NOOOO. Why would anyone want that? My quality of care would go down AND my expenses would go up. Besides, I am tired of paying for everyone’s health costs already. I think the ability for an ER to refuse uninsured for non-life threatening emergencies might encourage some to get insurance. I know it’s harsh but people need to stop believing that they are entitled to everything and realize that they have to work for it. I don’t work for free and I don’t expect my doctors to either.
DW, That’s not the case in most other western countries. Those countries get BETTER results for about 1/2 the cost. Check out the World Health Organ. which evaluates this stuff. The U.S. is far down the list. Please give facts not unsupported opinions.
If only this were true. Check out the cancer cure rates for the most diagnosed types of cancer. And add to the “cost” for these countries the admin costs of government buildings and workers. THese cost are never consider “costs” because the taxpayer pays for them. Let’s look at an apples to apples comparison and not some nuanced comparison of both cost and effectiveness of the system.
But Tom, please explain why these countries do not move toward our delivery system? If their HC is so terrible, you’d think they’d be demanding to move to our system. Maybe they can’t justify paying some CEO $10,000,000 in compensation plus stockholder dividends when you can pay a gov’t administrator $200,000 or $300.000 for the same results. Even the new British conservative gov’t made a vow during the campaign not to touch the gov’t run HC system. We bult the atom bomb and put a man on the moon without a making a profit, I’m sure we could deliver HC without a profit. Oh, we already do, Medicare, Medicaid and the VA.
April 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Dee says:
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Fred,
One reason is that once you destroy a health insurance system it is almost impossible to reinstate one. Insurance companies do not suddenly spring into existence with sufficient capital and systems to start covering entire populations. Actuaries and underwriters take years to get experience. So, even though there is discontent in may countries with their system, they cannot move to our system.
February 17, 2017 at 4:04 pm
AZ ins man says:
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BUT, people fly here to have surgeries from CAnada and UK everyday due to the surgeon being responsible for the results.
That makes NO sense.
ANYTHING the government does is twice as expensive, or higher, than anything performed by private industry.
Having the govt institute single payer would only increase rates further.
Since Obammycare came into effect, my rates have tripled so I can pay for those people who either do not take care of themselves, smoke heavily or at all, have twelve babies but can’t even feed them etc.
I believe spreading the costs of healthcare ONLY increases costs and provides worse care.
LOOK AT THE VA???? Need I say more???
The real point is not in mandates or anything else, the point is that people can be denied or charged more based on circumstances beyond their control.
The solution is a national health care system like the rest of the civilized world has.
So let me get this right, you want to cure one problem and that requires discarding the existing system. All I can say is that I am glad you don’t practice medicine.
The real point of mandates is to get everyone into the insurance pool and not game the system, which drives insurers out of business because there are more claims made than premiums paid…unless that’s the object. in which case, hope you like health care system in which you don’t get to take the $93K drug that extends your life 2 months.
Kilroy, the mandate part is interesting except if you really wanted to make it work, you would penalize those that chose to wait until the last minute to buy insurance. Unfortunately, the penalty would have to be stiff and would include the elimination of the subsidy that was built into the program, which subsidy was so large that it crept into the mid range of the middle class.
If this were done, the Afforable part of the Affordable care act would dissolve and God knows, the Dems and Obama couldn’t stand for that. So, in essence, the mandate is nothing more than a Dem selling point to get people to think that everyone is contributing to the pool and we can all feel good and relaxed that the problem has been solved. Can you say, insidious?
How about making all of the elected officials supplement their health care costs in their paychecks and when they are no longer an elected official they can pay for their own insurance through cobra or their new jobs.
Maybe if they had to act like “real” tax paying citizens they could come up with an idea to see to it that everyone has health insurance available to them.
How much money would it save the tax payers if we did not foot the bill for the elected officials and their extended families?
