Only 15 States Plan to Operate Own Health Insurance Exchanges

December 13, 2012
sebelius

  • December 13, 2012 at 11:18 am
    TheStig says:
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    “Experts say the biggest challenge will likely be providing adequate customer service to handle enrollment and fielding a technology system capable of interfacing seamlessly with the system of each state government.”
    ___________________

    The government providing customer service? That’s hilarious! And we thought the DMV was bad, just wait….

    • December 14, 2012 at 12:27 pm
      FFA says:
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      They will probably shio them jobs to some Mid east Country that hates us.

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    Dave says:
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    Yet another unintended consequence of Obamacare.

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    FFA says:
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    Who couldnt see this coming?

    • December 13, 2012 at 3:57 pm
      Insurance Geek says:
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      …Libby, that’s who….

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Producer #1 says:
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    I wonder, will the Fed Gov’t establish one main exchange, and then provide access to the two thirds of the country that chose to have the Fed Gov’t operate their exchanges… OR will the Fed’s create an individual exchange for each state? I guess a third option could be that the Fed’s could establish regional exchanges. For instance, on TV lately, I have seen commercials with the Gulf State’s Governors. They are all in one commercial working together to promote tourism to the Gulf area. I wonder if exchanges could be set up the same way? Perhaps three states could join together and do it on their own without the Fed’s. Do you know??? Were states given the option to join together in regional exchanges?

    Does anyone have any insight as to how the Fed’s will do this? I suppose it depends on which states may choose to work cooperatively with Uncle Sam.

    • December 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      Unfortunately, I believe those Gulf state commercials were paid for by BP oil.

    • December 13, 2012 at 5:19 pm
      Agent says:
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      If we had several states banding together on the exchanges, wouldn’t that be selling across state lines? That Republican idea was rejected by the administration when they said it is our way or the highway.

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Boca Condo King says:
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    I don’t see a problem, after all the feds do a great job policing our labor markets to make sure that everyone working is in the workforce legally…..

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:48 pm
    AgencyEquity says:
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    A very poorly designed law by some of the most inept politicians.

    • December 13, 2012 at 2:52 pm
      FFA says:
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      I woudl agree 100% if you would eliminate two words from your statement “some of”. As you typed it, I would agree by 99.9%.

  • December 13, 2012 at 2:03 pm
    John says:
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    Doesnt’ this really make you wonder? All the libs state that this is supposed to be great, a win-win for the population and the states, etc. etc. Why then are all these states deferring to the Feds? Could it be that they “finally read the bill” as Pelosi stated. Heard today that there is also a new tax coming down the pike of $63.00 per group and individual policy. This additional tax was not even in the bill.

    • December 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm
      Doubting Thomas says:
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      Actually, I think it was in the bill, but there was no amount of $ set until HHS dreamed it up out of the air. Well, at least we will know the root cause of the Great Depression II.

    • December 13, 2012 at 2:53 pm
      FFA says:
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      Again I ask, who could not see that coming?

    • December 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      I agree John, but I think the $63 extra charge is “per head” on a Group or Individual policy. They have to pay for all those PreX people with it. We had to pass this bill so we could see what was in it. Legal scholars cannot make sense of it and our politicians didn’t read it before voting on it. Now, several Democratic Senators want the Medical Device Tax removed because it might harm that industry. I think they were lobbied and lined their pockets to try to get it removed.

  • December 13, 2012 at 2:10 pm
    Ruminator says:
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    I suppose this will go at least as well as social security

    • December 13, 2012 at 2:58 pm
      PM says:
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      Really? I thought most liked Social Security before the govt officials began stealing from it. I think this could go over like the Titanic’s first voyage. Only they have to find people happy to pay prior to setting sail.

      • December 13, 2012 at 4:10 pm
        Agent says:
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        We have LBJ to thank for moving the Trust Fund to the General Fund to pay for the “War on Poverty”. Way to go Democrats. We have more in poverty than ever before and give food stamps out like candy. Now, we have to raise the age limit again to keep it going. It should have been hands off Social Security for the politicians, but they couldn’t resist stealing from us and making the Fund insolvent in a few short years.

  • December 13, 2012 at 2:42 pm
    Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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    Anyone want to bet that the Exchanges won’t be open and operating by October 2013, and that the blame will lie with the Republicans???
    Most medical insurers are state specific or regional within a state and contract with networks of doctors. I cannot understand how the government thinks they can put all this together in 10 months. How long ago did they start bickering about the budget and this fiscal cliff and now we are down to the deadline? One year?
    No way this is ready to go in October.

    • December 13, 2012 at 2:55 pm
      FFA says:
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      Its ready to go now – to the shreeder that is.

    • December 14, 2012 at 9:43 am
      Thunder says:
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      “…that the blame will lie with the Republicans???” The Dems will spin and twist the blame until it comes out as “George Bush!”

  • December 13, 2012 at 4:00 pm
    Rusty says:
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    Yup. Our government has created another boondoggle that we working peoiple will be paying for. (And Obama claims he’d not increase taxes on the middle class.) It seems that with all the problems so far, even before the act is fully effective, and the miniscule 10 month period in which to get the program going (can teh gov’t really do that?) and once insurers find they cannot comply with all the new regulations or will go out of business because all the profit is taken out of it, the original intent of the law will become a reality – single (government) payor healthcare with all the restrictions and costs that will, of necessity, entail. We’ll all be herded into the program like cattle so we can line up for our minute with a doctor.

    • December 13, 2012 at 4:12 pm
      Agent says:
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      Where will the seniors and Medicaid people go for treatment? They will just have some doc in a box places to go and PA’s will act like doctors. Sorry, we are out of luck on this.

      • December 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Agent you are right. Just think, your 85 year old mother sitting in a dank county health ward next to a pimp/drug dealer driving a lowered Cadillac with gold teeth. She is trying to get to a doctor for help and all he wants is make sure he don’t have HIV this week. You will end up with healthcare that sucks for all.

        • December 26, 2012 at 4:58 pm
          Agent says:
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          Sargent, I saw an email picture the other day of Obama leaning over to a senior citizen lady. He said Sorry, your hip replacement is not covered, but you do get free birth control coverage. That is real important to all the senior ladies out there, don’t you agree?

    • December 17, 2012 at 2:59 pm
      Ins Guy says:
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      He’ll just say you can blame the supreme court for that. It wasn’t a tax until they defined it as such to make it constitutional. KMA John Roberts.

  • December 13, 2012 at 4:16 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    I hope they don’t let Senator Robert Menendez D- NJ be the hiring manager for all the new government employees that will be needed. He is the New Jersey Senator who hired and illegal alien who was also a sex offender to work in his Senate office. Think about the customer service you might get from that group!

  • December 13, 2012 at 4:25 pm
    wvagt says:
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    As predicted, this is one boondoggle after another and it hasn’t even taken full effect yet. And yet the Dems still claim it will lower costs. I read somewhere earlier today that an executive from Aetna predicted that their premiums will double within a fairly short time. States that don’t get sucked into creating exchanges are making a wise choice, realizing that costs will only increase down the road. What happens then? You guessed it, higher state taxes.

    • December 14, 2012 at 11:57 am
      Agent says:
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      Hey wvagt, How is your air up there? Some of the Progressive bloggers are saying you can cut it with a knife due to all that dirty coal you are belching into the air. The only place I know of that has a problem is Beijing, China who is adding coal fired plants at a record pace to create energy they need. When I watched the Greenbriar Classic golf tournament, I noticed no haze or any issue with the air up there. I bet you really love the EPA coming up there to shut things down. Has Manchin ever come out of hiding now that the election is over?

      • December 14, 2012 at 2:28 pm
        wvagt says:
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        Our air is crisp, clean, and cool this week, thank you very much. I guarantee it’s a lot cleaner than what you find in Baltimore, Philly, New York, and Boston. We’re not the ones spilling pollution into the air – the EPA has seen to that by shutting down most of the old coal power plants, and the rest will go soon. All the garbage in the air is coming directly from DC to the northeast. Manchin shows up occasionally, but he’s not really much help in throttling EPA. Our good news is that Jay Rockefeller has some serious competition in 2014 from Rep. Shelley Moore Capito. Electing her would give 2 benefits – she’d be great as a Senator, and Rockefeller would be gone.

        • December 14, 2012 at 2:44 pm
          Agent says:
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          That’s music to my ears wvagt. We have strip mining down here in Texas with giant draglines. They are environmentally friendly and have to restore the land after they extract the coal. I hope you do get rid of Rockefeller. That whole family going way back were elitist RINO’s and the state should change them out. You couldn’t get rid of the KKK Byrd until he died. Those people are hard to get rid of, aren’t they?

          • December 14, 2012 at 4:35 pm
            Nebraskan says:
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            Agent, how do you know all of this stuff? Seriously? Whatever school you attended is where I want my daughter to go.

          • December 14, 2012 at 5:44 pm
            Agent says:
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            Nebraskan, I know you wouldn’t recommend it for your daughter since we had a very big rivalry, but the University of Oklahoma. We had some pretty big games against one another, especially during the Switzer/Osborn era. Now that you are in the Big 10, perhaps you won’t be antagonistic toward the Sooners. I have always paid attention to things on the national scene as well. I am Conservative and proud of it and graduated with an Economics degree. That is why I have to give it to Libby & Planet when they make uninformed comments on the economy and our Constitutional Republic.

          • December 17, 2012 at 8:55 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 18, 2012 at 8:58 am
            Nebraskan says:
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            I never had beef with Oklahoma! I loved that rivalry. I will only have a problem with my girl if she attends Colorado. I cannot stand Colorado. And probably Missouri and Kansas and Kansas State. :) Other than those four, I think I can handle it.

  • December 13, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Bonzo says:
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    News Flash! This means two-thirds of the states are essentially saying “nuts” to Obamacare. The reality is that once Obamacare fully kicks in in 2014, it will drag the economy into the abyss. The good news here – Obama will own it.

    • December 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      I think he will blame George Bush. Why not, the morons that voted for him will probably believe it.

    • December 15, 2012 at 7:43 am
      Doubting Thomas says:
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      When we are all living out Healthcare Boondoggle/Depression II, Obammy will be living in his Hawaiian mansion and not really caring what happens to the middle class.

    • December 17, 2012 at 10:19 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, My New Year’s wish is that you and Planet sign up for Econ 101 at your local university and learn all about the merits of Capitalism and how bad Socialism and liberal Keynsian economics are for this country. They have been an abysmal failure everywhere in the world and you and Planet keep trumpeting how great they are. $16 Trillion debt, annual $1.4 Trillion deficit, fiscal cliff fast approaching. Hey, we need to spend even more to right the wrongs, right?

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:07 am
      Agent says:
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      Thanks Nebraskan. OU does have more National Merit Scholars than all the other Big 12 schools so they are very good academically as well. I agree on Colorado which will make Libby mad. I can only imagine the cloud of marijuana hanging over that campus after Colorado voted to legalize.

      By the way, the Cotton Bowl will probably be the best bowl game this year with OU playing Texas A & M. It may be another of those 50-49 games with the offenses that these two teams possess.

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:09 am
        Libby says:
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        I’m not mad. The more people that stay away from Colorado, the better it is for all the people that live there! We have enough Texans and Californians invading every year. And Nebraskans, too.

      • December 19, 2012 at 11:41 am
        Nebraskan says:
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        I genuinely didn’t realize Libby has an affiliation with Colorado. That’s not why I said that. I actually enjoyed Denver when I went to visit a couple of years ago. I was speaking specifically to their University and their punk A___ fans that don’t understand sportsmanship, nor seem to understand much about sports, to be honest. And while I do agree the Cotton Bowl will be a good game, I like a good defense more than I like an explosive offense. I would rather watch a game that ends in a score of 10-7 any day rather than a shoot-out. And after Columbine shootings and the movie theater shootings, maybe the marijuana will do Colorado some good. They need to chill out.

        • December 19, 2012 at 11:53 am
          Libby says:
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          LOL! I’ll admit, that was funny. But don’t judge Coloradans by the acts of those 3 guys. 2 weren’t even from Colorado! We’re all pretty mellow most of the time, with or without the ganja.

  • December 13, 2012 at 4:58 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    I find it interesting that even the states that are “Obama” Blue states have said no such as, how about this- Ohio, New Jersey, Florida, Michigan, California,,,. Gee, now why do you suppose they don’t want a healthcare exchange after bragging about the approval of Obozocare and beating their chests that Obama won and it is a mandate to accept Obozocare. Really?

