“I would say that a majority of people exonerated do not have strong liability claims because of these immunities. If qualified immunity is weakened for police officers, it follows that more liability claims will be brought,” Brown said.
If qualified immunity is weakened for police officers, you won’t have police officers, which is exactly what the left wants.
That will happen just like how we were told Obama was going to take away everyone’s guns if he got elected. It’s a bad sign for you if fear mongering is the only tool you have to support your argument.
Police Chief – Sorry Officer Friendly, you have been accused of using excessive force when you shot and killed that unarmed black man. I’m going to need your badge and Scottie Cameron while you take leave until the investigation is complete.
There should be justice for people who are wrongfully arrested, subjected to police brutality, wrongfully convicted and wrongfully imprisoned. That should include payment of damages, especially when the law enforcement agency has a clear and demonstrated pattern of discriminatory practices. There are 2 justice systems in this country – one for whites and one for BIPOC. Qualified Immunity needs to be abolished.
Totally agree. I have many cop friends from different cities and they all agree they’re going to stay on regardless of QI because (1) they have no reason to hid behind QI, (2) they hope it will rid the department of bad apples and (3) they’re actually trying to Serve & Protect the public as a whole.
Are they racist towards PoC? Maybe. I don’t experience it because I’m white so I don’t really know for sure, but they’re saying all the right things as if they care about doing a good job and less worried about how they can protect their own rear-ends in a lawsuit.
I’m told they’re more than happy to keep their body cameras on explicitly for defending their actions if they’re sued, so there’s no need to hide behind QI.
Yes, anecdotal evidence, I know, but it’s not like anyone here can speak for all the cops nationwide.
I’m a black insurance professional living in a 95% white community. I grew up in an area where my mother and half brother were the only white peeople within probably a 2 mile radius. I have seen the police react to black people in two very different kinds of communities, and in my personal experience yes, the police are very prejudiced against black people. It happens EVERY single day. I have been pulled over and delayed for 30 minutes for going 3 miles over the speed limit. I’ve had three cop cars pull me over for walking home at 11pm. I’ve seen friends abused and mistreated.
On the reverse, my older half-brother who is white has been mostly undisturbed. He’s been pulled over on his way from selling marijuana to people in a state where it was very illegal, explained to the officer that he had gone to the hood to buy a little bit of pot and apologized and been let go.
We know the facts show the police are a prejudiced agency. We know they pull over, harass and kill black people at a higher rate than white people. We know the earliest police forces existed to hunt runaway slaves. We know that up until the civil rights movement the police were setting attack dogs and water hoses on black people. The racist feelings held by the police did NOT change as soon as the civil rights movement happened. Those people kept their jobs. Those people trained the people who train our current police officers.
The people arguing to keep Qualified Immunity know exactly what they’re doing. They don’t want black people treated equally, because capitalism needs someone incarcerated. We need the slave labor provided by our prison system and black people are an easy source.
We also know that police unions have threatened to stop arresting people and actually done it. The New York police union when confronted with a change had a blue flu situation a few years back. The arrest numbers dropped. But you know what didn’t happen? Crime didn’t overwhelmingly increase.
Police are useful for certain situations, yes. Police pulling people over for traffic tickets? We can have cameras do that more efficiently. Police showing up to deal with drug users or domestic disturbances? Social workers and addiction treatment work better.
We don’t need a racist militarized police force. The people who are arguing for continuing the system know that.
You had me all the way up to the 2nd to last paragraph.
“Police pulling people over for traffic tickets? We can have cameras do that more efficiently.” Totally disagree. Citizens have a right to face their accuser in court, and we can’t ask pictures questions.
How does the camera know I was driving my car when it ran a red light and it wasn’t my brother? If the light turned red when I crossed the stop line, but I backed up and didn’t enter the intersection, I’ll get a red light ticket and can’t prove what happened after the photo was taken.
I 100% agree with everything else you wrote. I don’t expect to get into a camera debate since that’s slightly off topic (although I will if you want :), but I’ve been railing against traffic cameras for years and had to post a response to stay consistent.
