It’s amazing to me that we can put 3 men in jail who are arguing for their religious rights, yet we accept Muslim worship in the streets that blocks traffic (with no orange triangles), we accept protesters like Occupy Podunk who block traffic and takeover public parks, we accept other violations for acts not legal and dole out community service for a few hours, all of which is worst than drving a horse and buggy on the side of the road!
I’ve had a lot more close calls with Amish buggies than Muslim street-worshippers and Occupy protesters. Not putting anything reflective on a large black object moving down a public street at night is much more dangerous than the things you mentioned, Chester.
This isn’t just an “Amish thing”, it has to do with safety on the roadway..PUBLIC roadways. It’s fine if the Amish want to put *their* safety in God’s hands, but what about the other people driving on the road who don’t see them and hit their buggy? Them not displaying the orange triangle could be the factor responsible for causing injuries or death to other people, and for that, yeah, fine them AND put them in jail. If they don’t want to live by the state laws then they shouldn’t be allowed to use the state’s roadways!
I totally agree with Susan. This is a public safety concern. I grew up in a rural area of NY that had a large Amish community and if a vehicle hit a buggy it would not only injure or kill the Amish person and their horse but also injure the driver of the vehicle. The orange triangle is a safety precaution to save lives not infringe upon religious beliefs.
I agree with susan. Their refusal directly impacts the safety of others and therefore should be enforced. If the amish care not for the safety and well being of the people they share the road with then they should stay off those roads!
Now Susan, I thought I read somewhere that one of the accidents the courts refer to was where a man hit a buggy at night. The individual (s) in the buggy were injured. Is that the type of incident you are referring to?
Oh – wait – I forgot to mention that the guy was DUI!
They cannot put the orange reflectors on their buggy. However, in some areas of the country they will put the grey reflective tape. But here they want the orange reflectors.
So it is not the Amish saying we absolutely will not worry about anyone’s safety. It is the court saying that you do it our way or leave.
Why does it always seem that religion freedom and freedom of expression and speach apply to everyone EXCEPT the people who (yes, I am going to use the J word) believe in Jesus?
It’s always an SUV, and they’re almost always speeding, and many times–completely drunk.
Hate to make this comparison, but it’s time–the Amish are to the country like gay people are to suburban neighborhoods–a true benefit, increasing the value of every area they live in…it’s part of America that’s more valuable than our mineral rights expansion areas…so why are we suddenly so consumed and idle-minded enough with forcing them to comply with something so obviously against their personal beliefs?
They would be so reasonable, agreeable, and even compliant if we’d just let them talk–and it should have happened already without the inevitable publicity-seeking attorney (I mean, what segment of society hasn’t been doggedly pursued by a wrongful injury lawyer anyway?).
I’m ashamed to live here right now–born and raised here, and now we’re ignorantly, impatiently, and wrongfully subjecting these people to our sectarian society…worst of all, I sincerely believe this is all an indirect method to force taxes upon them…and my belief about THAT, again, is that WE should be paying THEM for preserving our finest rural areas, and their carriages barely weigh enough to be able to effectively assess any kind of tax for that purpose…ever.
We’re ridiculous here in KY–and I’ll always be ashamed nobody cared to look at this realistically, much less with any introspection at all. We just don’t have that trait.
I am all for the 1st Amendment, and I enjoyed the times we brought the kids to Lancaster County PA. I’ve seen battery-operated lights on some buggies, presumably as night-time warning devices for other road occupants.
I’ve also seen those beautiful geometric circular “good luck” signs on the sides of some buildings – and certainly inside MANY of the stores, for sale to tourists. Why not just issue some with reflective paint and hang them on the back of the wagons? Good luck, and safety, all in one.
I thought in an earlier article on this subject the Amish volunteered to use brown reflectors as it’s the bright color which is offensive to them. The brown reflects adequately. Kentucky should work with these people – not jail them.
