The domestic electronic surveillance ball really got rolling under the Clinton administration, with the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA). CALEA mandated that the telcos aid wiretapping by installing remote wiretap ports onto their digital switches so that the switch traffic would be available for snooping by law enforcement. After CALEA passed, the FBI no longer had to go on-site with wiretapping equipment in order to tap a line—they could monitor and digitally process voice communications from the comfort of the home office. (The FCC has recently ruled that CALEA covers VOIP services, which means that providers like Vonage will have to find a way to comply.) Right Mr. Leahy?
In 2000, CBS newsmagazine ’60 Minutes’ reported on Echelon, an electronic surveillance program run by the Clinton administration. Echelon was designed to “eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups, and drug cartels.” But, Steve Kroft noted, “in the process, Echelon’s computer captures virtually every electronic conversation around the world.”
I understand the need to keep Americans safe. However, isn’t eavesdropping and accusing people of terrorism a lot like accusing them of being communist was in the 50’s and 60’s? History showed us that policy was borne totally from fear gone out of control. History has not treated the individuals who were involved there very favorably, and probably correctly so. Before that I guess there were the witches in Boston.
Open the package you are now receiving from the express mail carrier. In it is a cell phone. Press “call.”
If you need any encouragement read this–
Four men in a black car are just pulling up. If you want to survive them for the next 15 minutes, listen carefully. Go into the cubicle across the aisle from you. Keep low. Do it quickly.
Just a moment in your future life, brought to you by Scoot and “Patriot.”
…and started under The Clinton Administration whose activities far exceeded the current administrations data mining activities and of course was pre-9/11.
The Republican Senator Vitter took it back already. Went off mumbling something about preserving family values….This happened in the last six years also–about 6 days ago or less in fact.
Haven’t you heard, the surgeon general said smoking is bad for you. Except he said this week that Bush political handlers told him not to talk about smoking.
So you have been awake? Just a damaged memory. This is a little known side effect of Fox News. Something about subliminal something and preserving American values.
YOu’re transparent and you’re on the defensive. Go lick Scoot’s boots. .
If you think US citizens were not spied upon since the ’50’s & before, get a grip. Aside from blaming any administration, I’m pretty sure it’s just a matter of degree & who they are looking for. Big Brother lives!
Nothing you’ve written changes the fact that this was started under the Clinton administration with the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act and Echelon. All pre-9/11.
How do you Libs do it??? You go into endless rants accusing us of facist crimes; and in the same breath endorse those who seek to collectivise and federalize every facit of life and commerce. As for intolerance of other view points, check out Cong. Robert Kennedy’s diatribe this week at the Live Earth concert.
The real agenda here is to punish America for being too sucessful and take us down a few pegs to make the world a more equal place. And if that means allowing the Islamofacists to have their day in the sun, so be it.
Where do I go to have the chip implanted and the number 666 tatooed on my forehead? If Uncle Sam wants to waste their money spying on me, go for it! I guess they have to have these FBI agents to do something important instead of seeing where the real criminals are…
I agree with your idea that the Dems want to punish us. The economy has thrived since Bush took office. What does that say about Dems? They want to kick us down several pegs because we voted in a Republican President, and for a time a Republican majority.
Scott, thanks for the info. For the life of me I cannot understand why it got these guys so mad.
The government spying is somewhat disturbing under the current administration, but unfortunately NECESSARY FOR OUR SAFETY. What is really scary is if a Dem becomes President. And if you think it will be a problem for Republican supporters only, the rabid liberals are clueless. You better bet they will squash people like the Sheehan and the Code Pink group.
From what I heard, it’s a group that wants us out of Iraq. Hillary was booed &/or heckled on two different occasions, one was probably within the last month or two. I want to say I saw a clip of both visits.
I think she was looking for an audience who wants to put her into office.
I think I figured it out…when they need a break from spying on the citizenry, they put posts in the IJ! Don’t worry about us small time people. Not enough clout to do much of anything.
