The motorcycles listed as mostly likely to be involved in a crash are the most technologically advanced machines based on the true racing counterparts capable of speeds in excess of 150 mph. The reason they are the most likely to be involved in a crash is because a teenager that thinks he is superman jumps on one and rides it beyond HIS limits, not the machines limits which far exceed his own. Does a 45 yr old with 25 years experience on a Goldwing have the same likelihood to be involved in an accident on one of these rockets then an 17 yr old that has never driven one?
Yeah, but a 45 year old with years of experience who drives a Goldwing touring bike is just not too likely to suddenly develop a craving for a crotch rocket. Performance vehicles always cost more, both because of the machines’ inherent capabilities and dangers, and because of the limits of ANY driver’s abilities to control them – more vehicle takes ALOT more handling and savvy, and you can’t insure based on intelligence, so we all pay more.
I agree – it’s usually the operator, not the machine. How many accidents are due to, say, a siezed motor or frozen brakes? How many are due to riding beyond the rider’s skill level or just plain being boneheaded? And boneheaded isn’t restricted to “young and overflowing with testosterone” – I watched a guy blow by me with no helmet, no jacket, gloves or boots, just a balding head (from age – the remnants were grey), a t-shirt, shorts, and sneakers. And, lest we forget, boneheaded isn’t restricted to two wheels. I had to pull over to escape a dweeb in a Dodge Ram this afternoon. :(
It’s all about the relationship between (1) high performance and high tech machinery, (2) skill and maturity of the operator, (3) training and proficiency, (4) safety equipment and, of course, (5) some luck. I flew high performance jets and I have ridden high performance motorcycles. It never ceases to amaze me, the difference in the above factors, which relate to accidents. In fact, I see automobiles as “high tech” equipment and I look at the diversity of drivers on the roads and am amazed there are no more tragic crashes than there are.
Statistically accurate, I have no doubt, however more likely the crashing is a factor of operator, age, experience and education. Theft is influenced by economic factors, again experienced and educated owner/riders will know to lock down and garage their rides. They are also less likely to leave their rides in “risky” locations.
Rich
As a rider with 30 years of experience it amazes me that a kid with a motorcycle learner’s permit can walk into a motorcycle shop, point to the latest 1200cc race-bike-with-street-legal-rating, say “I want that”, and have a dealer actually sell him one, toss him the key and say “Y’all be careful now”. First bike, something capable of nudging 200 MPH? First gear easily exceeding 60 mph in a heartbeat? No wonder they crash. And, lots of them die.
It does not suprise me that these “crotch-rockets” are the most crashed motorcycles, that the insurance is the highest, and that these things are stolen more than anything else. The industy advertising is shameless promotion of speed, speed, speed. These are testosterone strokers, nothing else. I took a GSX out for a spin, hit 150 mph on the on-ramp to the highway, and decided that it really had no purpose in my life. Kids, wife, and awareness of mortality won out over advertising numbers on a web site. Now, if I only had daily access to a race track…..no SUV’s to dodge. :)
What the motorcycle industry needs is a concience. (“Hey Dad, it’s only a 600cc bike” , never mentioning that Pops is about to put his kid on a bike capable of 140MPH!!) And maybe the riding community needs to think about classes of licenses to allow new riders to “grow into” these rocket bikes. Being a conservative I cringe when I suggest these things, but the industry needs to be given a dope-slap to save our kids lives! They are only doing what the market demands, yet somebody, anybody, needs to get things under control. Enough is enough.
WEBB – A Cassville man admitted Tuesday that he reached a speed of 162 mph while riding his motorcycle this weekend on Route 28.
Jeremiah Castello, 22, pleaded guilty to speeding, reckless driving and other traffic violations Tuesday in Town Court, then apologized for what he did, court officials said. Castello’s charges were not reduced, court officials said, and he paid more than $500 in fines and will lose his driver’s license for at least six months.
Castello was initially clocked at 88 mph by state police Sunday afternoon before reaching 162 mph moments later. Troopers pursued Castello north on Route 28 for several minutes before traffic forced him to stop near Thendara.
