Marijuana is NOT harmless. Now that I got that out of the way, here are stats not included, that I believe are relevant.
Fatalities per million miles traveled, per 100,000 in population, per 100,000 registered vehicles and per 100,000 licensed drivers all went down from 2006 to 2016.
Could this be an indicator that increases in marijuana and decreases in alcohol within the systems of drivers in fatalities indicate marijuana has less impact on driving than alcohol?
Marijuana is NOT harmless. Now that I got that out of the way, here’s one thought on this report:
It’s very difficult to prove WHEN someone had smoked when they’re tested. It’s entirely possible that someone smoked 3 days before an accident, was completely sober for the incident, and still test positive for marijuana. It’s a lot easier to figure out when someone had last drunk alcohol using BAL based on height/weight/sex/etc., but that ‘reverse engineering’ doesn’t exist for marijuana yet.
Now that we agree that Marijuana is harmful, we can get on to banning it from the American landscape. It is mind altering as has been proven by what Progressives say and do. The fact is that smoking it will lead to other problems and increased drug use among those that partake. To put it in a different way, MARIJUANA IS JUST BAD.
“Now that we agree that Marijuana is harmful, we can get on to banning it from the American landscape.”
Where do you draw the line? Nicotine is addictive and alters the mind. Alcohol is addictive and alters the mind. So is coffee. Even doctor-prescribed medication is addictive and can alter the mind. Are we banning everything that’s addictive or we’re just going to stop at marijuana and let the other stuff stay legal?
Don’t forget processed foods, cell phones, cars, guns, political parties, violent video games, pollutants, nuclear waste, etc.
Anyone want to add to the list?
Let’s MAGA by getting rid of everything that is harmful.
June 5, 2018 at 4:29 pm
bob says:
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And here we go with that garbage.
Whataboutism, deflect to the supposed hypocrisy of your opponent.
Marijuana is not synonymous with any of the above.
By your logic there should be no regulations. Do you agree with that? Tomorrow, should LSD and Heroin be legal?
If not, then we should be weighing what is dangerous. You can’t just say “My opponent is a hypocrite” non stop. It doesn’t make arguments.
June 6, 2018 at 8:40 am
Ron says:
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“By your logic there should be no regulations. Do you agree with that? Tomorrow, should LSD and Heroin be legal?”
I believe the government has no place in legislating morality or protecting us from ourselves, only each other. They should spend more time and money on educating people on the dangers of these substances and regulating the industries that produce and distribute these substances.
There should also be very strict laws with very harsh penalties for harming others while under the influence of any mind altering substance.
June 6, 2018 at 1:54 pm
CCC says:
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@Agent: MJ has been “banned from the American landscape” for the past 80+ years. Time for a new approach.
No, it simply implies a decrease from a randomly selected base year, 2006. There is a decrease from 1994, the earliest year displayed, to 2016, but it isn’t as significant / large as the decrease from a near-peak year, 2006, to 2016. A TEN YEAR PERIOD isn’t ‘sacred’ or ‘more credible than’ a 12 or 15 or 20 year period.
Finally, and most important, there are plenty of variables other than the two mind-altering drugs you mentioned that contributed to the overall downward trend in fatalities per capita. For example, car safety features, traffic signal improvements, traffic controls on highways; e.g. HOV lanes, and improved driver training and re-training courses in school and long thereafter.
The only reason you have to say that beginning is because of how often you seek to lessen studies that suggest marijuana is harmful and should be regulated, as you recently said you think it shouldn’t be.
Given I know you cannot possibly think all drugs should be legal, I will assume this is because you do not believe marijuana poses any serious risks, and here you are lessening the impact of any study that shows it negatively.
This is you twisting semantics to make those who disagree with you seem crazy, rather than debating in facts.
You do it often. It’s absurd.
Let’s get this out of the way:
You irrationally defend marijuana and have a clear bias.
Now that we got that out of the way, are you ready to stop trying to dismiss those as irrational who think you have that bias which you do have?
Then you assume incorrectly, sir. (I believe I speak for Ron here) When we say something, our intent is NOT to play word jujitsu and really mean the opposite of what we posted.
Marijuana is NOT harmless =/= marijuana doesn’t pose any serious risks
Marijuana is NOT harmless = marijuana poses serious risks and is NOT harmless
“Then you assume incorrectly, sir. (I believe I speak for Ron here) When we say something, our intent is NOT to play word jujitsu and really mean the opposite of what we posted. ”
Either you don’t know yourself well enough to know what you’re doing, or you’re lying. I have watched these babbling poor excuses for arguments too long. “I’m not saying that marijuana has no harmful effects, just that if you’re going to regulate it regulate process foods! Derp!”
Whataboutism + calling people against marijuana hypocrites.
“Marijuana is NOT harmless =/= marijuana doesn’t pose any serious risks
Marijuana is NOT harmless = marijuana poses serious risks and is NOT harmless
Is that clear enough?”
Then match that up with your statements stating is shouldn’t be regulated. How do you bring those in line with reality?
You can’t. It’s just mumbo jumbo, and I’ve seen millennials do it too long, ergo, why I called Ron a liar when he said he was in his 40s. He’s not. He is my age, and likely so are you.
My generation was indoctrinated with this garbage way of thinking, and I still remember these style of debates in the 2000’s.
By that I mean: Marijuana isn’t as bad as people say! I’ll discount this bad study, and when someone says it should be regulated I’ll say they are hypocrites for not regulating bad food or video games or guns! Derp derp!
I’m tired of this childish style of debate. You two tried to side step the studies, and have tried to state marijuana issues are over exaggerated, you should expect the anti marijuana crowd to make their case, instead of constantly saying predefense of: “I am not saying it has no negative effects!!!” you should instead stop with a default line that is designed to say that those who discount you must be saying that, and to discredit them before they speak. That is the tactic, don’t try it with me, it doesn’t work.
Seriously bob? First I say “marijuana is NOT harmless” and you claim I’m saying there are no serious risks? Then you say “match that up with your statements stating is shouldn’t be regulated.” yet I’ve already said:
“3 – legalization WILL control potency of LEGAL sales of marijuana. everything has to be tested, approved and appropriately labeled before it can be sold.”
Are you intentionally reading the exact opposite of what I’ve posted or maybe you were just reading too fast and confused my posts with someone else’s? Let me try again……
Marijuana has serious side effects and is not harmless. If it’s going to be sold legally, it needs to be tested, approved, regulated and appropriately labeled so people know what they’re buying. Driving while intoxicated on marijuana is stupid, dangerous and should be treated the same as driving drunk. However, while testing for alcohol will prove someone is drunk at the exact time the test is given, tests for marijuana don’t actually prove if someone was high when the test was taken or if they had simply smoked many days before and were actually sober when they were tested.
Do you understand me now??
June 5, 2018 at 5:28 pm
bob says:
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Maybe you should stop speaking for Ron, if you don’t know what he’s saying.
Do you know what he’s saying?