I am not sure why everyone is arguing about Democrats and Republicans. The current and past spying activity has more to do with generating fear for the purpose or creating an industry where a profit can be made from making the cowardly and the meek feel safe and secure.
With all the security that this country has in place, it is odd that there is always someone of authority telling us why we need to be worried about some future possible tragedy, and why they need to infringe upon our freedoms for our protection. Soon they will protect us right into a dictatorship.
The difference is that when Clinton did it, he got warrants. Let me say that again. The Clinton Administration applied for and got warrants! I don’t care if the FBI, NSA, CIA or whoever wants to spy on someone, but I do care if they don’t do it by the laws set up. And for those of you who will point out that sometimes operations need to happen quickly…that’s fine, but then you go back in the 72 hour window and get your damn warrant.
no system is perfect but when you start having to go to judges for the ok to defend you have turned over the workings of government to unelected individuals usually put in their judgeships by a political party. i have seen good judges but i have seen some really bad ones and they are scary with the power they wield. we are then one step short of having our country run like the muslim ayatollahs run their countries-by religious dictatorship.
observation…I’m not 100% sure about the Ayatollah comment. The whole purpose of having a court / appeal system with judges is that you avoid too much power in the hands of one person. In order to perform a search or tap a phone, you have to show cause. In addition, FISA warrants are virtually never declined. I can’t remember the exact number, but it’s something like 9 out of 20,000.
With regards to the comment about countries run by religious dictators…well as a born again christian, our current president has funded religious groups with public funds and been highly influenced by evangelical movements. The political power and influence of the fundamentalist christian movement has never been stronger, and quite frankly, the rhetoric and message of some of the christian fundamentalist leaders mirrors the messages put out by Terrorists.
DG, How about you give some examples of how christians mirror muslims? Would it include anythiung like chopping heads off, or women being being forced to wear clothing to hide their faces and bodies, or women being forced into marriages? How about stoning people to death? Womens’ genitals being mutilated? Any cases of people blowing themselves up in the name of Jesus or God? Please let me know where Christians have mirrored people of the muslim faith?
I’m sorry but that is not correct. “…in fact, the NSA had been monitoring private domestic telephone conversations on a much larger scale throughout the 1990s – all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.”. 60 minutes – Feb. 2000. (Hardly a right-wing mouthpiece)
I was afraid this would happen. I even hesitated to type it because I knew what would come back, but here goes..I did not state that christians in general were comparable to terrorists that happen to be muslims. I used the qualifier “some” just for this reason.
The point was that intolerance, whether coming from christian or muslims is a huge problem. I have heard evangelicals preach hatred and intolerance towards gays, atheists, feminists, socialists, etc. Comments that have gone as far as saying that gays and feminists were the reason for God ALLOWING 9/11. Every bombing of US clinics that perform abortions is perpetrated by Christians. Every time a doctor that performs abortions is murdered or assaulted, it’s by Christians. These acts are rarely discussed and condemned by the likes of Falwell, Robertson, etc. In fact, read the comments made by Jerry Falwell after 9/11 happened.
No one…NO ONE thinks we should be lenient on terrorist or ignore the threat they pose, however hate speach is not exclusive to muslim terrorists.
You’re entitled to your opinion, BUT, I’ve NEVER been in a house of faith that preached that we should kill doctors that perform abortions or bomb abortion clinics, nor have I ever been around a Christian that espoused that belief. I personally believe this is a significant distinction.
Scott…I checked it out a little bit, and of course found conflicting information. But regardless, if Clinton did it, then he’s just as wrong on this issue as Bush is. But I would like to say that just because I’m a democrat doesn’t mean that I agree with everything Bill Clinton does and says. And even more important, just because Clinton did something slimy doesn’t justify Bush doing it also.
I would say in modern context there are many differences between Christianity and EXTREMIST Islam…but it’s not like Christians have a clean history….The Crusades, anyone? hello – talk about a “kill them all” philosophy….