    • December 19, 2012 at 1:24 pm
      Insurance Chick says:
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      Heyyyy NJ has a Republican Governor and we already have a great insurance system so leave NJ alone!!! You can take Melendez back to Colorado and get him high enough to forget his way home. Guy wasn’t actually elected, he was appointed but see, once you get in, you never get out!!

      • December 21, 2012 at 10:05 am
        Agent says:
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        I agree that Christie is an upgrade over the very crooked Corzine. He was corrupt in office and then goes out and bilks his investors to the tune of $1.2 Billion and doesn’t seem to know where all the money went. Is he in jail for this? Perhaps some of that money went into the Obama campaign war chest since he was a big bundler.

    • December 19, 2012 at 2:01 pm
      Libby says:
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      Sarge – They are not saying they do not want an exchange. They are saying they don’t want to be responsible for creating it. Big difference.

  • December 13, 2012 at 5:07 pm
    Center Point says:
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    • December 13, 2012 at 5:23 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      They don’t call it Taxachusetts for nothing.

    • December 13, 2012 at 5:32 pm
      FFA says:
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      $63.00 piled on top of everything else. This is just another – not quite a hundred piled on top of all the other just a hundreds, but its not a grand – soon to be well its just over a grand but not 2500 so, but wait, this company just folded so we need to kick it to $72.00 and how did that illegal get through the system we have to pay for anyways – kind of scam being pulled on everyone.

      • December 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        FFA- yes, I agree. The 63.00 “fee”- tax is suppose to fade out in 3 years unless the fed government extends it in order to fund a shortfall. Anyone want to bet this will be extended forever unless it is repealed?

        • December 13, 2012 at 5:54 pm
          Agent says:
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          So if it is $63 per head and you had a 100 employee group, my math says it is $6,300 addditional on the premium. If you have an Individual policy with wife and three kids, it is additional of $252. Doesn’t sound like much, but if you are a cash strapped family like a lot are, you have to try to find that money and take away from something else. Employers may say they can’t absorb it so they pass it on to the employee. This whole bill is a nightmare of biblical proportions and more and more will come out on it that is detrimental to the citizens.

        • December 13, 2012 at 6:05 pm
          FFA says:
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          And when does anythng the Govt hits us with ever fade out? They will need way more the $63.00 to cover shortfalls.

  • December 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm
    FFA says:
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    Is it $63.00 a year per employee or per person? Or is that Monthly?

    • December 13, 2012 at 6:09 pm
      Agent says:
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      See my above post FFA.

  • December 14, 2012 at 9:07 am
    ComradeAnon says:
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    • December 18, 2012 at 10:11 am
      Agent says:
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      Comrade, your name fits you perfectly. Your comment makes as much sense as some of Planet’s. You are living in a parallel universe, not ours.

    • December 21, 2012 at 4:08 pm
      kbelli says:
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      IKR! Agent didn’t even know that states can cooperate to form regional exchanges!

  • December 14, 2012 at 10:13 am
    TxLady says:
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    Libby and Captain Planet are strangely silent. Perhaps on vacation as I was anxiously awaiting input from them on why this is all so great.
    On the bright side, just think of all the new employees that the feds can hire for this. Bet that 107 a day new fed employees will go way up. Too bad it won’t come close to evening out the job losses this boondoogle of a law has caused.

  • December 14, 2012 at 10:24 am
    draetish says:
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    This is Obama’s way of bringing new jobs and lowering the unemployment rate, LMAO! What a joke, I think I’ll get me one of those govt jobs.

    • December 14, 2012 at 10:48 am
      Agent says:
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      Sorry draetish, you are over qualified for any of the government jobs they are creating. First, you have to swear allegiance to the Messiah and on your test, if your IQ is not in the 50-60 range, you are too smart to hold the position and therefore disqualified from consideration.

  • December 14, 2012 at 11:54 am
    Libby says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    My name is on everyone’s lips. I love it. Well, folks, here goes. If the state’s would rather have the Feds run their exchange, that’s their perogative. But don’t come crying that you don’t like how it’s being run later on. This decision only gets us a few steps closer to single-payer, which I happen to think is a great idea. The people I talk to from U.K. and France have nothing but good things to say about the care they receive.

    • December 14, 2012 at 12:11 pm
      FFA says:
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      We are crying now about how its going to be run. Single payor system? I thought our economy was based on competition. Did I miss the memo we are going to a monopolistic economy?

      • December 14, 2012 at 12:14 pm
        Producer #1 says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        The whole point of the exchange is to create a market place where health ins companies can compete within the system. So, I miss your point FFA… where is the monopolistic features of Obamacare?
        Sure, I will grant you that the exchange is a regulated marketplace… but that is true accross the board in the insurance industry.

        • December 18, 2012 at 1:51 pm
          FFA says:
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          Does the agency system not do that already?

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            They wanted it on-line with easy access and easily understood outlines. If you can do that, then yes, the agency system does that. So go out and do it! Is individual health insurance a very profitable line? I’m in commercial lines, so don’t know.

          • December 18, 2012 at 6:09 pm
            FFA says:
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            People can already go online and get quotes.
            Individual will be all thats selling because no one will want group.

      • December 14, 2012 at 12:16 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Not everything needs to be a comptetitive business. Social Security and Medicare are not. And the only complaint I hear about those is there may not be any when it’s time for me to get mine…

        • December 14, 2012 at 12:19 pm
          FFA says:
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          Single Payor implies no cmpetition.

          • December 14, 2012 at 12:20 pm
            Producer #1 says:
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            FFA,,, but Obamacare is not a single payer system? The exchanges will work with insurance companies and the exchanges are supposed to have a competitive feature.

          • December 14, 2012 at 1:16 pm
            FFA says:
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            Also, what is my role as agent in this mess? Am I still involved with the sales process? Not that it would be worth the time for me to sell it due to the commission scale being pounded down forcing revenues out of my agency that I used to have to pay for the full time empoyee that I no longer have.

          • December 14, 2012 at 1:22 pm
            Libby says:
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            All agents I know have gone to a flat charge per employee for benefits revenue. If the employee base goes up, you get a raise, if not, a bump down. You might consider doing that and getting the carrier to quote net of commission.

          • December 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            Problem with that is I advertise no agency fees. I pull lots of new business due to that as some of my peers fee their clients just like OBama wants to tax the small business.
            One of my new biz clients asked stated ” who the hell do they think they are charging fees like this- OBama?”
            They were feeing him $25.00 per cert issued on top of any Add Ins fees.
            So, thats not an option for me

          • December 14, 2012 at 1:32 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            You may need to change your marketing strategy. Do these agencies charge a fee on top of commission? That is illegal in many states. In those states you may only charge a fee or commission. A fee in lieu of commission is not necessarily a bad thing. Large commercial accounts have been doing it for years and the agent usually makes less than they would with commission. But you put a service contract into place outlining what you will do for the fee (loss control, claim reviews, training, etc.) and if they want more (TPA selection, COI review, more training), then they pay for it. It’s no different than doctors getting paid a fee for service. Smart clients know you aren’t working for “free” and they will ask how much revenue you are making on their account and what are you doing to earn it? Just placing insurance is not enough these days.

          • December 14, 2012 at 1:39 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Larger accounts end up being less work for more money. In the Colorado agencies I worked for, a producer would not even get paid for bringing in a $5,000 account. Revenue would have to be over $5,000 for them to get paid. In the end, it’s smart business.

            Also, fee for service does not leave you victim to the whims of the carrier about commission levels. You can offer value to your client and still make money.

            There’s alot to being a independent agent. It has great opportunity, but it’s totally different than being with a direct writer. You have to change your way of thinking.

            I worked with many direct writers agnets going independent and they had no idea the kinds of things you can do to generate revenue. I helped them with the expertise and many of them are quite successful. Including a life/securites broker that purchased a P&C agency without a clue about P&C. He now has opened 2 branch offices.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:05 pm
            FFA says:
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            The fees my peers charge are on top of commissions. Talked to one of my reps about that very issue and he told me that I am one of the last that do not fee things. Some of my peers charge Market Research fees for shopping it to other carriers.
            The way I view feees is its just another kick in the croch to the small business owner. We are talking about the P&C side.
            Had Quinn reformed comp to the point where my specialty carrier would have hung around and my health premiums gone balistic, I would not have had to put someone on the unemployment line and been able to stay on top of my wifes hospital bills and probably had my surgery done.
            Between losing my specialty and my health premiums skyrocketing, that was an $40K swing in revenues. Lost $500K in volume because of Quinn. Pile on top all my commercial guys that had to fold … Glad 2012 is going to be in the rear view mirror.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Yeah, I’m not a big fan of 2012, either. But we are on to better days, FFA. I just know it!

        • December 14, 2012 at 12:22 pm
          FFA says:
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          Good point Libby. The Fed Govt has not got the job done with that. Why on earth should I think they would be capable of managing this properly?

          Listen to doctors about Medicare / Medicaid. Not getting paid. How can they stay in busines if they are not getting paid?

          • December 14, 2012 at 12:25 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Considering the depth and scope of both programs, they are doing a pretty good job. The fact they are underfunded does not take away from the benefit of the progam itself.

          • December 17, 2012 at 1:04 pm
            FFA says:
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            No. It just takes more money out of my pocket.

          • December 17, 2012 at 1:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            You must not be doing too bad, after all, if you’re making over $250k a year.

          • December 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            Me? No way $250K a year. Lucky if I get half of that this year.

          • December 17, 2012 at 3:12 pm
            Ins Guy says:
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            Actually, talk to your parents. YOu’ll find the Drs. aren’t going out of business. They’re re-tooling their business model and not accepting -care/-caid patients. Mine are now having trouble finding a new Dr. in their shrinking market.

          • December 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm
            Libby says:
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            My mother’s doctor is fairly young and has no plans to change her practice.

          • December 17, 2012 at 5:09 pm
            FFA says:
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            I had a group with 5 locations that are gone. Each had 2 doct, 1 rn and additional support staff (cns / lp ect…). I believe they left IL and headed west as the Mal Practice was killing them.
            Maybe its just Il having issues with Docts. There have been several that have left the state.

    • December 17, 2012 at 1:08 pm
      jw says:
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      It is pretty flattering to realize everyone is waiting on your comments.

      • December 17, 2012 at 1:10 pm
        Libby says:
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        It gives them something to do. Gang up on Libby and thumb her down! LOL! They’re pretty predictable.

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:28 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, Perhaps the practice came to Texas where Malpractice rates are less and we had Tort Reform. Doctors have flocked to Texas in recent years. That leaves the Blue states with a serious shortage, but they did it to themselves. I certainly don’t blame them for leaving Illinois where everything is against them on taxes to Malpractice rates to getting sued for big time awards.

        • December 18, 2012 at 10:30 am
          Libby says:
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          But then you have to live in Texas…

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:12 am
            Agent says:
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            Right Libby, We love it here and by the way, very few ever move back north if they move here. There has to be a good reason for that. You have to ask yourself why many northern blue states are losing population and southern red states are gaining population and creating jobs.

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:26 am
            Libby says:
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            I don’t know, Agent. Colorado has it’s share of relocated Texans. And they aren’t going back! It’s a beautiful state with lots of opportunity and natural resources. It is neither blue nor red, but purple. And we like it that way!

    • December 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm
      John says:
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      Libby: They have nothing to compare it to. That is one reason that they think it is so great. In addition, they don’t mind the higher tax rates. As someone who has lived under both systems I can tell you that both of the systems used in England and France are terrible. There are people over there that die from things that we treat as routine. And yes, I did live there for a number of years.

      • December 17, 2012 at 2:00 pm
        Libby says:
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        I’ll take your word for it, John. But we are far from that system here in America. I know some folks on this blog would like you to think we are minutes from a system like that, we are not. This is still the greatest country in the world and we will continue to be.

        • December 17, 2012 at 2:32 pm
          FFA says:
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          Far from that system? We are 12 months away from it.

          • December 17, 2012 at 2:41 pm
            Libby says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • December 17, 2012 at 5:14 pm
            FFA says:
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            I wish once was enough. I am having a real hard time wrapping my head around all 4 feet of paperwork. Was a chore learning the taxxes that are going to crush my clients. Now I need to learn the taxxes that are going to crush me. Then I’ll move on to the actual health care.
            The 4 feet of paperwork was my first objection. Too Much. Too fast. Too soon.
            I’m an old dog. New tricks are hard to learn.

