is when you share your life problems on an insurance website. Here are some links for you: sallyjesseraphael.com and maurypovich.com. I am 99.9% sure these can’t help you though.
September 19, 2014 at 7:27 pm
bob says:
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Booger:
No. Childish is not sharing online personal issues. That is called making online talking personal, rather than your form of making it strictly personal only in the level of your attacks.
Childish would be then using those issues to neurotically degrade said person for sharing online.
It would also be considered childish to constantly be irate and label people online, who you have never met.
Or label groups and sects of people, or constantly say they suck dick, take it up the rear, or your other comments.
Is your statement something you would consider mature in person if someone tried to say you needed to go to a Clinton porn site because of how much Liberals love him?
No. Not any president would work. I’m quite sure you’re aware and choosing Reagan because he is the republican savior, as Clinton is. People like Reagan because he was a good president. We don’t need to be implying people who love Reagan should go to a porn site for him.
September 19, 2014 at 7:29 pm
bob says:
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Further booger:
Oooo what a zinger. No I’m wrong, my bad. Now it is 29.
That’s the best come back I’ve ever heard from a “mature” person.
At the time I posted it, it was 27. You saw it at 28, no booger, you’re wrong, it is 29. Would it even make sense for me to say that, if I wasn’t mentally ill?
You seem to insult republicans for having head case issues, but you have no reason to say that comment other than to just be a trolling jerk. Might want to rethink your motivations buddy.
Go have a beer. You need one.
September 18, 2014 at 2:19 pm
whatt?? says:
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Are we saying that the government employees and contractors running Obamacare are not overpaid fatcats??? Really??
Come on Man!!!
I wonder how many are getting coverage that weren’t able to before. I choose to focus on the positive. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – hard to follow that model if you can’t maintain health. I am my brother’s keeper.
Bob is right!! Enough with all this “socialized” good! We need to eliminate taxes, police, fireman, military, the EPA, teachers, you name it! Gone baby gone!
Only then will we finally be free of the tyranny that accompanies the cost for a civilized society.
At what point did I mention doing away with all socialized goods?
I’m about what is the best way of handling life issues.
If your goal is to say forced socialized medicine is the best way for health care, you are wrong.
Maybe a dual system, private and public, to create universal level of coverage for the poor, and expanded coverage for people who can afford more and choose more, but not public.
I have always said that when it comes to healthcare what I do not like about this law is:
Efficiency. Premiums are not coming down.
Mandate. If the premiums are not coming down and would come down more with the 2009 CBO rated republican plan, why go with a mandate over 18% premium savings? The republican plan was estimated to lower premiums 9% whereas the democrats was going to increase them by 9%. This is CBO. They cannot just be ignored. Yes. Premiums are still down ish in comparison to the past. This does not mean that allowing them to go down at a slower rate is ok.
You are basically labeling republicans to make an argument I never made, and mar my image and ability to debate.
Bob, in all seriousness, I also support a single payer option. I am surprised that you favor SP over Obamacare though, since Obamacare is really just a republican Heritage Foundation idea put into practice.
That being said, I will push back against your statement that socialized medicine isnt the best option. I believe that it is for two reasons: information and bargaining power.
In my opinion, healthcare is more akin to electricity and water than it is a non-regulated good. On a cold day, what would you pay for electricity? My guess is probably a lot. And on a hot day, you would likely pay quite a bit for running water too. Far more than what you actually get charged. That is because you cannot say no. The government regulates these industries so as to allow average people to afford the utlilites and move on with their life.
In fact, we saw a de-regulated energy market experiment in action already: Enron & California in the late 90’s. Minus Ken Lay, nearly everyone agrees that that was a disastrous outcome for consumers.
Healthcare functions in the same way. What would you spend to fix a broken arm? To remove a cancerous tumor? Stated differently, what is your life worth? I am guessing a lot. The dirty secret is that healthcare (and education and housing) are so expensive because they can be. You flat out have to have it to survive.
Even worse, unlike water and electricity, healthcare is convoluted and confusing, so not only do you not have a real choice in the matter, but your ability to assimilate and understand information is limited, making rational choice literally impossible. And without rational choice . . .
This, friend, leads to a breakdown in the market. But fret not, government can – – and does – – solve this issue for literally ever other developed nation on this planet. To great results.
Agent, of course, is unpersuaded. Are you?
September 23, 2014 at 12:40 pm
bob says:
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Stan,
If you believe socialized medicine can do better, feel free to get out of the insurance field, as you have not studied how insurance works. Can the government then do all forms of insurance better? If they can’t, why not? This is simple to study and you have it indefinitely wrong. Why do monopolistic worker’s comp states do better than ones without it? The state can barely handle that. This is why we need it as an option, that it doesn’t work as a whole as efficiently as private systems, but private systems are not always affordable. But the option would provide for people who cannot afford it.
Premiums out vs premiums in vs investments to build capital. The government cannot build capital. It spends it. And it does have over head. Even if that was 4% (which most people agree Canada’s numbers are wrong, the overhead of the government is 10%) you then give a dollar to the government and get 90 cents back.