I am replying to his mentality, and you’re supporting him. I have twice quoted him so far, in this page.
Are YOU reading?
You’re contradicting yourself heavy with this commentary.
“my posts with someone else’s? Let me try again……
Marijuana has serious side effects and is not harmless. If it’s going to be sold legally, it needs to be tested, approved, regulated and appropriately labeled so people know what they’re buying. Driving while intoxicated on marijuana is stupid, dangerous and should be treated the same as driving drunk. However, while testing for alcohol will prove someone is drunk at the exact time the test is given, tests for marijuana don’t actually prove if someone was high when the test was taken or if they had simply smoked many days before and were actually sober when they were tested.”
Testing something dangerous does not make it less dangerous, or harmful.
This comment is moot.
I have numerous times watched you use this argument style I’m talking about now with regards to agent, my problem is not your argument, it is in how you try to discredit him.
Quiz question: What is my stance on pot?
Go. I’ve only really said one comment regarding pot as to a strong stance.
I’m curious if you ever saw it or know anything about it.
So why am I so heavily rebuttling you? Have you ever stopped to think about this?
If you’re a moderate as you claim, you would know numerous times I disagree with conservative policy. So why do I focus on the left here?
Could it have something to do with the methods and means?
June 5, 2018 at 5:34 pm
bob says:
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The comment regarding pot was thus:
I would never hire someone who was notably addicted to pot, and for good reason I won’t go over here.
I recently said that the left was wildly disingenuous with any risks, not that I thought any existed, that is nearly the only other comment I’ve made on pot. How do you educate my generation on pot? In school? I’m over ten years graduated! They don’t intend on legalizing and educating. That’s a blatant lie, one you simply haven’t thought out or realize and side step.
A warning label won’t do the trick.
So I won’t hire a pot smoker, and I believe your side is ill prepared to make any precautions as needed.
Do I believe Pot is a health hazard though?
I’ll let you answer. What do you think Rosenblatt?
June 6, 2018 at 8:54 am
Ron says:
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I am comfortable with Rosenblatt speaking for me. You, on the other hand, not so much.
You have been so wrong about me and my positions over the years it has gone beyond absurd.
At no point have either of us side-stepped any studies, nor have we called for and and unregulated marijuana free-for-all or ever said marijuana is harmless.
June 6, 2018 at 10:02 am
Rosenblatt says:
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Thanks Ron. I’m always careful when I “speak” for someone else, I thought it was pretty clear you meant what you said and weren’t trying to say the opposite of what you posted.
bob – can we focus on the 3 facts that I keep posting and try to steer clear of all the other noise? Do you agree:
1) I have NEVER claimed marijuana should not be regulated – in fact, I re-posted where I previously said it SHOULD be regulated.
2) If you test positive for marijuana, there’s no way to prove when the last time you actually got high. So someone can test positive for marijuana today but they may not have smoked it since last week.
3) Marijuana is not harmless
Can we at least find common ground on those three points???
June 6, 2018 at 4:10 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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Although I sincerely hope I’m wrong, I don’t think bob will reply here anymore.
June 6, 2018 at 8:50 am
Ron says:
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The reason I have to say that in the beginning is because people like you have created a false narrative of those who support legalization that we think marijuana is harmless. THAT IS ALL.
I have advocated for the legalization of all drugs. Unlike you, I believe in freedom and liberty and that the government should be in the business of protecting us from others, not ourselves. You know, like the Constitution says.
Just because you think my position is irrational does not make it so. That is poor debating.
I never said those who take the opposite position are irrational. That is you trying to create another false narrative about me.
Lyrics by underrated Austin, TX singer and musician Michael Hall:
There’s nothing to do, there’s nothing to say
And everything I know, I knew yesterday
Until something new comes around
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Let’s do something dumb, let’s get in a fight
I’d rather get beat up than sit around all night
Let’s go get some lights, let’s go get some sound
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Drive around
Gas up the car, get some beer too
How about a six-pack for me and a twelve-pack for you
Turn off your TV
When you were a kid you didn’t want to grow up and be a bum
Be treated like the morons we’ve become
I turn on my radio, all I hear is metal and Motown
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Drive around
Turn out the headlights, let’s go get lost
And every blind lane we must cross
Every poor boy who fears for his life
Get out of our way or get in and ride
As we drive and drive
Love the speculation, guys. Anything to defend the Weed.
Here’s another possibility: drug users kill more people in cars than non-drug users.
Did you see that the Mexican cartels have set up shop in California, Colorado and Washington? You see, it is easier to grow pot in the US than in Mexico. No border issues. Duh. (So much for “legalization ending the cartels” nonsense.) And then the cartels can ship to other states in the US from California, Colorado and Washington. So much for the failure of the War on Drugs.
Did you see California announced that projected revenue and taxes from legal sales of pot are FAR below the numbers used when the Pot Pushers sold legalization? Seems the black market is getting bigger, not smaller (not my opinion, their opinion). Now, they have proposed reducing the tax on pot from 15 to 11%. Guess who is opposed? Counties with huge, illegal pot growing, such as Humboldt and Calaveras. Duh.
So much for the “end of the Black Market” lie.
Now, we see rising deaths from pot heads driving while stoned. Duh. The Pot Fans didn’t seem to care much about that when pushing legalization.
And now you guys go into SpeculationVille to defend Mother Weed. Laughable.
Got it all. Laughable and sad. People high on pot kill people with cars. Trying to cloud the issue with the challenge of testing for pot is pathetic. Of course it is hard to test because of how long it stays in the system. What is the point?
Legalizing marijuana leads to more marijuana use. Every study proves it. And more marijuana use creates more deaths from car accidents caused by people high on pot. Every study proves it.
You like death? What is it you want? To stop testing? To pretend this study is a fraud? Pathetic speculation.
so you think it is better to make the list of things that kill people in cars longer? That is pretty sad. I am tired of the best argument that pot advocates can come up with is all this other stuff if harmful too. It’s absurd. You might as well be honest and say I like pot and am going support legalization no matter what. That at least would be honest. I would disagree but appreciate you not being disingenuous.
May 31, 2018 at 2:59 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, couldn’t help but notice that you left off “Texting while Driving” which is rapidly closing in on Alcohol as a leading cause of accidents which cause deaths. Does this mean that you think Texting while driving is insignificant?
May 31, 2018 at 3:03 pm
Craig Cornell says:
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So, you are in favor of having more of all of these things?
Or only in favor of more marijuana-induced car deaths?
I’m not clear on your message.
May 31, 2018 at 3:18 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
It was not meant to be all inclusive. Feel free to add it to the list.
May 31, 2018 at 3:20 pm
Ron says:
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Craig,
The point I was making is that as marijuana use increased, the rate of auto fatalities has actually decreased. That is with the increase in texting and driving.
May 31, 2018 at 7:48 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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@Ron; can you identify separately the deaths attributable to marijuana vs. other deaths? I’m not aware of the stats in this article.
