OMG, the IRS incharge of collecting, these asses can not stop fraud with in the the country. Ask this fool Steven Miller how much his IRS has sent out in fraud tax returns. Jackoff
Anyone believing this nonsense from IRS should be sold some swamp land in Kansas. This was ruled a “tax” by the Supreme Court and the IRS is in charge of tax paying. The Obama Administration running the IRS through a tax cheater has a new motto. Lean Forward – we aren’t through yet.
“Republicans questioned Miller about how many new agents would be needed to apply the law, and whether the agency would be able to keep up its core mission of tax collection.” I seem to remember that the IRS hired 14,000 new employess to monitor us, the tax payers. Weren’t we told that this was once a FEE? We were also told “If you like the plan you have now you can keep it.” We’ll be seeing if that happens too if Obama is re-elected. God I hope not.
These are some of the headlines I saw while researching this topic:
IRS Hiring Thousands of Armed Tax Agents to Enforce Obamacare …
IRS seeks 4,000 agents, $303 million for Obamacare …
IRS hiring 6,500 new enforcers to collect Obamacare tax – …
IRS now hiring 1,054 agents to enforce ObamaCare. This is just …
16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare …
I tend to believe a head of the IRS reporting to a senate subcommittee more than these headlines or the bloggers on this site.
(And to be a smart ass, even IF it were true that the IRS was hiring 15,000 new agents (which it is NOT) shouldn’t we be happy that 15,000 new jobs with federal employee benefits are being created?)
No. But there are more of us out there than are reflected on this blog. There seem to be alot of Chicken Littles posting on here. The sky is not falling and there will not be armed IRS agents knocking on your door for heath insurance taxes. 1984 has come and gone…
The year 1984 may have come and gone Libby, but not Big Brother. The current government has signed onto and will be putting more drones up over America to monitor American citizens. Everything they have done is to exert more control over our lives from Healthcare to over regulation to trying to control the internet. They already have most of the media except for a few outlets. Our society is much less free than it was 10 years ago. We are moving toward a Chavez style banana Republic if this isn’t turned around soon.
September 14, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Libby says:
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They will also be used by Homeland Security to ensure our safety and U.S. Immigration to patrol the borders. 2 things the Republicans have been rabid about. If the government wants to put you under surveillance, they can already do that. What makes you think they would be interested in what a couple of old insurance agents are doing? Because of the Patriot Act, they can just but our phone and read our email to find out!
September 14, 2012 at 1:26 pm
FFA says:
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Not these jiobs. After the work through all the OBama Care stuff, they will find something (Someone) else to pick on.
The beauty of it is, we can all believe what we want to today. If BO is reelected you can expect that to change. Two terms of BO will forever smell much worse than any of us are prepared to handle. Just some, too many, are still blaming Bush.
You are exactly correct, PM…Bush is still being blamed. I wonder who Abraham Lincoln blamed it on when he first got into office?!! Look at the mess HE stepped into!!!
September 14, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Libby says:
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Wasn’t it Bush that instituted the “Patriot Act” that allows the government to listen to your phone coversations and read your eamils??? Since when is Obama stripping you of your rights to privacy?
September 14, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Ralph Kramden says:
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Oh…that’s right, Libby..you also lean forward. Mea culpa.
September 14, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Libby says:
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If you mean forward for change. Otherwise, I’d have to think what you said was being sexist. Oh! That’s right. You’re Ralph Kramden. I guess I should just sit down, shut up, and cook something.
September 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Libby says:
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“The beauty of it is, we can all believe what we want to today” That’s all I meant by my post. Don’t understand the thumbs down. But then again, I am down-thumbed every time I post. Even if it’s just about the weather!
Thanks because even your take of the weather leans left.
September 14, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Libby says:
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I’m not all left. But I don’t take it personally. At least people are reading!
September 14, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Agent says:
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Hey Ralph, didn’t you threaten to send Alice to the moon when she disagreed with you? I think those days are long gone. I have to hand it to Libby. She does stick up for what she believes no matter how misguided it is.
September 14, 2012 at 1:33 pm
FFA says:
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That could be because your in a forum with a whole bunch of people who had their income and potential for more income hurt by Obama Care. I know I lost a decent amount and have scrapped selling Group Health all togeather as there is no money in it any more. No,Iam not greedy. I do need to pay my bills. I support 7 people. I need to keep what Income I have.
September 14, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Libby says:
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I was hurt most in 2008 when I was laid off. Found a job making 2/3 what I made before and moved cross country in 2010. Finally got work making 1/3 less than before, but only after many years. Don’t think Obamacare had anything to do with it.
September 14, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Bob says:
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“Wasn’t it Bush that instituted the “Patriot Act” that allows the government to listen to your phone coversations and read your eamils??? Since when is Obama stripping you of your rights to privacy?”
Since he resigned it and voted for it twice without revisions before his presidency.
What’s more humerous about my link showing Obama repassed the patriot act:
This is consistent in his methods to take actions for war, while blaming Bush.
The patriot act gets passed. Obama insults Bush, and says Bush used Iraq to get it passed and intrude into American’s lives. When Obama passes it, it’s because of threats like in Libya, and the recent attack.
Gitmo is opened. Waterboarding is done on 3 people in Gitmo. Obama demonstrates his opposition before presidency. After presidency he is oddly silent, and states that he is not going to go after Bush for war crimes. He then keeps the place open. 3 years later, one of the three people who were tortured turns out to have given us information before Obama’s presidency which eventually leads to the death of Osama Bin Laden. Now we praise Obama’s great leadership, for Bush’s policies, which lead to the death of Osama Bin Laden. Say what?
And in your case, you actually even not only give him credit, you also state that Bush’s motivations for taking the same actions place him in bed with Saudis. Say what? If another president takes the same actions, he either shares the same motivations (in bed with Saudis) or agrees that taking out Osama with the patriot act and keeping Gitmo open were the right things to do. Considering Obama kept Gitmo open, and resigned the patriot act, I think we can agree that Obama knew Bush was right and exteneded his policies, while using it to get into office, and taking credit for it. I called this before the presidency I might add.
Bottom line: Obama is an extension of Bush. He has invaded your privacies the same exact way as Bush. And if you’re about “going forward” you’re going to have to show me how you are about “going forward”. Because all I see is more of the same, as well as going backwards.
Really, Bob. Obama only resigned three provisions of the Patriot Act. Which means he only agreed with the narrow scope of monitoring suspected terrorists and not American citizens. I’m disappointed in you.
September 14, 2012 at 1:39 pm
FFA says:
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In my opinion, Bush had to go into Iraq & Afganistan the same way it is shaking out that OBama has to now go into Libya. Or we culd just cut off foreign aid to these countries that hate us.
September 14, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Bob says:
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Considering the following link from Huffington post makes no mention of what you just mentioned, and they are the type of liberal site that would point out such revisions, do you have any evidence that the plan is more narrow?
Paul Rand attempted to make two revisions. They were both shot down by Harry Reid and his crew.
I’m sorry, you’re going to have to point out how it was more narrow. I’m disappointed in you. That was a poor attempt at a back petal. If you’re going to try and back petal and state it is more narrow you better be able to back it up. This is a liberal site, intentional to keep you from back petaling further or decrying Faux news fowl.
The measure would add four years to the legal life of roving wiretaps — those authorized for a person rather than a communications line or device — of court-ordered searches of business records and of surveillance of non-American “lone wolf” suspects without confirmed ties to terrorist groups.
The roving wiretaps and access to business records are small parts of the USA Patriot Act enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But unlike most of the act, which is permanent law, those provisions must be renewed periodically because of concerns that they could be used to violate privacy rights. The same applies to the “lone wolf” provision, which was part of a 2004 intelligence law.
It’s all spelled out in the article you reference. The entire Patriot Act was not renewed.
September 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, These wild eyed Muslim zealots will not be appeased. The attacks on our embassies was well coordinated to fall on 9/11. It had nothing to do with a stupid video. Al Quida was just waiting for the date to do something to avenge us for getting Bin Laden. All we have had in recent years was apologies for offending these less than humans. All they understand is force or the threat of force. They let our hostages go from Iran the day Ronny was sworn in because they knew what he would do to them if they didn’t.
September 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm
Libby says:
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“These wild eyed Muslim zealots will not be appeased.” Really, Agent? Can’t you say “These wild eyed Muslim terrorist zealots will not be appeased?” The other makes it sound as if you believe all Muslims are wild eyed zealots, which I don’t think is a fair statement. And is a little bigoted…
September 14, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Bob says:
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Libby: Do you know how the patriot act works? Did you read the link?
It is an indefinite law with the civil liberty risk areas needing to be passed every four years. The act was not modified, the sections being voted on were the broad privacy issues. Only 2 ammendments were voted on, from Paul. There were no other ammendments. Therefore, Obama passed the plan as it was, without revision.
”
“The roving wiretaps and access to business records are small parts of the USA Patriot Act enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But unlike most of the act, which is permanent law, those provisions must be renewed periodically because of concerns that they could be used to violate privacy rights. The same applies to the “lone wolf” provision, which was part of a 2004 intelligence law.”
Not true and I did read the link. See my post above.
September 14, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Agent says:
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Libby, Wild eyed Muslim Zealots are Terrorists which is a term your President cannot even say. Some of these zealots are stirring up trouble in the US now and there have been bomb threats at the University of Texas and more in North Dakota. This problem is spreading all over the world and your Appeaser in Chief is attending fund raisers for his campaign and not even attending National Security Meetings for the past week. He is not taking this as a serious problem and it is going to bite him in the butt.
September 14, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Bob says:
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“not true”
Which section and prove it. The patriot act was passed as a constant law, with certain sections needing to be renewed. Obama has modified no sections of the patriot act. He has passed sections of it that were due to expire. How is that in any way him limiting the scope of the patriot act?
List me 1 link with the part of the patriot act he limited.
September 14, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
Then you would know that he repassed the parts of the patriot law which specifcally have to be repassed because they violate civil liberties. They are not narrow. They allow the wiretapping, business record pulling, etc.
Do you know how to connect the dots? He signed the most controvertial parts of the bill. Not the narrow parts. Read the article. The whole article goes over why those sections must be repassed. They must be repassed because they give the most violation to civil liberties. He did violate privacy.
Didnt mean to bring this into the debate. Was just pointing the irony of it all. OBama supporters bash Bush for going into Iraq and now obama if facing the same reality with Libya. One mans Iraq is another mans Libya.
My wife always says that when you bash someone, it always comes around three fold. The circle of life.
September 14, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
Again, he passed the parts of the act which allow wiretapping and privacy intrusion. The patriot act was never “intended” for American citizens. I seem to see you are trying to emphasize Non-American ties, as if him repassing those acts is ok because it is for “Non-Americans”. Are you fully aware that this is the same argument us conservatives used against you liberals for the patriot act back in 2004 before the election campaign? That the act would not affect anyone but terrorists?
Obam has made no changes to the bill. Look at your own Wiki link, it even states that no changes have been made. It even lists the change attempts from the Republican I mentioned.
Note the provisions and note which each does. He did not pass more narrow sections of the bill. He passed sections of the bill which make the bill more broad and complete, and violate more civil rights.
201 Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to terrorism
202 Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to computer fraud and abuse offenses
203(b) Authority to share electronic, wire and oral interception information
204 Clarification of intelligence exceptions from limitations on interception and disclosure of wire, oral, and electronic communications
206 Roving surveillance authority under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.
207 Duration of FISA surveillance of non-United States persons who are agents of a foreign power
209 Seizure of voice-mail messages pursuant to warrants
212 Emergency disclosure of electronic communications to protect life and limb
214 Pen register and trap and trace authority under FISA
215 Access to records and other items under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
217 Interception of computer trespasser communications
218 Foreign intelligence information
220 Nationwide service of search warrants for electronic evidence
223 Civil liability for certain unauthorized disclosures
225 Immunity for compliance with FISA wiretap
For Pete’s sakes Libby. I want a listing of the areas he modified and I want to see how he made the bill more narrow. Do you think you can do that, based on the provisions of the patriot act listed in your own link? Which title number was revised??
“I tend to believe a head of the IRS reporting to a senate subcommittee more than these headlines or the bloggers on this site.”
The last section of your post is why you get thumbed down on every post. Let the record show I had nothing to do with your rudeness in this post, so don’t pass the buck over to me.
Further: Post the links. I bet I’ll find what makes the posts accurate at the time posted. Key words being: Expects, may, etc. You tend to read opinion or speculative pieces and confuse them with fact pieces, or for metodology when they are in fact concepts or projections. CBO projections are often wrong due to methodology and projected tax revenues especially, they are the most credible source in the country. You seem to try to then discredit every source based on projection and concept errors rather than actual errors of information. You need to learn the difference. Example: MSNBC states that the average effective tax rate for oil companies is between 9-17%. Forbes says it is 40%. MSNBC only counts the U.S. effective rate, Forbes counts the total taxes. Is there one you should not believe? No. They used different methodology to reach their tax rate numbers. Further example: CBO predicted the percentage of taxes paid by the rich would go down following Bush’s tax cuts. It went up, when accounting for their spending and reinvesting habits to above that of what they were paying during Clinton’s presidency. Was CBO wrong? Not exactly. They used the wrong methodology. In this case it could be the headlines you looked at, when analyzed, would show wording stating that people were expecting that number. Expected numbers rarely turn out when you have a law going into place that is complicated, and you should know that.
The people on this blog, (namely Agent FFA, and Sargeant) are all well versed in politics. Insulting their abilities to have facts is condescending and arrogant. Especially considering you couldn’t even correctly state where Osama was killed, and talked about rich paying less taxes event though they have paid more since Bush’s tax cuts, while implying Clinton resulted in them paying more etc etc. Your facts here have been very muddy at best, and the research skills non-existant. Yet, I have looked up some of your comments in the past and seen why you thought what you thought. Heck, you’ve been right a few times. I do not discount you for being “libby”.
I didn’t think that was you since you are more eloquent than that with your posts. In fact, you take eloquence and facts to a new level and the pinhead liberals don’t “get it” most of the time. Planet must be on vacation, but I don’t miss him at all.
Rather than big talk Libby, considering you already once in this blog posting slipped up big time in a statement (regarding privacy not knowing Obama signed the same patriot act into play and twice voted on it with no revisions) show me the links.
The companies were attempting to project how many hirings that may be. They were not “lying” like you think they were. Your opinions on how news companies work are ridiculous. News companies rarely, if ever, lie on facts. They “twist” on truths and use a different methodlogy. Reference my Forbes and MSNBC comment Libby. And could we stop with the whole “I’m outraged by the world” mentality? Thank you!
September 14, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Libby says:
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I did not say media sources were lying. I said there is alot of “the sky is falling” talk out there. I’m not citing statistics, so I don’t have to show you any links. DS has shown you a link above. Why don’t you check that out instead of attacking me?
September 14, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Bob says:
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I am not attacking you. I am disproving your comments. Learn the difference.
When you reference several headlines you are liable for providing those headlines. You stated you tend to believe one over another, and discredited several media headlines as well as individuals with those headlines. I countered. This is my response. Are you aware how to debate?
Now then, unless you want your comments about who to believe to be unfounded comments, provide the evidence please. The link from DS is irrelvant. It only proves what the actual number may be. It does not prove whether or not your sources used incorrect methodology or incorrect projections.
September 14, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Libby says:
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Listen, I am not an economist or professional debater. If you really want the links to those headlines, I’ll provide them for you. I was just pointing out that there has been alot of stuff posted about IRS agents being hired to monitor Obamacare taxes and that I tended to believe an IRA head testifying to congress more than a bunch of conjecture and estimates. End of story. I’m not discrediting anyone. Give it a break Bob. Your personal vedetta against me is getting tiresome. For me and everyone else that reads this blog.
September 14, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
If you cannot see why your original post which I am discrediting was insulting, then you’re the one in error here Libby.
You made a post with a statement which implied you shouldn’t listen to any of these people, news sites or otherwise, due to credibility. You called in question the credibility. All you had to say was well, he said it, must be true. You were intentionally combating the people here. It’s you who has to end the vandetta.
September 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Libby says:
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I didn’t imply anything. I said “I” tend to believe. Not what everyone else should believe. You keep trying to twist the meaning of my words and I will not stand for it. Please Bob, forget my name, phone number, anything. I almost think you are stalking me for Christ’s sake.
September 14, 2012 at 2:10 pm
True American not a lib says:
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…”Your personal vedetta against me is getting tiresome. For me and everyone else that reads this blog.”
It’s not getting tiresome for me, Libby! I have read your posts in this blog and several others and haven’t posted until now…I think it’s fun watching you get ‘told’ and try to defend yourself! And yes–I, too, think you should post the links…how else are you going to get any credibility??
September 14, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Libby says:
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I’m glad you’re enjoying my spanking from Bob. Always willing to provide comedy relief for you smarty pants boys.
Control the emotional side of your debates and you’ll get more progrss. I can see you have not learned much what I’m attempting with you.
Further: Let’s try not to use the lose my number comments. I’m not stalking you. We post on the same site.
Moving forward: I don’t care about additional links. I only cared about the headlines you mentioned. I will review to see what their methodology is.
Further: If you did not mean to make comment about the character/validity of the other parties that you choose not to believe, why would you bring up those parties at all rather than just the ones you wanted to believe?
You brought the others into the conversation. I made darn sure to defend them against your childish bringing them in. I’m not twisting your words. I’m making it clear you don’t even really know how to debate. Your pride seems to be why you mentioned those other people, because they have it wrong and you’ve got it right. There is no other reason to compare their opinions. You made a comparison. Quit back petaling trying to make it seem like I’m the villain for calling you out on it. It was inappropriate. Maybe you should admit it. Just a thought.
September 17, 2012 at 8:42 am
Libby says:
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Bob, I’m only going to respond to you one last time. I post my opinion on this blog, just like everyone else. I don’t need to defend my position or prove anything to anyone, least of all you. I’m not here to debate, but to have an exchange of ideas. Your idea of debate is combat and I’m not interested. I wasn’t on the debate team and don’t intend to start now. So find someone else to argue with.
September 17, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
“And do you really think the IRS ever had an intention of “Hiring Thousands of Armed Tax Agents to Enforce Obamacare …”? ”
You don’t come here to “share ideas”. You come here to make snide comments. Your comments are held to a standard. If you would prefer I not hold you to a standard I can treat you as if you are just an idiot posting on this site.
If you post on a site and expect to be believed and taken seriously, your points must be backed up. The reason your points I mentioned had to be backed up…WAS BECAUSE YOU SPECIFICALLY REFERENCED OTHER PEOPLE IN COMPARISON. This means you were connecting negative attributes to them. No other option. Say you didn’t mean it all you want, you said it. That’s combative.
Now I’m done with my back and forth with you. Grow up.
September 14, 2012 at 1:46 pm
FFA says:
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Cant say I am well versed in politics. I dont believe anything Politicians say any more – especially Illinois Politicians. Even in my Local City Hall I see conflict of interest with our mayor and the way he rubber stamps more and more developments. He was recently appointed at the Ins Agency that writes the Cities Insurance. He works in Building Supply for his full time job.
What I can say is obama Care hurt my ability to feed my family. Now that my Cobra expired, my cost went up over $1300 @ month.
FFA says: “What I can say is obama Care hurt my ability to feed my family. Now that my Cobra expired, my cost went up over $1300 @ month.”
COBRA expiring has nothing to do with the ACA (aka Obamacare for those of you who like to use that term). In fact, COBRA laws were inacted in 1985.
The ACA CURRENTLY has no control over Individual/Family health insurance premiums. BUT come 2014 you may qualify for premium subsidies as a part of ACA, and enjoy limites on the out of pockets maximums that you may have to pay under those plans, so I think Obamacare will actually help you!
Its one of my beefs with Obama Care. Should have let me keep what I had instead of forcing me to go to something else. My Cobra was affordable – the first word in ACA -Affordable Care Act.
Remove the 18 month limitations on the Cobra. If I can afford to pay it, why cant I keep it? Instead we got Cobra Subsidy.
I thank the great state of Cal for the Cal Cobra Provisions. Saved my but for an additional 18 months.
September 14, 2012 at 2:13 pm
True American not a lib says:
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Wow. There really is a sucker born every minute.
September 14, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Libby says:
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Did your company force you into COBRA because of the enactment of Obamacare?
September 14, 2012 at 3:01 pm
FFA says:
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In my head, typos equate to not a paid blogger. Seeing you apploigized, I also appoligize for all my past and every one of my future typos – even the ones in this post.
September 14, 2012 at 3:55 pm
DS says:
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FFA says:
“Its one of my beefs with Obama Care. Should have let me keep what I had instead of forcing me to go to something else. My Cobra was affordable – the first word in ACA -Affordable Care Act.
Remove the 18 month limitations on the Cobra. If I can afford to pay it, why cant I keep it? Instead we got Cobra Subsidy.
I thank the great state of Cal for the Cal Cobra Provisions. Saved my but for an additional 18 months.”
Okay, so now the ACA was not broad enough. You folks can’t make up your minds. It’s too much regulation, it’s not enough regulation…
September 14, 2012 at 5:51 pm
FFA says:
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I’m in the middle class and slowly – soon to be excelorated- being taxed down to Poverty. The only thing I will qualify for is higher taxxes.
My mind was made up when this thing came down with out Tort Reform. Did not address the underlying problem. If your car has a funny squeek, do you squirt some oil on it and hope for the best? Do you have a mechanic figure out what the problem is, fix it and then squirt some oil on it? Nothing you say or do will ever change my mind about this guy. He is from Illinois. Any – every – Illinois Politician can not be trusted. Hows Jesse Jr working out? Looking over his shoulder – seeing the federal prosecutor coming at him? Setting up an insanity defense?
I also know that I will never change your mind on this subject. You will not change anyone elses mind either. We – everyone in this forum – has made their mind up. So, arguing with me or anyone else is just a waste of time.
So, on to something productive – Any unknown gems on your towns Pro Football Team? Got the skinny on this kid in Dallas out of this Forum.
Have a great week end! Off to the Lake! Maybe I should run by club fed – say hi to the grey lord judges. Maybe the Silver Scoop crooks too.
September 14, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Libby says:
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Maybe Obamacare will help you in the long run. Just sayin.
I cant believe anything the govt does will be better then what BCBS can offer. Years and Years of experience doing it day in and day out for ever vs someone (Govt) just jumping in. How much investment income does BCBS put towards the claims & admin side of things that the Govt wont? Was chatting with a friend of mine that is a state senator. He told me that the States College Investment Fund is damn near broke. He had his kids College planned for except the folks at the State blew the money.
Libby, I have just lost my faith in politicians – especially Illinois Politicians – exceot for my pal. I lived through Grey Lord, Sect of State Scandle, countless numbers getting busted for Bribery not to mention Blago and the other Jail Birds. Folks that live around Wis Dells joke that the only reason the Fed Pen in Brooks was built was because so many Il Politicians needed somewhere to go when they leave office.
September 14, 2012 at 2:27 pm
FFA says:
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I was happy with my Cobra – very happy. Good Company, good coverage, affordable. I left captive to be an IA. I was “forced” to get Group inplace and include one employee as my wife has several Pre X that prohibited Individual Coverage. I have a pending surgery – cornea transplant that I will be forced into getting done soon unless Lasik gets to the point I can go that route. It is medical – not vision.
September 14, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Libby says:
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Yeah, I know Illinois has had it’s share of corruption. And I agree about all politicians being liars. I guess I just try to figure out the less of two evils and go that way. Call me Pollyanna, but I would like to think Obama has our best interests at heart.
September 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm
FFA says:
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DS, ACA should not have happened at all until they address the underlying problem. Could have tweaked the COBRA LAW when he tweaked it to be Cobra Subsidy. Ignored the people with the means to pay the full boat and came up with a plan to give it away.
Wondering will you in obamas corner bash on him like you do on Bush when it becomes necessary to send troops into Libya?
And no, I will not like anythng he does because he is an Illinois Poltitican. illinois Politicians can not be trusted. They are liars. They are all for themselves. Thats why they built Club Fed in Brooks Wisconsin – Retirement home for ill Politicians. Over Crowded now. Had to send Blago to Colo & Ryan to Indiana.
September 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Agent says:
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Libby, I got a laugh out of your reply that “Call me Pollyanna but you believed that Obama has our best interests at heart”. Wow, that takes Pollyanna to a new level. This so called Affordable Care Act is anything but affordable and it is slated to put a big dent in every American’s pocketbook with all the new taxes for middle class Americans and we will have more and more regulations and control from bureaucrats. All of this trouble for keeping a young failure to launch person on their parents policy and to cover all preX’s and tax us if we don’t want it. Forgive me, but I don’t think this is in the best interest of the majority of Americans. That is why it will be repealed and replaced. Romney will not overturn the 26 year olds and will keep the PreX’s so you shouldn’t be too worried about it. Maybe it will shrink down to 200 pages and not have mandates and taxes laced in it.
September 17, 2012 at 8:43 am
Libby says:
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Glad I could brighten your day, Agent. :-)
September 12, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Wayne says:
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The SCOTUS has ruled that the ‘fee’ is a tax and the IRS will use all means at its disposal to collect taxes due. For the head of the IRS to say otherwise is a lie.
The more difficult issue at hand is the ‘mandate’ part of the tax. For those not in a ‘cafeteria’ style plan, the cost of health insurance has been an expense that is not tax deductible. Now that the SCOTUS has said the mandate is a tax, the cost must be treated as any other tax paid out of income; costing the US Treasury revenue.
So far, I have not seen any estimate on the lost revenue amount, has anybody else?
The main reason they came up with this law in the first place was to collect more money from the hard working American worker. If you do your taxes, you better believe they will take the dollars they say is owed to them – like it or not – we are no longer “home of the free”
Actually Brokie, your mind is “Brokie”. There are 7 new taxes built into Obamacare that will hit the middle class. It was done by your President, not Romney.
Random says–“Okay, so then who is going to enforce this (if not the IRS)? Secret Service?”
This is like our immigration system. It is on the honor system. Ha Ha. I suppose they are expecting those without insurance to fess up and pay the fine when they file their taxes. Ha Ha. Just like the immigration system for the new dream act. Police officer or border patrol agent—-“You are a US citizen correct?” illegsl alien—- Si senor, no habla english. Border Patrol agent– “well I guess I can’t arrest you and send you back to Mexico, so I will let you go”.
I will say about Libby, every single friend of mine that is a Packer Fan ahs flooded my FB & Email with slogans like “Cutler Sucks”. My only response to them is that we will never know how good or bad Cutler is until we can have him standing up. We just can not say good or bad until he gets protection.
There is no quarterback in the NFL that will be successful if he doesn’t have a line that will give him a decent amount of time to pass. The receivers also have to get open. Also, if you don’t have an offense that can move the ball, eventually the defense will get tired and get scored on. I have seen the same thing with Dallas for years. They can’t run three plays without a false start or holding call and wonder why they can’t score. Romo has gotten killed numerous times on blitzes. The better teams do have good lines and protect the quarterback and have 8 to 10 plays per drive and come away with either a field goal or touchdown. They are the ones in the playoffs.
Actually, his name is Ogletree. He is a decent 3rd receiver who found himself open when the Giants were busy double covering the two main receivers. They were also trying to cover him with a back up since their main defensive back was hurt. It was no contest and Ogletree turned the poor guy around several times. Other teams will not make the same mistake and Ogletree will get more attention. The problem is that you can’t double cover everyone. The way to beat Dallas is to put immediate pressure on Romo and don’t give him the time to find receivers or he will burn you.
Thanks. That means if Austin & Bryant are having a bad day, this kids up for a big one.
September 14, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Agent says:
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Yes, and Ogletree is not a rookie and is a good route runner. Bryant is a bit of a head case that has a penchant for getting into trouble. The team keeps an entourage around him to keep him from clubbing, drinking etc and drives him to and from practice etc. I think he has the mentality of a 10 year old. He is another one that will be broke within 5 years after he retires. He is a great athlete with super hands, but it will be wasted, trust me.
September 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm
t f says:
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A TAX is a TAX. If there is a place for it on the tax form, which there will be, they will COLLECT it and the collection will be ENFORCED. Their assertion that they will not collect or enforce collection is absurd.
I see. You dont like the Packers. You hate Cutler. Never liked the Tebow idiot. Hats off to Elway kicking him to the curb as well as the Coach that Pissed off Jay.
Elway made a huge gamble to sign Manning. He better hope Manning is given protection because he can’t stand a pounding. Most of the plays will be quick, short passes so he doesn’t get hit. They may do allright if Manning stays healthy and they play good defense all year. Tebow is a great athlete and a real bruiser, but he will not play much for NY unless the incumbent Sanchez has trouble or gets hurt.
I like the gamble. Watched that whole game against Pitts. Good game all the way around. Manning on the bench for over an hour at the half. Comes in and 36 seconds later TD, back on the bench. Major upgrade to the QB poistion up there.
Denver too flat. Nothing there but an out door mall. Colorado Springs much nicer town. More to see.
Libby, I am a little confused. Your income is down over the past few years. You had to move to make less money. But yet, you support OBama?
My income is more then it was in 12/08. My expenses have sky rocketed. In particular, my Health Insurance and the rest of my medical expenses. Pretty much coincided with his Cobra Give A Way plan – the spike in health expense. My group reps have told me he forced the carriers to eat $0.75 on the dollar for these folks that took advantage of it. So, I dont “blame” Obama Care for the spike that has happened. I do believe the next round of spikes as well as the inevitible spike in taxxes to support this expense is going to be anything but affordable.
Not trying to pick a Monday mornng fight or anything. I do respect your right to your opinion. I am just trying to understand something that on the surface seems to have hurt you.
I’m going to get alot of flack for this, but I don’t blame Obama for what has happened in my life. He walked into a mess and is doing his best to turn things around, in my opinion. I think overall, Obamacare is a good thing. I looked at the taxes in it and not many of them are going to affect the middle class. In theory, if more people are insured pricing should go down. And if not down, because of the pre-existing etc., then there should not be huge spikes. I feel it is to soon to know the ramifications of Obamacare and it can be revised and refined as needed. But our country needed this. In fact, this may be what you and your family need to be able to purchase affordable coverage that will cover your pre-existing problems. I have my fingers crossed.
I dont have faith in the theory. When IL went to mandatory Auto Insurance, the theory was the same and did not play out. My belief that has been developed over the course of my almost 50 years on this earth – watching Govt Intrusion in Private Business time and time again just to have it bite us all in the a@# over the long haul has givein me this nagging feling in the back of my head that tells me thay are BSing all of us. My faith in IL policitians turns that nagging feeling into a head ach. Throw in his involvement with Rezco (convicted felon) and its just worse. Part of my shaken faith comes from him & Rahm not having to testify in Blagos trial. Cant lose this feeling that he was indeed hiding something. It leads me to this nagging question – Did Blago fall on the sword for him? Could he have proved Blago to be innocent? Is there an innocent man sitting jail? Maybe I’m just fed up. Should sell out and move to my lake. Buy that little camp ground for something to do.
Just dont know if I want to live in no where ville WI. Over half an hour from everywhere.
I’m being told I’ll be taxxed at 30% on the sale price of my agency. Extends my working life so I can get to the point I need to be at until I can buy my time to Social Security i fits even around anymore.
I’m way ready for retirement. This business has been great for me, but I’m tired. Will have to stick it out for a few more years, though. Living in the middle of nowhereville sounds heavenly to me…
I emphathize with you FFA. You are living in the moste corrupt city in the most corrupt state in the Union. Their answer to their financial problems is to raise taxes again on small business. Is it any wonder that businesses are moving out of the state, just like California? Business does not like that kind of environment and are moving to friendlier states mostly in the south.