Insurance companies consistently get a dollar and pay out ratios over 1 for claims. It isn’t over by much, but all it needs to be is between 1-3% over a long period of time to allow for a huge amount more to be paid on health operations.
You neglect to note that our private insurance system pays more for insurance than any country’s public. Try to argue those costs are inflated, it doesn’t negate that the insurance companies pay out more than the governments. The insurance companies themselves are not causing the inflation in cost of the services. Go look at your bill after insurance companies negotiate down a service your insurance didn’t cover. It generally goes down by a huge margin. The cost without insurance companies doing that is huge.
Also: Obamacare is NOT the Heritage foundation’s creation. Just due to having a mandate, that obviously a majority of republicans didn’t agree with, and an exchange, does not make a 2,000 page plan the same as a republican one.
If they were the same, why did the Republicans have a separately CBO rated 2009 plan? You all try to talk the past suggestions of the republican party, and say it was Obamacare, it was not. It is absurd for you to make such a claim and I will not take you seriously in debate while you make the claim. You can say what you do or don’t agree with. You cannot call Obamacare a republican plan. It is not.
September 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm
bob says:
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I shouldn’t use sarcasm in posts…
I was saying the monopolistic states are terrible.
September 23, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Stan says:
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I didnt say that the State should provide insurance. I said it should provide universal healthcare (eliminating the need for private insurance if you’re willing to accept the Government’s medical services).
Second, the reason that insurance companies pay more than other countries is simple: they have to.
Obamacare did a great job to expand access, but it did little to control costs. Single payer will address the cost issue. Ill even help your small, religious mind understand. For the same reason that Insurance companies can negotiate a lower rate: scale. They have lots of patients and command lower costs. Expanding on that principle, no one has more market power than the government, this alone will help to curb costs.
I couldnt care less about whether private insurance takes a hit or is more efficient either. Universal healthcare is good for the country as a whole. One, people are flat out healthier because they can finally see a physician (its the moral thing to do – a concept that is self evident to everyone except voters that believe in Jesus most).
Second, it will help to loosen up the labor market. The reason that people dont leave bad jobs is because they cant! They are tied to them because they need the insurance. You need a fluid labor market in order for wages to rise, else employers and not employees retain disparate bargaining power.
Third, it will allow for greater consumer spending on all other areas of the economy. Once people can afford something other than housing, healthcare, and education, they will buy it. They might even save money, or form a family. Which, ironically, will likely lead to more conservatives since most singles lean heavily democratic.
I wish I were more surprised that you don’t get this.
September 23, 2014 at 9:31 am
txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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Amen!! The spirit of our Lord and Savior Ronald Reagan will finally save us!! His golden shower will trickle down his leg on to our heads just like his economy! McJob creators shall be rewarded for being the heroes they are! Let us join hands and pray for the dooms day preppers as they shall be the new world order leaders with all their military surplus toys and costumes. Civilization bad, me want stone age!
I am more and more convinced by your inane rants that you are sitting in a public library with a teddy bear in one hand wearing adult diapers waiting for your mom to pick you up.
September 23, 2014 at 5:03 pm
txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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Looks like I must have offended a “brah” from Sigma Gamma Tau. By the way, I was waiting for your mother to pick me up. We are supposed to make some home videos together. Diapers were part of the plan though and there was a librarian theme to boot.
October 7, 2014 at 5:28 pm
Agent says:
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Remember when the 6 million got their cancellation notices last year and were forced to apply for Obamacare? Then, it was walked back and delayed and Obama said they could keep their coverage if they liked it. Now, I have customers receiving notices that their coverage ceases 12-31-14 and they must apply for a new plan starting on Nov 15th. They really couldn’t keep their plan they liked after all.
Well if they truly want Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they would get off their lazy azz and work for it just like us. Instead, the liberals would rather keep the poor poor so they have a voting herd of low information voters.
To clarify my last post, dealing with them today after a lengthy hold time. Can barely understand what they are saying and things get lost in the interpretation. One thing was clear, I need to bend over and take what ever the hell some pin head that barely speaks English tells me as truth. They just don’t care who they screw out of what.
Hang in there. You’d be surprised what a little elbow grease and de-cluttering will do for your house. We boxed up a bunch of knick-knacks, cleaned windows inside and out, had carpets cleaned, tidied up the closets, and painted one room and ended up getting more than we asked for our house. Good luck!
My biggest concern is getting in the new place before the Nursing Home evicts my parents. Weighing very heavy on my shoulders right now. Got another court thing happening with the kids in a few weeks. That’s adding on to the pile. My wife and I are very strained right now. Couldn’t even get an hour myself to watch Sons last night without a dust up. I truly hate my life. Got the Hungry Heart feeling. “Got a wife and kids in Baltimore Jack…” Find me in the Caribbean on a beach.
BTW, my wife is the queen of clutter. Keeps bringing home OPs (Other Peoples s$#@). I’m gonna fix it up. I’m gonna sell it. But yet, it sits there doing nothing.
