Consumer-driven plans can be sold individually, replacing employer-sponsored health plans, and replacing the entire Obama government construct, as well as ERISA, HIPAA, COBRA, etc. and all the bureaucracies that are tied to them.
It isn’t just republicans who don’t want teh government involved in healthcare. Anyone that has used a VA hospital knows that the government can run a hospital. You will be HAHAHA ing yourself into an early grave because of some federal employee doesn’t care if they mess up your meds because they can’t be fired for not doing there job.
I did to. And I am a big fan of Justice Roberts. I honestly think that Justice Roberts may not care for the legislation (just my opinion), however, having to interpret the constitution (that is his job), and setting politics aside, this is what he believed, that congress has the right to tax…or penalize as some see it. That’s the great thing about this nation, being able to openly debate this sort of thing. Although I am a conservative and very much oposed to this legislation, I do believe that every american, rich or poor deserves health care. Now, how we provide that is the tough part, through a tax may have to be the way, but it should not be selective. As voters we get to choose in November what direction we want our nation to move in. I just hope we choose the right (no pun intended) one. At least we are free to choose. Happy 4th of July to everyone!
Producer #1 – You are not alone. Chief Justice Roberts surprised more than a few people. This is the least political decision by the Supreme Court in recent memory.
The premiums are still going to the various healthcare providing carriers, right? Or, are the premiums going to the government? This is actually a pretty big win for Americans. No lifetime limits, no pre-existing conditions, free preventative care, and Constitutionally founded. Washington had a mandate every able-bodied white man to purchase a firearm (Milita Acts of 1792). The very first congress also mandated ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. Signed into law by Washington again. Then, in 1798, Congress enacted a law requiring those seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That was signed into law by John Adams. I am certain the founders would be very much in favor of at least similar law to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Kudos to President Obama for getting something done. Even if he doesn’t win in November, without a doubt this solidifies him as a monumental President.
As usual Planet, your head is in the clouds and you refuse to face reality. The Supremes revealed the truth that it is a tax, not a penalty as the President has repeated over and over. This is the biggest tax on the middle class in history. Couple that with them planning to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year and it is a double whammy on the Middle Class. Tell me Planet, how is this economy ever going to recover from this excessive taxation scheme. Small Businesses all over the country are going to lay off more employees and drop their Group Coverage because they can’t handle the increased costs. Employees are going to be thrown into the exchanges to fend for themselves and end up paying for less coverage at higher rates. I disagree with you about Obama. He will not be remembered as a monumental President. He is the biggest failure as a President in our lifetime and is making Jimmy Carter look pretty good at this point and that is hard to do.
July 6, 2012 at 3:22 pm
First Agent says:
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John, Had Multi Line Agent put a question mark behind his statement, he may have had more likes. Stating it like he did makes me wonder if he ageees with the bill. Since we can’t have a nationwide referendum on this monstrocity, we will just have to change out the Presidency and the Senate in November so we can get it repealed.
–Allows FDA greater ability to approve generic drugs
–Increases drug rebates in Medicare
–Creats non-profit PCORI entity to study various treatments to compare efficacy, costs etc
–Chain restaurants have to display nutritional info like calories
–Creates “high risk pool” for people w/ pre-existing conditions
–Adds 10% tax on indoor tanning booths
–No more “Lifetime Maximum Limits”
–Children can be covered under parents’ health plans until age 26
–No more pre-existing condition restrictions for kids under age 19
–Less ability to change rates
–People in the Medicare “donut” get a rebate
–Insurers must provide more detail about costs
–Requires an internal appeals process for claim denials
–New fraud prevention measures were created
–Medicare extended to smaller hospitals
–Medicare patients w/ chronic illness must be more thoroughly monitored
–Reduced costs for companies handling benefits for elderly
–www.healthcare.gov was created
–New credit program to spur business innovation in illness treatment
–Cap on carrier expense ratios
–Limits on what type of accounts can be used to pay for OTC drugs w/o prescription
–Employers rqeuired to detail benefits provided in their tax forms
All of the above already took effect. On 8/01 plans will have to include preventative care with no co-pay or deductible.
On 1/1/13 taxes will very slightly increase for those making over $200,000 per year. Yes, 0.9% is a tiny increase. Or, if you’re a Rush-head, “the biggest tax increase in the history of the world”.
1/1/2014 — More substantive changes take effect including pre-existing condition elimination, the “tax” / individual mandate, no more annual spending caps at all, raise the low income cutoff for Medicaid, tax credits for small business, businesses w/ > 50 employees must offer full-time employees health benefits, new limits to maximum deductibles, Medicare spending cuts, $2500 limits on FSAs, creates health care exchanges, Congress only gets plans from these exchanges (no more Federal plans for Congresspersons), new taxes on Pharma industry, new taxes based on % market share for health insurers, and a higher tax deduction allowed for medical expenses.
There’s some more stuff w/ later triggers– 1/1/15, 1/1/17, 2018, & 2020.
I think it’s wonderful how all those benefits, that long list, will be paid for by “very slight increases for those making over $200k”
In fact, I think it’s miraculous.
Not that you would be interested, but you did read a little while ago how the math of the bill was shown to be completely wrong, and that the costs would be much higher than projected.
There are lies, darned lies, and statistics. I won’t attempt to break down the math in the bill. No one has been able to, and I wouldn’t trust any statistics or interpretations regardless the source. Someone asked what was included in the bill in a bullet point form. I merely provided a short summary of what is actually in the bill without comment in an effort to further a legitimate discussion based on actual facts.
Exitebiker, I hope you enjoy paying for these coverage in your premiums, because your employer just cancelled your benefits and pays the $500 penalty for not providing you with health insurance. Congratulations you now a paying for your own benefits and your 26 year old failure to launch liberal kid sleeping to 2:00pm in his bedroom that he “occupied” as a teenager ever since flunking out of college.
I am my brother’s keeper and if I have to pay a little more to ensure all Americans can find the coverage they need in order to be healthy, it’s worth it. Yes, even that college kid that flunked out and is in his mom’s basement. He’s probably down there working on what will become the next Apple. That is well worth my investment. Just think, Sarah, you’re helping save lives. You can honestly say that now.
Finally! You made a comment with real substance, even if you did load it with right-wing talk radio slogans. I guess only liberals that sleep until 2pm end up “occupying” their parents’ home.
The biggest failure of the bill will be its failure to adequately control costs. If employers cannot afford to offer plans and don’t perceive a risk of brain drain if they were to cease offering it then they will stop doing so. If individuals cannot afford coverage they will not buy it.
The thought process is– and here’s where the Republican idea for the individual mandate came in– that you can get the adverse selection out of the system by getting everyone bought in. Please don’t forget it was the health insurers and Republicans who advocated for many years for an individual mandate.
Only time will tell how much the increased participation will improve medical loss ratios.
We knew the prior system was unsustainable. I think the PPACA is a positive step that will improve trends for future projections. But the system is so broken on so many levels that it may not be enough, and the system may still ultimately collapse.
But so far the world hasn’t ended even though many of the provisions have been in place for a while. They ought to give PPACA a chance. Tearing it down and going through another political war over a revision (that, let’s face it, will probably end up also being 2,000 pages and looking a lot like the PPACA) will be a huge cost for the insurance companies. Do you really think United Health Care wants to un-do all of the stuff they just worked to implement and then just end up having to make even more changes if a replacement bill was passed?
Also wouldn’t a 26-year old be a good addition to any health plan? It seems like that would bring down costs. Would you rathter insure a couple in their mid 50s by themselves or would you rather insure the couple plus a healthy 26-year old for additional premium? How can this possibly be viewed as a bad provision of the law?
ExciteBiker states ” taxes will very slightly increase for those making over $200k. You neglected to mention the seven new taxes on citizens making less than $250k including the consequences. It is the biggest tax increase on all Americans.
The first, and best known, of these seven taxes that will hit all Americans as a result of Obamacare is the Individual Mandate Tax (no longer concealed as a penalty). This provision will require a couple to pay the higher of a base tax of $1,360 per year, or 2.5% of adjusted growth income starting with lower base tax and rising to this level by 2016. Individuals will see a base tax of $695 and families a base tax of $2,085 per year by 2016.
Next up is the Medicine Cabinet Tax that took effect in 2011. This tax prohibits reimbursement of expenses for over-the-counter medicine, with the lone exception of insulin, from an employee’s pre-tax dollar funded Health Saving Account (HSA), Flexible Spending Account (FSA) or Health Reimbursement Account (HRA). This provision hurts middle class earners particularly hard since they earn enough to actually pay federal taxes, but not enough to make this restriction negligible.
The Flexible Spending Account (FSA) Cap, which will begin in 2013, is perhaps the most hurtful provision to the middle class. This part of the law imposes a cap of $2,500 per year (which is now unlimited) on the amount of pre-tax dollars that could be deposited into these accounts. Why is this particularly hurtful to the middle class? It is because funds in these accounts may be used to pay for special needs education for special needs children in the United States. Tuition rates for this type of special education can easily exceed $14,000 per year and the use of pre-tax dollars has helped many middle income families.
Another direct hit to the middle class is the Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle which is currently 7.5% of adjusted gross income. This is the hurdle that must be met before medical expenses over that hurdle can be taken as a deduction on federal income taxes. Obamacare raises this hurdle to 10% of adjusted gross income beginning in 2013. Consider the middle class family with $80,000 of adjusted gross income and $8,000 of medical expenses. Currently, that family can get some relief from being able to take a $2,000 deduction (7.5% X $80,000 = $6,000; $8,000 –$6,000 = $2,000). An increase to 10% would eliminate the deduction in this example and if that family was paying a 25% federal tax rate, the real cost of that lost deduction would be $500.
The fifth new tax on the middle class, and all Americans, is the Health Savings Account (HSA) Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10% currently to 20% beginning in 2013. This provision actually sets these accounts apart from Investment Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and other tax advantaged accounts, all of which remain with a 10% early withdrawal tax.
Another regressive tax that is part of this law began in 2010 and that is the Indoor Tanning Services Tax, which places a 10% excise tax on people using tanning salons. While some may regard this as insignificant, the broader implication is that this act of taxation is a blatant move by the federal government to control the behavior of citizens. This provision, as does the Individual Mandate and as Justice Kennedy said during the oral arguments on the constitutionality of the law said, “….fundamentally changes the relationship between the federal government and the citizen.”
The seventh new tax that directly impacts the middle class, along with all citizens, is the Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans or the “Cadillac” Health Insurance Plan Tax. These are plans that provide extensive coverage and that are generally fully paid for, or largely paid for, by employers. This provision imposes a 40% excise tax on the employer-paid premium on taxpayers who are covered by such plans, beginning in 2018. The reason it begins in 2018 is because most unionized workers are covered by plans that fall under this definition and a deferral was made to spare union members from this tax for at least a period of time.
Also beginning in 2014, the Employer Mandate Tax will impose an annual non-deductible tax on employers with more than 50 employees who do not provide health insurance for their employees.
The impact of this provision on low and middle income earners, and really all working Americans, is that employers will be confronted with three choices. The first is provide some level of health insurance, as many do today, and there would be no impact on employees. The second choice is to pay the penalty, which would most likely be less expensive than providing health insurance, and force employees to seek their own health insurance or purchase it through federal government controlled state exchanges. Studies have estimated that 20 million Americans will lose their employee funded health insurance as a result of this provision and employers electing this option. The third choice is for employers to lay off employees, or not hire additional employees, because Obamacare forces them to either provide health insurance or pay the new tax.
Thank you Facts for pointing out all these new taxes which will have disastrous economic consequences on this country. Obamatax will be the end of the country as we know it unless the good citizens put a stop to it in November. While we are talking about taxes, there is another feature in this bill which will impose a 2.5% Excise Tax if you sell your home. Great, isn’t it? Another thing due to happen is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Democrats are licking their chops on this one. I am sure that will be a great job creator as well. They won’t be happy unless we have as high a rate as France. How is that working out for them? Implosion!
Insurance is all about a risk pool, when there are so many outside of the current health insurance pool how can we say that the spirit of this action is wrong?
So using your logic the whole concept of self insurance is out? I fully agree that having a means by which to support the economic consequences of your own health is critical and for most insurance is the right way to go. Just find it against the principles that our country was founded on to force someone to purchase insurance or any good solely due to being alive is wrong.
Then the only true solution to our health insurance crisis is socialized medicine. I really don’t think Ben Franklin thought his bright idea would lead to this!
In truth, though, how many people really want to self-insure? As things have been, insurance companies squawk about adverse selection when what they’ve really wanted was just to cherry-pick the very best risks and leave those with existing conditions to figure out other alternatives, which haven’t always been available. If insurers were better at devising an acceptable mechanism that could protect all comers, the national program might not have been necessary. But they didn’t, and here we are.
Self insurance is out because very, very few people could truly afford to use it. Here in Texas you can make a $50,000 deposit with the state comptroller and never worry about buying auto insurance. Not a problem. But the problem with health care is that $50,000 isn’t nearly enough. If it was there would be no problem. When not even $1,000,000 is enough you start to have some real problems. When a simple surgical procedure can go wrong and result in a 2-week hospital stay and the patient ends up with–literally– a rolling suitcase full of bills totaling millions of dollars, you know you have a really, really bad problem.
The problem is Economics! Supply. And. Demand. Supply (capable doctors and surgeons) is small and shrinking with every newly elected GOP rep that wants to wage war on science in the name of the Religious Right. And Demand is EXPLODING! Look around. See any obese people? Morbidly obese? See any morbidly obese kids? Know any smokers who are morbedly obese, have type II diabetes, and have all sorts of big medical problems? Know any people with double knee replacements? Know anyone with high blood pressure?
We live in a country where, pretty soon, people will start visibly seeing the reality of social darwinism. When you only have one loaf of bread but a hundred hungry people some people are not going to eat. Care will either be rationed by the government or by the size of your wallet. And as long as we celebrate shows about people having 40 children while we eviscerate our school systems and stuff our faces with fried butter and salt things are only going to get worse.
I agree what ever happened to the concept that if you could not afford to pay you went to the county hospital? Oh I remember the fed says to the hospital if you want to take medicare payments then you also have to treat everyone regardless of ability to pay.
Exactly! The Government, State and Federal, screwed it all up with mandated coverage minimums and other regulations, and and they still think they can fix it all with more laws and regulation!
Reagan said the government was the problem, not the solution. Truers words have never been spoken.
June 28, 2012 at 11:19 am
Random says:
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That is definitely surprising. The tax thing makes sense, except that the penalty is not a tax. I’m guessing that they will need to alter the wording in the bill to make the ruling sound intelligent.
This isn’t going to solve our problem. There will still be millions of uninsured who while choose to pay the penalty as opposed to healthcare premiums (since cheaper). Yeah the gov’t may get some additional “tax” revenue, but ultimately the goal was not achieved; also there is no guarantee the gov’t will spend that additional revenue appropriately (like with Social Security).
For those who have supported the individual mandate portion of the bill, I hope you understand that this was just a political play and nothing more. At the end of the day the gov’t will still be taking more money from you and giving to those who don’t work.
Obama has said time and time again that he believes in redistribution of wealth. So don’t get upset when your bank account is empty.
Anytime you have a Presidency, Congress & the Court ignoring the will of the people, this is what can happen. Upholding this monstrocity is another step on the way to Socialism. All one has to do is look at Europe which is imploding as we speak to see the damage done by Progressive Socialism. The American People have a chance to speak in November and then we can see about getting this monstrocity repealed. I am surprised that John Roberts was the one casting the tie breaking vote. Apparently, he is not on the side of Conservatives either and must not care if the country goes down the tubes.
The court is to interpret the law as it is. It is up to the citizens to vote for leaders that will implement the correct laws. I personally hate Obamacare and will do everything in my power to get a conservative majority in Washington so that we can move the country in the right direction.
After the law is understood those that really study the financial implications for their situation will decide whether to “opt out” and pay the “tax” or purchase healthcare. The best financial selection may be to pay the tax, pay cash for routine medical care and then if something catastrophic occurs buy the healthcare since the pre-existing condition issue is removed.
From what I see, Seer has it right on. I am looking at the financial side of it and it looks to me like opting out is a great option for me. I have health insurance but most of my family medical bills end up being out of pocket because of the deductible. I have the insurance in case of a catastrophic situation. If I can’t be rejected for a preexisting condition what is the purpose of having insurance.
This law has all the clarity & brevity of the IRS Code. That said, the interpretations I have fielded point to the initially-low tax/penalty increasing substantially, forcing the individual to buy into the government plan. And of course the enforcement arm will be the unbridled power and reach of the IRS.
If this is such a fine solution for those of us outside the gilded halls of government liberalism, why did all those D-legislators EXEMPT themselves from it? That is the height of hypocrisy.
I agree that the initial tax will increase substantially after the process flows towards the single payer system, which was the real intent of the drafters of the law. The private insurers will not be able to stay in business as they cover large expenditures due to the removal of the pre-existing condition clause.
With fewer limits on Congress’ power under the Commerce Clause, look forward to increasing encroachment on freedoms currently taken for granted.
Yes, the government can force to both buy and you eat broccoli, and penalize you if you don’t. Next, there’s no reason it cannot force you to buy and do lots of other things you thought it could not.
Just like every American today routinely accepts restraints on freedom, in the name of security, that would have been thought unimaginable pre-9/11, your chidren will accept what today you thought it impossible.
This is how a country collapses. No matter how well-established, there will always be forces that pull it away from stability, and eventualyl bring it down. This was not step 1, but it is a large step on the way there.
The mandate was defined as a tax. The commerce clause was upheld by Roberts. By defining the mandate as a tax, it precludes the unconstitutionality of the mandate had it been considered within the commerce clause. Roberts made an objective ruling. I can’t argue with that. But, yes, we’re heading down a path to Socialism. We can stop this progression in it’s tracks- GET OUT THERE AND VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
You don’t tax them , they just keep getting free healthcare, like they do here in Dallas at Parkland, with the largest number of babies born each year of any county hospital. Then I, a legal citizen and property owner, pay my Parkland hospital district portion of my tax bill, and they get coverage. Not a thing changes. The legal citizens foot the bill.
Are you allowed to say “legal citizen” anymore? Or is that considered racist?
I know you are not allowed to say “illegal alien,” becuase although they broke the law to come here, they are now to be referred to as “undocumented,” as if they had accidentally left their citizenship papers at home.
this is a one trillion dollar unfunded mandate by our government (some sources are saying two trillion)… a huge tax increase is comming… I am shocked that this law was held by the high court as constitutional…
Gov’t in the insurance business. How did the flood thing work for ya? Why do they always think they can do it better, faster, cheaper then the professionals?
They, ‘The Dems’, simply don’t believe we are equal to their superior intellect. So the version they invent and stuff down our throats is ALWAYS better in their eyes than what the private sector can do.
Their ‘god-complex’ was allowed to run amok with majorities in both houses AND the White House, and now we’ll dearly pay the price if this monster isn’t repealed.
The only other recourse would be to truly socialize medicine! All of those who are paying for health insurance now are supporting those who choose not to. When an uninsured person is injured or has a health crisis the “payors” are truly paying for them. Is this going to level that field? Only time can tell.
I am totally against Obamacare. Unfortunately for some it is not a matter of whether they choose to have insurance; they just plain and simple do not have the money. With good jobs so scarse and with employers not offering insurance, being able to buy it is cost prohibitive. If I am making just barely minimum wage and only able to work 30 hours a week (because my employer would have to give me insurance if I work more than that)I can’t afford the cost of insurance. I have already downsized from the new carto the 15 years old worn out car, gotten rid of cable, and eat a lot of hamburger, where in the budget do I find money for health insurance. I don’t know what the answer is, but penalizing and taxing people for not having insurance is not the answer. How about if government gets their hands out of the pockets of the businesses in America the provide jobs and let them put people back to work. When a doctors office or pharmacy can charge two different prices for a service or product depending on whether you have insurance or not…that is wrong.
Just saying…
IIRC you shouldn’t have any penalties for not carrying health insurance unless you make more than 4x the federal poverty level. Do you? (What is that, something around $40,000 a year for a single person?)
And if you make less than 1.33x the poverty level you may have just become eligible for the expanded medicaid program. The expansion was designed to help working people who can’t make ends meet. Many of those people have stories similar to yours.
The other nice thing is that, if you were to be diagnosed with some illness or become injured somehow, insurance companies will no longer be able to deny you coverage because you were uninsured at the time.
Who pays for it? At least some of it will come from the millions of 20-somethings in excellent health who don’t bother to get insurance now because they don’t think it’s worth it. They will come into the pool with very low losses and expenses. Imagine if only those who had accidents and violations bought auto insurance. Then the ‘good’ drivers suddenly entered the pool. Do you thiink the rates would be tempered a bit?
Why do you think it is appropriate for a bad driver to pay more for auto insurance and at the same time expect healthy people to pay for sick people? If your auto insurance didn’t increase if you had accidents or speeding tickets, would you drive more carefully??
We will all pay more – count on it.
The pricing regulations in PPACA actually require insurance pricing to be no more than a 1:3 relationship between the youngest, healthiest individual and the oldest, sickest individual – even though insurance companies are pricing in the 1:5 ratio currently.