Over 100 people a year are killed by police in routine traffic stops. These deaths, like these people being pulled over, disproportionately affects black people (1 in 3). The low number of people that actually contest traffic tickets aren’t worth these deaths. Additionally, you know these cameras are… cameras, right? They’re capable of capturing front and back.
People shouldn’t die so you can be more cavalier with who you loan your car to dude.
Think about what you’re arguing sometimes man. I’ve gotten into this with you before, you definitely can nitpick something and end up making a case for the other side. Some of us don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing, we just want to not fear for our lives.
You know me better then to think I’m saying I’d rather see continued death and systemic racism so I can loan my car out without worrying about getting a ticket.
Can’t we try to effect the change we both think needs to happen without removing our rights to confront and cross-examine the prosecution’s witnesses?
I do, but I don’t think arguing against the small point of there being better options for dealing with traffic tickets than the police is super relevant to the conversation occurring on this article.
September 3, 2020 at 11:17 am
Rosenblatt says:
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Right, it’s not “super relevant” … that’s why I said it was a little off-topic in my first reply and I didn’t expect to get into a debate. It’s also why I said multiple times I agreed with everything else you wrote.
But you initially gave two examples where you thought the police were not useful and I disagreed with you on one of them because it violates the 6th Amendment.
It’s an argument I’ve made on here for years and something I think is important … it’s not AS important as civil rights, systemic racism, income inequality, etc, but it’s relevant to those issues and important none the less.
September 3, 2020 at 1:43 pm
SWFL Agent says:
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I’m pretty sure that most police officers don’t want to be called out to the scene of a domestic disturbance but I don’t know how a victim, especially one with a gun to their head, would feel about having a social worker show-up instead.
Social workers have to deal with this kind of thing all the time, that’s why they’re trained in de-escalation. Do you think social workers right now don’t have guns pointed at them? Often by a person who needs their medication adjusted, or maybe wasn’t able to afford their medication, or maybe was locked out of their home for five days and then had a bad episode?
They do the job anyway. They get attacked sometimes unfortunately, but does anyone die at the end of the day? No. They keep doing their job because they actually care. It is criminal how much we underpay social workers in this country despite the good, thankless work they are doing. Instead of funding the police to play military dress up and attack US citizens, we should be putting more funding in social workers’ hands.
I went back and found the post a social worker friend of mine made. She said they may get attacked, but everyone lives because wee have trauma informed care, safe utilization of psychiatric restraint techniques which prohibit ALL horizontal (side-lying) restraint, padded blocking shields to allow someone to work out their energy in a safe way or enough to let staff get close enough to disarm, medically supervised use of medication for de-escalation, AND any time any kind of restraint is used at ALL then the situation is taken to a review board so they can learn, grow and retrain when necessary.
When have you ever heard of the police even considering re-training unless a riot had occurred because of the police department in that city killing unarmed black people MULTIPLE times?
Actually, that is not what he said. He made no reference to black people. And he was talking about pressure and how it changes behavior.
Have you ever been confronted by someone who intended to hurt you? With a gun? I have. It changes your heart rate. THAT is the point.
Do you lie in church? To your clients? Mr. Christian?
Or are you just perpetually incapable of understanding analogies?
September 9, 2020 at 12:56 pm
Jon says:
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You republicans love to expand upon the things your fearless leader has said huh? Oh he MEANT this or that. Well what he said was
“They choke just like in a golf tournament. They miss a 3-foot putt.”
No pontificating about pressure and changing behavior. He IN HIS OWN WORDS compared shooting a man seven times in the back to missing a 3-foot putt. You can try and lie and deflect, but that’s what he actually said.
Keep deflecting and being dishonest, you can’t change the facts. We all know exactly what he said, and you’re lying, Craig.
September 10, 2020 at 2:08 pm
Tracey B. says:
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Amen! If I’m being attacked I need the police. Don’t send me a social worker!!
Spoken like someone who’s never been attacked and had to call the police. Ever tried to report a rape in this country? The police aren’t going to help. Ever tried to report an attack while being black in this country? The police might arrest you. Open your eyes to the experiences of others.