I moved an entire truck load out and two vans full of shit. As I was moving it, was wondering to my self, if we don’t need this stuff to live with, why am I moving it???? No the house is de cluttered, looks a lot nicer.
Does the people who have paid include those that we subsidize with premium payments on their behalf? hmmm……
It absolutely DOES include those people. The whole accounting on/of this fiasco is deliberately cloudy, delayed, bent, shady and chock full of BS. Figures lie, and lairs figure.
Welfare and further income redistribution is ALL it is. Those without coverage could have been provided it in a far cheaper manner, WITHOUT completely turning the system upside down for the rest of us – and driving the best and the brightest to pursue something other than medicine (i.e. become wards of the State).
The Republicants had an opportunity to git ‘er done dit it in ‘Murrica and they didn’t do it. Next topic.
No. They didn’t have the chance. Out of 50 years they had a majority in both sections of congress from 1995 to 2006. 11 years, only 5 years of which (Bush W inaugurated in January 2001) did they have the opportunity to make any headway, and they did not have a super majority. Also, stop insinuating republicans are dumb. ‘Git ‘er done? You are a horrible human being in how you label people.
They passed medicare part D regardless, which is a substantial change in the system.. Which I think we can all agree is what you liberals basically want, but republicans don’t like very much in terms of efficiency.
When Bush W tried to pass additional retirement plans, you guys said it was about the rich. When the republicans tried to pass housing regulations you guys said it was against the poor, and that there were no financial soundness problems. When the republicans in 2009 tried to pass a plan to give families up to a $5000 debit card to buy insurance, make insurance premiums tax deductible toward income, and would not have increased insurance expense write offs to 9.5% (from 7.5%, explain how this helped the poor in the PPACA?) and allowed income put into an HSA to be tax free (Obama now shifted that to being taxed) you tell me that the democrats were not the issue.
The CBO rated the plan from republicans to be an 18% swing on the lowering of premiums for all insureds without the need for a mandate. You tell me the benefit of forcing someone to have insurance to get an artificially higher insured number? Maybe that person won’t go bankrupt. But they can still choose. And their choice is worth more than you dominating them as if their health is any of your business.
You don’t know anything about republicans at all.
“You don’t know anything about republicans at all”
If you’ve seen one you’ve seen them all
Alpha Beta Gamma Rah Rah Rah!!
…
…
…
Is this specifically because I said that you act like a team us vs them mentality in the past?
I don’t see how anyone could literally mean what you just said.
I’m shocked beyond words.
Are you actually serious, and are doing a chant about all republicans being the same? Or is this sarcastically mocking me?
If it’s the first I have no response that would make sense.
“If it’s the first I have no response that would make sense.”
…
Nah. Too easy.
Now I will mock you.
From now on you will be referred to as Linus. Only you will have a red blanket instead of a blue blanket. Instead of pounding away on your piano, you will be pounding away on your keyboard.
Yes they are all the same. There are plenty of good ones, just the loud ones we could do with out.
Man I can’t wait until we the tax payer writes a huge check to bail out the failing health carriers. It will be just like GM, the return on investment will fund future welfare babies AND abortions galore.
LEEEEAAAANNNNN FFFFFOOOOORRRRWWWWWAAAARRRRDDDD
Jack – I’m sure you’d rather your tax dollars go for killing our young men and women overseas and to fund corporate fatcats with their hands in the government till than to provide healthcare to your fellow citizens. How completely republican of you.
Don’t worry Libby….they’re coming here, because we won’t deal with them overseas. And those `corporate fatcats’, they’re going overseas. Fewer jobs provided by fewer American domiciled corporations will definitely make paying for all of this `FREE HEALTHCARE’ for our non-tax paying `fellow citizens’ far easier! But of course you want a $30 minimum wage, right comrade?
Pete – it must suck to be a republican. Living your entire life in fear and suspicion. Caring for no-one but yourself and the almighty dollar. Touting patriotism while never stepping up to the plate yourself. Happy to put others in harms way while you safely sit on the sidelines perptetuating the war-mongering propaganda that keeps you all in business. Similar to a cancer on society…
Libby. What a difference a day makes, eh? Looks like you can’t call us Republicans war-mongers any longer. Even though the loser in chief is a year late and $17Trillion short, he will now finish out his last two years in office as a war-president. Yup. It is not a counter-terrorism mission. It is a WAR. I will give you a minute to clear your eyes so that I know you are reading this clearly. We are in a WAR. Like it or not, it is a war. Plain and simple.
That may be so, Trust me, but if we had never gone over there to begin with none of this would be happening. And that’s on you-know-who. Hint – it’s not Obama…
Libby, you do understand that Obama had already moved here from Kenya by the time we went to war in the first place. Of course this is his fault.
Libby, don’t forget they came here first. Saw the foot print of the damage they did last night during the ball game.
They drew first blood.
Yes, Al Qaida came here first. But we invaded Iraq. Al Qaida wasn’t in Iraq.