If the law is not overturned in 2013, many of those young people you are hoping to penalize or tax to subsidize others will simply not pay. They are already overburdened by paying others Social Security and Medicare. There is a growing lack of responsibility in the US – it’s in the 20-somethings who want to spend their money on something else other than health insurance (or their 401K) and it’s in those who don’t take care of their health and expect others to pay for taking care of them, and those who want to be able to wait until they are sick before buying insurance.
So the court interpreted the law. That still does not make it right and I will continue to do everything in my power and right as a citizen of this great nation to change the law. Just as there have been many other laws amended and overturned throughout our history so to shall this one.
How do you see it becoming afordable. Like everything else the government gets involved in it will just get messed up. If you think the govenment kows anything about healthcare you have not had the luxury of using a VA hospital.
Whether you like or hate this law, you can’t have a system where only those who need it are the ones who buy it. This is a logical decision an that point.
Then the government can force me to buy a tricycle, though I am an adult.
You can’t have a system where only those who need tricycles are the ones who buy it. Furthermore, it is quite likely that at some point in the future I may get married and have children, and then I will need a tricycle.
Dude. We are not talking about tricycles. We are talking about life and death and a complicated financial system that must survive to take care of nearly infinite needs of an extremely diverse population of many different income levels. Nobody is going to make you buy a tricycle and you don’t need one to stay alive. It’s people like you who probably have no worries when it comes to access to health care, that take the dabate into the moronic relm and away from practicle solutions. If you don’t buy insurance, you should be peanalized because sooner or later you will fall off your tricycle and have to go to the emergency room and recieve medical attention which you are otherwise unininsured for. Your care would be unfunded without the peanalty. This is the exact system we have now which us the ultimate socialism. Charging YOU for not buying insurance is the only right and fair thing to do.
I was surprised and diappointed by the decision. There are many parts of this law that were never made public that will put the government in control of a major aspect of our lives. Moreover, there will be a huge amount of money sent to hire more government employees, especially in teh IRS, to manage the requirement in teh law. Jobe creation? Well, yes, if you want more government jobs and the attendant cost in place. Where does the money for that come from our pockets, of course. Where will the shortfalls in funding come from? More taxes on us that won’t even make a dent in the potential deficits and borrowing these costs will incur. The president has been consistant with his message to “redistribute wealth” and this is but one step in that direction.
I seems we are on our way out as the most successful and powerful nation in the world. We’ve weakened our economy, defenses and our image around the world. Moreover, the law that leads us in that direction was passed under the most shameful politicking and bribe-filled cajoling that is loaded with political favoratism in the form of waivers for special interst groups. If this is the way our country is to be run from here on, we won’t recognize it in a few years. And, we’ll incur debts we will never be ablt to pay off. Do our politicians really believe that by adding more cost to health insurance for companies that provide it for employees will lead to more job creation in the private sector? More likely it will send more jobs overseas where trhe costs are much less. Anyone watching what is happening in Europe, especially Greece? That’s us not too far from now. I fear we’ll see people fighting in the streets here as more and more of our hard earned money is absorbed by the government that may soon be borrowing more than our GDP coiuld possibly support.
Rusty, You see things with clear eyes. The ramifications of this decision will be manifested in the coming couple of years if it is not repealed after November. This country cannot go on like this for much longer. It is up to the voters to get rid of all these Progressives that rammed this sorry legislation down our throat and repeal it and replace it with a Common Sense solution.
If anyone hasn’t noticed, Obama has done some positive things and things are turning around in this country. He came in on the heels of Bush’s administration that ran things into the ground. Let’s compare what Obama has accomplished in his 4 yrs vs what Bush accomplished in 8 years. Things that make you go hmmmm…
Here are a FEW things!!!
– In his first year the Recovery & Reinvestment Act created a little over 2 MILLION jobs!
– Equal pay for women
– Withdrawal of US troops
– Ended the stop-loss policy that keeps soldiers in Iraq past their enlistment date
– Lowered drug costs for our seniors
– Increased pay and benefits for military employees
– FDA is now regulating tobacco
– Made more loans available to small businesses
– Ended the practice offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource AMERICAN jobs via the new policy to promote in-sourcing and bringing jobs back to US employees
– Reduced/limited salaries of senior White House aides to $100K.
– Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of HIS VERY OWN pocket!
Need I go on?????
What did BUSH do???
– He BANKRUPTED the treasury!
– Entered the office with a criminal record
– Set the all-time record for the largest drop in the history of the stock market.
– Set the record for the most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
– Cut unemployment benefits
– Set the record for the most foreclosures in history in a 12 month period
– He made more amendments to the Constitution than any other president. So, stop complaining about Healthcare being unconstitutional!
Need I go on???? Really????!!!
June 28, 2012 at 12:27 pm
First Agent says:
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Holly, have you been on a cruise for the past year? Do you really think Obama has been doing positive things and turning the country around? By the way, Bush had a lot of help running this country in the ground from Pelosi and Reid who kept spending at record levels, not reigning in Fanny & Freddie who ruined the housing crisis among other things. Your guy Obama signed onto all that legislation. How is it that Obama has a 33% approval rating on the economy now? Does that sound like he is turning it around? This country is in terrible shape and getting worse by the day. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Read my response above. I’ve been awake! BTW, I don’t drink coffee! I don’t need it!
July 2, 2012 at 2:50 pm
MarketMaker says:
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Holly, the last amendment to the Constitution repealed prohibition – before Bush was even born. You get an “F” in civics class, so how can anyone take you seriously?
June 28, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Obama also doubled the deficit in 4 years. 16 trillion in debit. Are you happy with that being the case?? Do you consider this one of Obama’s accomplishments? I certainly don’t!
Seriously! You have to spend money to make money. Everyone knows that! Also, the treasury was ALREADY bankrupt when he took office.
June 28, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Always Amazed says:
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“spend money to make money.” WHAT PLANT ARE YOU ON? Equal pay for women? Again, what planet are YOU on? I think you need to take off those rose colored glasses, Holly. The stock just hit the hopper on the news of Ocare being upheld. Get ready for a long rough ride, this is just the beginning. The USA credit rating was reduced and you still think Obama is a shining star. He governs this country like he’s King and not a president. I hope we give him his walking papers in November. God help us all if we don’t. God knows what else he’ll do without “we the people” votes to ruin this great country.
June 28, 2012 at 1:59 pm
TxLady says:
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Still awaiting your answer Holly. Here’s a few thing Mr Obama has done. Are you better off? Perhaps you are, but the vast majority of Americans are NOT better off under teh Obama Administration. Time for Change.
$3.59 – When Barack Obama entered the White House, the average price of a gallon of gasoline was $1.85. Today, it is$3.59.
22 – It is hard to believe, but today the poverty rate for children living in the United States is a whopping 22 percent.
23 – According to U.S. Representative Betty Sutton, an average of 23 manufacturing facilities permanently shut down in the United States every single day during 2010.
30 – Back in 2007, about 10 percent of all unemployed Americans had been out of work for 52 weeks or longer. Today, that number is above 30 percent.
32 – The amount of money that the federal government gives directly to Americans has increased by 32 percent since Barack Obama entered the White House.
35 – U.S. housing prices are now down a total of 35 percent from the peak of the housing bubble.
40 – The official U.S. unemployment rate has been above 8 percent for 40 months in a row.
42 – According to one survey, 42 percent of all American workers are currently living paycheck to paycheck.
48 – Shockingly, at this point 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low income” or are living in poverty.
49 – Today, an astounding 49.1 percent of all Americans live in a home where at least one person receives benefits from the government.
To answer some of your comments! Housing prices are down due to what happened during the BUSH administration. Remember all of the foreclosures, etc. That bubble popped under his administration. Jobs were being outsourced, remember? As for your comment on the gas situation…when President George W. Bush took office in 2001, gasoline sold for an average of $1.50 per gallon and in the summer of 2008 (which was his last year in office), prices exceeded $4.20. So, don’t talk to me about gas prices! I can challenge every comment above if you REALLY want me to spend the time doing so! Let me know…
If everyone will recall, Obama entered having to TRY and clean up a HUGE mess. You cannot deny that whether it was a Republican or a Democrat, it was a MESS to clean and a difficult job for anyone. I’m not part of the 48% considered low income nor do I receive any sort of income from the government. Lucky for me!
June 28, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Brian says:
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That came about from dem policies of forcing banks to lend to people they should not have lent to.
June 28, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Random says:
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Holly, I’m sorry but you don’t know what you are talking about and at this point I don’t think your comments can be taken seriously.
The recession we are in is because of “progressive” policies. It started during the Carter Administation when the gov’t forced banks to make sub-prime loans (loans to people who could not affored them).
Bush wasn’t the best president, I have no problems stating that, but Obama is about 10 times worse.
Look at the economy stats during the Reagan years – best period of economic prosperity. Maybe the gov’t can learn a few things.
I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. I am going to enjoy this next election. Remember this day and remember this – Obama will win the 2012 election! I’m done posting until then… I will be back to post an “I TOLD YOU SO” when it is announced.
June 28, 2012 at 4:59 pm
john says:
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Holly,
You are just out there and not seeing reality. I don’t know about you but most of the people in this country are really struggling to make ends meet. We are in a lot worse shape than we were 4 years ago. Makes Carter’s catastrophe of a presidency look like a huge success. Bush was way too absorbed in the terorism stuff and messed up alot of stuff, but really, to say Obama fixed anything is insane.
You’re right you don’t know about me! I am not struggling to make ends meet. I know how to live WITHIN my budget! I don’t need a reality check. This country is moving in the right direction under Obama’s leadership. To complain is pure ignorance. Have you forgotten the mess that he walked into????!!! Bottom line, Bush created this HUGE mess and to expect for someone to fix it quickly is absoluately ridiculous. You’re delusional. Obama 2012! It’s sad that people are arguing over which party they belong to, etc. Whatever happened to having the best person for the job in office. Obama was the best choice in 2008 and will be the best choice again in 2012. Unlike Romney, he has never waivered on his beliefs or what he has promised the American people. Romney has a history of voting one way and then changing it up. Just like a politician! Obama has been trying to make good on what he promised when he campaigned and the story has not changed. OBAMA2012!!!! Carter’s presidency was a fail. Imagine what shape we would be in if he had to try to clean up Bush’s mess!
It’s not law to have auto insurance. Driving is a priviledge. You aren’t forced to drive, but if you do, you need to have insurance. THis is much different.
Then, you are required to have insurance. In your own words, durrr! Driving is a priviledge because in this day and age the poor barely can afford transportation, let alone insurance! Being rich is a priviledge and so is the ability to afford private insurance. Be careful how you throw around the word priviledge and last time I checked…it’s “DUH” not “DURRR” as the DURRR is not even in the dictionary!
Holly all that is mandated with mandatory auto insurance is THIRD Party LIABILITY. I do not have to and am not required by the state to cover my vehicle (myself) which is what this legislation does.
Mandatory Auto insurance is also required by the states NOT the federal government! The last statistics I saw say that 30% of all drivers are still uninsured.
June 28, 2012 at 12:22 pm
julio says:
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in one you are protecting the public from your wrongdoing if at fault, in the other you are only harming yourself. Of course this does not take into account the unpaid medical expense if you enter a hospital through the ER. then we all get to particate.
Amazed, I hope you and FFA stay safe in Chicago. I understand it is close to anarchy in the streets there with the thugs running around shooting people. What is the wonderful Emanuel doing about cracking down on the gangs?
D, there are millions of Americans who buy insurance who don’t need it (but may in the future). The proportion of uninsured is not a large as you think it is.
Thanks, Random for your brillian argument and excellent use of facts.
30 million is not a large number? Really? I guess when you are talking proportions maybe your argument holds water for about 30 seconds. The average cost of health care per person in the US is about $7200 and we have 30 million uninsured. The average cost, per person, for health care in Canada, England, Australia, Germany, France is about $3300 and virtually 100% of their population has no worries when it comes to health care access. Maybe you were thinking about those countries when you responded to my post.
Random, In a country of 320 million, the proportion of uninsured is somewhat less than 10%. However, the Congress and this President just had to ram this down our throat so the entire country can suffer the consequences. 20 new taxes enforced by the IRS, rationed care, exchanges offering Medicaid coverage for all and they wonder why we aren’t happy about what came down. We will make our voices heard in November.
So you naysayers are of the mindset that you should not be forced to buy healthcare insurance and that you should be able to walk into any hospital uninsured and receive medical treatment. That is your stance on this?
I would love to hear your solutions to this problem or maybe you don’t have a solution and you are good with the status quo. You expect me to continue to subsidize your uninsured self when you need help.
Really????
Scottsdaleslim – most of us “naysayers” believe that we should be trying to make healthcare more affordable. If it were, insurance would not be needed. This whole issue stems from the high costs that doctors and hospitals charge; and most importantly the governments permittance of illegals and non-workers to benefit without paying into the system.
I strongly believe that you should pay for the treatment you get. If you can’t pay, no treatment. It may sound harsh, but it is the only way we can salvage this mess.
If the government weren’t corrupt and wasteful, I might agree with this bill. But the truth is… they don’t care at all about you. They just want to control you and your money.
You are walking down the street and a car losing control and hits you. You are bleeding, unconscious, and need immediate medical attention or you will die. The ambulance shows up. Hmmm, does he have health insurance? they ask. Before we treat him and take him to the emergency room, let’s root through his wallet to see if he has a health insurance card. Not carrying a health insurance card? Oh well, sorry for you. Or, oh yes, he has a health insurance card. But before we treat him, let’s call the number on the back of the card to see if the coverag eis still valid, whether he has enough benefits left to cover him. And if he has a co-payment. Let’s sift through his wallet to see if he has enough to cover the co-payment.
I think you took what I said too far out of context TOPOV – as most libs do.
Obviously emergency care is needed. But you still need to pay. After treatment is given you should be required to pay monthly payments or something along those lines. You shouldn’t be able to get treatment for free – while others have to.
To clarify… if it is not an emergency (like cancer) – and you can’t pay – no treatment.
June 28, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Holly says:
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There is no reason for anyone to have to forego care because they are poor. So, you’re of the mindset that poor people should just be left to die! Really? I’m not anywhere near poor, but I could NEVER refuse care based on money. That’s heartless! You do not have to be a Republican or a Democrat to know that!
June 28, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Bob says:
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It was not that long ago in this country that if you did not have the ability to pay you went to the county hospital and received necessary treatment. If it was an emergency then you were transported to the nearest facility stabalized and then transfered to county. Now with medicare a hospital must treat everyone if they are going to accept medicare patients. Sorry but if I have made the decision to financially take care of myself and my family I should not have to wait in line behind a bunch of folks that are going to do nothing but increase my bill because they can not pay. This is outrageous, medical care is not a right and sometimes life is not fair.
nobama-2012
June 29, 2012 at 9:06 am
BWM says:
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Responding to Bob’s comment: OK, so people used to go to county facilities — but who do you think was actually footing the cost of that? Gee… maybe it was subsidized by the fees charged to other patients? I fail to see how what you’re describing is any different from what you’re railing against.
June 28, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Jill says:
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This scenario could play out here in years to come without an affordable health care law. Just last month, one of my coworkers had a relative who lives in Bulgaria and fell ill while walking in a major downtown area. He works and makes a living there. Emergency medical came to the scene and did some assessment but did not take him to a hospital since he did not have insurance (most don’t). He later died at home that week for lack of treatment for a heart attack.
That would be an abnormality. Don’t talk about crap you don’t know. My father just died in a similar circumstance to what you’re talking about so I know the way an emergency is treated with the hospital.
He survived for a couple weeks, and he was in the hospital that whole time. And they did take him to the hospital at the first signs. They didn’t even check into his insurance numbers until we were close to leaving. For all they knew he didn’t have insurance.
You are full of crap.
June 28, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Bob says:
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And to give another example: My uncle had a heart attack in his 40’s.
He was an independant architect. He did not have insurance. My father helped him with the bill later on.
He had a much more mild heart attack and had come in saying he just had mild chest pains. But they kept him in the hospital, put in a stent, and made sure he was ok before releasing him.
Again: You’re full of crap.
June 29, 2012 at 10:12 am
D says:
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The early part of Obama’s attempt to overhaul the system was to confront hospitals and other providers about the costs they pass on to insurance companies. But, both parties in congress wilted under that challenge and the President was forced to use a more centrist approach and adopted Romny’s MA model. Basically when it came time to confront the doctors and hospitals and their outrageous charging habits created by years of passing on inflated charges to insurance companies, nobody had the guts to follow through.
So, Random, Alan Grayson is correct when he says the Republican plan is, “Don’t get sick. And, if you get sick, die quickly.” That’s not the America I wish to live in. I think “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” says it all. Life – to live. In order to live, one needs to be healthy. In order to be healthy, one must receive care, both preventative and reactive. This bill does that. And, it’s Constitutional. Standing O for The President and The Supreme Court. The right is not the only energized side going into November. If he got this done, what else can he accomplish in 4 years? He’s righting a lot of wrongs and is moving this country in a positive direction. Many out there will disagree, and that’s okay. That’s what makes this country so great. We can disagree and take it to the polls. See you there!
Apparently Planet, you didn’t note that Obamacare puts in the bureaucrat committees aka Death Panels which will rule out needed procedures for seniors and instead will give them end of life counseling. Sorry seniors, no hip replacement, heart stints or any other treatment because your life is over and you are no longer a productive citizen. Even though you paid into Social Security your whole life and paid the Medicare premiums, you don’t deserve treatment. This system will quickly devolve into what Great Britain has now. That is legalized euthanasia where 130,000 Brits are put on the pathway to death. This is not exactly a humane way to treat the greatest generation, is it?
There are no death panels. That’s absolute Fox News Sarah Palinism garbage. But, be afraid. That’s the point. First Agent, I think you are a pretty smart person. Don’t fall for this one, it’s not true. Have you read the bill? I actually did.
July 6, 2012 at 4:12 pm
First Agent says:
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So Planet, if you think Allan Grayson was correct in his condemnation of the Republican plan, why didn’t the good people of his district vote him back in? As I recall, he lost by a fairly big margin. The Republican plan was never considered by the majority in Congress and Nancy & Harry & Obama were determined to ram their plan down our throats anyway they could. Even at that, with large majorities in the House & Senate with threats, kickbacks, not reading the bill before voting on it, they barely got it passed. Why do you think the Democrats took such a shellacking in the mid terms? Why do you think the House changed hands? Now, it is up to the people to change out the Senate and the Presidency so we can get something done that makes sense and is much more affordable than this 20 new tax Progressive nightmare.
You as an american should not be forced to buy anything you dont want – cant afford. This is not affordable. This will tax everyong for years to come right out of any incentive to get ahead – to get a job. I will not hire another full time person – ever. I will have no incentive to grow my business other then to pay more taxxes to cover this bill.
Scott Walker – The WHite House is calling you!
Obama may have skated past this decision, but it will only serve to further mobilize Americans to vote him out in November along with his minions in the House & Senate. Romney renewed his pledge to repeal this beast and we will hold him to it when he is elected. Romney will also be able to nominate probably 3 new Supreme Court Justices and let’s hope he does better than John Roberts next time. I just wonder if there are any qualified Conservative Judges out there who won’t cave to Progressivism like Roberts did.
There is no insurance mandate in Romney’s plan. Obama may have used it, but Romney by no means stamped off on the changes.
Two plans regarding health insurance are not the same just because they both involve health care reform.
And just because Obama claims his health care reform was made from Romney’s doesn’t make it true. As soon as Romney says “no, I had nothing to do with your plan” and he also didn’t vote for it, well then, the two plans are clearly different, and Romney didn’t support it at all from day one.
Don’t act like a kid trying to say how everything is the same. It’s not.
In July 2009, Mitt Romney called on President Obama to require Americans to buy insurance as part of his health care plan, using “tax penalties” as a backstop — in other words, the individual mandate that Republicans virulently oppose.
In a USA Today op-ed titled “Mr. President, what’s the rush?,” which is also available on MittRomneyCentral.com, Romney urged Obama to “learn a thing or two about health care reform” from his Massachusetts plan that contained the same policy, and touted it as effective.
“First, we established incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance,” Romney wrote. “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages ‘free riders’ to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others.”
During a March 2006 news conference, in which then-Gov. Romney said, “With regards to the individual mandate, the individual responsibility program that I proposed, I was very pleased that the compromise between the two houses includes the personal responsibility mandate.” In a television clip of the event, Mr. Romney called the Massachusetts requirement that people buy health-care coverage “essential for bringing the health care costs down for everyone and getting everyone the health insurance they need.”
In April 2006 when the bill passed the Massachusetts legislature’s conference committee, Mr. Romney addressed the employer mandate that penalized some companies for not offering health insurance, saying such a penalty is “It is a fee, it’s an assessment,” he said. He added that the fee was being assessed on those who were “abusing the free care pool.”
There is video footage from 2006 if you care to fact-check.
Planet: People say what they say, and saying a form of a tax penalty is not the same as a mandate.
I’m sorry, it’s just not. A $750 fee is not a tax penalty. Romney likely was referring to a tax bracket system with incentives and of the sorts. Usually, when republicans talk about a tax system it include INCENTIVES as well as fees.