My state started with chasing doctors out. Moved on to Manufacturing and is now moving on the service industry. I see it in the COmp Rates state to state. ILL is the worst in the three states I do business in. Hopefully, WI business is going to grow to warrent the move out of state. Then, I can buy my little camp ground that has been for sale for years, operate out of there and then sell off the business piece by piece so I have something to do in the lonley, very lonley winters. Get stuck watching Packers every Sunday — UGGH!
September 17, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Agent says:
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You are right to not have faith in the theory FFA. The liberal plan is for the tax payers to subsidize the non taxpayers and provide them with insurance. That is why Obamacare was ruled a “tax” instead of a fine. We are supposed to pay for these people with our taxes. I certainly don’t think that picking up all the PreX’s out there for coverage will reduce rates even with more people insured, do you? Many of these currently uninsured will wait until they need coverage before getting it since they can’t be turned down. By the way, Texas has had mandatory Auto Insurance for several years now, and about half of all claims we see involve Uninsured Motorists. Yes, they have to pay a fine for not carrying it if they are caught, but a lot of them get coverage and let it drop the next month after renewing their license or registering their vehicle. Our problems are magnified by our large Hispanic population, many of whom are illegal. They have no clue that they have to have insurance if they drive on our streets and highways. They tend to have the worst wrecks imaginable. Just last month, we had a case where a dozen were traveling in a mid sized SUV, a tire blew out and 5 were killed when it flipped, mostly children not buckled in. The DPS couldn’t get a statement from the adult driver because of “language” difficulties.
Libby, you have way more faith in the system then I do. Every time through the course of my life – Govt Intrusion in Private Business has always increased cost always increased taxxes. The honest Hard Working Legal Citizens of these Unites States end up flipping the bill every time.
Mortgage Crises – Billy BOy loosens the reins – No Doc Loans – Interest Only Loans and it blew up in everyones faces. The mortgage COmpanies that made these bad loans should have been left to fail -not bail out. They made tha bad loans. Now I pay??? Not to mention , as a result, I am upside down. Thought I could rely on equity on my house to help through retirement. Now that piece of the puzzle is gone. Who is going to subsidize me?
I do have more faith, but I could just as easily be proved wrong. I hope not. I just keep plugging along and putting one foot in front of the other. It’s all I know to do. And it helps keep me sane in an insane world.
September 18, 2012 at 11:52 am
FFA says:
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I have a Amish manufacturing plant insured. 65 Employees. Reject health coverage on religous grounds. They do provide for their own. This dont allow fro Seperation of Church and State. What are they going to do?
Not sure. It does provide for exemption for religious institutions, but not religious manufacturing plants. We may find a new business, helping people get around Obamacare. I bet there are people out there studying it right now so they can do just that.
September 18, 2012 at 11:55 am
Libby says:
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Do they pay state &/or federal taxes??
September 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm
FFA says:
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I am sure they do. They have to show the tax forms on thier audit.
September 18, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Libby says:
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Well, I guess they will be taxed for not providing health care to their employees. Not fair, but life isn’t.
September 18, 2012 at 1:59 pm
FFA says:
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No. Its not fair. They take care of their own. I take care of my own +++.
Through the back door – Seperation of Church and State getting taken away. Another right afforded – good by!
September 18, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Libby says:
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Too soon to tell. There may be a way for them to get out of it. Lots of legislation to go through… As Agent says, it’s a 2700 page monstrosity.
September 18, 2012 at 2:28 pm
FFA says:
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Its a common theme for those opposed – too much too fast. Maybe it will be good. Even a blind squirl finds a nut.
I do know this from my recent review with them, that Amish Community will not be voting for him. The two elders that sat in the review made that pretty clear. Guessing they want to preserve the Seperation of Church & State.
September 18, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Libby says:
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Since they don’t recognize “the English” or our government, I didn’t think they voted. Maybe those in business with the English are a little more interested. I live near Lancaster, which has a very large Amish population. I’ll have to ask around about their voting habits.
September 18, 2012 at 2:39 pm
FFA says:
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Not sure if they actually do vote or not. I know very little about them except for what they told me. They made it clear they do not like this guy.
I can tell you they pay their bills on time every time all the time.
September 18, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Libby says:
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I did some research and the Amish are exempt from paying taxes except for sales tax and property tax. According the article in this link, they will most likely be exempt from the requirements for healthcare, too.
FFA, The Catholic Church found out real quick that Obamacare requires them to provide contraception on their plans and do abortions in their hospitals. Perhaps that is why 22 Catholic orgainizations have sued over these mandates. I would have to assume the government will force the Amish to comply with their wonderful law. This government is out of control and is dictatorial with their boondoggle of a bill.
September 18, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Libby says:
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Not according to the Lonely Conservative, Agent. See the link above.
September 18, 2012 at 3:19 pm
FFA says:
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Boy oh Boy Libby, that just opens up another can of worms. If its good for the Amish, it must be good for Moose Members / Elk Club / Kof C, VFW ect.. too.
Pissing off the Catholics too. You cant actually believe Medical Birth Controll is free. Only free birth controll is for the ladies to keep their legs crossed and the men to keep the mouse in the house.
September 18, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Libby says:
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If they have a religious objection to insurance. According to the article “The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a “religious conscience” exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objections.” This would include the Amish and Mennonites, etc.
The Lonely Conservative then goes on and adds “The report goes on to note that Senator Chuck Schumer said exempting certain religious groups is a “no brainer.” I’m Catholic. Can Senator Schumer guarantee that I will be exempt if abortions are funded? Or are only certain religious groups granted exceptions?”
I think looking at the definition of religious exemption, the answer would be no. Except I think Catholic Church itself is exempt as a religious institution.
September 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Bob says:
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Agent:
I see people missing a point with Obamacare. Obamacare is for the already insured, and then forces everyone else to get insurance. It was projected to increase the cost of health insurance, while there was a republican plan which was CBO projected to lower costs by 9%.
So essentially we have a plan which allows people to stay on a plan and covers pre existing conditions as long as you are insured. It is paid for by increasing premiums.
I don’t see any way of that being considered a good plan. My question of course is: Where is the benefit? None of the new taxes are going to providing insurance for the un-insured, proftis are limited and thus the insurance company cannot create as much capital for claims, insurance costs go up, U.S. debt becomes involved in private insurance thus intermingling the two, etc etc.
Revising insurance in a way which does not involve government debt would have been a better idea. Revising insurance in a way that covered pre-existing conditions without taxes was already part of the republican plan, which as part of their plan would have required insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and young adults to an older age as well. People would have had the choice to get insured, and exchanges would have been set up, the same ones that government officials get to choose from. The cost for the average american would have gone down.
Is there any way anyone can list that this plan does better than the CBO projected plan?
Don’t use the argument that the uninsured would be insured which would lower the cost for all of us. The CBO disagrees. Premiums are not expected to go down in the democrat plan, only the republican which did not include a mandate. So the CBO proves that one wrong.
This democrat plan does nothing that we could not have done by passing the republican plan. If so I challenge someone to list it.
Your right Bob – define Affordable. What is an Ill Politicians idea of Affordable? 10% More? 50% More?
We know he took full advantage of the Property Tax system here in IL. He purchased two pieces of property next door to each other. One vacant one with his house. He paid the home value on the vacant property and the vacanty value of the property with his home on it. He set the market value of him home at the vacant property price done to dodge his fair share of property tax. Becomes part of the problem, not the solution. All done through Rezco – a convicted felon wrapped up with Blago.
At least that is my understanding of what transpired.
After all FFA, this President famously said that after a point, successful people have made enough and anything more than that should be taxed more heavily. Fits right in with his “Spreading the Wealth Around” scheme he told Joe the Plumber. They like to criticize better off Conservatives they need to pay more of their fair share and wealthy Democrats like Lurch Kerry cannot even bring himself to pay his yacht taxes in Massachusetts and moved the yacht to Rhode Island. None of them will directly answer of how much tax the wealthy should pay, but I think it may fall somewhere in the 70-75% range like France is doing with their wealthy. I wonder when their economy will implode like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland already have.
September 17, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, Our exalted leaders who have been in office since 09 did not want to hear any Republican solutions to Healthcare. They had their own vision which was to tax and control the system. Some good ideas were put forth like Tort Reform, selling coverage across state lines etc. Romney said he was amenable to keeping young people on coverage until 26 and to use the exchanges to offer coverage to PreX people. That is pretty much the same thing as Pools that are offered in many states. Instead, we have a one size fits all monolithic monster with a bureaucracy that can’t be believed. We don’t need all this mess that will end up costing $2.6Trillion by most estimates. Liberals cannot believe we are concerned. That shows how ignorant they are about the affordability issue.
Yes, but Bob loves to recite numbers and statistics. So I thought I’d ask him specifically about his comment that the Republican plan would cost less than the Democratic plan considering the CBO numbers don’t include the savings of the plan, only the costs.
September 18, 2012 at 3:07 pm
FFA says:
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I dont even know what CBO stands for. Another worthless layer of Govt?
September 18, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Libby says:
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Don’t let Agent or Bob hear you say that! Blasphemy! It’s the Congressional Budget Office. Official number crunchers.
September 18, 2012 at 3:41 pm
FFA says:
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Number Crunchers. hmmm. So, I was right – another worthless layer of Govt.
I dont need an accountant to tell me what going to happen. History is going to repeat itself. Govt estimates are going to be off. Taxxes are going to go up. I am going to end up being one of them people with my hand out.
Can they tell us when the Cinease are going to forclose on OBamas Loan? What is the Chinease Tax Rate?
Man o man – your blowing my mind right out of my head.
You said it before, I’ll say it again – I am tired. Big Govt stepping on Little ole me.
September 18, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Libby says:
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Don’t want to blow your mind. I’ll stop. But the loan is not Obama’s. It’s all of ours. And with our luck, there won’t be anything left by the time we have our hands out…
September 19, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
I’m not referring to the cost to the government. My entire post was stating the cost to the government shouldn’t even be considered.
What is the benefit outside of the republican plan which would have brought down premiums for everyone insured, would have insured people to 26 on their plan (like Obama’s) and would have covered pre-existing conditions?
The only answer is that it would have covered more people? How would it cover more people? By requiring people to purchase coverage. Is requiring people to buy coverage a benefit? No. Are cost savings a benefit? Yes. Is there a benefit to Obama’s plan not included in the Republican plan, which would not have harmed the deficit as much as Obama’s? The answer is no.
I don’t like the left slant of politifact, but at least it proves a point. CBO said 10 percent, politifact disagrees but they are politifact.
Having people insured is not in itself a benefit if it doesn’t bring down costs. This also suggests that Obama’s part of the plan limiting the amount investments health companies can do per dollar actually harmed the amount of premiums coming down as I stated before.
September 19, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Libby says:
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Not every benefit has to be tied to lowering costs. All Americans having access to quality healthcare is a benefit to society, is it not? I think it is.
Is there a similar article to the one you posted that states definitively that Obamacare will increase premiums? Or is that an assumption?
September 19, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
When everyone who is now forced to pay for that insurance and the insurance cost did not come down 10% I would say that is not a benefit. They didn’t get it for free. Being forced to buy something is not in itself a benefit.
I base it off of many aspects, but you might enjoy the politifact comment here.
Note the left spin, they openly admit it will provide a 10% increse in costs, but that they get better packages of insurance. But when you read the republican plan, they actually offer the exact same coverage in different ways (pre existing conditions, on the policy through 26, etc). The democrat plan would increase 10%, the republican plan would decrease 10%. Also, the republican plan would allow choice to enter into the equation.
There is a 20% difference in premiums between the republican and democrat plan in total. When the politifact site mentions the improved coverage, they are mentioning in comparison to not passing any plan. They are not comparing it to the republican.
Just so some Hunter can get me with a stray bullet during hunting season? People get more then just crazy up there during Packer Season which spans part of hunting season.
Contrary to popular opinion, liberals don’t want to take away hunter’s weapons as long as they aren’t sub-machine guns and semi-automatic weapons. And a little more control on hand guns wouldn’t hurt either.
Contrary to your opinion, the leaders of the current administration do want to take the guns away from everyone. They think every time there is a shooting somewhere, that is evidence they need to take the guns away. It is always some nut that does the deed, but they are quick to try to pin it on the Tea Party and then have to back off when it isn’t. Chicago has very strict gun laws, particularly hand guns and they have more murders than anywhere in the nation. Thugs will always get guns. If guns are confiscated by government, there will be more murders because the thugs have nothing to fear. I like what Alpharetta, Ga did. They require the head of household to have a gun unless they have an impairment. Alpharetta is the safest city in the country for their size population as a result.
September 17, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Libby says:
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I haven’t heard of anyone promoting the confiscation of guns. I have heard of gun control and I am for it. You can buy these weapons at gun shows without hardly any paperwork. England has a ban on guns, even their police do not carry them, and they have a very low murder rate. Sure criminals will get their hands on guns. There should be severe punishment for it. But I don’t see why the average citizen needs a sub-machine gun or a semi-automatic weapon. You don’t hunt deer with them. You hunt people.
September 17, 2012 at 2:27 pm
FFA says:
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They close school for the first week of hunting season.
From what I have seen of the locals up there, you number is probably low. Bow season opened up recently up there too. Both aspect are very well represented.
FFA, CBO stands for the Congressional Budget Office which is charged with analyzing and scoring legislation that Congress passes. They are pretty much worthless just like Congress since everytime they score Obamacare, it doubles in cost. I believe the first scoring was in the neighborhood of $450 billion over 10 years. The latest scoring has it in the $2.6 Trillion over 10 years. We don’t have genius in charge of estimating costs. I believe we have serious inflation here and now the Fed is planning to print billions more which will cause inflation and devaluing the dollar. Have you noticed the gas pump or groceries lately? The cost is not going down. Goodby Middle Class, hello Poverty Class.
Yes I have. In nowhere ville WI last week end $3.88. 171 miles down the interstate, $4.25. Republican state WI – Democrtaic State IL. Makes my business model less profitable.
Dont do the grocery shopping.
I support 7 people full time and one part time. Why? Because my grown children can not find full time work. Neither can the Father of three gr children and the mother of 1. So it falls on my shoulders. Support my daughter, her three kids, my son and his daughter 4 days a week. Meanwhile my daughter supports OBama cause that jack ass makes it too easy for her to sit on her dead ass. My son pickes up odd this and thats to supplement his 15 hr a week job. So he usually finds about 20 hrs on average of that. But my daughter is so used to sticking her hand out – its a way of life for her now. Hope he pays off the loans with that cash he is printing. How about spitting Interest Expense of the Countries expense?
No wonder you’re in WI every weekend! I could never live with my parents. They’d drive me nuts! So is it they can not or do not find full time work? Maybe tough love is in order for them. Give them a deadline and then they’re out. But both you and your wife would have to stick to it.
Yep. Had the crowd last week end +2 up there. Next week end, just the two of us. And if wife dont want to go, just me.
Daughter has given up finding work. The father is also an unemployed dead beat. Why bother when she & he just sticks her hand out. I paid the full boat on school for the two kids. My son does what ever pays him a buck. Currently helping to construct a Haunted House in addition to his part time job. He gave up his car and rides his bike rain or shine. He keeps pluging away. Tough love? Put the grand kids out in the streets??? Wife would never go for that. Meanwhile, when I dont go north, I am working till 06:00 on Saturdays. Not only has my take home plumeted, so has my quality of life. I really wanted to go see the BOSS at Wrigley a few weeks back, but had to cover the load for the kids.
Wonder why I want change at the top? Cuz it sucks at the bottom. I was content being in the middle.
September 17, 2012 at 1:21 pm
FFA says:
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BTW, Sunday in WI Dells as a known Bear fan – brutal. Would not go into a bar where I am known. I love my Bears. I do admire the Packers for the success. But, I luve my Bears.
I’m ok by the lake. I am surrounded by Bear Fans. Even the ones that live there are Bear fans. Soon as I leave my comfort zone, head to the dells otr the little population 300 town around me I cant wear my bears shirts nor my cubs shirts.
BTW, my wife is forcing me into thinks along them lines. “I dont want to be a local up there”. I may be a different story if I was directly on the lake, but cant afford the minn $500K for a small 900 sq ft shack. So, Im in the mobil home park about 1/8th of a mile away and have lake rights through the assn.
Funny, I was looking at the log cabin on the lake. 100 foot beach Nice pier system. Asking over $500K. Last house that sold with original asking price over $500 was much bigger, three car attached garage, came with a 28ft Pontoon Boat, Pier system sold for $375,000 fully furnished. This one is smaller – only three BR & 2 baths. Small built in 2 car garage. Nice deck. I am on the lake the two owners of two different water parks in the dells live on. Oh, so much $$ up there. Surprised that the guy that owns the one dont have a water slide into the Lake. Now, the Kraft house is up for sale for over $1M. NO WAY!
FFA, What is going on with that liberal county judge trying to take down Scott Walker’s victory over the unions? How can one judge who is not even a federal judge overturn the will of the people up there? This judge should be impeached and removed. I wonder how much the unions paid him to make this ruling.
Not familiar with what your taking about. When I am there, we have NO TV, NO INTERNET (unless I knock on the neighbors door and ask her to open the network up) and very poor cell service. Isolation!!! Bright Stars. Alone time with the wife! Maybe its not WI that I love so much as the P&Q.
I am sure Bill (one of my reps) will be in soon and I’ll get the Milwaukee perspective. He was more then happy to keep me informed during the recall. Maybe its because he wants to kick Badger Care (WI version of OBama Care) to the curb.
FFA, the judge was a Dane County Circuit Judge by the name of Juan Colas who made this ruling. He said it violated the State and US Constitution. Looks like Wisconsin has its share of goofy judges to go along with all the other malcontents. Of course there is an appeal going on to keep the law going until it is resolved by a higher court. I don’t know why Wisconsin can’t just settle down and let Walker do his job. He is bringing the state back and creating jobs there.
September 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm
FFA says:
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Best Guess – one of the Grey Lord judges got out of Club Fed and bought his career back????
What County?
I cant imagine what people are bitching about. Their budget is balanced.
Dane County is Madison – right outside the Cap Building. Dont much make for friendly neighbors. One of my lake pals is a Madison Teacher. He was upset about having to kick in $100 @ month on his Health Insurance. He said that to the wrong person after I had a few coctails.Not sure we are pals anymore.
Health Insurance for $100 @ month and he was complaining. Boo fn hoo! I pay more in a month then he pays in a year.
Some people just dont know how good they have it. He owns one of the $500K houses on the lake. Showed up with a brand new 28ft Pontoon this summer Wah Wah Wah – I have to pay $1200 @ year for my health insurance. And now this judge wants to waste more tax payer money & time. I am going to have to talk to my rep.
September 19, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Agent says:
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I’m glad you let this “entitled” teacher have it for his complaint about having to kick in $100 month for his health insurance. Most of us in the private sector have to pay 10 times that much to cover our families. They and the Chicago teachers are an embarassment to the country. They make much more than the typical private sector employee, get three months paid vacation during the summer and then bitch if they have to contribute to their benefit package. Walker did good work getting this rolled back and I hope this sorry judge up there gets reversed on his union favored opinion. He should be impeached.
September 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Well, news just in. Last week two thugs in Detroit try to rob a guy getting gas. They approached him after he paid for his gas and was getting in his car. They grabbed him threw him across the hood of his car. He slid off the front, pulled a Glock 9mm and shot one of the thugs. The other guy hot footed the scene. The first thug, last I knew was in surgery and critical condition. So what is wrong with someone owning a handgun if they can properly train on how to use it, obtain a permit and qualify by practicng at a range? I guess the libs also missed the retired marine in Florida stop an in process robbery with a 38 at a convenience store or they must have missed the robbery at McDonalds, in Fla where the robbers forced the three customers into the bathroom where a retired serviceman pulled a handgun and shot one robber and went after the other?
I have no problem with someone owning “a” handgun with proper training and a permit. And I know some people are gun collectors and like to buy up all kinds of weapons. I don’t see the fascination with it, but that’s OK as long as they are locked and stored securely. For every one of those stories you just cited, I could cite 2 or 3 where some innocent party or child was shot because handguns were being mishandled or not stored properly.
Thirty million registered gun owners with training did not kill anyone last month. How many unregistered thugs in Chicago killed innocent people in the past couple of months? The answer is that more were murdered in Chicago than we lost in Afghanistan. The gangs are rampant there. If you don’t believe me, ask FFA and he will fill you in on the latest since he lives there.
Sounds like your half Democrat and half Republican. Believing in God and Gun controll. Then supporting Obama care.
If not for Obama care, which way would you go?
I would still go Republican myself. I am worse off then I was 4 years ago. Its time for a change in my book.
FFA, This country will not be restored to greatness until we have a regime change. They are trying to overwhelm this country with all the bad stuff they can think of. It is way past time for a change and going in a totally new direction. We aren’t going to get it from the current administration since they are bent on reducing the country to a banana republic.
So Democrats don’t believe in God??? That’s news to me. I was brought up Republican (military) and thought I was until my late 20’s when I realized there is alot of gray area in the world and not everything is black and white. I was registered independent for many years until registering Democrat about 4 years ago. So I have been both, but identify with the ideals presented by the Democrats more. Call me a hybrid.
Read Chicagos daily news. Story about an innocent person being killed in the cross fire every day. Why save the thug anyways? He dont have health insurance. History is bound to repeat itself. I dont have any sympathy for people like the thug.
A Texas State Trooper pulls over an 80 yr old lady and notices a conceal and carry permit. Cops asks “Do you have a Loaded Fire Arm?” She says “Yes, I have a 22 pistol in my purse.” The cop then asks “anything else?” She says “Yes, a 38 in the glove box.” The cop asks again and she says “Yes a 357 under my seat.” The cop then asks “What are you afraid of?” She respons “Nothing.”
FFA, I insure some of these grannies down here in Texas. They will blow a thug away in a heart beat if they feel threatened. There was another story a few years ago about a young teenage girl in Montana who killed one illegal alien and wounded another who were there to try to rape and kill her. Fortunately, her father had trained her well and she got them with a shot gun. Good for her.
Every day, there is an article in the paper about an innocent being shot. Rahm is over his head on that front. No help coming either. No NAtional Guard, no help from the Satte Police Force. None that I saw. When I went to NYC, I watched the Nat Guardsmen walking around the Sub Way. Did not make me feel safe, made me feel threatened.
Schools till out in Chicago. No help from anywhere coming. Going to Court to force an Injunction. No Help.
The guy is over his head.
Some dancing grannies look better than others. I don’t think I would turn Sophia Loren down if she asked nice. She is still dynamite along with Raquel Welch. They both have plenty of money to maintain their looks. Unfortunately, there is not much one could do about Hilary. She is a hag personified. All that money and her hair is stringy and too long for a woman her age. After she leaves office in a few months, she may take an extended vacation and go to Switzerland for a serious make over.
Well agent, If I am going to get myself in trouble with my wife, I’ll stick with the 25 – 30 year olds. HAnging around the Dells on Sunday, pleanty of trouble for me. May have to send my honey off to the Chipendales Review up in Lake Geneva.
Common theme for me – going to WI. They say its Ill largest State Park. Judging by the traffic on the intersste at 06:00pm, may not be too far off the mark.
I understand the “hot flashes” girls really like those Chip N Dale guys and stuff the money down the thongs if they get the chance. I must be really old since I cannot even have a conversation with a 25-30 year old airhead. Give me a good looking mature lady who is well kept any day. I have to laugh at the Cialis commercials that show 30 something guys who need help with their problem. They have some hot women so I don’t know what the problem is.
Damnedest things is my wife struck up the conversation with the young gal. I was just standing there watching the parade and got myself in trouble over it. Maybe it was when the gal bent over to pick up her cute little doggie and I noticed she didnt have a bra on… It was my wife that said “Look at the cute little dog” as she was bending over. So I did and got an eyefull. I could have yelled at my wife too. She saw the same thing I did.
September 18, 2012 at 8:20 am
Libby says:
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You guys are awful! Why don’t we hear anyone talking about what a freak Ryan looks like or Romney is a robot?
I dont notice guys. I have no opinion on the physical attractivness of any guy.
If you as a woman want to voice your opinion, its a free country. When it boils down to it, oink!
Oink is right! You guys are all alike. But viva la difference, I guess! Can’t live with ’em. Can’t shoot ’em…
September 18, 2012 at 10:58 am
FFA says:
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Cant tell me you dont notice “cute” guys too. Seeing something easy on the eyes and admiring the beauty just makes you human.
Me personally, I have never cheated on my wife or any girl friend I have ever had. I may look, but I dont touch. So, I only get one oink!
September 18, 2012 at 11:03 am
Libby says:
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One oink for you, two for Agent! But that’s OK. I’m old enough to know how you boys are and I’ve come to accept it. And yes, I will notice a cute guy. But I will rarely comment on it – I just enjoy it!
September 18, 2012 at 10:56 am
Agent says:
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Ryan looks like a choir boy compared to Hairplug Gaffe a minute Joe. I can’t wait for their debate. They many have to carry Joe out on a stretcher after it. It will be interesting to see how he tries to spin out of the disastrous policies his administration has been doing for 4 years. As far as Romney goes, his personality is Presidential, unlike the radical in chief. We will see who looks more Presidential when the smoke clears.
He may LOOK presidential, but he is not presidential material, sir. He left MA in a mess. And Ryan will not do well in debates using words like “wonky” to describe his budget numbers. When pushed on the numbers, he responded that he hadn’t run all the numbers yet. I heard a comic say that was like saying they wrote a book with no words in it. I thought that was hilarious.
September 18, 2012 at 11:08 am
FFA says:
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He is not from IL. He is from Wi, one of the few states with a balanced budget. The Gov that balanced the budget, they tried a recall but failed. I know he did not have much if anything to do with the state level, but, in my mind, even if he is a Packer Fan, makes him the best man for the job even in front of Romney. He has a solid resource to fall back on for advice in Scott Walker.
September 18, 2012 at 11:20 am
Libby says:
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Well, whereever he’s from, he’s a big, fat hipocrit and liar. Check this out:
And he can’t explain his budget numbers other than to say they’re wonky. And he wants to privatize the same system, social security, that he certainly enjoyed collecting and that sent him through college. He’s certainly not for me! Not to mention his crazy, bug eyes. I can’t look at that for 4 years. No, sir!
September 18, 2012 at 11:37 am
FFA says:
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Libby, he may be, but he is not from IL. No one will ever convince me there is not a better option then an IL Politician. All I know about you is your not a Cutler Fan and from Denver. You are a better option even though we disagree on o Bama Care. At the very least, you anknowledged Tort Reform is needed.
Packers won that night.
September 18, 2012 at 11:38 am
Libby says:
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I know. I’m getting ready for my inaugural address. Don’t worry, I’ll let you have a couple of minutes, too.
September 18, 2012 at 11:56 am
FFA says:
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I’ll just keep my mouth shut.
September 18, 2012 at 11:56 am
Libby says:
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Kudos to your wife. She trained you well!
September 18, 2012 at 11:59 am
FFA says:
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Or maybe I have learned the hard way. Keep my mouth shut and go about my biz.
September 18, 2012 at 11:59 am
Libby says:
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Yes, dear.
September 18, 2012 at 12:21 pm
FFA says:
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Yep! (Oink)
September 18, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Agent says:
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Actually Libby, Duvall Patrick has made a bigger mess in Taxachusetts than Romney ever thought of doing. I don’t know how Romney ever got elected in the state of Kennedy as liberal as they are. He actually rescued the state and balanced the budget and many in that state thanked him for straightening it out and then they went right back to what they were doing and are in the same dire straights. As far as Ryan goes, whatever he has to say will make a lot more sense than Biden who said the Republicans would put blacks back into chains. That is only one of his goofy sayings. There are dozens to choose from. He even asked a paraplegic to stand up and take a bow at one of his stops. The guy was sitting right in front of him. To think this guy is a heartbeat away from the Presidency makes me shudder.
September 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Libby says:
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Now you know how I felt about Sarah Palin…
September 19, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Bob says:
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Libby:
Again with the posting of opinion pieces. Your opinion piece on Paul Ryan, while from Fox News, is definitely not written by a conservative.
Now on to her untrue comments: Paul Ryan’s plan which would have cut medicare costs by a similar amount to Obama’s plan was at no point similar to Obama’s plan. Let us not forget that the morning after Paul Ryan received the nomiation an email went out claiming Paul Ryan was ending medicare. Paul Ryan was merely pointing out that Obama was cutting reimbursement costs, which could lower the quality of care. Which he did. That was by no means strengthening medicare. When Obama cuts payments we all assume that quality will remain the same, when Ryan has a plan that will cut costs and increase care though, you think it will destroy everything right? Paul Ryan defended against an attack.
The credit rating the woman mentioned stated another lie or mistruth, that the credit rating was decreased due to Republicans making it evident the debt limit would not increase. Come now Libby, you honestly believe if you had a credit card, your rating would go down for not agreeing to get more in debt? The reason was revenues are not expected to change, entitlements are expected to grow and there was no solution.
Romney is not increasing taxes on the middle class. He eliminates taxes on the middle class for capital gains taxes to name one tax cut. Usually online when people say he’s raising taxes they are referring to the temporary payroll tax cut, which Obama has every intention of being Temporary himself. Romney removing that is not a middle class tax increase.
Regarding the social security going to private, check out the road map to prosperity. It is very clear that his plan would result in larger economic growth as well as would not give less to people for social security, it would basically just remove it as a deficit. It also has no effect on anyone older than 55.
All and all I would peg the woman you referenced as a far left commentator. She also said that he would “eviscarate” (way too strong a word) entitlements without listing how they would be “eviscarated”. When you make a comment like that it has to be specific. She basically took the approach of listing a few facts, then listing opinions, and expecting you to believe that all the pieces were a fact as a result. Take some courses in media. I have a media specialist as a hire here. I show here these articles all the time, and she breaks down the strategy.
September 20, 2012 at 9:34 am
Libby says:
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1) I did not get that email on Ryan, but every ad I have heard says he plans to get rid of Medicare “as we know it”. That is a true statement.
2) While Obama’s plan cuts reimbursements to providers, Ryan’s plan will shrink the number of providers forcing some seniors to find another doctor. I would question the benefit of that.
4) Most of my retirement is “privatized” and I’ve taken a bath in the last 4 years with no end in sight. Privatizing was feasible when the market was stable and social security had a surplus. Doesn’t look so hot now and even Ryan has backpedaled on it.
5) I don’t want to take a media course.
September 17, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Libby, most all and I mean most all of the accidental shootings in Detroit ar from thugs and drug dealers who leave unregistered weapons laying around the house or a kid gets shot in a drive by shooting. Same in Chicago, Philly, New York etc. It is rare that a citizen with a registered weapon and a conceal carry permit has a gun go off let alone accidentally shooting someone. How about this; Let’s allow all the Democrats surrender their handguns, long rifles, shotguns etc and prohibit them from having a gun of any kind! How many of the Detroit or Chicago shootings will be prevented?
Besides that I find it interesting, almost humorous that this administration wants to get tough on gun control and at the same time this administration sends assault weapons to mexican drug dealers who use them to kill US border patrol agents. Even Eric (I am a dope) Holder don’t have anything to say. How about this, let’s allow all the libs to surrender any weapon they have and prohibit them from owning any going forward? How many of the shootings in Detroit and Chicago will be prevented? My bet none as all the dope dealers and crack heads who live there vote for Obama now.