June 1, 2018 at 7:56 am
Ron says:
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PolarBeaRepeal,
The fact that you asked this question proves you dud not comprehend the point of my post.
June 1, 2018 at 2:03 pm
FFA says:
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Ron, you forgot distracted driving.
June 4, 2018 at 8:31 am
Ron says:
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FFA,
As I said to Agent, it was not meant to be all inclusive. Feel free to add it to the list.
May 31, 2018 at 3:04 pm
Agent says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Craig, looks like you have the stoner bots aroused today judging from the dislikes they are giving you. By the way, the article also includes Opioids as a cause. Often, the stoners move right over to Opiods, Meth and other dangerous drugs and then also use Alcohol while driving. These people are as dangerous as a Tesla on Autopilot.
Agent – new doc for the wife. He is putting her on NArcan – the OD drug. Its believed to block the nerve sensors for pain the same as someone going through an OD. Not enough studies Its not a narcotic. Its not a proven thing yet, but its “been known to work as effective for paid as for ODs'”.
May 31, 2018 at 3:10 pm
Perplexed says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Craig Cornell, I know the libs don’t care much for you but I am enjoying your comments a lot.
Independents like myself just do not want the big bad government dictating how we live our lives by legislating morality. Don’t pass laws that protect us from ourselves (using drugs), and focus on passing laws that protect us from others (causing harm while under the influence). Get it?
June 1, 2018 at 6:33 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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@Ron; so you don’t support forcing bakeries to cater to Same Sex Weddings, religious orgs being forced to offer abortion coverage or birth control products in their group health insurance plan, etc.?
June 1, 2018 at 8:00 am
Ron says:
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PolarBeaRepeal,
The bakery, like every other private business, should be able to decide with whom they wish to do business. Same as ABC has every right to cancel Roseanne and keep broadcasting The View.
I am torn on the religious organizations’ rights because they are tax exempt. I would prefer they lose their tax exempt status and be treated like all other private businesses. Then I would fully support their right to offer or deny what coverages are provided to their employees.
June 1, 2018 at 8:14 am
Rosenblatt says:
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Craig asked me “Of course it is hard to test because of how long it stays in the system. What is the point?”
The point is that someone can test positive for marijuana, but there’s no way to know from these tests if they are CURRENTLY under the influence or if they had smoked days before the crash and were 100% sober when the accident happened.
To reiterate: marijuana is NOT harmless and there are lots of people who drive stoned and that’s unsafe.
And the people who drive stoned sometimes kill people.
And people who advocate for legalization need to take responsibility for the fact that one consequence is that more people in states with legalized recreational marijuana will have growing rates of marijuana users, according to ALL evidence.
And as a result, people who advocate for marijuana legalization must take responsibility for the fact that there will be more accidents in those states due to stoned driving, and more dead people as a result.
Pretending otherwise is just being dishonest.
June 1, 2018 at 11:43 am
Rosenblatt says:
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I am not pretending that stuff doesn’t happen — which is why I parroted Ron’s initial comment that Marijuana is NOT harmless. I’m making one simple point … or at least I thought it was a simple point.
Just because you test positive for marijuana does not prove that you’re actually inebriated at the time the test was taken. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about that. Simple yes or no – do you agree with that statement?
June 1, 2018 at 12:35 pm
Ron says:
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Craig,
Why should I take responsibility for the poor choices of others just because I want the government to stay out of the private lives of the citizens?
Nothing is perfect and there will always be people who cause harm to others while under the influence of something that is already legal, such as alcohol, prescription drugs, texting (just for you Agent), etc. We live in a free society that has some negative consequences. Punish those who cause harm to others, not themselves.
June 4, 2018 at 12:59 pm
Agent says:
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Marijuana is bad whenever it is smoked. Quit with the word parsing. Do you not understand a simple concept?
To the word parser in chief, we don’t need several paragraphs of nonsense to understand Marijuana is a scourge on our society. It apparently is needed for losers.
Marijuana is not harmless when getting behind the wheel of a car? Tell that to the families of the countless victims of people driving while impaired. Slowed reflexes and lack of attentiveness are just part of the equation for disaster on our roads. Our lack of a viable test to see and “prove” how impaired they were at the time of a crash must be found or you can count on these numbers deteriorating rapidly. The use of MJ and alcohol in combination only worsens the problem. We should not accept that legalized marijuana is not without consequences.
Correct, Steve – marijuana is NOT harmless. Meaning is can cause harm. No one here is suggested it is harmless. So, I think we all agree with what you are saying.
The stats mean more than words and those who say marijuana is harmless are not only living a lie, but they are defending a decline of our society because it serves their personal interests.
You, Rosenblatt and Sal all said it is NOT harmless, yet Agent, Craig and Steve all seem to have a reading comprehension….I like when Steve even poses the question:
Marijuana is not harmless when getting behind the wheel of a car? Tell that to the families…..
Commenters of IJ: Read, Comprehend, THEN type away!
It’s clear to me that NO ONE is taking a stance at a polar extreme. The disagreements are over the magnitude of harmfulness of marijuana. Ron, Rosenblatt, and Sal seem to be downplaying the harmfulness while also admitting it isn’t harmless. The others, Agent, Craig, and Steve, are all pointing to the greater harmfulness than is implied by Rosenblatt, Ron, and Sal. Carry on.
My comment, word for word, was “I would like to reiterate that marijuana is NOT harmless.”
Please, explain to the class how I implied anything other than what I wrote in that comment. I’ll wait for your apology (which I’ve never seen you give to ANYONE, despite how many times they’ve proven you wrong). Let’s see what an honorable man you truly are: . Ready, Steady, GO!!!
June 1, 2018 at 8:17 am
Rosenblatt says:
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You’re an idiot. What part of “Marijuana is NOT harmless” do you think means we are “….admitting it isn’t harmless.”?
June 1, 2018 at 12:41 pm
sal says:
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Polar–
Still waiting on that apology. You know how to do that right? It”s what all good parents teach their children: When you’re wrong, you apologize, shake hands, and move on.
That’s ok, I’ve seen enough posts from you and Agent that I don’t really expect an apology when you’re actually wrong on something.
June 5, 2018 at 11:23 am
helpingout says:
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Agent/Polar/Mike,
The fact you cannot admit you were wrong and constantly making arguments that no one here is arguing for proves that you are not here for meaningful discussion on this issue. We who argue for legalization admit that there is harm that cannabis can cause, but we also want it regulated more and to be studied further with actual statistics (more than a few hundred). If this were to happen I hope that one day we can create a device similar to the one that tests alcohol right away. If we have that and someone was dangerously operating a vehicle under the influence they should be in jail because that is very unsafe for those who are responsible adults.
June 5, 2018 at 1:35 pm
sal says:
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helpingout–
I honestly believe that Agent and Polar are different people. You’ll find that neither of them have never and will never apologize for anything, regardless of when facts prove them wrong. It will simply never happen, because in their minds, they’re NEVER wrong.