Regardless: Does Romney’s system include a mandate? I don’t care about anything else you say as you don’t have relevant facts to the situation. What you said was slightly true. But if it was Romney’s idea: WHY IS IT NOT IN ROMNEY’S PLAN?
Focus kid. Focus.
June 29, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Bob says:
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Well I’ll keep it shorter since you’ll question everything that does not matter in my last comment:
A tax penalty system is not a mandate. Just because a Justice Judge says it is does not make it so.
June 29, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Captain Planet says:
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Kid? No, actually not. I wish, I miss those days. My main point is, Romney was for it before he was against it. Just like everything else that comes out of his mouth because, as he said, “I’m running for office for Pete’s sake.”
June 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Bob says:
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My main point: Romney’s plan doesn’t have the mandate in it.
Your main point is moot. If he was for it before he was against it doesn’t matter. People change their minds all the time.
What they DO do matters, not what they think about doing.
The fact that you have not figured out this simple fact makes me think you are lying about your age.
So the main point that matters: Romney is against a mandate. Romney’s plan didn’t put in a mandate. Claiming that Romney’s plan being in place in Massachussets makes him somehow two faced, is my friend, a blatant misleading comment or a twisted one at best.
June 29, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Bob says:
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But if you do want to go on the he was before it before he was against it argument:
Obama was against gay marriage before he was for it. Now he’s going to make measures to pursue it.
So do you think he changed his mind? Or is he buying the gay vote and he’s misleading people by making such a statement? There is more evidence of Obama being the type of guy who would do that than Romney. Yet you are pissed off at Romney for this, rather than looking at his policies.
So the heck what, if they change their mind to buy voters? Am I calling Obama sleazy for changing his mind? No. I’m calling him bad for his policies. You’re more mad that Romney may have changed his mind than you are happy that he put in a policy like Obama’s (I’m assuming that you do believe that their plans are similar, this is from your point of view which I don’t believe it myself).
If you are going to have a logic: Be consistent.
June 29, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Captain Planet says:
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Isn’t this a mandate? Seems to be to me. It uses the word:
Hey Planet, I don’t care if it was Romney’s Plan, Obama/Pelosi/Reid’s plan or the Tides Foundation’s plan. They are all equally bad. The difference between Romney and Obama is that he learned something about government controlled Healthcare and realized it was inherently bad and now pledges to do something about it. Obama will never learn and sticks to his ideology. From reports I have seen, Romneycare has been a disaster in Massachusetts and is generating a sizable deficit in that state. Hello! Wake up and smell the coffee. These things don’t work and bankrupt states and this nation.
June 29, 2012 at 4:37 pm
Bob says:
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I just have to point something out:
I’ll cave on the mandate. I won’t cave on these being different plans. The individual mandate under Obama works nothing like the link you provided.
If it was based off of Romney’s it resembles it not. Have you looked at the fee structure in Obama’s mandate plan? It is not as detailed as this.
Out of the two Romney’s is better. So again: You’re problem with Romney is that he doesn’t like Obama’s? Even if I’m wrong on the mandate issue, Romney takes issue with the fact that his plan is good Obama’s is bad.
June 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Bob says:
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And wait a second…How did I not realize that states choosing mandates actually is different than Federal.
Must be because my dad died recently.
Romney’s plan is the best for another reason: It allows other options to exist. Once you have a federal plan multiple states cannot have different methods.
Example and case in point: Worker’s comp insurance being monopolistic. Most states that were switched away from it. If it were federal, no one would be able to show in practice that something was better than another way. The 50 states are 50 states for a reason.
Federal law is absurd.
June 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Holly says:
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Romney is going to uphold it IF he wins against Obama. Either way, the plan will be upheld! Obama2012!
Bob, I actually celebrate the many accomplishments our current President has achieved. Of course he’s playing politics. That’s what politicians do. I would be willing to bet, though I don’t know for certain, Obama has been fine with the LBGT movement for some time and never voiced it because supporting it has been, frankly, bad politics up until now. President Obama has not Mitt-flopped on just about every single issue like Romney has. I encourage you to check out the above linked website.
No sir, I am not lying about my age. And, I do like to have the conversation. First Agent and I have them out here quite a bit. We may have agreed once or twice, but it’s still good. It’s beneficial to have perspective. At least I think so.
Have a good weekend, Bob. Hopefully it starts sooner than later, right?
Bob, sorry about your dad, I just read that in your post.
July 2, 2012 at 2:56 pm
MarketMaker says:
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BS – ObamaCare is HillaryCare. It’s been on the shelf since 1994 at the DNC. The community organizer didn’t have the time nor the finances to write this bill while he was running for president. It was complete nad waiting for a Democrat Majority to be shoved down our throats.
Planet, had our politicians been listening to the American People instead of trying to ram something through Congress and down our throats, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I really don’t care if it was a RINO, Hilary Clinton, Ted Kennedy or Barack Obama doing the proposing on Healthcare. The law passed is bad on so many levels, it is untenable and will lead to disastrous consequences for this country.
July 2, 2012 at 5:09 pm
MarketMaker says:
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Heritage’s plan focused on CDHPs – at the time MSA plans. It didn’t rename the formerly known as “Health Insurance Purchasing Cooperatives” to “Exchange” which is tentacle of singlepayer. This plan has Ira Magaziner’s fingerprints all over it. The individual mandate they stole. The rest is HillaryCare.
June 28, 2012 at 11:58 am
Little Frog says:
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The mandate was upheld as a tax and not under the Commerce clause. But it was not passed as a tax. It was passed as a mandate & penalty so it should have been struck down pending Congressional reauthorization; but it was upheld.
If we must go this way,why can’t this whole thing just be replaced with Flexible Spending Accounts.
We are living in Bizzaro World.
The solution, as always, is to vote the SOB’s that wrote this monstrous attack on the average American’s pocketbook out of office. Put your vote where your mouth is and VOTE in November!!
I am totally fed up with decisions being made by judges and politcians that affect me. So far, this Administration has done everything I am opposed to. The American people need to vote on these important issues, not have a few people make decisions that will impact the entire nation.
Random- I agree that if you as an adult willfully shirk your responsibility to buy healthcare and then find you need it but can’t pay for it, you get no service.
I am sure news of the deaths of untreated because they chose not to buy would make more people take note. As an able bodied adult, people need to do the responsible thing. Do I like government imposing that, NO. Unfortunately without the voice of government, people would continue to work the system.
With respects to comments about illegals, I say give all of them a social security number with a marker defining them as not citizens. Allow them to work here and pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for at least five years with no recognition that they have paid anything into the system until the five years are up. At that point, they could apply for citizenship and and any payments going forward would accrue benefits for them. What we have to stop is employers paying people under the table and immigrants taking other people’s social security numbers.
Well we now know that the Constitution and Biii Of Rights are on their last legs. This just GREECES(LOL) the skids.
Since they teach Darwinism in school(Survival and adaption and evolution of the fittest) let the same go for insurance.
1. Health Insurance is the most important coverage. Without your health, you become a burden on society. However, you can choose to be irresponsible though not at the expense of responsible people.
2. Life insurance is second since if you are health and a productive member of society, your family relies on you for its survival and well-being.
3. Property insurance is third, because if you are healthy, living and productive, your family may need the shelter and clothing you provide protected.
4. Liability is least important since life is a risk. If you cause somebody harm that does not have 1, 2 and 3, that’s their problem. Let them suffer.
Unfortuantely, our system requires these in reverse order. Attornies and politicians have created solutions to problems that never existed if people had been personally responsible.
Wayne, Have fun paying for it now that your employer is not required to give it to you. They only have to pay a fine for each employee they do not cover. Hope you find a good policy written by the government oh, and I hope you like it because you will not be able to change it. Your employer, with the savings he obtains from cancelling your policy will probably buy a supplement to his crappy health plan that we all have, probably just like a medicare sup. He will get really good care.
Gov Walker in Wisconsin had not yet begun to implement the law. Now that the law was upheld, he has said he still will not begin to implement the law. I wonder, does he have the legal authority to do that?
Yet another step for the administration of entitlement. Those of us who pay support those who will now rely EVEN MORE on the government dole. The system is broker and SCOTUS’s ruling is another nail in the coffin of independence and self-reliance. No longer the America I remember.
Well, time to quit my job and become a leach on society. Just send me your hard earned dollars directly you me. Cant think of anything more un American then OBama. Lets let China forclose on the huhe debt that OBama racked up to them and go straight to Commi.
Thank you for increase drasticlly the amount of leaches on the system.
We have one major underlying problem in this great country. Greed! There is nothing wrong with working hard and striving to “better ones self,” but when that “betterment” comes at the “expense of others” rather than the “benefit of others” – then I think we have a serious ethical problem.
Yes. YOU are the serious problem. What you say: “benefit of others” is nothing more than a dummying down of our society. What you’re saying is: “Bring DOWN those who have EARNED success. Let those who are down, stay down.” Why strive for success…let someone else give you a piece of their pie. After all, the government- aka taxpayer dollars from hard working people-will make sure that you don’t even try to bake one!
One of the other problems in this great country is that we have a generation that is already dumbed down. The ability to read and understand a concept and the point being made is at an all time low.
SteveB, I think you are onto something. We have had several decades of SEIU infested public schools not teaching history or much of anything and kids are not being taught how to think critically. They are fed liberal propoganda and told they are entitled. The ones who do go to college get another big dose of it from liberal professors. By the time they get out, they are not equipped to do anything with their liberal arts degrees. Anyone who has had a good course of Econ 101 knows that the Progressive Socialist system does not and has not worked anywhere in the world.
First Agent – It has been a pleasure reading your posts, and not because we are on the same wavelength, but because of your clear thinking and process. I am saddened by the hyper emotion that this has evoked as some of the posts speak for themselves. We all need to be calm in order to solve any issue. As a note: We are going to find this program is the most tax ladened government program we have ever seen. There are more taxes in this program than I can even name. It is incredible how the government can still think they are the answer to all of our problems – contrary to history.
June 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm
First Agent says:
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Thank you SteveB. I am an old dude, but still have a few brain cells to express my opinion. I also have a degree in Economics. When I was in school, the professors were not like they are now. We studied every economic system tried in every part of the world. They were careful to explain what each system was about. There is no perfect economic system, but Capitalism got the highest grades and Socialism, Communism, Marxism got the worst grades because they stifle freedom and innovation and were utter failures everywhere they have been tried. We also studied Keynes who promotes spending, priming the pump to achieve prosperity. That has proven to be a total failure as well and our politicians who believe it keep trying to spend their way to prosperity. Our national debt is now $16 Trillion. How is that working out for us?
June 28, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Wayne says:
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Since the mandate is now a tax, that portion of the premium I pay for health insurance is a tax. I guess that means my tax return will increase since I will have this tax of over $4000 already paid. It makes it advantageous for me to buy a better policy since the amount I pay will be counted as a tax.
Wayne, You didnt understand the ruling. The court did nothing to the tax code. You will not be able to write off your cost of insurance. LOL! Don’t get too exited yet. You will have to pay the whole cost and unable to write off any of your healthcare including the cost of your 26 year old failure to launch liberal kid.
Always, Flipside is looking at everything with rose colored glasses. He probably has been spending his time downloading apps on his ipad instead of paying attention to world news and what is going on in Europe. Great Britain is now euthenizing senior citizens at the rate of 130,000 each year. They put them on the pathway to death and provide no treatment at all. How is that for a Healthcare system? It will be much the same here in a few years unless this piece of trash is repealed.
SCOTUS – “Obamacare” – The Largest Tax Increase in the History of the USA! Good Job Democrats in Congress, now you have to defend it! You can not blame Bush for this one! See you in November!
The mandate was defined as a tax. The commerce clause was upheld by Roberts. By defining the mandate as a tax, it precludes the unconstitutionality of the mandate had it been considered within the commerce clause. Roberts made an objective ruling. I can’t argue with that. But, yes, we’re heading down a path to Socialism. We can stop this progression in it’s tracks- GET OUT THERE AND VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
I do not think the democratss understand that everyone of us will have to pay for our own healthcare now. Our boss told me today after a few in the office were saying that they were happy about the ruling, That he could not wait to just pay the fine for each employee which equals about 1 or 2 months premiums and make us all pay for our own coverage through one of the new insurance exchanges. He had previously paid all of our cost of health insurance. He stated now he has cover to cancel that policy and save over 120K a year in health insurance premiums. Yikes! Now I know why some small business owners are happy.
Previous to this ruling, the estimates of 30-40% of small business owners said they would cancel their Group Health if Obamacare stayed. Now, it will be 60-70% and their employees will be thrown into the exchanges for Medicaid like coverage. I hope these employees enjoy their new coverage and paying for it themselves. They just got a new burden added by this ruling.
I am thrilled as an insurance agent that this passed “muster”! My daughter who just graduated college in May without a job can remain insured; those who choose to be uninsured will be taxed to pay for their care; as it should be , in my opinion!
Jay, Do you pay for coverage or do you have a good job with benefits? If so! You now will have to pay for your coverage. Your employer will cancel their policy a pay a one time fine for doing so. Now you will have the choice of which plan that YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR!
We all eat food,and its good for you. Does that mean the government can create a new tax that I have to pay so they can feed me spinach, I hate spinach, but because they think it is good for me and it will lower the cost for spinach for someone else who likes it. Is it right for the Government to make me eat spinach and then pay a tax so others who like it get it cheaper? Hmmmmm………
Somehow I just dont think this was a win for Obama politically!
I don’t know, Sarah. But, if you don’t watch what you eat, you may develop a disease. This disease may have killed you, but thanks to no pre-existing conditions and no lifetime limits, you are still alive after a successful operation and free to go about eating whatever you would like to eat. Oh, and if you’d like to, you can be pre-screened for that disease as part of the free preventative care you are now granted to pursue at your leisure. This is a good thing. The exchanges between the states are going to reduce costs, too. My company isn’t cancelling any coverage. That’s a scare tactic. I don’t see that being as full-blown as Fox and others are making it out to be.
Food is more medically necessary than Sandra Fluke’s birth control pills are. With this ruling, the “health police” will be taxing all of your supposed “bad” behaviors, and you’ll be getting an EOB for toilet paper, dental floss and the premanufactured chicken dinner because it was cooked in non-transfat oil. You’ll swipe your healthcare card at the supermarket, and it’ll count as a covered expense on your government healthcare plan. Also, to avoid any healthcare penalty, you’ll have to bootleg cigars, cigarettes, alcohol and BBQ to avoid the soon-to-be-implemented food police division of the ATF.
No way will they do premanufactured chicken dinners. Do you have any idea what goes into the feed they fatten the chicken up with? Not to mention, the amount of high fructose corn syrup in premanned food? Too much tax comes in from cigars, cigarettes, and alcohol. Those are safe. I’m sure glad I don’t live in that scary world you are describing.
I did a double take Market when you were talking about toilet paper and swiping in the next sentence. I agree that we will have the Food Police if we keep the Progressives in charge in November. Michelle started it with the school kids and them eating Broccoli and Carrots in school and one of the SEIU teachers confiscated a perfectly good lunch from a student because it didn’t fit their definition. These people all have to go. I am sick of them trying to tell America what to do.
Anyone see the EBC Wellfare, Food Stamp ads running on TV. Talking about how there is nothing wrong with being on food stamps and its ok go ahead have a party with all of your older friends and join the ranks of americans enjoying the food stamp program.
I thought this was supposed to be the greatest generation. If so Obama got them wrong with this add. I was taught by this generation that taking a hand out was disgraceful and you should work hard and pay your bills and support your own family, not take wellfare!
Another area where Obama got it wrong. Time for Hoping for a real Change back to what we once had!
Agreed. Obama has created an “entitlement” society. People are graduating college and expect to earn 100K right out of the shoot instead of taking jobs lower on the totem pole and working their way up the ranks like everyone else did. I ME MINE. The TV adds for Welfare is a disgrace for this country. Granted there are a lot of people out of work right now – but Obama seems to think that the private sector is doing just fine. What Planet in God’s Universe is he on? How man illegals are on Welfare? I bet there are a lot of them an we tax payers are fitting the bill on that one as well. And speaking of companies dropping healthcare, AT&T stated a long time ago this was exactly what they were going to do it Obama care was upheld. Time will tell.
This blog will sent the all time record for IJ for comments. I agree Amazed. These failure to launch college graduates can stay on their parents policy til 26, go to the OWS marches and play on their iphones to their hearts content because they cannot find a job and will not even look after a while. Who is going to pay their $200,000 college loan? Some are now disillusioned because they thought they could just start right out with a high paying job and it isn’t there. If they don’t have Daddy’s business to move into, they will just languish and sap off the system.
Obama “created” an entitlement society. Really? You are giving him way too much credit! Wow! Bush reduced the unemployment benefits and now you’re blaming Obama.
Entitlement society came about before Obama. It’s when sports teams and little leagues no longer keeps score, and everyone gets a trophy. Grades are assigned for subjective creativity instead of rote knowledge – we have created a generation of narcissists. They know how to stretch a condom on a banana, but they don’t know how to balance their own checkbook, or that they need to start investing for retirement as soon as they start working. And, yes, they feel they deserve $100k straight out of school, but they have no drive to earn it.
We have only to blame ourselves for electing such an idiot as Obama! Maybe in November we will understand the consequences of our votes for President and Senate and House of reps! WE HAVE GOTTEN WHAT WE DESERVE!
DO YOUR RESEARCH ON ISSUES! Make sure you do not vote because of the skin color, gender, style or ability to give a speach! Vote next time for the person who will lead us away from Socialism and financial destruction! THIS WILL BE THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIVES IN NOVEMBER!
The right to PERSONAL PROPERTY! Roberts, in his miniscule cerebral condition, has just opened the door to Government sponsored RAPE of the American people. In his decision he wrote, using Brocolli and transportation in his analogy to rationalize his confusion, to the governments right to tax users. His ramblings should be looked at under the guidelines of DSMIII, and then his continiued tenure in his exalted position can be challenged through mental incompetence.
Well, let me see- Social Security a failure from a government management standpoint.
The post Office- essentially broke.
Job market- worse than ever
Wars, lets see- He did not pull out of Irag, Escalated Afganhistan and help start a third with Syria. Not to mention alienate Israel.
close Guantanamo in a year- Ha, nope
Transparency in his admin- Lie
Medicare and Medicaid- a mess and going to get worse. By the way, my brother (An American citizen) had three back operations and could not get a release from a doctor even if he could go back to work filed for disability. It took three years and he had no support in between (except me). He went down to apply for medicaid at my encouragement and was turned down because he was 1.) a male, 2.) 40 years old 3.) he was white and 4.) did not have a bunch of illegitimate children. The illegal alien at the counter next to him got $500.00 in emergency assistance and moved to the head of the medicaid line because he had listed several children (also illegal aliens). By the way the children live in Mexico.
As far as I am concerned Obummer has done nothing but send this country down the path of bankruptcy and socialism. If I were giving him a performance review I would skip the review and fire him.
You know what Sargent? Social Security was not a failure and was solvent until LBJ got his grubby paws on it and moved it into the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty and Great Society entitlement programs which continue to be a burden on this country. To add insult to injury, Al Gore cast the deciding vote to tax Social Security benefits. I agree with your major points. We have to make sure we send the Messiah back to Chicago in November.
I agree, three years and this is what you have to show for your time on the job? If this was the case with any of us in the private sector, we’d have been terminated long before this for failure to perform our job duties at a competent level.
Mr. Obama has been given so many chances to do well, a congress with a large majority of his party, and yet what we get is a litany of blame, and no progress. Whining, crying and pitching a fit, all while living large on the taxpayer dime. Time to add Mr Obama and his White House staffers to the unemployment line.
We give our performance review with our vote, let’s all do so in November and give him an unacceptable and move on.
Austerity measures coming our way! In 10 years if our democracy makes it that far. We will not be able to sell our treasury bonds and the debt bubble will burst resulting in run away hyper inflation and a significant financial depression. The ruling today if not reversed, the promoting of wellfare benefits of food stamps will cause a rapid acceleration of these events. This financial catastrophe will happen very soon and most definately in our life time and most certainly in our childrens. SHAME ON US!
Sarah, These Progressives just don’t realize there is nothing left in the till. We already are $16 Trillion in debt and Obamacare will add $2.5 Trillion more if implemented. I can see runaway inflation in the near future since we are monitizing our debt and the printing presses run 24/7. Zimbabwe is the most recent example of money being worthless. The country should be ashamed at electing such worthless leaders for the past 40 years except Ronnie who was a real leader. The homos who gave his painting the finger in the White House should all be jailed.
“Homos”? Seriously? You are better than that. That type of rhetoric doesn’t belong on this post, no matter how angry you are. They are practicing freedom of speech. Just like Rush calling Michelle “Moo-chelle” and all of the other wonderfully racist commentary that comes out of his pill-popping pie hole.
You are right Planet. I am very angry at our first Gay President inviting this trash into the White House so they can give the finger to the painting of the greatest President of the 20th Century. The White House and all the leaders that came before should have been respected even if the people that go through there don’t agree with their policies or Presidency. Any respectful person would never have done that. That wasn’t free speech, it was an obscene gesture and should not be condoned by you or any of your liberal friends. It is shameful behavior.
I don’t agree with it, First Agent. But, it is a form of free speech, just a fact. I don’t think it was right, either. Goes against the Golden Rule. Shameful behavior indeed.