Again, you miss my point. I didn’t say surrender all handguns, long rifles, or shotguns. I said semi-automatic and sub-machine guns. And I read about some innocent kid getting shot every day and it’s not because his dad is a thug. In IJ just a few weeks ago there was a story about a police officer accidentally shooting a woman in the foot at a party for God’s sake. Accidental shootings happen all the time. But regardless, I am not advocating getting rid of all weapons. Just those I mention above. Tell me, specifically, what is wrong with that?
Libby, Can you guarantee that the thugs and gangs won’t be able to get semi-automatic weapons and sub machine guns? They often out gun the police when there is a battle. We have a government that furnished these kinds of weapons to the drug cartels and then lied about it and are hiding the records at the White House under Executive Privilege. We are much safer when the citizens can protect themselves rather than disarming them.
Similar to Iran/Contra in the 80’s, huh? That kind of stuff has been going on forever. And no, I can’t guarantee the thugs won’t be able to get these weapons. But I don’t think anyone should have them and if they were illegal, they could be confiscated if discovered. I know, I’m Pollyanna… It’s just a pipe dream, but I wish for a day when these weapons were no longer on the street.
With what happened here in Chicago, it seems more and more obvious that our Job is not finished.
Getting too close to home and too close to being successfull.
September 18, 2012 at 10:54 am
Sargent Major says:
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Libby, you missed the point. I don’t know where you are from but around this part of the country accidental shootings are rare. Also, accidental shootings do not necessarily come from a semi auto handgun and never from an “assault rifle”. If there is an accidental shooting around this area it comes from a long rifle during deer season, at a public site by some bozo who has been drinking for three days and sitting in a deer stand shooting at whatever moves. It is not the guns they should outlaw. They should put the thugs in jail and keep them there and qualify someone who wants to buy a gun. What this administration wants to do is to make it very difficlut to own a gun or take the right to own a gun away from everyone.
I don’t disagree with you. The accidental shooting point and semi-automatic weapons point are 2 different issues. I know we can’t take away peoples guns. I just don’t think we should allow those types of weapons that are designed only for killing mass numbers of people on the street. Will it ever happen. No. I’m not stupid, just idealistic.
You will not “get them off the street” as you say because the thugs and people who would like to rob or kill you or store owners have them and will get them one way or the other. What this administration wants to do is to limit or take those weapons away from the responsible people who can own them and maintain them properly. I have no problem with licensing of certain types of weapons and qualifying those who want to own certain types of weapons because we do that now. We just don’t do a great job of administration but hey the feds can’t even run the post office and rob from social security so what would you expect?
Sargent, I insure a number of responsible people that have multiple guns. They are hunters and NRA members. They have gun safes in their homes and keep them there. We have almost 0 accidental shootings in our area. The shootings we do have are by thugs, gang wars between Blacks and Hispanics, drug deals gone bad, armed robberies etc. These are done with unregistered guns, semi-automatic etc. It is well known that the liberal progressives would like to disarm America. That would make their job easier to control the citizens. Everytime I have seen an effort to collect guns from citizens, the street crime escalates. We must never give up the right to bear arms.
Agent – Please! Stop! We do not want to “disarm Americans”. We want gun CONTROL. Not gun bans. There are many shootings that may have been prevented by better controls. We’re not talking about taking all your guns away, so relax. Try looking at the article in the link I posted. Why are conservatives so melodramatic and knee-jerk? Liberals are not foaming at the mouth radicals trying to take away your rights and give them to the government. No-one in their right mind would want that. So try to be a little less dramatic and use the common sense I know you have.
Libby, Apparently you don’t listen to your own leaders. Everytime there is a shooting by some lunatic, they try to blame the Tea Party for it and introduce new legislation to ban guns. It happened with the Giffords shooting and the Colorado shooter. When their theory falls apart, they don’t apologize for their mistake. My confirmation of their agenda was borne out at the DNC with one radical speaker after the other including an illegal alien. The party of Truman & Kennedy no longer exists and they may as well call themselves the Progressive Socialist Party because that is what it has become.
Blame the Tea Party? The same ranting, raving thugs in suits that engaged in spitting on democrat politicians, hurling insults and racial epitaths at democrats, and threatening violence if health care bill is passed? That Tea Party?
September 18, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Libby says:
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OK, Agent. I looked up your claim of almost 0 accidental shootings in your area and found this article written by a Houston gun defense attorney which says accidental shootings are in the top 10 causes of accidental deaths in the U.S. It is a problem that I don’t have a real solution for, but it does exist. You can’t poo-poo it:
Accidental Shootings
Overall, concealed weapons rights are fairly generous in our state. Unfortunately, the statutes themselves are extensive – and would require more room than currently available to explain with any detail. A recent event, though, in which a woman was accidentally shot in the buttocks at a Texas restaurant when a concealed weapon accidentally discharged, has led me to present a cursory discussion on the topic of accidental shootings.
Firearm discharges – or accidental shootings – fall in the top ten reasons for accidental deaths in this country. In fact, accidental firearm discharges more likely result in death than injury. Just as in other cases in which a person claims divine providence or that an event was not deliberate – a person is not excused from the incident by presenting this as an excuse. Perhaps the worst part of an accidental shooting death is not just the devestation for all involved – but the fact that it is usually quite preventable.
The person who causes the death of another through an accidental firearms discharge will most likely still be prosecuted and could also be sued in civil court for wrongful death. All of this because of what is often merely gunplay. Even though the public is not served by putting the person in jail and there is probably no punishment that the state could mete out worse than the anguish of knowing that you’ve accidentally shot someone – the courts regularly see these types of cases.
Once upon a time, a long time back, Walter PAeton accidentally shot a Bus Boy in his restaurant. Walter had an extensive Fire Arm collection. No real point to this other then accidents happen. I over look a major state highway and see accidents out my window more often then I care to. A few years back, I walked out of work to see my brother being carted away in an Ambulance with his car wrecked.
I know they do, but Sarge & Agent seem to think accidental shootings are a rarity and they’re not.
September 18, 2012 at 11:26 am
Libby says:
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This doesn’t sound like limiting or taking guns away from responsible people. It sounds common sense to me:
The Giffords shooting had, seemingly, upped the pressure to implement reforms. Obama himself used the occasion to pen an op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star advocating for stronger state-to-state coordination with respect to gun data, expedited background checks and greater enforcement of the laws already on the books. The Department of Justice meetings commenced not too long later and have continued over the course of several months, according to an administration official. They are now finished.
The end result, one source close to the discussions said, was a package of reforms “not huge in scope.” They are largely expected to mirror the topics covered in the president’s op-ed. Gun control advocates have pushed for more, including legislation that would limit the size of magazines — such as the 32-round magazine that Giffords’ shooter used — or a bill that would force private sellers to conduct background checks at gun shows — which was pushed in the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting.
Well libby you missed a few things. First the Tea Party- You have got to be kidding with your comment “ranting thugs”. I suppose your occupy deadbeats were angels? If I recall no Tea Party participnats have been arrested, forced out of a public park. To my knowledge no was stabbed, no public arrests for indecency or urinating in public like the occupy deadbeats etc. In fact, in this area most of the tea party protesters were eligible for social security or on social security including my neighbors 81 year old mother whose picture made the paper.
Second, The Huffington Post- really? Do you believe anything that comes out of that rag? The article said nothing about what Obama wants to do. It is fact that Obama has always been someone who wants tight gun controls and gun bans. In the state of Illinois a responsible tax paying citizen can’t get a conceal, carry permit. You can’t even travel thru the state with a hangun even if you have a permit from another state. He also appointed Eric Holder another gun ban advocate. But after reading the article I found this most interesting. The article states-
“Administration officials were coy on the specifics, from the reforms the Department of Justice would recommend or when it would actually make those recommendations.” Anytime I hear that I shake my head as this is what the Obama gang has done the entire presidency until they can figure out how to go around the House with executive order.
Sargent, I noticed Libby’s reference to the Huffington Post as well. She likes to use the most left wing sources to try to prove her point. Kind of like Eric Holder’s Justice Dept using Media Matters to get their talking points. Yes, that is also a current story. We have a rogue government in charge right now full of radicals bent on taking this country down. They need to all go in less than 2 months.
I have also referenced links to FoxNews, but never get any response from those postings. Like me, you only respond to the postings or articles that support your position. It’s just human nature…
You referenced a link to Fox News from a non-paid contributor who is not only a democrat, she clearly lied in her post even according to politifact regarding medicare. It’s a famous piece, which everyone is slamming right now.
I don’t need to keep repeating lie of the year 2011 do I? Lie of the year 2011: Republicans are getting rid of medicare. Look it up, even left leaning politifact had to call it a lie. That Fox News piece you referenced had not one accurate comment in it from that particular person regarding Romney’s speech.
There were many things she said that were true and not her opinion. All the things she listed that he didn’t talk about are fact.
What she DID NOT say was Republicans are getting rid of Medicare. You just throw in these unrelated nuggets to distract from the real discussion at hand.
And it was Ryan’s speech, not Romney’s.
September 18, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Also, anytime someone is assaulted or shot such as Gabby Giffords it is horrible and tragic. Those responsible should be dealt with accordingly. But why punish everyone for a few idiots? That assault could have been done just as effective with a sawed off shotgun and a revolver. If it is up to this president the gun controls will have limit creep. Limit creep is a law which, after time, gets more restrictive until it accomplishes what they wanted in the beginning. That is something that has been used in Washington for years. I use medicaid and welfare as examples. What started out as a sort term, stop gap assistance program has flourished into a liberal come one come all program for several generations,illegal aliens etc.
No Thanks
Well, I don’t like guns so you won’t get any argument against gun control from me. Doubt blanket bans will ever happen as it’s unconstitutional. But ban the assault weapons for sure. Sorry, but I AM Libby after all…
And Sarge, if this could just as easily been done with a sawed off shotgun or revolver, why does anyone need an automatic weapon? You just kinda proved my point on that one, old boy.
Agent, You are correct about gun permits and crime. Since the republican governor enacted legislation allowing responsible citizens to obtain a conceal permit, violent crime has gone down every year as permit requests have gone up every year.
From what I understand, most of the violent crime in Chicago & Detroit is gang related. How does a conceal permit for the average Joe help in that situation? Unless you live right in the middle of gang territory and are shooting thugs down in cold blood. Then the violent crime rate would go up. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Both are victims. Gangbangers killing each other and killing innocent bystanders. You just don’t hear as much about the gangbangers killing each other, because they don’t get any sympathy. Besides, my post said gang related. If gangbangers are killing innocent bystanders, that’s still gang related.
Sorry, missed the gang related aspect of your post.
Before they tore down the old stadium, I had a thought – Lock all the gan bangers in there, drop in a bunch of assorted gund, knifes and other weapons and just let them kill each other off. Last man standing get to rule the streets. One one gang banger dont make much for a gang. Hopefully he gets shot “accidentally”.
I just dont buy into gang bangers getting shot are victims. Its what they signed up for.
You know what they call a 30 yr old gang banger? Old.
September 19, 2012 at 10:42 am
Libby says:
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Well, the gangs are a huge problem and it needs to be addressed. There are estimated to be 150,000 of them in Chicago alone. Did you look at the article I posted about why such an increase in violence? Due to the tearing down of the projects, etc. Instead of turning a blind eye, there needs to be community action to turn the situation around. You hardly “sign up for it” when that’s the only option you see around you and it’s kill or be killed. You’re going to hook up with the biggest, baddest gang you can find. It’s called survival. I know it goes against the grain to try to empathize with the situation, but until you do you won’t stop it.
September 19, 2012 at 10:52 am
FFA says:
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There are many options. You made your choice. I made Mine. They make the choice. We all live with the consequences. I have no sympathy for any of them. Send in the Nat Guard. Kill them all. They should be viewed as domestic terrorists. They make the innocent people around them live in fear. Cant even let the kids play outside their own homes.
We agree on some points, but this one we could not be further apart unless you live in China.
BTW, I am glad Obama lied about closing Git Mo. Why the heck would we want them people on American Soil? He was looking at shipping them to a shuttered prison in IL. Thats all we would have needed.
September 19, 2012 at 10:56 am
Libby says:
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Kill them all and there will just be more. Bigger, badder, and angrier. Not a real solution to the root of the problem. As risk managers, we’re supposed to get to the root cause of accidents in order to prevent them in the future. You don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can be just as angry as they are, but that will not help.
September 19, 2012 at 11:32 am
Agent says:
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Libby, the Liberal Progressives in this country going back to LBJ and the War on Poverty thought they could solve problems by throwing money at it. As a matter of fact, LBJ robbed the Social Security Trust Fund to pay for his War on Poverty and trillions of dollars later, look what we have to show for it. $16 Trillion in debt and gangs roaming the streets in Chicago, LA, NY and other places. We have built housing for them, given them every assistance imaginable from food stamps to welfare, but have not taught them how to be responsible citizens, take advantage of education to get out of poverty. Progressive programs of entitlement have basically bankrupted this country and we are reaping what was sowed.
September 19, 2012 at 11:37 am
FFA says:
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Get to the root of the problem? You have a point. Just like OBama did not do with the ACA – TORT REFORM.
September 19, 2012 at 11:43 am
Libby says:
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I’m not sure how tort reform would help thousands of Americans obtain health insurance. I agree it needs to be addressed, but not in Obamacare. Still not clear on how Obamacare has hurt you. The COBRA laws are not a part of it and it may actually make it more affordable for you down the road. If WI has their own Badger Care, would you qualify for that if you lived there?
September 19, 2012 at 11:53 am
Libby says:
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Agent, you have your facts backwards. Gang bangers are not receiving hand outs. They make more than you and I selling drugs and guns. Why work at McDonalds when you can do that? And have you seen the condition of their schools? I wouldn’t go there either. And in the case of Chicago, the increase in violence has been tied directly to us TEARING DOWN their homes. (Again, you didn’t read my link). Conservative right-wingers think all people less fortunate are looking for a hand-out and feel entitled. Not true. You guys seem to lack even a shred of compassion or interest in what has caused these problems to flourish. It’s not entitlements. It’s poverty, despair, and hopelessness. Those people can not get ahead no matter how hard they want to. They do not have access to the same resources or environment that we do. Try to have some empathy. Not sympathy. Empathy.
September 19, 2012 at 12:01 pm
FFA says:
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It would lower the cost of Med Mal which, ask any doctor, is one of their top expenses. Reduce the underlying cost associated with doing business reduce the amount they have to charge to cover that hugh over head expense. Just like anything else in this world.
September 19, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Libby says:
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I found this site interesting. It has a snapshot of the med mal statutes in each state. They’re all different.
Illinois actually has some limitations. Not many in PA.
September 19, 2012 at 12:28 pm
FFA says:
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5-6 yeqars ago. An OBGYN fresh out of Med School joining a practice that I had insured $75K a years before they even saw a patient. That practice closed its doors two years ago. One Med Mal claim.
A case I am familiar with – Guy died because he did not take his Blood Pressure Meds. $6M award. Three from the Doc. $3M from the hospital. Two words – Jury Symapthy.
Google Ill Jury Verdict Reporter. See the madness for yourself. Especially Cook County. Wonder how much of an effect Grey Lord Judges influenced what is going on today 20+ years later.
September 19, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Libby says:
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I’ve always agreed we need tort reform. Hello. I’m in the insurance biz. I just don’t see the correlation with Obamacare.
September 19, 2012 at 1:12 pm
FFA says:
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It was not addressed in OBama Care. Without addressing the underlying issues – the root cause, its just change for the sake of change.
I seen an article recently – I think it was the IJ – where the DOI of PEnn went to seek help from COngress to set up the exchange and got none. So, it seems, the states must turn to the private carriers for assistance. HMMM. Right back to the people that know what they are doing instead of some congress men grab a catch phrase and ride it to Washington.
September 19, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Libby says:
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Obamacare puts the administration of the exchanges in the state’s hands and therefore tort reform would have to be addressed at the state level. Just as the most federal legislation. We have the 2nd amendment, but each state has it’s own gun laws.
The exchanges will be made up of private insurance carriers that do business in the state, just the same as if you purchased it today. It’s just you will have one place to go to get an option for health insurance. Kind of like an independent agent.
I know you’re concerned about tort reform, but you must look to your state legislators for that, not Obamacare. It is designed to establish some rules to make coverage affordable and available to everyone. Whether it succeeds is still to be seen.
September 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm
FFA says:
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Libby, the states dont know what they are doing. Thats why they asked for help from the feds. The feds dont know, so they kick it back to the states.
September 19, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Libby says:
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I’m not familiar enough with how the exchanges are supposed to work. Not sure.
September 19, 2012 at 1:41 pm
FFA says:
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But, Libby, they dont know what they are doing. They ask for help and got none. And when they go ask for help from the private carriers, how much do you think they will cooperate? I would vire them as competition and tell them to go to he%$.
Who doesn’t know? The consumer or the carrier or the government (or all the above :-) ) Not sure what you’re saying in your post.
September 19, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Agent says:
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FFA & Libby, Texas did Tort Reform some years ago. The result of that legislation is an influx of doctors moving to the state to escape the clutches of the Blue States with their legions of Malpractice doctors and unlimited awards. It has made for a better climate for doctors in this state. Apparently, the lobbies by the Malpractice lawyers is so strong in the Blue States, it prevents any meaningful legislation from being passed. They like their gravy train up there. As far as the Exchanges go, that will degenerate into an online app with Medicaid type coverage. The carriers will just process because people cannot be denied coverage due to PreX’s. When the companies take a bath on claims, the HHS will just send them enough money to keep them going. What a system.
September 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm
FFA says:
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Well agent, Give me a T for Texas!
And Libby, neither are the states.
September 19, 2012 at 9:44 am
Agent says:
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Sargent, I stick to my earlier statement that in our area, we have almost no accidental shootings. In larger cities, there are more shootings because they have more thugs and more guns. Responsible gun owners who have conceal and carry permits do not have accidental shootings. It is the unregistered crowd that are not practicing safety that have problems. These gun control freaks had better not mess with Texas or there will be trouble.
You’ll shoot us? Agent, if a police officer can have an accidental shooting, anyone can. And alot of the time it’s not the gun owner who has the accidental shooting. It’s his kid or the neighbor kid. Irresponsible gun owners make me crazy. You shouldn’t be allowed to have them if you can’t keep them unloaded with the safety on and out of reach of people that shouldn’t have them!
Libby, you made one correct statement. “Irresponsible gun owners make me crazy”. Those are the ones who don’t practice safe gun practices and often have unregistered guns and haven’t taken a course. By the way, a robber breaking in is not going to wait until the gun owner gets to his/her gun, loads it and takes the safety off to defend himself/herself. Yes, I would shoot you if you are breaking into my home or tried to rob me on the street or try to steal my car in the driveway if warnings are unheeded. It is not an accident if someone is in fear for their life and property from a thug.
I’m not talking about intentional shootings, OK? I’m talking about accidental shootings, which are in the top 10 causes of accidental deaths in America. They happen. If you have to sleep with a loaded weapon under your pillow, I feel sorry for you. Maybe you should move to a safer neighborhood.
September 19, 2012 at 10:40 am
Agent says:
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I don’t sleep with a gun under my pillow because we have a very safe neighborhood, but the thugs know we have conceal and carry permits in my city and they stick to their drug deals and gang warfare and have to deal with the Police. The last thing they want is to have some citizen blow them away on a home invasion. The only thing the citizen be concerned with is to make sure the perp is in the premises and all is good.
September 19, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Libby says:
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Are you on a first name basis with these thugs? Or do you have a sign, like “Beware of Smith & Wesson” on your front door? How do the thugs know you have a weapon and permit? Just because you live in Texas and everybody does? It’s proven that most gang violence is between rival gang members and the only people getting caught in the cross fire are innocent people that happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I doubt there will be a gang war in any of our neighborhoods anytime soon. You are more likely to have your home invaded by the kid of the neighbor next door than an gang member. Do you want to kill him, too? Or just the “thugs” you reference so blanketly? I envy you Agent. The world is so black and white for you. So easy to make these judgements and feel very smug about them. It’s harder for me. I tend to empathize and try to be open enough to looking at things without tunnel vision.
September 19, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Agent says:
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Libby, Progressive policies in this country for over 40 years and trillions spent to try to lift these people out of poverty and hopelessness, continued deterioration in education with poor schools, no charter schools allowed, bad teachers with no accountability as shown in Chicago and the Democrats say they are on their side. We almost made some progress with Clinton signing onto no welfare without work and now Obama has reversed that by executive order when he didn’t have the right to do it. He wants to keep these people down, keep voting Democratic. Who is keeping them in chains? When you make people dependent on government for an extended period of time, they get used to it and then demand even more. I do have empathy and wish we could get this cycle reversed, but it won’t happen with Progressive Democratic policies.
Just put yourself, for a short moment, in a young, black teen’s shoes living in the ghetto. Mom’s a drug addict and Dad is in prison. Shooting going on all around you and you’re afraid to leave your house without protection. Someone approaches you and offers you more money in a month than you could otherwise make in a year. And you get a bunch of buddies that have your back in the bargain. Do you honestly think that is a “choice”. You could say “No, thanks” but you’d still end up dead. Or you say “Yes” take your chances, and hopefully live the high life if for just a little while before dying. There is no other way out. Now, if that is indeed an accurate depiction, it’s a desparate and hopeless way to live. Entitlements did not cause it. Drugs and the money and violence they bring with it did. Seriously, what are we really doing to address that problem?? Oh no! More government spending on drug programs and education? Impossible! We have to be fiscally responsible while our citizens are living like animals and killing each other. Your simplistic solutions to real life problems are not feasible. It’s much more complex and complicated than taking away what you call “entitlements”. Our society is in deep trouble and it has nothing to do with government spending.
Libby, I will try to forgive you for being so uninformed about the problems in our society and the root causes. I am also offended by your statement that Conservatives don’t care about poor people. The thing I have noticed over the years is that Liberals/Progressives never see the error of their ways or philosophies and never ever take responsibility for their actions. Do you think that Conservatives have caused the poverty that is so rampant in several of our major cities? Why aren’t you blaming the government and their misguided policies for the problems in these cities? Politicians in both parties are responsible for the failures and they think they can just throw more money at a problem and it will right itself. You are like an alcoholic that has not admitted their problem before they can get help. Your belief system tied to Progressive Democrats & RINO’s is extremely flawed. I do agree with your last statement that our society is in deep trouble and it has everything to do with how our government has approached the problem with programs that don’t work and has continued the misery index for nearly 50 years. It boils down to politics and keeping these poor people in their place.
September 19, 2012 at 2:16 pm
FFA says:
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See Derick Rose.
September 19, 2012 at 2:17 pm
FFA says:
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See Jimmy Grahm – TE NO Saints.
September 19, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Libby says:
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I appreciate your forgiveness. But I do think conservatives have had alot to do with slowly squeezing out the middle class and creating more poverty. Yes siree. Used to be owning a home and having a retirement pension were pretty much a given if you got a job, worked hard, and did the right thing. That is no longer the case. I’m sure politians played a part, but I’m not convinced it is totally the democrats that are to blame. It’s just another example of why trickle down does not work. The rich are, and have been getting richer. Why then does it not trickle down and create MORE middle class rather than less? I’ll tell you why, because the rich are rich for a reason. And it’s not because they spend their money. They hoarde it and stash it and hide it to avoid paying taxes on all of it. I read the other day that people that make $1M+ through investment interest pay little to no taxes, while people that make $1M+ in salary pay more than 15%.
September 19, 2012 at 2:35 pm
FFA says:
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So, Reverse the flow and have trickle up poverty is the solution?
September 19, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Libby says:
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I love your trickle up poverty line, but no, that’s not what I’m suggesting. If I had all the answers I’d run for office. But then again, I’m too honest so forget that. I want to get rid of loopholes that favor the rich, punish those guilty of corporate greed to the extent of hurting others (Enron, Madoff, wall streeters, etc.) and I want them to reimburse those they stole from for a start.
September 19, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Libby says:
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Wonder how many of those people I listed are democrats???
September 18, 2012 at 6:23 pm
FFA says:
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What part of the Country are you from Sarge? Detroit?
Thank you FFA. Well said. Libby didn’t even bother to read my post that said Progressive Democrats and RINO’s have caused the failed policies. She said she didn’t believe it was just the Democrats that caused the problem like I accused them. Are they the ring leaders? I believe so, but RINO’s were reaching across the aisle to pass all this legislation over the years. Her belief system is to make poverty trickle up from the bottom and take a bite out of the middle class. The reason why the Middle Class is getting hosed is the wild, rampant spending, borrowing from China at $3.5 Billion per day, taxation that is crippling the job creators and entitlement spending which is at an all time high. Their big goal is to make everyone equally poor in the interest of “fairness”. Forgive me for not wanting to go onto a diet of beans and rice like they do in Cuba and Venezuela.
I did read your post, Agent. I just don’t agree with it entirely. And RINO’s are still Republican, last time I checked. How do you tell them apart? Is there a secret handshake?
It is really very easy to tell them apart Libby. Republicans In Name Only are the Progressives with an “R” behind their name. They don’t stand for Conservative principles, but have bought into the Progressive agenda by compromise. Yes, they do have a secret hand shake. It is called reaching across the aisle. Progressives never compromise their agenda. If a Republican compromises, they adopt the big spending agenda which has failed so miserably for nearly 50 years. I hold them equally accountable. John McCain and his joined at the hip mate Lindsey Graham are the worst examples and McCain has even said that Teddy Roosevelt was his hero. What a travesty!
YAHOO!!! Our kids in Chicago are back in school. Rahm was pushing them to court for an injunction. Finally hammered out a deal.
He should have stuck to his guns and brought in the Union Busters from WI.
FFA, from what I read about this, the teachers still don’t have to be rated for competency and didn’t give up any benefits. The legacy of failure continues under the big, bad union. Chicago is broke so I don’t know where the money will come from unless Obama bails them out through the Education department. They have affirmed that they can hold Chicago hostage with their demands.
If I understood the news last night correctly, teacher evals are watered down, merit pay is off the table. Defies logic. They have a system on the table that allows the better teachers better pay and the union dont want it.
Besides how would it look – OBamas former right hand breaking a union 7 weeks before the election? I wonder if there were some late night phone calls between Rahm & Barak with Barak urging Rahm to cave. Yes, I have suffered long enough under Ill Politics for that though to pop in my head.
First you’re upset Rahm is not doing something to end the strike and the kids are suffering. Then he does something to end the strike and you’re still not happening. Weren’t you against him forcing an injunction? I can’t keep it straight other than to come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter what Emmanuel or Obama do, you all are going to complain about it. But then again, Bush couldn’t do anything right in my eyes, so I do understand.
Im was upset at both sides. These are kids that need to be in school to put then selves to be in the best position to escape the life of crime you and I discessed elsewhere. I am not happy with a 50% spike in the murder rate since he took over. I am against Rahm for that reason and that reason only. I would like to hop a train to Cell Field and take in a ball game with my Gr Kids but wont. Forget the Cubs this year. Boy wonder traded away our two best pitchers. (Your not welcome agent) and our catcher. I am not happy with unions either for not hammering this thing out while scholl was not supposed to be in session. Too many of my clients sitting home waiting for the hall to call. OBama – his ACA and being from IL – need I say more about him? Your a better option for the simple fact your not from IL.
Too many people not working. He could step on the foreign trade agreements, but dont. We need our jobs back. We do not need more debt. Instead, with out my permission, he puts me in debt to the Chinease.
I sit here staring at trickle up poverty coming to grab my but and suck me into the Give A Way life style and I dont like it.
So, to sum it up – Unions Bad. Rahm – Bad. OBama – Bad. Grunt & Oink! Nothing good going on.
September 20, 2012 at 8:01 am
Libby says:
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Gee, after listening to you and Agent, I think I’m just going to slit my wrists and get it over with. But wait! I’m Pollyanna so I can’t. Things will get better. Today is another day!
September 20, 2012 at 12:40 pm
FFA says:
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So, the news last night stated that Rahm partially caved on the Teacher Evaluations and the Union caved on letting the local principle in on hiring decisions. They also stated that they do not have the money to pay the contract. That came from Rahm & the CTU. Both know they cant pay for it?? Rahm got his longer school day. Later in the news, the Event Tax is increasing to the highest in the country. Good luck drawing big name entertainers into the UC.
Now, the news guy injected that between 120 & 180 schools will need to close to cover the cost. He also stated that many of them were set to close due to poor performance anyways.
My opinion, Rahm won with comprimise. Teacher Evals are coming into play. The crappy schools were set to close anyways. evaluating the school “trickels down” to evaluating the teachers. They are going to get canned anyways.
Many of my friends were very upset with the CTU. The head of the CTU says she speaks for the children.
My Opnion – BS. Greedy Bitch. I guess I would call this whole thing a loss for kids and a win for Rahm and a slight victory for the teachers as the bad teachers will be canned and the good will make more money. The bad schools will close anyways. A black eye for the union. The CTU seemingly is getting the bulk of the blame from the parents that I know personally.
Now Rahm, fix the Murder rate. Daily had it on the run with his gang task force you eliminated. Maybe, just maybe Daily had the right thing in place??? Are you too arrogant to admit you made a mistake? Time will tell.
September 20, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Libby says:
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This is an except from an article from yesterday’s Chicago Sun-Times:
There is no way Chicago is going to significantly reduce the violence without investing resources in the communities where the violence is occurring.
Every time an ex-felon walks out of prison and returns to the neighborhood without even a job prospect, that person is ripe for trouble.
And how long will a young person who is struggling with basic reading, writing and math skills be content to sit in the back of the classroom pretending to learn. It won’t be long before that kid finds himself carrying a gun like a bookbag.
Obviously, non-blacks have committed murder in this city.
But day after day, the faces of the victims and the perpetrators of homicides are black. Imagine how that must impact young black children who are trying to survive in neighborhoods hard hit by foreclosures and high unemployment.
Worse yet, the largest employer in some neighborhoods on the West and South Sides is still the drug trade.
The city needs to find additional resources so that there are alternatives to this negative pursuit in neighborhoods that are impacted by these violent crimes. Besides police presence, these residents need access to counseling, recreational facilities and jobs.
Actually helping the people who are being impacted by the killings is a first step toward breaking this negative cycle.
Libby, there is just as much white trash out there as there are the blacks that you referr to.
People make choices. The trash (black, white,chritian, muslum, male,female) you referr to have free will that god gave them. Their choices are a their own. They can choose to rise above. They can coose to sink below.
I dont believe in this oh poor baby crap. When life dumps on you, pick your self up and move on. Sitting in the same place, doing the same thing day in and day out expecting different results – its just foolish. No one can be that stupid. They can be that lazy.
Thats the problem in todays world – too many people making too many excuses for people not pulling their load. I got done with college and got handed a stack of app with out anyone promising me anything!
And now all these dead beat piles of crap sticking their hand out wanting a piece of what I built on my own. I see it in my own house. My daughter says to me “I’m going to get a cell phone on your account because it would be cheaper”. I said “like hell you are. Go get a job”. She said “well how am i supposed to blah blah blah peppered with excuses and self pitty”. I’ll tell you how, get your ass up in the AM and find a job”. She says “But excuse, excuse,excuse” The generation of entitlement – I’m entitled because I am here.
Screw that noise. People need to get off their dead asses and find jobs. This jack ass in the white house needs to cut the cronic bumbs off. Drug test all the dead beats getting give a ways. Wonder how many are unemployed because they cant passs a piss test.
BTW, Suntime is generally a democratic slanted paper. They recently busted their union.