          • December 18, 2012 at 8:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • December 18, 2012 at 10:39 am
            FFA says:
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            So, in P&C terms, the exchange is basicly a Quick Rater run by the Govt. The carriers that exist already will participate. Then Govt paid employees will assist the client in the application process.

            This subsidy you spoeak of will be funded by this large amount of new taxxes hitting me – the small business man, me personally.

          • December 18, 2012 at 10:52 am
            Libby says:
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            I have asked both you and Agent to tell me, specifically, which of these new taxes will affect your business. Both of you have ignored my question and refused to answer. So I’ll ask again. Which tax will directly affect your business? The tax on medical device manufacturers? The tax on capital gains? The cap on flex spending? The 2.5% increase on medical deduction threshold? The tanning booth tax? The 40% tax on “Cadillac Health Insurance”? Will any of these taxes directly affect your business? You already told me your business will not make over $250k, so that doesn’t apply. You will not be affected anymore than I am and that is by the changes in flex spending and medical deductions.

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:26 am
            FFA says:
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            The $63.00 per head to start with. The Cap gain when I go to sell. I seem to remember a sales tax on houses.
            Not taxxes, but my inability to limit Corp Officers to my plan. My inabiity to keep my current existing waiting peroid as long as I have it at right now. This is forcing me to go to a part time work force

            More importantly, the increase in competition from the govt. My inability to comepete. why would anyone come to me when I get a Commish and the govt dont? I am supporting 7 people right now. I dont need any more competition.

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:28 am
            Libby says:
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            They would come to you for the same reason they come to you now. Your expertise. If you sell on price, you will lose on price. You have something they don’t have. Knowledge. And people WILL pay for it.

        • December 18, 2012 at 12:01 pm
          FFA says:
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          I get used all the time for information. They pick my brain, get all the information they need for an informed decision and then go down the road and by the cheapest thing around.

          • December 18, 2012 at 12:14 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, In my younger years, I got the run around from prospects all the time. They say they would like a quote on their business, I would jump through hoops to come up with something better and then they would stay where they were when the agent said they could match it. If they could, why didn’t they have a better deal on the expiring coverage? The worst ones are the ones that shop every year from several agents. I stopped fooling with them since it is just a bidding war and you can lose it for a dollar. I don’t do this for practice anymore so I prefer to work with clients who trust me and tell the others no thanks.

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm
            Libby says:
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            Exactly, Agent. I hate it when someone says their “shopping” for a quote. If you want to work with me, I will find you the best product at the best price and will back it up with all-star service. If you’re not prepared to make a move, don’t waste my time. With these new exchanges, FFA, you could probably make a charge up front for the work. That gives them the option of going anywhere for the coverage and you don’t have to worry about commissions. Fee for service. That’s where it’s at.

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            I didnt’ finish my thought. You don’t “shop” for a doctor or a lawyer or a CPA. My professional services are no different.

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:56 pm
            FFA says:
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            Fee for service – is that not what a commission is?

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:09 pm
            Libby says:
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            No. A commission is a percentage of premium given in exchange for the sale. It is paid to you by the insurance carrier for placing business with them. A fee for service is paid by the customer and is transparent and not hidden in the premium. Coverage is written net of commission. Having your income not tied to the premium amount assures the client you are not “steering” their business in order to line your own pocket or overselling them to increase your revenue. They can choose the services they want to pay for and not pay for the ones they don’t need (basic brokerage services, loss control, claims, consulting, contract review, etc.) It is a much cleaner and professional way of doing business and many of the large brokerage houses are going to fee for service on the majority of their business. Usually on large commercial accounts and benefits accounts.

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:23 pm
            Agent says:
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            Had I charged a fee for service in the past 35 years with all the quotes I have done, I would be a 1%er and subject to the higher taxes Obama wants to charge. I have had a lot of people ask me for advice on insurance coverage or how to handle issues with claims etc. I should have charged them as well. You can’t say hello to an Attorney or CPA or a doctor without being billed for it. Why should agents be any different? We are Professionals and licensed. Some of my buddies that have asked me questions recently have been told to ask their agents. They stopped asking.

  • December 14, 2012 at 12:02 pm
    Expert Novice says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    I’ve seen quotes in some articles from people who seem puzzled why politicians who favor states’ rights would refuse to set up an exchange under Obamacare. If the feds came to you and said “we’ll give you two options: 1) we can punch you in the face or 2) you can punch yourself in the face, would you be exercising states’ rights by choosing the option to punch yourself in the face? Both options are “do what we tell you to do,” so they both grow the power of the federal government.

    • December 14, 2012 at 12:06 pm
      Producer #1 says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Bad analogy Expert Novice. I am sure you have fun saying it, but its not accurate.

      • December 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm
        Agent says:
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        Ungfortunately for us Libby, the taxes are kicking in on 1-1-13 for this wonderful new entitlement program. The rates on existing policies are also increasing with each passing month. Blue Cross just announced a massive increase of up to 30% in California. This is the law of unintended consequences and the name of this bill is not the Affordable Care Act. It should be re-named the Unaffordable Care Act.

        • December 17, 2012 at 3:07 pm
          Libby says:
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          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • December 18, 2012 at 12:03 pm
            FFA says:
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            What has been the end result of Govt Intrusion into private business in all they years of your life and insurance experience?

    • December 18, 2012 at 11:39 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, How many times do we have to tell you about the avalanche of new taxes coming out in January that will adversely affect all small businesses? I am tired of informing you each and every time since you don’t get it. When small businesses continue to suffer at the hands of government, they either close down or cut way back. The agent either has no customers or the ones he does have shrink in front of their eyes. Our commissions go way down. How is that for affecting our business? Ask FFA how many of his clients have closed down in the past year due to the economy and what is going on?

      • December 18, 2012 at 11:45 am
        Libby says:
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        An “avalanche” of taxes is not an answer. In another post, I listed all the taxes and asked, specifically, which would directly affect your business. And the answer is none.

        The fact that the economy is not doing well, has nothing to do with the taxes that have not even gone into effect yet. And I understand how that affects business. But that was not the question. The question was which, specifically, of these new taxes will directly impact your business. Again, the answer is none.

        You can not “explain” something to me that isn’t true, Agent.

        • December 18, 2012 at 3:20 pm
          Agent says:
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          The taxes have been shown to you on a number of occasions Libby and it goes in one ear and out the other. I don’t have the time and energy to keep posting them to you. Now that Bob is back on the blog, perhaps he will read you chapter and verse once again. These new taxes have consequences and business will suffer.

          • December 19, 2012 at 8:21 am
            Libby says:
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            As usual, a non-answer answer from you Agent. I expected as much. You stick to your facts and I’ll stick to mine. Consequences and ramifications aside, none of these taxes DIRECTLY affect your business.

        • December 21, 2012 at 4:27 pm
          kbelli says:
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          LOL

          But Libby, an AVALANCHE. Of TAXES. A literal avalanche of taxes! We’re down here in TX buying up radio beacons so people can dig us out after the avalanche hits us!

          Didn’t you know?? It’s an avalanche!

          • December 21, 2012 at 6:02 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Kbelli, don’t expect Libby to go along with you. She is right and we are all wrong or mean spirited, bigoted or racist. We are part of the vast right wing conspiracy trying to stymie her President from accomplishing his goal to destroy America in his second term. He had a good start in his first term and now he wants us to lean forward because he isn’t finished yet.

  • December 14, 2012 at 1:20 pm
    FFA says:
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    Again I ask, why is Obama and all of congress not subject to this? Not good enough for him and his family but just fine for mine and yours?

    • December 14, 2012 at 1:27 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      The federal government has their own program already in place. Just like my employer has their plan already in place. Their plans are not changing. This has to do with people that are currently uninsured and employers over 50 and not currently offering benefits.

      FFA, it would be good if you did a little brushing up on the bullet points of Obamacare. I’ve already shown you where it will benefit you and your family and you still rail against it without having the facts.

      • December 14, 2012 at 1:44 pm
        FFA says:
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        I brushed up on the taxxes. I have a handfull of clients that are going to get crushed on the Inheritance Tax.
        With the health of my parents fading almost daily now, I have been pounding the Long Term Care rider feature. Getting very positive feed back especially on Long Term Care rider. If I dont generate $50K in life premiums in the 1st 2 months of 2013, I could consider my self the worst Life Sales agent there is.

        Beside Libby, who has the time to sit there and not only read, but understand it all? 4 feet of paperwork? Quality of my life sucks right now (lots to do with trying to deal with the fact this is my last xmass with my mom & dad) and I am going to spend more time trying to figure this out?
        Its best I just dropp the entire line out of my product fold until I deplete the Inhertiance Tax issue and the Long Term Care issue. I have not even had a conversation about group health prospect since this thing hit the law books.
        God knows I am going to have a mess come time to settle the estate. Looking like we let the houses go to foreclosure and Bk what left.

        • December 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, I keep seeing these ads on TV touting Reverse Mortgages as a way for seniors to have income from equity in their home. I don’t know if it is a scam or not, but they seem to have a lot of advertising bucks.

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm
            FFA says:
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            Some jack ass loan officer refied them back in 2010. They owe about $500,000 on a house that at best will appraise under $400,000.
            At the peak of the market, it would have appraised about $650-$700K. Market peaked way before 2010.

            Should I lay out what I know to the States Attorney office, My brother (I am one of 5 boys, 1 sis) and sis in law would be doing 6 – 12 years for financial fraud against a Senior Citizen. The numbers are huge what they embezelled. The rest of my siblings want to to push forward with charges. Sure, lets put that on my plate too. None of them would do it – make court – see it through to the bitter end. I have the documents. I know where many of the pennies went. I would assist, but I am not taking the lead.

            I know several people who had to go reverse mortgage to make ends meet. When you have a substantial amount of equity, they work just fine.

            Some people tell me Kardashians be damned, put me on Reality TV. Of course, so much crap flys in my life, no one would believe it.

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, Wow! You do have a lot on your plate. About the time you get one thing handled, something else pops up. I feel very blessed to not have to face the issues you are having. I do feel for you and wish you the very best and hope you have a very Merry Christmas. That is not politically correct and I am sure someone will pop up and down thumb me, but I mean it. Go Bears!

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:40 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Merry Christmas, Agent. And you, too, FFA.

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:53 pm
            FFA says:
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            Thanks to both of you and back at ya both.

            I’ll be watching the Bears game with my dad so that will be good.
            I arranged santa to make an appearance at the big Family Party. He was very happy about that.
            One thing I am looking forward to is New Years Eve at my lake. No parents to worry about, no scamming brother, no political BS. Being told the bar is going to re open after being closed down in April. Good friends, family, good music and a never ending supply of Crown Royal. I’ve known these people since I was in diapers, so just a lot of walks down memory lane. Did I mention a whole lot of booze?

      • December 14, 2012 at 4:39 pm
        FFA says:
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        Then why dont they roll that out to the general population?

    • December 14, 2012 at 4:27 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, they knew what was being foisted onto the American People so they made sure they had their Cadillac blue chip coverage and screw the serfs out there.

  • December 14, 2012 at 3:28 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “Not everything needs to be a comptetitive business. Social Security and Medicare are not. And the only complaint I hear about those is there may not be any when it’s time for me to get mine…”

    Libby, that is one of the problems with Social Security, medicare, medicaid. They are run by a bloated, inefficient government processes and which not have to worry about efficiency and costs. I add the US post office as the model of inefficent, bloated cost government as well. Additionaly, is anyone happy with the service they recieve from a government program? Other than those that pay nothing and get something like Medicaid, welfare, free cell phones, wic etc? Businss competition would fix many of the issues including the funding. If Social Security had been privitized the money placed into the trust could not be touched. Unlike the federal government which steals from social security all the time. The same will happen with Obamacare, It will not save any money, be bloated with costs, run by inept costly federal employees and customer service and patient care will be abysmal.
    The only thing needed for business to run this is better guidelines where the needy can get healthcare while the deadbeats and illegals are broomed out of it and sent home to either their home country or home to get a job. There will to much fraud otherwise.

  • December 14, 2012 at 3:32 pm
    FFA says:
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    “The only thing needed for business to run this is better guidelines where the needy can get healthcare while the deadbeats and illegals are broomed out of it and sent home to either their home country or home to get a job. There will to much fraud otherwise.”
    You for got tort reform.