June 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm
First Agent says:
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Planet, This White House will need a thorough fumigation in January, new paint, change out the muslim drapes (if you have noticed). When Slick Willy left, he garbaged the whole computer system and destroyed all hard drives. I am sure there will not be a hard drive on the premises when all these minions and Czars leave the premises. They certainly don’t want anyone to know what they were up to for 4 years.
June 28, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Dear Random: You are right jail time would be appropriate and not the county jail.
First Agent: You are also correct concerning Social Security. Originally, I believe the money that was placed in Social Security was to be in an irrevocable trust to be used only for Social Security purposes. Then LBJ got ahold of it and moved it to the general and used it to fund whatever the Democrats wanted.They issued government IOUs to “cover any shortfall”. Also, let us not forget that Bill Clinton balanced the budget by taking money from Social Security and issuing government IOUs. If private business did that the officers would all be in jail for robbing a pension fund.They would not be in the county jail either.
You are right Sargent. FDR promised Social Security would always be in a separate fund and not to be touched by the government to pay for anything else. It would still be solvent except for Progressive Democrats and RINO’s who stole the money. LBJ should have been put in jail for that stunt, but he was powerful enough to ram it through, much like Obamacare was this time. It is time that the folks dismiss all these people. November can’t come soon enough.
It seems to me that there are things we are all forgetting. Regardless of where you stand politically, I doubt that anyone here believes that health care should be an option only for those who can afford it. Yes, it is too expensive and much still needs to be done to address this issue. And while there may be some who are going without insurance by choice, I have to believe that many people are making that choice based on other need such as food and shelter and hoping that they are lucky enough not to need it. I have known people who have lost that bet–losing their homes and assets because of unanticipated medical bills; I even know of one man who lost his life after the company where we worked shut down, no COBRA coverage was available and with his pre-existing condition, premiums were higher than the unemployment compensation he was receiving. He found a new job after a year, but before the 3 month waiting period for insurance was up his liver failed and no hospital would touch him without insurance or a $250,000 cash deposit up front for the needed liver transplant. He didn’t have it and he died.
These weren’t deadbeats or losers but rather a small business owner and a man who had worked all his life until the economic downturn left him without a job. While I respect that there are those who chose not to pay for health care because they are young or healthy I know that they may not understand the risk they are taking.
I have a friend who is 85 and whose father was a doctor back during the days of the depression. She reminds me that things were not always like this and that physicians and hospitals and medical workers were compassionate and often provided care even when individuals could not pay everything they owed. Unfortunately, those days appear to be gone. We have come to rely on the government to provide for those who can’t because we are too busy many times with our own lives and needs.
There is no easy solution. I do hope that in time the results are better and more positive than many believe they will be right now. This article on the Massachusetts health care initiative on which the national legislation is patterned gives me some hope. Perhaps it will for you as well. (link below)
I just saw a segment on California. Looks like the City of Stockton is filing for bankruptcy and will be the largest city bankruptcy in history. In addition to that the news station said that another 20% of California cities could go BK in the next 6 to 12 months. In addition the State of California has a $15Billion dollar budget deficit, the largest by far in the US. So what does California have in common with the Federal government?
* A spend spend, spend, borrow more money and spend again budget plan. I find it interesting that California’s budget deficit is $15 Billion. The US deficit $15 Trillion. The only difference- The zeros.
* liberal, if any, immigration laws which is a huge drain on the taxpayer and the state. llegals in California get their kids healthcare, a free education, welfare and medicaid benefits as well as the adults. The parents also get a drivers license and do not have to pay taxes. When they do file they do so on a ITIN and list more children than they have, commit fraud and walk away with a huge refund check. They ge paid to be illegal. Just like Obama who has done nothing but encourage illegal immigration with his recent decision.
* the state cow tows to unions just like Obama. The state unions end up with huge pension liabilities and free healthcare for life.
It is time to find new management- vote in November
Sargent, Stockton is just the first example of cities that are going belly up in California. More are on the brink. They are paying the piper for government largesse now. Is it any wonder that businesses are fleeing that state right and left? Their governments answer is to continue to raise taxes. Gee, I wonder if that will solve their problem.
50% of the population currently pays no taxes. What makes the government think that this $750 “tax” will be paid by the people who cannot afford healthcare? If they aren’t paying taxes currently, then they certainly cannot pay taxes in the future. What’s more astonishing is the law prevents the IRS from taking criminal action against those that do not pay the tax. So that $750 tax that was supposed to fund the expansion of medicaid, yeah, that’s not happening.
Finally read Roberts’ statement: “it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance.” Even he is saying that only those with a certain level of income will have to pay this tax. Read that as, “the 1% will continue to support this country, as the majority continues to avoid taxation.”
I assume that many of the liberal bloggers on this article are part of the Middle or Upper Middle Class in this country. Do they realize that this bill is the largest middle class tax hike in history? When the Bush tax breaks expire at the end of the year, there will be a double whammy. All of this will serve to increase unemployment and stymie the economy as more and more business owners drop their Group Health rather than face the increased costs. Millions of employees will be told their Health Insurance will be dropped and they will be on their own to find coverage in the exchanges. I am sure they will find that the Medicaid type coverage offered in the exchanges will be substandard at best. This bill is the biggest disincentive for hiring ever devised. Higher taxes and higher unemployment is not a good formula to recover this economy. Unless it is overturned, we are looking at a Banana Republic not far into the future. By the way, this President promised he would look after the Middle Class and would not raise their taxes. HMM. Looks like he just did and will be doing more in the near future.
Well today we clearly see that our court is purely been infected by the politicians that put them on the bench, our Chief justice has shown his lack of integrity, or played on our “believed” ignorance, either way this ruling is patently wrong, and yes, I have been involved with law as a lay person for 25 years, no way, on many other grounds, is this thing constitutional. The majority means nothing to the bench. We have 50 Billion a year of medicaid fraud, and now these immature politicians, and immature liberal justices,has opened a flood gate to 10 times that, I promise you punishing under this law will be vigorous and finding the billions of dollars the the fraud will go unpunished. It’s clear that we need to set aside our values, which for me is near impossible, and steal everything we can get our hands on, like our politicians, seems everything they see they twist and pervert it and then sell it on us or ram it down our throat…. Use the power of the vote this year, vote wisely.
I agree Sarah. He got up at the State of the Union speech and promised the middle class they would not see one red cent increase in their taxes. Bush Sr paid the price for his “Read my Lips” statement. Obama will pay the price for his broken promise since he will be presiding over the largest tax increase to the middle class in history. We are tired of the lies, distortions and the Chicago way. Enough is enough.
Let’s check the “greatest tax increase on the middle class in history” comment, shall we?
Using a method perfected by Jerry Tempalski, an analyst in the Office of Tax Analysis with the U.S. Department of the Treasury. In 2006, Tempalski tried to determine the relative impact of major tax revenue bills from 1940-2006. He used revenue estimates from Treasury and the Joint Committee on Taxation and calculated the impact as a percentage of GDP.
For 1940-1967 calculations, he used a single-year snapshot of the revenue impact of the tax legislation. For more recent tax bills, from 1968-2006, Tempalski used a two-year average of the revenue effects. Tempalski wrote: “The comparison of tax bills for the first period should be examined with some caution, because the revenue estimates are from different sources and are not completely consistent. The comparison for the second period can be viewed with more confidence, because the estimates are relatively consistent.”
As a percent of GDP, here are the top five tax increases from 1940-2006, according to Tempalski:
1. Revenue Act of 1942: 5.04 percent of GDP;
2. Revenue Act of 1961: 2.2 percent of GDP;
3. Current Tax Payment Act of 1943: 1.13 percent of GDP;
4. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;
5. Excess Profits Tax of 1950: .97 percent of GDP;
And here are the top five tax increases from the “modern” era of 1968-2006:
1. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;
2. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982: .8 percent of GDP;
3(t): Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980: .5 percent of GDP
3(t): Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993; .5 percent of GDP;
5: Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990; .49 percent of GDP.
The 2010 health care law
The list obviously does not include the health care law, which passed in 2010, and a spokeswoman for the Department of Treasury says it hasn’t been updated. So we calculated our own percent of GDP figure. We used 2019 as our baseline because that’s when all of the tax provisions of the law will be in effect. In 2019, the CBO estimates, the government will see increased revenues of $104 billion. We then divided that number into the projected GDP for 2019, which according to the CBO economic forecast is $21.164 trillion. That would mean the tax increase provisions of the health care law would amount to .49 percent of total GDP.
Depending on your rounding, that would mean the tax increases resulting from the health care law would be about the size of tax increases proposed and passed in 1980 by President Jimmy Carter, in 1990 by President George H.W. Bush and in 1993 by President Bill Clinton.
The health care-related tax increases are smaller than the tax increase signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1982 and a temporary tax signed into law in 1968 by President Lyndon B. Johnson. And they are significantly smaller than two tax increases passed during World War II and a tax increase passed in 1961.
The tax increases in the health care legislation do reverse a trend of federal tax cuts and represent the first significant tax increases since 1993.
But they are not the largest in the history of the United States.
And — despite what Limbaugh said — that means they cannot be the largest ever in the history of world. Limbaugh’s inflated rhetoric takes a wrong claim and puts it into the realm of the ridiculous
Planet, your dissertation on taxes makes our point. We have had a runaway government spending program going on for decades. The Congress and previous administrations have reached across the aisle and decided we need even more government so why not tax the population even more to promote entitlement spending. Back in LBJ’s day, he decided to rob the Social Security Trust Fund and move it to the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty. Several trillion later, is poverty better now? Do we have a solvent Social Security Trust Fund? You are also wrong on the taxes imposed by Obamacare. Planet, the folks are tired of this and we don’t want to be France, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Greece who have bankrupted their economy to fund their entitlements. If you have been following current events, you would know Europe is in deep trouble and the Euro is about finished as a currency. When they implode, the US will suffer greatly since they are big trading partners with us.
My point – not the single greatest tax increase and the numbers back it up. First Agent, as usual, we don’t agree. But that’s okay. Happy 4th of July to you and yours!
July 3, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Facts says:
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Captain Planet makes reference to what “Limbaugh” says in several posts including one on July 3rd. I’d state the Facts instead. Recently, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) uncovered some of these hidden costs, and it is clear that the original $938 billion price (2 years ago) tag was only a low-ball estimate. The CBO now pegs the cost at nearly double – $1.79 trillion. Even worse, the CBO also estimates that nearly 20 million people could lose their employer-provided insurance due to the rising costs of Obamacare mandates.
You do not seem to realize nor do you state that ObamaCare will reduce coverage not increase it. ObamaCare effectively forces insurers to pay out more generous benefits but limits their ability to raise the revenue needed to do so. Consequently, many firms will go out of business.
The decline has already started. Aetna has pulled out of the individual insurance market in Colorado and Indiana and out of the small-group market in Michigan. The Iowa-based Principal Financial Group stopped selling health insurance entirely, leaving 840,000 people without coverage. And Unicare has stopped selling policies in Virginia.
Once the private insurance market has been destroyed, Americans will be forced to buy their health insurance on government-run “exchanges” where the government decides which health services should or should not be covered.
Facts, another interesting development on this issue. Remember the 26 states that sued in court over Obamacare and took it to the Supreme Court? Many of them are now saying they will not implement the exchanges for 2014. Hmm! If more than half the states say they will not implement the Obamacare mandated exchanges, what will HHS do about it? The states don’t have the money and the Feds don’t have the money to do it. Perhaps we won’t have to worry about it if we get repeal after November. In any case, these Progressives have misjudged the resistance to their wonderful legislation and as Yogi Berra has said, it ain’t over until it’s over and this is far from over.
June 29, 2012 at 10:20 am
D says:
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I guess in your book, lack of integrity means a decision that goes against your opinion. Glad I don’t live in your world. You should read Robert’s opinion and review his past decisions before you go after the guy’s integrity.
Likewise, I think you should take a look at Bush’s proposed Housing reform laws that were never passed, and likewise you should look at his retirement program, compare the two new forms of retirement programs he wanted to set up for people making under $100,000 a year, allowing them up to 10,000 tax deferred investments with tax free withdrawals at retirement. If you can name those two IRA policy names I’ll be impressed.
And likewise I think you should look at his overall integrity even though you don’t agree with his decisions.
And also like wise I think before saying Bush was against the middle class I think you should look at his method to make all businesses eligible for a full fledged version of a 401k instead of how I for example cannot have one and am limited to $11,500 of investments a year due to democrat restrictions on the firm types that can have a 401k full, which allows $16,500.
Maybe just maybe, he wasn’t at all against the middle class. And maybe you shouldn’t question his integrity D. Because that’s just ludicrous right? Feeling a little two faced right now?
Ah, it has become so clear that insurance people don’t give a dam about we sick ones. And I feel very ill and even worse as the fact so many materialists have become inhuman without human feelings. ‘Cuse me while I go throw up.
I find it interesting that people who pay no taxes, like a lot of those holding up signs in support of Obamatax, the occupy deadbeats and a lot of college students that elected Obama in 08 seem to think that the minority who do pay taxes are all well off. Fact of the matter is:
* The 1% that Obama refers to can’t balance the budget if they gave 100% of their incomes.
* The government could not balance the budget if the top 5 or even 10% of the working taxpayers gave 100% of their incoomes. Fact of the matter is that the top 10% of taxpayers pay approximately 75 to 80% of the taxes.
*So where do the occupy deadbeats, Obamatax supporters think the money will come from? Well let me guess: $1.76 Trillion on the “I ain’t buying insurance group” What a farce. If they are not paying taxes now and not buying insurance, who is going to track them down for a $750.00 tax? How about Fed sales tax? How about higher tax on Social Security? The message is everyone but dealdbeats and illegal aliens are going to have to pay. Why not make it equitable for all and cut out the tax breaks that give 50% of the population a 0 sum due on federal taxes? Then turn around and have EVERYONE pay, based on Income, a sliding scale of 10 to 15% of their income to the federal government with No tax deductions? You would go a long way to balancing the budget. That is if you could keep the drunken administration from continuing their irresponsible spending spree. Otherwise, we will leave it up to the gang that can’t shoot straight in Washington DC to figure out how they are going to screww each and everyone one of us who earn a paycheck.
What good is it to tax people on having health insurance when people can’t afford to have any insurance. how much insurance would they be able to. And then what would the Gov’t do to make the insurance company to for the services the people recieved.Many times insurance companies find ways of not to pay a claim what then is the Gov’t going to pay if the insurance company doesn’t.after all it was the Gov’t that forced people to get insurance what then.A debate on whos responsible the insurance company or the Gov’t.To me thats more Gov’t waste of tax payers money.
Well if you were looking for some bookends we now have them, this is the matching case of the “Dred Scott case” now we have a pair.
Roberts was the weak link all along, so I’m sure he was internally targeted. Generally our government is truly unworthy of any respect, fear it, but you can’t respect it.
Republicans need to talk about the Heritage Foundation plan which links the individual mandate with individual Consumer-Driven health Plans, and does away with Employer-sponsored health plans. In doing so, it will also greatly affect the need for ERISA, COBRA, HIPAA and all the bureaucracies which are tied to them. Because consumers will be driving the medical decisions, managed care entities would be less necessary. Your employer would no longer be involved in your healthcare decisions in as much as they are the choosers of the coverage – in fact the whole brouhaha about Sandra Fluke and the Catholic Church would’ve been moot because Fluke would have to buy her own contraceptives because the church would not be involved or be even aware of the extent of her promiscuity – they wouldn’t be involved in the transaction. Captain Chaos would like to list all the ways the government is interefering in our lives as if it’s some sort of privilege granted, instead of freedoms restricted. The real contrast should be that CDHPs stand on their own – ObamaCare has so many moving parts that deprive you of choices and steer you to government traps labeled “Exchanges” which are nothing more than the entry point to a singlepayer government health plan from which there will be no escape. Finally, since this is an insurance publication and the majority of us are insurance agents, let’s ask Captain Chaos and his friends who favor the bureaucracy why insurance agents are not part of the distribution equation for the Exchanges? Who better to market the plan – a governmental bloated TGIF-wage-earning, union-protected TSA worker, or an entrepreneurial professional insurance agent?
But, instead Republicans are talking about just because the Supreme Court says the law is Constitutional doesn’t actually make it Constitutional. Or, they are dodging Chris Wallace’s question on a Sunday morning news show. Or, they are making t-shirts with Judge Robert’s likeness and the word “coward” beneath it. Or, they are trying to pretend this wasn’t their idea in the first place and as soon as a Democrat initiates it, it’s the most evil plan ever and is a government take-over of all things holy.
MarketMaker, “singlepayer” – now you’re talking! I see Vermont is trying to take a step in that direction. If it weren’t for all of their snow, I would have consider moving the family up there. Hopefully, they become the role model. It’s time we get private sector bureaucrats and stock holders out of my healthcare decisions. The PPACA at least does some of that with eliminating pre-existing conditions and lifetime limits. I still don’t think there should be a profit motive with one’s well-being.
Planet, please don’t stop in Vermont. Keep on going until you get to Canada. They have what you want. God forbid if you need an operation up there. You may die before you get it unless you come back to the US and find a doctor willing to operate with your Canadian Health Card. Cash may work if he won’t accept it.
The only thing that will be here sooner is November and the people have spoken. At that point, you definitely should consider Canada as a new home if they are taking immigrants from the US.
Well, I’m going to enjoy the hot summer for the time being. But, I am also looking forward to November. This is going to prove to be an interesting one. I think both sides are fired up.
July 2, 2012 at 3:20 pm
MarketMaker says:
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Vermont – once a bastion of Yankee individualism, has been steadily taken over by hippies and socialists from Massachusetts (Known as “Mass-Holes” by the natives.) They went to college and stayed there. Now it’s among the poorest as well as the most socialistic states in the union. Maybe you ought to move there, Captain? We do business in VT. Even the self-employed have to supplement their incomes with yard sales, basket-weaving and the like because of the low income possibilities – or you can grow pot. Pot is probably it’s biggest cash crop and export, but of course, that is part of the underground economy and won’t be taxed, and is the reason so many qualify for Medicaid, Food Stamps and other public assistance. They have to sets of books.
Market, I liked your characterization of the people from Massachusetts who have invaded Vermont. I think they have strayed a long way from the Pilgrims who landed on Plymouth Rock and established freedom from tyranny in the colonies.
Just coming back for one comment only to say to Sarah, Agent and all you other Rethuglicans…Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Thought you weren’t into name calling?
Ha Ha Ha…. Last laugh will be on you, OPV.. Just wait until November! I think this just woke a sleeping Giant.
I believe that you will see the TEA Party come to life, very much so!
Repeal and Replace! will be the words of the day until November.
The problem with what you posted is that Rethuglicans have no plan to replace and have no desire to replace. They only want to repeal.
I will be Ha Ha Ha ing in November because you guys nominated a guy who was the role model for the individual mandate. Ha Ha Ha.
Consumer-driven plans can be sold individually, replacing employer-sponsored health plans, and replacing the entire Obama government construct, as well as ERISA, HIPAA, COBRA, etc. and all the bureaucracies that are tied to them.
It isn’t just republicans who don’t want teh government involved in healthcare. Anyone that has used a VA hospital knows that the government can run a hospital. You will be HAHAHA ing yourself into an early grave because of some federal employee doesn’t care if they mess up your meds because they can’t be fired for not doing there job.
That was a surprise, I expected the conservative court to strike the law down.
I did to. And I am a big fan of Justice Roberts. I honestly think that Justice Roberts may not care for the legislation (just my opinion), however, having to interpret the constitution (that is his job), and setting politics aside, this is what he believed, that congress has the right to tax…or penalize as some see it. That’s the great thing about this nation, being able to openly debate this sort of thing. Although I am a conservative and very much oposed to this legislation, I do believe that every american, rich or poor deserves health care. Now, how we provide that is the tough part, through a tax may have to be the way, but it should not be selective. As voters we get to choose in November what direction we want our nation to move in. I just hope we choose the right (no pun intended) one. At least we are free to choose. Happy 4th of July to everyone!
Conservative court… that is funny.
Enjoy those 4ths now. Soon the government will ban the celebrations because they make some people feel bad.
I honestly believe he was paid off, the chief justice.
Producer #1 – You are not alone. Chief Justice Roberts surprised more than a few people. This is the least political decision by the Supreme Court in recent memory.
it not about what the american people want or we would have been able to vote on this bill. its about money and egos!
This is what the intelligent thinking American’s want.
Are you trying to say intelligent American’s want the government to make their decisions for them? Doesn’t sound like an intelligent choice to me?
The premiums are still going to the various healthcare providing carriers, right? Or, are the premiums going to the government? This is actually a pretty big win for Americans. No lifetime limits, no pre-existing conditions, free preventative care, and Constitutionally founded. Washington had a mandate every able-bodied white man to purchase a firearm (Milita Acts of 1792). The very first congress also mandated ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. Signed into law by Washington again. Then, in 1798, Congress enacted a law requiring those seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That was signed into law by John Adams. I am certain the founders would be very much in favor of at least similar law to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Kudos to President Obama for getting something done. Even if he doesn’t win in November, without a doubt this solidifies him as a monumental President.