Nancy – I agree 1000%^ they should give up one of the many perks and benefits, that w/be the right thing to do but, I think that “pigs will fly” before that happens. These are or appear to be, at best, greedy condescending people – so government by, of and for the people is non-existent in my opinion, very sad what is going on in our America today!
TOTALLY AGREE. All elected officials should be on OUR healthcare plan and OUR retirement plan.
THAT is when they will fix OUR plans. Until then, what are they worried about?
How about this, we repeal the current mess of a law and incorporate some of the suggestions. Why through out the current complex system with a more complex one. That has been the fundemental drive behind repeal.
You are right as usual Tom. This complicated 2,700 page mess is only getting more complicated and geniuses cannot figure out the implications. Throw this trash out and implement a common sense approach like many of us have advocated for the past 2 years. The current turkey is not making it with the American people and will only get worse if we let the Progressives run with it.
I agree that our elected officals should contribute to their cost of Health Insurance and when they are done they either pay for Cobra or get a real job that provides it.
Another comment I would like to make is since I am in the business and do enrollment meetings the many young people I see declining coverage because they cannot afford but they are the ones with the lastest and greatest cell phones or trucks that are 10 feet off the ground etc….
As a broker/agent and the many I work with, not one of them push a higher priced plan just because they make more off the deal. Most are in it to provide the most cost effective solution for the insured.
Nothing in these 10 ideas addresses the cost of health care. If we provide for the funding without addressing the cost side, health care suppliers will continue to increase costs at a rate that is currently well above cost of living averages.
Higher education is another area where there is a good deal of public funding support that helps enable rampant cost increases.
Another option suggested during debate of Obamacare was precluding union negotated contracts with cafeteria plans that allow an employee to opt out of health care insurance. Currently allowing pre tax dollars to go into such broad cafeteria plans with the opt out option for health insurance has the effect of raising the costs for health insurance for those remaining and sometimes distroying the company sponsored health insurance plan or reducing the employers ability to get comperitive bids for health insurance.I am amazed the GAO analysts did not idenify this option.
Unions are the scourge of America in both public and private sector. They want all the benefits and put no skin in the game. Have you noticed how many of them have opted out of Obamacare due to the cost? They think the employer or the taxpayer should pick up the entire tab for this monstrocity. Go Wisconsin. Thank you for exposing them for what they are and decertifying them from negotiating benefits.
Fred, I think you are wrong. Great Britain is, for the first time since implementing their system, looking into public private relationships. Canada is getting their toes wet as well. And Germany, has a hybrid system where a citizen can also purchase insurance for coverage above the state run basics.
Tom, Great Britain is also cutting thousands of Health Care workers since their system is so expensive and unsustainable and the government is cutting 130 Bil from their budget. The Progressives are screaming over there and doing the riot act and here we sit quibbling over a few measley billion from the current budget. Looks like Britain has gotten the message. Too bad our wonderful congress and administration don’t have it.
But Tom, regardless of whether private coverage plays a role, gov’t delivered care will the base. Some European countries do use private insurance as the primary delivery system but they are regulated like public utilities.
Fred, you are right to a degree. However, if you don’t think that the health insurers are heavily regulated by each state, you haven’t been in the industry very long.
You insurance people are self-interested and cruel defending our current system. Like slavery forced the “masters” out of a “job,” ending big-profit insurance companies — an evil as great as slavery — will also mean some people need to look for new work.
James, the average profit of a health insurance company is 3-5%. I guess any profit is obscene in your world. I have seen this mindset before when speaking of the BILLIONS that oil companies make. Well, if I sell a billion of barrels of fuel at $1 per barrell, guess what I make a ONE BILLION dollar profit and people of your political persuasion can then demogouge the BILLION I made to whip up the masses. I have grown tired of the hyperbole that the left uses to motivate its base. This type of rhetoric is approaching the danger zone where revolutionaries thrive.
The Progressive crowd like James don’t care that the companies have to dedicate 80-85% of every premium dollar to healthcare payments. They are supposed to pay all their overhead expenses on 15% of the premium. The agents like me are getting squeezed on commissions for doing the grunt work. For this reason, I have decided not to help anyone with Health Insurance since I refuse to work for a pittance. I can do well with P&C. Good luck to anyone working in this market for the future.