Not trying to pick a fight. But Christians have many skeletons in their closet.
i could not agree with you more and i am a republican (i voted for nixon-twice). your comments show intelligence, commpassion and the ability to think without religious dogma getting in the way. this is the way it used to be and should be-dialogue between people to reach a common ground. the present administration and thinking is that if you don’t agree with me you are an idiot and condemned to hell.
Ad…hey, I just wanted to make sure you were clear on what I was saying because I didn’t want you to get the wrong idea. I wasn’t trying to compare your average Christian to some nutball going around trying to blow him or herself up with no regard for human life. I didn’t mean to suggest that if there is say, a minister preaching that abortion is wrong, it makes them as bad as a terrorist. I was just trying to say that regardless of the source, when you preach hate, it’s dangerous for us all. Hope you didn’t get the wrong idea.
I am willing to admit I am a conservative Republican AND an evangelical Christian. I am also willing to admit that there are a number of nutball preachers out there proclaiming idiotic things (9/11 was a results of our support of gays, killing abortion providers, etc). To me these supposed Christian leaders are as bad as the Islamic ayatollah’s calls for eradication of the western Satan.
Yes there is evil in the world we must fight. However, Jesus taught to love our neighbor as ourself. I can hate your opinions without hating you. I have several gay friends, but do not believe the gay lifestyle was God’s choice for mankind. We all need to take a step back and realize that just because someone does not believe the same things I do, it is not a trigger to destroy that person.
Lets hope that the ACLU will be monitored closely since they are considered by many, many in the U.S. to be a terrorist orgainzation!
The domestic electronic surveillance ball really got rolling under the Clinton administration, with the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA). CALEA mandated that the telcos aid wiretapping by installing remote wiretap ports onto their digital switches so that the switch traffic would be available for snooping by law enforcement. After CALEA passed, the FBI no longer had to go on-site with wiretapping equipment in order to tap a line—they could monitor and digitally process voice communications from the comfort of the home office. (The FCC has recently ruled that CALEA covers VOIP services, which means that providers like Vonage will have to find a way to comply.) Right Mr. Leahy?
WE LOVE YOU BIG BROTHER!
Cheney and Scooter in 08! and forever!
Who needs elections? Dissent is unpatriotic.
Patriot–go live in Cuba or Venezuela. They fit your mindset better.
…and don’t foret Echelon.
In 2000, CBS newsmagazine ’60 Minutes’ reported on Echelon, an electronic surveillance program run by the Clinton administration. Echelon was designed to “eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups, and drug cartels.” But, Steve Kroft noted, “in the process, Echelon’s computer captures virtually every electronic conversation around the world.”
I understand the need to keep Americans safe. However, isn’t eavesdropping and accusing people of terrorism a lot like accusing them of being communist was in the 50’s and 60’s? History showed us that policy was borne totally from fear gone out of control. History has not treated the individuals who were involved there very favorably, and probably correctly so. Before that I guess there were the witches in Boston.
Gee, Scott (or is it Scoot?)–
Have you been asleep for the last six years? Missed the illegal wiretapping by the current regime?
How about updating us on their activities too? Fair and balanced, no? (Better check with Karl Rove, first).
Das Uber-patriot
The point is that it’s NOT illegal when Dems do it just when “the current administration” does it. How ’bout a cigar?
Neo–We know it’s you.
Open the package you are now receiving from the express mail carrier. In it is a cell phone. Press “call.”
If you need any encouragement read this–
Four men in a black car are just pulling up. If you want to survive them for the next 15 minutes, listen carefully. Go into the cubicle across the aisle from you. Keep low. Do it quickly.
Just a moment in your future life, brought to you by Scoot and “Patriot.”
…and started under The Clinton Administration whose activities far exceeded the current administrations data mining activities and of course was pre-9/11.
The Republican Senator Vitter took it back already. Went off mumbling something about preserving family values….This happened in the last six years also–about 6 days ago or less in fact.
Haven’t you heard, the surgeon general said smoking is bad for you. Except he said this week that Bush political handlers told him not to talk about smoking.
So you have been awake? Just a damaged memory. This is a little known side effect of Fox News. Something about subliminal something and preserving American values.