I agree with you about needing to have some kind of controls and limits, but, don’t you think it starts with the parents first???!!!!!! Stop blaming a booming industry, we as parents (myself a parent of two) have to teach these would be riders at an early enough age to respect these very capable machines. NO way would I let one of my kids jump on any of the current race spec bikes without first learning and knowing how to ride properly. After that its up to them and hope that we did a good enough job as parents to educate them to make the right decision. It is not someone elses responsibility whether it be morally or financially to control the motorcycling industry
Well, as a dues-paying conservative, I tend to lean in the direction of your arguments, philosophically speaking.
HOWEVER, the motorycle industry is a little different than , say, the couch pillow business. These motorcycles are capable of almost four times the national speed limit. And, while YOU seem to be knowledgeable of the potential of these machines, I will bet you any amount of money that a majority of parents putting up the cash for these things have no idea of the attainable speeds. Perhaps if it was required to have a “do not remove under penalty of law” label, similiar to what is required of stuffing pillows with non-synthetic , potentially harmful allergens, stating that “this vehicle is capable of a speed of XXX mph” to give these ignorant parants at least a clue as to what they are putting their kids on. My problem is that the salesman will tell Pops “that big ol 1200cc is too much for a beginner, but this little 600RR is just a putt-putt”, damn well knowing that it is just a deadly as a loaded gun in the hands of a 16 year old. Somewhere between no regulation and total regulation lies a compromise that will allow an honest dealer to prosper while keeping the consumer AND the consumer’s parent advised as to the possible dangers associated with the purchase. There is no simple answer, most likely because the performance has increased much faster than the average non-enthusiast can imagine. My first Honda 450 had to work long and hard to reach “the ton”,where a modern “entry level” bike can reach that velocity just before the 3-4 shift. It is a different world, my friend.
Point well made and taken. My kids love riding their little 50s on the trails with me, but like you said, I learned by riding smaller displacement bikes working my way up to the larger race spec bikes. I feel quite confident that MY children as well as any other child that learns how to ride at an early age will not be a danger to society and themselves if later in the future they decide to get on one of these bikes. I agree with you and what you are saying…. It all comes down to education and respect. I have been riding for roughly 22 years with an AMA race license for 8 years. There are still times when my 1000cc bike makes me get a little nervous and the thought of putting an uneducated punk getting on one of these scares me as well…..
It’s darwinism at its finest. I say we hand these bikes out for free to anyone who wants one and in a short period of time, we can increase the average IQ of the available gene pool by 20 or 30 points.
I agree that the operator’s mentality, experience and maturity level all play an important role dealing with these speed machines. I happen to be a mid-thirty woman who loves the crotch-rockets. I did take the motorcycle course that introduces you to the world both good and bad of riding a moatorcycle. I practiced on side roads and parking lots. I started with a slower cruiser and worked my way up to a fast bike. I wore a helmet 100% of the time along with a leather jacket and gloves even in the dead of the summer here. I gained experience and knowledge about when and where it is safe(is it really ever?) to “open her up”. I rode in small numbers and with those more experienced. Yes, I went 155 down 95 on a straight away when there was no real traffic. Most important I never rode while I was hungry, angry, lonely or tired.
I drive a 2005 CBR1000RR, boy I am glad I opted not to go with GSXR1000!! I prefereed the Honda because the sexier look of the up the seat exhaust system, also my kids won’t burn there legs getting on or off the bike with the side exhaust. and now I know I am saving $$ on insurance!!
Risk takers are drawn to risky machines. The machine does not CAUSE bad riding… but high-performance machines make it startlingly easy to get in over your head quickly, with no good way out. Just ask Jason Williams, former Duke guard.
Graduated licensing in motorcycling would be an effective way to increase the distance between the inadequately skilled rider and a machine that demands extraordinary riding abilities.