Craig, on the other hand. tends to be more generally respectful and well thought-out with his responses. He will answer any question posed to him and tries to make others see where he’s coming from, rather than just repeating the same Limbaugh / Hannity / Coulter talking points.
June 1, 2018 at 10:24 am
MassVocals says:
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sorry you are suffering from the disease known as mala prohibita The propaganda skewed by government mandates all pack of lies for over a 100 years, Please take some cannabis and cure yourselves.. as those lies equate to alcohol reasoning
Yikes. All these people saying “marijuana is harmless” and then trying to discredit the story that states the obvious fact: people high on pot kill people.
Do in fact people high on pot kill people when driving? Or not?
Hello? Anyone with a straight, honest answer on a simple question?
Literally nobody said that, the quotation marks are a fabrication. This was explained in the comments prior to you jumping on board with the same mistake. You put quotes around words that cannot be quoted anywhere in the comments, and this statement was only implied by someone failing to properly state your side of the argument (Steve’s double negative suggests no impact, but at least he used the correct quote despite not understanding what it meant).
Sort of makes your question moot (well, all four questions, maybe a bit too aggressive?), since it was previously stated, with frequency by all sides, that it is not harmless. It makes it seem like you’re spoiling for a fight, which I guess seems to be most of us these days, when we’re not face to face with someone, but this target seemed too good to be true… and it was. If you want to lash out at me here be my guest, though ignoring accurate dissent is really the hot partisan tactic on these boards. Name calling is an option too, though I can’t recall that being your M.O. Either way, I won’t even respond because my intent isn’t to rile you up, just get it out of your system before you drive:
I misstated. Should have been that people are saying “marijuana is NOT harmless”. And then they go on to try to discredit this story with theories about pot replacing booze and the testing is faulty for pot users.
So now, why not answer the question? Do people high on pot kill people while driving?
I’m not in favor of legalizing MJ beyond medical use (which is ok with me if heavily regulated).
However, if MJ IS going to be legal, and until they can objectively determine “when” someone smoked it and how high they are, there should be ZERO tolerance on the roads. They test positive while driving, throw the book at ’em. This is the way to keep from having lawyers muddying up the waters with “he tested positive but hasn’t smoked a joint for three days” and taking teeth out of zero tolerance laws.
Driving while impaired by any substance is irresponsible and dangerous. I don’t think anyone is disputing that here. It is also already illegal in every state, as far as I know.
We do need to come up with a reliable test for MJ impairment, as having trace amounts of MJ (medicinal or recreational) in one’s system does not automatically mean one is impaired.
We’ll get there. Local/State legalization is still relatively new, and MJ is still illegal at the Federal level. This will change, allowing accurate impairment tests to be developed, and then we can throw the book at people that decide to drive under the influence.
FIRST of all this test for cannabis is faults as any test used today test for metabolite known as THC COOH the active known component that impairs is know as delta 9 THC which there is no scientific test , no matter how any times you hear driver under influence of Cannabis and was tested they test for THC COOH and no level can produce any logical reasoning to impairment , so this study /results are faults or Lies
Massvocals
OH, by the way, CARS kill people so let’s make cars illegal right away, as you all know you as an indivisible person cannot always be trusted to control your death machine your CAR beside this cars kill more the 1/2 million people in US every year its really more then that so we must make cars illegal they also cause so much pollution that people get cancer so we must ban cars Please call your government rep and dump the car campaign as its HIGH time we FLY
Google “Carbofuran”. It is a pesticide that is banned in the United States. A quarter teaspoon of Carbofuran can kill a 300 pound bear.
Recent news reports estimate that more than half of all the black market marijuana grown in California is contaminated with Carbofuran. Why, you ask? It seems the pesticide is being brought up from Mexico to help grow marijuana (can you say “Cartels”?).
So much for legalization killing the black market.
Of course there is still a black market. It is still illegal in most of the states. Until it is legalized nationwide, there will be black markets.
Yes, black markets will likely continue to exist even if it is legalized, but the influence will be significantly reduced. Only those willing to take a chance of obtaining tainted product, ill go to the black markets. Most will prefer to obtain a well-regulated product for safety.
Craig — I take it from your post that if marijuana was properly regulated and tested before it was sold legally, that would alleviate your concerns about people ingesting Carbofuran?
My point is the same as before: we were sold Legalization on lies. And no one is taking responsibility for the lies. Lies that legalization would:
1. Kill the black market.
2. Raise enormous tax dollars (now estimated to be half that promised).
3. Control potency.
4. Keep marijuana away from kids.
5. Hurt the Cartels.
And now the Cartels are poisoning potheads. So pot fans can damage their brains AND their bodies at the same time.
Anyone care to take responsibility? (And no one talked about more dead on the roads at all.)
Craig–my personal opinion? The states saw the potential tax $$$ first. That’s usually how it works.
It’s like when Atlantic City legalized gambling…They envisioned a Las Vegas on the East Coast, one that would pump millions of dollars into the state economy. For a few years, it was. Ever gone there? Hint: don’t.
Soooo …. if marijuana was properly regulated and tested before it was sold legally, would that alleviate your concerns about people ingesting Carbofuran?
As for your other points: I have never argued any of those points, so I have nothing to take responsibility for. That said:
1 – Black markets currently exist for legal products (think over the counter pain medication), so legalization of any drug isn’t going to be any different than it currently is.
2 – going to need to see some actual data from you that it’s “half as much as was promised”, but I agree revenue from taxes is not as much as originally estimated
3 – legalization WILL control potency of LEGAL sales of marijuana. everything has to be tested, approved and appropriately labeled before it can be sold.
4 – Don’t see how that’s possible. I mean, kids can still get their hands on firearms and alcohol and those are illegal up to a certain age. Why would marijuana be any different
5 – going to need to see some actual data from you on that point
1 – Black markets currently exist for legal products (think *doctor prescribed* pain medication)
June 4, 2018 at 4:48 pm
Craig Cornell says:
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I said Google “Carbofuran”. Many news articles on it, so yes, pot heads are poisoning brain and body.
Also, as I have said many times – and what is obvious – is that pot is unlike alcohol or firearms. It is easy to grow pot in your garage and sell it by under pricing the legal, high tax stuff sold by regular, leagal marijuana businesses that have high overhead (esp. in California).
It is NOT easy to make alcohol – or guns for that matter. This point was so obvious that I couldn’t believe the “end of the black market” lies were believed by anyone with a brain.
June 5, 2018 at 1:06 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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I know what you said – I was asking what you THOUGHT. You don’t think it’s easy to make your own alcohol? Where have you been the past 10+ years??
June 5, 2018 at 9:53 am
Ron says:
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Craig,
There is no way to know if these will or won’t be realized until marijuana is legalized nationally. Until then, it is all speculation on what the long-term effects will be.
“We don’t know what marijuana will do. So let’s legalize it nationally.”
Yikes. Not sure about your logic.