Libby, you just keep on believing that. When the dirty bombs, pipe bombs, etc., start going off here in the USA, are you still going to blame everyone else in God’s creation but Obama?!!?? These terrorists hated us looooong before GWB was our President. What makes you think that if we didn’t go there that they wouldn’t have come here?! Do you not remember 1993 with the first World Trade Center bombing? The president was the lady killer Bill Clinton then. And, you know what? It didn’t make a bit of difference to that blind SOB who planned that attack. I don’t like war either, but if it has to be, I prefer it not be on my homeland.
“These terrorists hated us looooong before GWB was our President.” If that’s so, how is this all Obama’s fault? Make up your mind.
“What makes you think that if we didn’t go there that they wouldn’t have come here?!” They DID come here on 9/11/01. But they didn’t come from Iraq. We should have targeted the right people in the right place.
“I don’t like war either, but if it has to be, I prefer it not be on my homeland.” Really? So you’d rather send our men and women over to be killed in some God-forsaken s–thole? For what? You think that will stop them from coming here if that’s their plan? Now it’s time for you to wake up.
You don’t think Al Quida was in Iraq? I find it difficult to believe they were not. I also find it difficult to believe them chem bombs the Syrian guy dropped on his own people didn’t come from Hussain.
Libby, you twisted my words like a true-blue liberal! I would not have expected any less from you! Bravo, Libby!!!!
That’s not fair, Trust me. How did I twist them?
Of course he’d rather have our brothers and sisters go over there and get killed. He’s a pro-lifer.
And, you’re an ass**** Cappie, if you think they aren’t planning on coming here. Wait…you’re an ass**** either way. You should thank God that your own mother was a pro-lifer you effing moron.
Libs, you have heard of ISIS. Since the beheadings of journalist from the USA and Brittan even CNN and MSNBC have had to report on them; right? Or is it still only Fox news that is providing the details of how screwed up Obama’s “Foreign Policy” is. They are here in the USA, Libby. ISIS is not a JV terrorist group as Obama once called them. And yes, we need boots on the ground to combat these guys and I don’t care what you bleeding-heart liberals say.
“Boots on the Ground” love these maverick catch phrases
Always,
Yes, we are all well aware of John McCain’s and Lindsey Graham’s buddies, AKA ISIS/ISIL. I love the photo opp John took with them. Good job vetting there, John. And Lindsey, you really caught the vapors this time, eh? “They are going to kill us all.” Really, Graham? More of the same from The Right – be afraid! Which color is supposed to alert us to being afraid this time?
Just how do you defeat an ideology, Always? How many boots does it take? Let’s send even more Americans over there to get their heads chopped off. #neverendingstory
Hi Captain, This truly reminds me of a wonderful political cartoon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV7CTlIcKlw
When that other shoe falls, I’ll try not to say I told you so. It must be nice in your world of unicorns and rainbows.
I already replied to your post about McCain having ISIS/ISIL buddies, and specifically showed a link showing the men in the photo are not ISIS/ISIL officials, and in fact are moderate in the Syrian free army. McCain liked and supported the Syrian free army, which did not evolve into ISIS/ISIL. These were the people he said had such passion, fighting for their freedom. The Syrian free army is still fighting in Syria, and has themselves been attached by ISIS/ISIL. It’s a complete and utter lie, and easy to prove wrong. How am I supposed to believe you are a moderate when you say the most tin foil hat of conspiracy theories like that?
Moving on: How do you beat anything? You don’t.
With healthcare you never make it perfect. You go for max benefit. You yourself said that was enough reason to act, even if you weren’t sure if it would fix the scenario. It isn’t actually saving lives, but I will accept that if it were, your comment makes sense. So your logics were sound.
Now you’re saying unless we can defeat the ideology, and make all be-headers go away, we shouldn’t try to stop it from happening, or stop any be-headers.
Ok. Then by that logic, should we get rid of policemen since we will never win the war on crime? They don’t help because we can’t win right? You would never make that statement. Your allegiances are getting in the way of common sense.
What is more important, ending the war itself to say we are peaceful and not at war,
Or sending boots on the ground, to not necessarily win, but to save lives?
Is it horrible? Yes. But the people in our military are so great, that is why they signed up. To save lives. If they didn’t sign up for that purpose, they shouldn’t be in the military.
It sucks. But someone has to do it.
For every soldier that dies, as long as we save 2 people in his/her place, it is worth it. Always.
Just to show I don’t always reply to liberal outlandish comments…
I do not think this is an Obama or democrat policy issue that created ISIS.
I do think he should have acted earlier. But ISIS would still exist to some capacity no matter our foreign policy differences.
Be careful not to sound extreme or to place the blame of ISIS onto Obama.
As for boots on the ground, it’s a hard equation to balance.
If we go at the rate we are now, we will spend I believe Obama said $10 billion per year sending in thousands of airstrikes. If each one killed 3 people, we would kill 3,000 a year.
If we sent in troops, we might go faster per say, but we would spend a whole lot more. This is a difficult equation to balance.
We could probably do more specifically for and against ISIS faster with troops but let’s say we sent enough airstrikes around the world to equal Iraq’s boots on the ground spending, we could save more people total.
