It is sad about Mr. Fisher’s loss. That being said he should be held accountable for his mis-information and harm that he has done to Progressive. Free speach is for everyone but when harm is done they must be held accountable.
Don Moe
Well, let’s start with that Progressive hired a lawyer to defend her killer. No, the other driver’s insurer hired the lawyer to defend that driver. Progressive hired a lawyer to represent me and Progressive’s other policyholders against a claim that was disputed. That’s their job. An insurer has a duty to its insureds, but also a duty to all its other policy holders to not pay claims that ought not be paid. The evidence appeared to indicate the sister ran the light and caused the accident. A jury of peers tried and true found to the contrary, but Progressive had a duty to all its other policyholders to have a jury make that finding.
Reputation is both perception and reality like it or not. It takes a long time to build a good reputation and a short time to loose it. Building it back is a very uphill slope and what good things have been done in the past are always lost in the process. Best to from the company’s point of view to let sleeping issues die as the publics memory is very short. This will possibly be proven on a national scale in November
They expect independent agents to sell their products and they make fun of agents in their commercials. My guess is that agents played a role in this decline as well as their dumb decision to get out of paying a $100k Underinsured Motorists claim by siding with the other party in a claim against their own insured.
I represent them but don’t care much for them. They will take on things the others don’t for a price so they are a necessary evil to us. It is also very hard to make contingency with them with their funny rules on PIF. Another possible reason why they are not showing well is that more people have found out the Soros owns them and their CEO is an Obama supporter and bundler. That is enough to turn ones stomach on its own.
I’m sorry, but it appears your major problem with them is that you don’t have an easy time making your contingency commission with Progressive. Perhaps you should explain to others what that means…that you have a hard time making extra income off your agency’s customers that are placed with Progressive, the contingency commission that you want to earn in addition to the commission you earn by placing the business for your customers with Progressive. You wouldn’t be placing your interestes for contingency ahead of your customers’ needs for insurance, would you?
Tim, They actually do some things pretty well such as boats and motorcycles which turn out being the best place for the customer. I am upset that we have a volume of over $500,000 between Personal and Commercial and that would earn us contingency with every other carrier we represent, but not the Progressive boys.
Wow, couldn’t you have just placed that $500k with your other carriers and earned a much larger contingency with those carriers?
September 4, 2012 at 8:51 am
Captain Planet says:
Like or Dislike:
0
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Seriously, you’re going to inject a Jewish banker and The President into this? You have to be kidding, Agent. Only you, I guess. Just wait for the next political article to hit IJ.
I’m an insurance claims guy and a Progressive policyholder. I continue to be amazed that one guy with very inaccurate information can write what he did and so inflame a market. Plaintiff lawyers and consumer advocates complain when insurance companies don’t follow the law. Progressive did and was tied to the pillory. As a policyholder, I’m glad they contested this claim. The evidence was contradictory, and as a claims person, I suspect jury sympathy probably had more to do with the verdict than a true and reasonable evaluation of the evidence. I’m sure the brother’s comedic career got a nice boost from his misplaced and erroneous internet wailings. Once again, don’t believe what you see on the internet.
Great reply Foster. We get bombarded every day with contradictory info on the internet. It is outrageous on the political scene and if you are a true believer on either side, you tend to believe something that fits your philosophy.
I believe the lesson here is how powerful and destructive the social media can be. And I suspect that Progressive could or would not use the same methods to engage in any type of defense. Every company has had a claim that has gotten out of control and this one is probably no different. I am sure other companies are watching this closely and wondering when they’re next. The young man that started this may feel good about the attention he has received but there are no winners here.
The major problem with the “Buzz” scores and the perception of the general public is that the general public does not understand insurance at its core and has been spoon fed from the media that insurance companies are inherently bad and shady and the public has swallowed it whole. Insurance is a priviledge, not a birth right. When one needs insurance it means that they have assets to protect which should be positive, but the perception is so twisted. Of course an insurance company should do what is in its best interest within the scope of the contract they have with the insured. However, anytime an insurance company tries to protect its best interest, they get a bad rap. The general public just wants their claim paid, no matter what, no matter the liability, no matter the fault, etc., and when that does not happen, look out because the press will eat that up. Perception is reality and I wish insurance companies would be more bold in their approach to marketing with telling the truth and educating the public instead of pandering to them with lizards and the like.
Good comment David. They say Insurance Agents are only a step above a Used Car Dealer and people perceive that Insurance Companies are just out to rip them off. However, when a claim occurs, they are sure glad they have the protection. Agents have a difficult time because they represent the company and the insured so we are between a rock and a hard place. The customer is not always right, but they are always the customer and we won’t have a business without them. We search for ways to find coverage that will be right for the customer, but in reality, not every exposure can be covered.