I have a pony bought from an Amish family in KY. I take my 4 year old daughter for drives on county road in Indiana. I have every right to be on the road, but I’m not going to go out without an SMV sign on the back of our cart – my life and my daughter’s life is too precious. God gave people brains for a reason and for the Amish to refuse to use them and refuse to put SMV signs on their buggies is ridiculous. Sometimes religion blinds people from using their common sense. Maybe jailing people for not using SMV signs is harsh, but if I got a citation for not having working turn signals on my car, then I should pay the consequence. If I refuse to pay the fine, they will probably suspend my license until the fine is paid. They can’t do this to an Amish driver. Those horses and buggies without SMV signs should not be on the road regardless of how they interpret the bible.
you know, the problem i see, is changing lanes or making turns w/o turn signals… we see cops next to us that see this incident, but don’t give the person a ticket… so why are we making a big deal of this triangle? did they cause an accident? if not, they should be a solution to help resolve the situation. you could make more money if you catch those that forget turn signals, than the Amish… who are you hurting? the Amish are hard working folks doing it the hard way and not lazy folks…
They wanna move outta state? Don’t let me stop ’em! There have been enough deaths on our highways with these death trap buggies, that simply don’t belong on the roads for which these Amish do not pay one penny for the use thereof (since they obviously do not buy gasoline on whose state tax pays for the roads). In my mind, these Amish have NO right to use the paved roads.
Is this all these people have to do, is harrass Amish people? Maybe I should move to the Nirvana KY state. Or maybe this is a sign I shouldn’t be living there….
whatever happened to driving defensively and knowing your surroundings? I can honestly see both sides of the coin here. Where do you draw the line? We have come to be the United States of I’m offended and hinge on our amendments and for every case they are interpretted differently. It’s crazy. If there is a happy medium that can meet the safety requirements–use it. But the same should also apply to everyone on the road from Bikers, Buggy drivers and even pedestrians. I’m sure I’m like everyone else and love it when people dress all in black without an ounce of color and walk around or run out into the streets at night. The courts have to take into consideration safety for all and if it offends a few–so be it. If the unoffensive brown reflective tape works just as well as the orange triangles–then use it.
First, no right is absolute. Freedom speech for example is not absolute. You can not slander people. The freedom for religion is not absolute because if your religious practice affects the safety of others then the government may curb those rights. I beleive this case warrants a curb in those rights.
Second, this has nothing to do with freedom of religion in my opinion. If you want to use the highways, you need to obey the laws that intended to protect others. No one is making them use the highways so it is they need to make the choice.
Third, the penalty for willfully disobeying the law is different than unknowingly breaking the law. So if you intend to stick your nose up at the law, those are the consequences. I agree with the judge.
Finally,I think the person who mentioned trying to find a technical solution is brilliant (no pun intended). There are special paints that have reflective mirrors in them that appear flat unless light is shown upon them.
It’s amazing to me that we can put 3 men in jail who are arguing for their religious rights, yet we accept Muslim worship in the streets that blocks traffic (with no orange triangles), we accept protesters like Occupy Podunk who block traffic and takeover public parks, we accept other violations for acts not legal and dole out community service for a few hours, all of which is worst than drving a horse and buggy on the side of the road!
I’ve had a lot more close calls with Amish buggies than Muslim street-worshippers and Occupy protesters. Not putting anything reflective on a large black object moving down a public street at night is much more dangerous than the things you mentioned, Chester.
This isn’t just an “Amish thing”, it has to do with safety on the roadway..PUBLIC roadways. It’s fine if the Amish want to put *their* safety in God’s hands, but what about the other people driving on the road who don’t see them and hit their buggy? Them not displaying the orange triangle could be the factor responsible for causing injuries or death to other people, and for that, yeah, fine them AND put them in jail. If they don’t want to live by the state laws then they shouldn’t be allowed to use the state’s roadways!
I totally agree with Susan. This is a public safety concern. I grew up in a rural area of NY that had a large Amish community and if a vehicle hit a buggy it would not only injure or kill the Amish person and their horse but also injure the driver of the vehicle. The orange triangle is a safety precaution to save lives not infringe upon religious beliefs.
I agree with susan. Their refusal directly impacts the safety of others and therefore should be enforced. If the amish care not for the safety and well being of the people they share the road with then they should stay off those roads!
Now Susan, I thought I read somewhere that one of the accidents the courts refer to was where a man hit a buggy at night. The individual (s) in the buggy were injured. Is that the type of incident you are referring to?
Oh – wait – I forgot to mention that the guy was DUI!
They cannot put the orange reflectors on their buggy. However, in some areas of the country they will put the grey reflective tape. But here they want the orange reflectors.
So it is not the Amish saying we absolutely will not worry about anyone’s safety. It is the court saying that you do it our way or leave.
Why does it always seem that religion freedom and freedom of expression and speach apply to everyone EXCEPT the people who (yes, I am going to use the J word) believe in Jesus?
It’s always an SUV, and they’re almost always speeding, and many times–completely drunk.
Hate to make this comparison, but it’s time–the Amish are to the country like gay people are to suburban neighborhoods–a true benefit, increasing the value of every area they live in…it’s part of America that’s more valuable than our mineral rights expansion areas…so why are we suddenly so consumed and idle-minded enough with forcing them to comply with something so obviously against their personal beliefs?