We DO know: the Black Market is thriving. Marijuana is being sold all over the country out of 3 states (CA, CO, WA), because the cartels are now protected from serious prosecution for growing pot.
Deaths from car accidents due to stoned drivers are increasing.
Tax receipts are far lower than projected, largely due to a thriving black market that can forever underprice the legal stuff and also offer more potent alternatives than the legally controlled stuff.
We do know that MJ doubles your chances of mental illness; just statistics my friend. We also know if damages the IQ of young people who smoke regularly.
We also know that use by African Americans is very high, as high as 70% of all adults. THAT ought to help make blacks equal in America, no?
Legalize nationally? Sure! What could go wrong?
June 7, 2018 at 4:01 pm
Agent says:
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Craig, don’t pay any attention to the double Obama voter. Claims he is Independent as well. Wow, no common sense at all.
Marijuana is NOT harmless. Now that I got that out of the way, here are stats not included, that I believe are relevant.
Fatalities per million miles traveled, per 100,000 in population, per 100,000 registered vehicles and per 100,000 licensed drivers all went down from 2006 to 2016.
https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Could this be an indicator that increases in marijuana and decreases in alcohol within the systems of drivers in fatalities indicate marijuana has less impact on driving than alcohol?
Marijuana is NOT harmless. Now that I got that out of the way, here’s one thought on this report:
It’s very difficult to prove WHEN someone had smoked when they’re tested. It’s entirely possible that someone smoked 3 days before an accident, was completely sober for the incident, and still test positive for marijuana. It’s a lot easier to figure out when someone had last drunk alcohol using BAL based on height/weight/sex/etc., but that ‘reverse engineering’ doesn’t exist for marijuana yet.
Grasping at straws, again?
Now that we agree that Marijuana is harmful, we can get on to banning it from the American landscape. It is mind altering as has been proven by what Progressives say and do. The fact is that smoking it will lead to other problems and increased drug use among those that partake. To put it in a different way, MARIJUANA IS JUST BAD.
“Now that we agree that Marijuana is harmful, we can get on to banning it from the American landscape.”
Where do you draw the line? Nicotine is addictive and alters the mind. Alcohol is addictive and alters the mind. So is coffee. Even doctor-prescribed medication is addictive and can alter the mind. Are we banning everything that’s addictive or we’re just going to stop at marijuana and let the other stuff stay legal?
Don’t forget processed foods, cell phones, cars, guns, political parties, violent video games, pollutants, nuclear waste, etc.
Anyone want to add to the list?
Let’s MAGA by getting rid of everything that is harmful.
And here we go with that garbage.
Whataboutism, deflect to the supposed hypocrisy of your opponent.
Marijuana is not synonymous with any of the above.
By your logic there should be no regulations. Do you agree with that? Tomorrow, should LSD and Heroin be legal?
If not, then we should be weighing what is dangerous. You can’t just say “My opponent is a hypocrite” non stop. It doesn’t make arguments.
“By your logic there should be no regulations. Do you agree with that? Tomorrow, should LSD and Heroin be legal?”
I believe the government has no place in legislating morality or protecting us from ourselves, only each other. They should spend more time and money on educating people on the dangers of these substances and regulating the industries that produce and distribute these substances.
There should also be very strict laws with very harsh penalties for harming others while under the influence of any mind altering substance.
@Agent: MJ has been “banned from the American landscape” for the past 80+ years. Time for a new approach.
No, it simply implies a decrease from a randomly selected base year, 2006. There is a decrease from 1994, the earliest year displayed, to 2016, but it isn’t as significant / large as the decrease from a near-peak year, 2006, to 2016. A TEN YEAR PERIOD isn’t ‘sacred’ or ‘more credible than’ a 12 or 15 or 20 year period.
Finally, and most important, there are plenty of variables other than the two mind-altering drugs you mentioned that contributed to the overall downward trend in fatalities per capita. For example, car safety features, traffic signal improvements, traffic controls on highways; e.g. HOV lanes, and improved driver training and re-training courses in school and long thereafter.
It was NOT a random year. 2006 to 2016 was the range used in the study.
The only reason you have to say that beginning is because of how often you seek to lessen studies that suggest marijuana is harmful and should be regulated, as you recently said you think it shouldn’t be.
Given I know you cannot possibly think all drugs should be legal, I will assume this is because you do not believe marijuana poses any serious risks, and here you are lessening the impact of any study that shows it negatively.
This is you twisting semantics to make those who disagree with you seem crazy, rather than debating in facts.
You do it often. It’s absurd.
Let’s get this out of the way:
You irrationally defend marijuana and have a clear bias.
Now that we got that out of the way, are you ready to stop trying to dismiss those as irrational who think you have that bias which you do have?
Then you assume incorrectly, sir. (I believe I speak for Ron here) When we say something, our intent is NOT to play word jujitsu and really mean the opposite of what we posted.
Marijuana is NOT harmless =/= marijuana doesn’t pose any serious risks
Marijuana is NOT harmless = marijuana poses serious risks and is NOT harmless
Is that clear enough?
“Then you assume incorrectly, sir. (I believe I speak for Ron here) When we say something, our intent is NOT to play word jujitsu and really mean the opposite of what we posted. ”
Either you don’t know yourself well enough to know what you’re doing, or you’re lying. I have watched these babbling poor excuses for arguments too long. “I’m not saying that marijuana has no harmful effects, just that if you’re going to regulate it regulate process foods! Derp!”
Whataboutism + calling people against marijuana hypocrites.
“Marijuana is NOT harmless =/= marijuana doesn’t pose any serious risks
Marijuana is NOT harmless = marijuana poses serious risks and is NOT harmless
Is that clear enough?”
Then match that up with your statements stating is shouldn’t be regulated. How do you bring those in line with reality?
You can’t. It’s just mumbo jumbo, and I’ve seen millennials do it too long, ergo, why I called Ron a liar when he said he was in his 40s. He’s not. He is my age, and likely so are you.
My generation was indoctrinated with this garbage way of thinking, and I still remember these style of debates in the 2000’s.
By that I mean: Marijuana isn’t as bad as people say! I’ll discount this bad study, and when someone says it should be regulated I’ll say they are hypocrites for not regulating bad food or video games or guns! Derp derp!
I’m tired of this childish style of debate. You two tried to side step the studies, and have tried to state marijuana issues are over exaggerated, you should expect the anti marijuana crowd to make their case, instead of constantly saying predefense of: “I am not saying it has no negative effects!!!” you should instead stop with a default line that is designed to say that those who discount you must be saying that, and to discredit them before they speak. That is the tactic, don’t try it with me, it doesn’t work.
It’s weak.
Seriously bob? First I say “marijuana is NOT harmless” and you claim I’m saying there are no serious risks? Then you say “match that up with your statements stating is shouldn’t be regulated.” yet I’ve already said:
“3 – legalization WILL control potency of LEGAL sales of marijuana. everything has to be tested, approved and appropriately labeled before it can be sold.”