As usual Planet, your head is in the clouds and you refuse to face reality. The Supremes revealed the truth that it is a tax, not a penalty as the President has repeated over and over. This is the biggest tax on the middle class in history. Couple that with them planning to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year and it is a double whammy on the Middle Class. Tell me Planet, how is this economy ever going to recover from this excessive taxation scheme. Small Businesses all over the country are going to lay off more employees and drop their Group Coverage because they can’t handle the increased costs. Employees are going to be thrown into the exchanges to fend for themselves and end up paying for less coverage at higher rates. I disagree with you about Obama. He will not be remembered as a monumental President. He is the biggest failure as a President in our lifetime and is making Jimmy Carter look pretty good at this point and that is hard to do.
John, Had Multi Line Agent put a question mark behind his statement, he may have had more likes. Stating it like he did makes me wonder if he ageees with the bill. Since we can’t have a nationwide referendum on this monstrocity, we will just have to change out the Presidency and the Senate in November so we can get it repealed.
Multi Line Agent Forever did you forget to put a question mark at the end? If not I don’t know that you’re an “intelligent thinking American!
Does anyone know of a where to procure a concise summary of the impact of the law (i.e. changes that will be mandated)? Bullet-point type stuff.
Don’t rely on Bullet points or talking points. Think for yourself.
Google “Kaiser PPACA” and look at the implementation timeline.
–Allows FDA greater ability to approve generic drugs
–Increases drug rebates in Medicare
–Creats non-profit PCORI entity to study various treatments to compare efficacy, costs etc
–Chain restaurants have to display nutritional info like calories
–Creates “high risk pool” for people w/ pre-existing conditions
–Adds 10% tax on indoor tanning booths
–No more “Lifetime Maximum Limits”
–Children can be covered under parents’ health plans until age 26
–No more pre-existing condition restrictions for kids under age 19
–Less ability to change rates
–People in the Medicare “donut” get a rebate
–Insurers must provide more detail about costs
–Requires an internal appeals process for claim denials
–New fraud prevention measures were created
–Medicare extended to smaller hospitals
–Medicare patients w/ chronic illness must be more thoroughly monitored
–Reduced costs for companies handling benefits for elderly
–www.healthcare.gov was created
–New credit program to spur business innovation in illness treatment
–Cap on carrier expense ratios
–Limits on what type of accounts can be used to pay for OTC drugs w/o prescription
–Employers rqeuired to detail benefits provided in their tax forms
All of the above already took effect. On 8/01 plans will have to include preventative care with no co-pay or deductible.
On 1/1/13 taxes will very slightly increase for those making over $200,000 per year. Yes, 0.9% is a tiny increase. Or, if you’re a Rush-head, “the biggest tax increase in the history of the world”.
1/1/2014 — More substantive changes take effect including pre-existing condition elimination, the “tax” / individual mandate, no more annual spending caps at all, raise the low income cutoff for Medicaid, tax credits for small business, businesses w/ > 50 employees must offer full-time employees health benefits, new limits to maximum deductibles, Medicare spending cuts, $2500 limits on FSAs, creates health care exchanges, Congress only gets plans from these exchanges (no more Federal plans for Congresspersons), new taxes on Pharma industry, new taxes based on % market share for health insurers, and a higher tax deduction allowed for medical expenses.
There’s some more stuff w/ later triggers– 1/1/15, 1/1/17, 2018, & 2020.
I think it’s wonderful how all those benefits, that long list, will be paid for by “very slight increases for those making over $200k”
In fact, I think it’s miraculous.
Not that you would be interested, but you did read a little while ago how the math of the bill was shown to be completely wrong, and that the costs would be much higher than projected.
There are lies, darned lies, and statistics. I won’t attempt to break down the math in the bill. No one has been able to, and I wouldn’t trust any statistics or interpretations regardless the source. Someone asked what was included in the bill in a bullet point form. I merely provided a short summary of what is actually in the bill without comment in an effort to further a legitimate discussion based on actual facts.
Exitebiker, I hope you enjoy paying for these coverage in your premiums, because your employer just cancelled your benefits and pays the $500 penalty for not providing you with health insurance. Congratulations you now a paying for your own benefits and your 26 year old failure to launch liberal kid sleeping to 2:00pm in his bedroom that he “occupied” as a teenager ever since flunking out of college.
I am my brother’s keeper and if I have to pay a little more to ensure all Americans can find the coverage they need in order to be healthy, it’s worth it. Yes, even that college kid that flunked out and is in his mom’s basement. He’s probably down there working on what will become the next Apple. That is well worth my investment. Just think, Sarah, you’re helping save lives. You can honestly say that now.
Sarah, I laughed about 5 minutes on your post. The last paragraph is priceless. I needed that after a difficult, stressful week. Have a good one.
Finally! You made a comment with real substance, even if you did load it with right-wing talk radio slogans. I guess only liberals that sleep until 2pm end up “occupying” their parents’ home.
The biggest failure of the bill will be its failure to adequately control costs. If employers cannot afford to offer plans and don’t perceive a risk of brain drain if they were to cease offering it then they will stop doing so. If individuals cannot afford coverage they will not buy it.
The thought process is– and here’s where the Republican idea for the individual mandate came in– that you can get the adverse selection out of the system by getting everyone bought in. Please don’t forget it was the health insurers and Republicans who advocated for many years for an individual mandate.
Only time will tell how much the increased participation will improve medical loss ratios.
We knew the prior system was unsustainable. I think the PPACA is a positive step that will improve trends for future projections. But the system is so broken on so many levels that it may not be enough, and the system may still ultimately collapse.
But so far the world hasn’t ended even though many of the provisions have been in place for a while. They ought to give PPACA a chance. Tearing it down and going through another political war over a revision (that, let’s face it, will probably end up also being 2,000 pages and looking a lot like the PPACA) will be a huge cost for the insurance companies. Do you really think United Health Care wants to un-do all of the stuff they just worked to implement and then just end up having to make even more changes if a replacement bill was passed?
Also wouldn’t a 26-year old be a good addition to any health plan? It seems like that would bring down costs. Would you rathter insure a couple in their mid 50s by themselves or would you rather insure the couple plus a healthy 26-year old for additional premium? How can this possibly be viewed as a bad provision of the law?
ExciteBiker states ” taxes will very slightly increase for those making over $200k. You neglected to mention the seven new taxes on citizens making less than $250k including the consequences. It is the biggest tax increase on all Americans.
The first, and best known, of these seven taxes that will hit all Americans as a result of Obamacare is the Individual Mandate Tax (no longer concealed as a penalty). This provision will require a couple to pay the higher of a base tax of $1,360 per year, or 2.5% of adjusted growth income starting with lower base tax and rising to this level by 2016. Individuals will see a base tax of $695 and families a base tax of $2,085 per year by 2016.
Next up is the Medicine Cabinet Tax that took effect in 2011. This tax prohibits reimbursement of expenses for over-the-counter medicine, with the lone exception of insulin, from an employee’s pre-tax dollar funded Health Saving Account (HSA), Flexible Spending Account (FSA) or Health Reimbursement Account (HRA). This provision hurts middle class earners particularly hard since they earn enough to actually pay federal taxes, but not enough to make this restriction negligible.
The Flexible Spending Account (FSA) Cap, which will begin in 2013, is perhaps the most hurtful provision to the middle class. This part of the law imposes a cap of $2,500 per year (which is now unlimited) on the amount of pre-tax dollars that could be deposited into these accounts. Why is this particularly hurtful to the middle class? It is because funds in these accounts may be used to pay for special needs education for special needs children in the United States. Tuition rates for this type of special education can easily exceed $14,000 per year and the use of pre-tax dollars has helped many middle income families.
Another direct hit to the middle class is the Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle which is currently 7.5% of adjusted gross income. This is the hurdle that must be met before medical expenses over that hurdle can be taken as a deduction on federal income taxes. Obamacare raises this hurdle to 10% of adjusted gross income beginning in 2013. Consider the middle class family with $80,000 of adjusted gross income and $8,000 of medical expenses. Currently, that family can get some relief from being able to take a $2,000 deduction (7.5% X $80,000 = $6,000; $8,000 –$6,000 = $2,000). An increase to 10% would eliminate the deduction in this example and if that family was paying a 25% federal tax rate, the real cost of that lost deduction would be $500.
The fifth new tax on the middle class, and all Americans, is the Health Savings Account (HSA) Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10% currently to 20% beginning in 2013. This provision actually sets these accounts apart from Investment Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and other tax advantaged accounts, all of which remain with a 10% early withdrawal tax.
Another regressive tax that is part of this law began in 2010 and that is the Indoor Tanning Services Tax, which places a 10% excise tax on people using tanning salons. While some may regard this as insignificant, the broader implication is that this act of taxation is a blatant move by the federal government to control the behavior of citizens. This provision, as does the Individual Mandate and as Justice Kennedy said during the oral arguments on the constitutionality of the law said, “….fundamentally changes the relationship between the federal government and the citizen.”
The seventh new tax that directly impacts the middle class, along with all citizens, is the Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans or the “Cadillac” Health Insurance Plan Tax. These are plans that provide extensive coverage and that are generally fully paid for, or largely paid for, by employers. This provision imposes a 40% excise tax on the employer-paid premium on taxpayers who are covered by such plans, beginning in 2018. The reason it begins in 2018 is because most unionized workers are covered by plans that fall under this definition and a deferral was made to spare union members from this tax for at least a period of time.
Also beginning in 2014, the Employer Mandate Tax will impose an annual non-deductible tax on employers with more than 50 employees who do not provide health insurance for their employees.
The impact of this provision on low and middle income earners, and really all working Americans, is that employers will be confronted with three choices. The first is provide some level of health insurance, as many do today, and there would be no impact on employees. The second choice is to pay the penalty, which would most likely be less expensive than providing health insurance, and force employees to seek their own health insurance or purchase it through federal government controlled state exchanges. Studies have estimated that 20 million Americans will lose their employee funded health insurance as a result of this provision and employers electing this option. The third choice is for employers to lay off employees, or not hire additional employees, because Obamacare forces them to either provide health insurance or pay the new tax.
Thank you Facts for pointing out all these new taxes which will have disastrous economic consequences on this country. Obamatax will be the end of the country as we know it unless the good citizens put a stop to it in November. While we are talking about taxes, there is another feature in this bill which will impose a 2.5% Excise Tax if you sell your home. Great, isn’t it? Another thing due to happen is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Democrats are licking their chops on this one. I am sure that will be a great job creator as well. They won’t be happy unless we have as high a rate as France. How is that working out for them? Implosion!
Insurance is all about a risk pool, when there are so many outside of the current health insurance pool how can we say that the spirit of this action is wrong?
So using your logic the whole concept of self insurance is out? I fully agree that having a means by which to support the economic consequences of your own health is critical and for most insurance is the right way to go. Just find it against the principles that our country was founded on to force someone to purchase insurance or any good solely due to being alive is wrong.
Then the only true solution to our health insurance crisis is socialized medicine. I really don’t think Ben Franklin thought his bright idea would lead to this!
In truth, though, how many people really want to self-insure? As things have been, insurance companies squawk about adverse selection when what they’ve really wanted was just to cherry-pick the very best risks and leave those with existing conditions to figure out other alternatives, which haven’t always been available. If insurers were better at devising an acceptable mechanism that could protect all comers, the national program might not have been necessary. But they didn’t, and here we are.
Self insurance is out because very, very few people could truly afford to use it. Here in Texas you can make a $50,000 deposit with the state comptroller and never worry about buying auto insurance. Not a problem. But the problem with health care is that $50,000 isn’t nearly enough. If it was there would be no problem. When not even $1,000,000 is enough you start to have some real problems. When a simple surgical procedure can go wrong and result in a 2-week hospital stay and the patient ends up with–literally– a rolling suitcase full of bills totaling millions of dollars, you know you have a really, really bad problem.
The problem is Economics! Supply. And. Demand. Supply (capable doctors and surgeons) is small and shrinking with every newly elected GOP rep that wants to wage war on science in the name of the Religious Right. And Demand is EXPLODING! Look around. See any obese people? Morbidly obese? See any morbidly obese kids? Know any smokers who are morbedly obese, have type II diabetes, and have all sorts of big medical problems? Know any people with double knee replacements? Know anyone with high blood pressure?
We live in a country where, pretty soon, people will start visibly seeing the reality of social darwinism. When you only have one loaf of bread but a hundred hungry people some people are not going to eat. Care will either be rationed by the government or by the size of your wallet. And as long as we celebrate shows about people having 40 children while we eviscerate our school systems and stuff our faces with fried butter and salt things are only going to get worse.
the problem isn’t pooling of risk…it’s the government!
I agree what ever happened to the concept that if you could not afford to pay you went to the county hospital? Oh I remember the fed says to the hospital if you want to take medicare payments then you also have to treat everyone regardless of ability to pay.
Exactly! The Government, State and Federal, screwed it all up with mandated coverage minimums and other regulations, and and they still think they can fix it all with more laws and regulation!
Pres. Reagan said that, actually.
Reagan said the government was the problem, not the solution. Truers words have never been spoken.
That is definitely surprising. The tax thing makes sense, except that the penalty is not a tax. I’m guessing that they will need to alter the wording in the bill to make the ruling sound intelligent.
This isn’t going to solve our problem. There will still be millions of uninsured who while choose to pay the penalty as opposed to healthcare premiums (since cheaper). Yeah the gov’t may get some additional “tax” revenue, but ultimately the goal was not achieved; also there is no guarantee the gov’t will spend that additional revenue appropriately (like with Social Security).
For those who have supported the individual mandate portion of the bill, I hope you understand that this was just a political play and nothing more. At the end of the day the gov’t will still be taking more money from you and giving to those who don’t work.
Obama has said time and time again that he believes in redistribution of wealth. So don’t get upset when your bank account is empty.
Nobama – 2012
Anytime you have a Presidency, Congress & the Court ignoring the will of the people, this is what can happen. Upholding this monstrocity is another step on the way to Socialism. All one has to do is look at Europe which is imploding as we speak to see the damage done by Progressive Socialism. The American People have a chance to speak in November and then we can see about getting this monstrocity repealed. I am surprised that John Roberts was the one casting the tie breaking vote. Apparently, he is not on the side of Conservatives either and must not care if the country goes down the tubes.
The court is to interpret the law as it is. It is up to the citizens to vote for leaders that will implement the correct laws. I personally hate Obamacare and will do everything in my power to get a conservative majority in Washington so that we can move the country in the right direction.
if the law was written stating htere is a mandate how, if the Court is to interpret the law how did they decide it’s not a mandate but a tax?
good question
We saw how that worked during Bush’s tenure.
I said a conservative not a republican.
After the law is understood those that really study the financial implications for their situation will decide whether to “opt out” and pay the “tax” or purchase healthcare. The best financial selection may be to pay the tax, pay cash for routine medical care and then if something catastrophic occurs buy the healthcare since the pre-existing condition issue is removed.
Exactly! Well put Seer. This is why the individual mandate is bogus
From what I see, Seer has it right on. I am looking at the financial side of it and it looks to me like opting out is a great option for me. I have health insurance but most of my family medical bills end up being out of pocket because of the deductible. I have the insurance in case of a catastrophic situation. If I can’t be rejected for a preexisting condition what is the purpose of having insurance.
This law has all the clarity & brevity of the IRS Code. That said, the interpretations I have fielded point to the initially-low tax/penalty increasing substantially, forcing the individual to buy into the government plan. And of course the enforcement arm will be the unbridled power and reach of the IRS.
If this is such a fine solution for those of us outside the gilded halls of government liberalism, why did all those D-legislators EXEMPT themselves from it? That is the height of hypocrisy.
I agree that the initial tax will increase substantially after the process flows towards the single payer system, which was the real intent of the drafters of the law. The private insurers will not be able to stay in business as they cover large expenditures due to the removal of the pre-existing condition clause.
Personally, I view any split of 5/4 as being political.
As opposed to a verdict that favors what you like, which is upholding what is right, right?
When has Govt intrusion into private business ever worked out?
Why not address Tort Reform?
With fewer limits on Congress’ power under the Commerce Clause, look forward to increasing encroachment on freedoms currently taken for granted.
Yes, the government can force to both buy and you eat broccoli, and penalize you if you don’t. Next, there’s no reason it cannot force you to buy and do lots of other things you thought it could not.
Just like every American today routinely accepts restraints on freedom, in the name of security, that would have been thought unimaginable pre-9/11, your chidren will accept what today you thought it impossible.
This is how a country collapses. No matter how well-established, there will always be forces that pull it away from stability, and eventualyl bring it down. This was not step 1, but it is a large step on the way there.
You obviously didn’t read the opinion. It wasn’t upheld under the Commerce Clause.
Obviously, I didn’t since I posted right after hearing the decision.
However, if limits on Commerce Clause pose no problem, what’s the dif?
We’ll read and see…
The mandate was defined as a tax. The commerce clause was upheld by Roberts. By defining the mandate as a tax, it precludes the unconstitutionality of the mandate had it been considered within the commerce clause. Roberts made an objective ruling. I can’t argue with that. But, yes, we’re heading down a path to Socialism. We can stop this progression in it’s tracks- GET OUT THERE AND VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
The mandate IS a tax but Obama’s on the TV now saying it’s not. I think he should get his facts straight.
But they found a loophole to let them violate the constitution anyway didn’t they.
How does this address the problem of the uninsured illegals that use the system? How do you tax those under the radar?
You don’t tax them , they just keep getting free healthcare, like they do here in Dallas at Parkland, with the largest number of babies born each year of any county hospital. Then I, a legal citizen and property owner, pay my Parkland hospital district portion of my tax bill, and they get coverage. Not a thing changes. The legal citizens foot the bill.
Are you allowed to say “legal citizen” anymore? Or is that considered racist?
I know you are not allowed to say “illegal alien,” becuase although they broke the law to come here, they are now to be referred to as “undocumented,” as if they had accidentally left their citizenship papers at home.
I guess maybe I should have said documented citizen, or in the way we are going, documented comrade?
this is a one trillion dollar unfunded mandate by our government (some sources are saying two trillion)… a huge tax increase is comming… I am shocked that this law was held by the high court as constitutional…
Gov’t in the insurance business. How did the flood thing work for ya? Why do they always think they can do it better, faster, cheaper then the professionals?
They, ‘The Dems’, simply don’t believe we are equal to their superior intellect. So the version they invent and stuff down our throats is ALWAYS better in their eyes than what the private sector can do.
Their ‘god-complex’ was allowed to run amok with majorities in both houses AND the White House, and now we’ll dearly pay the price if this monster isn’t repealed.
The only other recourse would be to truly socialize medicine! All of those who are paying for health insurance now are supporting those who choose not to. When an uninsured person is injured or has a health crisis the “payors” are truly paying for them. Is this going to level that field? Only time can tell.
No…the payors will always be paying while the lack of accountability on the able bodied beneficiaries continues.
I am totally against Obamacare. Unfortunately for some it is not a matter of whether they choose to have insurance; they just plain and simple do not have the money. With good jobs so scarse and with employers not offering insurance, being able to buy it is cost prohibitive. If I am making just barely minimum wage and only able to work 30 hours a week (because my employer would have to give me insurance if I work more than that)I can’t afford the cost of insurance. I have already downsized from the new carto the 15 years old worn out car, gotten rid of cable, and eat a lot of hamburger, where in the budget do I find money for health insurance. I don’t know what the answer is, but penalizing and taxing people for not having insurance is not the answer. How about if government gets their hands out of the pockets of the businesses in America the provide jobs and let them put people back to work. When a doctors office or pharmacy can charge two different prices for a service or product depending on whether you have insurance or not…that is wrong.
Just saying…
IIRC you shouldn’t have any penalties for not carrying health insurance unless you make more than 4x the federal poverty level. Do you? (What is that, something around $40,000 a year for a single person?)
And if you make less than 1.33x the poverty level you may have just become eligible for the expanded medicaid program. The expansion was designed to help working people who can’t make ends meet. Many of those people have stories similar to yours.
The other nice thing is that, if you were to be diagnosed with some illness or become injured somehow, insurance companies will no longer be able to deny you coverage because you were uninsured at the time.
This law specifically helps you, LP.
It’s simple,
Now insurance companies can’t deny you.
Now it will be affordable.
Now you will be cared for.
Now shut up.
Amen.
but who pays for it???
Who pays for it? At least some of it will come from the millions of 20-somethings in excellent health who don’t bother to get insurance now because they don’t think it’s worth it. They will come into the pool with very low losses and expenses. Imagine if only those who had accidents and violations bought auto insurance. Then the ‘good’ drivers suddenly entered the pool. Do you thiink the rates would be tempered a bit?
Why do you think it is appropriate for a bad driver to pay more for auto insurance and at the same time expect healthy people to pay for sick people? If your auto insurance didn’t increase if you had accidents or speeding tickets, would you drive more carefully??
We will all pay more – count on it.
The pricing regulations in PPACA actually require insurance pricing to be no more than a 1:3 relationship between the youngest, healthiest individual and the oldest, sickest individual – even though insurance companies are pricing in the 1:5 ratio currently.