“I would say that a majority of people exonerated do not have strong liability claims because of these immunities. If qualified immunity is weakened for police officers, it follows that more liability claims will be brought,” Brown said.
If qualified immunity is weakened for police officers, you won’t have police officers, which is exactly what the left wants.
MOLON LABE
That will happen just like how we were told Obama was going to take away everyone’s guns if he got elected. It’s a bad sign for you if fear mongering is the only tool you have to support your argument.
Rosen- it’s called logic. You should find some.
Police Chief – Sorry Officer Friendly, you have been accused of using excessive force when you shot and killed that unarmed black man. I’m going to need your badge and Scottie Cameron while you take leave until the investigation is complete.
There should be justice for people who are wrongfully arrested, subjected to police brutality, wrongfully convicted and wrongfully imprisoned. That should include payment of damages, especially when the law enforcement agency has a clear and demonstrated pattern of discriminatory practices. There are 2 justice systems in this country – one for whites and one for BIPOC. Qualified Immunity needs to be abolished.
Totally agree. I have many cop friends from different cities and they all agree they’re going to stay on regardless of QI because (1) they have no reason to hid behind QI, (2) they hope it will rid the department of bad apples and (3) they’re actually trying to Serve & Protect the public as a whole.
Are they racist towards PoC? Maybe. I don’t experience it because I’m white so I don’t really know for sure, but they’re saying all the right things as if they care about doing a good job and less worried about how they can protect their own rear-ends in a lawsuit.
I’m told they’re more than happy to keep their body cameras on explicitly for defending their actions if they’re sued, so there’s no need to hide behind QI.
Yes, anecdotal evidence, I know, but it’s not like anyone here can speak for all the cops nationwide.
I’m a black insurance professional living in a 95% white community. I grew up in an area where my mother and half brother were the only white peeople within probably a 2 mile radius. I have seen the police react to black people in two very different kinds of communities, and in my personal experience yes, the police are very prejudiced against black people. It happens EVERY single day. I have been pulled over and delayed for 30 minutes for going 3 miles over the speed limit. I’ve had three cop cars pull me over for walking home at 11pm. I’ve seen friends abused and mistreated.
On the reverse, my older half-brother who is white has been mostly undisturbed. He’s been pulled over on his way from selling marijuana to people in a state where it was very illegal, explained to the officer that he had gone to the hood to buy a little bit of pot and apologized and been let go.
We know the facts show the police are a prejudiced agency. We know they pull over, harass and kill black people at a higher rate than white people. We know the earliest police forces existed to hunt runaway slaves. We know that up until the civil rights movement the police were setting attack dogs and water hoses on black people. The racist feelings held by the police did NOT change as soon as the civil rights movement happened. Those people kept their jobs. Those people trained the people who train our current police officers.
The people arguing to keep Qualified Immunity know exactly what they’re doing. They don’t want black people treated equally, because capitalism needs someone incarcerated. We need the slave labor provided by our prison system and black people are an easy source.
We also know that police unions have threatened to stop arresting people and actually done it. The New York police union when confronted with a change had a blue flu situation a few years back. The arrest numbers dropped. But you know what didn’t happen? Crime didn’t overwhelmingly increase.
Police are useful for certain situations, yes. Police pulling people over for traffic tickets? We can have cameras do that more efficiently. Police showing up to deal with drug users or domestic disturbances? Social workers and addiction treatment work better.
We don’t need a racist militarized police force. The people who are arguing for continuing the system know that.
You had me all the way up to the 2nd to last paragraph.
“Police pulling people over for traffic tickets? We can have cameras do that more efficiently.” Totally disagree. Citizens have a right to face their accuser in court, and we can’t ask pictures questions.
How does the camera know I was driving my car when it ran a red light and it wasn’t my brother? If the light turned red when I crossed the stop line, but I backed up and didn’t enter the intersection, I’ll get a red light ticket and can’t prove what happened after the photo was taken.