James,
Insurance companies are not evil. I think that you misunderstand insurance. Insurance is a pool of money managed to provide payment to those who experience a financial loss. Currently, this is handled in the United States by companies who monitor the pool and make sure that it is managed for the benefit of those who pay into it, not the public in general. They do this for a fee, called profif, which benefits the managing company. You think that by having all the different pools combined and managed by one monitor, the government, things will be improved. Just remember, the government will also manage the pool for its benefit, which will be more power. I would rather have many smaller pools managed by competing managers that are in it for the money rather than one big pool managed by something in it for power.
Here in New Jersey we have “Guaranteed Health Insurance” Since 1993.
If your an Employer with more than 6 Full-time employees there are NO Preexisting conditions, If you under 6 full time employees there is only a 6 month wait on Pre-X. We have Dependent to Age 31 law on the book, which now has to be amended to Age 26 Thanks to Obama Care.
All the Federal Gov’t had to do was look to NJ for the answers, Obama did not need a 2700 page bill to do this. Also here in NJ all Health Insurance carriers must dedicate 75% of premiums received to pay claims, If this pool has money at the end of the year, the policyholders (Employer) receive a rebate check. This system is working here in NJ.
Dee, you are on the right track here. However, medical expenses should not be discharged through bankruptcy only if you did not purchase some type of insurance, i.e. major medical. Those who choose not to buy a minimal insurance policy should know that they will need to pay these expenses off through out their lifetime. I’m tired of people taking a free ride on the rest of us.
A tax that you get rebated? Credit score destruction?
Here’s the real solution: fire the mega-profit insurance companies and institute single-payer coverage by providing Medicare for all Americans.
DONE.
NOOOO. Why would anyone want that? My quality of care would go down AND my expenses would go up. Besides, I am tired of paying for everyone’s health costs already. I think the ability for an ER to refuse uninsured for non-life threatening emergencies might encourage some to get insurance. I know it’s harsh but people need to stop believing that they are entitled to everything and realize that they have to work for it. I don’t work for free and I don’t expect my doctors to either.
DW, That’s not the case in most other western countries. Those countries get BETTER results for about 1/2 the cost. Check out the World Health Organ. which evaluates this stuff. The U.S. is far down the list. Please give facts not unsupported opinions.
If only this were true. Check out the cancer cure rates for the most diagnosed types of cancer. And add to the “cost” for these countries the admin costs of government buildings and workers. THese cost are never consider “costs” because the taxpayer pays for them. Let’s look at an apples to apples comparison and not some nuanced comparison of both cost and effectiveness of the system.
But Tom, please explain why these countries do not move toward our delivery system? If their HC is so terrible, you’d think they’d be demanding to move to our system. Maybe they can’t justify paying some CEO $10,000,000 in compensation plus stockholder dividends when you can pay a gov’t administrator $200,000 or $300.000 for the same results. Even the new British conservative gov’t made a vow during the campaign not to touch the gov’t run HC system. We bult the atom bomb and put a man on the moon without a making a profit, I’m sure we could deliver HC without a profit. Oh, we already do, Medicare, Medicaid and the VA.
Fred,
One reason is that once you destroy a health insurance system it is almost impossible to reinstate one. Insurance companies do not suddenly spring into existence with sufficient capital and systems to start covering entire populations. Actuaries and underwriters take years to get experience. So, even though there is discontent in may countries with their system, they cannot move to our system.
BUT, people fly here to have surgeries from CAnada and UK everyday due to the surgeon being responsible for the results.
James, good luck getting a doctor to treat you or a hospital for your stay. A leftist aphorism that withers in the real world.
That makes NO sense.
ANYTHING the government does is twice as expensive, or higher, than anything performed by private industry.
Having the govt institute single payer would only increase rates further.