Though then we need to find out how many civilians die from bombings. Back in the day I recall people were claiming our drone strikes were having some negative impacts on civilian casualties. Now that it’s Obama suddenly I can’t find any numbers.
This is why media bias needs to end. So we can actually objectively look at these numbers.
And bias in general. Keep calm Always. We need to get the big picture here.
People are dying and we need to do this right.
Always – boots on the ground in the U.S. to protect our citizens here is one thing. Thinking that America must be the world police is another. Why aren’t the other countries affected by ISIS willing to step up and fight? Why is it always our men and women that must be sacrificed? I say screw them, let them fight their own battles. We’ll keep our boots firmly on American soil and fight our enemies here.
Team America. F–k yeah!
Really, Libby? Seems your boy Obama sees things differently. Went over congress again – gee there’s a surprise.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/world/meast/isis-airstrikes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/23/us-strikes-target-al-qaeda-veterans-in-syria-plotting-imminent-attack/
I love how you all by into Obama’s “if we’re nice to them they are going to be nice to us” BS. Guess what Libby, we are at war. That just has to make you and all liberals cringe. Obama – the peaceful president – doesn’t want to hurt anyone or make anyone feel bad. If we like them, they’ll like us back. PFFFFFFFFFFT.
Hey, I wonder what ever happened to those 5 top al-Qaeda guys O let go for that one soldier that went wacko and wanted to join the other side? I bet there right up there with ISIS these days.
Always,
Calm down. I really don’t want more fighting here.
I actually think Libby is not saying if we leave them alone they will leave us alone.
Most liberals actually don’t think like that.
Most think one of the following things, whether wrong or correct, and thinking those things isn’t necessarily bad.
1. That we can’t win and those people will always be around. They question why we should die in those wars.
2. The same thing only the cost of those wars. The figure it can be used to make people’s lives better here.
3. That these wars cause more death in the fighting of them, and save no lives in fighting them.
Those are the primary ones, I am sure there are others. Some do believe what you put. I’m pretty sure Libby falls into 1 or more of the 3 above.
Now with people like that, you should point out first the value of life. If they cannot agree with the value of all life being equal, don’t have the debate.
The second should then be to prove that going in with airstrikes and or boots on the ground will save more lives than it kills. This isn’t actually that hard.
The argument will go to the value of life here if it didn’t already. This is where they will say “it isn’t our problem” if you say we save more lives than are killed, and will say something akin to “we cannot save the whole world”.
This is where you go back over the value of life, and say “we can never save all or have 100% victory in life. But we should always fight for the BEST scenario” and then you ask something like “Would you agree that my numbers show we have saved more people doing this than were harmed?”.
And then you say “then it is a valid fight.”.
Of course some of them will never admit that, either due to not valuing life, or having an outlook again going back to “we can’t save the world” which is basically the type of person who probably has the same mentality when it comes to helping people here, they cannot save everyone. And you cannot change people like that…Sadly.
Always, why to you assume I agree with Obama’s decision? I DON’T! Let the countries over there protect themselves and their citizens. It’s not always our responsibility. If ISIS is invading America, let’s get troops here to protect us, not over there.
Always:
“I love how you all by into Obama’s “if we’re nice to them they are going to be nice to us” BS. Guess what Libby, we are at war. That just has to make you and all liberals cringe. Obama – the peaceful president – doesn’t want to hurt anyone or make anyone feel bad. If we like them, they’ll like us back. PFFFFFFFFFFT.”
I’m saying this could lead to fighting, above.
I’m calm. It’s why I’m being fairly nice to Libby’s situation. She’s not being very nice to you right now either with the ‘Merica f yeah comments either of course.
You’d need to see the movie to understand the Team America comment, Always. It wasn’t a slam on you regardless of how some people want to portray it to start trouble.
You said, “And yes, we need boots on the ground…” Yeah that’ll really help the debt. Oh, wait. No, but it’ll help stuff Dick Cheney’s pockets with blood money, from the blood of our children. Then you can blame “Obummer” for running up the debt, and redirect attention away from the fact that a large part of our current debt was rung up by the previous 2 wars.
Why don’t we just use bombs?
-Because then Dick Cheney won’t make as much money.
Don’t worry, Libby and all you other lefties out there…THEY ARE ALREADY HERE. Get your heads out of your butts and listen to the NEWS.
The ISIS are coming!! The ISIS are coming!! “One if by van, and two if by jeep!”
Bob, no one is fighting – I think you’re the one who needs to calm down. You don’t want more fighting here? Since when did you become the keeper of this blog? This is an open discussion blog and everyone has the right to their own opinion.
And Libby, our borders in Mexico are open wide. Do you honestly think – what is it 60 million (?) that have crossed our borders have all been Mexican? There are people coming across from the Middle East as well and Obama is just letting them stroll right in. There have been 3 arrests here in the USA of men trying to get other men to join ISIS. Or haven’t you been made aware of this? I believe it was in a mosque in Minneapolis for goodness sakes. You libs need to wake the blazes up and stop living in lala land.