The motorcycles listed as mostly likely to be involved in a crash are the most technologically advanced machines based on the true racing counterparts capable of speeds in excess of 150 mph. The reason they are the most likely to be involved in a crash is because a teenager that thinks he is superman jumps on one and rides it beyond HIS limits, not the machines limits which far exceed his own. Does a 45 yr old with 25 years experience on a Goldwing have the same likelihood to be involved in an accident on one of these rockets then an 17 yr old that has never driven one?
Yeah, but a 45 year old with years of experience who drives a Goldwing touring bike is just not too likely to suddenly develop a craving for a crotch rocket. Performance vehicles always cost more, both because of the machines’ inherent capabilities and dangers, and because of the limits of ANY driver’s abilities to control them – more vehicle takes ALOT more handling and savvy, and you can’t insure based on intelligence, so we all pay more.
I agree – it’s usually the operator, not the machine. How many accidents are due to, say, a siezed motor or frozen brakes? How many are due to riding beyond the rider’s skill level or just plain being boneheaded? And boneheaded isn’t restricted to “young and overflowing with testosterone” – I watched a guy blow by me with no helmet, no jacket, gloves or boots, just a balding head (from age – the remnants were grey), a t-shirt, shorts, and sneakers. And, lest we forget, boneheaded isn’t restricted to two wheels. I had to pull over to escape a dweeb in a Dodge Ram this afternoon. :(
It’s all about the relationship between (1) high performance and high tech machinery, (2) skill and maturity of the operator, (3) training and proficiency, (4) safety equipment and, of course, (5) some luck. I flew high performance jets and I have ridden high performance motorcycles. It never ceases to amaze me, the difference in the above factors, which relate to accidents. In fact, I see automobiles as “high tech” equipment and I look at the diversity of drivers on the roads and am amazed there are no more tragic crashes than there are.
Statistically accurate, I have no doubt, however more likely the crashing is a factor of operator, age, experience and education. Theft is influenced by economic factors, again experienced and educated owner/riders will know to lock down and garage their rides. They are also less likely to leave their rides in “risky” locations.
Rich
As a rider with 30 years of experience it amazes me that a kid with a motorcycle learner’s permit can walk into a motorcycle shop, point to the latest 1200cc race-bike-with-street-legal-rating, say “I want that”, and have a dealer actually sell him one, toss him the key and say “Y’all be careful now”. First bike, something capable of nudging 200 MPH? First gear easily exceeding 60 mph in a heartbeat? No wonder they crash. And, lots of them die.
It does not suprise me that these “crotch-rockets” are the most crashed motorcycles, that the insurance is the highest, and that these things are stolen more than anything else. The industy advertising is shameless promotion of speed, speed, speed. These are testosterone strokers, nothing else. I took a GSX out for a spin, hit 150 mph on the on-ramp to the highway, and decided that it really had no purpose in my life. Kids, wife, and awareness of mortality won out over advertising numbers on a web site. Now, if I only had daily access to a race track…..no SUV’s to dodge. :)
What the motorcycle industry needs is a concience. (“Hey Dad, it’s only a 600cc bike” , never mentioning that Pops is about to put his kid on a bike capable of 140MPH!!) And maybe the riding community needs to think about classes of licenses to allow new riders to “grow into” these rocket bikes. Being a conservative I cringe when I suggest these things, but the industry needs to be given a dope-slap to save our kids lives! They are only doing what the market demands, yet somebody, anybody, needs to get things under control. Enough is enough.
Hear, hear! Well said! Gosh, I guess us liberals and you conservatives *can* agree on stuff – there’s hope for us all yet! [laugh]
I concure Rob well put statement
Thu, Jun 23, 2005
Motorcyclist admits to 162-mph ride
WEBB – A Cassville man admitted Tuesday that he reached a speed of 162 mph while riding his motorcycle this weekend on Route 28.
Jeremiah Castello, 22, pleaded guilty to speeding, reckless driving and other traffic violations Tuesday in Town Court, then apologized for what he did, court officials said. Castello’s charges were not reduced, court officials said, and he paid more than $500 in fines and will lose his driver’s license for at least six months.
Castello was initially clocked at 88 mph by state police Sunday afternoon before reaching 162 mph moments later. Troopers pursued Castello north on Route 28 for several minutes before traffic forced him to stop near Thendara.