    • December 14, 2012 at 3:35 pm
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • December 14, 2012 at 3:59 pm
        FFA says:
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        Its like Mick & the boys singing Satisfaction – You know its going to happen at every show and you know every word.

    • December 14, 2012 at 3:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      I’m with you FFA. Tort Reform should have been in there, but wasn’t and look at the mess we have now.

      • December 14, 2012 at 4:18 pm
        FFA says:
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        A family at my lake house I grew up with, all three kids are lawyers. One is a senator in Springfeild. He is lined up for a run at the gov seat.

        One night sitting on the boat and having a few (to many maybe) coctails, the avaition attorney chimes in that we should have the English System of tort in place. You sue me, you lose you pay every penny of my defense as well as any cost to resotre my reputation / lost wages and any other expense that I incurred. The other two agreed.
        I was shocked!

    • December 14, 2012 at 7:53 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      FFA- A great addition!!

      • December 17, 2012 at 2:29 pm
        FFA says:
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        Not my addition – three lawyers – 2 that depend on Law Suites for thier living. One that looks for ways to not pay insurance claims.

    • December 18, 2012 at 10:35 am
      Agent says:
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      FFA, If the government’s goal was to get Healthcare for the 30 Million uninsured, why not just create Pools for all those PreX people and low cost coverage for them instead of forcing the entire population into one size fits all? Texas has a Pool for people that can’t get it in the regular market. Instead, we have a system about to kick in that will basically finish the country off financially. Great Britain here we come.

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:39 am
        Libby says:
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        Forcing people into a pool is a one-size-fits-all solution. This bill allows them to shop and compare plans through the exchange and purchase the plan that is best for them. It’s still a free market enterprise, where the carrier offering the best plan for the best price wins. It will ultimately lower pricing for everyone. We know that about states that track auto insurance v. states that do not. More people are insured and the prices go down. I think you are talking out of your hat, Agent.

        • December 18, 2012 at 11:10 am
          FFA says:
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          One thing I can tell you for sure is that premiums dont come down. That is close to 25 years of experience speaking. When Il went to mandatory auto insurance, rates went up. So I dont count on premiums going down as he did not address the underlying factors that drive the cost.

          Even if premiums come down, will that be enough to offset the increase in taxxes? If not, everyone loses including the uninsured. They wont be able to afford the increase in taxxes and the premiums.

          Without addressing the forces that drive the cost, cheaper preiums are a pipe dream.

          Seems like there are enough states with a Pre X plan in place.

          If the exchanges are run by Govt employees, that cuts me the agent out of the picture. It limits my ability to earn therefore reducing my ability to pay taxxes.

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:23 am
            Libby says:
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            It doesn’t reduce your ability to earn. If you can sell yourself as a better alternative to an exchange, there is nothing that prevents you from selling. Instead of throwing up your hands, you need to use it as an opportunity. Really. How well do you think the exchanges will do with customer service and portability? This is a prime opportunity for you to market yourself as a personal exchange. After all, that’s what Independent Agents are. I thought you got fired up about everything when you got back from Phoenix. Now you’re right back to having a defeatist attitude. That needs to change for you to be successful, FFA. You can do it!

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:04 pm
            FFA says:
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            I am fired up. I have a large amount of Life Premiums to close after the 1st of the year. Thats going to get to Canada in addition to Marco Island this year. Strategy is to hit the High Earner Clients with the ability to pay high premiums on Life policies. 1) Cover the additional estate taxxes. 2) Sell LTC Rider on the life policies (personal experience). Valid plans being well received.

            Now, I am trying to find the opportunity for the health care. Opened my BCBS Statement today I have one group left. My Commission on that group 5 Employee Only and 3 family units – $90.00. Thats it. Aside from charging Agency fees, what else can I do to bump that number up to when I was making I think it was 8% on that same group?

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:13 pm
            Libby says:
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            You can’t be all things to all people, FFA. Most successful producers have niched their business. If health insurance is not a money maker, don’t sell it. Spend the time learning more about other coverages instead. I think Cyber Liability is a great product to research and sell. Hardly anyone has it and almost everyone needs it. You could lead in with that and end up with the whole account.

        • December 18, 2012 at 12:25 pm
          Agent says:
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          What an uninformed reply? Remember when your President said dozens of times that if you like your Healthcare insurance, you can keep it? A good part of America is not keeping it due to rate increases and the advent of Obamacare with all its new taxes on the horizen. Business is either dropping their coverage or changing it drastically to try to afford it. There isn’t going to be competition because all the carriers are raising the premiums. It may come down to who has the least rate increase at the time. Premiums are not coming down under the “Affordable” Care Act.

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:31 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, unless you have a crystal ball and can see into the future, your response is as uninformed as mine. You do not know what will happen because it hasn’t happened yet. Because a few companies have made comments about dropping coverage means nothing. There are plenty, the majority in fact, that ARE NOT. I sit right next to our benefits department and hear them talk about rate increases. They are at the lowest point in years. I happen to be very informed.

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:06 pm
            FFA says:
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            When in the history of these Unites State has anything come down when the Govt sticks their nose in private industry?

      • December 18, 2012 at 10:44 am
        FFA says:
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        So does IL. So does WI. why not just work with what is there -IN Il (ICHIP) remove the 12 month Pre X Limitation and the have the Feds Subsidize that plan?

        All this massive change for what?

        Anyone else out there know of other states that have a plan in place already?

        • December 18, 2012 at 10:55 am
          Libby says:
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          • December 18, 2012 at 12:21 pm
            FFA says:
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            My mind is made up. I dont like it. Now, I am being forced to deal with it when the frame work was already in place.
            Have I CHIP / Badger Care and what ever plan you have in place already in your state come up with some different plan designs.
            I’m an old dog Libby. 2700 pages of this that the next thing is too much too fast.

            I have to be able to understand the full scope of this before I can put togeather a marketing strategy. As you can tell, I am having a hard time with it as there is not enough information with out the personal level of repetition necessary for me to grasp all 2700 pages before I can call myself an expert.

          • December 18, 2012 at 12:50 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, Don’t feel like the Lone Stranger in this colossal mess. Legal scholars can’t read the bill and understand all the ramifications and how it will affect Individuals and Groups. I think we can agree that nothing good is coming down for the average American. Higher taxes, penalties, mandates, mysterious exchanges, higher rates for coverage. This bill promises all of this and more. The carriers will adjust to it since they will get to do the exchanges online and they will be subsidized by Sebelius when they lose money insuring all those PreX’s. Wait, isn’t that new $63 per head charge supposed to pay for the PreX freeloaders?

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – you don’t make any sense. You want states to be in charge of healthcare? I thought you did not want “government intrusion” in business. That is the epitome of socialist medicine.

            This allows health insurance carriers to continue in the free market system.

            It is NOT government run, only government subsidized. And the exchanges are only vehicles for the consumer to access quotes from multiple carriers for comparison purposes. Many states already have their exchange in place.

            You can continue to be stubborn and “not like it” or you can get with the program and figure out how to work with it or around it. Nothing happens without change. Change is hard, but it can be good, too.

            The smart agents will figure out a way to work this to their advantage and will thrive. The others will fall by the wayside.

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:10 pm
            FFA says:
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            Working with the frame work that is already in place would have been much simpler then what is going on now. Mass Confusion. Job Losses. Hours being reduced. Time to get Max Smart to ramp his efforts to stamp out Kaos.

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:15 pm
            Libby says:
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            There wasn’t anything in place, FFA. A state-run health program is not an option.

          • December 18, 2012 at 3:27 pm
            FFA says:
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            Not any more.

          • December 19, 2012 at 8:23 am
            Libby says:
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            It’s socialist. Is that what you want?

          • December 19, 2012 at 10:06 am
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            Libby, I want the govt – State, Fed,Local out of our industry all togeather.
            ZERO Govt intrusion is what I want. None of them pin heads know my business better then I do. They shouold just sit in the cubicles and listen to their I Pods. Pull a Sandy Jackson – just work 10% of the time, pull all the pay.

          • December 19, 2012 at 10:07 am
            Libby says:
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            Then you don’t want state health care. Trust me.

          • December 19, 2012 at 10:51 am
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            No, I do not.

  • December 14, 2012 at 3:42 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “The people I talk to from U.K. and France have nothing but good things to say about the care they receive.”

    I don’t know who you are talking to but I can tell you that I was responsible for the international operations of a large company. We had operations all over Europe and MOST of the people, when speaking about their “national ” healthcare program thought it sucked. The only ones who liked it were the economy takers. For example, I had a employee who ended up terminal because he could not get a cat scan for over 6 months. Why, every deadbeat with a hangnail was in front of him. Why is that? because the government screwed down the payment reimbursements so tight that doctors and hospitals could not afford more than one cat scan therefore everyone stands in line and waits. That is what is going to happen here.
    Also, Canada is close to me, People from all over Canada come to Michigan to get treament and see doctors. Why? they can’t get the tests they need or see the doctors they need to. There was a radio station that did a segment on why the Canadians were coming to the US and almost all said, the Canadian system sucks and we can’t get treatment or the tests we need timely. Bloated, inefficient, poor patient care.

    • December 14, 2012 at 3:56 pm
      Agent says:
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      I agree Sargent. Libby is going to get a taste of what it is like to have European style Healthcare when this turkey kicks in. I don’t know much about France, but the UK’s system is bankrupt, they are laying off hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers, they put seniors on the “Pathway to Death” if they have a serious illness with no treatment provided. They are the Dr. Kavorkian of all countries. I wonder what all those foreigners are going to do for treatment when they want to fly over here to get a needed operation or cancer treatment. I guess if they have serious cash, they will still get it, but at the rate doctors are getting out of the practice, they may have trouble finding anyone to treat them.

      • December 14, 2012 at 3:58 pm
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        • December 14, 2012 at 4:02 pm
          Agent says:
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          The greatest country on a fast track to despair and failure. All of this so you can have your Progressive ideology to tear down the basic fabric of our society and create more poverty.

  • December 14, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Speaking of Merry Christmas-

    I was looking at my Christmas lights today and I noticed that they were a lot like Obama voters- They all hang together, half of them don’t work and the rest are not all that bright!

    • December 14, 2012 at 3:48 pm
      Libby says:
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      • December 14, 2012 at 3:59 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Im great around Christmas and I love Christmas as it is the birth of our lord Jesus Christ upon which this nation based its faith, school system, and with good intentions the government with good intentions and fairness. Oh well two out of three ain’t bad. I say Merry Christmas!, not “Happy Holidays”, Give a lot of money and time to a number of charitable causes, sponsor families that are in need and who otherwise might not have a Christmas. We are involved in Operation Christmas Child which is a Franklin Graham Ministry (Billy Graham’s son) and we sent over 300 christmas boxes (Gifts) to needy children around the world this year. I love Christmas.

        Love you too Libby

        • December 14, 2012 at 4:08 pm
          Agent says:
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          Good for you Sargent. Our church has a big campaign to help the needy at Christmas. Everything from providing Christmas dinner to clothes and toys for children. Christians do these kinds of things. Atheists do not have a charitable bone in their body, but like to criticize us and tell us they are offended by manger scenes in front of the courthouse.

          • December 14, 2012 at 4:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            I drop about $500 a year to Shop with a Cop. As bad as things are for me, someone has it worse. when my Gr Kids got to see Santa, without being prompted, they asked for something to give to someone else.

            really does make it all worth it.

          • December 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            I heard that one time and told the tu*d that if he did not like the manger scene to move back to Iraq and he would not have to look at one. He left and looked emotional- Awwww.

          • December 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent,
            I, too, am a Christian. But perhaps some of the most charitable people I know are atheists. So, your perception doesn’t hold true. I’ve come to understand you don’t have to believe in a god to believe in The Golden Rule.

          • December 18, 2012 at 2:19 pm
            Bob says:
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            Captain:

            Don’t make unresearched comments.

            The least charitable group are atheists in both time and money. The most charitable group are conservative christian republicans in both time and money.

            Google it. Don’t go speaking based on your atheist “friends”. That’s a very small bubble to work with. But more to the point: I have never met an atheist that was not more selfish than a conservative Christian. And if you were a “Christian” at any point you would be able to identify exactly “how” they are selfish.