What do you mean, I need to wake up? I’m fully aware of what is going on. I’ll say it one more time, in case you didn’t hear me the first 3 or 4. All the more reason to get our troops home here and not over in some God-forsaken country whose citizens would just as soon slit their throats as look at them. I don’t care if they all kill each other over there. We shouldn’t be involved. We need to secure our country first.
Just what did I say that you disagree with, Always?
If that’s true, all the more reason to get our troops home to protect us.
Hi Libby, It was your if ISIS were hear – they are here, Libby. That might not scare you but it does me. They are waiting for the opportunity to raise havoc here in the west. Don’t you guys get that? That’s why we’re bombing Syria now because of the threats made to the USA. I have a gut feeling that one of these days someone with a dirty bomb is boing to attack one of our major cities. What’s to stop them? Or blow up a buss in rush hour? Nothing. We live in very dangerous times and what Obama did with our boarder in Mexico is an outrage.
Our troops have being decreased. The world is on fire. ISIS has over 30K – they are getting 600 is it millions (?) of funds daily from around the world – their military is growing and ours is decreasing. Do you see any logic in that? If so, please enlighten me.
oops – that should have been here and not hear. I know how judgmental you all can be.
I didn’t say “if they are here” like I didn’t believe you. I said it’s all the more reason to get our troops here and not over there. Terrorists have been in this country for quite some time, now. Remember 9/11? Those planes took off from the U.S. not overseas. So no matter how hard you want to spin it, this is not entirely Obama’s fault.
With that being said, I AM NOT happy with the way he has handled this. Befriending ISIS in Syria and then bombing them in Iraq? That was beyond ludicrous.
But I don’t want our men and women fighting on the ground over there. If we send over air strikes, that’s one thing. But no “boots on the ground.”
I think with a military larger than just about any other nation other than maybe China, we should be able to handle 30k “sandals on the ground”. There are better uses for tin foil than making headwear, I just hope the right is recycling what they throw away when they don’t get the reception they are looking for. And to think that Alcoa is slashing their benefits to their employees. They must be making a shit ton of cash on the dooms day preppers.
Txmouth – I have to agree with you. The hysteria should be taken down a notch or two. Caution is one thing. Bomb shelters are another.
7.3 million identity at risk….
Everytime you log into your checking account your put your identity at risk. Everytime you give your personal information at the hospital or doctor’s office, you put your identity at risk. This is no more or no less dangerous than all the other things we do with information online.
Would a hacker target 7.3 million or 1? They can steal all my debt. I’ll go live on an Island. Drive the Banana Boat or learn how to braid hair.
I just have this picture in my head of Snowden sitting somewhere in Russia hacking govt sites for sport. They branded him as a traitor, so you may as well do the crime if you’ve already been tried and convicted.
Hey FFA, If the government proudly proclaimed that 8 million signed up, does that mean that 700,000 are missing from the rolls when they didn’t pay? Something is rotten in Denmark.
Libby, you forgot to mention every time they log into their accounts for the NRA and dailyronaldreagannudes.com site, their freedom and liberty is compromised.
Grow up.
Seriously.
If you don’t see the problems with your comment above I don’t know what to tell you.
No one has any obligation to take you seriously when you post like this. What is amazing to me is 27 people supposedly liked your post.
27 people with that low of a maturity level…Astounding.
dailyronaldreagannudes.com?
Let’s replace that with Clinton shall we? I get the joke booger. It’s just extremely childish.
bob, you are wrong. At least 28 immature people liked my post. Good one on Clinton. Why not go through the entire list of Presidents. By the way, childish is when you share your life problems on an insurance website. Here are some links for you: sallyjesseraphael.com and maurypovich.com. I am 99.9% sure these can’t help you though.
Booger:
No. Childish is not sharing online personal issues. That is called making online talking personal, rather than your form of making it strictly personal only in the level of your attacks.
Childish would be then using those issues to neurotically degrade said person for sharing online.
It would also be considered childish to constantly be irate and label people online, who you have never met.
Or label groups and sects of people, or constantly say they suck dick, take it up the rear, or your other comments.
Is your statement something you would consider mature in person if someone tried to say you needed to go to a Clinton porn site because of how much Liberals love him?
No. Not any president would work. I’m quite sure you’re aware and choosing Reagan because he is the republican savior, as Clinton is. People like Reagan because he was a good president. We don’t need to be implying people who love Reagan should go to a porn site for him.
Further booger:
Oooo what a zinger. No I’m wrong, my bad. Now it is 29.
That’s the best come back I’ve ever heard from a “mature” person.
At the time I posted it, it was 27. You saw it at 28, no booger, you’re wrong, it is 29. Would it even make sense for me to say that, if I wasn’t mentally ill?
You seem to insult republicans for having head case issues, but you have no reason to say that comment other than to just be a trolling jerk. Might want to rethink your motivations buddy.
Go have a beer. You need one.
Are we saying that the government employees and contractors running Obamacare are not overpaid fatcats??? Really??
Come on Man!!!
No, I’m not saying that. Are you?
I am saying that government management employees and contractors are over paid fatcats, especially those involved with Obamacare.