So, enough of the poor baby excuses. What ever happened to personal accountabaility?
September 21, 2012 at 8:44 am
Libby says:
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Since the thread of the post was discussing the murder rate in Chicago, I was talking about gang violence. These guys aren’t getting a hand out. They’re making more money that you and me put together. But they’re killing each other and innocent people in the process. You’re the one living in Chicago and complaining about street violence. As long as you consider all these people to be trash, they haven’t got a chance. You are helping perpetuate the problem, not solve it.
September 21, 2012 at 10:07 am
FFA says:
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Caught me on the wrong day at the wrong time.
I have no sympathy for the gang bangers. They make their choices.
September 21, 2012 at 10:09 am
Libby says:
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I don’t think they have many choices…
September 21, 2012 at 1:17 pm
FFA says:
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We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Way too many programs for these poeple to lean on that excuse.
People who preach that are just enablers.
September 21, 2012 at 1:19 pm
FFA says:
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Yea, its pretty bad in this state.
September 21, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Libby says:
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We can agree to disagree. I’m fine with that. But I was not preaching or enabling. I was attempting to get to the root cause of the problem, as that is the only way to get rid of it. Condemnation and more rage and violence is not the answer. But that’s OK. You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions.
September 19, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Libby says- “And Sarge, if this could just as easily been done with a sawed off shotgun or revolver, why does anyone need an automatic weapon? You just kinda proved my point on that one, old boy.”
No Libby, I made my point and you missed it, again. The point is why limit or ban guns when that incident could have happened with a variety of guns? For example, the columbine shooters (cowards that they were) used one automatic weapon(actually I think it was semi auto)a tech 9. They also used two shotguns and a rifle. So which guns do you want to ban?
In this country a citizen (responsible or not)can not own an automatic weapon of any kind unless they have an FFL (Federal Firearms License). They can own semi auto weapons and there is a big difference. Now, I would go so far as to agree with a ban on certain types of cheap, poor quality, inaccurate and knock off type weapons, like knock off AKs. They are cheap and often dangerous. The problem is, who administers this and who will understand which are poor quality and which are not? Also, with the bozos in government who is to keep them in check and not add more and more quality arms to the bad list? I don’t trust the “I am from Washington and here to help bunch” or state gov for that matter to administer something like this
I obviously don’t know much about guns, nor do I want to. But why does an average citizen need an assault weapon? Is it just some macho BS I’m missing or what??
No good answers for this one? There is no good reason for an average citizen to own an assault weapon, that’s why. In typical guy fashion, you just ignore the questions you can’t answer.
Sargent, Libby doesn’t seem to think poor people have any choices except to ply the drug trade and be criminals or be on the government dole. They have been brainwashed by the main street media and liberal politicians for several decades into believing this is their station in life. The majority of these people do not have 2 parents to raise them right and encourage education. I personally know several black men and women who escaped from poverty and got an education and got good jobs in the insurance industry. They live just like we do and are living the American Dream. They don’t like what Obama and his minions and RINO’s have done anymore than we do. The War on Poverty started by LBJ to lift these people up was one of the biggest travesties ever foisted upon the American People at the cost of trillions of dollars and these people are products of dependency. The politicians want to keep these people down, keep them uneducated and keep them voting for the Democrats.
You guys don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. It’s hard to pull up by your bootstraps when you have no boots. But you wouldn’t know anything about that type of life. You’re too busy judging and damning anyone that doesn’t fit into your idea of what is acceptable. Intolerance is ignorance in disguise. I have no use for people with no empathy. You’re all hopeless!
Libby, Conservative do have empathy for the plight of the poor, but we disagree vehemently with the politics of despair and hopelessness that Progressives espouse. Places like Detroit and Chicago are the posterchildren of liberal policy over decades despite all the help they have been given. It has been all one huge failure from the beginning because all the wrong things have been done. Then, we have a President who openly believes in redistribution of wealth which penalizes successful job creators and gives the money to the n’er do wells and we see how we will be Chavez in a few years. By the way, Chavez is struggling in his re-election campaign due to a failing economy, poor public services and lack of freedom with his citizens. This sure sounds familiar to me. If he didn’t have oil to sell to us, he would have already been out of there.
Funny, Illinois and Michigan are not anywhere near the top 50% of states receiving government funding per capita. The top 10 are Alaska, Virgina, Maryland, Hawaii, New Mexico, Kentucky, Alabama, West Virginia, Connecticut and North Dakota; with Alaska at #1. They are actually towards the bottom of the list. It doesn’t appear to me that Progressives have “thrown money” at these states to help solve their crime and poverty problems.
I hope you are in the suburbs instead of Detroit proper. That has been shown as pretty much like a third world country with decaying neighborhoods, rampant crime and street thugs. How many mayors have they had convicted now for corruption? How much population have they lost due to flight? I have heard that Detroit has lost almost half its population in recent years. Is that close? Protect yourself Sargent by whatever means are necessary.
Yes, live in the burbs. I love what the city used to be, not what it is now. The city council are a bunch of crooked idiots and the Mayor is Dave Bing former Detroit Piston and hall of fame B-Ball player. I like Dave but he gets no help from the City council. The former mayor has been indicted on 19 counts of racterring and that was after he was convicted of perjury among other charges. He has spent tim in prison and looks like he might go back.By the way, the last time they had a Republican in the mayors office was 1967. Now that is a testimonial to wealth redistribution if I have ever seen one. Detroit has had more federal and state tax money poured into it than just about any major city and it has been a failure. aybe Romney should hold it up as an example of federal redistribution failure.
I go down to the city to watch the Tigers, Wings and Lions occasionally.
All the republicans left cuz there’s no money in Detroit anymore. Republicans are like groundhogs, they can sniff out money like nobody’s business. Auto and steel industries are toast there. Mostly due to corporate outsourcing overseas (read greed) than to anything else. I know, I know. They wouldn’t be outsourcing if the democrats hadn’t taxed them to death. I say bullshit. Unions priced their workers right out of jobs. Why pay $35 an hour when you can go overseas and pay $3.50 an hour (if that!). It wasn’t taxes that drove them overseas, it was cheap labor.
1. The easy answer to the $35 an hour to pay $3.50 an hour is the ending result. My father ran high up at both Space Labs Medical and Fluke. Space Labs Medical charged him with managing costs with India manufacturing jobs as well as China. The first thing to note is that NO ONE has a cost of 3.50 an hour if the cost here is $35. The ratios go as high as 5. They do not surpass 5. He said he could hire maybe 4-5 engineers in China for the cost of hiring one here. However, the cost of making the product did not go down, because then he needed one engineer here to check the work, and one translator to be able to inform the engineer how to fix the work, as well as a manager who was proficient enough in both engineering, manufacturing, and was capable of speaking multiple languages. Quiz question: How easy is it to find a manufacturing engineering experienced manager in China who also speaks english? It’s nearly impossible. He ended up hiring one of those here. How much does one of those cost? About $200,000 a year at Space Labs Medical. The cost of doing business over seas is rarely cheaper than doing business here, when accounting for all operational costs. My brother worked for Idearc. Idearc had an American team to correct the errors of the Indian team. They had the same set up, a few managers who could speak both languages trying to manage two teams in different languages. It doesn’t work out very well.
2. So you’re saying, the fact that Obama wants to end loopholes to force Oil companies here to pay 30% in the U.S. in addition to the 35% on average they pay in other countries, and that charging that 30% rather than the 9% they are charging now has no effect on thier operational costs? If it were a one billion dollar company that’s a 21% difference, also known as about $200,000,000 dollars, also known as adding 1/5th of their costs to their total costs. Every additional dollar they have they can invest into more jobs and research here. 65% of a tax rate would force jobs over seas.
3. You make the bold assumption that republicans are corporations, or are influencing their actions as your premise in your first section of the debate. Again ignoring that DHL in Oregon was pushed out due to Democrat regulations, In Washington there is building code favoring Comcast, so there are no other companies here other than Comcast, Clear, and in some rare places a third, but Quest doesn’t exist in the west. And also ignoring that the democrat Ohio senator is tasked with passing flight regulations, and he passed regulations that would have killed Fed Ex flight shipping in favor of UPS (did you miss that one?) and that the democrat senator said he wouldn’t listen to any other state’s comments on the matter because he was the Ohio senator not the senator for anyone else (even though he was passing a federal regulation for all states) These democrats are for a fact in bed with corporations. Repubs are completely for getting out of bed with corporations. I challenge you to list anything that was passed by republicans which specifically resulted in the companies leaving (which you implied). If you have nothing, then don’t make the defamatory and unfounded remark.
1) You don’t pay an engineer $35 an hour in the U.S., but you do an assembly worker. Those are the workers I was talking about. The ones that do all the work.
2) The key words here are “Obama wants to”. It hasn’t happened yet, so there is not effect on their operational costs at this time.
3) Yes, I missed that one.
1. I’m aware. But the number of difference still does not surpass 5. So if they are paid $35 here, they are likely paid $7 there.
2. The key words there are this is the democrat path to prosperity. They will go for it. So I’ll hold him accountable for his plans.
3. Interesting.
September 19, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Libby says:
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OK, I’ll concede to $7. Still alot less than $35… And payroll is usually 40-50% of operating expense. Surely nothing to sneeze at.
September 20, 2012 at 8:11 am
Libby says:
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I appreciate the link, Bob, because it debunks the 10% increase you stated in your post:
“Scott said that the Congressional Budget Office said people would pay 10 percent more for policies on the exchange, “so about $2,100 more for a family.” What he doesn’t say is that these policies will have to offer comprehensive coverage. So people will pay more, but they’re also get more benefits. Additionally, the federal government will offer subsidies to many of these people to cut the cost.
It’s also important to remember the CBO’s “apples-to-apples” comparison. According to the agency, people in the individual market will actually pay less for the required amount of benefits under the Affordable Care Act than they would for those same benefits under old policies.
We rate Scott’s statement Mostly False.”
September 20, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Bob says:
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Actually Libby, no, it doesn’t. My post specifically said, the difference between the Republican and the Democrat plan.
The democrat plan takes away choice, determines what you should buy, and increases premiums 10% as a result.
The republican plan had the same coverages, no mandate, and resulted in a 10% decrease INCLUSIVE of the democrat coverages.
It doesn’t debunk anything. You just can’t connect the dots.
September 20, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Bob says:
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Moreover Libby:
I only took that site because it is the only one you will listen to.
I do not agree with the rest of that post at all, and have facts debunking nearly all of it.
I only focused on the one which republicans have actually been talking about. That the $2,100 average increase is the cost of the bill (10%) with coverages the democrats forced into the policy. It increased the cost of coverage.
The republican plan (which we’ve all discussed on the right but you have not) does the same exact covergages, but through competition, even the CBO states that the premiums would go down 10%, or $2,100 premium.
My only goal with referencing a very lousy source, (politifact is lousy whether you’ve figured it out yet or not) is that they themselves agree with the $2,100 increase, and try to back petal and say “but you get better coverage!”.
In comparison to nothing you do. In comparison to the republican plan no you don’t.
September 21, 2012 at 8:32 am
Libby says:
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Bob, the $2,100 doesn’t take into account the subsidies you’ll receive. So once again you have posted an article about costs without also including the credits to show the net effect of the transaction.
September 19, 2012 at 2:32 pm
FFA says:
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Did they take their money and run for their life? Sounds pretty bleak up there.
No not Ted. I have met Ted and he is an interesting person. I like Ted’s music and like watching people interview him. I am not a big hunter like he is. I probably fish a little more than he does- Ha.
Agent, at one time the city of Detroit had 1.8 million people growing and was considered to be the best city in the US to live, work, schools etc. It was like a Seattle today for example. Today they would struggle to have 900K residents while the suburbs have grown tremendously. It is still a very large metropolitan area say 5.5 to 6 million, I would guess. The people are here, they just moved out of the city.
Libby, once again you are WRONG. Gm’s headquarters is in the Ren Cen downtown on the river, Chrysler has one of its largest and most modern assembly plants on the east side of the city. They employ around 5500 workers in that plant. Blue Cross Blue shields headquarters is in the city, Quiken loans is moving downtown. Their is Comerica Park, Ford Field and the UAW’s headquarters is downtown. Chrysler has actually leased enough office space downtown to house all the executive staff and then some and are moving as soon as the space is finished.The Henry Ford Health system (one of the largest in the country) is downtown, not to mention MGM Grand, Motor City Casino, Greektown, Fox Theatre and on and on.
I stand corrected Sarge. You certainly know Motown better than I do. But Detroit proper has lost 25% of it’s population and demographics are changing for a reason. Are you saying the auto industry had nothing to do with it?
Te problem with Detroit is the people who run it think a cty council job or the Mayor’soffice is a license to steal from the citizens. One council member is in jail for taking bribes. Her name- Monica Conyers the Wife of Congressman JOHN CONYERS. Another councilwomen Martha Reeves (Martha Reeves and the Vandellas) owes a bunch of money to the IRS and loos like she paid the IRS with money she took from the city. The Mayor had a pay to play scam in which anyone who wanted to do any city business had to pay the mayor and his possed before they would get a contract. Theyhave a city payroll tax of 1.5% that everyone who works in the city has to pay and just disappears. The school system is one of the worst in the country. They have a 25% graduation rate. in Other words, if your child is enrolled in detroit schools as a kindergardner, only 25% will graduate high school. Libby- would you live in a city an send your children to Detroit city schools- No you would not. The city services are so poor they can’t even pick up the trash and two thirds of the street likes don’t even work while crime is one of the highest crime rates in the US and tops in murder and rape. All of this after the federal government and the state sends billions of dollars that is wasted. In Detroit the state spends almost $10,000 per pupil per year. That is as much or maybe even a little more than my city and my city has a 98% graduation rate. In fact my city, along with the rest of the state has to subsidize etroit’s lousy school system
That is why people don’t live in Detroit
Which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did people move out and then schools went downhill because the tax base shrunk? Or did the schools go downhill so people moved out of the City? What caused the change in demographics is my question. I understand the effects of the change, just not the reason. Just curious. Not picking a fight with this one…
Sargent, I guess your post did not enlighten Libby enough. Detroit has a long history of corruption in the mayors office and city council and it has been very poorly ran for a quarter century. By the way Libby, it wasn’t Conservative Republicans in charge over that entire period of time. People fled the city because they could see the handwriting on the wall. That has caused the city to implode and now it shows little promise despite getting all the help from the state and federal government.
During the last quarter century, Detroit actually grew and prospered. It has only been since 2000 that the population has begun to shrink. My question was why? That’s all.
Libby, Detroit has lost at least half its population from the high. Republicans and companies spend a trmendous amount of money in the city. It is the people who run it that keeps it from changing for the good. the FBI and the IRS have a full plate. People who can live elsewhere do so because of poor schools, crime, city payroll tax, lack of city services and it is not going to change unless the regime changes
People left first and left the city to the new mayor, a guy named Coleman Young who stood up and said if you don’t like us get the H*ll out of the city.
One last comment and then I have to go make some money. The former, indicted Mayor of the City of Detroit is a guy by the name of Kwame Kilpatrick (yes, that is his name and people elected him) He is the son of Congresswoman Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick (D) Detroit. His Father is also indicted in the racketeering scam.
Surely his mother would know nothing about the criminal enterprise that her husband and son and involved in???
Democrats involved in corruption is not exactly news to anyone. Neither are republicans involved in corruption. Being a politician implies some level of crookedness, doesn’t it?
You are right Libby. That is why it is so puzzling that you stand by your statement that Obama has been “noble” and “honest” with the American People. He and his administration take deviousness and outright corruption to a new level. It has been shown that some of the biggest crooks like Corzine and all the green energy guys that have gone belly up were big bundlers of cash for Obama’s coffers. They took hundreds of millions of our tax dollars and gave a lot of it back in campaign contributions. How crooked is that? Corzine seemed to misplace $2bil of investors money and doesn’t know what happened to it. My guess is a lot of it is in the Obama bank account.
Those are pretty serious accusations to be hurling. They may be true, but I stand by my “feeling” that Obama is sincere when he says he wants to improve the life of Americans. He just may not be talking about the same Americans you are. Being a white, educated, middle class male means you don’t belong to the minority…
Libby, Libby, Libby. You are suffering from brainwashing. Your President has been lying to you for 4 years and you still don’t get it. I do believe he is sincere in wanting to redistribute the wealth of the country (his own words) and make everyone equally poor. A real President represents all Americans and does not seek to divide by race, class or economic status. He does not go around the world apologizing to other countries for America either. He also does not lie about the travesty in Benghazi for a week before admitting it wasn’t a demonstration after all but a planned attack by Al Quida. He just cannot admit that he has ever made a mistake in judgment and seeks to blame someone else if things go bad. It is high time that this guy be retired and all his minions who believe the way he does. It is time you dispensed with your “feeling” and started using your brain and common sense.
September 21, 2012 at 9:55 am
Libby says:
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Since the majority of Americans are not wealthy fat cats, he is representing the real America. The middle, lower-middle and poor classes of people. We are the ones that need help. Not wealthy fat cats who’s incomes GREW by 17% last year, while everyone else had theirs shrink by percentages greater than that. How is that possible if they are so put-upon by tax-hungry democrats? Give me a break! When the going gets tough, the rich get richer and everyone else gets the shaft. Obama is seeking to close the gap between the classes so that everyone has the opportunity to prosper, not just the 1-4%. And I’m all for it.
September 21, 2012 at 11:41 am
Agent says:
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Libby, your attack on the wealthy holds no water. If your President was really for “all” the people, he wouldn’t have done what he has done to shrink the net worth of the middle class by 25% in 4 years. It wasn’t the wealthy that instituted these Progressive schemes. The wealthy would rather see the middle class do well so more can buy homes, cars and other products and services which will allow them to do well. Instead, we get terrible policies, spending at record levels, more dependency which drags us all down and keeps jobs from being created. This is commonly called “Trickle up Poverty” and that is Obama’s plan to a T.
September 21, 2012 at 11:53 am
Libby says:
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The shrinking of net worth can not be laid at Obama’s feet. That started before he was even elected and is a result of greedy Wall Streeters who made bad loans, stole from the middle class, and made complicated deals hedging all their bets. And who are these greedy Wall Streeters you might ask? They damn sure aren’t the poor and middle-class shmucks that suffered from their actions. They’re fat cats that made their millions off the backs of the American people. They ought to all be in jail.
September 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Libby says- “During the last quarter century, Detroit actually grew and prospered. It has only been since 2000 that the population has begun to shrink. My question was why? That’s all.”
I don’t know where you get your information but you are wrong- again. I have lived here a long time and no the city has not grown and prospered in the last quarter century. Here are the stats from the Detroit Fress Press which is a liberal (as you might expect) paper and what they will admit to.
Libby, Actually most of the shrinkage can be laid at the feet of Obama. Gasoline prices doubled, food prices skyrocketing, utility bills going through the roof. How has that helped the middle class? Some of these so called crony fat cats are buddies of your President and contribute heavily to his campaign. Many of the former employees of Goldman Sachs are now working in the administration. The Housing crisis started with Fannie & Freddie and your pals Barney Frank & Chris Dodd saying everthing was just fine and no worries. We all know how that turned out. The current demise of the middle class was a direct result of Progressive policies instigated by both parties with insane policy decisions & out of control spending. If your President was really interested in helping the middle class, he should adopt Conservative solutions and help business create jobs instead of penalyzing them for success. He would have an energy policy that would bring production to this country instead of trying all these green schemes that all go belly up after they use up their loans. Margaret Thatcher said it best that with Socialism, pretty soon you run out of other peoples money.
Since the income of the fat cats (republican & democrats) increased 17th this past year, how are they being penalized? Alot of these guys do not create jobs with their wealth. They may donate some to charities of their choice (tax deductible) but hedge fund managers and venture capitalists are not creating jobs for the middle class. They are slowly squeezing the life out of us. And green technology is a must if we are to look to the future of this planet. Sooner or later we will run out of oil and it won’t matter who’s money runs out.
Libby, Let’s try to keep our eye on the ball. You keep railing against the so called fat cats because they made money and have signed onto the Progressive mantra that they need to pay more of their fair share. We could tax them 100% and it wouldn’t be a drop in the bucket since we are borrowing $3.5 Billion a day from China to keep this government afloat. We should agree that the middle class is getting hosed and small business is getting hosed and they are the job creators. They need relief from overwhelming taxes and regulation or there will be no jobs created and the middle class will continue to drop into the abyss of despair and hopelessness. Government is what is squeezing the life out of us, not venture capitalists. By the way, the Bakken Basin & Green River basin has over 3 Trillion barrels of proven reserves in them and that is in just two areas. I would rather create some energy right now rather than trying to make gas out of switchgrass, algae or cow dung like all these failed green companies have done.
You bet Libby. States that are actively seeking and drilling for energy have among the lowest unemployment rate. Their big problem is to find housing for workers on the increased activity. North Dakota and Oklahoma have the most activity going on and I applaud them for creating great private sector jobs. Texas would be down there also if they didn’t have so many illegals swimming the river adding to our woes. We do have a very active Oil & Gas expoloration operation going and Texas created more private sector jobs in the past two years than all the blue states combined. Gee, I wonder how we did that since our President said we didn’t do that.
September 24, 2012 at 8:14 am
Libby says:
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Agent, did you watch 60 Minutes last night? Both Romney and Obama were on. It was interesting and very telling.
September 24, 2012 at 2:41 pm
FFA says:
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I dont get it. Why do you begrudge people for making more money then most? They live the American Dream and be all they can be. Its the land of opportunity.
Donating to charity does not help the country out? Charities need to pay employees. They need research money.
So what. SOmeone makes a Mill a year. I’m jelous. I dont carry a grudge. Just because they did it and I didnt? Nor do I think it should be taxed away from them to pay for someone who dont carry their weight. I believe in helping people out, but I do not believe in being taken advantage of.
Any why watch 60 minutes when there was a perfectly good foot ball game to watch. An hour long political ad that says I’m better then you? Dont we hear enouigh of that crap interupting our good tv shows?
September 24, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Libby says:
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I don’t begrudge anyone making money in this country. What I begrudge are the loopholes and sheltering afforded to them so they are able to pay less (percentage wise) tax than I do. If I pay 15% on ALL my income, shouldn’t they be required to do that too? Instead they are afforded loopholes and options for sheltering income that allows them to pay 15% on less than 100% of their earnings. I certainly believe in the American dream and if someone can succeed and make money, more power to them. That only gives me hope that I have that opportunity, too. But pay your fair share, that’s all I ask.
September 24, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Agent says:
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I am with you FFA. Ball games are much better than watching 60 minutes. CBS is just one example of a biased network committed to the re-election of this President. I shudder to think of Bob Schieffer conducting one of the debates. He will be trying his utmost to slant the questions to Romney and try to make him look bad and soft balling the President.
September 24, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Libby says:
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The piece was quite good actually. And we switched back and forth to the game. The questions were pretty evenly matched and no-one was softballed compared to the other. I thought it was very informative and enjoyed it.
September 24, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, I certainly don’t critcize Romney for giving $4 million to charity. It will do a whole lot more good than giving it to the government to waste. I tithe to my church and they do very good work with it and actually give people a helping hand up instead of a hand out. If charitable giving is attacked and becomes part of taxes, a lot of churches will be hurting big time and will go away.
September 24, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, The story came out a couple of years ago that Bite Me Biden paid less than 1% of his income to charity and they have the gall to criticize Romney when he give a lot to charity, around $4 million. Lurch Kerry is worth an estimated $300 million with his wife, the picle queen and they avoid paying taxes like the plague. He moved his yacht from Massachusetts to Rhode Island to avoid the yacht taxes. They are the biggest hypocrites in politics.
September 19, 2012 at 6:02 pm
Sargent Major says:
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Libby-
The reason why? read my other post. No one who can afford to live elsewhere wants to live in Detroit due to: A high crime rate, abysmal public school system, poor city services including trash, sewer. two thirds of the street lights in the city don’t work, and a corrupt city government with absolutely no desire to change. Money is poured into the city and wasted. Responsible people won’t live in a city like this and don’t want their tax money wasted
Have you seen Farenheit 911, Bowling for Columbine, or An Inconvenient Truth??? Also, interesting, factual, and telling. I was just asking if you watched 60 Minutes and your opinion of the interviews. If you didn’t watch or have to opinion, just say so. Romney and Obama were both on and given equal time to respond to questions. I thought it was a good representation of both sides.
Libby, What you are not realizing about taxable income is that it was earned to start with and taxed under wages or salaries at higher rates. Investment income is the result of taking risks where the money could be lost on a bad investment. If the investor is wise and makes money on his investment, he is taxed again under capital gains. How many times should a person be taxed on money he has made? How is that not his fair share? I do agree that the Tax Code sucks and needs to be scrapped and replaced, kind of like Obamacare.
Hypothetically Libby, If you had $100,000 of money you earned by salary and were taxed on and built up a nest egg by saving it and made an investment that went south and you lost everything, would you take a tax deduction on that lost money on your taxes? If you made money on your investment, do you have a problem being taxed again at 15% of your “Capital Gain”?
Only on the amount over and above the $100,000 I started with. I’m OK with taxing that, as it is now income.
September 24, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Agent says:
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What percent would you be willing to pay on this gain? Do you want the same percent that Romney pays or 30% so you will be paying your “fair” share? If you got lucky and made $50,000 on your investment, you would have to cough up $15,000 on your gain. Under present rules, you would only pay half that or $7,500. You took the risk, could have lost it or most of it and because you were wise, you made some money. I don’t think it is right for government to tax us on what we earn and later put a high percent on our investment income, do you?
September 25, 2012 at 8:28 am
Libby says:
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I only made capital gains once in my lifetime (in the 90’s) and it was taxed like you wouldn’t believe. Did I like it? No. Did I have to pay it? Yes. The rules are the rules and they should apply to everyone. I’m not worried about someone having to pay 30% on their gravy train. Sorry. I’m more worried about me, my family, and my friends who are struggling to make ends meet and feed our families. You won’t get any sympathy from me on this one.
September 20, 2012 at 11:59 am
Sargent Major says:
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Wow, Libby- you don’t get it.I read the wikipedia site. If you go to Demographics the numbers are pretty close to my numbers. The city has been in decline since the 1960’s What you must be looking at are the metro and region numbers. Those populations have grown and have prospered but that is not the city. That is where people like me live in the suburbs and outside of the city limits. That is north of 8 mile rd. I never said the metro area (suburbs) is in decline, just the opposite. It is the city we are talking and not many want to live in it.
Sarge, my impression of Detroit has always been that it is a cesspool. You’re the one that said:
“Gm’s headquarters is in the Ren Cen downtown on the river, Chrysler has one of its largest and most modern assembly plants on the east side of the city. They employ around 5500 workers in that plant. Blue Cross Blue shields headquarters is in the city, Quiken loans is moving downtown. Their is Comerica Park, Ford Field and the UAW’s headquarters is downtown. Chrysler has actually leased enough office space downtown to house all the executive staff and then some and are moving as soon as the space is finished.The Henry Ford Health system (one of the largest in the country) is downtown, not to mention MGM Grand, Motor City Casino, Greektown, Fox Theatre and on and on.”
Which go me thinking “That doesn’t sound like decline to me.” So I looked it up on Wiki. That article also goes on to say:
“In the 1990s, the city began to receive a revival with much of it centered in the Downtown, Midtown, and New Center areas. One Detroit Center (1993) arose on the city skyline. In the ensuing years, three casinos opened: MGM Grand Detroit, Motor City Casino, and Greektown Casino which debuted as resort hotels in 2007–08. New downtown stadiums were constructed for the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Lions in 2000 and 2002, respectively; this put the Lions’ home stadium in the city proper for the first time since 1974. The city also saw the historic Book Cadillac Hotel and the Fort Shelby Hotel reopen for the first time in over 20 years.[26] The city hosted the 2005 MLB All-Star Game, 2006 Super Bowl XL, 2006 World Series, WrestleMania 23 in 2007, and the NCAA Final Four in April 2009 all of which prompted many improvements to the downtown area. In 2011, Detroit Medical Center and Henry Ford Health System substantially increased investments in medical research facilities and hospitals in the city’s Midtown and New Center.[28][29]
The city’s riverfront is the focus of much development following the example of Windsor, Ontario which began its waterfront parkland conversion in the 1990s. In 2001, the first portion (stretching from Joe Louis Arena through Hart Plaza) of the International Riverfront was completed as a part of the city’s 300th anniversary celebration. In succeeding years, the waterfront gained miles of parks and fountains. In 2011, the Port Authority Passenger Terminal opened with the river walk connecting Hart Plaza to the Renaissance Center. This development is a mainstay in the city’s plan to enhance its economy through tourism.[27] Along the river, developers are constructing upscale condominiums such as Watermark Detroit. Some city limit signs, particularly on the Dearborn border say “Welcome to Detroit, The Renaissance City Founded 1701.”[12][26]”
Again, doesn’t sound like decline. So tell me, where am I wrong or do you, like Bob, argue with me just to argue?
Who are you trying to kid? You refute everything I post. And you’re nasty about it. You don’t do that with others. Especially those that tend to lean in your same direction even when they post slipshod facts and figures. You have definitely made this personal by insulting me and calling me names. You can pretend like you are just “debating” but debates don’t stoop to your levels, personal attacks do. So save YOUR “backpedaling” for someone who admires and respects you.
Like I said, you don’t get it. Most of that is true. It is business who is pumping money into the city, which was in response to your quote “all the Republicans left cause their is no money in Detroit” comment. The Republicans did not leave. They have supported the city. It is the lousy crooked Democrats that have not done their share and stolen the city blind.
There has been plenty of money spent on downtown devleopment. But Detroit is a big city. rea wise it is probably 140 to 150 square miles. Area wise it is large enough to handle 1.9 million or 2.0 million people but it now has 713,770. And while business has spent money on certain areas, which are very nice, There are entire neighborhoods that have been abandoned or might have a family here and there. Since there is no property tax money the police and fire department can’t service the city as large as it is. The money spent on downtown was spent by business and by taxpayers who don’t live in the city. That has nothing to do with the fact that people, who can afford to live elsewhere, don’t want to live in the city. That is why there are only 713,770 residents compared with the 1.85 million in the 50s and early 60s. Today, people drive into the city to work in the morning and drive out in the afternoon. They might, like me,drive into the city to watch a baseball game (beautiful stadium by the way) or may go to the Fox theatre (absolutley beautiful) but they go home, outside the city. The downtown area by the river, Fox district, Greektown are fine to visit and enjoy. But you don’t want to wonder two or three blocks one way or the other unless you know where you are going and or have a gun and preferably a semi auto.
So, for the third or fourth time people don’t want to live in Detroit because there is a high crime rate, abysmal public school system, poor city services including trash, sewer. two thirds of the street lights in the city don’t work, and a corrupt city government with absolutely no desire to change. They are crooked, nincomepoop Democrats who have run it into the ground since the Detroit riots in the late 1960s.
Funny that some folks actually believed that IRS would stay out of this Obamacare issue (tragedy would be more correct). Today, my husband’s employer just sent out an email telling us to keep an eye out in the mail for an audit coming from the IRS regarding dependent insurance coverage. It must be filled out and returned by Dec. 31. If it is not returned in time dependents will be dropped from coverage (I find that part weird since we just had open enrollment last month). So much for them staying out of it.
OMG, the IRS incharge of collecting, these asses can not stop fraud with in the the country. Ask this fool Steven Miller how much his IRS has sent out in fraud tax returns. Jackoff
“IRS Says It Has No Role in Enforcing Health Insurance Mandate.”