If the law is not overturned in 2013, many of those young people you are hoping to penalize or tax to subsidize others will simply not pay. They are already overburdened by paying others Social Security and Medicare. There is a growing lack of responsibility in the US – it’s in the 20-somethings who want to spend their money on something else other than health insurance (or their 401K) and it’s in those who don’t take care of their health and expect others to pay for taking care of them, and those who want to be able to wait until they are sick before buying insurance.
So the court interpreted the law. That still does not make it right and I will continue to do everything in my power and right as a citizen of this great nation to change the law. Just as there have been many other laws amended and overturned throughout our history so to shall this one.
what flavor Kool Aide are you drinking?
Keep dreming.
Affordable? Keep dreaming.
Are you usine Obamas definition of affordable or Websters?
How do you see it becoming afordable. Like everything else the government gets involved in it will just get messed up. If you think the govenment kows anything about healthcare you have not had the luxury of using a VA hospital.
The Dems lost some 14 elections in 2010 when the law was passed. I think after this they will really be toast.
Little carpenter – you think this bill will make health care more affordable? Haha!
In no way will you or anyone have more affordable insurance because of this bill.
Libs need to get out from under their rock and stop living in a dream world.
Random, they’re not under a rock, there sheep. They will follow their DNC mouth-piece up the ramp to ruin without a giving a 2nd thought to anything.
The Dread Pirate Roberts. I didn’t see that coming.
Arrrrghhh! They be stealin’ ar’ moneyz, maties! AR’ MONEYZ!!
Whether you like or hate this law, you can’t have a system where only those who need it are the ones who buy it. This is a logical decision an that point.
again I ask; how do you tax those who are under the radar?
they don’t get taxed WE DO!
Exactly!!
Then the government can force me to buy a tricycle, though I am an adult.
You can’t have a system where only those who need tricycles are the ones who buy it. Furthermore, it is quite likely that at some point in the future I may get married and have children, and then I will need a tricycle.
Maybe even two. So I should pay now.
Dude. We are not talking about tricycles. We are talking about life and death and a complicated financial system that must survive to take care of nearly infinite needs of an extremely diverse population of many different income levels. Nobody is going to make you buy a tricycle and you don’t need one to stay alive. It’s people like you who probably have no worries when it comes to access to health care, that take the dabate into the moronic relm and away from practicle solutions. If you don’t buy insurance, you should be peanalized because sooner or later you will fall off your tricycle and have to go to the emergency room and recieve medical attention which you are otherwise unininsured for. Your care would be unfunded without the peanalty. This is the exact system we have now which us the ultimate socialism. Charging YOU for not buying insurance is the only right and fair thing to do.
Not a financial logic. Only logical thing for me to do is cancel my coverage and become a leach. Thats would be affordable.
I was surprised and diappointed by the decision. There are many parts of this law that were never made public that will put the government in control of a major aspect of our lives. Moreover, there will be a huge amount of money sent to hire more government employees, especially in teh IRS, to manage the requirement in teh law. Jobe creation? Well, yes, if you want more government jobs and the attendant cost in place. Where does the money for that come from our pockets, of course. Where will the shortfalls in funding come from? More taxes on us that won’t even make a dent in the potential deficits and borrowing these costs will incur. The president has been consistant with his message to “redistribute wealth” and this is but one step in that direction.
I seems we are on our way out as the most successful and powerful nation in the world. We’ve weakened our economy, defenses and our image around the world. Moreover, the law that leads us in that direction was passed under the most shameful politicking and bribe-filled cajoling that is loaded with political favoratism in the form of waivers for special interst groups. If this is the way our country is to be run from here on, we won’t recognize it in a few years. And, we’ll incur debts we will never be ablt to pay off. Do our politicians really believe that by adding more cost to health insurance for companies that provide it for employees will lead to more job creation in the private sector? More likely it will send more jobs overseas where trhe costs are much less. Anyone watching what is happening in Europe, especially Greece? That’s us not too far from now. I fear we’ll see people fighting in the streets here as more and more of our hard earned money is absorbed by the government that may soon be borrowing more than our GDP coiuld possibly support.
Rusty, You see things with clear eyes. The ramifications of this decision will be manifested in the coming couple of years if it is not repealed after November. This country cannot go on like this for much longer. It is up to the voters to get rid of all these Progressives that rammed this sorry legislation down our throat and repeal it and replace it with a Common Sense solution.
If anyone hasn’t noticed, Obama has done some positive things and things are turning around in this country. He came in on the heels of Bush’s administration that ran things into the ground. Let’s compare what Obama has accomplished in his 4 yrs vs what Bush accomplished in 8 years. Things that make you go hmmmm…
Please list out all of the good things that Obama did.
Here are a FEW things!!!
– In his first year the Recovery & Reinvestment Act created a little over 2 MILLION jobs!
– Equal pay for women
– Withdrawal of US troops
– Ended the stop-loss policy that keeps soldiers in Iraq past their enlistment date
– Lowered drug costs for our seniors
– Increased pay and benefits for military employees
– FDA is now regulating tobacco
– Made more loans available to small businesses
– Ended the practice offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource AMERICAN jobs via the new policy to promote in-sourcing and bringing jobs back to US employees
– Reduced/limited salaries of senior White House aides to $100K.
– Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of HIS VERY OWN pocket!
Need I go on?????
What did BUSH do???
– He BANKRUPTED the treasury!
– Entered the office with a criminal record
– Set the all-time record for the largest drop in the history of the stock market.
– Set the record for the most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
– Cut unemployment benefits
– Set the record for the most foreclosures in history in a 12 month period
– He made more amendments to the Constitution than any other president. So, stop complaining about Healthcare being unconstitutional!
Need I go on???? Really????!!!
Holly, have you been on a cruise for the past year? Do you really think Obama has been doing positive things and turning the country around? By the way, Bush had a lot of help running this country in the ground from Pelosi and Reid who kept spending at record levels, not reigning in Fanny & Freddie who ruined the housing crisis among other things. Your guy Obama signed onto all that legislation. How is it that Obama has a 33% approval rating on the economy now? Does that sound like he is turning it around? This country is in terrible shape and getting worse by the day. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Read my response above. I’ve been awake! BTW, I don’t drink coffee! I don’t need it!
Holly, the last amendment to the Constitution repealed prohibition – before Bush was even born. You get an “F” in civics class, so how can anyone take you seriously?
Obama also doubled the deficit in 4 years. 16 trillion in debit. Are you happy with that being the case?? Do you consider this one of Obama’s accomplishments? I certainly don’t!
Seriously! You have to spend money to make money. Everyone knows that! Also, the treasury was ALREADY bankrupt when he took office.
“spend money to make money.” WHAT PLANT ARE YOU ON? Equal pay for women? Again, what planet are YOU on? I think you need to take off those rose colored glasses, Holly. The stock just hit the hopper on the news of Ocare being upheld. Get ready for a long rough ride, this is just the beginning. The USA credit rating was reduced and you still think Obama is a shining star. He governs this country like he’s King and not a president. I hope we give him his walking papers in November. God help us all if we don’t. God knows what else he’ll do without “we the people” votes to ruin this great country.
Still awaiting your answer Holly. Here’s a few thing Mr Obama has done. Are you better off? Perhaps you are, but the vast majority of Americans are NOT better off under teh Obama Administration. Time for Change.
$3.59 – When Barack Obama entered the White House, the average price of a gallon of gasoline was $1.85. Today, it is$3.59.
22 – It is hard to believe, but today the poverty rate for children living in the United States is a whopping 22 percent.
23 – According to U.S. Representative Betty Sutton, an average of 23 manufacturing facilities permanently shut down in the United States every single day during 2010.
30 – Back in 2007, about 10 percent of all unemployed Americans had been out of work for 52 weeks or longer. Today, that number is above 30 percent.
32 – The amount of money that the federal government gives directly to Americans has increased by 32 percent since Barack Obama entered the White House.
35 – U.S. housing prices are now down a total of 35 percent from the peak of the housing bubble.
40 – The official U.S. unemployment rate has been above 8 percent for 40 months in a row.
42 – According to one survey, 42 percent of all American workers are currently living paycheck to paycheck.
48 – Shockingly, at this point 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low income” or are living in poverty.
49 – Today, an astounding 49.1 percent of all Americans live in a home where at least one person receives benefits from the government.
To answer some of your comments! Housing prices are down due to what happened during the BUSH administration. Remember all of the foreclosures, etc. That bubble popped under his administration. Jobs were being outsourced, remember? As for your comment on the gas situation…when President George W. Bush took office in 2001, gasoline sold for an average of $1.50 per gallon and in the summer of 2008 (which was his last year in office), prices exceeded $4.20. So, don’t talk to me about gas prices! I can challenge every comment above if you REALLY want me to spend the time doing so! Let me know…
If everyone will recall, Obama entered having to TRY and clean up a HUGE mess. You cannot deny that whether it was a Republican or a Democrat, it was a MESS to clean and a difficult job for anyone. I’m not part of the 48% considered low income nor do I receive any sort of income from the government. Lucky for me!
That came about from dem policies of forcing banks to lend to people they should not have lent to.
Holly, I’m sorry but you don’t know what you are talking about and at this point I don’t think your comments can be taken seriously.
The recession we are in is because of “progressive” policies. It started during the Carter Administation when the gov’t forced banks to make sub-prime loans (loans to people who could not affored them).
Bush wasn’t the best president, I have no problems stating that, but Obama is about 10 times worse.
Look at the economy stats during the Reagan years – best period of economic prosperity. Maybe the gov’t can learn a few things.
Please tell me what is turning around.
Reagan, really? LMAO!
To Random:
I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. I am going to enjoy this next election. Remember this day and remember this – Obama will win the 2012 election! I’m done posting until then… I will be back to post an “I TOLD YOU SO” when it is announced.
Holly,
You are just out there and not seeing reality. I don’t know about you but most of the people in this country are really struggling to make ends meet. We are in a lot worse shape than we were 4 years ago. Makes Carter’s catastrophe of a presidency look like a huge success. Bush was way too absorbed in the terorism stuff and messed up alot of stuff, but really, to say Obama fixed anything is insane.
John,
You’re right you don’t know about me! I am not struggling to make ends meet. I know how to live WITHIN my budget! I don’t need a reality check. This country is moving in the right direction under Obama’s leadership. To complain is pure ignorance. Have you forgotten the mess that he walked into????!!! Bottom line, Bush created this HUGE mess and to expect for someone to fix it quickly is absoluately ridiculous. You’re delusional. Obama 2012! It’s sad that people are arguing over which party they belong to, etc. Whatever happened to having the best person for the job in office. Obama was the best choice in 2008 and will be the best choice again in 2012. Unlike Romney, he has never waivered on his beliefs or what he has promised the American people. Romney has a history of voting one way and then changing it up. Just like a politician! Obama has been trying to make good on what he promised when he campaigned and the story has not changed. OBAMA2012!!!! Carter’s presidency was a fail. Imagine what shape we would be in if he had to try to clean up Bush’s mess!
we need TERM LIMITS one way or the other.
What’s the difference between mandating healthcare and also making it law to have auto insurance. Just saying!
It’s not law to have auto insurance. Driving is a priviledge. You aren’t forced to drive, but if you do, you need to have insurance. THis is much different.
Durrr
Then, you are required to have insurance. In your own words, durrr! Driving is a priviledge because in this day and age the poor barely can afford transportation, let alone insurance! Being rich is a priviledge and so is the ability to afford private insurance. Be careful how you throw around the word priviledge and last time I checked…it’s “DUH” not “DURRR” as the DURRR is not even in the dictionary!
Holly all that is mandated with mandatory auto insurance is THIRD Party LIABILITY. I do not have to and am not required by the state to cover my vehicle (myself) which is what this legislation does.
Mandatory Auto insurance is also required by the states NOT the federal government! The last statistics I saw say that 30% of all drivers are still uninsured.
in one you are protecting the public from your wrongdoing if at fault, in the other you are only harming yourself. Of course this does not take into account the unpaid medical expense if you enter a hospital through the ER. then we all get to particate.
Illinois Policits in the white house.
Isn’t that the TRUTH! I live in Chicago!
Amazed, I hope you and FFA stay safe in Chicago. I understand it is close to anarchy in the streets there with the thugs running around shooting people. What is the wonderful Emanuel doing about cracking down on the gangs?
D, there are millions of Americans who buy insurance who don’t need it (but may in the future). The proportion of uninsured is not a large as you think it is.
Thanks, Random for your brillian argument and excellent use of facts.
30 million is not a large number? Really? I guess when you are talking proportions maybe your argument holds water for about 30 seconds. The average cost of health care per person in the US is about $7200 and we have 30 million uninsured. The average cost, per person, for health care in Canada, England, Australia, Germany, France is about $3300 and virtually 100% of their population has no worries when it comes to health care access. Maybe you were thinking about those countries when you responded to my post.
Random, In a country of 320 million, the proportion of uninsured is somewhat less than 10%. However, the Congress and this President just had to ram this down our throat so the entire country can suffer the consequences. 20 new taxes enforced by the IRS, rationed care, exchanges offering Medicaid coverage for all and they wonder why we aren’t happy about what came down. We will make our voices heard in November.
So you naysayers are of the mindset that you should not be forced to buy healthcare insurance and that you should be able to walk into any hospital uninsured and receive medical treatment. That is your stance on this?
I would love to hear your solutions to this problem or maybe you don’t have a solution and you are good with the status quo. You expect me to continue to subsidize your uninsured self when you need help.
Really????
Scottsdaleslim – most of us “naysayers” believe that we should be trying to make healthcare more affordable. If it were, insurance would not be needed. This whole issue stems from the high costs that doctors and hospitals charge; and most importantly the governments permittance of illegals and non-workers to benefit without paying into the system.
I strongly believe that you should pay for the treatment you get. If you can’t pay, no treatment. It may sound harsh, but it is the only way we can salvage this mess.
If the government weren’t corrupt and wasteful, I might agree with this bill. But the truth is… they don’t care at all about you. They just want to control you and your money.
“If you can’t pay, no treatment.”
Sorry, that’s just stupid.
You are walking down the street and a car losing control and hits you. You are bleeding, unconscious, and need immediate medical attention or you will die. The ambulance shows up. Hmmm, does he have health insurance? they ask. Before we treat him and take him to the emergency room, let’s root through his wallet to see if he has a health insurance card. Not carrying a health insurance card? Oh well, sorry for you. Or, oh yes, he has a health insurance card. But before we treat him, let’s call the number on the back of the card to see if the coverag eis still valid, whether he has enough benefits left to cover him. And if he has a co-payment. Let’s sift through his wallet to see if he has enough to cover the co-payment.
I think you took what I said too far out of context TOPOV – as most libs do.
Obviously emergency care is needed. But you still need to pay. After treatment is given you should be required to pay monthly payments or something along those lines. You shouldn’t be able to get treatment for free – while others have to.
Use your brain.
To clarify… if it is not an emergency (like cancer) – and you can’t pay – no treatment.
There is no reason for anyone to have to forego care because they are poor. So, you’re of the mindset that poor people should just be left to die! Really? I’m not anywhere near poor, but I could NEVER refuse care based on money. That’s heartless! You do not have to be a Republican or a Democrat to know that!
It was not that long ago in this country that if you did not have the ability to pay you went to the county hospital and received necessary treatment. If it was an emergency then you were transported to the nearest facility stabalized and then transfered to county. Now with medicare a hospital must treat everyone if they are going to accept medicare patients. Sorry but if I have made the decision to financially take care of myself and my family I should not have to wait in line behind a bunch of folks that are going to do nothing but increase my bill because they can not pay. This is outrageous, medical care is not a right and sometimes life is not fair.
nobama-2012
Responding to Bob’s comment: OK, so people used to go to county facilities — but who do you think was actually footing the cost of that? Gee… maybe it was subsidized by the fees charged to other patients? I fail to see how what you’re describing is any different from what you’re railing against.
This scenario could play out here in years to come without an affordable health care law. Just last month, one of my coworkers had a relative who lives in Bulgaria and fell ill while walking in a major downtown area. He works and makes a living there. Emergency medical came to the scene and did some assessment but did not take him to a hospital since he did not have insurance (most don’t). He later died at home that week for lack of treatment for a heart attack.
Jill:
That would be an abnormality. Don’t talk about crap you don’t know. My father just died in a similar circumstance to what you’re talking about so I know the way an emergency is treated with the hospital.
He survived for a couple weeks, and he was in the hospital that whole time. And they did take him to the hospital at the first signs. They didn’t even check into his insurance numbers until we were close to leaving. For all they knew he didn’t have insurance.
You are full of crap.
And to give another example: My uncle had a heart attack in his 40’s.
He was an independant architect. He did not have insurance. My father helped him with the bill later on.
He had a much more mild heart attack and had come in saying he just had mild chest pains. But they kept him in the hospital, put in a stent, and made sure he was ok before releasing him.
Again: You’re full of crap.
The early part of Obama’s attempt to overhaul the system was to confront hospitals and other providers about the costs they pass on to insurance companies. But, both parties in congress wilted under that challenge and the President was forced to use a more centrist approach and adopted Romny’s MA model. Basically when it came time to confront the doctors and hospitals and their outrageous charging habits created by years of passing on inflated charges to insurance companies, nobody had the guts to follow through.
So, Random, Alan Grayson is correct when he says the Republican plan is, “Don’t get sick. And, if you get sick, die quickly.” That’s not the America I wish to live in. I think “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” says it all. Life – to live. In order to live, one needs to be healthy. In order to be healthy, one must receive care, both preventative and reactive. This bill does that. And, it’s Constitutional. Standing O for The President and The Supreme Court. The right is not the only energized side going into November. If he got this done, what else can he accomplish in 4 years? He’s righting a lot of wrongs and is moving this country in a positive direction. Many out there will disagree, and that’s okay. That’s what makes this country so great. We can disagree and take it to the polls. See you there!
Apparently Planet, you didn’t note that Obamacare puts in the bureaucrat committees aka Death Panels which will rule out needed procedures for seniors and instead will give them end of life counseling. Sorry seniors, no hip replacement, heart stints or any other treatment because your life is over and you are no longer a productive citizen. Even though you paid into Social Security your whole life and paid the Medicare premiums, you don’t deserve treatment. This system will quickly devolve into what Great Britain has now. That is legalized euthanasia where 130,000 Brits are put on the pathway to death. This is not exactly a humane way to treat the greatest generation, is it?
There are no death panels. That’s absolute Fox News Sarah Palinism garbage. But, be afraid. That’s the point. First Agent, I think you are a pretty smart person. Don’t fall for this one, it’s not true. Have you read the bill? I actually did.
So Planet, if you think Allan Grayson was correct in his condemnation of the Republican plan, why didn’t the good people of his district vote him back in? As I recall, he lost by a fairly big margin. The Republican plan was never considered by the majority in Congress and Nancy & Harry & Obama were determined to ram their plan down our throats anyway they could. Even at that, with large majorities in the House & Senate with threats, kickbacks, not reading the bill before voting on it, they barely got it passed. Why do you think the Democrats took such a shellacking in the mid terms? Why do you think the House changed hands? Now, it is up to the people to change out the Senate and the Presidency so we can get something done that makes sense and is much more affordable than this 20 new tax Progressive nightmare.
You as an american should not be forced to buy anything you dont want – cant afford. This is not affordable. This will tax everyong for years to come right out of any incentive to get ahead – to get a job. I will not hire another full time person – ever. I will have no incentive to grow my business other then to pay more taxxes to cover this bill.
Scott Walker – The WHite House is calling you!
Obama may have skated past this decision, but it will only serve to further mobilize Americans to vote him out in November along with his minions in the House & Senate. Romney renewed his pledge to repeal this beast and we will hold him to it when he is elected. Romney will also be able to nominate probably 3 new Supreme Court Justices and let’s hope he does better than John Roberts next time. I just wonder if there are any qualified Conservative Judges out there who won’t cave to Progressivism like Roberts did.
Rusty – great post.
Maybe this will be Obama’s death blow…our only chance to get this thing killed is to elect Romney.
Riiiight.
Romney. The guy who’s own healthcare plan was the blueprint for the Affordable Healthcare Act. But he’s totally against now. Really. He is.
There is no insurance mandate in Romney’s plan. Obama may have used it, but Romney by no means stamped off on the changes.
Two plans regarding health insurance are not the same just because they both involve health care reform.
And just because Obama claims his health care reform was made from Romney’s doesn’t make it true. As soon as Romney says “no, I had nothing to do with your plan” and he also didn’t vote for it, well then, the two plans are clearly different, and Romney didn’t support it at all from day one.
Don’t act like a kid trying to say how everything is the same. It’s not.
Bob – let’s look at what Mr. Romney has said:
In July 2009, Mitt Romney called on President Obama to require Americans to buy insurance as part of his health care plan, using “tax penalties” as a backstop — in other words, the individual mandate that Republicans virulently oppose.
In a USA Today op-ed titled “Mr. President, what’s the rush?,” which is also available on MittRomneyCentral.com, Romney urged Obama to “learn a thing or two about health care reform” from his Massachusetts plan that contained the same policy, and touted it as effective.
“First, we established incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance,” Romney wrote. “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages ‘free riders’ to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others.”
During a March 2006 news conference, in which then-Gov. Romney said, “With regards to the individual mandate, the individual responsibility program that I proposed, I was very pleased that the compromise between the two houses includes the personal responsibility mandate.” In a television clip of the event, Mr. Romney called the Massachusetts requirement that people buy health-care coverage “essential for bringing the health care costs down for everyone and getting everyone the health insurance they need.”