It is my understanding that the other parties insurance offered and paid the limit of their policy before it even got to trial (I may have been reading something inaccurate, but that is what I remember). If this is the case why did Progressive have to take it to trial to fight paying the UM/UIM claim. That is what I do not understand. In any case. They are not my favorite company, but I do write business with them.
The messiest claims I have ever had with clients are with Uninsured/Underinsured Motorists claims. A recent one is a good example. The wonderful “Good Neighbors” company wrote a $25,000 PD limit on thier insured and they hit our insured driving a loaded GMS Acadia SUV worth almost $45,000 and totalled it. State Farm totalled it but said all they could pay was policy limits so we turned it in to our carrier under Underinsured Motorists. It has been comical to see how this claim was handled by the adjustors on both sides. Finally, our carrier paid the entire claim and got re-imbursed by State Farm for their limit and set it up for subrogation for the additional amount against the at fault driver, but he may not have anything so our policy will be stuck for the $20,000.
Progressive didn’t have to try the case – they tried it because they thought they would win. There only had to be a finding that their driver was negligent to win the case. If they had won you would have heard nothing about this case, of course. Given the bad PR I am sure they wished they would have settled. That said, this case won’t really hurt them.
I would assume they paid because, with a $25k BI limit, the quick and painless thing to do is offer policy limits and get a waiver of liability signed on behalf of their insured. It’s a simple business decision to get their customer released from further liability. Basically paying the $25k limit was cheaper than going to court and fighting out who was really at-fault for the accident and potentially exposing their customer to a significant judgement against them.
With a $100k limit Progressive decided to see who was really at-fault.
In this case, there is disputed liability, and the one person who has no reason to be biased (their insured’s passenger) says their insured ran the red light. Progressive owes its policy holders due dilligence in the matter. Every Progressive customer in the same territory will have their rates impacted by this $100,000 decision. I wouldn’t want my coverage with a carrier that throws around that much money without first determining whether it was owed.
I know the state only requires agents to write minimum limits, but shame on agents who do(write the minimum limits). In oregeon they raised the property damage limit from $15,000 to $25,000, but that is because people care more about fixing someones car than being responsible for their medical bills. I know there are people that don’t have much but that does not mean they should not be responsible and purchase higher limits. What is reasonable. I don’t have that answer $100,000 or $500,000 or $1,000,000. I don’t know. But I can do my part and not participate in the minimum limits. Our agency standard is 100/300/100 and we always recommend higher limits.
I think an agent is asking for big trouble writing minimum limits in any state. You can wear out your welcome in a hurry with your E&O carrier. We don’t do it and would rather send the business down the street than write it. The biggest offenders in our area for minimum limits seem to be the captives, Farmers, Allstate & State Farm. Most Independents do a better job and write decent limits and offer better advice.
Ok so I read all the comments and find some of it baseless, ignorant or just plain bias. This is coming from a former Progressive Sr. Claims adjuster of several years. I learned a lot from them as they have very knowledgeable trainers and support for their adjusters but… it ends there. Over the years I learned a lot about the company and its practices. While I do not believe in disparaging or belittling the company, I will say that the company’s conduct was less than desirable when it came time to deal with its insured’s and or claimants. After several years of dealing with the negativity, I left the company and all the benefits including a great retirement plan. I moved on to become an independent adjuster and hired my services out to many other companies like GMAC, Esurance, Allstate, Unitrin and etc. I presently sale insurance for a captive company – Farmer insurance and only wished I had done so many years ago. Although it is every companies objective to make a profit – DUH, this company has given me the autonomy to deal with my clients individually and provide them with a great claims experience. Ask my clients, they will tell you how great this company really is. Ask the victims of the Joplin or Branson Tornado disasters who were insured with us how quickly we responded and how fast we made resolution of their claims of any company out there! They will tell you. Now, I cannot speak for every Farmers Agent out there, but I can speak of the company in general because of the day to day dealings. I plan on retiring with a company that I can feel proud of and I sleep well at night unlike years prior with the other companies I worked for as independent or as an adjuster. This is my story.
All insurance should be sold based on value which includes many factors. I am am not surprised by your first commnts and do see one part of value you experience with your present arraingement. I have never thought of using the comment section of this forum as an advertising opportunity. You are truly a great marketer.
It is sad about Mr. Fisher’s loss. That being said he should be held accountable for his mis-information and harm that he has done to Progressive. Free speach is for everyone but when harm is done they must be held accountable.