Yeah, right. That’s why they’re hiring 15,000 new agents. Don’t worry, I’ll still respect you in the morning.
Anyone believing this nonsense from IRS should be sold some swamp land in Kansas. This was ruled a “tax” by the Supreme Court and the IRS is in charge of tax paying. The Obama Administration running the IRS through a tax cheater has a new motto. Lean Forward – we aren’t through yet.
“Republicans questioned Miller about how many new agents would be needed to apply the law, and whether the agency would be able to keep up its core mission of tax collection.” I seem to remember that the IRS hired 14,000 new employess to monitor us, the tax payers. Weren’t we told that this was once a FEE? We were also told “If you like the plan you have now you can keep it.” We’ll be seeing if that happens too if Obama is re-elected. God I hope not.
These are some of the headlines I saw while researching this topic:
IRS Hiring Thousands of Armed Tax Agents to Enforce Obamacare …
IRS seeks 4,000 agents, $303 million for Obamacare …
IRS hiring 6,500 new enforcers to collect Obamacare tax – …
IRS now hiring 1,054 agents to enforce ObamaCare. This is just …
16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare …
I tend to believe a head of the IRS reporting to a senate subcommittee more than these headlines or the bloggers on this site.
Just because your talking heads tells you something, doesn’t mean it’s true.
“IRS budget requests for the 2012 and 2013 fiscal years show they asked for about 375 more agents so far — far less than 16,000.”
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/jul/10/tom-
price/price-16000-irs-agents-will-enforce-obama-health-c/ and http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
(And to be a smart ass, even IF it were true that the IRS was hiring 15,000 new agents (which it is NOT) shouldn’t we be happy that 15,000 new jobs with federal employee benefits are being created?)
DS–do you and Libby put your heads together to come up with this stuff??
No. But there are more of us out there than are reflected on this blog. There seem to be alot of Chicken Littles posting on here. The sky is not falling and there will not be armed IRS agents knocking on your door for heath insurance taxes. 1984 has come and gone…
The year 1984 may have come and gone Libby, but not Big Brother. The current government has signed onto and will be putting more drones up over America to monitor American citizens. Everything they have done is to exert more control over our lives from Healthcare to over regulation to trying to control the internet. They already have most of the media except for a few outlets. Our society is much less free than it was 10 years ago. We are moving toward a Chavez style banana Republic if this isn’t turned around soon.
They will also be used by Homeland Security to ensure our safety and U.S. Immigration to patrol the borders. 2 things the Republicans have been rabid about. If the government wants to put you under surveillance, they can already do that. What makes you think they would be interested in what a couple of old insurance agents are doing? Because of the Patriot Act, they can just but our phone and read our email to find out!
Not these jiobs. After the work through all the OBama Care stuff, they will find something (Someone) else to pick on.
You would believe what you want to believe anyway. That is what keeps this madness alive
And you as well.
The beauty of it is, we can all believe what we want to today. If BO is reelected you can expect that to change. Two terms of BO will forever smell much worse than any of us are prepared to handle. Just some, too many, are still blaming Bush.
You are exactly correct, PM…Bush is still being blamed. I wonder who Abraham Lincoln blamed it on when he first got into office?!! Look at the mess HE stepped into!!!
Wasn’t it Bush that instituted the “Patriot Act” that allows the government to listen to your phone coversations and read your eamils??? Since when is Obama stripping you of your rights to privacy?
Oh…that’s right, Libby..you also lean forward. Mea culpa.
If you mean forward for change. Otherwise, I’d have to think what you said was being sexist. Oh! That’s right. You’re Ralph Kramden. I guess I should just sit down, shut up, and cook something.
“The beauty of it is, we can all believe what we want to today” That’s all I meant by my post. Don’t understand the thumbs down. But then again, I am down-thumbed every time I post. Even if it’s just about the weather!
Thanks because even your take of the weather leans left.
I’m not all left. But I don’t take it personally. At least people are reading!
Hey Ralph, didn’t you threaten to send Alice to the moon when she disagreed with you? I think those days are long gone. I have to hand it to Libby. She does stick up for what she believes no matter how misguided it is.
That could be because your in a forum with a whole bunch of people who had their income and potential for more income hurt by Obama Care. I know I lost a decent amount and have scrapped selling Group Health all togeather as there is no money in it any more. No,Iam not greedy. I do need to pay my bills. I support 7 people. I need to keep what Income I have.
I was hurt most in 2008 when I was laid off. Found a job making 2/3 what I made before and moved cross country in 2010. Finally got work making 1/3 less than before, but only after many years. Don’t think Obamacare had anything to do with it.
“Wasn’t it Bush that instituted the “Patriot Act” that allows the government to listen to your phone coversations and read your eamils??? Since when is Obama stripping you of your rights to privacy?”
Since he resigned it and voted for it twice without revisions before his presidency.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/27/obama-europe-signs-patriot-act-extension/?page=all
Really Libby. Do your research.
Libby:
What’s more humerous about my link showing Obama repassed the patriot act:
This is consistent in his methods to take actions for war, while blaming Bush.
The patriot act gets passed. Obama insults Bush, and says Bush used Iraq to get it passed and intrude into American’s lives. When Obama passes it, it’s because of threats like in Libya, and the recent attack.
Gitmo is opened. Waterboarding is done on 3 people in Gitmo. Obama demonstrates his opposition before presidency. After presidency he is oddly silent, and states that he is not going to go after Bush for war crimes. He then keeps the place open. 3 years later, one of the three people who were tortured turns out to have given us information before Obama’s presidency which eventually leads to the death of Osama Bin Laden. Now we praise Obama’s great leadership, for Bush’s policies, which lead to the death of Osama Bin Laden. Say what?
And in your case, you actually even not only give him credit, you also state that Bush’s motivations for taking the same actions place him in bed with Saudis. Say what? If another president takes the same actions, he either shares the same motivations (in bed with Saudis) or agrees that taking out Osama with the patriot act and keeping Gitmo open were the right things to do. Considering Obama kept Gitmo open, and resigned the patriot act, I think we can agree that Obama knew Bush was right and exteneded his policies, while using it to get into office, and taking credit for it. I called this before the presidency I might add.
Bottom line: Obama is an extension of Bush. He has invaded your privacies the same exact way as Bush. And if you’re about “going forward” you’re going to have to show me how you are about “going forward”. Because all I see is more of the same, as well as going backwards.
Really, Bob. Obama only resigned three provisions of the Patriot Act. Which means he only agreed with the narrow scope of monitoring suspected terrorists and not American citizens. I’m disappointed in you.
In my opinion, Bush had to go into Iraq & Afganistan the same way it is shaking out that OBama has to now go into Libya. Or we culd just cut off foreign aid to these countries that hate us.
Considering the following link from Huffington post makes no mention of what you just mentioned, and they are the type of liberal site that would point out such revisions, do you have any evidence that the plan is more narrow?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html
Paul Rand attempted to make two revisions. They were both shot down by Harry Reid and his crew.
I’m sorry, you’re going to have to point out how it was more narrow. I’m disappointed in you. That was a poor attempt at a back petal. If you’re going to try and back petal and state it is more narrow you better be able to back it up. This is a liberal site, intentional to keep you from back petaling further or decrying Faux news fowl.
OK, Bob. Here are the provisions he reinacted:
The measure would add four years to the legal life of roving wiretaps — those authorized for a person rather than a communications line or device — of court-ordered searches of business records and of surveillance of non-American “lone wolf” suspects without confirmed ties to terrorist groups.
The roving wiretaps and access to business records are small parts of the USA Patriot Act enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But unlike most of the act, which is permanent law, those provisions must be renewed periodically because of concerns that they could be used to violate privacy rights. The same applies to the “lone wolf” provision, which was part of a 2004 intelligence law.
It’s all spelled out in the article you reference. The entire Patriot Act was not renewed.
FFA, These wild eyed Muslim zealots will not be appeased. The attacks on our embassies was well coordinated to fall on 9/11. It had nothing to do with a stupid video. Al Quida was just waiting for the date to do something to avenge us for getting Bin Laden. All we have had in recent years was apologies for offending these less than humans. All they understand is force or the threat of force. They let our hostages go from Iran the day Ronny was sworn in because they knew what he would do to them if they didn’t.
“These wild eyed Muslim zealots will not be appeased.” Really, Agent? Can’t you say “These wild eyed Muslim terrorist zealots will not be appeased?” The other makes it sound as if you believe all Muslims are wild eyed zealots, which I don’t think is a fair statement. And is a little bigoted…
Libby: Do you know how the patriot act works? Did you read the link?
It is an indefinite law with the civil liberty risk areas needing to be passed every four years. The act was not modified, the sections being voted on were the broad privacy issues. Only 2 ammendments were voted on, from Paul. There were no other ammendments. Therefore, Obama passed the plan as it was, without revision.
”
“The roving wiretaps and access to business records are small parts of the USA Patriot Act enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But unlike most of the act, which is permanent law, those provisions must be renewed periodically because of concerns that they could be used to violate privacy rights. The same applies to the “lone wolf” provision, which was part of a 2004 intelligence law.”
Not true and I did read the link. See my post above.
Libby, Wild eyed Muslim Zealots are Terrorists which is a term your President cannot even say. Some of these zealots are stirring up trouble in the US now and there have been bomb threats at the University of Texas and more in North Dakota. This problem is spreading all over the world and your Appeaser in Chief is attending fund raisers for his campaign and not even attending National Security Meetings for the past week. He is not taking this as a serious problem and it is going to bite him in the butt.
“not true”
Which section and prove it. The patriot act was passed as a constant law, with certain sections needing to be renewed. Obama has modified no sections of the patriot act. He has passed sections of it that were due to expire. How is that in any way him limiting the scope of the patriot act?
List me 1 link with the part of the patriot act he limited.
Libby:
Then you would know that he repassed the parts of the patriot law which specifcally have to be repassed because they violate civil liberties. They are not narrow. They allow the wiretapping, business record pulling, etc.
Do you know how to connect the dots? He signed the most controvertial parts of the bill. Not the narrow parts. Read the article. The whole article goes over why those sections must be repassed. They must be repassed because they give the most violation to civil liberties. He did violate privacy.
There have been changes made to the Act and Obama resigned the 3 parts that were about to expire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
Didnt mean to bring this into the debate. Was just pointing the irony of it all. OBama supporters bash Bush for going into Iraq and now obama if facing the same reality with Libya. One mans Iraq is another mans Libya.
My wife always says that when you bash someone, it always comes around three fold. The circle of life.
Libby:
Again, he passed the parts of the act which allow wiretapping and privacy intrusion. The patriot act was never “intended” for American citizens. I seem to see you are trying to emphasize Non-American ties, as if him repassing those acts is ok because it is for “Non-Americans”. Are you fully aware that this is the same argument us conservatives used against you liberals for the patriot act back in 2004 before the election campaign? That the act would not affect anyone but terrorists?
Obam has made no changes to the bill. Look at your own Wiki link, it even states that no changes have been made. It even lists the change attempts from the Republican I mentioned.
Note the provisions and note which each does. He did not pass more narrow sections of the bill. He passed sections of the bill which make the bill more broad and complete, and violate more civil rights.
201 Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to terrorism
202 Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to computer fraud and abuse offenses
203(b) Authority to share electronic, wire and oral interception information
204 Clarification of intelligence exceptions from limitations on interception and disclosure of wire, oral, and electronic communications
206 Roving surveillance authority under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.
207 Duration of FISA surveillance of non-United States persons who are agents of a foreign power
209 Seizure of voice-mail messages pursuant to warrants
212 Emergency disclosure of electronic communications to protect life and limb
214 Pen register and trap and trace authority under FISA
215 Access to records and other items under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
217 Interception of computer trespasser communications
218 Foreign intelligence information
220 Nationwide service of search warrants for electronic evidence
223 Civil liability for certain unauthorized disclosures
225 Immunity for compliance with FISA wiretap
For Pete’s sakes Libby. I want a listing of the areas he modified and I want to see how he made the bill more narrow. Do you think you can do that, based on the provisions of the patriot act listed in your own link? Which title number was revised??
“I tend to believe a head of the IRS reporting to a senate subcommittee more than these headlines or the bloggers on this site.”
The last section of your post is why you get thumbed down on every post. Let the record show I had nothing to do with your rudeness in this post, so don’t pass the buck over to me.
Further: Post the links. I bet I’ll find what makes the posts accurate at the time posted. Key words being: Expects, may, etc. You tend to read opinion or speculative pieces and confuse them with fact pieces, or for metodology when they are in fact concepts or projections. CBO projections are often wrong due to methodology and projected tax revenues especially, they are the most credible source in the country. You seem to try to then discredit every source based on projection and concept errors rather than actual errors of information. You need to learn the difference. Example: MSNBC states that the average effective tax rate for oil companies is between 9-17%. Forbes says it is 40%. MSNBC only counts the U.S. effective rate, Forbes counts the total taxes. Is there one you should not believe? No. They used different methodology to reach their tax rate numbers. Further example: CBO predicted the percentage of taxes paid by the rich would go down following Bush’s tax cuts. It went up, when accounting for their spending and reinvesting habits to above that of what they were paying during Clinton’s presidency. Was CBO wrong? Not exactly. They used the wrong methodology. In this case it could be the headlines you looked at, when analyzed, would show wording stating that people were expecting that number. Expected numbers rarely turn out when you have a law going into place that is complicated, and you should know that.
The people on this blog, (namely Agent FFA, and Sargeant) are all well versed in politics. Insulting their abilities to have facts is condescending and arrogant. Especially considering you couldn’t even correctly state where Osama was killed, and talked about rich paying less taxes event though they have paid more since Bush’s tax cuts, while implying Clinton resulted in them paying more etc etc. Your facts here have been very muddy at best, and the research skills non-existant. Yet, I have looked up some of your comments in the past and seen why you thought what you thought. Heck, you’ve been right a few times. I do not discount you for being “libby”.
Also let the record show that other Bob at the top is not me…
I didn’t think that was you since you are more eloquent than that with your posts. In fact, you take eloquence and facts to a new level and the pinhead liberals don’t “get it” most of the time. Planet must be on vacation, but I don’t miss him at all.
People on this blog have stated the IRS is hiring 15,000 new agents due to Obamacare as fact. Not a projection. I stand by what I say.
And do you really think the IRS ever had an intention of “Hiring Thousands of Armed Tax Agents to Enforce Obamacare …”? Please!
Rather than big talk Libby, considering you already once in this blog posting slipped up big time in a statement (regarding privacy not knowing Obama signed the same patriot act into play and twice voted on it with no revisions) show me the links.
The companies were attempting to project how many hirings that may be. They were not “lying” like you think they were. Your opinions on how news companies work are ridiculous. News companies rarely, if ever, lie on facts. They “twist” on truths and use a different methodlogy. Reference my Forbes and MSNBC comment Libby. And could we stop with the whole “I’m outraged by the world” mentality? Thank you!
I did not say media sources were lying. I said there is alot of “the sky is falling” talk out there. I’m not citing statistics, so I don’t have to show you any links. DS has shown you a link above. Why don’t you check that out instead of attacking me?
I am not attacking you. I am disproving your comments. Learn the difference.
When you reference several headlines you are liable for providing those headlines. You stated you tend to believe one over another, and discredited several media headlines as well as individuals with those headlines. I countered. This is my response. Are you aware how to debate?
Now then, unless you want your comments about who to believe to be unfounded comments, provide the evidence please. The link from DS is irrelvant. It only proves what the actual number may be. It does not prove whether or not your sources used incorrect methodology or incorrect projections.
Listen, I am not an economist or professional debater. If you really want the links to those headlines, I’ll provide them for you. I was just pointing out that there has been alot of stuff posted about IRS agents being hired to monitor Obamacare taxes and that I tended to believe an IRA head testifying to congress more than a bunch of conjecture and estimates. End of story. I’m not discrediting anyone. Give it a break Bob. Your personal vedetta against me is getting tiresome. For me and everyone else that reads this blog.
Libby:
If you cannot see why your original post which I am discrediting was insulting, then you’re the one in error here Libby.
You made a post with a statement which implied you shouldn’t listen to any of these people, news sites or otherwise, due to credibility. You called in question the credibility. All you had to say was well, he said it, must be true. You were intentionally combating the people here. It’s you who has to end the vandetta.
I didn’t imply anything. I said “I” tend to believe. Not what everyone else should believe. You keep trying to twist the meaning of my words and I will not stand for it. Please Bob, forget my name, phone number, anything. I almost think you are stalking me for Christ’s sake.
…”Your personal vedetta against me is getting tiresome. For me and everyone else that reads this blog.”
It’s not getting tiresome for me, Libby! I have read your posts in this blog and several others and haven’t posted until now…I think it’s fun watching you get ‘told’ and try to defend yourself! And yes–I, too, think you should post the links…how else are you going to get any credibility??
I’m glad you’re enjoying my spanking from Bob. Always willing to provide comedy relief for you smarty pants boys.
You want links??
http://nation.foxnews.com/business/2010/03/22/irs-hiring-thousands-armed-tax-agents-enforce-obamacare
http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-seeks-4000-agents-303-million-for-obamacare/article/416051
http://www.examiner.com/article/irs-hiring-6-500-new-enforcers-to-collect-obamacare-tax
http://www.escapetyranny.com/2011/02/16/irs-now-hiring-1054-agents-to-enforce-obamacare-this-is-just-the-first-wave-will-soon-need-16000-new-irs-agents/
Is that enough? I have more.
Control the emotional side of your debates and you’ll get more progrss. I can see you have not learned much what I’m attempting with you.
Further: Let’s try not to use the lose my number comments. I’m not stalking you. We post on the same site.
Moving forward: I don’t care about additional links. I only cared about the headlines you mentioned. I will review to see what their methodology is.
Further: If you did not mean to make comment about the character/validity of the other parties that you choose not to believe, why would you bring up those parties at all rather than just the ones you wanted to believe?
You brought the others into the conversation. I made darn sure to defend them against your childish bringing them in. I’m not twisting your words. I’m making it clear you don’t even really know how to debate. Your pride seems to be why you mentioned those other people, because they have it wrong and you’ve got it right. There is no other reason to compare their opinions. You made a comparison. Quit back petaling trying to make it seem like I’m the villain for calling you out on it. It was inappropriate. Maybe you should admit it. Just a thought.
Bob, I’m only going to respond to you one last time. I post my opinion on this blog, just like everyone else. I don’t need to defend my position or prove anything to anyone, least of all you. I’m not here to debate, but to have an exchange of ideas. Your idea of debate is combat and I’m not interested. I wasn’t on the debate team and don’t intend to start now. So find someone else to argue with.
Libby:
“And do you really think the IRS ever had an intention of “Hiring Thousands of Armed Tax Agents to Enforce Obamacare …”? ”
You don’t come here to “share ideas”. You come here to make snide comments. Your comments are held to a standard. If you would prefer I not hold you to a standard I can treat you as if you are just an idiot posting on this site.
If you post on a site and expect to be believed and taken seriously, your points must be backed up. The reason your points I mentioned had to be backed up…WAS BECAUSE YOU SPECIFICALLY REFERENCED OTHER PEOPLE IN COMPARISON. This means you were connecting negative attributes to them. No other option. Say you didn’t mean it all you want, you said it. That’s combative.
Now I’m done with my back and forth with you. Grow up.
Cant say I am well versed in politics. I dont believe anything Politicians say any more – especially Illinois Politicians. Even in my Local City Hall I see conflict of interest with our mayor and the way he rubber stamps more and more developments. He was recently appointed at the Ins Agency that writes the Cities Insurance. He works in Building Supply for his full time job.
What I can say is obama Care hurt my ability to feed my family. Now that my Cobra expired, my cost went up over $1300 @ month.
FFA says: “What I can say is obama Care hurt my ability to feed my family. Now that my Cobra expired, my cost went up over $1300 @ month.”
COBRA expiring has nothing to do with the ACA (aka Obamacare for those of you who like to use that term). In fact, COBRA laws were inacted in 1985.
The ACA CURRENTLY has no control over Individual/Family health insurance premiums. BUT come 2014 you may qualify for premium subsidies as a part of ACA, and enjoy limites on the out of pockets maximums that you may have to pay under those plans, so I think Obamacare will actually help you!
*enacted. Sorry for the typo.
Its one of my beefs with Obama Care. Should have let me keep what I had instead of forcing me to go to something else. My Cobra was affordable – the first word in ACA -Affordable Care Act.
Remove the 18 month limitations on the Cobra. If I can afford to pay it, why cant I keep it? Instead we got Cobra Subsidy.
I thank the great state of Cal for the Cal Cobra Provisions. Saved my but for an additional 18 months.
Wow. There really is a sucker born every minute.
Did your company force you into COBRA because of the enactment of Obamacare?
In my head, typos equate to not a paid blogger. Seeing you apploigized, I also appoligize for all my past and every one of my future typos – even the ones in this post.
FFA says:
“Its one of my beefs with Obama Care. Should have let me keep what I had instead of forcing me to go to something else. My Cobra was affordable – the first word in ACA -Affordable Care Act.
Remove the 18 month limitations on the Cobra. If I can afford to pay it, why cant I keep it? Instead we got Cobra Subsidy.
I thank the great state of Cal for the Cal Cobra Provisions. Saved my but for an additional 18 months.”
Okay, so now the ACA was not broad enough. You folks can’t make up your minds. It’s too much regulation, it’s not enough regulation…
I’m in the middle class and slowly – soon to be excelorated- being taxed down to Poverty. The only thing I will qualify for is higher taxxes.
My mind was made up when this thing came down with out Tort Reform. Did not address the underlying problem. If your car has a funny squeek, do you squirt some oil on it and hope for the best? Do you have a mechanic figure out what the problem is, fix it and then squirt some oil on it? Nothing you say or do will ever change my mind about this guy. He is from Illinois. Any – every – Illinois Politician can not be trusted. Hows Jesse Jr working out? Looking over his shoulder – seeing the federal prosecutor coming at him? Setting up an insanity defense?
I also know that I will never change your mind on this subject. You will not change anyone elses mind either. We – everyone in this forum – has made their mind up. So, arguing with me or anyone else is just a waste of time.
So, on to something productive – Any unknown gems on your towns Pro Football Team? Got the skinny on this kid in Dallas out of this Forum.
Have a great week end! Off to the Lake! Maybe I should run by club fed – say hi to the grey lord judges. Maybe the Silver Scoop crooks too.
Maybe Obamacare will help you in the long run. Just sayin.
I cant believe anything the govt does will be better then what BCBS can offer. Years and Years of experience doing it day in and day out for ever vs someone (Govt) just jumping in. How much investment income does BCBS put towards the claims & admin side of things that the Govt wont? Was chatting with a friend of mine that is a state senator. He told me that the States College Investment Fund is damn near broke. He had his kids College planned for except the folks at the State blew the money.
Libby, I have just lost my faith in politicians – especially Illinois Politicians – exceot for my pal. I lived through Grey Lord, Sect of State Scandle, countless numbers getting busted for Bribery not to mention Blago and the other Jail Birds. Folks that live around Wis Dells joke that the only reason the Fed Pen in Brooks was built was because so many Il Politicians needed somewhere to go when they leave office.
I was happy with my Cobra – very happy. Good Company, good coverage, affordable. I left captive to be an IA. I was “forced” to get Group inplace and include one employee as my wife has several Pre X that prohibited Individual Coverage. I have a pending surgery – cornea transplant that I will be forced into getting done soon unless Lasik gets to the point I can go that route. It is medical – not vision.
Yeah, I know Illinois has had it’s share of corruption. And I agree about all politicians being liars. I guess I just try to figure out the less of two evils and go that way. Call me Pollyanna, but I would like to think Obama has our best interests at heart.
DS, ACA should not have happened at all until they address the underlying problem. Could have tweaked the COBRA LAW when he tweaked it to be Cobra Subsidy. Ignored the people with the means to pay the full boat and came up with a plan to give it away.
Wondering will you in obamas corner bash on him like you do on Bush when it becomes necessary to send troops into Libya?
And no, I will not like anythng he does because he is an Illinois Poltitican. illinois Politicians can not be trusted. They are liars. They are all for themselves. Thats why they built Club Fed in Brooks Wisconsin – Retirement home for ill Politicians. Over Crowded now. Had to send Blago to Colo & Ryan to Indiana.
Libby, I got a laugh out of your reply that “Call me Pollyanna but you believed that Obama has our best interests at heart”. Wow, that takes Pollyanna to a new level. This so called Affordable Care Act is anything but affordable and it is slated to put a big dent in every American’s pocketbook with all the new taxes for middle class Americans and we will have more and more regulations and control from bureaucrats. All of this trouble for keeping a young failure to launch person on their parents policy and to cover all preX’s and tax us if we don’t want it. Forgive me, but I don’t think this is in the best interest of the majority of Americans. That is why it will be repealed and replaced. Romney will not overturn the 26 year olds and will keep the PreX’s so you shouldn’t be too worried about it. Maybe it will shrink down to 200 pages and not have mandates and taxes laced in it.
Glad I could brighten your day, Agent. :-)
The SCOTUS has ruled that the ‘fee’ is a tax and the IRS will use all means at its disposal to collect taxes due. For the head of the IRS to say otherwise is a lie.
The more difficult issue at hand is the ‘mandate’ part of the tax. For those not in a ‘cafeteria’ style plan, the cost of health insurance has been an expense that is not tax deductible. Now that the SCOTUS has said the mandate is a tax, the cost must be treated as any other tax paid out of income; costing the US Treasury revenue.
So far, I have not seen any estimate on the lost revenue amount, has anybody else?
Okay, so then who is going to enforce this (if not the IRS)? Secret Service?
The main reason they came up with this law in the first place was to collect more money from the hard working American worker. If you do your taxes, you better believe they will take the dollars they say is owed to them – like it or not – we are no longer “home of the free”
No, you’re confused. Now THAT would be Mitt RobMe’s plan.Tax breaks for the upper income and a $2,000 tax increase for the middle class.
Actually Brokie, your mind is “Brokie”. There are 7 new taxes built into Obamacare that will hit the middle class. It was done by your President, not Romney.
Collect or Spend????
Why comment if it is not posted?
Random says–“Okay, so then who is going to enforce this (if not the IRS)? Secret Service?”
This is like our immigration system. It is on the honor system. Ha Ha. I suppose they are expecting those without insurance to fess up and pay the fine when they file their taxes. Ha Ha. Just like the immigration system for the new dream act. Police officer or border patrol agent—-“You are a US citizen correct?” illegsl alien—- Si senor, no habla english. Border Patrol agent– “well I guess I can’t arrest you and send you back to Mexico, so I will let you go”.
What a joke. The IRS is letting illegal aliens walk off with $4.5 billion in tax fraud and they think they can control this. What a joke- blah ha ha
I will say about Libby, every single friend of mine that is a Packer Fan ahs flooded my FB & Email with slogans like “Cutler Sucks”. My only response to them is that we will never know how good or bad Cutler is until we can have him standing up. We just can not say good or bad until he gets protection.
Not a word of Gloating out of Libby.
I’m originally from Denver, so Cutter is on my s*&t list…
There is no quarterback in the NFL that will be successful if he doesn’t have a line that will give him a decent amount of time to pass. The receivers also have to get open. Also, if you don’t have an offense that can move the ball, eventually the defense will get tired and get scored on. I have seen the same thing with Dallas for years. They can’t run three plays without a false start or holding call and wonder why they can’t score. Romo has gotten killed numerous times on blitzes. The better teams do have good lines and protect the quarterback and have 8 to 10 plays per drive and come away with either a field goal or touchdown. They are the ones in the playoffs.
True on that point.
Whats the Dallas Media saying about the 3rd wide out – I think the name is Olgeslby or something like that.
Actually, his name is Ogletree. He is a decent 3rd receiver who found himself open when the Giants were busy double covering the two main receivers. They were also trying to cover him with a back up since their main defensive back was hurt. It was no contest and Ogletree turned the poor guy around several times. Other teams will not make the same mistake and Ogletree will get more attention. The problem is that you can’t double cover everyone. The way to beat Dallas is to put immediate pressure on Romo and don’t give him the time to find receivers or he will burn you.
Thanks. That means if Austin & Bryant are having a bad day, this kids up for a big one.
Yes, and Ogletree is not a rookie and is a good route runner. Bryant is a bit of a head case that has a penchant for getting into trouble. The team keeps an entourage around him to keep him from clubbing, drinking etc and drives him to and from practice etc. I think he has the mentality of a 10 year old. He is another one that will be broke within 5 years after he retires. He is a great athlete with super hands, but it will be wasted, trust me.
A TAX is a TAX. If there is a place for it on the tax form, which there will be, they will COLLECT it and the collection will be ENFORCED. Their assertion that they will not collect or enforce collection is absurd.
I see. You dont like the Packers. You hate Cutler. Never liked the Tebow idiot. Hats off to Elway kicking him to the curb as well as the Coach that Pissed off Jay.
Yeah. Not a Tebow fan. Praise God.
Libby–Praise God? Really? I thought liberals didn’t believe in God.
Surprise, surprise. And we love our country too. How ’bout that?
Elway made a huge gamble to sign Manning. He better hope Manning is given protection because he can’t stand a pounding. Most of the plays will be quick, short passes so he doesn’t get hit. They may do allright if Manning stays healthy and they play good defense all year. Tebow is a great athlete and a real bruiser, but he will not play much for NY unless the incumbent Sanchez has trouble or gets hurt.
I like the gamble. Watched that whole game against Pitts. Good game all the way around. Manning on the bench for over an hour at the half. Comes in and 36 seconds later TD, back on the bench. Major upgrade to the QB poistion up there.
Denver too flat. Nothing there but an out door mall. Colorado Springs much nicer town. More to see.
Libby, I am a little confused. Your income is down over the past few years. You had to move to make less money. But yet, you support OBama?
My income is more then it was in 12/08. My expenses have sky rocketed. In particular, my Health Insurance and the rest of my medical expenses. Pretty much coincided with his Cobra Give A Way plan – the spike in health expense. My group reps have told me he forced the carriers to eat $0.75 on the dollar for these folks that took advantage of it. So, I dont “blame” Obama Care for the spike that has happened. I do believe the next round of spikes as well as the inevitible spike in taxxes to support this expense is going to be anything but affordable.
Not trying to pick a Monday mornng fight or anything. I do respect your right to your opinion. I am just trying to understand something that on the surface seems to have hurt you.
I’m going to get alot of flack for this, but I don’t blame Obama for what has happened in my life. He walked into a mess and is doing his best to turn things around, in my opinion. I think overall, Obamacare is a good thing. I looked at the taxes in it and not many of them are going to affect the middle class. In theory, if more people are insured pricing should go down. And if not down, because of the pre-existing etc., then there should not be huge spikes. I feel it is to soon to know the ramifications of Obamacare and it can be revised and refined as needed. But our country needed this. In fact, this may be what you and your family need to be able to purchase affordable coverage that will cover your pre-existing problems. I have my fingers crossed.
I dont have faith in the theory. When IL went to mandatory Auto Insurance, the theory was the same and did not play out. My belief that has been developed over the course of my almost 50 years on this earth – watching Govt Intrusion in Private Business time and time again just to have it bite us all in the a@# over the long haul has givein me this nagging feling in the back of my head that tells me thay are BSing all of us. My faith in IL policitians turns that nagging feeling into a head ach. Throw in his involvement with Rezco (convicted felon) and its just worse. Part of my shaken faith comes from him & Rahm not having to testify in Blagos trial. Cant lose this feeling that he was indeed hiding something. It leads me to this nagging question – Did Blago fall on the sword for him? Could he have proved Blago to be innocent? Is there an innocent man sitting jail? Maybe I’m just fed up. Should sell out and move to my lake. Buy that little camp ground for something to do.