To paraphrase a pilot’s chorus:
There are old drivers.
There are bold drivers.
But there are no old bold drivers.
Rob,
I agree with you about needing to have some kind of controls and limits, but, don’t you think it starts with the parents first???!!!!!! Stop blaming a booming industry, we as parents (myself a parent of two) have to teach these would be riders at an early enough age to respect these very capable machines. NO way would I let one of my kids jump on any of the current race spec bikes without first learning and knowing how to ride properly. After that its up to them and hope that we did a good enough job as parents to educate them to make the right decision. It is not someone elses responsibility whether it be morally or financially to control the motorcycling industry
Well, as a dues-paying conservative, I tend to lean in the direction of your arguments, philosophically speaking.
HOWEVER, the motorycle industry is a little different than , say, the couch pillow business. These motorcycles are capable of almost four times the national speed limit. And, while YOU seem to be knowledgeable of the potential of these machines, I will bet you any amount of money that a majority of parents putting up the cash for these things have no idea of the attainable speeds. Perhaps if it was required to have a “do not remove under penalty of law” label, similiar to what is required of stuffing pillows with non-synthetic , potentially harmful allergens, stating that “this vehicle is capable of a speed of XXX mph” to give these ignorant parants at least a clue as to what they are putting their kids on. My problem is that the salesman will tell Pops “that big ol 1200cc is too much for a beginner, but this little 600RR is just a putt-putt”, damn well knowing that it is just a deadly as a loaded gun in the hands of a 16 year old. Somewhere between no regulation and total regulation lies a compromise that will allow an honest dealer to prosper while keeping the consumer AND the consumer’s parent advised as to the possible dangers associated with the purchase. There is no simple answer, most likely because the performance has increased much faster than the average non-enthusiast can imagine. My first Honda 450 had to work long and hard to reach “the ton”,where a modern “entry level” bike can reach that velocity just before the 3-4 shift. It is a different world, my friend.
Point well made and taken. My kids love riding their little 50s on the trails with me, but like you said, I learned by riding smaller displacement bikes working my way up to the larger race spec bikes. I feel quite confident that MY children as well as any other child that learns how to ride at an early age will not be a danger to society and themselves if later in the future they decide to get on one of these bikes. I agree with you and what you are saying…. It all comes down to education and respect. I have been riding for roughly 22 years with an AMA race license for 8 years. There are still times when my 1000cc bike makes me get a little nervous and the thought of putting an uneducated punk getting on one of these scares me as well…..
Nuff said
It’s darwinism at its finest. I say we hand these bikes out for free to anyone who wants one and in a short period of time, we can increase the average IQ of the available gene pool by 20 or 30 points.
I agree that the operator’s mentality, experience and maturity level all play an important role dealing with these speed machines. I happen to be a mid-thirty woman who loves the crotch-rockets. I did take the motorcycle course that introduces you to the world both good and bad of riding a moatorcycle. I practiced on side roads and parking lots. I started with a slower cruiser and worked my way up to a fast bike. I wore a helmet 100% of the time along with a leather jacket and gloves even in the dead of the summer here. I gained experience and knowledge about when and where it is safe(is it really ever?) to “open her up”. I rode in small numbers and with those more experienced. Yes, I went 155 down 95 on a straight away when there was no real traffic. Most important I never rode while I was hungry, angry, lonely or tired.
I drive a 2005 CBR1000RR, boy I am glad I opted not to go with GSXR1000!! I prefereed the Honda because the sexier look of the up the seat exhaust system, also my kids won’t burn there legs getting on or off the bike with the side exhaust. and now I know I am saving $$ on insurance!!
It takes two to tango….
Risk takers are drawn to risky machines. The machine does not CAUSE bad riding… but high-performance machines make it startlingly easy to get in over your head quickly, with no good way out. Just ask Jason Williams, former Duke guard.
Graduated licensing in motorcycling would be an effective way to increase the distance between the inadequately skilled rider and a machine that demands extraordinary riding abilities.
thYIdj