Don Moe
And what misinformation would that be?
In my limited knowledge of it, the insurer dared to investigate the claim details when their insured died!
Well, let’s start with that Progressive hired a lawyer to defend her killer. No, the other driver’s insurer hired the lawyer to defend that driver. Progressive hired a lawyer to represent me and Progressive’s other policyholders against a claim that was disputed. That’s their job. An insurer has a duty to its insureds, but also a duty to all its other policy holders to not pay claims that ought not be paid. The evidence appeared to indicate the sister ran the light and caused the accident. A jury of peers tried and true found to the contrary, but Progressive had a duty to all its other policyholders to have a jury make that finding.
Reputation is both perception and reality like it or not. It takes a long time to build a good reputation and a short time to loose it. Building it back is a very uphill slope and what good things have been done in the past are always lost in the process. Best to from the company’s point of view to let sleeping issues die as the publics memory is very short. This will possibly be proven on a national scale in November
They expect independent agents to sell their products and they make fun of agents in their commercials. My guess is that agents played a role in this decline as well as their dumb decision to get out of paying a $100k Underinsured Motorists claim by siding with the other party in a claim against their own insured.
I represent them but don’t care much for them. They will take on things the others don’t for a price so they are a necessary evil to us. It is also very hard to make contingency with them with their funny rules on PIF. Another possible reason why they are not showing well is that more people have found out the Soros owns them and their CEO is an Obama supporter and bundler. That is enough to turn ones stomach on its own.
I’m sorry, but it appears your major problem with them is that you don’t have an easy time making your contingency commission with Progressive. Perhaps you should explain to others what that means…that you have a hard time making extra income off your agency’s customers that are placed with Progressive, the contingency commission that you want to earn in addition to the commission you earn by placing the business for your customers with Progressive. You wouldn’t be placing your interestes for contingency ahead of your customers’ needs for insurance, would you?
Tim, They actually do some things pretty well such as boats and motorcycles which turn out being the best place for the customer. I am upset that we have a volume of over $500,000 between Personal and Commercial and that would earn us contingency with every other carrier we represent, but not the Progressive boys.
Wow, couldn’t you have just placed that $500k with your other carriers and earned a much larger contingency with those carriers?
Seriously, you’re going to inject a Jewish banker and The President into this? You have to be kidding, Agent. Only you, I guess. Just wait for the next political article to hit IJ.
As an IA I don’t like Progressive but love Allied/Nationwide.
There CEO and his support of socialist causes are enough of a reason not to buy their products.
They don’t call them “Progressive” for nothing.
But I bet you have countless items made from China in your house. Give me a break!
I’m an insurance claims guy and a Progressive policyholder. I continue to be amazed that one guy with very inaccurate information can write what he did and so inflame a market. Plaintiff lawyers and consumer advocates complain when insurance companies don’t follow the law. Progressive did and was tied to the pillory. As a policyholder, I’m glad they contested this claim. The evidence was contradictory, and as a claims person, I suspect jury sympathy probably had more to do with the verdict than a true and reasonable evaluation of the evidence. I’m sure the brother’s comedic career got a nice boost from his misplaced and erroneous internet wailings. Once again, don’t believe what you see on the internet.
Your reply is on the internet.
Great reply Foster. We get bombarded every day with contradictory info on the internet. It is outrageous on the political scene and if you are a true believer on either side, you tend to believe something that fits your philosophy.
I believe the lesson here is how powerful and destructive the social media can be. And I suspect that Progressive could or would not use the same methods to engage in any type of defense. Every company has had a claim that has gotten out of control and this one is probably no different. I am sure other companies are watching this closely and wondering when they’re next. The young man that started this may feel good about the attention he has received but there are no winners here.
The major problem with the “Buzz” scores and the perception of the general public is that the general public does not understand insurance at its core and has been spoon fed from the media that insurance companies are inherently bad and shady and the public has swallowed it whole. Insurance is a priviledge, not a birth right. When one needs insurance it means that they have assets to protect which should be positive, but the perception is so twisted. Of course an insurance company should do what is in its best interest within the scope of the contract they have with the insured. However, anytime an insurance company tries to protect its best interest, they get a bad rap. The general public just wants their claim paid, no matter what, no matter the liability, no matter the fault, etc., and when that does not happen, look out because the press will eat that up. Perception is reality and I wish insurance companies would be more bold in their approach to marketing with telling the truth and educating the public instead of pandering to them with lizards and the like.