Since Obammycare came into effect, my rates have tripled so I can pay for those people who either do not take care of themselves, smoke heavily or at all, have twelve babies but can’t even feed them etc.
I believe spreading the costs of healthcare ONLY increases costs and provides worse care.
LOOK AT THE VA???? Need I say more???
How about efforts to lower the cost of care? That was not even mentioned?!?
The real point is not in mandates or anything else, the point is that people can be denied or charged more based on circumstances beyond their control.
The solution is a national health care system like the rest of the civilized world has.
So let me get this right, you want to cure one problem and that requires discarding the existing system. All I can say is that I am glad you don’t practice medicine.
The real point of mandates is to get everyone into the insurance pool and not game the system, which drives insurers out of business because there are more claims made than premiums paid…unless that’s the object. in which case, hope you like health care system in which you don’t get to take the $93K drug that extends your life 2 months.
Kilroy, the mandate part is interesting except if you really wanted to make it work, you would penalize those that chose to wait until the last minute to buy insurance. Unfortunately, the penalty would have to be stiff and would include the elimination of the subsidy that was built into the program, which subsidy was so large that it crept into the mid range of the middle class.
If this were done, the Afforable part of the Affordable care act would dissolve and God knows, the Dems and Obama couldn’t stand for that. So, in essence, the mandate is nothing more than a Dem selling point to get people to think that everyone is contributing to the pool and we can all feel good and relaxed that the problem has been solved. Can you say, insidious?
This has NOT worked well or as well as our system anywhere UNLESS you would prefer 80% income taxes like those countries??
LOOK AT THE VA and tell me you want that???
How about making all of the elected officials supplement their health care costs in their paychecks and when they are no longer an elected official they can pay for their own insurance through cobra or their new jobs.
Maybe if they had to act like “real” tax paying citizens they could come up with an idea to see to it that everyone has health insurance available to them.
How much money would it save the tax payers if we did not foot the bill for the elected officials and their extended families?
Nancy – I agree 1000%^ they should give up one of the many perks and benefits, that w/be the right thing to do but, I think that “pigs will fly” before that happens. These are or appear to be, at best, greedy condescending people – so government by, of and for the people is non-existent in my opinion, very sad what is going on in our America today!
TOTALLY AGREE. All elected officials should be on OUR healthcare plan and OUR retirement plan.
THAT is when they will fix OUR plans. Until then, what are they worried about?
How about this, we repeal the current mess of a law and incorporate some of the suggestions. Why through out the current complex system with a more complex one. That has been the fundemental drive behind repeal.
You are right as usual Tom. This complicated 2,700 page mess is only getting more complicated and geniuses cannot figure out the implications. Throw this trash out and implement a common sense approach like many of us have advocated for the past 2 years. The current turkey is not making it with the American people and will only get worse if we let the Progressives run with it.
I agree that our elected officals should contribute to their cost of Health Insurance and when they are done they either pay for Cobra or get a real job that provides it.
Another comment I would like to make is since I am in the business and do enrollment meetings the many young people I see declining coverage because they cannot afford but they are the ones with the lastest and greatest cell phones or trucks that are 10 feet off the ground etc….
As a broker/agent and the many I work with, not one of them push a higher priced plan just because they make more off the deal. Most are in it to provide the most cost effective solution for the insured.
Nothing in these 10 ideas addresses the cost of health care. If we provide for the funding without addressing the cost side, health care suppliers will continue to increase costs at a rate that is currently well above cost of living averages.
Higher education is another area where there is a good deal of public funding support that helps enable rampant cost increases.
Another option suggested during debate of Obamacare was precluding union negotated contracts with cafeteria plans that allow an employee to opt out of health care insurance. Currently allowing pre tax dollars to go into such broad cafeteria plans with the opt out option for health insurance has the effect of raising the costs for health insurance for those remaining and sometimes distroying the company sponsored health insurance plan or reducing the employers ability to get comperitive bids for health insurance.I am amazed the GAO analysts did not idenify this option.