I think that sounds like an excellent idea! If you can do it, you should!
Just dont know if I want to live in no where ville WI. Over half an hour from everywhere.
I’m being told I’ll be taxxed at 30% on the sale price of my agency. Extends my working life so I can get to the point I need to be at until I can buy my time to Social Security i fits even around anymore.
I’m way ready for retirement. This business has been great for me, but I’m tired. Will have to stick it out for a few more years, though. Living in the middle of nowhereville sounds heavenly to me…
I emphathize with you FFA. You are living in the moste corrupt city in the most corrupt state in the Union. Their answer to their financial problems is to raise taxes again on small business. Is it any wonder that businesses are moving out of the state, just like California? Business does not like that kind of environment and are moving to friendlier states mostly in the south.
My state started with chasing doctors out. Moved on to Manufacturing and is now moving on the service industry. I see it in the COmp Rates state to state. ILL is the worst in the three states I do business in. Hopefully, WI business is going to grow to warrent the move out of state. Then, I can buy my little camp ground that has been for sale for years, operate out of there and then sell off the business piece by piece so I have something to do in the lonley, very lonley winters. Get stuck watching Packers every Sunday — UGGH!
You are right to not have faith in the theory FFA. The liberal plan is for the tax payers to subsidize the non taxpayers and provide them with insurance. That is why Obamacare was ruled a “tax” instead of a fine. We are supposed to pay for these people with our taxes. I certainly don’t think that picking up all the PreX’s out there for coverage will reduce rates even with more people insured, do you? Many of these currently uninsured will wait until they need coverage before getting it since they can’t be turned down. By the way, Texas has had mandatory Auto Insurance for several years now, and about half of all claims we see involve Uninsured Motorists. Yes, they have to pay a fine for not carrying it if they are caught, but a lot of them get coverage and let it drop the next month after renewing their license or registering their vehicle. Our problems are magnified by our large Hispanic population, many of whom are illegal. They have no clue that they have to have insurance if they drive on our streets and highways. They tend to have the worst wrecks imaginable. Just last month, we had a case where a dozen were traveling in a mid sized SUV, a tire blew out and 5 were killed when it flipped, mostly children not buckled in. The DPS couldn’t get a statement from the adult driver because of “language” difficulties.
But, Agent, the “tax” is imposed on those who do not choose to obtain coverage. There is no tax if you have coverage.
Libby, you have way more faith in the system then I do. Every time through the course of my life – Govt Intrusion in Private Business has always increased cost always increased taxxes. The honest Hard Working Legal Citizens of these Unites States end up flipping the bill every time.
Mortgage Crises – Billy BOy loosens the reins – No Doc Loans – Interest Only Loans and it blew up in everyones faces. The mortgage COmpanies that made these bad loans should have been left to fail -not bail out. They made tha bad loans. Now I pay??? Not to mention , as a result, I am upside down. Thought I could rely on equity on my house to help through retirement. Now that piece of the puzzle is gone. Who is going to subsidize me?
Your right on one point Libby – I am tired.
I do have more faith, but I could just as easily be proved wrong. I hope not. I just keep plugging along and putting one foot in front of the other. It’s all I know to do. And it helps keep me sane in an insane world.
I have a Amish manufacturing plant insured. 65 Employees. Reject health coverage on religous grounds. They do provide for their own. This dont allow fro Seperation of Church and State. What are they going to do?
Not sure. It does provide for exemption for religious institutions, but not religious manufacturing plants. We may find a new business, helping people get around Obamacare. I bet there are people out there studying it right now so they can do just that.
Do they pay state &/or federal taxes??
I am sure they do. They have to show the tax forms on thier audit.
Well, I guess they will be taxed for not providing health care to their employees. Not fair, but life isn’t.
No. Its not fair. They take care of their own. I take care of my own +++.
Through the back door – Seperation of Church and State getting taken away. Another right afforded – good by!
Too soon to tell. There may be a way for them to get out of it. Lots of legislation to go through… As Agent says, it’s a 2700 page monstrosity.
Its a common theme for those opposed – too much too fast. Maybe it will be good. Even a blind squirl finds a nut.
I do know this from my recent review with them, that Amish Community will not be voting for him. The two elders that sat in the review made that pretty clear. Guessing they want to preserve the Seperation of Church & State.
Since they don’t recognize “the English” or our government, I didn’t think they voted. Maybe those in business with the English are a little more interested. I live near Lancaster, which has a very large Amish population. I’ll have to ask around about their voting habits.
Not sure if they actually do vote or not. I know very little about them except for what they told me. They made it clear they do not like this guy.
I can tell you they pay their bills on time every time all the time.
I did some research and the Amish are exempt from paying taxes except for sales tax and property tax. According the article in this link, they will most likely be exempt from the requirements for healthcare, too.
http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/01/amish-exempt-from-obamacare/
FFA, The Catholic Church found out real quick that Obamacare requires them to provide contraception on their plans and do abortions in their hospitals. Perhaps that is why 22 Catholic orgainizations have sued over these mandates. I would have to assume the government will force the Amish to comply with their wonderful law. This government is out of control and is dictatorial with their boondoggle of a bill.
Not according to the Lonely Conservative, Agent. See the link above.
Boy oh Boy Libby, that just opens up another can of worms. If its good for the Amish, it must be good for Moose Members / Elk Club / Kof C, VFW ect.. too.
Pissing off the Catholics too. You cant actually believe Medical Birth Controll is free. Only free birth controll is for the ladies to keep their legs crossed and the men to keep the mouse in the house.
If they have a religious objection to insurance. According to the article “The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a “religious conscience” exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objections.” This would include the Amish and Mennonites, etc.
The Lonely Conservative then goes on and adds “The report goes on to note that Senator Chuck Schumer said exempting certain religious groups is a “no brainer.” I’m Catholic. Can Senator Schumer guarantee that I will be exempt if abortions are funded? Or are only certain religious groups granted exceptions?”
I think looking at the definition of religious exemption, the answer would be no. Except I think Catholic Church itself is exempt as a religious institution.
Agent:
I see people missing a point with Obamacare. Obamacare is for the already insured, and then forces everyone else to get insurance. It was projected to increase the cost of health insurance, while there was a republican plan which was CBO projected to lower costs by 9%.
So essentially we have a plan which allows people to stay on a plan and covers pre existing conditions as long as you are insured. It is paid for by increasing premiums.
I don’t see any way of that being considered a good plan. My question of course is: Where is the benefit? None of the new taxes are going to providing insurance for the un-insured, proftis are limited and thus the insurance company cannot create as much capital for claims, insurance costs go up, U.S. debt becomes involved in private insurance thus intermingling the two, etc etc.
Revising insurance in a way which does not involve government debt would have been a better idea. Revising insurance in a way that covered pre-existing conditions without taxes was already part of the republican plan, which as part of their plan would have required insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and young adults to an older age as well. People would have had the choice to get insured, and exchanges would have been set up, the same ones that government officials get to choose from. The cost for the average american would have gone down.
Is there any way anyone can list that this plan does better than the CBO projected plan?
Don’t use the argument that the uninsured would be insured which would lower the cost for all of us. The CBO disagrees. Premiums are not expected to go down in the democrat plan, only the republican which did not include a mandate. So the CBO proves that one wrong.
This democrat plan does nothing that we could not have done by passing the republican plan. If so I challenge someone to list it.
Your right Bob – define Affordable. What is an Ill Politicians idea of Affordable? 10% More? 50% More?
We know he took full advantage of the Property Tax system here in IL. He purchased two pieces of property next door to each other. One vacant one with his house. He paid the home value on the vacant property and the vacanty value of the property with his home on it. He set the market value of him home at the vacant property price done to dodge his fair share of property tax. Becomes part of the problem, not the solution. All done through Rezco – a convicted felon wrapped up with Blago.
At least that is my understanding of what transpired.
After all FFA, this President famously said that after a point, successful people have made enough and anything more than that should be taxed more heavily. Fits right in with his “Spreading the Wealth Around” scheme he told Joe the Plumber. They like to criticize better off Conservatives they need to pay more of their fair share and wealthy Democrats like Lurch Kerry cannot even bring himself to pay his yacht taxes in Massachusetts and moved the yacht to Rhode Island. None of them will directly answer of how much tax the wealthy should pay, but I think it may fall somewhere in the 70-75% range like France is doing with their wealthy. I wonder when their economy will implode like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland already have.
Bob, Our exalted leaders who have been in office since 09 did not want to hear any Republican solutions to Healthcare. They had their own vision which was to tax and control the system. Some good ideas were put forth like Tort Reform, selling coverage across state lines etc. Romney said he was amenable to keeping young people on coverage until 26 and to use the exchanges to offer coverage to PreX people. That is pretty much the same thing as Pools that are offered in many states. Instead, we have a one size fits all monolithic monster with a bureaucracy that can’t be believed. We don’t need all this mess that will end up costing $2.6Trillion by most estimates. Liberals cannot believe we are concerned. That shows how ignorant they are about the affordability issue.
Here is a link to an article that shows CBO numbers can be taken out of context:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/conservatives-distort-cbo-data-to-claim-obamacare-costs-have-exploded.php
If you only include the costs and not the savings, there is no net effect of the transaction. This is misleading.
Everything can be taken out of Context.
Yes, but Bob loves to recite numbers and statistics. So I thought I’d ask him specifically about his comment that the Republican plan would cost less than the Democratic plan considering the CBO numbers don’t include the savings of the plan, only the costs.
I dont even know what CBO stands for. Another worthless layer of Govt?
Don’t let Agent or Bob hear you say that! Blasphemy! It’s the Congressional Budget Office. Official number crunchers.
Number Crunchers. hmmm. So, I was right – another worthless layer of Govt.
I dont need an accountant to tell me what going to happen. History is going to repeat itself. Govt estimates are going to be off. Taxxes are going to go up. I am going to end up being one of them people with my hand out.
Can they tell us when the Cinease are going to forclose on OBamas Loan? What is the Chinease Tax Rate?
Man o man – your blowing my mind right out of my head.
You said it before, I’ll say it again – I am tired. Big Govt stepping on Little ole me.
Don’t want to blow your mind. I’ll stop. But the loan is not Obama’s. It’s all of ours. And with our luck, there won’t be anything left by the time we have our hands out…
Libby:
I’m not referring to the cost to the government. My entire post was stating the cost to the government shouldn’t even be considered.
What is the benefit outside of the republican plan which would have brought down premiums for everyone insured, would have insured people to 26 on their plan (like Obama’s) and would have covered pre-existing conditions?
The only answer is that it would have covered more people? How would it cover more people? By requiring people to purchase coverage. Is requiring people to buy coverage a benefit? No. Are cost savings a benefit? Yes. Is there a benefit to Obama’s plan not included in the Republican plan, which would not have harmed the deficit as much as Obama’s? The answer is no.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/feb/25/charles-boustany/boustany-says-gop-health-plan-would-lower-premiums/
I don’t like the left slant of politifact, but at least it proves a point. CBO said 10 percent, politifact disagrees but they are politifact.
Having people insured is not in itself a benefit if it doesn’t bring down costs. This also suggests that Obama’s part of the plan limiting the amount investments health companies can do per dollar actually harmed the amount of premiums coming down as I stated before.
Not every benefit has to be tied to lowering costs. All Americans having access to quality healthcare is a benefit to society, is it not? I think it is.
Is there a similar article to the one you posted that states definitively that Obamacare will increase premiums? Or is that an assumption?
Libby:
When everyone who is now forced to pay for that insurance and the insurance cost did not come down 10% I would say that is not a benefit. They didn’t get it for free. Being forced to buy something is not in itself a benefit.
I base it off of many aspects, but you might enjoy the politifact comment here.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2012/09/12/262776.htm/?comments#comment-242668
Note the left spin, they openly admit it will provide a 10% increse in costs, but that they get better packages of insurance. But when you read the republican plan, they actually offer the exact same coverage in different ways (pre existing conditions, on the policy through 26, etc). The democrat plan would increase 10%, the republican plan would decrease 10%. Also, the republican plan would allow choice to enter into the equation.
There is a 20% difference in premiums between the republican and democrat plan in total. When the politifact site mentions the improved coverage, they are mentioning in comparison to not passing any plan. They are not comparing it to the republican.
Ugh…The wrong link posted. The link is:
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jul/06/rick-scott/scott-says-health-insurance-premiums-increase/
Get satellite and watch Da Bears!
Just so some Hunter can get me with a stray bullet during hunting season? People get more then just crazy up there during Packer Season which spans part of hunting season.
I hear there are 600,000 registered hunters in Wisconsin. Good luck Federal Government getting the guns out of their hands.
Contrary to popular opinion, liberals don’t want to take away hunter’s weapons as long as they aren’t sub-machine guns and semi-automatic weapons. And a little more control on hand guns wouldn’t hurt either.
Contrary to your opinion, the leaders of the current administration do want to take the guns away from everyone. They think every time there is a shooting somewhere, that is evidence they need to take the guns away. It is always some nut that does the deed, but they are quick to try to pin it on the Tea Party and then have to back off when it isn’t. Chicago has very strict gun laws, particularly hand guns and they have more murders than anywhere in the nation. Thugs will always get guns. If guns are confiscated by government, there will be more murders because the thugs have nothing to fear. I like what Alpharetta, Ga did. They require the head of household to have a gun unless they have an impairment. Alpharetta is the safest city in the country for their size population as a result.
I haven’t heard of anyone promoting the confiscation of guns. I have heard of gun control and I am for it. You can buy these weapons at gun shows without hardly any paperwork. England has a ban on guns, even their police do not carry them, and they have a very low murder rate. Sure criminals will get their hands on guns. There should be severe punishment for it. But I don’t see why the average citizen needs a sub-machine gun or a semi-automatic weapon. You don’t hunt deer with them. You hunt people.
They close school for the first week of hunting season.
From what I have seen of the locals up there, you number is probably low. Bow season opened up recently up there too. Both aspect are very well represented.
FFA, CBO stands for the Congressional Budget Office which is charged with analyzing and scoring legislation that Congress passes. They are pretty much worthless just like Congress since everytime they score Obamacare, it doubles in cost. I believe the first scoring was in the neighborhood of $450 billion over 10 years. The latest scoring has it in the $2.6 Trillion over 10 years. We don’t have genius in charge of estimating costs. I believe we have serious inflation here and now the Fed is planning to print billions more which will cause inflation and devaluing the dollar. Have you noticed the gas pump or groceries lately? The cost is not going down. Goodby Middle Class, hello Poverty Class.
Shame on you, Agent. As an economist, you should know why the numbers have changed. Read the article, for Pete’s sake.
You know, I got so much flack for not posting links. But when I do, nobody bothers to look at them. WTF??
Yes I have. In nowhere ville WI last week end $3.88. 171 miles down the interstate, $4.25. Republican state WI – Democrtaic State IL. Makes my business model less profitable.
Dont do the grocery shopping.
I support 7 people full time and one part time. Why? Because my grown children can not find full time work. Neither can the Father of three gr children and the mother of 1. So it falls on my shoulders. Support my daughter, her three kids, my son and his daughter 4 days a week. Meanwhile my daughter supports OBama cause that jack ass makes it too easy for her to sit on her dead ass. My son pickes up odd this and thats to supplement his 15 hr a week job. So he usually finds about 20 hrs on average of that. But my daughter is so used to sticking her hand out – its a way of life for her now. Hope he pays off the loans with that cash he is printing. How about spitting Interest Expense of the Countries expense?
No sales tax on food items in WI. Property Tax factor much less then here in IL.
No wonder you’re in WI every weekend! I could never live with my parents. They’d drive me nuts! So is it they can not or do not find full time work? Maybe tough love is in order for them. Give them a deadline and then they’re out. But both you and your wife would have to stick to it.
Yep. Had the crowd last week end +2 up there. Next week end, just the two of us. And if wife dont want to go, just me.
Daughter has given up finding work. The father is also an unemployed dead beat. Why bother when she & he just sticks her hand out. I paid the full boat on school for the two kids. My son does what ever pays him a buck. Currently helping to construct a Haunted House in addition to his part time job. He gave up his car and rides his bike rain or shine. He keeps pluging away. Tough love? Put the grand kids out in the streets??? Wife would never go for that. Meanwhile, when I dont go north, I am working till 06:00 on Saturdays. Not only has my take home plumeted, so has my quality of life. I really wanted to go see the BOSS at Wrigley a few weeks back, but had to cover the load for the kids.
Wonder why I want change at the top? Cuz it sucks at the bottom. I was content being in the middle.
BTW, Sunday in WI Dells as a known Bear fan – brutal. Would not go into a bar where I am known. I love my Bears. I do admire the Packers for the success. But, I luve my Bears.
Maybe you’d better rethink the retirement at the lake plan…
I’m ok by the lake. I am surrounded by Bear Fans. Even the ones that live there are Bear fans. Soon as I leave my comfort zone, head to the dells otr the little population 300 town around me I cant wear my bears shirts nor my cubs shirts.
BTW, my wife is forcing me into thinks along them lines. “I dont want to be a local up there”. I may be a different story if I was directly on the lake, but cant afford the minn $500K for a small 900 sq ft shack. So, Im in the mobil home park about 1/8th of a mile away and have lake rights through the assn.
I was envisioning a log cabin with sweeping views of the lake. I think I might be with your wife on this one!
Funny, I was looking at the log cabin on the lake. 100 foot beach Nice pier system. Asking over $500K. Last house that sold with original asking price over $500 was much bigger, three car attached garage, came with a 28ft Pontoon Boat, Pier system sold for $375,000 fully furnished. This one is smaller – only three BR & 2 baths. Small built in 2 car garage. Nice deck. I am on the lake the two owners of two different water parks in the dells live on. Oh, so much $$ up there. Surprised that the guy that owns the one dont have a water slide into the Lake. Now, the Kraft house is up for sale for over $1M. NO WAY!
FFA, What is going on with that liberal county judge trying to take down Scott Walker’s victory over the unions? How can one judge who is not even a federal judge overturn the will of the people up there? This judge should be impeached and removed. I wonder how much the unions paid him to make this ruling.
Not familiar with what your taking about. When I am there, we have NO TV, NO INTERNET (unless I knock on the neighbors door and ask her to open the network up) and very poor cell service. Isolation!!! Bright Stars. Alone time with the wife! Maybe its not WI that I love so much as the P&Q.
I am sure Bill (one of my reps) will be in soon and I’ll get the Milwaukee perspective. He was more then happy to keep me informed during the recall. Maybe its because he wants to kick Badger Care (WI version of OBama Care) to the curb.
FFA, the judge was a Dane County Circuit Judge by the name of Juan Colas who made this ruling. He said it violated the State and US Constitution. Looks like Wisconsin has its share of goofy judges to go along with all the other malcontents. Of course there is an appeal going on to keep the law going until it is resolved by a higher court. I don’t know why Wisconsin can’t just settle down and let Walker do his job. He is bringing the state back and creating jobs there.
Best Guess – one of the Grey Lord judges got out of Club Fed and bought his career back????
What County?
I cant imagine what people are bitching about. Their budget is balanced.
Dane County is Madison – right outside the Cap Building. Dont much make for friendly neighbors. One of my lake pals is a Madison Teacher. He was upset about having to kick in $100 @ month on his Health Insurance. He said that to the wrong person after I had a few coctails.Not sure we are pals anymore.
Health Insurance for $100 @ month and he was complaining. Boo fn hoo! I pay more in a month then he pays in a year.
Some people just dont know how good they have it. He owns one of the $500K houses on the lake. Showed up with a brand new 28ft Pontoon this summer Wah Wah Wah – I have to pay $1200 @ year for my health insurance. And now this judge wants to waste more tax payer money & time. I am going to have to talk to my rep.
I’m glad you let this “entitled” teacher have it for his complaint about having to kick in $100 month for his health insurance. Most of us in the private sector have to pay 10 times that much to cover our families. They and the Chicago teachers are an embarassment to the country. They make much more than the typical private sector employee, get three months paid vacation during the summer and then bitch if they have to contribute to their benefit package. Walker did good work getting this rolled back and I hope this sorry judge up there gets reversed on his union favored opinion. He should be impeached.
Well, news just in. Last week two thugs in Detroit try to rob a guy getting gas. They approached him after he paid for his gas and was getting in his car. They grabbed him threw him across the hood of his car. He slid off the front, pulled a Glock 9mm and shot one of the thugs. The other guy hot footed the scene. The first thug, last I knew was in surgery and critical condition. So what is wrong with someone owning a handgun if they can properly train on how to use it, obtain a permit and qualify by practicng at a range? I guess the libs also missed the retired marine in Florida stop an in process robbery with a 38 at a convenience store or they must have missed the robbery at McDonalds, in Fla where the robbers forced the three customers into the bathroom where a retired serviceman pulled a handgun and shot one robber and went after the other?
I have no problem with someone owning “a” handgun with proper training and a permit. And I know some people are gun collectors and like to buy up all kinds of weapons. I don’t see the fascination with it, but that’s OK as long as they are locked and stored securely. For every one of those stories you just cited, I could cite 2 or 3 where some innocent party or child was shot because handguns were being mishandled or not stored properly.
Thirty million registered gun owners with training did not kill anyone last month. How many unregistered thugs in Chicago killed innocent people in the past couple of months? The answer is that more were murdered in Chicago than we lost in Afghanistan. The gangs are rampant there. If you don’t believe me, ask FFA and he will fill you in on the latest since he lives there.
Sounds like your half Democrat and half Republican. Believing in God and Gun controll. Then supporting Obama care.
If not for Obama care, which way would you go?
I would still go Republican myself. I am worse off then I was 4 years ago. Its time for a change in my book.
FFA, This country will not be restored to greatness until we have a regime change. They are trying to overwhelm this country with all the bad stuff they can think of. It is way past time for a change and going in a totally new direction. We aren’t going to get it from the current administration since they are bent on reducing the country to a banana republic.
So Democrats don’t believe in God??? That’s news to me. I was brought up Republican (military) and thought I was until my late 20’s when I realized there is alot of gray area in the world and not everything is black and white. I was registered independent for many years until registering Democrat about 4 years ago. So I have been both, but identify with the ideals presented by the Democrats more. Call me a hybrid.
Read Chicagos daily news. Story about an innocent person being killed in the cross fire every day. Why save the thug anyways? He dont have health insurance. History is bound to repeat itself. I dont have any sympathy for people like the thug.
A Texas State Trooper pulls over an 80 yr old lady and notices a conceal and carry permit. Cops asks “Do you have a Loaded Fire Arm?” She says “Yes, I have a 22 pistol in my purse.” The cop then asks “anything else?” She says “Yes, a 38 in the glove box.” The cop asks again and she says “Yes a 357 under my seat.” The cop then asks “What are you afraid of?” She respons “Nothing.”
FFA, I insure some of these grannies down here in Texas. They will blow a thug away in a heart beat if they feel threatened. There was another story a few years ago about a young teenage girl in Montana who killed one illegal alien and wounded another who were there to try to rape and kill her. Fortunately, her father had trained her well and she got them with a shot gun. Good for her.
Every day, there is an article in the paper about an innocent being shot. Rahm is over his head on that front. No help coming either. No NAtional Guard, no help from the Satte Police Force. None that I saw. When I went to NYC, I watched the Nat Guardsmen walking around the Sub Way. Did not make me feel safe, made me feel threatened.
Schools till out in Chicago. No help from anywhere coming. Going to Court to force an Injunction. No Help.
The guy is over his head.
BTW, There was a Dancing Grannies exibition in the Parade in the WI Dells on Sunday. YIKES!!!! Although, if I was 80?????
Some dancing grannies look better than others. I don’t think I would turn Sophia Loren down if she asked nice. She is still dynamite along with Raquel Welch. They both have plenty of money to maintain their looks. Unfortunately, there is not much one could do about Hilary. She is a hag personified. All that money and her hair is stringy and too long for a woman her age. After she leaves office in a few months, she may take an extended vacation and go to Switzerland for a serious make over.
Well agent, If I am going to get myself in trouble with my wife, I’ll stick with the 25 – 30 year olds. HAnging around the Dells on Sunday, pleanty of trouble for me. May have to send my honey off to the Chipendales Review up in Lake Geneva.
Common theme for me – going to WI. They say its Ill largest State Park. Judging by the traffic on the intersste at 06:00pm, may not be too far off the mark.
I understand the “hot flashes” girls really like those Chip N Dale guys and stuff the money down the thongs if they get the chance. I must be really old since I cannot even have a conversation with a 25-30 year old airhead. Give me a good looking mature lady who is well kept any day. I have to laugh at the Cialis commercials that show 30 something guys who need help with their problem. They have some hot women so I don’t know what the problem is.
Damnedest things is my wife struck up the conversation with the young gal. I was just standing there watching the parade and got myself in trouble over it. Maybe it was when the gal bent over to pick up her cute little doggie and I noticed she didnt have a bra on… It was my wife that said “Look at the cute little dog” as she was bending over. So I did and got an eyefull. I could have yelled at my wife too. She saw the same thing I did.
You guys are awful! Why don’t we hear anyone talking about what a freak Ryan looks like or Romney is a robot?
I dont notice guys. I have no opinion on the physical attractivness of any guy.
If you as a woman want to voice your opinion, its a free country. When it boils down to it, oink!
Oink is right! You guys are all alike. But viva la difference, I guess! Can’t live with ’em. Can’t shoot ’em…
Cant tell me you dont notice “cute” guys too. Seeing something easy on the eyes and admiring the beauty just makes you human.
Me personally, I have never cheated on my wife or any girl friend I have ever had. I may look, but I dont touch. So, I only get one oink!
One oink for you, two for Agent! But that’s OK. I’m old enough to know how you boys are and I’ve come to accept it. And yes, I will notice a cute guy. But I will rarely comment on it – I just enjoy it!
Ryan looks like a choir boy compared to Hairplug Gaffe a minute Joe. I can’t wait for their debate. They many have to carry Joe out on a stretcher after it. It will be interesting to see how he tries to spin out of the disastrous policies his administration has been doing for 4 years. As far as Romney goes, his personality is Presidential, unlike the radical in chief. We will see who looks more Presidential when the smoke clears.
He may LOOK presidential, but he is not presidential material, sir. He left MA in a mess. And Ryan will not do well in debates using words like “wonky” to describe his budget numbers. When pushed on the numbers, he responded that he hadn’t run all the numbers yet. I heard a comic say that was like saying they wrote a book with no words in it. I thought that was hilarious.
He is not from IL. He is from Wi, one of the few states with a balanced budget. The Gov that balanced the budget, they tried a recall but failed. I know he did not have much if anything to do with the state level, but, in my mind, even if he is a Packer Fan, makes him the best man for the job even in front of Romney. He has a solid resource to fall back on for advice in Scott Walker.
Well, whereever he’s from, he’s a big, fat hipocrit and liar. Check this out:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz251rvLkSe
And he can’t explain his budget numbers other than to say they’re wonky. And he wants to privatize the same system, social security, that he certainly enjoyed collecting and that sent him through college. He’s certainly not for me! Not to mention his crazy, bug eyes. I can’t look at that for 4 years. No, sir!
Libby, he may be, but he is not from IL. No one will ever convince me there is not a better option then an IL Politician. All I know about you is your not a Cutler Fan and from Denver. You are a better option even though we disagree on o Bama Care. At the very least, you anknowledged Tort Reform is needed.
Packers won that night.
I know. I’m getting ready for my inaugural address. Don’t worry, I’ll let you have a couple of minutes, too.
I’ll just keep my mouth shut.
Kudos to your wife. She trained you well!
Or maybe I have learned the hard way. Keep my mouth shut and go about my biz.
Yes, dear.
Yep! (Oink)
Actually Libby, Duvall Patrick has made a bigger mess in Taxachusetts than Romney ever thought of doing. I don’t know how Romney ever got elected in the state of Kennedy as liberal as they are. He actually rescued the state and balanced the budget and many in that state thanked him for straightening it out and then they went right back to what they were doing and are in the same dire straights. As far as Ryan goes, whatever he has to say will make a lot more sense than Biden who said the Republicans would put blacks back into chains. That is only one of his goofy sayings. There are dozens to choose from. He even asked a paraplegic to stand up and take a bow at one of his stops. The guy was sitting right in front of him. To think this guy is a heartbeat away from the Presidency makes me shudder.
Now you know how I felt about Sarah Palin…
Libby:
Again with the posting of opinion pieces. Your opinion piece on Paul Ryan, while from Fox News, is definitely not written by a conservative.
http://www.upi.com/blog/2012/08/30/15-people-shocked-by-Foxs-Paul-Ryan-factcheck/7071346338318/
Now on to her untrue comments: Paul Ryan’s plan which would have cut medicare costs by a similar amount to Obama’s plan was at no point similar to Obama’s plan. Let us not forget that the morning after Paul Ryan received the nomiation an email went out claiming Paul Ryan was ending medicare. Paul Ryan was merely pointing out that Obama was cutting reimbursement costs, which could lower the quality of care. Which he did. That was by no means strengthening medicare. When Obama cuts payments we all assume that quality will remain the same, when Ryan has a plan that will cut costs and increase care though, you think it will destroy everything right? Paul Ryan defended against an attack.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/lie-year-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/
The credit rating the woman mentioned stated another lie or mistruth, that the credit rating was decreased due to Republicans making it evident the debt limit would not increase. Come now Libby, you honestly believe if you had a credit card, your rating would go down for not agreeing to get more in debt? The reason was revenues are not expected to change, entitlements are expected to grow and there was no solution.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-06/u-s-credit-rating-cut-by-s-p-for-first-time-on-deficit-reduction-accord.html
Romney is not increasing taxes on the middle class. He eliminates taxes on the middle class for capital gains taxes to name one tax cut. Usually online when people say he’s raising taxes they are referring to the temporary payroll tax cut, which Obama has every intention of being Temporary himself. Romney removing that is not a middle class tax increase.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/08/23/dont-believe-obamas-ads-romney-is-a-middle-class-tax-cutter/
Regarding the social security going to private, check out the road map to prosperity. It is very clear that his plan would result in larger economic growth as well as would not give less to people for social security, it would basically just remove it as a deficit. It also has no effect on anyone older than 55.
All and all I would peg the woman you referenced as a far left commentator. She also said that he would “eviscarate” (way too strong a word) entitlements without listing how they would be “eviscarated”. When you make a comment like that it has to be specific. She basically took the approach of listing a few facts, then listing opinions, and expecting you to believe that all the pieces were a fact as a result. Take some courses in media. I have a media specialist as a hire here. I show here these articles all the time, and she breaks down the strategy.
1) I did not get that email on Ryan, but every ad I have heard says he plans to get rid of Medicare “as we know it”. That is a true statement.
2) While Obama’s plan cuts reimbursements to providers, Ryan’s plan will shrink the number of providers forcing some seniors to find another doctor. I would question the benefit of that.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-18/ryan-s-proposal-would-shrink-medicare-s-doctor-pool.html
3) Romney’s tax plan does increase taxes for some of the middle class, which by the way rarely is worried about capital gains tax.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/14/nation/la-na-romney-tax-plan-20120915
4) Most of my retirement is “privatized” and I’ve taken a bath in the last 4 years with no end in sight. Privatizing was feasible when the market was stable and social security had a surplus. Doesn’t look so hot now and even Ryan has backpedaled on it.
5) I don’t want to take a media course.