In April 2006 when the bill passed the Massachusetts legislature’s conference committee, Mr. Romney addressed the employer mandate that penalized some companies for not offering health insurance, saying such a penalty is “It is a fee, it’s an assessment,” he said. He added that the fee was being assessed on those who were “abusing the free care pool.”
There is video footage from 2006 if you care to fact-check.
Planet: People say what they say, and saying a form of a tax penalty is not the same as a mandate.
I’m sorry, it’s just not. A $750 fee is not a tax penalty. Romney likely was referring to a tax bracket system with incentives and of the sorts. Usually, when republicans talk about a tax system it include INCENTIVES as well as fees.
Regardless: Does Romney’s system include a mandate? I don’t care about anything else you say as you don’t have relevant facts to the situation. What you said was slightly true. But if it was Romney’s idea: WHY IS IT NOT IN ROMNEY’S PLAN?
Focus kid. Focus.
Well I’ll keep it shorter since you’ll question everything that does not matter in my last comment:
A tax penalty system is not a mandate. Just because a Justice Judge says it is does not make it so.
Kid? No, actually not. I wish, I miss those days. My main point is, Romney was for it before he was against it. Just like everything else that comes out of his mouth because, as he said, “I’m running for office for Pete’s sake.”
My main point: Romney’s plan doesn’t have the mandate in it.
Your main point is moot. If he was for it before he was against it doesn’t matter. People change their minds all the time.
What they DO do matters, not what they think about doing.
The fact that you have not figured out this simple fact makes me think you are lying about your age.
So the main point that matters: Romney is against a mandate. Romney’s plan didn’t put in a mandate. Claiming that Romney’s plan being in place in Massachussets makes him somehow two faced, is my friend, a blatant misleading comment or a twisted one at best.
But if you do want to go on the he was before it before he was against it argument:
Obama was against gay marriage before he was for it. Now he’s going to make measures to pursue it.
So do you think he changed his mind? Or is he buying the gay vote and he’s misleading people by making such a statement? There is more evidence of Obama being the type of guy who would do that than Romney. Yet you are pissed off at Romney for this, rather than looking at his policies.
So the heck what, if they change their mind to buy voters? Am I calling Obama sleazy for changing his mind? No. I’m calling him bad for his policies. You’re more mad that Romney may have changed his mind than you are happy that he put in a policy like Obama’s (I’m assuming that you do believe that their plans are similar, this is from your point of view which I don’t believe it myself).
If you are going to have a logic: Be consistent.
Isn’t this a mandate? Seems to be to me. It uses the word:
http://www.mass.gov/dor/businesses/help-and-resources/legal-library/tirs/tirs-by-years/2012-releases/tir-12-2.html
Hey Planet, I don’t care if it was Romney’s Plan, Obama/Pelosi/Reid’s plan or the Tides Foundation’s plan. They are all equally bad. The difference between Romney and Obama is that he learned something about government controlled Healthcare and realized it was inherently bad and now pledges to do something about it. Obama will never learn and sticks to his ideology. From reports I have seen, Romneycare has been a disaster in Massachusetts and is generating a sizable deficit in that state. Hello! Wake up and smell the coffee. These things don’t work and bankrupt states and this nation.
I just have to point something out:
I’ll cave on the mandate. I won’t cave on these being different plans. The individual mandate under Obama works nothing like the link you provided.
If it was based off of Romney’s it resembles it not. Have you looked at the fee structure in Obama’s mandate plan? It is not as detailed as this.
Out of the two Romney’s is better. So again: You’re problem with Romney is that he doesn’t like Obama’s? Even if I’m wrong on the mandate issue, Romney takes issue with the fact that his plan is good Obama’s is bad.
And wait a second…How did I not realize that states choosing mandates actually is different than Federal.
Must be because my dad died recently.
Romney’s plan is the best for another reason: It allows other options to exist. Once you have a federal plan multiple states cannot have different methods.
Example and case in point: Worker’s comp insurance being monopolistic. Most states that were switched away from it. If it were federal, no one would be able to show in practice that something was better than another way. The 50 states are 50 states for a reason.
Federal law is absurd.
Romney is going to uphold it IF he wins against Obama. Either way, the plan will be upheld! Obama2012!
http://www.multiplechoicemitt.com
Bob, I actually celebrate the many accomplishments our current President has achieved. Of course he’s playing politics. That’s what politicians do. I would be willing to bet, though I don’t know for certain, Obama has been fine with the LBGT movement for some time and never voiced it because supporting it has been, frankly, bad politics up until now. President Obama has not Mitt-flopped on just about every single issue like Romney has. I encourage you to check out the above linked website.
No sir, I am not lying about my age. And, I do like to have the conversation. First Agent and I have them out here quite a bit. We may have agreed once or twice, but it’s still good. It’s beneficial to have perspective. At least I think so.
Have a good weekend, Bob. Hopefully it starts sooner than later, right?
Bob, sorry about your dad, I just read that in your post.
BS – ObamaCare is HillaryCare. It’s been on the shelf since 1994 at the DNC. The community organizer didn’t have the time nor the finances to write this bill while he was running for president. It was complete nad waiting for a Democrat Majority to be shoved down our throats.
Actually, it stems from the Heritage Foundation’s response to HillaryCare. Bob Dole was pushing this plan back when the Republicans were for it.
Planet, had our politicians been listening to the American People instead of trying to ram something through Congress and down our throats, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I really don’t care if it was a RINO, Hilary Clinton, Ted Kennedy or Barack Obama doing the proposing on Healthcare. The law passed is bad on so many levels, it is untenable and will lead to disastrous consequences for this country.
Heritage’s plan focused on CDHPs – at the time MSA plans. It didn’t rename the formerly known as “Health Insurance Purchasing Cooperatives” to “Exchange” which is tentacle of singlepayer. This plan has Ira Magaziner’s fingerprints all over it. The individual mandate they stole. The rest is HillaryCare.
The mandate was upheld as a tax and not under the Commerce clause. But it was not passed as a tax. It was passed as a mandate & penalty so it should have been struck down pending Congressional reauthorization; but it was upheld.
If we must go this way,why can’t this whole thing just be replaced with Flexible Spending Accounts.
We are living in Bizzaro World.
The solution, as always, is to vote the SOB’s that wrote this monstrous attack on the average American’s pocketbook out of office. Put your vote where your mouth is and VOTE in November!!
you better put your money where your mouth and vote is too.
I am totally fed up with decisions being made by judges and politcians that affect me. So far, this Administration has done everything I am opposed to. The American people need to vote on these important issues, not have a few people make decisions that will impact the entire nation.
You were opposed to killing Bin Laden?
Random- I agree that if you as an adult willfully shirk your responsibility to buy healthcare and then find you need it but can’t pay for it, you get no service.
I am sure news of the deaths of untreated because they chose not to buy would make more people take note. As an able bodied adult, people need to do the responsible thing. Do I like government imposing that, NO. Unfortunately without the voice of government, people would continue to work the system.
With respects to comments about illegals, I say give all of them a social security number with a marker defining them as not citizens. Allow them to work here and pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for at least five years with no recognition that they have paid anything into the system until the five years are up. At that point, they could apply for citizenship and and any payments going forward would accrue benefits for them. What we have to stop is employers paying people under the table and immigrants taking other people’s social security numbers.
Bravo!
Well we now know that the Constitution and Biii Of Rights are on their last legs. This just GREECES(LOL) the skids.
Since they teach Darwinism in school(Survival and adaption and evolution of the fittest) let the same go for insurance.
1. Health Insurance is the most important coverage. Without your health, you become a burden on society. However, you can choose to be irresponsible though not at the expense of responsible people.
2. Life insurance is second since if you are health and a productive member of society, your family relies on you for its survival and well-being.
3. Property insurance is third, because if you are healthy, living and productive, your family may need the shelter and clothing you provide protected.
4. Liability is least important since life is a risk. If you cause somebody harm that does not have 1, 2 and 3, that’s their problem. Let them suffer.
Unfortuantely, our system requires these in reverse order. Attornies and politicians have created solutions to problems that never existed if people had been personally responsible.
The only insurance that is required is Health Insurance, as of this ruling.
Wayne, Have fun paying for it now that your employer is not required to give it to you. They only have to pay a fine for each employee they do not cover. Hope you find a good policy written by the government oh, and I hope you like it because you will not be able to change it. Your employer, with the savings he obtains from cancelling your policy will probably buy a supplement to his crappy health plan that we all have, probably just like a medicare sup. He will get really good care.
Gov Walker in Wisconsin had not yet begun to implement the law. Now that the law was upheld, he has said he still will not begin to implement the law. I wonder, does he have the legal authority to do that?
Someone needs to stand up and fight this. GO SCOTT WALKER!
Yeah, the fight already happened and you lost.
132 days and the clock is ticking Planet. Enjoy your moment in the sun while you can. As Yogi Berra used to say, it ain’t over until it’s over.
Well, if Obama ignores federal law and fails to deport illegals, I guess Walker can follow suit and decide to ignore federal laws as well!
I sense a revolution. Woot! It’s time for some real change.
The Federal Goverment will set it up for WI or any other state left pouting, as I understand it.
Yet another step for the administration of entitlement. Those of us who pay support those who will now rely EVEN MORE on the government dole. The system is broker and SCOTUS’s ruling is another nail in the coffin of independence and self-reliance. No longer the America I remember.
Well, time to quit my job and become a leach on society. Just send me your hard earned dollars directly you me. Cant think of anything more un American then OBama. Lets let China forclose on the huhe debt that OBama racked up to them and go straight to Commi.
Thank you for increase drasticlly the amount of leaches on the system.
We have one major underlying problem in this great country. Greed! There is nothing wrong with working hard and striving to “better ones self,” but when that “betterment” comes at the “expense of others” rather than the “benefit of others” – then I think we have a serious ethical problem.
There is now.
You’re right. It seems working hard has gotten a bad name!
Yes. YOU are the serious problem. What you say: “benefit of others” is nothing more than a dummying down of our society. What you’re saying is: “Bring DOWN those who have EARNED success. Let those who are down, stay down.” Why strive for success…let someone else give you a piece of their pie. After all, the government- aka taxpayer dollars from hard working people-will make sure that you don’t even try to bake one!
One of the other problems in this great country is that we have a generation that is already dumbed down. The ability to read and understand a concept and the point being made is at an all time low.
SteveB, I think you are onto something. We have had several decades of SEIU infested public schools not teaching history or much of anything and kids are not being taught how to think critically. They are fed liberal propoganda and told they are entitled. The ones who do go to college get another big dose of it from liberal professors. By the time they get out, they are not equipped to do anything with their liberal arts degrees. Anyone who has had a good course of Econ 101 knows that the Progressive Socialist system does not and has not worked anywhere in the world.
First Agent – It has been a pleasure reading your posts, and not because we are on the same wavelength, but because of your clear thinking and process. I am saddened by the hyper emotion that this has evoked as some of the posts speak for themselves. We all need to be calm in order to solve any issue. As a note: We are going to find this program is the most tax ladened government program we have ever seen. There are more taxes in this program than I can even name. It is incredible how the government can still think they are the answer to all of our problems – contrary to history.
Thank you SteveB. I am an old dude, but still have a few brain cells to express my opinion. I also have a degree in Economics. When I was in school, the professors were not like they are now. We studied every economic system tried in every part of the world. They were careful to explain what each system was about. There is no perfect economic system, but Capitalism got the highest grades and Socialism, Communism, Marxism got the worst grades because they stifle freedom and innovation and were utter failures everywhere they have been tried. We also studied Keynes who promotes spending, priming the pump to achieve prosperity. That has proven to be a total failure as well and our politicians who believe it keep trying to spend their way to prosperity. Our national debt is now $16 Trillion. How is that working out for us?
Since the mandate is now a tax, that portion of the premium I pay for health insurance is a tax. I guess that means my tax return will increase since I will have this tax of over $4000 already paid. It makes it advantageous for me to buy a better policy since the amount I pay will be counted as a tax.
I’m sure they’ll fix that.
Wayne, You didnt understand the ruling. The court did nothing to the tax code. You will not be able to write off your cost of insurance. LOL! Don’t get too exited yet. You will have to pay the whole cost and unable to write off any of your healthcare including the cost of your 26 year old failure to launch liberal kid.
I think Wayne was being sarcastic. I read it as a tongue in cheek comment.
Let’s just wait until November so it can be repealed. Or you can move to another country.
or you…
Seems to me most other modern/western countries have national health care. Hmmm….
And they are going bankrupt as well. Does Greece and Spain ring a bell with you?
Always, Flipside is looking at everything with rose colored glasses. He probably has been spending his time downloading apps on his ipad instead of paying attention to world news and what is going on in Europe. Great Britain is now euthenizing senior citizens at the rate of 130,000 each year. They put them on the pathway to death and provide no treatment at all. How is that for a Healthcare system? It will be much the same here in a few years unless this piece of trash is repealed.
Like Canada.
I think it’s time for Texas to sever its ties with Washington.
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.
Washington needs us more than we need them. We’ll take our chances, thank you!
SCOTUS – “Obamacare” – The Largest Tax Increase in the History of the USA! Good Job Democrats in Congress, now you have to defend it! You can not blame Bush for this one! See you in November!
The mandate was defined as a tax. The commerce clause was upheld by Roberts. By defining the mandate as a tax, it precludes the unconstitutionality of the mandate had it been considered within the commerce clause. Roberts made an objective ruling. I can’t argue with that. But, yes, we’re heading down a path to Socialism. We can stop this progression in it’s tracks- GET OUT THERE AND VOTE IN NOVEMBER!
I do not think the democratss understand that everyone of us will have to pay for our own healthcare now. Our boss told me today after a few in the office were saying that they were happy about the ruling, That he could not wait to just pay the fine for each employee which equals about 1 or 2 months premiums and make us all pay for our own coverage through one of the new insurance exchanges. He had previously paid all of our cost of health insurance. He stated now he has cover to cancel that policy and save over 120K a year in health insurance premiums. Yikes! Now I know why some small business owners are happy.
Previous to this ruling, the estimates of 30-40% of small business owners said they would cancel their Group Health if Obamacare stayed. Now, it will be 60-70% and their employees will be thrown into the exchanges for Medicaid like coverage. I hope these employees enjoy their new coverage and paying for it themselves. They just got a new burden added by this ruling.
I am thrilled as an insurance agent that this passed “muster”! My daughter who just graduated college in May without a job can remain insured; those who choose to be uninsured will be taxed to pay for their care; as it should be , in my opinion!
Jay, Do you pay for coverage or do you have a good job with benefits? If so! You now will have to pay for your coverage. Your employer will cancel their policy a pay a one time fine for doing so. Now you will have the choice of which plan that YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR!
We all eat food,and its good for you. Does that mean the government can create a new tax that I have to pay so they can feed me spinach, I hate spinach, but because they think it is good for me and it will lower the cost for spinach for someone else who likes it. Is it right for the Government to make me eat spinach and then pay a tax so others who like it get it cheaper? Hmmmmm………
Somehow I just dont think this was a win for Obama politically!
Time for a new TEA party!!!!
I don’t know, Sarah. But, if you don’t watch what you eat, you may develop a disease. This disease may have killed you, but thanks to no pre-existing conditions and no lifetime limits, you are still alive after a successful operation and free to go about eating whatever you would like to eat. Oh, and if you’d like to, you can be pre-screened for that disease as part of the free preventative care you are now granted to pursue at your leisure. This is a good thing. The exchanges between the states are going to reduce costs, too. My company isn’t cancelling any coverage. That’s a scare tactic. I don’t see that being as full-blown as Fox and others are making it out to be.
Food is more medically necessary than Sandra Fluke’s birth control pills are. With this ruling, the “health police” will be taxing all of your supposed “bad” behaviors, and you’ll be getting an EOB for toilet paper, dental floss and the premanufactured chicken dinner because it was cooked in non-transfat oil. You’ll swipe your healthcare card at the supermarket, and it’ll count as a covered expense on your government healthcare plan. Also, to avoid any healthcare penalty, you’ll have to bootleg cigars, cigarettes, alcohol and BBQ to avoid the soon-to-be-implemented food police division of the ATF.
No way will they do premanufactured chicken dinners. Do you have any idea what goes into the feed they fatten the chicken up with? Not to mention, the amount of high fructose corn syrup in premanned food? Too much tax comes in from cigars, cigarettes, and alcohol. Those are safe. I’m sure glad I don’t live in that scary world you are describing.
I did a double take Market when you were talking about toilet paper and swiping in the next sentence. I agree that we will have the Food Police if we keep the Progressives in charge in November. Michelle started it with the school kids and them eating Broccoli and Carrots in school and one of the SEIU teachers confiscated a perfectly good lunch from a student because it didn’t fit their definition. These people all have to go. I am sick of them trying to tell America what to do.
Anyone see the EBC Wellfare, Food Stamp ads running on TV. Talking about how there is nothing wrong with being on food stamps and its ok go ahead have a party with all of your older friends and join the ranks of americans enjoying the food stamp program.
I thought this was supposed to be the greatest generation. If so Obama got them wrong with this add. I was taught by this generation that taking a hand out was disgraceful and you should work hard and pay your bills and support your own family, not take wellfare!
Another area where Obama got it wrong. Time for Hoping for a real Change back to what we once had!
Agreed. Obama has created an “entitlement” society. People are graduating college and expect to earn 100K right out of the shoot instead of taking jobs lower on the totem pole and working their way up the ranks like everyone else did. I ME MINE. The TV adds for Welfare is a disgrace for this country. Granted there are a lot of people out of work right now – but Obama seems to think that the private sector is doing just fine. What Planet in God’s Universe is he on? How man illegals are on Welfare? I bet there are a lot of them an we tax payers are fitting the bill on that one as well. And speaking of companies dropping healthcare, AT&T stated a long time ago this was exactly what they were going to do it Obama care was upheld. Time will tell.
This blog will sent the all time record for IJ for comments. I agree Amazed. These failure to launch college graduates can stay on their parents policy til 26, go to the OWS marches and play on their iphones to their hearts content because they cannot find a job and will not even look after a while. Who is going to pay their $200,000 college loan? Some are now disillusioned because they thought they could just start right out with a high paying job and it isn’t there. If they don’t have Daddy’s business to move into, they will just languish and sap off the system.
Obama “created” an entitlement society. Really? You are giving him way too much credit! Wow! Bush reduced the unemployment benefits and now you’re blaming Obama.
Entitlement society came about before Obama. It’s when sports teams and little leagues no longer keeps score, and everyone gets a trophy. Grades are assigned for subjective creativity instead of rote knowledge – we have created a generation of narcissists. They know how to stretch a condom on a banana, but they don’t know how to balance their own checkbook, or that they need to start investing for retirement as soon as they start working. And, yes, they feel they deserve $100k straight out of school, but they have no drive to earn it.
We have only to blame ourselves for electing such an idiot as Obama! Maybe in November we will understand the consequences of our votes for President and Senate and House of reps! WE HAVE GOTTEN WHAT WE DESERVE!
DO YOUR RESEARCH ON ISSUES! Make sure you do not vote because of the skin color, gender, style or ability to give a speach! Vote next time for the person who will lead us away from Socialism and financial destruction! THIS WILL BE THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIVES IN NOVEMBER!
Watch “Media Malpractice”. http://howobamagotelected.com/
Who voted for him? Don’t lump me in with those automatons!
The right to PERSONAL PROPERTY! Roberts, in his miniscule cerebral condition, has just opened the door to Government sponsored RAPE of the American people. In his decision he wrote, using Brocolli and transportation in his analogy to rationalize his confusion, to the governments right to tax users. His ramblings should be looked at under the guidelines of DSMIII, and then his continiued tenure in his exalted position can be challenged through mental incompetence.
Well, let me see- Social Security a failure from a government management standpoint.
The post Office- essentially broke.
Job market- worse than ever
Wars, lets see- He did not pull out of Irag, Escalated Afganhistan and help start a third with Syria. Not to mention alienate Israel.
close Guantanamo in a year- Ha, nope
Transparency in his admin- Lie
Medicare and Medicaid- a mess and going to get worse. By the way, my brother (An American citizen) had three back operations and could not get a release from a doctor even if he could go back to work filed for disability. It took three years and he had no support in between (except me). He went down to apply for medicaid at my encouragement and was turned down because he was 1.) a male, 2.) 40 years old 3.) he was white and 4.) did not have a bunch of illegitimate children. The illegal alien at the counter next to him got $500.00 in emergency assistance and moved to the head of the medicaid line because he had listed several children (also illegal aliens). By the way the children live in Mexico.
As far as I am concerned Obummer has done nothing but send this country down the path of bankruptcy and socialism. If I were giving him a performance review I would skip the review and fire him.
I think termination is a light penalty. I’m thinking jail time.
You know what Sargent? Social Security was not a failure and was solvent until LBJ got his grubby paws on it and moved it into the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty and Great Society entitlement programs which continue to be a burden on this country. To add insult to injury, Al Gore cast the deciding vote to tax Social Security benefits. I agree with your major points. We have to make sure we send the Messiah back to Chicago in November.