Unions are the scourge of America in both public and private sector. They want all the benefits and put no skin in the game. Have you noticed how many of them have opted out of Obamacare due to the cost? They think the employer or the taxpayer should pick up the entire tab for this monstrocity. Go Wisconsin. Thank you for exposing them for what they are and decertifying them from negotiating benefits.
Fred, I think you are wrong. Great Britain is, for the first time since implementing their system, looking into public private relationships. Canada is getting their toes wet as well. And Germany, has a hybrid system where a citizen can also purchase insurance for coverage above the state run basics.
Tom, Great Britain is also cutting thousands of Health Care workers since their system is so expensive and unsustainable and the government is cutting 130 Bil from their budget. The Progressives are screaming over there and doing the riot act and here we sit quibbling over a few measley billion from the current budget. Looks like Britain has gotten the message. Too bad our wonderful congress and administration don’t have it.
But Tom, regardless of whether private coverage plays a role, gov’t delivered care will the base. Some European countries do use private insurance as the primary delivery system but they are regulated like public utilities.
Fred, you are right to a degree. However, if you don’t think that the health insurers are heavily regulated by each state, you haven’t been in the industry very long.
You insurance people are self-interested and cruel defending our current system. Like slavery forced the “masters” out of a “job,” ending big-profit insurance companies — an evil as great as slavery — will also mean some people need to look for new work.
Playing the slavery card? really? Ok, now we just need someone to step up and compare insurance companies to Nazis and we’ll be all set.
Great argument James. You should be proud.
James, the average profit of a health insurance company is 3-5%. I guess any profit is obscene in your world. I have seen this mindset before when speaking of the BILLIONS that oil companies make. Well, if I sell a billion of barrels of fuel at $1 per barrell, guess what I make a ONE BILLION dollar profit and people of your political persuasion can then demogouge the BILLION I made to whip up the masses. I have grown tired of the hyperbole that the left uses to motivate its base. This type of rhetoric is approaching the danger zone where revolutionaries thrive.
The Progressive crowd like James don’t care that the companies have to dedicate 80-85% of every premium dollar to healthcare payments. They are supposed to pay all their overhead expenses on 15% of the premium. The agents like me are getting squeezed on commissions for doing the grunt work. For this reason, I have decided not to help anyone with Health Insurance since I refuse to work for a pittance. I can do well with P&C. Good luck to anyone working in this market for the future.
James,
Insurance companies are not evil. I think that you misunderstand insurance. Insurance is a pool of money managed to provide payment to those who experience a financial loss. Currently, this is handled in the United States by companies who monitor the pool and make sure that it is managed for the benefit of those who pay into it, not the public in general. They do this for a fee, called profif, which benefits the managing company. You think that by having all the different pools combined and managed by one monitor, the government, things will be improved. Just remember, the government will also manage the pool for its benefit, which will be more power. I would rather have many smaller pools managed by competing managers that are in it for the money rather than one big pool managed by something in it for power.
Here in New Jersey we have “Guaranteed Health Insurance” Since 1993.
If your an Employer with more than 6 Full-time employees there are NO Preexisting conditions, If you under 6 full time employees there is only a 6 month wait on Pre-X. We have Dependent to Age 31 law on the book, which now has to be amended to Age 26 Thanks to Obama Care.
All the Federal Gov’t had to do was look to NJ for the answers, Obama did not need a 2700 page bill to do this. Also here in NJ all Health Insurance carriers must dedicate 75% of premiums received to pay claims, If this pool has money at the end of the year, the policyholders (Employer) receive a rebate check. This system is working here in NJ.
I would make health care incurred costs non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Dee, you are on the right track here. However, medical expenses should not be discharged through bankruptcy only if you did not purchase some type of insurance, i.e. major medical. Those who choose not to buy a minimal insurance policy should know that they will need to pay these expenses off through out their lifetime. I’m tired of people taking a free ride on the rest of us.