Libby, most all and I mean most all of the accidental shootings in Detroit ar from thugs and drug dealers who leave unregistered weapons laying around the house or a kid gets shot in a drive by shooting. Same in Chicago, Philly, New York etc. It is rare that a citizen with a registered weapon and a conceal carry permit has a gun go off let alone accidentally shooting someone. How about this; Let’s allow all the Democrats surrender their handguns, long rifles, shotguns etc and prohibit them from having a gun of any kind! How many of the Detroit or Chicago shootings will be prevented?
Besides that I find it interesting, almost humorous that this administration wants to get tough on gun control and at the same time this administration sends assault weapons to mexican drug dealers who use them to kill US border patrol agents. Even Eric (I am a dope) Holder don’t have anything to say. How about this, let’s allow all the libs to surrender any weapon they have and prohibit them from owning any going forward? How many of the shootings in Detroit and Chicago will be prevented? My bet none as all the dope dealers and crack heads who live there vote for Obama now.
Again, you miss my point. I didn’t say surrender all handguns, long rifles, or shotguns. I said semi-automatic and sub-machine guns. And I read about some innocent kid getting shot every day and it’s not because his dad is a thug. In IJ just a few weeks ago there was a story about a police officer accidentally shooting a woman in the foot at a party for God’s sake. Accidental shootings happen all the time. But regardless, I am not advocating getting rid of all weapons. Just those I mention above. Tell me, specifically, what is wrong with that?
Libby, Can you guarantee that the thugs and gangs won’t be able to get semi-automatic weapons and sub machine guns? They often out gun the police when there is a battle. We have a government that furnished these kinds of weapons to the drug cartels and then lied about it and are hiding the records at the White House under Executive Privilege. We are much safer when the citizens can protect themselves rather than disarming them.
Similar to Iran/Contra in the 80’s, huh? That kind of stuff has been going on forever. And no, I can’t guarantee the thugs won’t be able to get these weapons. But I don’t think anyone should have them and if they were illegal, they could be confiscated if discovered. I know, I’m Pollyanna… It’s just a pipe dream, but I wish for a day when these weapons were no longer on the street.
With what happened here in Chicago, it seems more and more obvious that our Job is not finished.
Getting too close to home and too close to being successfull.
Libby, you missed the point. I don’t know where you are from but around this part of the country accidental shootings are rare. Also, accidental shootings do not necessarily come from a semi auto handgun and never from an “assault rifle”. If there is an accidental shooting around this area it comes from a long rifle during deer season, at a public site by some bozo who has been drinking for three days and sitting in a deer stand shooting at whatever moves. It is not the guns they should outlaw. They should put the thugs in jail and keep them there and qualify someone who wants to buy a gun. What this administration wants to do is to make it very difficlut to own a gun or take the right to own a gun away from everyone.
I don’t disagree with you. The accidental shooting point and semi-automatic weapons point are 2 different issues. I know we can’t take away peoples guns. I just don’t think we should allow those types of weapons that are designed only for killing mass numbers of people on the street. Will it ever happen. No. I’m not stupid, just idealistic.
You will not “get them off the street” as you say because the thugs and people who would like to rob or kill you or store owners have them and will get them one way or the other. What this administration wants to do is to limit or take those weapons away from the responsible people who can own them and maintain them properly. I have no problem with licensing of certain types of weapons and qualifying those who want to own certain types of weapons because we do that now. We just don’t do a great job of administration but hey the feds can’t even run the post office and rob from social security so what would you expect?
Sargent, I insure a number of responsible people that have multiple guns. They are hunters and NRA members. They have gun safes in their homes and keep them there. We have almost 0 accidental shootings in our area. The shootings we do have are by thugs, gang wars between Blacks and Hispanics, drug deals gone bad, armed robberies etc. These are done with unregistered guns, semi-automatic etc. It is well known that the liberal progressives would like to disarm America. That would make their job easier to control the citizens. Everytime I have seen an effort to collect guns from citizens, the street crime escalates. We must never give up the right to bear arms.
Agent – Please! Stop! We do not want to “disarm Americans”. We want gun CONTROL. Not gun bans. There are many shootings that may have been prevented by better controls. We’re not talking about taking all your guns away, so relax. Try looking at the article in the link I posted. Why are conservatives so melodramatic and knee-jerk? Liberals are not foaming at the mouth radicals trying to take away your rights and give them to the government. No-one in their right mind would want that. So try to be a little less dramatic and use the common sense I know you have.
Libby, Apparently you don’t listen to your own leaders. Everytime there is a shooting by some lunatic, they try to blame the Tea Party for it and introduce new legislation to ban guns. It happened with the Giffords shooting and the Colorado shooter. When their theory falls apart, they don’t apologize for their mistake. My confirmation of their agenda was borne out at the DNC with one radical speaker after the other including an illegal alien. The party of Truman & Kennedy no longer exists and they may as well call themselves the Progressive Socialist Party because that is what it has become.
Blame the Tea Party? The same ranting, raving thugs in suits that engaged in spitting on democrat politicians, hurling insults and racial epitaths at democrats, and threatening violence if health care bill is passed? That Tea Party?
OK, Agent. I looked up your claim of almost 0 accidental shootings in your area and found this article written by a Houston gun defense attorney which says accidental shootings are in the top 10 causes of accidental deaths in the U.S. It is a problem that I don’t have a real solution for, but it does exist. You can’t poo-poo it:
Accidental Shootings
Overall, concealed weapons rights are fairly generous in our state. Unfortunately, the statutes themselves are extensive – and would require more room than currently available to explain with any detail. A recent event, though, in which a woman was accidentally shot in the buttocks at a Texas restaurant when a concealed weapon accidentally discharged, has led me to present a cursory discussion on the topic of accidental shootings.
Firearm discharges – or accidental shootings – fall in the top ten reasons for accidental deaths in this country. In fact, accidental firearm discharges more likely result in death than injury. Just as in other cases in which a person claims divine providence or that an event was not deliberate – a person is not excused from the incident by presenting this as an excuse. Perhaps the worst part of an accidental shooting death is not just the devestation for all involved – but the fact that it is usually quite preventable.
The person who causes the death of another through an accidental firearms discharge will most likely still be prosecuted and could also be sued in civil court for wrongful death. All of this because of what is often merely gunplay. Even though the public is not served by putting the person in jail and there is probably no punishment that the state could mete out worse than the anguish of knowing that you’ve accidentally shot someone – the courts regularly see these types of cases.
Practice gun safety – concealed or otherwise.
Once upon a time, a long time back, Walter PAeton accidentally shot a Bus Boy in his restaurant. Walter had an extensive Fire Arm collection. No real point to this other then accidents happen. I over look a major state highway and see accidents out my window more often then I care to. A few years back, I walked out of work to see my brother being carted away in an Ambulance with his car wrecked.
I know they do, but Sarge & Agent seem to think accidental shootings are a rarity and they’re not.
This doesn’t sound like limiting or taking guns away from responsible people. It sounds common sense to me:
The Giffords shooting had, seemingly, upped the pressure to implement reforms. Obama himself used the occasion to pen an op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star advocating for stronger state-to-state coordination with respect to gun data, expedited background checks and greater enforcement of the laws already on the books. The Department of Justice meetings commenced not too long later and have continued over the course of several months, according to an administration official. They are now finished.
The end result, one source close to the discussions said, was a package of reforms “not huge in scope.” They are largely expected to mirror the topics covered in the president’s op-ed. Gun control advocates have pushed for more, including legislation that would limit the size of magazines — such as the 32-round magazine that Giffords’ shooter used — or a bill that would force private sellers to conduct background checks at gun shows — which was pushed in the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting.
*excerpt from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/obama-unveil-gun-control-reforms_n_892633.html
Well libby you missed a few things. First the Tea Party- You have got to be kidding with your comment “ranting thugs”. I suppose your occupy deadbeats were angels? If I recall no Tea Party participnats have been arrested, forced out of a public park. To my knowledge no was stabbed, no public arrests for indecency or urinating in public like the occupy deadbeats etc. In fact, in this area most of the tea party protesters were eligible for social security or on social security including my neighbors 81 year old mother whose picture made the paper.
Second, The Huffington Post- really? Do you believe anything that comes out of that rag? The article said nothing about what Obama wants to do. It is fact that Obama has always been someone who wants tight gun controls and gun bans. In the state of Illinois a responsible tax paying citizen can’t get a conceal, carry permit. You can’t even travel thru the state with a hangun even if you have a permit from another state. He also appointed Eric Holder another gun ban advocate. But after reading the article I found this most interesting. The article states-
“Administration officials were coy on the specifics, from the reforms the Department of Justice would recommend or when it would actually make those recommendations.” Anytime I hear that I shake my head as this is what the Obama gang has done the entire presidency until they can figure out how to go around the House with executive order.
Sargent, I noticed Libby’s reference to the Huffington Post as well. She likes to use the most left wing sources to try to prove her point. Kind of like Eric Holder’s Justice Dept using Media Matters to get their talking points. Yes, that is also a current story. We have a rogue government in charge right now full of radicals bent on taking this country down. They need to all go in less than 2 months.
I have also referenced links to FoxNews, but never get any response from those postings. Like me, you only respond to the postings or articles that support your position. It’s just human nature…
You referenced a link to Fox News from a non-paid contributor who is not only a democrat, she clearly lied in her post even according to politifact regarding medicare. It’s a famous piece, which everyone is slamming right now.
I don’t need to keep repeating lie of the year 2011 do I? Lie of the year 2011: Republicans are getting rid of medicare. Look it up, even left leaning politifact had to call it a lie. That Fox News piece you referenced had not one accurate comment in it from that particular person regarding Romney’s speech.
This article says she is a paid contributor. And she is seen regularly on the network.
http://sorosfiles.com/soros/2012/01/fox-news-hires-soros-funded-activist.html
There were many things she said that were true and not her opinion. All the things she listed that he didn’t talk about are fact.
What she DID NOT say was Republicans are getting rid of Medicare. You just throw in these unrelated nuggets to distract from the real discussion at hand.
And it was Ryan’s speech, not Romney’s.
Also, anytime someone is assaulted or shot such as Gabby Giffords it is horrible and tragic. Those responsible should be dealt with accordingly. But why punish everyone for a few idiots? That assault could have been done just as effective with a sawed off shotgun and a revolver. If it is up to this president the gun controls will have limit creep. Limit creep is a law which, after time, gets more restrictive until it accomplishes what they wanted in the beginning. That is something that has been used in Washington for years. I use medicaid and welfare as examples. What started out as a sort term, stop gap assistance program has flourished into a liberal come one come all program for several generations,illegal aliens etc.
No Thanks
If some ond had a hand gun, could they have prevented the damage by taking out the shooter sooner?
BTW, Libby is an east coaster – gone for the day.
Well, I don’t like guns so you won’t get any argument against gun control from me. Doubt blanket bans will ever happen as it’s unconstitutional. But ban the assault weapons for sure. Sorry, but I AM Libby after all…
And Sarge, if this could just as easily been done with a sawed off shotgun or revolver, why does anyone need an automatic weapon? You just kinda proved my point on that one, old boy.
Agent, You are correct about gun permits and crime. Since the republican governor enacted legislation allowing responsible citizens to obtain a conceal permit, violent crime has gone down every year as permit requests have gone up every year.
From what I understand, most of the violent crime in Chicago & Detroit is gang related. How does a conceal permit for the average Joe help in that situation? Unless you live right in the middle of gang territory and are shooting thugs down in cold blood. Then the violent crime rate would go up. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Many innocent people live smack dab in the middle of the mix. You dont hear about the gang bangers getting shot. You hear about the innocent victims.
Both are victims. Gangbangers killing each other and killing innocent bystanders. You just don’t hear as much about the gangbangers killing each other, because they don’t get any sympathy. Besides, my post said gang related. If gangbangers are killing innocent bystanders, that’s still gang related.
Sorry, missed the gang related aspect of your post.
Before they tore down the old stadium, I had a thought – Lock all the gan bangers in there, drop in a bunch of assorted gund, knifes and other weapons and just let them kill each other off. Last man standing get to rule the streets. One one gang banger dont make much for a gang. Hopefully he gets shot “accidentally”.
I just dont buy into gang bangers getting shot are victims. Its what they signed up for.
You know what they call a 30 yr old gang banger? Old.
Well, the gangs are a huge problem and it needs to be addressed. There are estimated to be 150,000 of them in Chicago alone. Did you look at the article I posted about why such an increase in violence? Due to the tearing down of the projects, etc. Instead of turning a blind eye, there needs to be community action to turn the situation around. You hardly “sign up for it” when that’s the only option you see around you and it’s kill or be killed. You’re going to hook up with the biggest, baddest gang you can find. It’s called survival. I know it goes against the grain to try to empathize with the situation, but until you do you won’t stop it.
There are many options. You made your choice. I made Mine. They make the choice. We all live with the consequences. I have no sympathy for any of them. Send in the Nat Guard. Kill them all. They should be viewed as domestic terrorists. They make the innocent people around them live in fear. Cant even let the kids play outside their own homes.
We agree on some points, but this one we could not be further apart unless you live in China.
BTW, I am glad Obama lied about closing Git Mo. Why the heck would we want them people on American Soil? He was looking at shipping them to a shuttered prison in IL. Thats all we would have needed.
Kill them all and there will just be more. Bigger, badder, and angrier. Not a real solution to the root of the problem. As risk managers, we’re supposed to get to the root cause of accidents in order to prevent them in the future. You don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can be just as angry as they are, but that will not help.
Libby, the Liberal Progressives in this country going back to LBJ and the War on Poverty thought they could solve problems by throwing money at it. As a matter of fact, LBJ robbed the Social Security Trust Fund to pay for his War on Poverty and trillions of dollars later, look what we have to show for it. $16 Trillion in debt and gangs roaming the streets in Chicago, LA, NY and other places. We have built housing for them, given them every assistance imaginable from food stamps to welfare, but have not taught them how to be responsible citizens, take advantage of education to get out of poverty. Progressive programs of entitlement have basically bankrupted this country and we are reaping what was sowed.
Get to the root of the problem? You have a point. Just like OBama did not do with the ACA – TORT REFORM.
I’m not sure how tort reform would help thousands of Americans obtain health insurance. I agree it needs to be addressed, but not in Obamacare. Still not clear on how Obamacare has hurt you. The COBRA laws are not a part of it and it may actually make it more affordable for you down the road. If WI has their own Badger Care, would you qualify for that if you lived there?
Agent, you have your facts backwards. Gang bangers are not receiving hand outs. They make more than you and I selling drugs and guns. Why work at McDonalds when you can do that? And have you seen the condition of their schools? I wouldn’t go there either. And in the case of Chicago, the increase in violence has been tied directly to us TEARING DOWN their homes. (Again, you didn’t read my link). Conservative right-wingers think all people less fortunate are looking for a hand-out and feel entitled. Not true. You guys seem to lack even a shred of compassion or interest in what has caused these problems to flourish. It’s not entitlements. It’s poverty, despair, and hopelessness. Those people can not get ahead no matter how hard they want to. They do not have access to the same resources or environment that we do. Try to have some empathy. Not sympathy. Empathy.
It would lower the cost of Med Mal which, ask any doctor, is one of their top expenses. Reduce the underlying cost associated with doing business reduce the amount they have to charge to cover that hugh over head expense. Just like anything else in this world.
I found this site interesting. It has a snapshot of the med mal statutes in each state. They’re all different.
http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/personal-injury/medical-malpractice/medical-malpractice-law-wisconsin.htm
Illinois actually has some limitations. Not many in PA.
5-6 yeqars ago. An OBGYN fresh out of Med School joining a practice that I had insured $75K a years before they even saw a patient. That practice closed its doors two years ago. One Med Mal claim.
A case I am familiar with – Guy died because he did not take his Blood Pressure Meds. $6M award. Three from the Doc. $3M from the hospital. Two words – Jury Symapthy.
Google Ill Jury Verdict Reporter. See the madness for yourself. Especially Cook County. Wonder how much of an effect Grey Lord Judges influenced what is going on today 20+ years later.
I’ve always agreed we need tort reform. Hello. I’m in the insurance biz. I just don’t see the correlation with Obamacare.
It was not addressed in OBama Care. Without addressing the underlying issues – the root cause, its just change for the sake of change.
I seen an article recently – I think it was the IJ – where the DOI of PEnn went to seek help from COngress to set up the exchange and got none. So, it seems, the states must turn to the private carriers for assistance. HMMM. Right back to the people that know what they are doing instead of some congress men grab a catch phrase and ride it to Washington.
Obamacare puts the administration of the exchanges in the state’s hands and therefore tort reform would have to be addressed at the state level. Just as the most federal legislation. We have the 2nd amendment, but each state has it’s own gun laws.
The exchanges will be made up of private insurance carriers that do business in the state, just the same as if you purchased it today. It’s just you will have one place to go to get an option for health insurance. Kind of like an independent agent.
I know you’re concerned about tort reform, but you must look to your state legislators for that, not Obamacare. It is designed to establish some rules to make coverage affordable and available to everyone. Whether it succeeds is still to be seen.
Libby, the states dont know what they are doing. Thats why they asked for help from the feds. The feds dont know, so they kick it back to the states.
I’m not familiar enough with how the exchanges are supposed to work. Not sure.
But, Libby, they dont know what they are doing. They ask for help and got none. And when they go ask for help from the private carriers, how much do you think they will cooperate? I would vire them as competition and tell them to go to he%$.
Who doesn’t know? The consumer or the carrier or the government (or all the above :-) ) Not sure what you’re saying in your post.
FFA & Libby, Texas did Tort Reform some years ago. The result of that legislation is an influx of doctors moving to the state to escape the clutches of the Blue States with their legions of Malpractice doctors and unlimited awards. It has made for a better climate for doctors in this state. Apparently, the lobbies by the Malpractice lawyers is so strong in the Blue States, it prevents any meaningful legislation from being passed. They like their gravy train up there. As far as the Exchanges go, that will degenerate into an online app with Medicaid type coverage. The carriers will just process because people cannot be denied coverage due to PreX’s. When the companies take a bath on claims, the HHS will just send them enough money to keep them going. What a system.
Well agent, Give me a T for Texas!
And Libby, neither are the states.
Sargent, I stick to my earlier statement that in our area, we have almost no accidental shootings. In larger cities, there are more shootings because they have more thugs and more guns. Responsible gun owners who have conceal and carry permits do not have accidental shootings. It is the unregistered crowd that are not practicing safety that have problems. These gun control freaks had better not mess with Texas or there will be trouble.
You’ll shoot us? Agent, if a police officer can have an accidental shooting, anyone can. And alot of the time it’s not the gun owner who has the accidental shooting. It’s his kid or the neighbor kid. Irresponsible gun owners make me crazy. You shouldn’t be allowed to have them if you can’t keep them unloaded with the safety on and out of reach of people that shouldn’t have them!
Libby, you made one correct statement. “Irresponsible gun owners make me crazy”. Those are the ones who don’t practice safe gun practices and often have unregistered guns and haven’t taken a course. By the way, a robber breaking in is not going to wait until the gun owner gets to his/her gun, loads it and takes the safety off to defend himself/herself. Yes, I would shoot you if you are breaking into my home or tried to rob me on the street or try to steal my car in the driveway if warnings are unheeded. It is not an accident if someone is in fear for their life and property from a thug.
I’m not talking about intentional shootings, OK? I’m talking about accidental shootings, which are in the top 10 causes of accidental deaths in America. They happen. If you have to sleep with a loaded weapon under your pillow, I feel sorry for you. Maybe you should move to a safer neighborhood.
I don’t sleep with a gun under my pillow because we have a very safe neighborhood, but the thugs know we have conceal and carry permits in my city and they stick to their drug deals and gang warfare and have to deal with the Police. The last thing they want is to have some citizen blow them away on a home invasion. The only thing the citizen be concerned with is to make sure the perp is in the premises and all is good.
Are you on a first name basis with these thugs? Or do you have a sign, like “Beware of Smith & Wesson” on your front door? How do the thugs know you have a weapon and permit? Just because you live in Texas and everybody does? It’s proven that most gang violence is between rival gang members and the only people getting caught in the cross fire are innocent people that happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I doubt there will be a gang war in any of our neighborhoods anytime soon. You are more likely to have your home invaded by the kid of the neighbor next door than an gang member. Do you want to kill him, too? Or just the “thugs” you reference so blanketly? I envy you Agent. The world is so black and white for you. So easy to make these judgements and feel very smug about them. It’s harder for me. I tend to empathize and try to be open enough to looking at things without tunnel vision.
Libby, Progressive policies in this country for over 40 years and trillions spent to try to lift these people out of poverty and hopelessness, continued deterioration in education with poor schools, no charter schools allowed, bad teachers with no accountability as shown in Chicago and the Democrats say they are on their side. We almost made some progress with Clinton signing onto no welfare without work and now Obama has reversed that by executive order when he didn’t have the right to do it. He wants to keep these people down, keep voting Democratic. Who is keeping them in chains? When you make people dependent on government for an extended period of time, they get used to it and then demand even more. I do have empathy and wish we could get this cycle reversed, but it won’t happen with Progressive Democratic policies.
Just put yourself, for a short moment, in a young, black teen’s shoes living in the ghetto. Mom’s a drug addict and Dad is in prison. Shooting going on all around you and you’re afraid to leave your house without protection. Someone approaches you and offers you more money in a month than you could otherwise make in a year. And you get a bunch of buddies that have your back in the bargain. Do you honestly think that is a “choice”. You could say “No, thanks” but you’d still end up dead. Or you say “Yes” take your chances, and hopefully live the high life if for just a little while before dying. There is no other way out. Now, if that is indeed an accurate depiction, it’s a desparate and hopeless way to live. Entitlements did not cause it. Drugs and the money and violence they bring with it did. Seriously, what are we really doing to address that problem?? Oh no! More government spending on drug programs and education? Impossible! We have to be fiscally responsible while our citizens are living like animals and killing each other. Your simplistic solutions to real life problems are not feasible. It’s much more complex and complicated than taking away what you call “entitlements”. Our society is in deep trouble and it has nothing to do with government spending.
Libby, I will try to forgive you for being so uninformed about the problems in our society and the root causes. I am also offended by your statement that Conservatives don’t care about poor people. The thing I have noticed over the years is that Liberals/Progressives never see the error of their ways or philosophies and never ever take responsibility for their actions. Do you think that Conservatives have caused the poverty that is so rampant in several of our major cities? Why aren’t you blaming the government and their misguided policies for the problems in these cities? Politicians in both parties are responsible for the failures and they think they can just throw more money at a problem and it will right itself. You are like an alcoholic that has not admitted their problem before they can get help. Your belief system tied to Progressive Democrats & RINO’s is extremely flawed. I do agree with your last statement that our society is in deep trouble and it has everything to do with how our government has approached the problem with programs that don’t work and has continued the misery index for nearly 50 years. It boils down to politics and keeping these poor people in their place.
See Derick Rose.
See Jimmy Grahm – TE NO Saints.
I appreciate your forgiveness. But I do think conservatives have had alot to do with slowly squeezing out the middle class and creating more poverty. Yes siree. Used to be owning a home and having a retirement pension were pretty much a given if you got a job, worked hard, and did the right thing. That is no longer the case. I’m sure politians played a part, but I’m not convinced it is totally the democrats that are to blame. It’s just another example of why trickle down does not work. The rich are, and have been getting richer. Why then does it not trickle down and create MORE middle class rather than less? I’ll tell you why, because the rich are rich for a reason. And it’s not because they spend their money. They hoarde it and stash it and hide it to avoid paying taxes on all of it. I read the other day that people that make $1M+ through investment interest pay little to no taxes, while people that make $1M+ in salary pay more than 15%.
So, Reverse the flow and have trickle up poverty is the solution?
I love your trickle up poverty line, but no, that’s not what I’m suggesting. If I had all the answers I’d run for office. But then again, I’m too honest so forget that. I want to get rid of loopholes that favor the rich, punish those guilty of corporate greed to the extent of hurting others (Enron, Madoff, wall streeters, etc.) and I want them to reimburse those they stole from for a start.
Wonder how many of those people I listed are democrats???
What part of the Country are you from Sarge? Detroit?
Thank you FFA. Well said. Libby didn’t even bother to read my post that said Progressive Democrats and RINO’s have caused the failed policies. She said she didn’t believe it was just the Democrats that caused the problem like I accused them. Are they the ring leaders? I believe so, but RINO’s were reaching across the aisle to pass all this legislation over the years. Her belief system is to make poverty trickle up from the bottom and take a bite out of the middle class. The reason why the Middle Class is getting hosed is the wild, rampant spending, borrowing from China at $3.5 Billion per day, taxation that is crippling the job creators and entitlement spending which is at an all time high. Their big goal is to make everyone equally poor in the interest of “fairness”. Forgive me for not wanting to go onto a diet of beans and rice like they do in Cuba and Venezuela.
I did read your post, Agent. I just don’t agree with it entirely. And RINO’s are still Republican, last time I checked. How do you tell them apart? Is there a secret handshake?
It is really very easy to tell them apart Libby. Republicans In Name Only are the Progressives with an “R” behind their name. They don’t stand for Conservative principles, but have bought into the Progressive agenda by compromise. Yes, they do have a secret hand shake. It is called reaching across the aisle. Progressives never compromise their agenda. If a Republican compromises, they adopt the big spending agenda which has failed so miserably for nearly 50 years. I hold them equally accountable. John McCain and his joined at the hip mate Lindsey Graham are the worst examples and McCain has even said that Teddy Roosevelt was his hero. What a travesty!
Wasn’t McCain a democrat at one point? Or am I mixing him up with someone else?
Define RINO please.
“Republicans in Name Only”
YAHOO!!! Our kids in Chicago are back in school. Rahm was pushing them to court for an injunction. Finally hammered out a deal.
He should have stuck to his guns and brought in the Union Busters from WI.
FFA, from what I read about this, the teachers still don’t have to be rated for competency and didn’t give up any benefits. The legacy of failure continues under the big, bad union. Chicago is broke so I don’t know where the money will come from unless Obama bails them out through the Education department. They have affirmed that they can hold Chicago hostage with their demands.
If I understood the news last night correctly, teacher evals are watered down, merit pay is off the table. Defies logic. They have a system on the table that allows the better teachers better pay and the union dont want it.
Besides how would it look – OBamas former right hand breaking a union 7 weeks before the election? I wonder if there were some late night phone calls between Rahm & Barak with Barak urging Rahm to cave. Yes, I have suffered long enough under Ill Politics for that though to pop in my head.
First you’re upset Rahm is not doing something to end the strike and the kids are suffering. Then he does something to end the strike and you’re still not happening. Weren’t you against him forcing an injunction? I can’t keep it straight other than to come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter what Emmanuel or Obama do, you all are going to complain about it. But then again, Bush couldn’t do anything right in my eyes, so I do understand.
Im was upset at both sides. These are kids that need to be in school to put then selves to be in the best position to escape the life of crime you and I discessed elsewhere. I am not happy with a 50% spike in the murder rate since he took over. I am against Rahm for that reason and that reason only. I would like to hop a train to Cell Field and take in a ball game with my Gr Kids but wont. Forget the Cubs this year. Boy wonder traded away our two best pitchers. (Your not welcome agent) and our catcher. I am not happy with unions either for not hammering this thing out while scholl was not supposed to be in session. Too many of my clients sitting home waiting for the hall to call. OBama – his ACA and being from IL – need I say more about him? Your a better option for the simple fact your not from IL.
Too many people not working. He could step on the foreign trade agreements, but dont. We need our jobs back. We do not need more debt. Instead, with out my permission, he puts me in debt to the Chinease.
I sit here staring at trickle up poverty coming to grab my but and suck me into the Give A Way life style and I dont like it.
So, to sum it up – Unions Bad. Rahm – Bad. OBama – Bad. Grunt & Oink! Nothing good going on.
Gee, after listening to you and Agent, I think I’m just going to slit my wrists and get it over with. But wait! I’m Pollyanna so I can’t. Things will get better. Today is another day!
So, the news last night stated that Rahm partially caved on the Teacher Evaluations and the Union caved on letting the local principle in on hiring decisions. They also stated that they do not have the money to pay the contract. That came from Rahm & the CTU. Both know they cant pay for it?? Rahm got his longer school day. Later in the news, the Event Tax is increasing to the highest in the country. Good luck drawing big name entertainers into the UC.
Now, the news guy injected that between 120 & 180 schools will need to close to cover the cost. He also stated that many of them were set to close due to poor performance anyways.
My opinion, Rahm won with comprimise. Teacher Evals are coming into play. The crappy schools were set to close anyways. evaluating the school “trickels down” to evaluating the teachers. They are going to get canned anyways.
Many of my friends were very upset with the CTU. The head of the CTU says she speaks for the children.
My Opnion – BS. Greedy Bitch. I guess I would call this whole thing a loss for kids and a win for Rahm and a slight victory for the teachers as the bad teachers will be canned and the good will make more money. The bad schools will close anyways. A black eye for the union. The CTU seemingly is getting the bulk of the blame from the parents that I know personally.
Now Rahm, fix the Murder rate. Daily had it on the run with his gang task force you eliminated. Maybe, just maybe Daily had the right thing in place??? Are you too arrogant to admit you made a mistake? Time will tell.
This is an except from an article from yesterday’s Chicago Sun-Times:
There is no way Chicago is going to significantly reduce the violence without investing resources in the communities where the violence is occurring.
Every time an ex-felon walks out of prison and returns to the neighborhood without even a job prospect, that person is ripe for trouble.
And how long will a young person who is struggling with basic reading, writing and math skills be content to sit in the back of the classroom pretending to learn. It won’t be long before that kid finds himself carrying a gun like a bookbag.
Obviously, non-blacks have committed murder in this city.
But day after day, the faces of the victims and the perpetrators of homicides are black. Imagine how that must impact young black children who are trying to survive in neighborhoods hard hit by foreclosures and high unemployment.
Worse yet, the largest employer in some neighborhoods on the West and South Sides is still the drug trade.
The city needs to find additional resources so that there are alternatives to this negative pursuit in neighborhoods that are impacted by these violent crimes. Besides police presence, these residents need access to counseling, recreational facilities and jobs.
Actually helping the people who are being impacted by the killings is a first step toward breaking this negative cycle.
After all, love has always overcome hate.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/13688006-452/mayor-rahm-emanuel-on-the-hot-seat-over-citys-murders.html
I so agree with this article.
Libby, there is just as much white trash out there as there are the blacks that you referr to.
People make choices. The trash (black, white,chritian, muslum, male,female) you referr to have free will that god gave them. Their choices are a their own. They can choose to rise above. They can coose to sink below.
I dont believe in this oh poor baby crap. When life dumps on you, pick your self up and move on. Sitting in the same place, doing the same thing day in and day out expecting different results – its just foolish. No one can be that stupid. They can be that lazy.
Thats the problem in todays world – too many people making too many excuses for people not pulling their load. I got done with college and got handed a stack of app with out anyone promising me anything!
And now all these dead beat piles of crap sticking their hand out wanting a piece of what I built on my own. I see it in my own house. My daughter says to me “I’m going to get a cell phone on your account because it would be cheaper”. I said “like hell you are. Go get a job”. She said “well how am i supposed to blah blah blah peppered with excuses and self pitty”. I’ll tell you how, get your ass up in the AM and find a job”. She says “But excuse, excuse,excuse” The generation of entitlement – I’m entitled because I am here.