            Look at their dating, sexual life styles, perceptions of when they should make an intervention, how often they treat their “enemies” as “friends” and keep them around rather than keeping with the “why would I keep someone who I don’t like around?” mentality. They do for a fact have tier system of survival of the fittest, no human for every day giving will ever be put above themselves. For Christians they are taught that there are two tiers above thmeselves, and that there is no such thing as a tier that they are above. The latter of the two is most important. They are told people are at their level or better, and God is at the top. This forces them to act less selfishly, and if you paid any attention you would see atheists definitively have people they put into boxes they don’t like, and treat dramatically different than their “like” box. They definitively have a box of lower tier people. I know you will try to argue that Christians also label and have lower tiers for gays. This is however the minority, and is entirely not the true effect of religion. Religion is the only thing that can possibly create a two tier above yourself system, it might not for everyone, but for Atheists that two tier above yourself system CANNOT exist. It is impossible. So we have impossible, versus possible, and probable for the amount of people who meet my criteria.

            Atheists have no reason or incentive to do many actions that Christians do, and I’m not talking the golden rule. The golden rule is common sense. How you treat people day to day, how you value yourself, and what you value in comparison to yourself is greatly effected by religion.

          • December 18, 2012 at 3:21 pm
            Bob says:
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            Agent,

            I did get tired of it, yes. I also realized that Libby is basically on the right track, just owned by her emotions by democrats currently. My arguing with her is something I view as punching someone who is more or less on the right track in the face. Center Point and Ron have now taken my attention, but even them I’m just tired of making the same arguments. I vastly prefer to just relax with my daughter for Christmas. It’s been a hard year losing my dad and all.

            Planet is out of his mind most of the time. He’s an envious Christian the way he speaks about taxing, and the “open minded” one to boot, the worst type. These guys fit into norms by trying not to fit into a norm. I’ve been around them. He always talks about this religious zealotry, that is indefinitely the minority in terms of religions (considering even the most extreme church zealots, Catholics lean democrat), and always talks as if he himself is the minority who goes against the usual Christian norm, even though he is the norm. I just don’t like him. At all.

            You Texans are my type. Straight forward, all about the end result, but morality is clearly there and is defined. I do not like the whole morality being up for interpretation based on the scenario crap. I saw what that resulted in during my youth. I never met a liberal taker who was selfless, or had a real driven purpose in life. They just kind of existed and said how anything could be perfectly ok from some sort of point of view. I don’t call that an existence, and I don’t call that morality. I know how morality works, and contrary to the liberal’s belief that it just kind of springs up out of nowhere, it is deeply rooted in your religious beliefs.

        • December 17, 2012 at 8:24 am
          Libby says:
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          • December 17, 2012 at 10:06 am
            FFA says:
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            And here comes the race card from Libby again.

          • December 17, 2012 at 10:16 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 17, 2012 at 11:27 am
            FFA says:
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            Why do we need to conform to people that come here regardless of Race / Color/ Creed?
            Had the big to do over the exact same thing next town over last year. Manger scene at the court house drew out the ACLU. That manger scene was there a lot longer then the ACLU existed. I view it like the kids room, I dont want to see the mess, I look the other direction. I dont want to hear the neighbors dog bark at night, I oull a pillow over my head. I dont force my ways on someone else.

          • December 17, 2012 at 11:32 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 18, 2012 at 3:07 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good to see you join the fray Bob. Where have you been hiding? Did you get tired of trying to educate Libby & Planet until you recharged your batteries? I agree with your analysis. The atheists I have met are very self serving and have few charitable bones in their body. Since they don’t believe in an after life, they don’t see the need to help others so they don’t bother. Conservatives are easily the most charitable through their church and privately. We raise money for a number of fine non-profit organizations who do very good work. The Salvation Army is one of the best to give to. They have very little overhead like the United Way, Red Cross and others.

          • December 18, 2012 at 3:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, I am sorry to hear about your Dad. I have lost both my parents in recent years. My Dad was a quiet guy, but he led by example and I learned my work ethic from him as he worked very hard to support my mother and 4 kids. He always said – get educated, work hard and be honest in your dealings with people and you can’t go wrong. I have had my share of ups and downs in my career, but overall it has been good. That is why I get so upset at what Liberal Progressives are trying to do to this country. We are facing economic ruin and they just keep on doing the same thing and hoping for a different result. They have almost no common sense and it shows with every statement they make. It is all about ideology now and they could really care less whether we object to it or not.

      • December 14, 2012 at 4:04 pm
        Agent says:
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        We have been insulted for years Libby and Progressives have been busy taking the Christmas out of Christmas. They are on a mission and it is time this stuff stopped. Merry Christmas to you too.

        • December 14, 2012 at 4:10 pm
          Sargent Major says:
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          Yes, we have been insulted and their hypocrisy has no bounds. One minute they criticize anyone other than a right wing liberal nut for being “Mean Spirited” then turn around and call people As*holes, or even a Grinch- Ha

          • December 17, 2012 at 8:22 am
            Libby says:
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    • December 14, 2012 at 3:54 pm
      Producer #1 says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      You must have a bad way of taking care of your lights… My lights are strongly bound together and light up the neighborhood.

  • December 14, 2012 at 4:12 pm
    UCT says:
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    I will be honest, I do not know much about healthcare. I know I pay $2,700 per year for it through my employeer for myself and my daughters. That’s the extent of my knowledge. I have yet to hear anyone say if this will have any effect on the large companies, like United Healthcare, GHP or the like.

    Just my $.02, but no group, Obamacare or UHC/GHP should be allowed to post a PROFIT based on YOUR health. Does no one else see a major issue here? lol

    • December 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      Get ready to pay $63 per head more for your health coverage UCT. That is being added in shortly. This is over and above any other rate increases that come down the pike. I understand Blue Cross is doing 20-40% rate increases in California. How about that for affordability?

    • December 14, 2012 at 4:25 pm
      FFA says:
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      Business 101 – the prupose of the business is to turn a profit.

      • December 14, 2012 at 4:49 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, Progressives haven’t studied Business 101 or Econ 101. They do study Socialism 101 and Keynes 101 and think that is the correct way to run our economy. What misguided dunces they are. Capitalism made this the greatest country on earth in history and it is being torn down piece by piece. What a travesty!

      • December 17, 2012 at 10:35 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, Sorry about your Bears again. I didn’t see the game, but saw the highlights/low lights package on the NFL network. They started off allright and then deteriorated into turnovers which basically handed the game to the Packers. Dallas managed to pull out another one on the suddenly average Steelers. We got a real horse race in the NFC East now that the Giants are playing poorly. If I were betting, I would take the Redskins who are on a roll, even without RG111. The backup appears to be really good and passed for over 300 yds.

        • December 17, 2012 at 1:18 pm
          FFA says:
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          Yea. Alshon Jeffries with 3 pass interferance calls. One took away a TD. He gets held – no flag. Missing our D in a big way. That Hester has no biz being a receiver too. Was a reason he was a D Back in college. Its cause he cant catch a ball or think on the fly. Just not smart enough.

          Did not get to see Pit V Dallas. Had a dad issue going on. Was good to get the Bears game in with him.

          That game last night was a good one. Sets up a big game next Sunday Night – 49′s vs Seattle.

          • December 17, 2012 at 2:44 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes, the 49′ers built up a large lead on the Pats and then started resting on their laurels and let Brady back in the game. Ended up in a one touchdown margin. I think you would have enjoyed the Dallas game had you gotten to see it. Dallas has 6 Defensive starters out currently so I don’t know half the names of who they have out there, but these substitutes played hard and got two late sacks that helped. Romo played very well and benefitted from not changing the plays at the line of scrimmage. I think Garrett told him to just run the plays. Our offensive line is not smart enough to pick up on a play change and usually false start. If they have only one play to remember, they do better.

          • December 17, 2012 at 2:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            The Dallas-Pittsburgh game was a real nailbiter at the end and neck and neck the entire game.

            But how about them Broncos?! Snuck up on everyone, didn’t they?

          • December 17, 2012 at 4:33 pm
            Agent says:
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            I have noticed the refs are calling much more offensive pass interference this year. Back in the day, Michael Irvin used to get away with it all the time since he had trouble separating himself from the DB. He was a star, so he got away with a lot. When we see play after play with a DB tugging on jersies as they are running down the field and no call, the receivers get frustrated and push back some time. They then get caught. Some of the better receivers seem to get open without much problem with moves and speed. Perhaps Jeffries should work on his moves some more.

          • December 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, Broncos did not surprse me – Peyton Manning. I tried to trade for one of his receivers and just could not up the ante enough.

            With Jefferies yesterday, I think the refs were being a little over zelous with the flags. Maybe the NFL want the Pack in the play offs?

          • December 17, 2012 at 5:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            Harbuagh did take something from his days with the Bears – the Prevent Defense. Almost figured out the only thing that prevents is the win.

          • December 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm
            Agent says:
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            Manning probably made a smart move going to Denver. He has an acceptable line to protect him, receivers who are obviously catching the ball and the team is better than average defensively. It really all boils down to who has the least number of injuries and whether the injuries are to the stars or not. In the Cowboys case, all their injuries on both sides of the line may have been a blessing in disguise. Their replacements are playing better than the stars anyway.

  • December 16, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Water Bug says:
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    Pay attention Libby. In the UK the National Institute for Clinical Excellence decides who lives and who dies under the National Health scheme. I have no living family in the UK anymore because Her Majesty’s government rationed care to my relations and now they are dead. One aunt needed a hip replacement and she was told there would be a 2 year wait. She was bedridden for 14 months with a bad hip and developed pneumonia among other things from lying in bed for months. My cousin’s husband was denied state of the art meds for his Parkinsons because he was 65. British National Health is dandy for headaches and scraped knees but it sucks for serious ailments.

    BTW, the National Health is the third largest employer in the world topped only by the Red Army of China and the Indian railway system. There is a shortage of doctors in the UK and it’s getting worse. A growing population in the UK wants to get rid of the government health plan.

    • December 17, 2012 at 3:16 pm
      Agent says:
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      Yes Libby, the Broncos are one of the better teams in the AFC. The key is that they have kept Manning healthy and he has recovered his arm strength. They also have Von Miller from Texas A&M who is a terror rushing the passer. They will still have to go through New England or Houston to get to the Super Bowl. If Houston keeps the home field advantage, they are very tough in Reliant stadium.

      • December 17, 2012 at 3:24 pm
        Libby says:
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        Well, they’ll have to pull out some Orange Crush on them and keep on moving up! I’ll be rooting for them!

        • December 18, 2012 at 10:53 am
          FFA says:
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          Did you catch Brandon Marshals Post Game comments? “People Need to get Fired”.
          Right now there is a bunch of Lovie Bashing going on. There is a bunch of Mike Tice bashing too.
          Should be some GM bashing due to the fact there is no offensive line.
          Hester needs to be removed from the Offense and Jefferies needs to learn the rules.
          We will never know how good Cutler is / isnt until he can actually stay on his feet the whole game. As a receiver, Hester sucks!

          • December 18, 2012 at 11:05 am
            Agent says:
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            FFA, Unfortunately when things are not going well for a team, the finger pointing starts and that is not a good thing. Did you see the Arizona college game last weekend at the New Mexico Bowl? A couple of Arizona’s lineman started blaming each other and started throwing punches and had to be separated. They should have saved their anger for the other team. Teams that pull together when facing adversity are the ones who end up doing well. Even our dysfunctional Cowboy team has pulled together with 10 key players out and they are playing better with the substitutes.

          • December 18, 2012 at 3:38 pm
            FFA says:
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            First and goal inside the 5 and three run plays up the gut with the finess runner instead of the battering ram. No blocking. Play calling on the coach. Lack of talent on the GM.
            Hester with his alligator arms – initally on him. Now, on the caches for keeping up the illusion that he is a quality receivor.

            And Libby, I am looking forward to a match up between the Broncos and Texans. Two high octane QB with a great supporting cast around them both.

            Next SUnday should prove to be another good match up Seatle vs San Fran duking it out for the division Some good football coming up.

          • December 19, 2012 at 10:12 am
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            And to follow, Urlacher was quoted as saying he hates the Media and he hates the fans. He is the face of this Franchise although I think Briggs is a better player.
            May have cost him some endorsements. None the less, Lovie Bashing continues.
            Bototm line, our O Line sucks! Thats on the GM – Lack of talent.

    • December 17, 2012 at 5:14 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      Water Bug, I have the same experience in the UK and the rest of Europe. Those employees who worked for me and lived there thought the “National Health Scheme’ SUCKED.