YOu’re transparent and you’re on the defensive. Go lick Scoot’s boots. .
If you think US citizens were not spied upon since the ’50’s & before, get a grip. Aside from blaming any administration, I’m pretty sure it’s just a matter of degree & who they are looking for. Big Brother lives!
Nothing you’ve written changes the fact that this was started under the Clinton administration with the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act and Echelon. All pre-9/11.
How do you Libs do it??? You go into endless rants accusing us of facist crimes; and in the same breath endorse those who seek to collectivise and federalize every facit of life and commerce. As for intolerance of other view points, check out Cong. Robert Kennedy’s diatribe this week at the Live Earth concert.
The real agenda here is to punish America for being too sucessful and take us down a few pegs to make the world a more equal place. And if that means allowing the Islamofacists to have their day in the sun, so be it.
Where do I go to have the chip implanted and the number 666 tatooed on my forehead? If Uncle Sam wants to waste their money spying on me, go for it! I guess they have to have these FBI agents to do something important instead of seeing where the real criminals are…
I agree with your idea that the Dems want to punish us. The economy has thrived since Bush took office. What does that say about Dems? They want to kick us down several pegs because we voted in a Republican President, and for a time a Republican majority.
Scott, thanks for the info. For the life of me I cannot understand why it got these guys so mad.
The government spying is somewhat disturbing under the current administration, but unfortunately NECESSARY FOR OUR SAFETY. What is really scary is if a Dem becomes President. And if you think it will be a problem for Republican supporters only, the rabid liberals are clueless. You better bet they will squash people like the Sheehan and the Code Pink group.
What’s the Code Pink Group?
What’s the Code Pink Group?
From what I heard, it’s a group that wants us out of Iraq. Hillary was booed &/or heckled on two different occasions, one was probably within the last month or two. I want to say I saw a clip of both visits.
I think she was looking for an audience who wants to put her into office.
Watch out Democrat your name is probably already on the list as republicans believe it’s okay if they spy on you if it’s in the name of ALLAH.
I think I figured it out…when they need a break from spying on the citizenry, they put posts in the IJ! Don’t worry about us small time people. Not enough clout to do much of anything.
Actually, with the collapse of the USSR many documents have come out indicating that there was extensive infiltration of our State Dept by Communists.
Here’s a question for everyone; what is the connection between Joseph McCarthy and the House Un American Activities Committee?
Joseph McCarthy was just ahead of his time by several years. Oh Joe where are you now!
I am not sure why everyone is arguing about Democrats and Republicans. The current and past spying activity has more to do with generating fear for the purpose or creating an industry where a profit can be made from making the cowardly and the meek feel safe and secure.
With all the security that this country has in place, it is odd that there is always someone of authority telling us why we need to be worried about some future possible tragedy, and why they need to infringe upon our freedoms for our protection. Soon they will protect us right into a dictatorship.
Scott,
The difference is that when Clinton did it, he got warrants. Let me say that again. The Clinton Administration applied for and got warrants! I don’t care if the FBI, NSA, CIA or whoever wants to spy on someone, but I do care if they don’t do it by the laws set up. And for those of you who will point out that sometimes operations need to happen quickly…that’s fine, but then you go back in the 72 hour window and get your damn warrant.
no system is perfect but when you start having to go to judges for the ok to defend you have turned over the workings of government to unelected individuals usually put in their judgeships by a political party. i have seen good judges but i have seen some really bad ones and they are scary with the power they wield. we are then one step short of having our country run like the muslim ayatollahs run their countries-by religious dictatorship.
observation…I’m not 100% sure about the Ayatollah comment. The whole purpose of having a court / appeal system with judges is that you avoid too much power in the hands of one person. In order to perform a search or tap a phone, you have to show cause. In addition, FISA warrants are virtually never declined. I can’t remember the exact number, but it’s something like 9 out of 20,000.