Screw that noise. People need to get off their dead asses and find jobs. This jack ass in the white house needs to cut the cronic bumbs off. Drug test all the dead beats getting give a ways. Wonder how many are unemployed because they cant passs a piss test.
BTW, Suntime is generally a democratic slanted paper. They recently busted their union.
So, enough of the poor baby excuses. What ever happened to personal accountabaility?
Since the thread of the post was discussing the murder rate in Chicago, I was talking about gang violence. These guys aren’t getting a hand out. They’re making more money that you and me put together. But they’re killing each other and innocent people in the process. You’re the one living in Chicago and complaining about street violence. As long as you consider all these people to be trash, they haven’t got a chance. You are helping perpetuate the problem, not solve it.
Caught me on the wrong day at the wrong time.
I have no sympathy for the gang bangers. They make their choices.
I don’t think they have many choices…
We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Way too many programs for these poeple to lean on that excuse.
People who preach that are just enablers.
Yea, its pretty bad in this state.
We can agree to disagree. I’m fine with that. But I was not preaching or enabling. I was attempting to get to the root cause of the problem, as that is the only way to get rid of it. Condemnation and more rage and violence is not the answer. But that’s OK. You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions.
Libby says- “And Sarge, if this could just as easily been done with a sawed off shotgun or revolver, why does anyone need an automatic weapon? You just kinda proved my point on that one, old boy.”
No Libby, I made my point and you missed it, again. The point is why limit or ban guns when that incident could have happened with a variety of guns? For example, the columbine shooters (cowards that they were) used one automatic weapon(actually I think it was semi auto)a tech 9. They also used two shotguns and a rifle. So which guns do you want to ban?
In this country a citizen (responsible or not)can not own an automatic weapon of any kind unless they have an FFL (Federal Firearms License). They can own semi auto weapons and there is a big difference. Now, I would go so far as to agree with a ban on certain types of cheap, poor quality, inaccurate and knock off type weapons, like knock off AKs. They are cheap and often dangerous. The problem is, who administers this and who will understand which are poor quality and which are not? Also, with the bozos in government who is to keep them in check and not add more and more quality arms to the bad list? I don’t trust the “I am from Washington and here to help bunch” or state gov for that matter to administer something like this
I obviously don’t know much about guns, nor do I want to. But why does an average citizen need an assault weapon? Is it just some macho BS I’m missing or what??
No good answers for this one? There is no good reason for an average citizen to own an assault weapon, that’s why. In typical guy fashion, you just ignore the questions you can’t answer.
Sargent, Libby doesn’t seem to think poor people have any choices except to ply the drug trade and be criminals or be on the government dole. They have been brainwashed by the main street media and liberal politicians for several decades into believing this is their station in life. The majority of these people do not have 2 parents to raise them right and encourage education. I personally know several black men and women who escaped from poverty and got an education and got good jobs in the insurance industry. They live just like we do and are living the American Dream. They don’t like what Obama and his minions and RINO’s have done anymore than we do. The War on Poverty started by LBJ to lift these people up was one of the biggest travesties ever foisted upon the American People at the cost of trillions of dollars and these people are products of dependency. The politicians want to keep these people down, keep them uneducated and keep them voting for the Democrats.
You guys don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. It’s hard to pull up by your bootstraps when you have no boots. But you wouldn’t know anything about that type of life. You’re too busy judging and damning anyone that doesn’t fit into your idea of what is acceptable. Intolerance is ignorance in disguise. I have no use for people with no empathy. You’re all hopeless!
Libby, Conservative do have empathy for the plight of the poor, but we disagree vehemently with the politics of despair and hopelessness that Progressives espouse. Places like Detroit and Chicago are the posterchildren of liberal policy over decades despite all the help they have been given. It has been all one huge failure from the beginning because all the wrong things have been done. Then, we have a President who openly believes in redistribution of wealth which penalizes successful job creators and gives the money to the n’er do wells and we see how we will be Chavez in a few years. By the way, Chavez is struggling in his re-election campaign due to a failing economy, poor public services and lack of freedom with his citizens. This sure sounds familiar to me. If he didn’t have oil to sell to us, he would have already been out of there.
Funny, Illinois and Michigan are not anywhere near the top 50% of states receiving government funding per capita. The top 10 are Alaska, Virgina, Maryland, Hawaii, New Mexico, Kentucky, Alabama, West Virginia, Connecticut and North Dakota; with Alaska at #1. They are actually towards the bottom of the list. It doesn’t appear to me that Progressives have “thrown money” at these states to help solve their crime and poverty problems.
FFA, yes from the Detroit metro area.
I hope you are in the suburbs instead of Detroit proper. That has been shown as pretty much like a third world country with decaying neighborhoods, rampant crime and street thugs. How many mayors have they had convicted now for corruption? How much population have they lost due to flight? I have heard that Detroit has lost almost half its population in recent years. Is that close? Protect yourself Sargent by whatever means are necessary.
Are you Ted Nugent? You say a lot of the same thngs he says.
Well, long live the Nuge anyways!
Yes, live in the burbs. I love what the city used to be, not what it is now. The city council are a bunch of crooked idiots and the Mayor is Dave Bing former Detroit Piston and hall of fame B-Ball player. I like Dave but he gets no help from the City council. The former mayor has been indicted on 19 counts of racterring and that was after he was convicted of perjury among other charges. He has spent tim in prison and looks like he might go back.By the way, the last time they had a Republican in the mayors office was 1967. Now that is a testimonial to wealth redistribution if I have ever seen one. Detroit has had more federal and state tax money poured into it than just about any major city and it has been a failure. aybe Romney should hold it up as an example of federal redistribution failure.
I go down to the city to watch the Tigers, Wings and Lions occasionally.
All the republicans left cuz there’s no money in Detroit anymore. Republicans are like groundhogs, they can sniff out money like nobody’s business. Auto and steel industries are toast there. Mostly due to corporate outsourcing overseas (read greed) than to anything else. I know, I know. They wouldn’t be outsourcing if the democrats hadn’t taxed them to death. I say bullshit. Unions priced their workers right out of jobs. Why pay $35 an hour when you can go overseas and pay $3.50 an hour (if that!). It wasn’t taxes that drove them overseas, it was cheap labor.
1. The easy answer to the $35 an hour to pay $3.50 an hour is the ending result. My father ran high up at both Space Labs Medical and Fluke. Space Labs Medical charged him with managing costs with India manufacturing jobs as well as China. The first thing to note is that NO ONE has a cost of 3.50 an hour if the cost here is $35. The ratios go as high as 5. They do not surpass 5. He said he could hire maybe 4-5 engineers in China for the cost of hiring one here. However, the cost of making the product did not go down, because then he needed one engineer here to check the work, and one translator to be able to inform the engineer how to fix the work, as well as a manager who was proficient enough in both engineering, manufacturing, and was capable of speaking multiple languages. Quiz question: How easy is it to find a manufacturing engineering experienced manager in China who also speaks english? It’s nearly impossible. He ended up hiring one of those here. How much does one of those cost? About $200,000 a year at Space Labs Medical. The cost of doing business over seas is rarely cheaper than doing business here, when accounting for all operational costs. My brother worked for Idearc. Idearc had an American team to correct the errors of the Indian team. They had the same set up, a few managers who could speak both languages trying to manage two teams in different languages. It doesn’t work out very well.
2. So you’re saying, the fact that Obama wants to end loopholes to force Oil companies here to pay 30% in the U.S. in addition to the 35% on average they pay in other countries, and that charging that 30% rather than the 9% they are charging now has no effect on thier operational costs? If it were a one billion dollar company that’s a 21% difference, also known as about $200,000,000 dollars, also known as adding 1/5th of their costs to their total costs. Every additional dollar they have they can invest into more jobs and research here. 65% of a tax rate would force jobs over seas.
3. You make the bold assumption that republicans are corporations, or are influencing their actions as your premise in your first section of the debate. Again ignoring that DHL in Oregon was pushed out due to Democrat regulations, In Washington there is building code favoring Comcast, so there are no other companies here other than Comcast, Clear, and in some rare places a third, but Quest doesn’t exist in the west. And also ignoring that the democrat Ohio senator is tasked with passing flight regulations, and he passed regulations that would have killed Fed Ex flight shipping in favor of UPS (did you miss that one?) and that the democrat senator said he wouldn’t listen to any other state’s comments on the matter because he was the Ohio senator not the senator for anyone else (even though he was passing a federal regulation for all states) These democrats are for a fact in bed with corporations. Repubs are completely for getting out of bed with corporations. I challenge you to list anything that was passed by republicans which specifically resulted in the companies leaving (which you implied). If you have nothing, then don’t make the defamatory and unfounded remark.
1) You don’t pay an engineer $35 an hour in the U.S., but you do an assembly worker. Those are the workers I was talking about. The ones that do all the work.
2) The key words here are “Obama wants to”. It hasn’t happened yet, so there is not effect on their operational costs at this time.
3) Yes, I missed that one.
1. I’m aware. But the number of difference still does not surpass 5. So if they are paid $35 here, they are likely paid $7 there.
2. The key words there are this is the democrat path to prosperity. They will go for it. So I’ll hold him accountable for his plans.
3. Interesting.
OK, I’ll concede to $7. Still alot less than $35… And payroll is usually 40-50% of operating expense. Surely nothing to sneeze at.
I appreciate the link, Bob, because it debunks the 10% increase you stated in your post:
“Scott said that the Congressional Budget Office said people would pay 10 percent more for policies on the exchange, “so about $2,100 more for a family.” What he doesn’t say is that these policies will have to offer comprehensive coverage. So people will pay more, but they’re also get more benefits. Additionally, the federal government will offer subsidies to many of these people to cut the cost.
It’s also important to remember the CBO’s “apples-to-apples” comparison. According to the agency, people in the individual market will actually pay less for the required amount of benefits under the Affordable Care Act than they would for those same benefits under old policies.
We rate Scott’s statement Mostly False.”
Actually Libby, no, it doesn’t. My post specifically said, the difference between the Republican and the Democrat plan.
The democrat plan takes away choice, determines what you should buy, and increases premiums 10% as a result.
The republican plan had the same coverages, no mandate, and resulted in a 10% decrease INCLUSIVE of the democrat coverages.
It doesn’t debunk anything. You just can’t connect the dots.
Moreover Libby:
I only took that site because it is the only one you will listen to.
I do not agree with the rest of that post at all, and have facts debunking nearly all of it.
I only focused on the one which republicans have actually been talking about. That the $2,100 average increase is the cost of the bill (10%) with coverages the democrats forced into the policy. It increased the cost of coverage.
The republican plan (which we’ve all discussed on the right but you have not) does the same exact covergages, but through competition, even the CBO states that the premiums would go down 10%, or $2,100 premium.
My only goal with referencing a very lousy source, (politifact is lousy whether you’ve figured it out yet or not) is that they themselves agree with the $2,100 increase, and try to back petal and say “but you get better coverage!”.
In comparison to nothing you do. In comparison to the republican plan no you don’t.
Bob, the $2,100 doesn’t take into account the subsidies you’ll receive. So once again you have posted an article about costs without also including the credits to show the net effect of the transaction.
Did they take their money and run for their life? Sounds pretty bleak up there.
That should be racketeering!
No not Ted. I have met Ted and he is an interesting person. I like Ted’s music and like watching people interview him. I am not a big hunter like he is. I probably fish a little more than he does- Ha.
Agent, at one time the city of Detroit had 1.8 million people growing and was considered to be the best city in the US to live, work, schools etc. It was like a Seattle today for example. Today they would struggle to have 900K residents while the suburbs have grown tremendously. It is still a very large metropolitan area say 5.5 to 6 million, I would guess. The people are here, they just moved out of the city.
Libby, once again you are WRONG. Gm’s headquarters is in the Ren Cen downtown on the river, Chrysler has one of its largest and most modern assembly plants on the east side of the city. They employ around 5500 workers in that plant. Blue Cross Blue shields headquarters is in the city, Quiken loans is moving downtown. Their is Comerica Park, Ford Field and the UAW’s headquarters is downtown. Chrysler has actually leased enough office space downtown to house all the executive staff and then some and are moving as soon as the space is finished.The Henry Ford Health system (one of the largest in the country) is downtown, not to mention MGM Grand, Motor City Casino, Greektown, Fox Theatre and on and on.
I stand corrected Sarge. You certainly know Motown better than I do. But Detroit proper has lost 25% of it’s population and demographics are changing for a reason. Are you saying the auto industry had nothing to do with it?
Te problem with Detroit is the people who run it think a cty council job or the Mayor’soffice is a license to steal from the citizens. One council member is in jail for taking bribes. Her name- Monica Conyers the Wife of Congressman JOHN CONYERS. Another councilwomen Martha Reeves (Martha Reeves and the Vandellas) owes a bunch of money to the IRS and loos like she paid the IRS with money she took from the city. The Mayor had a pay to play scam in which anyone who wanted to do any city business had to pay the mayor and his possed before they would get a contract. Theyhave a city payroll tax of 1.5% that everyone who works in the city has to pay and just disappears. The school system is one of the worst in the country. They have a 25% graduation rate. in Other words, if your child is enrolled in detroit schools as a kindergardner, only 25% will graduate high school. Libby- would you live in a city an send your children to Detroit city schools- No you would not. The city services are so poor they can’t even pick up the trash and two thirds of the street likes don’t even work while crime is one of the highest crime rates in the US and tops in murder and rape. All of this after the federal government and the state sends billions of dollars that is wasted. In Detroit the state spends almost $10,000 per pupil per year. That is as much or maybe even a little more than my city and my city has a 98% graduation rate. In fact my city, along with the rest of the state has to subsidize etroit’s lousy school system
That is why people don’t live in Detroit
Which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did people move out and then schools went downhill because the tax base shrunk? Or did the schools go downhill so people moved out of the City? What caused the change in demographics is my question. I understand the effects of the change, just not the reason. Just curious. Not picking a fight with this one…
WOW. Maybe I’m not so bad off here in IL. No wait, I am.
Sargent, I guess your post did not enlighten Libby enough. Detroit has a long history of corruption in the mayors office and city council and it has been very poorly ran for a quarter century. By the way Libby, it wasn’t Conservative Republicans in charge over that entire period of time. People fled the city because they could see the handwriting on the wall. That has caused the city to implode and now it shows little promise despite getting all the help from the state and federal government.
During the last quarter century, Detroit actually grew and prospered. It has only been since 2000 that the population has begun to shrink. My question was why? That’s all.
street lights
Libby, Detroit has lost at least half its population from the high. Republicans and companies spend a trmendous amount of money in the city. It is the people who run it that keeps it from changing for the good. the FBI and the IRS have a full plate. People who can live elsewhere do so because of poor schools, crime, city payroll tax, lack of city services and it is not going to change unless the regime changes
People left first and left the city to the new mayor, a guy named Coleman Young who stood up and said if you don’t like us get the H*ll out of the city.
One last comment and then I have to go make some money. The former, indicted Mayor of the City of Detroit is a guy by the name of Kwame Kilpatrick (yes, that is his name and people elected him) He is the son of Congresswoman Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick (D) Detroit. His Father is also indicted in the racketeering scam.
Surely his mother would know nothing about the criminal enterprise that her husband and son and involved in???
Democrats involved in corruption is not exactly news to anyone. Neither are republicans involved in corruption. Being a politician implies some level of crookedness, doesn’t it?
You are right Libby. That is why it is so puzzling that you stand by your statement that Obama has been “noble” and “honest” with the American People. He and his administration take deviousness and outright corruption to a new level. It has been shown that some of the biggest crooks like Corzine and all the green energy guys that have gone belly up were big bundlers of cash for Obama’s coffers. They took hundreds of millions of our tax dollars and gave a lot of it back in campaign contributions. How crooked is that? Corzine seemed to misplace $2bil of investors money and doesn’t know what happened to it. My guess is a lot of it is in the Obama bank account.
Those are pretty serious accusations to be hurling. They may be true, but I stand by my “feeling” that Obama is sincere when he says he wants to improve the life of Americans. He just may not be talking about the same Americans you are. Being a white, educated, middle class male means you don’t belong to the minority…
Libby, Libby, Libby. You are suffering from brainwashing. Your President has been lying to you for 4 years and you still don’t get it. I do believe he is sincere in wanting to redistribute the wealth of the country (his own words) and make everyone equally poor. A real President represents all Americans and does not seek to divide by race, class or economic status. He does not go around the world apologizing to other countries for America either. He also does not lie about the travesty in Benghazi for a week before admitting it wasn’t a demonstration after all but a planned attack by Al Quida. He just cannot admit that he has ever made a mistake in judgment and seeks to blame someone else if things go bad. It is high time that this guy be retired and all his minions who believe the way he does. It is time you dispensed with your “feeling” and started using your brain and common sense.
Since the majority of Americans are not wealthy fat cats, he is representing the real America. The middle, lower-middle and poor classes of people. We are the ones that need help. Not wealthy fat cats who’s incomes GREW by 17% last year, while everyone else had theirs shrink by percentages greater than that. How is that possible if they are so put-upon by tax-hungry democrats? Give me a break! When the going gets tough, the rich get richer and everyone else gets the shaft. Obama is seeking to close the gap between the classes so that everyone has the opportunity to prosper, not just the 1-4%. And I’m all for it.
Libby, your attack on the wealthy holds no water. If your President was really for “all” the people, he wouldn’t have done what he has done to shrink the net worth of the middle class by 25% in 4 years. It wasn’t the wealthy that instituted these Progressive schemes. The wealthy would rather see the middle class do well so more can buy homes, cars and other products and services which will allow them to do well. Instead, we get terrible policies, spending at record levels, more dependency which drags us all down and keeps jobs from being created. This is commonly called “Trickle up Poverty” and that is Obama’s plan to a T.
The shrinking of net worth can not be laid at Obama’s feet. That started before he was even elected and is a result of greedy Wall Streeters who made bad loans, stole from the middle class, and made complicated deals hedging all their bets. And who are these greedy Wall Streeters you might ask? They damn sure aren’t the poor and middle-class shmucks that suffered from their actions. They’re fat cats that made their millions off the backs of the American people. They ought to all be in jail.
Libby says- “During the last quarter century, Detroit actually grew and prospered. It has only been since 2000 that the population has begun to shrink. My question was why? That’s all.”
I don’t know where you get your information but you are wrong- again. I have lived here a long time and no the city has not grown and prospered in the last quarter century. Here are the stats from the Detroit Fress Press which is a liberal (as you might expect) paper and what they will admit to.
1920- 993,678 residents
1930- 1,568,662
1950- 1,849,568
1960- 1,670,144
1970- 1,511,482
1980- 1,203,339
1990- 1,027,974
2000- 951,270
2010- 713,770 a 100 year low
Source: The Detroit Alamnac by Detroit Free Press
What an alarming decline Sargent. Could this decline be the result of how the city was ran by the succession of liberal Democratic crooks?
Here’s where I got that stat. It’s stated the 4th paragraph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit
Libby, Actually most of the shrinkage can be laid at the feet of Obama. Gasoline prices doubled, food prices skyrocketing, utility bills going through the roof. How has that helped the middle class? Some of these so called crony fat cats are buddies of your President and contribute heavily to his campaign. Many of the former employees of Goldman Sachs are now working in the administration. The Housing crisis started with Fannie & Freddie and your pals Barney Frank & Chris Dodd saying everthing was just fine and no worries. We all know how that turned out. The current demise of the middle class was a direct result of Progressive policies instigated by both parties with insane policy decisions & out of control spending. If your President was really interested in helping the middle class, he should adopt Conservative solutions and help business create jobs instead of penalyzing them for success. He would have an energy policy that would bring production to this country instead of trying all these green schemes that all go belly up after they use up their loans. Margaret Thatcher said it best that with Socialism, pretty soon you run out of other peoples money.
Since the income of the fat cats (republican & democrats) increased 17th this past year, how are they being penalized? Alot of these guys do not create jobs with their wealth. They may donate some to charities of their choice (tax deductible) but hedge fund managers and venture capitalists are not creating jobs for the middle class. They are slowly squeezing the life out of us. And green technology is a must if we are to look to the future of this planet. Sooner or later we will run out of oil and it won’t matter who’s money runs out.
Libby, Let’s try to keep our eye on the ball. You keep railing against the so called fat cats because they made money and have signed onto the Progressive mantra that they need to pay more of their fair share. We could tax them 100% and it wouldn’t be a drop in the bucket since we are borrowing $3.5 Billion a day from China to keep this government afloat. We should agree that the middle class is getting hosed and small business is getting hosed and they are the job creators. They need relief from overwhelming taxes and regulation or there will be no jobs created and the middle class will continue to drop into the abyss of despair and hopelessness. Government is what is squeezing the life out of us, not venture capitalists. By the way, the Bakken Basin & Green River basin has over 3 Trillion barrels of proven reserves in them and that is in just two areas. I would rather create some energy right now rather than trying to make gas out of switchgrass, algae or cow dung like all these failed green companies have done.
Spoken like a true Texan.
You bet Libby. States that are actively seeking and drilling for energy have among the lowest unemployment rate. Their big problem is to find housing for workers on the increased activity. North Dakota and Oklahoma have the most activity going on and I applaud them for creating great private sector jobs. Texas would be down there also if they didn’t have so many illegals swimming the river adding to our woes. We do have a very active Oil & Gas expoloration operation going and Texas created more private sector jobs in the past two years than all the blue states combined. Gee, I wonder how we did that since our President said we didn’t do that.
Agent, did you watch 60 Minutes last night? Both Romney and Obama were on. It was interesting and very telling.
I dont get it. Why do you begrudge people for making more money then most? They live the American Dream and be all they can be. Its the land of opportunity.
Donating to charity does not help the country out? Charities need to pay employees. They need research money.
So what. SOmeone makes a Mill a year. I’m jelous. I dont carry a grudge. Just because they did it and I didnt? Nor do I think it should be taxed away from them to pay for someone who dont carry their weight. I believe in helping people out, but I do not believe in being taken advantage of.
Any why watch 60 minutes when there was a perfectly good foot ball game to watch. An hour long political ad that says I’m better then you? Dont we hear enouigh of that crap interupting our good tv shows?
I don’t begrudge anyone making money in this country. What I begrudge are the loopholes and sheltering afforded to them so they are able to pay less (percentage wise) tax than I do. If I pay 15% on ALL my income, shouldn’t they be required to do that too? Instead they are afforded loopholes and options for sheltering income that allows them to pay 15% on less than 100% of their earnings. I certainly believe in the American dream and if someone can succeed and make money, more power to them. That only gives me hope that I have that opportunity, too. But pay your fair share, that’s all I ask.
I am with you FFA. Ball games are much better than watching 60 minutes. CBS is just one example of a biased network committed to the re-election of this President. I shudder to think of Bob Schieffer conducting one of the debates. He will be trying his utmost to slant the questions to Romney and try to make him look bad and soft balling the President.
The piece was quite good actually. And we switched back and forth to the game. The questions were pretty evenly matched and no-one was softballed compared to the other. I thought it was very informative and enjoyed it.
FFA, I certainly don’t critcize Romney for giving $4 million to charity. It will do a whole lot more good than giving it to the government to waste. I tithe to my church and they do very good work with it and actually give people a helping hand up instead of a hand out. If charitable giving is attacked and becomes part of taxes, a lot of churches will be hurting big time and will go away.
FFA, The story came out a couple of years ago that Bite Me Biden paid less than 1% of his income to charity and they have the gall to criticize Romney when he give a lot to charity, around $4 million. Lurch Kerry is worth an estimated $300 million with his wife, the picle queen and they avoid paying taxes like the plague. He moved his yacht from Massachusetts to Rhode Island to avoid the yacht taxes. They are the biggest hypocrites in politics.
Libby-
The reason why? read my other post. No one who can afford to live elsewhere wants to live in Detroit due to: A high crime rate, abysmal public school system, poor city services including trash, sewer. two thirds of the street lights in the city don’t work, and a corrupt city government with absolutely no desire to change. Money is poured into the city and wasted. Responsible people won’t live in a city like this and don’t want their tax money wasted
Libby, Have you seen the movie 2016? It is very interesting and very telling.
Huh?
Have you seen Farenheit 911, Bowling for Columbine, or An Inconvenient Truth??? Also, interesting, factual, and telling. I was just asking if you watched 60 Minutes and your opinion of the interviews. If you didn’t watch or have to opinion, just say so. Romney and Obama were both on and given equal time to respond to questions. I thought it was a good representation of both sides.
Libby, What you are not realizing about taxable income is that it was earned to start with and taxed under wages or salaries at higher rates. Investment income is the result of taking risks where the money could be lost on a bad investment. If the investor is wise and makes money on his investment, he is taxed again under capital gains. How many times should a person be taxed on money he has made? How is that not his fair share? I do agree that the Tax Code sucks and needs to be scrapped and replaced, kind of like Obamacare.
I have to pay tax on my investment income, too. So what? I am talking about tax shelters and loophole deductions.
Hypothetically Libby, If you had $100,000 of money you earned by salary and were taxed on and built up a nest egg by saving it and made an investment that went south and you lost everything, would you take a tax deduction on that lost money on your taxes? If you made money on your investment, do you have a problem being taxed again at 15% of your “Capital Gain”?
Only on the amount over and above the $100,000 I started with. I’m OK with taxing that, as it is now income.
What percent would you be willing to pay on this gain? Do you want the same percent that Romney pays or 30% so you will be paying your “fair” share? If you got lucky and made $50,000 on your investment, you would have to cough up $15,000 on your gain. Under present rules, you would only pay half that or $7,500. You took the risk, could have lost it or most of it and because you were wise, you made some money. I don’t think it is right for government to tax us on what we earn and later put a high percent on our investment income, do you?
I only made capital gains once in my lifetime (in the 90’s) and it was taxed like you wouldn’t believe. Did I like it? No. Did I have to pay it? Yes. The rules are the rules and they should apply to everyone. I’m not worried about someone having to pay 30% on their gravy train. Sorry. I’m more worried about me, my family, and my friends who are struggling to make ends meet and feed our families. You won’t get any sympathy from me on this one.
Wow, Libby- you don’t get it.I read the wikipedia site. If you go to Demographics the numbers are pretty close to my numbers. The city has been in decline since the 1960’s What you must be looking at are the metro and region numbers. Those populations have grown and have prospered but that is not the city. That is where people like me live in the suburbs and outside of the city limits. That is north of 8 mile rd. I never said the metro area (suburbs) is in decline, just the opposite. It is the city we are talking and not many want to live in it.
Sarge, my impression of Detroit has always been that it is a cesspool. You’re the one that said:
“Gm’s headquarters is in the Ren Cen downtown on the river, Chrysler has one of its largest and most modern assembly plants on the east side of the city. They employ around 5500 workers in that plant. Blue Cross Blue shields headquarters is in the city, Quiken loans is moving downtown. Their is Comerica Park, Ford Field and the UAW’s headquarters is downtown. Chrysler has actually leased enough office space downtown to house all the executive staff and then some and are moving as soon as the space is finished.The Henry Ford Health system (one of the largest in the country) is downtown, not to mention MGM Grand, Motor City Casino, Greektown, Fox Theatre and on and on.”
Which go me thinking “That doesn’t sound like decline to me.” So I looked it up on Wiki. That article also goes on to say:
“In the 1990s, the city began to receive a revival with much of it centered in the Downtown, Midtown, and New Center areas. One Detroit Center (1993) arose on the city skyline. In the ensuing years, three casinos opened: MGM Grand Detroit, Motor City Casino, and Greektown Casino which debuted as resort hotels in 2007–08. New downtown stadiums were constructed for the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Lions in 2000 and 2002, respectively; this put the Lions’ home stadium in the city proper for the first time since 1974. The city also saw the historic Book Cadillac Hotel and the Fort Shelby Hotel reopen for the first time in over 20 years.[26] The city hosted the 2005 MLB All-Star Game, 2006 Super Bowl XL, 2006 World Series, WrestleMania 23 in 2007, and the NCAA Final Four in April 2009 all of which prompted many improvements to the downtown area. In 2011, Detroit Medical Center and Henry Ford Health System substantially increased investments in medical research facilities and hospitals in the city’s Midtown and New Center.[28][29]
The city’s riverfront is the focus of much development following the example of Windsor, Ontario which began its waterfront parkland conversion in the 1990s. In 2001, the first portion (stretching from Joe Louis Arena through Hart Plaza) of the International Riverfront was completed as a part of the city’s 300th anniversary celebration. In succeeding years, the waterfront gained miles of parks and fountains. In 2011, the Port Authority Passenger Terminal opened with the river walk connecting Hart Plaza to the Renaissance Center. This development is a mainstay in the city’s plan to enhance its economy through tourism.[27] Along the river, developers are constructing upscale condominiums such as Watermark Detroit. Some city limit signs, particularly on the Dearborn border say “Welcome to Detroit, The Renaissance City Founded 1701.”[12][26]”
Again, doesn’t sound like decline. So tell me, where am I wrong or do you, like Bob, argue with me just to argue?
I do not argue with you just to argue.
You post, I rebuttal. When you’re clearly wrong I tend to point it out. Like you tend to point out yourself of the headlines you disagreed with.
Who are you trying to kid? You refute everything I post. And you’re nasty about it. You don’t do that with others. Especially those that tend to lean in your same direction even when they post slipshod facts and figures. You have definitely made this personal by insulting me and calling me names. You can pretend like you are just “debating” but debates don’t stoop to your levels, personal attacks do. So save YOUR “backpedaling” for someone who admires and respects you.
Libby-
Like I said, you don’t get it. Most of that is true. It is business who is pumping money into the city, which was in response to your quote “all the Republicans left cause their is no money in Detroit” comment. The Republicans did not leave. They have supported the city. It is the lousy crooked Democrats that have not done their share and stolen the city blind.
There has been plenty of money spent on downtown devleopment. But Detroit is a big city. rea wise it is probably 140 to 150 square miles. Area wise it is large enough to handle 1.9 million or 2.0 million people but it now has 713,770. And while business has spent money on certain areas, which are very nice, There are entire neighborhoods that have been abandoned or might have a family here and there. Since there is no property tax money the police and fire department can’t service the city as large as it is. The money spent on downtown was spent by business and by taxpayers who don’t live in the city. That has nothing to do with the fact that people, who can afford to live elsewhere, don’t want to live in the city. That is why there are only 713,770 residents compared with the 1.85 million in the 50s and early 60s. Today, people drive into the city to work in the morning and drive out in the afternoon. They might, like me,drive into the city to watch a baseball game (beautiful stadium by the way) or may go to the Fox theatre (absolutley beautiful) but they go home, outside the city. The downtown area by the river, Fox district, Greektown are fine to visit and enjoy. But you don’t want to wonder two or three blocks one way or the other unless you know where you are going and or have a gun and preferably a semi auto.
So, for the third or fourth time people don’t want to live in Detroit because there is a high crime rate, abysmal public school system, poor city services including trash, sewer. two thirds of the street lights in the city don’t work, and a corrupt city government with absolutely no desire to change. They are crooked, nincomepoop Democrats who have run it into the ground since the Detroit riots in the late 1960s.
Yes, sir, Sarge! I will never question you again.
Funny that some folks actually believed that IRS would stay out of this Obamacare issue (tragedy would be more correct). Today, my husband’s employer just sent out an email telling us to keep an eye out in the mail for an audit coming from the IRS regarding dependent insurance coverage. It must be filled out and returned by Dec. 31. If it is not returned in time dependents will be dropped from coverage (I find that part weird since we just had open enrollment last month). So much for them staying out of it.
The IRS is going to force your employer to drop your kids from your group medical insurance??? Are you sure you got that right?