Good comment David. They say Insurance Agents are only a step above a Used Car Dealer and people perceive that Insurance Companies are just out to rip them off. However, when a claim occurs, they are sure glad they have the protection. Agents have a difficult time because they represent the company and the insured so we are between a rock and a hard place. The customer is not always right, but they are always the customer and we won’t have a business without them. We search for ways to find coverage that will be right for the customer, but in reality, not every exposure can be covered.
well said
It is my understanding that the other parties insurance offered and paid the limit of their policy before it even got to trial (I may have been reading something inaccurate, but that is what I remember). If this is the case why did Progressive have to take it to trial to fight paying the UM/UIM claim. That is what I do not understand. In any case. They are not my favorite company, but I do write business with them.
The messiest claims I have ever had with clients are with Uninsured/Underinsured Motorists claims. A recent one is a good example. The wonderful “Good Neighbors” company wrote a $25,000 PD limit on thier insured and they hit our insured driving a loaded GMS Acadia SUV worth almost $45,000 and totalled it. State Farm totalled it but said all they could pay was policy limits so we turned it in to our carrier under Underinsured Motorists. It has been comical to see how this claim was handled by the adjustors on both sides. Finally, our carrier paid the entire claim and got re-imbursed by State Farm for their limit and set it up for subrogation for the additional amount against the at fault driver, but he may not have anything so our policy will be stuck for the $20,000.
Progressive didn’t have to try the case – they tried it because they thought they would win. There only had to be a finding that their driver was negligent to win the case. If they had won you would have heard nothing about this case, of course. Given the bad PR I am sure they wished they would have settled. That said, this case won’t really hurt them.
I would assume they paid because, with a $25k BI limit, the quick and painless thing to do is offer policy limits and get a waiver of liability signed on behalf of their insured. It’s a simple business decision to get their customer released from further liability. Basically paying the $25k limit was cheaper than going to court and fighting out who was really at-fault for the accident and potentially exposing their customer to a significant judgement against them.
With a $100k limit Progressive decided to see who was really at-fault.
In this case, there is disputed liability, and the one person who has no reason to be biased (their insured’s passenger) says their insured ran the red light. Progressive owes its policy holders due dilligence in the matter. Every Progressive customer in the same territory will have their rates impacted by this $100,000 decision. I wouldn’t want my coverage with a carrier that throws around that much money without first determining whether it was owed.
I know the state only requires agents to write minimum limits, but shame on agents who do(write the minimum limits). In oregeon they raised the property damage limit from $15,000 to $25,000, but that is because people care more about fixing someones car than being responsible for their medical bills. I know there are people that don’t have much but that does not mean they should not be responsible and purchase higher limits. What is reasonable. I don’t have that answer $100,000 or $500,000 or $1,000,000. I don’t know. But I can do my part and not participate in the minimum limits. Our agency standard is 100/300/100 and we always recommend higher limits.
I think an agent is asking for big trouble writing minimum limits in any state. You can wear out your welcome in a hurry with your E&O carrier. We don’t do it and would rather send the business down the street than write it. The biggest offenders in our area for minimum limits seem to be the captives, Farmers, Allstate & State Farm. Most Independents do a better job and write decent limits and offer better advice.
Ok so I read all the comments and find some of it baseless, ignorant or just plain bias. This is coming from a former Progressive Sr. Claims adjuster of several years. I learned a lot from them as they have very knowledgeable trainers and support for their adjusters but… it ends there. Over the years I learned a lot about the company and its practices. While I do not believe in disparaging or belittling the company, I will say that the company’s conduct was less than desirable when it came time to deal with its insured’s and or claimants. After several years of dealing with the negativity, I left the company and all the benefits including a great retirement plan. I moved on to become an independent adjuster and hired my services out to many other companies like GMAC, Esurance, Allstate, Unitrin and etc. I presently sale insurance for a captive company – Farmer insurance and only wished I had done so many years ago. Although it is every companies objective to make a profit – DUH, this company has given me the autonomy to deal with my clients individually and provide them with a great claims experience. Ask my clients, they will tell you how great this company really is. Ask the victims of the Joplin or Branson Tornado disasters who were insured with us how quickly we responded and how fast we made resolution of their claims of any company out there! They will tell you. Now, I cannot speak for every Farmers Agent out there, but I can speak of the company in general because of the day to day dealings. I plan on retiring with a company that I can feel proud of and I sleep well at night unlike years prior with the other companies I worked for as independent or as an adjuster. This is my story.
All insurance should be sold based on value which includes many factors. I am am not surprised by your first commnts and do see one part of value you experience with your present arraingement. I have never thought of using the comment section of this forum as an advertising opportunity. You are truly a great marketer.