Are you intentionally reading the exact opposite of what I’ve posted or maybe you were just reading too fast and confused my posts with someone else’s? Let me try again……
Marijuana has serious side effects and is not harmless. If it’s going to be sold legally, it needs to be tested, approved, regulated and appropriately labeled so people know what they’re buying. Driving while intoxicated on marijuana is stupid, dangerous and should be treated the same as driving drunk. However, while testing for alcohol will prove someone is drunk at the exact time the test is given, tests for marijuana don’t actually prove if someone was high when the test was taken or if they had simply smoked many days before and were actually sober when they were tested.
Do you understand me now??
Maybe you should stop speaking for Ron, if you don’t know what he’s saying.
Do you know what he’s saying?
I am replying to his mentality, and you’re supporting him. I have twice quoted him so far, in this page.
Are YOU reading?
You’re contradicting yourself heavy with this commentary.
“my posts with someone else’s? Let me try again……
Marijuana has serious side effects and is not harmless. If it’s going to be sold legally, it needs to be tested, approved, regulated and appropriately labeled so people know what they’re buying. Driving while intoxicated on marijuana is stupid, dangerous and should be treated the same as driving drunk. However, while testing for alcohol will prove someone is drunk at the exact time the test is given, tests for marijuana don’t actually prove if someone was high when the test was taken or if they had simply smoked many days before and were actually sober when they were tested.”
Testing something dangerous does not make it less dangerous, or harmful.
This comment is moot.
I have numerous times watched you use this argument style I’m talking about now with regards to agent, my problem is not your argument, it is in how you try to discredit him.
Quiz question: What is my stance on pot?
Go. I’ve only really said one comment regarding pot as to a strong stance.
I’m curious if you ever saw it or know anything about it.
So why am I so heavily rebuttling you? Have you ever stopped to think about this?
If you’re a moderate as you claim, you would know numerous times I disagree with conservative policy. So why do I focus on the left here?
Could it have something to do with the methods and means?
The comment regarding pot was thus:
I would never hire someone who was notably addicted to pot, and for good reason I won’t go over here.
I recently said that the left was wildly disingenuous with any risks, not that I thought any existed, that is nearly the only other comment I’ve made on pot. How do you educate my generation on pot? In school? I’m over ten years graduated! They don’t intend on legalizing and educating. That’s a blatant lie, one you simply haven’t thought out or realize and side step.
A warning label won’t do the trick.
So I won’t hire a pot smoker, and I believe your side is ill prepared to make any precautions as needed.
Do I believe Pot is a health hazard though?
I’ll let you answer. What do you think Rosenblatt?
I am comfortable with Rosenblatt speaking for me. You, on the other hand, not so much.
You have been so wrong about me and my positions over the years it has gone beyond absurd.
At no point have either of us side-stepped any studies, nor have we called for and and unregulated marijuana free-for-all or ever said marijuana is harmless.
Thanks Ron. I’m always careful when I “speak” for someone else, I thought it was pretty clear you meant what you said and weren’t trying to say the opposite of what you posted.
bob – can we focus on the 3 facts that I keep posting and try to steer clear of all the other noise? Do you agree:
1) I have NEVER claimed marijuana should not be regulated – in fact, I re-posted where I previously said it SHOULD be regulated.
2) If you test positive for marijuana, there’s no way to prove when the last time you actually got high. So someone can test positive for marijuana today but they may not have smoked it since last week.
3) Marijuana is not harmless
Can we at least find common ground on those three points???
Although I sincerely hope I’m wrong, I don’t think bob will reply here anymore.
The reason I have to say that in the beginning is because people like you have created a false narrative of those who support legalization that we think marijuana is harmless. THAT IS ALL.
I have advocated for the legalization of all drugs. Unlike you, I believe in freedom and liberty and that the government should be in the business of protecting us from others, not ourselves. You know, like the Constitution says.
Just because you think my position is irrational does not make it so. That is poor debating.
I never said those who take the opposite position are irrational. That is you trying to create another false narrative about me.
Lyrics by underrated Austin, TX singer and musician Michael Hall:
There’s nothing to do, there’s nothing to say
And everything I know, I knew yesterday
Until something new comes around
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Let’s do something dumb, let’s get in a fight
I’d rather get beat up than sit around all night
Let’s go get some lights, let’s go get some sound
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Drive around
Gas up the car, get some beer too
How about a six-pack for me and a twelve-pack for you
Turn off your TV
When you were a kid you didn’t want to grow up and be a bum
Be treated like the morons we’ve become
I turn on my radio, all I hear is metal and Motown
Let’s go take some drugs and drive around
Drive around
Turn out the headlights, let’s go get lost
And every blind lane we must cross
Every poor boy who fears for his life
Get out of our way or get in and ride
As we drive and drive
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
What parts of “Marijuana is NOT harmless” and “It’s very difficult to prove WHEN someone had smoked when they’re tested” did you not understand?
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Other things that cause people to kill with cars:
1. Inexperience
2. High speeds
3. Falling asleep
4. Alcohol
5. Anger
6. Reckless driving
so you think it is better to make the list of things that kill people in cars longer? That is pretty sad. I am tired of the best argument that pot advocates can come up with is all this other stuff if harmful too. It’s absurd. You might as well be honest and say I like pot and am going support legalization no matter what. That at least would be honest. I would disagree but appreciate you not being disingenuous.
Ron, couldn’t help but notice that you left off “Texting while Driving” which is rapidly closing in on Alcohol as a leading cause of accidents which cause deaths. Does this mean that you think Texting while driving is insignificant?
So, you are in favor of having more of all of these things?
Or only in favor of more marijuana-induced car deaths?
I’m not clear on your message.
Agent,
It was not meant to be all inclusive. Feel free to add it to the list.
Craig,
The point I was making is that as marijuana use increased, the rate of auto fatalities has actually decreased. That is with the increase in texting and driving.
@Ron; can you identify separately the deaths attributable to marijuana vs. other deaths? I’m not aware of the stats in this article.
PolarBeaRepeal,
The fact that you asked this question proves you dud not comprehend the point of my post.
Ron, you forgot distracted driving.
FFA,
As I said to Agent, it was not meant to be all inclusive. Feel free to add it to the list.
Craig, looks like you have the stoner bots aroused today judging from the dislikes they are giving you. By the way, the article also includes Opioids as a cause. Often, the stoners move right over to Opiods, Meth and other dangerous drugs and then also use Alcohol while driving. These people are as dangerous as a Tesla on Autopilot.
Agent – new doc for the wife. He is putting her on NArcan – the OD drug. Its believed to block the nerve sensors for pain the same as someone going through an OD. Not enough studies Its not a narcotic. Its not a proven thing yet, but its “been known to work as effective for paid as for ODs'”.
Craig Cornell, I know the libs don’t care much for you but I am enjoying your comments a lot.
Independents like myself just do not want the big bad government dictating how we live our lives by legislating morality. Don’t pass laws that protect us from ourselves (using drugs), and focus on passing laws that protect us from others (causing harm while under the influence). Get it?