They would be so reasonable, agreeable, and even compliant if we’d just let them talk–and it should have happened already without the inevitable publicity-seeking attorney (I mean, what segment of society hasn’t been doggedly pursued by a wrongful injury lawyer anyway?).
I’m ashamed to live here right now–born and raised here, and now we’re ignorantly, impatiently, and wrongfully subjecting these people to our sectarian society…worst of all, I sincerely believe this is all an indirect method to force taxes upon them…and my belief about THAT, again, is that WE should be paying THEM for preserving our finest rural areas, and their carriages barely weigh enough to be able to effectively assess any kind of tax for that purpose…ever.
We’re ridiculous here in KY–and I’ll always be ashamed nobody cared to look at this realistically, much less with any introspection at all. We just don’t have that trait.
I am all for the 1st Amendment, and I enjoyed the times we brought the kids to Lancaster County PA. I’ve seen battery-operated lights on some buggies, presumably as night-time warning devices for other road occupants.
I’ve also seen those beautiful geometric circular “good luck” signs on the sides of some buildings – and certainly inside MANY of the stores, for sale to tourists. Why not just issue some with reflective paint and hang them on the back of the wagons? Good luck, and safety, all in one.
I thought in an earlier article on this subject the Amish volunteered to use brown reflectors as it’s the bright color which is offensive to them. The brown reflects adequately. Kentucky should work with these people – not jail them.
I have a pony bought from an Amish family in KY. I take my 4 year old daughter for drives on county road in Indiana. I have every right to be on the road, but I’m not going to go out without an SMV sign on the back of our cart – my life and my daughter’s life is too precious. God gave people brains for a reason and for the Amish to refuse to use them and refuse to put SMV signs on their buggies is ridiculous. Sometimes religion blinds people from using their common sense. Maybe jailing people for not using SMV signs is harsh, but if I got a citation for not having working turn signals on my car, then I should pay the consequence. If I refuse to pay the fine, they will probably suspend my license until the fine is paid. They can’t do this to an Amish driver. Those horses and buggies without SMV signs should not be on the road regardless of how they interpret the bible.
you know, the problem i see, is changing lanes or making turns w/o turn signals… we see cops next to us that see this incident, but don’t give the person a ticket… so why are we making a big deal of this triangle? did they cause an accident? if not, they should be a solution to help resolve the situation. you could make more money if you catch those that forget turn signals, than the Amish… who are you hurting? the Amish are hard working folks doing it the hard way and not lazy folks…
They wanna move outta state? Don’t let me stop ’em! There have been enough deaths on our highways with these death trap buggies, that simply don’t belong on the roads for which these Amish do not pay one penny for the use thereof (since they obviously do not buy gasoline on whose state tax pays for the roads). In my mind, these Amish have NO right to use the paved roads.
I agree. The same should go for bicycles as they also pay no gas tax. You must agree with the logic you use.
Is this all these people have to do, is harrass Amish people? Maybe I should move to the Nirvana KY state. Or maybe this is a sign I shouldn’t be living there….
whatever happened to driving defensively and knowing your surroundings? I can honestly see both sides of the coin here. Where do you draw the line? We have come to be the United States of I’m offended and hinge on our amendments and for every case they are interpretted differently. It’s crazy. If there is a happy medium that can meet the safety requirements–use it. But the same should also apply to everyone on the road from Bikers, Buggy drivers and even pedestrians. I’m sure I’m like everyone else and love it when people dress all in black without an ounce of color and walk around or run out into the streets at night. The courts have to take into consideration safety for all and if it offends a few–so be it. If the unoffensive brown reflective tape works just as well as the orange triangles–then use it.
There has been a victory for common sense, reflective tape may be allowed.
First, no right is absolute. Freedom speech for example is not absolute. You can not slander people. The freedom for religion is not absolute because if your religious practice affects the safety of others then the government may curb those rights. I beleive this case warrants a curb in those rights.
Second, this has nothing to do with freedom of religion in my opinion. If you want to use the highways, you need to obey the laws that intended to protect others. No one is making them use the highways so it is they need to make the choice.
Third, the penalty for willfully disobeying the law is different than unknowingly breaking the law. So if you intend to stick your nose up at the law, those are the consequences. I agree with the judge.
Finally,I think the person who mentioned trying to find a technical solution is brilliant (no pun intended). There are special paints that have reflective mirrors in them that appear flat unless light is shown upon them.