I 100% agree with everything else you wrote. I don’t expect to get into a camera debate since that’s slightly off topic (although I will if you want :), but I’ve been railing against traffic cameras for years and had to post a response to stay consistent.
Over 100 people a year are killed by police in routine traffic stops. These deaths, like these people being pulled over, disproportionately affects black people (1 in 3). The low number of people that actually contest traffic tickets aren’t worth these deaths. Additionally, you know these cameras are… cameras, right? They’re capable of capturing front and back.
People shouldn’t die so you can be more cavalier with who you loan your car to dude.
Think about what you’re arguing sometimes man. I’ve gotten into this with you before, you definitely can nitpick something and end up making a case for the other side. Some of us don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing, we just want to not fear for our lives.
You know me better then to think I’m saying I’d rather see continued death and systemic racism so I can loan my car out without worrying about getting a ticket.
Can’t we try to effect the change we both think needs to happen without removing our rights to confront and cross-examine the prosecution’s witnesses?
I do, but I don’t think arguing against the small point of there being better options for dealing with traffic tickets than the police is super relevant to the conversation occurring on this article.
Right, it’s not “super relevant” … that’s why I said it was a little off-topic in my first reply and I didn’t expect to get into a debate. It’s also why I said multiple times I agreed with everything else you wrote.
But you initially gave two examples where you thought the police were not useful and I disagreed with you on one of them because it violates the 6th Amendment.
It’s an argument I’ve made on here for years and something I think is important … it’s not AS important as civil rights, systemic racism, income inequality, etc, but it’s relevant to those issues and important none the less.
I’m pretty sure that most police officers don’t want to be called out to the scene of a domestic disturbance but I don’t know how a victim, especially one with a gun to their head, would feel about having a social worker show-up instead.
Social workers have to deal with this kind of thing all the time, that’s why they’re trained in de-escalation. Do you think social workers right now don’t have guns pointed at them? Often by a person who needs their medication adjusted, or maybe wasn’t able to afford their medication, or maybe was locked out of their home for five days and then had a bad episode?
They do the job anyway. They get attacked sometimes unfortunately, but does anyone die at the end of the day? No. They keep doing their job because they actually care. It is criminal how much we underpay social workers in this country despite the good, thankless work they are doing. Instead of funding the police to play military dress up and attack US citizens, we should be putting more funding in social workers’ hands.
I went back and found the post a social worker friend of mine made. She said they may get attacked, but everyone lives because wee have trauma informed care, safe utilization of psychiatric restraint techniques which prohibit ALL horizontal (side-lying) restraint, padded blocking shields to allow someone to work out their energy in a safe way or enough to let staff get close enough to disarm, medically supervised use of medication for de-escalation, AND any time any kind of restraint is used at ALL then the situation is taken to a review board so they can learn, grow and retrain when necessary.
When have you ever heard of the police even considering re-training unless a riot had occurred because of the police department in that city killing unarmed black people MULTIPLE times?
It’s just like putting, Jon, you heard the president. Killing unarmed black people is just like missing a putt, according to Tramp.
Actually, that is not what he said. He made no reference to black people. And he was talking about pressure and how it changes behavior.
Have you ever been confronted by someone who intended to hurt you? With a gun? I have. It changes your heart rate. THAT is the point.
Do you lie in church? To your clients? Mr. Christian?
Or are you just perpetually incapable of understanding analogies?
You republicans love to expand upon the things your fearless leader has said huh? Oh he MEANT this or that. Well what he said was
“They choke just like in a golf tournament. They miss a 3-foot putt.”
No pontificating about pressure and changing behavior. He IN HIS OWN WORDS compared shooting a man seven times in the back to missing a 3-foot putt. You can try and lie and deflect, but that’s what he actually said.
Keep deflecting and being dishonest, you can’t change the facts. We all know exactly what he said, and you’re lying, Craig.
Amen! If I’m being attacked I need the police. Don’t send me a social worker!!
Spoken like someone who’s never been attacked and had to call the police. Ever tried to report a rape in this country? The police aren’t going to help. Ever tried to report an attack while being black in this country? The police might arrest you. Open your eyes to the experiences of others.