@Ron; so you don’t support forcing bakeries to cater to Same Sex Weddings, religious orgs being forced to offer abortion coverage or birth control products in their group health insurance plan, etc.?
PolarBeaRepeal,
The bakery, like every other private business, should be able to decide with whom they wish to do business. Same as ABC has every right to cancel Roseanne and keep broadcasting The View.
I am torn on the religious organizations’ rights because they are tax exempt. I would prefer they lose their tax exempt status and be treated like all other private businesses. Then I would fully support their right to offer or deny what coverages are provided to their employees.
Craig asked me “Of course it is hard to test because of how long it stays in the system. What is the point?”
The point is that someone can test positive for marijuana, but there’s no way to know from these tests if they are CURRENTLY under the influence or if they had smoked days before the crash and were 100% sober when the accident happened.
To reiterate: marijuana is NOT harmless and there are lots of people who drive stoned and that’s unsafe.
And the people who drive stoned sometimes kill people.
And people who advocate for legalization need to take responsibility for the fact that one consequence is that more people in states with legalized recreational marijuana will have growing rates of marijuana users, according to ALL evidence.
And as a result, people who advocate for marijuana legalization must take responsibility for the fact that there will be more accidents in those states due to stoned driving, and more dead people as a result.
Pretending otherwise is just being dishonest.
I am not pretending that stuff doesn’t happen — which is why I parroted Ron’s initial comment that Marijuana is NOT harmless. I’m making one simple point … or at least I thought it was a simple point.
Just because you test positive for marijuana does not prove that you’re actually inebriated at the time the test was taken. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about that. Simple yes or no – do you agree with that statement?
Craig,
Why should I take responsibility for the poor choices of others just because I want the government to stay out of the private lives of the citizens?
Nothing is perfect and there will always be people who cause harm to others while under the influence of something that is already legal, such as alcohol, prescription drugs, texting (just for you Agent), etc. We live in a free society that has some negative consequences. Punish those who cause harm to others, not themselves.
Marijuana is bad whenever it is smoked. Quit with the word parsing. Do you not understand a simple concept?
Except for when is stops seizures, cures diseases, reduces anxiety, makes people like Agent, bob, and Yogi tolerable, etc.
Who wants to add to the list?
Not sure I agree that it actually “cures diseases”, but I’ll add to the list – it increases appetite for people who have anorexia
The disingenuous behavior of you and Ron is so blatant I cannot believe it.
Do you really feel this reply is a good defense of your behavior, and covers your bias?
I don’t.
I would like to reiterate: Marijuana is NOT harmless.
A better response would be to say Marijuana is “harmful”.
Now who is word parsing?
To the word parser in chief, we don’t need several paragraphs of nonsense to understand Marijuana is a scourge on our society. It apparently is needed for losers.
blatant ignorance is also a scourge on society, but widely practiced by many.
MARCH 29, 2018 AT 1:25 PM
Agent says:
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Nice word parse and nice try.
Marijuana is not harmless when getting behind the wheel of a car? Tell that to the families of the countless victims of people driving while impaired. Slowed reflexes and lack of attentiveness are just part of the equation for disaster on our roads. Our lack of a viable test to see and “prove” how impaired they were at the time of a crash must be found or you can count on these numbers deteriorating rapidly. The use of MJ and alcohol in combination only worsens the problem. We should not accept that legalized marijuana is not without consequences.
Correct, Steve – marijuana is NOT harmless. Meaning is can cause harm. No one here is suggested it is harmless. So, I think we all agree with what you are saying.
The stats mean more than words and those who say marijuana is harmless are not only living a lie, but they are defending a decline of our society because it serves their personal interests.
Who is saying marijuana is harmless?
Ron,
You, Rosenblatt and Sal all said it is NOT harmless, yet Agent, Craig and Steve all seem to have a reading comprehension….I like when Steve even poses the question:
Marijuana is not harmless when getting behind the wheel of a car? Tell that to the families…..
Commenters of IJ: Read, Comprehend, THEN type away!
Reading is fundamental!,
Thank you!!!!!
If that actually happened, there would be far fewer posts and we might even learn to understand each other better.
It’s clear to me that NO ONE is taking a stance at a polar extreme. The disagreements are over the magnitude of harmfulness of marijuana. Ron, Rosenblatt, and Sal seem to be downplaying the harmfulness while also admitting it isn’t harmless. The others, Agent, Craig, and Steve, are all pointing to the greater harmfulness than is implied by Rosenblatt, Ron, and Sal. Carry on.
Polar–
My comment, word for word, was “I would like to reiterate that marijuana is NOT harmless.”
Please, explain to the class how I implied anything other than what I wrote in that comment. I’ll wait for your apology (which I’ve never seen you give to ANYONE, despite how many times they’ve proven you wrong). Let’s see what an honorable man you truly are: . Ready, Steady, GO!!!
You’re an idiot. What part of “Marijuana is NOT harmless” do you think means we are “….admitting it isn’t harmless.”?
Polar–
Still waiting on that apology. You know how to do that right? It”s what all good parents teach their children: When you’re wrong, you apologize, shake hands, and move on.
That’s ok, I’ve seen enough posts from you and Agent that I don’t really expect an apology when you’re actually wrong on something.
Agent/Polar/Mike,
The fact you cannot admit you were wrong and constantly making arguments that no one here is arguing for proves that you are not here for meaningful discussion on this issue. We who argue for legalization admit that there is harm that cannabis can cause, but we also want it regulated more and to be studied further with actual statistics (more than a few hundred). If this were to happen I hope that one day we can create a device similar to the one that tests alcohol right away. If we have that and someone was dangerously operating a vehicle under the influence they should be in jail because that is very unsafe for those who are responsible adults.
helpingout–
I honestly believe that Agent and Polar are different people. You’ll find that neither of them have never and will never apologize for anything, regardless of when facts prove them wrong. It will simply never happen, because in their minds, they’re NEVER wrong.
Craig, on the other hand. tends to be more generally respectful and well thought-out with his responses. He will answer any question posed to him and tries to make others see where he’s coming from, rather than just repeating the same Limbaugh / Hannity / Coulter talking points.
sorry you are suffering from the disease known as mala prohibita The propaganda skewed by government mandates all pack of lies for over a 100 years, Please take some cannabis and cure yourselves.. as those lies equate to alcohol reasoning
Yikes. All these people saying “marijuana is harmless” and then trying to discredit the story that states the obvious fact: people high on pot kill people.
Do in fact people high on pot kill people when driving? Or not?
Hello? Anyone with a straight, honest answer on a simple question?
Literally nobody said that, the quotation marks are a fabrication. This was explained in the comments prior to you jumping on board with the same mistake. You put quotes around words that cannot be quoted anywhere in the comments, and this statement was only implied by someone failing to properly state your side of the argument (Steve’s double negative suggests no impact, but at least he used the correct quote despite not understanding what it meant).