      • December 18, 2012 at 3:48 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, You know what I have seen work over a thousand times over the years when a team is inside the 5 yard line. The QB fakes the handoff to the back and rolls out and either walks in or flips a pass to the tight end for an easy score. Coaches are macho and hard headed and try three plays into the line which gets stuffed and then settle for a field goal. Good coaches run one play into the line. If they don’t make it, they do the fake and score. You are right about the Broncos/Texans match. That would be a good one. The Texans would also like another shot at Brady on their turf as well.

        • December 18, 2012 at 6:19 pm
          FFA says:
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          Your not a football coach and you know it. I am Legally Blind and I can see it coming.

          I am sure Schaub & Company want to see mr Brady again. Road to the SB in the AFC is going through New England or Texas.

          • December 19, 2012 at 11:32 am
            Agent says:
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            Your comment is the reason why I don’t want another retread coach if Garrett fails in Dallas. The old school coaches like Parcells and Phillips would try ramming the ball in. The defense knew exactly what they would run and put 11 players on the line of scrimmage. They had little trouble stopping it. We were screaming fake it and roll out to no avail. They are happy with their 3 points and then they get beat in the 4th quarter.

  • December 17, 2012 at 8:01 am
    UCT says:
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    My insurance went up another 13% this year. 10% last year and 8% the year before. I’m noticing the trend here… lol

    • December 17, 2012 at 5:11 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      UCT, Assuming your loss history and employee counts are the same that is unfortunate, So, unfortunately the insurance companies have to fund for losses now so they are somewhat prepared when the disaster begins. That is also the way the fed is working this. They are trying to tax to death now even though there is no benefit until at least 2014. This is a train wreck.

  • December 17, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    CB says:
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    Anyone who has ever been involved in an IT project related to the insurance industry knows it could take 10 months or more just to develop the requirements for the exchange’s structure. This is going to be a great big stinking disaster.

  • December 17, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Libby says:
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    • December 17, 2012 at 1:43 pm
      FFA says:
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      I have a friend that is on ground floor of a start up company. Been working on the programing for doctors for two years now. Not enough time left to work the bugs out and get this marketed to the intended end user.
      As soon as they thnk they have one thing worked out, another fine print section of the law popps up and they need to go back and fix the whole thing again. Been on it for two years and not a nickle of revenue yet.

      • December 17, 2012 at 3:00 pm
        Agent says:
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        After all FFA, they do have to go through 2,700 pages of Progressive nonsense. We just had that little $63 per head charge pop up on Individual & Group policies. How many more little surprises do you think we will get before 2014? It may not matter if the Mayan calendar is correct afterall.

  • December 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “You love Christmas. It’s just Democrats you hate. Along with illegal aliens, Muslims, blacks, the poor, and any other minority out there. Now that’s the Christmas spirit!”

    Libby- No I don’t hate Democrats. I don’t hate anyone. At least not like you. I assume you are going to say that your post is not ” mean spirited” (I think that is your term). I don’t hate anyone like the liberals do. Hate is a part of their culture. If they can’t get their way the whine, cry, kick scream and hate. that is the culture.

    What I do is observe the democrats, liberals, fraud and ignorant democrat policy and report the facts. The facts that the liberals do, say, enact legislation that for the most part borders on or is absurd does not make me “hate” them. It makes me speak out and work to keep America strong. All the liberals are looking for is enough votes to perpetuate moron culture they breed. That is why the JoAnn Watson’s of the world, the illegal aliens, the economy takers, the lazy etc vote for your party. They are the party of the take what I can and have someone else pay for it. I have said this many times, I support the needy not subsidize the lazy, the no goods and fraudsters who milk this country. You don’t care whether they are needy or not.

    • December 18, 2012 at 2:34 pm
      Agent says:
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      I agree wholeheartedly Sargent. All the Democrats know is to demonize, divide, play the race card, gender card, class warfare card and whatever other card they can dream up in order to consolidate their power. They practice legalized stealing from the American People by taxation and regulation and stomping on the Constitution daily. Anyone who stands up to them and proposes Conservative solutions to problems is promptly attacked viciously and demeaned. Conservative Politicians are a big target and they know it. Soon, there may not be many Conservatives willing to run since the complicit media is waiting to attack them. The Republican Party is just a shell of a party now. There really needs to be a new party formed. I would call it the Conservative Party. There are millions who would leave the Republicans in a heartbeat to join it. Independents who are conservative, Libertarians, Tea Party could be formidable. Marco Rubio could be the first candidate. He seems to have a spine where the others don’t.

  • December 18, 2012 at 3:47 pm
    M. Prankster says:
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    PA is too busy declaring 2012 “The Year of the Bible.”

  • December 18, 2012 at 4:57 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Agent, I know you have noticed that through all of these discussions about the fisacal cliff that not one Democrat including the President has offered up one, just one thing that they will do to cut spending. Certainly, not one entitlement program cut, not one. Why do you suppose they is happening? Are they just stupid and don’t have a clue? NO I don’t think so. I think it is because the Democrats want to continue to support entitlements and not entitlement reform to eliminate fraud, waste, illegals etc. All they want to do is collect more votes to perpetuate a moronic culture of liberal waste.

    • December 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      • December 18, 2012 at 5:25 pm
        Bob says:
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        Captain,

        Look at the welfare explosion in spending since the recession ended in 2009 and tell me entitlements are not a problem.

        It’s gone up by nearly 3 times.

        Further to the point: it’s not an “earned” benefit if your goal is to tax the rich more to fund the “earned” benefit than you tax the “benefactor”. Are you one of those that is angry social security taxes are capped at roughly 100,000?

        I had to take off my secret decider ring and put on my “this should be captain obvious but instead I’m dealing with captain planet” ring.

        • December 18, 2012 at 5:57 pm
          Agent says:
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          Bob, didn’t you know this was all GW’s fault? We have heard that for the past four years and will probably hear it for the next four. Libby says we haven’t told her how taxes affect our business even though you and many others like me have given her chapter and verse. Try these on for size,Libby. 1. Payroll Tax rate from 4.2% to 6.2% next year. 2. Income Tax brackets – 2012 – 10%,15%,25%,28%,33%,35%. 2013 – 15%,28%,31%,36%,39.6%. 3. Capital Gains – 2012 – 15% – 2013 – 20% with dividends taxed as ordinary income meaning the top rate could be 39.6%. Marriage Tax Deduction if filing joint return. 2013 – Standard deduction will be 167% of single filers deduction. We aren’t even talking about the many Obamacare taxes kicking in as well. Libby is another happy lemming agreeing to all this and don’t think it will hurt the middle class or small business.

          • December 19, 2012 at 8:29 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2012 at 10:17 am
            FFA says:
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            Which I did.

          • December 19, 2012 at 10:19 am
            Libby says:
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        • December 19, 2012 at 1:03 pm
          Agent says:
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          Bob, I wasn’t aware the recession ended in 2009 even if the Liberal’s proudly proclaimed it. How many recovery summers have we had that weren’t a recovery? 1% or 2% growth is not a recovery. A real recovery is in the 4-5% neighborhood and real private sector job growth, not government created jobs which sap the economy further. Planet can take his decoder ring and happily jump into the pit with the other lemmings.

  • December 18, 2012 at 5:05 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    I assume you also saw the recent government report on spending? According to the report the USA takes in about $5.0 billion each day in “revenue”. Now the shocker. What do we spend each day?

    About $3.1 billion on HHS- welfare medicaid and medicare

    About $2.5 Billion each day for Social Security

    About $1.8 Billion each day for DOD.

    All other spending $2.75 Billion each day

    And the kicker- $854 Million dollars each day in interest on 16.5 Trillion in debt.

    Add all that up and we spend $11.0 Billion each day and the liberals don’t think we have a spending problem and want to let this administration spend even more. Unbelieveable

    • December 18, 2012 at 5:26 pm
      Agent says:
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      $11 Billion a day adds up to $4Trillion per year. We take in about $2.6 Trillion in revenue from our depleted economy. I’m sure that tax on the rich of $80 Billion will really put a dent in it. About 8 days of government operations. If we were creating tax payers by job creation, the revenue would quickly rise to about $3 Trillion and we cut spending by $1Trillion, we could start talking about a balanced budget, but we know the liberals don’t want any cuts to anything. Planet with his decoder ring will happily jump over the cliff since he is a happy lemming.

  • December 18, 2012 at 6:18 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Cptain Planet said- “Entitlements? Oh, you mean earned benefits…got it. I had to use my not-so-secret decoder ring.”

    Sorry planet, medicaid and welfare are not earned benefits. They are supposed to be TEMPORARY programs for the most needy UNTIL they can become SELF SUFFICIENT. Additionally, emergency aid for illegal aliens, emergency pregnancy aid for illegals, fraud and an inefficient, bloated and exoensive government process are not earned benefits. Cut all of that out and you have earned benefits. Then I would support.
    I support the needy. I do not support funding the lazy.

  • December 19, 2012 at 9:34 am
    Captain Planet says:
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    I agree there is a spending problem in this country and a conversation should be had on where to make cuts. I also don’t think straight up lazy people should sponge. But, there are many out there who actually need the safety net, who have paid into the safety net, and therefore have earned that benefit.

    • December 19, 2012 at 12:22 pm
      Bob says:
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      The government plans to spend $85 billion in QE and Twist this next year. That’s 1.020 Trillion we can easily cut.

      The payroll tax cut is $180 billion a year.

      Welfare trimmed back to 2007 levels: $400 billion in savings.

      Tax increase Boehner put on the table: $100 billion per year

      Military budget cut back to $400 billion like it was in 2006 roughly $300 billion in savings per year (at it’s peak during Obama’s presidency it was right around $900 billion)

      We have budget deficits currently of 1.1 to 1.4 trillion. This isn’t hard cutting. We don’t even have to cut social security or medicare. The numbers I just gave result in a 2.1 trillion dollar swing per year. Also known as roughly a $700 billion to 1 trillion dollar annual surplus.

      And as a side comment: People were not dying int the streets in 2007. All these spending areas would be doable. We have not had 200% inflation since 2007. Even adjusting welfare and military increases per inflation of 3% per year would make these surpluses $600 billion to $900 billion.

      • December 19, 2012 at 12:34 pm
        FFA says:
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        Dont agree with Military spending cuts. Too many nut jibs out there plotting something somewhere on the home land. Let the military occupy the nut jobs over seas – keed the violence off American Soil.

        as an alternative, cut foreign aid to those countries that dont like us – back our play. Jordan, Pakistan to name two. Stay out of other countries civil war.

      • December 19, 2012 at 12:57 pm
        Agent says:
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        So Bob, do you find any common sense with our political leaders? I see none on Boner’s part or the President’s part. There are a lot of unhappy conservative Congressmen and there could be a move early next year to replace Boner and send him to the tanning bed where he can pay a tax to use it under Obamacare. I see a major cave in to just raise taxes and not make the hard choices on spending cuts. This is common sense to do, but there is not the political spine to stand up and do the right thing.

        • December 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm
          Bob says:
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          Agent,

          Actually, no. Boehner really isn’t making the case against this spending. I would rather him say yeah, Obama is ruining the solvency of social security and medicare, and then point out we either have QE and twist and stimulus, or we have social security medicare solvency.

          Gingrich was better.

    • December 19, 2012 at 12:23 pm
      Bob says:
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      That should read “The government plans to spend $85 billion in QE and Twist per month” this year.

  • December 19, 2012 at 9:36 am
    Captain Planet says:
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    Oh, and emergency aid should be there for anyone who needs it. We can’t start letting human beings die in the streets and having babies discarded in dumpsters or not given proper care once they are born. That’s not what Jesus would do. You don’t put a price tag on a human life, illegal or not.

    • December 19, 2012 at 10:47 am
      FFA says:
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      Planet, We are way past needing a conversation. We need action. Right here. Right now.
      The lazy people do sponge. Two doors down from me was bitching they cut off her unemployment after two years and she was applying for more section 8 money cause she thinks her daughter is disabled when she is not. I have repeateldy told the daughter the next time her psycho mom tosses her down the stairs, come get me. I’ll let the psycho know what it feels like. F’n loser just keeps sticking her hand out time and time again. Mean while, the family shrink believes the psycho mom and dismisses the bruises as accidental.

      Discarded babies? Hellow there, No questions asked works. Gets used often. If these moms are going to drop their child in the garbage, they are going to do it. Played out like that last week in a burb just east of me. A well to do burd at that. The dective that investigated the entire incident – start to finish – was visibly shaken. I guess there are no words to describe what a dead infant looks like in a garbage hopper behind a shopping mall.