With regards to the comment about countries run by religious dictators…well as a born again christian, our current president has funded religious groups with public funds and been highly influenced by evangelical movements. The political power and influence of the fundamentalist christian movement has never been stronger, and quite frankly, the rhetoric and message of some of the christian fundamentalist leaders mirrors the messages put out by Terrorists.
DG, How about you give some examples of how christians mirror muslims? Would it include anythiung like chopping heads off, or women being being forced to wear clothing to hide their faces and bodies, or women being forced into marriages? How about stoning people to death? Womens’ genitals being mutilated? Any cases of people blowing themselves up in the name of Jesus or God? Please let me know where Christians have mirrored people of the muslim faith?
I’m sorry but that is not correct. “…in fact, the NSA had been monitoring private domestic telephone conversations on a much larger scale throughout the 1990s – all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.”. 60 minutes – Feb. 2000. (Hardly a right-wing mouthpiece)
I was afraid this would happen. I even hesitated to type it because I knew what would come back, but here goes..I did not state that christians in general were comparable to terrorists that happen to be muslims. I used the qualifier “some” just for this reason.
The point was that intolerance, whether coming from christian or muslims is a huge problem. I have heard evangelicals preach hatred and intolerance towards gays, atheists, feminists, socialists, etc. Comments that have gone as far as saying that gays and feminists were the reason for God ALLOWING 9/11. Every bombing of US clinics that perform abortions is perpetrated by Christians. Every time a doctor that performs abortions is murdered or assaulted, it’s by Christians. These acts are rarely discussed and condemned by the likes of Falwell, Robertson, etc. In fact, read the comments made by Jerry Falwell after 9/11 happened.
No one…NO ONE thinks we should be lenient on terrorist or ignore the threat they pose, however hate speach is not exclusive to muslim terrorists.
You’re entitled to your opinion, BUT, I’ve NEVER been in a house of faith that preached that we should kill doctors that perform abortions or bomb abortion clinics, nor have I ever been around a Christian that espoused that belief. I personally believe this is a significant distinction.
Scott…I checked it out a little bit, and of course found conflicting information. But regardless, if Clinton did it, then he’s just as wrong on this issue as Bush is. But I would like to say that just because I’m a democrat doesn’t mean that I agree with everything Bill Clinton does and says. And even more important, just because Clinton did something slimy doesn’t justify Bush doing it also.
I would say in modern context there are many differences between Christianity and EXTREMIST Islam…but it’s not like Christians have a clean history….The Crusades, anyone? hello – talk about a “kill them all” philosophy….
Not trying to pick a fight. But Christians have many skeletons in their closet.
i could not agree with you more and i am a republican (i voted for nixon-twice). your comments show intelligence, commpassion and the ability to think without religious dogma getting in the way. this is the way it used to be and should be-dialogue between people to reach a common ground. the present administration and thinking is that if you don’t agree with me you are an idiot and condemned to hell.
Skeletons, not live ones!
Have a good one.
Ad…hey, I just wanted to make sure you were clear on what I was saying because I didn’t want you to get the wrong idea. I wasn’t trying to compare your average Christian to some nutball going around trying to blow him or herself up with no regard for human life. I didn’t mean to suggest that if there is say, a minister preaching that abortion is wrong, it makes them as bad as a terrorist. I was just trying to say that regardless of the source, when you preach hate, it’s dangerous for us all. Hope you didn’t get the wrong idea.
I agree with you. As long as the facts are correctly reported and not deliberately omitted so as to distort reality.
I am willing to admit I am a conservative Republican AND an evangelical Christian. I am also willing to admit that there are a number of nutball preachers out there proclaiming idiotic things (9/11 was a results of our support of gays, killing abortion providers, etc). To me these supposed Christian leaders are as bad as the Islamic ayatollah’s calls for eradication of the western Satan.
Yes there is evil in the world we must fight. However, Jesus taught to love our neighbor as ourself. I can hate your opinions without hating you. I have several gay friends, but do not believe the gay lifestyle was God’s choice for mankind. We all need to take a step back and realize that just because someone does not believe the same things I do, it is not a trigger to destroy that person.