Sort of makes your question moot (well, all four questions, maybe a bit too aggressive?), since it was previously stated, with frequency by all sides, that it is not harmless. It makes it seem like you’re spoiling for a fight, which I guess seems to be most of us these days, when we’re not face to face with someone, but this target seemed too good to be true… and it was. If you want to lash out at me here be my guest, though ignoring accurate dissent is really the hot partisan tactic on these boards. Name calling is an option too, though I can’t recall that being your M.O. Either way, I won’t even respond because my intent isn’t to rile you up, just get it out of your system before you drive:
Driving angry is NOT harmless.
I misstated. Should have been that people are saying “marijuana is NOT harmless”. And then they go on to try to discredit this story with theories about pot replacing booze and the testing is faulty for pot users.
So now, why not answer the question? Do people high on pot kill people while driving?
Craig,
People high on pot DO kill people when driving. Happy now?
Has anyone said, or even implied, otherwise?
No one is saying driving under the influence of marijuana should be legal.
No one is saying that causing harm to others in any way under the influence of marijuana should be legal.
Nicely done.
Thank you.
yes Craig, it happens.
I’m not in favor of legalizing MJ beyond medical use (which is ok with me if heavily regulated).
However, if MJ IS going to be legal, and until they can objectively determine “when” someone smoked it and how high they are, there should be ZERO tolerance on the roads. They test positive while driving, throw the book at ’em. This is the way to keep from having lawyers muddying up the waters with “he tested positive but hasn’t smoked a joint for three days” and taking teeth out of zero tolerance laws.
Driving while impaired by any substance is irresponsible and dangerous. I don’t think anyone is disputing that here. It is also already illegal in every state, as far as I know.
We do need to come up with a reliable test for MJ impairment, as having trace amounts of MJ (medicinal or recreational) in one’s system does not automatically mean one is impaired.
We’ll get there. Local/State legalization is still relatively new, and MJ is still illegal at the Federal level. This will change, allowing accurate impairment tests to be developed, and then we can throw the book at people that decide to drive under the influence.
FIRST of all this test for cannabis is faults as any test used today test for metabolite known as THC COOH the active known component that impairs is know as delta 9 THC which there is no scientific test , no matter how any times you hear driver under influence of Cannabis and was tested they test for THC COOH and no level can produce any logical reasoning to impairment , so this study /results are faults or Lies
Massvocals
OH, by the way, CARS kill people so let’s make cars illegal right away, as you all know you as an indivisible person cannot always be trusted to control your death machine your CAR beside this cars kill more the 1/2 million people in US every year its really more then that so we must make cars illegal they also cause so much pollution that people get cancer so we must ban cars Please call your government rep and dump the car campaign as its HIGH time we FLY
Google “Carbofuran”. It is a pesticide that is banned in the United States. A quarter teaspoon of Carbofuran can kill a 300 pound bear.
Recent news reports estimate that more than half of all the black market marijuana grown in California is contaminated with Carbofuran. Why, you ask? It seems the pesticide is being brought up from Mexico to help grow marijuana (can you say “Cartels”?).
So much for legalization killing the black market.
Of course there is still a black market. It is still illegal in most of the states. Until it is legalized nationwide, there will be black markets.
Yes, black markets will likely continue to exist even if it is legalized, but the influence will be significantly reduced. Only those willing to take a chance of obtaining tainted product, ill go to the black markets. Most will prefer to obtain a well-regulated product for safety.
Craig — I take it from your post that if marijuana was properly regulated and tested before it was sold legally, that would alleviate your concerns about people ingesting Carbofuran?
My point is the same as before: we were sold Legalization on lies. And no one is taking responsibility for the lies. Lies that legalization would:
1. Kill the black market.
2. Raise enormous tax dollars (now estimated to be half that promised).
3. Control potency.
4. Keep marijuana away from kids.
5. Hurt the Cartels.
And now the Cartels are poisoning potheads. So pot fans can damage their brains AND their bodies at the same time.
Anyone care to take responsibility? (And no one talked about more dead on the roads at all.)
Craig–my personal opinion? The states saw the potential tax $$$ first. That’s usually how it works.
It’s like when Atlantic City legalized gambling…They envisioned a Las Vegas on the East Coast, one that would pump millions of dollars into the state economy. For a few years, it was. Ever gone there? Hint: don’t.
Soooo …. if marijuana was properly regulated and tested before it was sold legally, would that alleviate your concerns about people ingesting Carbofuran?
As for your other points: I have never argued any of those points, so I have nothing to take responsibility for. That said:
1 – Black markets currently exist for legal products (think over the counter pain medication), so legalization of any drug isn’t going to be any different than it currently is.
2 – going to need to see some actual data from you that it’s “half as much as was promised”, but I agree revenue from taxes is not as much as originally estimated
3 – legalization WILL control potency of LEGAL sales of marijuana. everything has to be tested, approved and appropriately labeled before it can be sold.
4 – Don’t see how that’s possible. I mean, kids can still get their hands on firearms and alcohol and those are illegal up to a certain age. Why would marijuana be any different
5 – going to need to see some actual data from you on that point
Sorry … edit …
1 – Black markets currently exist for legal products (think *doctor prescribed* pain medication)
I said Google “Carbofuran”. Many news articles on it, so yes, pot heads are poisoning brain and body.
Also, as I have said many times – and what is obvious – is that pot is unlike alcohol or firearms. It is easy to grow pot in your garage and sell it by under pricing the legal, high tax stuff sold by regular, leagal marijuana businesses that have high overhead (esp. in California).
It is NOT easy to make alcohol – or guns for that matter. This point was so obvious that I couldn’t believe the “end of the black market” lies were believed by anyone with a brain.
I know what you said – I was asking what you THOUGHT. You don’t think it’s easy to make your own alcohol? Where have you been the past 10+ years??
Craig,
There is no way to know if these will or won’t be realized until marijuana is legalized nationally. Until then, it is all speculation on what the long-term effects will be.
Fair enough?
“We don’t know what marijuana will do. So let’s legalize it nationally.”
Yikes. Not sure about your logic.
We DO know: the Black Market is thriving. Marijuana is being sold all over the country out of 3 states (CA, CO, WA), because the cartels are now protected from serious prosecution for growing pot.
Deaths from car accidents due to stoned drivers are increasing.
Tax receipts are far lower than projected, largely due to a thriving black market that can forever underprice the legal stuff and also offer more potent alternatives than the legally controlled stuff.
We do know that MJ doubles your chances of mental illness; just statistics my friend. We also know if damages the IQ of young people who smoke regularly.
We also know that use by African Americans is very high, as high as 70% of all adults. THAT ought to help make blacks equal in America, no?
Legalize nationally? Sure! What could go wrong?
Craig, don’t pay any attention to the double Obama voter. Claims he is Independent as well. Wow, no common sense at all.
A purple wave is coming. People are growing more and more tired of the crap from the right and left and their infringement upon our rights.