I wonder how many are getting coverage that weren’t able to before. I choose to focus on the positive. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – hard to follow that model if you can’t maintain health. I am my brother’s keeper.
No. You’re not.
You aren’t the one agreeing to pay for your brother right now.
You’re forcing others to do so, as you said, people should have to pay for insurance who don’t have it.
That isn’t you keeping your brother, that is someone else.
As you have said, taxes should be higher on the big corporations.
That isn’t you taking care of your brother. That is someone else.
What do you donate each year?
What companies and who do you personally help in terms of health?
Rather, no you are not your brother’s keeper.
If you didn’t catch. You are really rather full of yourself, while you force others to do your hospitality.
Bob is right!! Enough with all this “socialized” good! We need to eliminate taxes, police, fireman, military, the EPA, teachers, you name it! Gone baby gone!
Only then will we finally be free of the tyranny that accompanies the cost for a civilized society.
At what point did I mention doing away with all socialized goods?
I’m about what is the best way of handling life issues.
If your goal is to say forced socialized medicine is the best way for health care, you are wrong.
Maybe a dual system, private and public, to create universal level of coverage for the poor, and expanded coverage for people who can afford more and choose more, but not public.
I have always said that when it comes to healthcare what I do not like about this law is:
Efficiency. Premiums are not coming down.
Mandate. If the premiums are not coming down and would come down more with the 2009 CBO rated republican plan, why go with a mandate over 18% premium savings? The republican plan was estimated to lower premiums 9% whereas the democrats was going to increase them by 9%. This is CBO. They cannot just be ignored. Yes. Premiums are still down ish in comparison to the past. This does not mean that allowing them to go down at a slower rate is ok.
You are basically labeling republicans to make an argument I never made, and mar my image and ability to debate.
Now what I did say:
If we are going to argue caring for your brother, Planet is not suggesting he pays more to care for his brother.
He’s suggesting everyone else do so. Because with his vote, he is being a good man with other people’s forced actions from that vote?
I think not.
And Stan,
If you have honestly missed where I have said I am fine with a public and private system,
Then you aren’t paying attention.
I’m the only moderate here who has said such a thing. Libby and Planet both argue for “universal” as in public systems.
I make arguments against Obamacare, but have said several times, to the chagrin of many conservatives here, that I support a public option. OPTION.
Do you not know about the public OPTION that democrats suggested before the mandate and Obamacare?
I would have been ok with that.
Bob, in all seriousness, I also support a single payer option. I am surprised that you favor SP over Obamacare though, since Obamacare is really just a republican Heritage Foundation idea put into practice.
That being said, I will push back against your statement that socialized medicine isnt the best option. I believe that it is for two reasons: information and bargaining power.
In my opinion, healthcare is more akin to electricity and water than it is a non-regulated good. On a cold day, what would you pay for electricity? My guess is probably a lot. And on a hot day, you would likely pay quite a bit for running water too. Far more than what you actually get charged. That is because you cannot say no. The government regulates these industries so as to allow average people to afford the utlilites and move on with their life.
In fact, we saw a de-regulated energy market experiment in action already: Enron & California in the late 90’s. Minus Ken Lay, nearly everyone agrees that that was a disastrous outcome for consumers.
Healthcare functions in the same way. What would you spend to fix a broken arm? To remove a cancerous tumor? Stated differently, what is your life worth? I am guessing a lot. The dirty secret is that healthcare (and education and housing) are so expensive because they can be. You flat out have to have it to survive.
Even worse, unlike water and electricity, healthcare is convoluted and confusing, so not only do you not have a real choice in the matter, but your ability to assimilate and understand information is limited, making rational choice literally impossible. And without rational choice . . .
This, friend, leads to a breakdown in the market. But fret not, government can – – and does – – solve this issue for literally ever other developed nation on this planet. To great results.
Agent, of course, is unpersuaded. Are you?
Stan,
If you believe socialized medicine can do better, feel free to get out of the insurance field, as you have not studied how insurance works. Can the government then do all forms of insurance better? If they can’t, why not? This is simple to study and you have it indefinitely wrong. Why do monopolistic worker’s comp states do better than ones without it? The state can barely handle that. This is why we need it as an option, that it doesn’t work as a whole as efficiently as private systems, but private systems are not always affordable. But the option would provide for people who cannot afford it.
Premiums out vs premiums in vs investments to build capital. The government cannot build capital. It spends it. And it does have over head. Even if that was 4% (which most people agree Canada’s numbers are wrong, the overhead of the government is 10%) you then give a dollar to the government and get 90 cents back.
Insurance companies consistently get a dollar and pay out ratios over 1 for claims. It isn’t over by much, but all it needs to be is between 1-3% over a long period of time to allow for a huge amount more to be paid on health operations.
You neglect to note that our private insurance system pays more for insurance than any country’s public. Try to argue those costs are inflated, it doesn’t negate that the insurance companies pay out more than the governments. The insurance companies themselves are not causing the inflation in cost of the services. Go look at your bill after insurance companies negotiate down a service your insurance didn’t cover. It generally goes down by a huge margin. The cost without insurance companies doing that is huge.