I agree, three years and this is what you have to show for your time on the job? If this was the case with any of us in the private sector, we’d have been terminated long before this for failure to perform our job duties at a competent level.
Mr. Obama has been given so many chances to do well, a congress with a large majority of his party, and yet what we get is a litany of blame, and no progress. Whining, crying and pitching a fit, all while living large on the taxpayer dime. Time to add Mr Obama and his White House staffers to the unemployment line.
We give our performance review with our vote, let’s all do so in November and give him an unacceptable and move on.
He gets paid for the rest of his life! You can’t send Obama to the unemployment line. Just saying! Obama2012! Romney’s a joke!
GoBama 2012! Holly, I’ll see you at the polls. I’m excited now. Heck, I might volunteer for President Obama’s campaign. I’ve already donated.
Austerity measures coming our way! In 10 years if our democracy makes it that far. We will not be able to sell our treasury bonds and the debt bubble will burst resulting in run away hyper inflation and a significant financial depression. The ruling today if not reversed, the promoting of wellfare benefits of food stamps will cause a rapid acceleration of these events. This financial catastrophe will happen very soon and most definately in our life time and most certainly in our childrens. SHAME ON US!
Sarah, These Progressives just don’t realize there is nothing left in the till. We already are $16 Trillion in debt and Obamacare will add $2.5 Trillion more if implemented. I can see runaway inflation in the near future since we are monitizing our debt and the printing presses run 24/7. Zimbabwe is the most recent example of money being worthless. The country should be ashamed at electing such worthless leaders for the past 40 years except Ronnie who was a real leader. The homos who gave his painting the finger in the White House should all be jailed.
“Homos”? Seriously? You are better than that. That type of rhetoric doesn’t belong on this post, no matter how angry you are. They are practicing freedom of speech. Just like Rush calling Michelle “Moo-chelle” and all of the other wonderfully racist commentary that comes out of his pill-popping pie hole.
You are right Planet. I am very angry at our first Gay President inviting this trash into the White House so they can give the finger to the painting of the greatest President of the 20th Century. The White House and all the leaders that came before should have been respected even if the people that go through there don’t agree with their policies or Presidency. Any respectful person would never have done that. That wasn’t free speech, it was an obscene gesture and should not be condoned by you or any of your liberal friends. It is shameful behavior.
I don’t agree with it, First Agent. But, it is a form of free speech, just a fact. I don’t think it was right, either. Goes against the Golden Rule. Shameful behavior indeed.
Planet, This White House will need a thorough fumigation in January, new paint, change out the muslim drapes (if you have noticed). When Slick Willy left, he garbaged the whole computer system and destroyed all hard drives. I am sure there will not be a hard drive on the premises when all these minions and Czars leave the premises. They certainly don’t want anyone to know what they were up to for 4 years.
Dear Random: You are right jail time would be appropriate and not the county jail.
First Agent: You are also correct concerning Social Security. Originally, I believe the money that was placed in Social Security was to be in an irrevocable trust to be used only for Social Security purposes. Then LBJ got ahold of it and moved it to the general and used it to fund whatever the Democrats wanted.They issued government IOUs to “cover any shortfall”. Also, let us not forget that Bill Clinton balanced the budget by taking money from Social Security and issuing government IOUs. If private business did that the officers would all be in jail for robbing a pension fund.They would not be in the county jail either.
You are right Sargent. FDR promised Social Security would always be in a separate fund and not to be touched by the government to pay for anything else. It would still be solvent except for Progressive Democrats and RINO’s who stole the money. LBJ should have been put in jail for that stunt, but he was powerful enough to ram it through, much like Obamacare was this time. It is time that the folks dismiss all these people. November can’t come soon enough.
It seems to me that there are things we are all forgetting. Regardless of where you stand politically, I doubt that anyone here believes that health care should be an option only for those who can afford it. Yes, it is too expensive and much still needs to be done to address this issue. And while there may be some who are going without insurance by choice, I have to believe that many people are making that choice based on other need such as food and shelter and hoping that they are lucky enough not to need it. I have known people who have lost that bet–losing their homes and assets because of unanticipated medical bills; I even know of one man who lost his life after the company where we worked shut down, no COBRA coverage was available and with his pre-existing condition, premiums were higher than the unemployment compensation he was receiving. He found a new job after a year, but before the 3 month waiting period for insurance was up his liver failed and no hospital would touch him without insurance or a $250,000 cash deposit up front for the needed liver transplant. He didn’t have it and he died.
These weren’t deadbeats or losers but rather a small business owner and a man who had worked all his life until the economic downturn left him without a job. While I respect that there are those who chose not to pay for health care because they are young or healthy I know that they may not understand the risk they are taking.
I have a friend who is 85 and whose father was a doctor back during the days of the depression. She reminds me that things were not always like this and that physicians and hospitals and medical workers were compassionate and often provided care even when individuals could not pay everything they owed. Unfortunately, those days appear to be gone. We have come to rely on the government to provide for those who can’t because we are too busy many times with our own lives and needs.
There is no easy solution. I do hope that in time the results are better and more positive than many believe they will be right now. This article on the Massachusetts health care initiative on which the national legislation is patterned gives me some hope. Perhaps it will for you as well. (link below)
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/02/13/146701343/health-care-in-massachusetts-abject-failure-or-work-in-progress
I just saw a segment on California. Looks like the City of Stockton is filing for bankruptcy and will be the largest city bankruptcy in history. In addition to that the news station said that another 20% of California cities could go BK in the next 6 to 12 months. In addition the State of California has a $15Billion dollar budget deficit, the largest by far in the US. So what does California have in common with the Federal government?
* A spend spend, spend, borrow more money and spend again budget plan. I find it interesting that California’s budget deficit is $15 Billion. The US deficit $15 Trillion. The only difference- The zeros.
* liberal, if any, immigration laws which is a huge drain on the taxpayer and the state. llegals in California get their kids healthcare, a free education, welfare and medicaid benefits as well as the adults. The parents also get a drivers license and do not have to pay taxes. When they do file they do so on a ITIN and list more children than they have, commit fraud and walk away with a huge refund check. They ge paid to be illegal. Just like Obama who has done nothing but encourage illegal immigration with his recent decision.
* the state cow tows to unions just like Obama. The state unions end up with huge pension liabilities and free healthcare for life.
It is time to find new management- vote in November
Sargent, Stockton is just the first example of cities that are going belly up in California. More are on the brink. They are paying the piper for government largesse now. Is it any wonder that businesses are fleeing that state right and left? Their governments answer is to continue to raise taxes. Gee, I wonder if that will solve their problem.
50% of the population currently pays no taxes. What makes the government think that this $750 “tax” will be paid by the people who cannot afford healthcare? If they aren’t paying taxes currently, then they certainly cannot pay taxes in the future. What’s more astonishing is the law prevents the IRS from taking criminal action against those that do not pay the tax. So that $750 tax that was supposed to fund the expansion of medicaid, yeah, that’s not happening.
Finally read Roberts’ statement: “it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance.” Even he is saying that only those with a certain level of income will have to pay this tax. Read that as, “the 1% will continue to support this country, as the majority continues to avoid taxation.”
I assume that many of the liberal bloggers on this article are part of the Middle or Upper Middle Class in this country. Do they realize that this bill is the largest middle class tax hike in history? When the Bush tax breaks expire at the end of the year, there will be a double whammy. All of this will serve to increase unemployment and stymie the economy as more and more business owners drop their Group Health rather than face the increased costs. Millions of employees will be told their Health Insurance will be dropped and they will be on their own to find coverage in the exchanges. I am sure they will find that the Medicaid type coverage offered in the exchanges will be substandard at best. This bill is the biggest disincentive for hiring ever devised. Higher taxes and higher unemployment is not a good formula to recover this economy. Unless it is overturned, we are looking at a Banana Republic not far into the future. By the way, this President promised he would look after the Middle Class and would not raise their taxes. HMM. Looks like he just did and will be doing more in the near future.
Well today we clearly see that our court is purely been infected by the politicians that put them on the bench, our Chief justice has shown his lack of integrity, or played on our “believed” ignorance, either way this ruling is patently wrong, and yes, I have been involved with law as a lay person for 25 years, no way, on many other grounds, is this thing constitutional. The majority means nothing to the bench. We have 50 Billion a year of medicaid fraud, and now these immature politicians, and immature liberal justices,has opened a flood gate to 10 times that, I promise you punishing under this law will be vigorous and finding the billions of dollars the the fraud will go unpunished. It’s clear that we need to set aside our values, which for me is near impossible, and steal everything we can get our hands on, like our politicians, seems everything they see they twist and pervert it and then sell it on us or ram it down our throat…. Use the power of the vote this year, vote wisely.
I remember a slogan used about 20 years ago, “READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES” Well we are seeing it again from Obama!
REPEAL AND REPLACE!
I agree Sarah. He got up at the State of the Union speech and promised the middle class they would not see one red cent increase in their taxes. Bush Sr paid the price for his “Read my Lips” statement. Obama will pay the price for his broken promise since he will be presiding over the largest tax increase to the middle class in history. We are tired of the lies, distortions and the Chicago way. Enough is enough.
Let’s check the “greatest tax increase on the middle class in history” comment, shall we?
Using a method perfected by Jerry Tempalski, an analyst in the Office of Tax Analysis with the U.S. Department of the Treasury. In 2006, Tempalski tried to determine the relative impact of major tax revenue bills from 1940-2006. He used revenue estimates from Treasury and the Joint Committee on Taxation and calculated the impact as a percentage of GDP.
For 1940-1967 calculations, he used a single-year snapshot of the revenue impact of the tax legislation. For more recent tax bills, from 1968-2006, Tempalski used a two-year average of the revenue effects. Tempalski wrote: “The comparison of tax bills for the first period should be examined with some caution, because the revenue estimates are from different sources and are not completely consistent. The comparison for the second period can be viewed with more confidence, because the estimates are relatively consistent.”
As a percent of GDP, here are the top five tax increases from 1940-2006, according to Tempalski:
1. Revenue Act of 1942: 5.04 percent of GDP;
2. Revenue Act of 1961: 2.2 percent of GDP;
3. Current Tax Payment Act of 1943: 1.13 percent of GDP;
4. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;
5. Excess Profits Tax of 1950: .97 percent of GDP;
And here are the top five tax increases from the “modern” era of 1968-2006:
1. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;
2. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982: .8 percent of GDP;
3(t): Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980: .5 percent of GDP
3(t): Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993; .5 percent of GDP;
5: Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990; .49 percent of GDP.
The 2010 health care law
The list obviously does not include the health care law, which passed in 2010, and a spokeswoman for the Department of Treasury says it hasn’t been updated. So we calculated our own percent of GDP figure. We used 2019 as our baseline because that’s when all of the tax provisions of the law will be in effect. In 2019, the CBO estimates, the government will see increased revenues of $104 billion. We then divided that number into the projected GDP for 2019, which according to the CBO economic forecast is $21.164 trillion. That would mean the tax increase provisions of the health care law would amount to .49 percent of total GDP.
Depending on your rounding, that would mean the tax increases resulting from the health care law would be about the size of tax increases proposed and passed in 1980 by President Jimmy Carter, in 1990 by President George H.W. Bush and in 1993 by President Bill Clinton.
The health care-related tax increases are smaller than the tax increase signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1982 and a temporary tax signed into law in 1968 by President Lyndon B. Johnson. And they are significantly smaller than two tax increases passed during World War II and a tax increase passed in 1961.
The tax increases in the health care legislation do reverse a trend of federal tax cuts and represent the first significant tax increases since 1993.
But they are not the largest in the history of the United States.
And — despite what Limbaugh said — that means they cannot be the largest ever in the history of world. Limbaugh’s inflated rhetoric takes a wrong claim and puts it into the realm of the ridiculous
Planet, your dissertation on taxes makes our point. We have had a runaway government spending program going on for decades. The Congress and previous administrations have reached across the aisle and decided we need even more government so why not tax the population even more to promote entitlement spending. Back in LBJ’s day, he decided to rob the Social Security Trust Fund and move it to the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty. Several trillion later, is poverty better now? Do we have a solvent Social Security Trust Fund? You are also wrong on the taxes imposed by Obamacare. Planet, the folks are tired of this and we don’t want to be France, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Greece who have bankrupted their economy to fund their entitlements. If you have been following current events, you would know Europe is in deep trouble and the Euro is about finished as a currency. When they implode, the US will suffer greatly since they are big trading partners with us.
My point – not the single greatest tax increase and the numbers back it up. First Agent, as usual, we don’t agree. But that’s okay. Happy 4th of July to you and yours!
Captain Planet makes reference to what “Limbaugh” says in several posts including one on July 3rd. I’d state the Facts instead. Recently, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) uncovered some of these hidden costs, and it is clear that the original $938 billion price (2 years ago) tag was only a low-ball estimate. The CBO now pegs the cost at nearly double – $1.79 trillion. Even worse, the CBO also estimates that nearly 20 million people could lose their employer-provided insurance due to the rising costs of Obamacare mandates.
You do not seem to realize nor do you state that ObamaCare will reduce coverage not increase it. ObamaCare effectively forces insurers to pay out more generous benefits but limits their ability to raise the revenue needed to do so. Consequently, many firms will go out of business.
The decline has already started. Aetna has pulled out of the individual insurance market in Colorado and Indiana and out of the small-group market in Michigan. The Iowa-based Principal Financial Group stopped selling health insurance entirely, leaving 840,000 people without coverage. And Unicare has stopped selling policies in Virginia.
Once the private insurance market has been destroyed, Americans will be forced to buy their health insurance on government-run “exchanges” where the government decides which health services should or should not be covered.
Facts, another interesting development on this issue. Remember the 26 states that sued in court over Obamacare and took it to the Supreme Court? Many of them are now saying they will not implement the exchanges for 2014. Hmm! If more than half the states say they will not implement the Obamacare mandated exchanges, what will HHS do about it? The states don’t have the money and the Feds don’t have the money to do it. Perhaps we won’t have to worry about it if we get repeal after November. In any case, these Progressives have misjudged the resistance to their wonderful legislation and as Yogi Berra has said, it ain’t over until it’s over and this is far from over.
I guess in your book, lack of integrity means a decision that goes against your opinion. Glad I don’t live in your world. You should read Robert’s opinion and review his past decisions before you go after the guy’s integrity.
I agree entirely D.
Likewise, I think you should take a look at Bush’s proposed Housing reform laws that were never passed, and likewise you should look at his retirement program, compare the two new forms of retirement programs he wanted to set up for people making under $100,000 a year, allowing them up to 10,000 tax deferred investments with tax free withdrawals at retirement. If you can name those two IRA policy names I’ll be impressed.
And likewise I think you should look at his overall integrity even though you don’t agree with his decisions.
Good luck with that.
Hypocrite.
And also like wise I think before saying Bush was against the middle class I think you should look at his method to make all businesses eligible for a full fledged version of a 401k instead of how I for example cannot have one and am limited to $11,500 of investments a year due to democrat restrictions on the firm types that can have a 401k full, which allows $16,500.
Maybe just maybe, he wasn’t at all against the middle class. And maybe you shouldn’t question his integrity D. Because that’s just ludicrous right? Feeling a little two faced right now?
It’s ok guys, butthurt is covered under the new plan.
Butthurt is not the same as logical consistency.
I think you confuse the two. He made a comment and I checked his logical consistency.
That’s not butthurt. I think smartass is covered too though ;)
Ah, it has become so clear that insurance people don’t give a dam about we sick ones. And I feel very ill and even worse as the fact so many materialists have become inhuman without human feelings. ‘Cuse me while I go throw up.
I find it interesting that people who pay no taxes, like a lot of those holding up signs in support of Obamatax, the occupy deadbeats and a lot of college students that elected Obama in 08 seem to think that the minority who do pay taxes are all well off. Fact of the matter is:
* The 1% that Obama refers to can’t balance the budget if they gave 100% of their incomes.
* The government could not balance the budget if the top 5 or even 10% of the working taxpayers gave 100% of their incoomes. Fact of the matter is that the top 10% of taxpayers pay approximately 75 to 80% of the taxes.
*So where do the occupy deadbeats, Obamatax supporters think the money will come from? Well let me guess: $1.76 Trillion on the “I ain’t buying insurance group” What a farce. If they are not paying taxes now and not buying insurance, who is going to track them down for a $750.00 tax? How about Fed sales tax? How about higher tax on Social Security? The message is everyone but dealdbeats and illegal aliens are going to have to pay. Why not make it equitable for all and cut out the tax breaks that give 50% of the population a 0 sum due on federal taxes? Then turn around and have EVERYONE pay, based on Income, a sliding scale of 10 to 15% of their income to the federal government with No tax deductions? You would go a long way to balancing the budget. That is if you could keep the drunken administration from continuing their irresponsible spending spree. Otherwise, we will leave it up to the gang that can’t shoot straight in Washington DC to figure out how they are going to screww each and everyone one of us who earn a paycheck.
Sargent Major – Major Thumbs UP!
Semper Fi
I think imposing a tax on those who do not have insurance is a great idea!
What good is it to tax people on having health insurance when people can’t afford to have any insurance. how much insurance would they be able to. And then what would the Gov’t do to make the insurance company to for the services the people recieved.Many times insurance companies find ways of not to pay a claim what then is the Gov’t going to pay if the insurance company doesn’t.after all it was the Gov’t that forced people to get insurance what then.A debate on whos responsible the insurance company or the Gov’t.To me thats more Gov’t waste of tax payers money.
Well if you were looking for some bookends we now have them, this is the matching case of the “Dred Scott case” now we have a pair.
Roberts was the weak link all along, so I’m sure he was internally targeted. Generally our government is truly unworthy of any respect, fear it, but you can’t respect it.
Yes, this the ruling on the PPACA is just like racism, isn’t it?
Republicans need to talk about the Heritage Foundation plan which links the individual mandate with individual Consumer-Driven health Plans, and does away with Employer-sponsored health plans. In doing so, it will also greatly affect the need for ERISA, COBRA, HIPAA and all the bureaucracies which are tied to them. Because consumers will be driving the medical decisions, managed care entities would be less necessary. Your employer would no longer be involved in your healthcare decisions in as much as they are the choosers of the coverage – in fact the whole brouhaha about Sandra Fluke and the Catholic Church would’ve been moot because Fluke would have to buy her own contraceptives because the church would not be involved or be even aware of the extent of her promiscuity – they wouldn’t be involved in the transaction. Captain Chaos would like to list all the ways the government is interefering in our lives as if it’s some sort of privilege granted, instead of freedoms restricted. The real contrast should be that CDHPs stand on their own – ObamaCare has so many moving parts that deprive you of choices and steer you to government traps labeled “Exchanges” which are nothing more than the entry point to a singlepayer government health plan from which there will be no escape. Finally, since this is an insurance publication and the majority of us are insurance agents, let’s ask Captain Chaos and his friends who favor the bureaucracy why insurance agents are not part of the distribution equation for the Exchanges? Who better to market the plan – a governmental bloated TGIF-wage-earning, union-protected TSA worker, or an entrepreneurial professional insurance agent?
But, instead Republicans are talking about just because the Supreme Court says the law is Constitutional doesn’t actually make it Constitutional. Or, they are dodging Chris Wallace’s question on a Sunday morning news show. Or, they are making t-shirts with Judge Robert’s likeness and the word “coward” beneath it. Or, they are trying to pretend this wasn’t their idea in the first place and as soon as a Democrat initiates it, it’s the most evil plan ever and is a government take-over of all things holy.
MarketMaker, “singlepayer” – now you’re talking! I see Vermont is trying to take a step in that direction. If it weren’t for all of their snow, I would have consider moving the family up there. Hopefully, they become the role model. It’s time we get private sector bureaucrats and stock holders out of my healthcare decisions. The PPACA at least does some of that with eliminating pre-existing conditions and lifetime limits. I still don’t think there should be a profit motive with one’s well-being.
Planet, please don’t stop in Vermont. Keep on going until you get to Canada. They have what you want. God forbid if you need an operation up there. You may die before you get it unless you come back to the US and find a doctor willing to operate with your Canadian Health Card. Cash may work if he won’t accept it.
No, I’m a patient guy. I will wait. It will be here sooner than later.
The only thing that will be here sooner is November and the people have spoken. At that point, you definitely should consider Canada as a new home if they are taking immigrants from the US.
Well, I’m going to enjoy the hot summer for the time being. But, I am also looking forward to November. This is going to prove to be an interesting one. I think both sides are fired up.
Vermont – once a bastion of Yankee individualism, has been steadily taken over by hippies and socialists from Massachusetts (Known as “Mass-Holes” by the natives.) They went to college and stayed there. Now it’s among the poorest as well as the most socialistic states in the union. Maybe you ought to move there, Captain? We do business in VT. Even the self-employed have to supplement their incomes with yard sales, basket-weaving and the like because of the low income possibilities – or you can grow pot. Pot is probably it’s biggest cash crop and export, but of course, that is part of the underground economy and won’t be taxed, and is the reason so many qualify for Medicaid, Food Stamps and other public assistance. They have to sets of books.
Market, I liked your characterization of the people from Massachusetts who have invaded Vermont. I think they have strayed a long way from the Pilgrims who landed on Plymouth Rock and established freedom from tyranny in the colonies.