      My heart was breaking all over again last night when they were showing the pictures of the childern that were sluaghtered. I hope the families left behind can find peace with this. I dont think I could.

      I cant believe, with all this going on in our world, our poltiticains can even agree on thinhgs as basic as balancing a budget. How, may I ask, will they solve the other problems.

      • December 19, 2012 at 11:14 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, As much as liberals are in favor of the “safety net”, they don’t realize how the freeloaders are bankrupting the country. We have almost 50 million on food stamps, welfare payments out the kazoo, they have no work requirements to get it (thanks to their main man) who had no Constitutional authority to do so and in direct opposition to the law. The ones who actually had jobs at one time used up their 99 weeks, then trotted down to the Social Security office and got on Disability. This government will never solve the fiscal crisis until they have intervention and admit they have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

        Regarding your statement about the kids that were murdered, I saw an interesting email addressing just that. People were wailing about how God could allow this to happen. God’s answer was that he is not allowed in school.

        • December 19, 2012 at 12:26 pm
          Bob says:
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          Agent:

          That ending phrase was the best I could have expected from you.

          Bravo.

          I do often wonder why it is that freedom of religion, means freedom of religion only while in your own house.

          I should be able to pray before class to my heart’s content.

          • December 19, 2012 at 12:49 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, The godless atheists and liberal Progressives want freedom from religion which is directly against what the Constitution provides. That is why we can’t have manger scenes, say prayers at high school football games and any prayers in school, even if it is private to the person praying because we may “offend someone”. They offend me and have taken my rights away. They are a minority in this country, but they scream the loudest and the silent majority have let them get away with it and our politicians are complicit in the laws they have passed.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob, you can pray before class, but the teacher can’t lead everyone in prayer. Not everyone wants to pray or may pray to a different God. Prayer is a private thing. You should be able to do it, but privately not publicly. That’s what Church is for.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:11 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            No, you can’t. A school was recently brought to court for having Jesus posters at a football game.

            Of course, the court said it was perfectly ok. It is liberals who make these efforts though. And more to the point, I should be able to pray in class before a test. How about that scenario? Schools do not allow that.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:22 pm
            Libby says:
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            Why can’t you fold your hands, bow your head, and say a prayer before a test? Who’s going to stop you? Jesus posters are different. That’s a public display of Christianity and has no place in a public school. The Constitution guaranteed Separation of Church and State, but Freedom OF Religion. That means no-one can force their religion on you, you are free to follow whatever religion you choose. But in a publicly funded school, Jesus posters don’t belong any more than Allah posters or Vishnu posters or Jim Jones posters.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:31 pm
            Bob says:
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            First of all: putting up a Jesus poster during a football game, is not against religious freedom. The supreme court already proved you wrong on that one. But liberals tried to say its offensive to have such a poster up. Yet we can put up play and movie posters that the school recommends for kids. They also recommend books.

            Next of all: who is going to stop me? Have you been in a liberal state school?

            They stop you. If they see hand folding during a test you can go to detention for not stopping when told. I should be able to fold my hands, kneel on the ground, and set up my little statue and pray. You cannot do that due to liberals. Christians have to hide gays don’t in your eyes. Liberals do stop prayer and public display of religion whenever they get the chance. If you don’t agree with that it’s fine but you have to acknowledge its part of your party platform. Don’t hide from it or decent it blindly and twist what is going on so you feel like you are a democrat. That’s just stupid. Just admit you aren’t a democrat and do not agree with that crap.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:34 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: I should emphasize, the school did not put up the Jesus poster.

            Kids held the poster during the game.

            No one had to praise Jesus. The kids can hold whatever sign they want.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            Here’s what I do believe:

            Individual, silent, personal prayer never has and never could be outlawed in public schools. The courts have declared government-fostered prayers unconstitutional – those led, required, sanctioned, scheduled or suggested by officials.

            It is dishonest to call any prayer “voluntary” that is encouraged or required by a public official or legislature. By definition, if the government suggests that students pray, whether by penning the prayer, asking them to vote whether to pray or setting aside time to pray, it is endorsing and promoting that prayer. It is coercive for schools to schedule worship as an official part of the school day, school sports or activities, or to use prayer to formalize graduation ceremonies. Such prayers are more “mandatory” than “voluntary.”

            Proponents of so-called “voluntary” school prayer amendment are admitting that our secular Constitution prohibits organized prayers in public schools. Otherwise, why would an amendment to our U.S. Constitution be required? The nation must ask whether politically-motivated politicians are wiser than James Madison, principal author of the Constitution, and the other founders who engineered the world’s oldest and most successful constitution.

            A school prayer amendment would negate the First Amendment’s guarantee against government establishment of religion. Most distressing, it would be at the expense of the civil rights of children, America’s most vulnerable class. It would attack the heart of the Bill of Rights, which safeguards the rights of the individual from the tyranny of the majority.

            I copied this because someone else said it more eloquently than I, but I do believe it.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            If the students were holding the poster, that is probably why the Supreme Court ruled in their favor. I was under the impression that the posters were put up in the school.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:47 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Congratulations. You just said republican beliefs.

            As I pointed out, I should be allowed to pray in school on my knees before a test at my option.

            The school will not tell me to pray or offer me to pray. In all cases I listed it was my option. In the case of kids holding a poster, that is their freedom and the majority of liberals are against such behavior.

            The school is already dictating religious belief by putting on the table books which are secular in nature, and not balancing with Options for book reports that are religious in nature.

            Yes, a conservative school has such options. Liberal ones, do not and prohibit it.

            Restricted religion is a part of the liberal platform in California, washington, Oregon, Massachusetts, and the solid blue states. In those states, you cannot pray during school. In those schools, you cannot do a book report on catholic philosophy from saint Augustine in your English class. It doesn’t count. But they certainly push books which advocate assisted suicide.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:49 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Separation of church and state is not in the constitution. It’s from a letter from Thomas Jefferson, and even then he said there should be a “wall of separation” convening the powers of the church and state, more importantly to protect against the state prohibiting the practice of religion, but also against forcing one particular religion. It was not to absent religion entirely.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:52 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby said “Why can’t you fold your hands, bow your head, and say a prayer before a test? Who’s going to stop you?”

            The ACLU, thats who.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:58 pm
            Libby says:
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            You are right, to a point. The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This came about largely due to Jefferson’s speeches regarding the wall of separation between church and state.

            Jefferson’s actual quote in the letter he wrote is “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”

            I believe in those principles.

          • December 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: right to a point? You just confirmed and restated everything I said. I only pointed out that the words “seperation of church and state” are not in the constitution. I’m quite aware of Jefferson’s words, I ascertained the same conclusion you did.

            We agree. The fact is that democrats do not agree with us on what we agree about.

          • December 19, 2012 at 2:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            OK, we agree. Wow, that was easy.

          • December 19, 2012 at 3:37 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, A lot of people wonder why bad things keep happening to this country and it is in a free fall due to moral and ethical decline. I trace it back to the Clinton years when the motto was, “if it feels good, do it”. Attacks on Christianity have continued unabated for a couple of decades now. Is it any wonder that people don’t seem to know right from wrong? The rise of single parent households have not helped and kids don’t have the right foundation to learn to do the right things. There is one program out there (not government) which does help young people learn values and honesty and how to treat people. It is the First Tee program sponsored by the PGA Golf Tour. It has reached 6 million youngsters so far and they have lofty goals. They don’t preach religion, but it has helped teach kids right from wrong, the work ethic and not to cheat at life. I give to it and hope others will as well. I am afraid private organizations will have to do things like this since the government run schools don’t and parents or lack therof do not do it anymore.

          • December 19, 2012 at 4:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent said “The godless atheists and liberal Progressives want freedom from religion which is directly against what the Constitution provides.” The Constitution provides Freedom OF Religion and that includes freedom from religion if you so choose. Why do the moral majority think their choice is the only right choice and everyone else is a moral leper or somehow lacking in morality? I have very high morals. I just don’t think I have the right to foist them upon others that may have different beliefs. That is what Freedom means. Get it?

          • December 19, 2012 at 5:33 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            You can pray in public Bob as long as you are not a Christian. You can whip out a rug, toss it on a street and start praying to Allah and no one says anything. They do it in Dearborn Michigan all the time. Dearborn happens to have the largest group of arabs outside the middle east living there. About 450 to 500,000 of them. I also saw a story that they just did that is another major city but i cant recall the name

        • December 19, 2012 at 1:02 pm
          Bob says:
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          Agent,

          The way the government under liberals is handling separation of church and state is in my eyes no different than segregation. Apparently it’s ok to make sure that we separate some things but not others.

          The liberals have a habit of doing this.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:24 pm
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          • December 20, 2012 at 12:50 pm
            Agent says:
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            Actually Sargent, I saw the same story you saw. The other major city was the Big Apple – NYC. They had hundreds of them praying in the street next to Wall Street and blocked it with all their prayer rugs while they prayed to Allah. My guess is they were praying to bring down America and Capitalism since the planes didn’t do the trick on 9-11-01. They wanted to build a Mosque a block from ground zero, but that didn’t go anywhere with the outrage from citizens. Their attempt to rub our noses in it.

        • December 19, 2012 at 1:10 pm
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          • December 19, 2012 at 1:14 pm
            Bob says:
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            It was not a comment talking about God allowing shootings. It was a joke playing off of the irony of keeping god out of schools, and then complaining when god isn’t in schools.

            And as you yourself say: it’s just a joke son! Learn to laugh a little and not take things so seriously!

            Such a two faced person you are captain planet.

          • December 19, 2012 at 2:33 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, Planet must have used his magic decoder ring again to come up with his nonsensical post. He should look up the word “irony” in the dictionary before making such a statement.

        • December 19, 2012 at 3:41 pm
          Ron says:
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          God is everywhere, period.

          • December 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm
            Bob says:
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            Ron:

            Your comment is unnecessary and doesn’t make sense.

            It ignores the whole point of anyone’s comments. Ordinarily I would let if fly, but it seeks as if you feel proud you’ve made a comment that you feel everyone needs to learn

            Here’s the scenario: we are all aware god is everywhere. People though aren’t, and what they allow and where is another story. The irony goes off of people, not God. People don’t want God displayed in schools. People are then complaining why God didnt maka an appearance (display) in schools. They want their God with them anywhere but are unwilling to take their God with them anywhere. That’s the irony.

          • December 19, 2012 at 3:51 pm
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            I like my children going to school where belief in God, Christian morals and prayer are not only accepted, but encouraged. So I put my money were my mouth is and send my children to Catholic school. I pay tuition in addition to school taxes and never complain about it.
            I believe that public schools are not the place for religion due to the diversity of students’ backgrounds. It would be virtually impossible to accomodate all religions fairly and equally, so let’s leave themn all out of the public schools.

          • December 19, 2012 at 4:01 pm
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            Bob,

            It was in response “People were wailing about how God could allow this to happen. God’s answer was that he is not allowed in school.”
            The people that ask that question are either atheists or unsure of their own beliefs.
            I believe that God is everywhere, but I also respect other people’s beliefs that may be contradictory to mine. That is one of the things that makes America great.
            The fact that some people do not want God displayed in public schools are not trying to keep him out, they just believe that public schools should not endorse one religion over another.
            If you want God displayed in your children’s school, send them to Christian school. I have.

          • December 21, 2012 at 4:35 pm
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            Ron,

            Absurd comment on so many levels:

            “If you want God displayed in your children’s school, send them to Christian school. I have.”

            Again, my point was that your comment was trying to advertise a point we all already knew was the case, God is everywhere. Now your last sentence posted above is segregation. We don’t seperate out religion entirely. If I want to bring a cross to class and set it on my desk, that’s my right, and it’s not even a God given one.

            You are stating as long as it is in Christian church it’s fine. That’s segregation.

            More to the point on my point: These kids aren’t allowed to bring God with them into class, aren’t allowed to pray in class, and the comment that was stated, that God was kept out is true.

            In this case the Christians want for God to step foot in an area we have all agreed not to let God step foot. It is different to have an environment where we say “anything can happen” however, liberalism does not go this route. Not in any of the Liberal states I mentioned would you be allowed to put a cross on your desk every day of the week, or to do a book report on St Augstine’s writings (for English, which means it does meet the requirements in every single way, except for the fact that it pertains to religion) and that is wrong. We kept God out so to speak, and we want God to help, so to speak.