Also: Obamacare is NOT the Heritage foundation’s creation. Just due to having a mandate, that obviously a majority of republicans didn’t agree with, and an exchange, does not make a 2,000 page plan the same as a republican one.
If they were the same, why did the Republicans have a separately CBO rated 2009 plan? You all try to talk the past suggestions of the republican party, and say it was Obamacare, it was not. It is absurd for you to make such a claim and I will not take you seriously in debate while you make the claim. You can say what you do or don’t agree with. You cannot call Obamacare a republican plan. It is not.
I shouldn’t use sarcasm in posts…
I was saying the monopolistic states are terrible.
I didnt say that the State should provide insurance. I said it should provide universal healthcare (eliminating the need for private insurance if you’re willing to accept the Government’s medical services).
Second, the reason that insurance companies pay more than other countries is simple: they have to.
Obamacare did a great job to expand access, but it did little to control costs. Single payer will address the cost issue. Ill even help your small, religious mind understand. For the same reason that Insurance companies can negotiate a lower rate: scale. They have lots of patients and command lower costs. Expanding on that principle, no one has more market power than the government, this alone will help to curb costs.
I couldnt care less about whether private insurance takes a hit or is more efficient either. Universal healthcare is good for the country as a whole. One, people are flat out healthier because they can finally see a physician (its the moral thing to do – a concept that is self evident to everyone except voters that believe in Jesus most).
Second, it will help to loosen up the labor market. The reason that people dont leave bad jobs is because they cant! They are tied to them because they need the insurance. You need a fluid labor market in order for wages to rise, else employers and not employees retain disparate bargaining power.
Third, it will allow for greater consumer spending on all other areas of the economy. Once people can afford something other than housing, healthcare, and education, they will buy it. They might even save money, or form a family. Which, ironically, will likely lead to more conservatives since most singles lean heavily democratic.
I wish I were more surprised that you don’t get this.
Amen!! The spirit of our Lord and Savior Ronald Reagan will finally save us!! His golden shower will trickle down his leg on to our heads just like his economy! McJob creators shall be rewarded for being the heroes they are! Let us join hands and pray for the dooms day preppers as they shall be the new world order leaders with all their military surplus toys and costumes. Civilization bad, me want stone age!
I am more and more convinced by your inane rants that you are sitting in a public library with a teddy bear in one hand wearing adult diapers waiting for your mom to pick you up.
Looks like I must have offended a “brah” from Sigma Gamma Tau. By the way, I was waiting for your mother to pick me up. We are supposed to make some home videos together. Diapers were part of the plan though and there was a librarian theme to boot.
Remember when the 6 million got their cancellation notices last year and were forced to apply for Obamacare? Then, it was walked back and delayed and Obama said they could keep their coverage if they liked it. Now, I have customers receiving notices that their coverage ceases 12-31-14 and they must apply for a new plan starting on Nov 15th. They really couldn’t keep their plan they liked after all.
Well if they truly want Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they would get off their lazy azz and work for it just like us. Instead, the liberals would rather keep the poor poor so they have a voting herd of low information voters.
At the very least, the F’n IRS could use people that speak clear English.
To clarify my last post, dealing with them today after a lengthy hold time. Can barely understand what they are saying and things get lost in the interpretation. One thing was clear, I need to bend over and take what ever the hell some pin head that barely speaks English tells me as truth. They just don’t care who they screw out of what.
How’s the house selling going, FFA? You need to move to improve your stress level. I think it’s going to kill you.
Frustrating to say the least. trying to spruce it up and every turn just cost more.
Hang in there. You’d be surprised what a little elbow grease and de-cluttering will do for your house. We boxed up a bunch of knick-knacks, cleaned windows inside and out, had carpets cleaned, tidied up the closets, and painted one room and ended up getting more than we asked for our house. Good luck!
My biggest concern is getting in the new place before the Nursing Home evicts my parents. Weighing very heavy on my shoulders right now. Got another court thing happening with the kids in a few weeks. That’s adding on to the pile. My wife and I are very strained right now. Couldn’t even get an hour myself to watch Sons last night without a dust up. I truly hate my life. Got the Hungry Heart feeling. “Got a wife and kids in Baltimore Jack…” Find me in the Caribbean on a beach.
Are you moving your parents with you to WI?
That is a probability. Its a 5 br room house. With their SS & Pension, we should be able to hire in help. Just need to put in a handicap bathroom.
BTW, my wife is the queen of clutter. Keeps bringing home OPs (Other Peoples s$#@). I’m gonna fix it up. I’m gonna sell it. But yet, it sits there doing nothing.
Clutter is a killer when trying to show your house. It needs to be boxed up and out of sight.
I moved an entire truck load out and two vans full of shit. As I was moving it, was wondering to my self, if we don’t need this stuff to live with, why am I moving it???? No the house is de cluttered, looks a lot nicer.
You could just make it “disappear”. Nobody would probably know the difference!
Hoping for a fire at the storage unit….