            I am not stating this “literally” keeps God out, as we know that God is everywhere. But as a Christian, to demand that your God go with you everywhere and to refuse to display God other than once a week on Sunday, and to keep God the hell out of 12 years of your life, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and then demand your God be there at all times, and complain when you perceive that he is not, is absurd.

            And your rebuttle of “God is everywhere. PERIOD FOLKS!!”

            Is just stupid.

      • December 19, 2012 at 4:29 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, I am afraid this society is so sick right now that it defies belief. Examples are all around about man’s inhumanity to man or in this case to children. Morals have declined substantially in the past 20 years. If people aren’t grounded in knowing right from wrong and they become mentally unbalanced, atrocities are sure to follow. This mother in Ct apparently was about to have her son committed and he may have found out about it so she got 4 to the head. For the life of me, I cannot understand why she had all those guns and ammo in the house with a mentally unstable son. She was just asking for it.

        • December 19, 2012 at 5:46 pm
          FFA says:
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          I had not heard that yet. I have a hard time listening to this on the news, seeing the pictures of the slain. All I could see was my gr kids faces on them pictures.

    • December 21, 2012 at 4:59 pm
      Bob says:
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      And we would not help these people by raising taxes.

      The economic output would be hindered enough to offset the revenue gains.

      This is not an opinion like you on the left believe. It is in fact, a fact.

      I can spell this out in more than just a study.

      I could break out the difference accounting for death tax, top marginal rates on income over $250,000, how much money such people would have left over for capital investment, and I can directly show how making an agency would be next to impossible.

      I can also show how families passing on their full inheritance in the income bracket of $250,000 is directly linked to whether a second generation can build a multi million dollar company. Considering a $5 million inheritance, taxed at 50%, you lose 2.5 million. I can also apply capital gains to this equation.

      Let’s say this person inherits $5 million dollars (they are not that wealthy) you can grow $2.5 million in stocks to nearly 11 million dollars by the time 25 years go by. Let’s assume the parent died when the child was 40. When that happens the child will be 65 aka too damn old to grow the 11 million further, and if he passed it on to now the grandchild, it is hit with up to 75% tax. Let’s say we didn’t take capital gains, and we didn’t take inheritance tax.

      Now that $5 million left over could be grown to almost $30 million dollars. Let’s say that the amount of millionaires with $30 million dollars by the end of that generation gap is now near 100%. Each millionaire at that time would have 3 times more income to invest into business. Studies show that people who have inheritances mostly use it to make a business. Now let’s say you tax the revenues off of a $30 million investment in comparison to a $10 million investment. You get 3 times more taxable revenue than you would have at the 55% and the 15% lowered to ZERO than you would get with it at 55% and 15% even if only HALF those inheritance owners performed 1 year’s of business with their $30 million income with NO growth per year.

      The reason republicans are fighting this is not greedy. It isn’t against “Christian” values.

      It’s business, for what’s best for everyone.

      • December 21, 2012 at 5:03 pm
        Bob says:
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        I should also note this assumes they have a 7% annualized rate of return.

        Go use an investment calculator and do the math.

        You can actually assume the tax rates in the equation.

        Adding in the effect of the inheritance tax is easy on the received amount. Combining the effects you remove an amount of capital that is totally insane from a group that you are literally ensuring will never get to the wealthiest level which is a level that will allow them to create even more jobs.

      • December 21, 2012 at 5:34 pm
        Agent says:
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        Bob, I’m afraid that your logic and common sense is lost on people like Libby & Planet who have no economic brain and they actually think raising the marginal rates will increase revenue to the government. They don’t understand that entrepreneurs lay off people or slow their operations down when their marginal rates increase so the net effect is less revenue because there are fewer tax payers paying in. The tax takers have grown and the taxpayers continue to dwindle. The only way to increase reliable revenue is to create more taxpayers. This administration has been very successful in decreasing revenue with their stupid, unfriendly to business tactics. This is not racist, mean spirited or bigoted. It is just common sense.

  • December 19, 2012 at 10:49 am
    FFA says:
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    Sorry – Cant even agree on.

  • December 19, 2012 at 10:55 am
    FFA says:
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    My earlier post in the same forum -

    “The $63.00 per head to start with. The Cap gain when I go to sell. I seem to remember a sales tax on houses.
    Not taxxes, but my inability to limit Corp Officers to my plan. My inabiity to keep my current existing waiting peroid as long as I have it at right now. This is forcing me to go to a part time work force”

    I cant locate your list. These are the three off the top of my head.

    • December 19, 2012 at 11:11 am
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      • December 19, 2012 at 11:44 am
        FFA says:
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        So, the #63.00 tax is just another tax put down on small business outside of OBama Care?
        If the market rebounds to where is was 5 years ago, the cap gain on the house will exceed that. I dont plan on moving any time soon. If I do move, which I want to badly but dont want to divorce more, I would end up keeing the house for rental.
        The cap gain tax effcts me in a way that I now have to work more years to retire with the same amount. It diminishes my expected return.

        My point is that is does affect me personally and for my small business. I get the 2x whammy and for all this, I get to work more years then I intended on just 3 years ago.

        He changed the rules in the middle of the game for me. The plan I laid out years and years ago is trash because of this mess. My plan was to retire between 55 – 60. Live off the renatl income or the sale of the house and the sale of the business in addition to what money I could stash for a rainy day. It was a solid plan. I am sure I am not the only one that was following athat path if not something similar. Now, that plan is in the trash. Work Longer. Work harder. Pay more taxxes is the rough outline Ofnbama put in place for me. Oh, and employ less people too.
        Shed Aquarium announced massive budget cuts that include reduction in personell. More people hitting the unemployment line.

        This jack ass cant even get a budget passed. He screwed me, thats for sure.

        “I know there are additional taxes that will affect us ALL”. He screwed you too.

        • December 19, 2012 at 12:33 pm
          Agent says:
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          Pelosi said we have to pass it to see what is in it. I agree that we have all been screwed.
          Page 50, Section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-US residents, even in they are here illegally.
          Page 58 & 59 – The government will have real time access to an individual’s bank account and will have authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.
          Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for Community Organizations such as ACORN.
          Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax???????
          Page 241 and 253 – Doctors will be paid at the same rate regardless of specialty and the government will set the fees.
          Page 272/section 1145: Cancer treatment will be rationed according to the patient’s age.
          Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “end of life planning” seminar every 5 years – The government will specify which doctors can write an end of life order. Had enough? These are just some of the ones that really stick out in this 2,700 page monster.

          • December 19, 2012 at 12:40 pm
            FFA says:
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            The more I see, the less I like this. I can not agree with any of these provisions.

          • December 19, 2012 at 1:09 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2012 at 1:11 pm
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  • December 19, 2012 at 11:54 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Captain Planet made my point. I am all for helping the needy and against funding the lazy. The problem with Planet and Libby they don’t want to do anything to remove the lazy, the fraud, the bloated expense, the illegals etc.

    Emergency aid should be temporary until the CITIZEN has time to get back on thier feet and become self sufficient. It should work something like unemployment with a certain period of time and then you would need to prove why you can’t find a job and why you need to continue on government assistance. Today we have second and third generation welfare families who think it is their right to collect welfare and medicaid. Not because they need it but because they believe it is their right.

    Illegals should go home to their own country for emergency assistance. If they want to becoma a US citizen, go to immigration and file for citizenship. Go through the process, get a social security card, get a job and assimilate into the American culture and not hang the Mexican flag outside your house.

    So if you think I am wrong about Mexico, go to the internet and look at the pictures of a former US Marine (2 combat terms in Iraq and Afghanistan) who is chained to a bed in a Mexican prison on trumped up charges so they can extort money from the family or US government whoever comes to the table. This is nothing but kidnapping and extortion by the Mexican government.

    I would not travel to that country if they paid me and if we culd get enough other people to cancel travel and boycott Mexican goods, maybe they would let that Marine go home.

    • December 19, 2012 at 12:02 pm
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    • December 19, 2012 at 2:19 pm
      Agent says:
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      Try page 50 Libby if you want to pull this turkey up. I warn you, it may blow up your computer’s memory.

      • December 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm
        Libby says:
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        I have it pulled up. There are 10 Titles that each have a page 50.

        • December 19, 2012 at 2:24 pm
          Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2012 at 2:55 pm
            FFA says:
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            UGHHHHH!

          • December 19, 2012 at 2:59 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, my comment was in referance to your earlier post – “I have it pulled up. There are 10 Titles that each have a page 50″.

            I dont even know how to interpert that. Are there 10 page 50′s?

            Its like we the people are Charlie Brown and OBama is Lucy pulling the ball back so we can all fall on our backs.

            My original argument against this – Too Much Too Fast.

        • December 19, 2012 at 4:32 pm
          Agent says:
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          Perhaps you should pull up all 2,700 pages as the page might have been misnumbered. This is a travesty being visited upon us and it could have been done in less than a hundred and done the right thing for America.

          • December 20, 2012 at 8:16 am
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  • December 19, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby,

    Why should I pay a tax on the sale of my house just because I paid for my house, did not take a second mortgage to buy boats, cars etc and did what I was supposed to do- Be a good credit risk and pay what I owe so that someday, when I retire I can use the sale of my home to help fund my retirement. I will probably down size and keep the difference in cash to help with my retriement.

    Why should I give tha moeny to a government that is as poor at managing moeny as a drunken gambler with an addiction?

    Maybe I should look at the law and draw all the equity out of my home, buy my downsized retirement home for cash and let the banks foreclose on the first home. Then I will have no tax to pay. What a country.

    • December 19, 2012 at 12:03 pm
      Libby says:
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      I don’t personally agree with this particular tax increase, Sarge.

      • December 19, 2012 at 5:40 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        maybe if you had done more research you would have come to the comclusion that this is BAD legislation. Not thought out, impact not researched, businesses impacted, lack of administrative control over the deadbeats just like welfare and medicaid. Not that you would have voted against a Democrat, bloated future costs and for that matter no one knows what the ultimate costs will be. Some speculate 5 to 10 times what the forecast is. By that time we will be broke anyway

        • December 19, 2012 at 6:10 pm
          Agent says:
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          Sargent, this is the mother of LAWS OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES! The reverberations will be felt for years if we are still around. Perhaps the Mayan Calendar will save us from the pain we will dealing with.

    • December 19, 2012 at 1:39 pm
      FFA says:
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      So, he screwed up your retitrement plan too.

      • December 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm
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      • December 19, 2012 at 2:08 pm
        FFA says:
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        Sarge, not libby has his retirement screwed up.

        • December 19, 2012 at 2:09 pm
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  • December 19, 2012 at 5:47 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “That’s not true, Sarge. I’m not for supporting lazy people. But how do we do that? The system is already stretched to the limit and you do not want to provide resources needed in order to cull the herd. So how does it get done? Is it better than more innocent people go hungry and homeless in order to prevent the few that take advantage? It’s a complicated issue that is difficult to manage. That’s all I’m saying.”

    Oh come on Libby, you don’t think that the federal government doesn’t know who the illegal aliens are and what they are mooching each month?
    you don’t think the federal government knows who has been on welfare and medicaid for the past 10, 20 and 30 years- continuously?
    You don’t think the federal government does not have the capacity (There are over 22.1 Million employees) to handle stiff welfare and medicaid enforcement?

    Check out this link, here is a 4.5 to soon be a $5 billion dollar problem that the dems don’t want to address.

    You have been drinking to much of the Democrap kool aid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYSy2dtFOjs

    • December 19, 2012 at 6:14 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargent, I have a good solution to the Gun Control freaks out there. We allow all people that actually pay a Federal Income Tax to retain possession of their firearms. We confiscate all guns from people that don’t pay Federal Income Tax. If we make it a crime for them to own and possess weapons and compel them to turn them in, I think we might notice a tremendous decline in crime, don’t you think?

      • December 19, 2012 at 6:37 pm
        FFA says:
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        You may be on to something there. Do you think the Ct nut job paid taxxes?

        • December 20, 2012 at 8:32 am
          Libby says:
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          • December 20, 2012 at 11:13 am
            FFA says:
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            Libby, its X Mass. Lighten up. Stick your ACLU card back in your pocket. Look in the mirror and smile.

            Now, everyine tell your self this – Its a good day to have a great day!

            Merry X Mass to all. May your God keep you safe and out of harms way. My thoughts and prayers will be with the folks in CT that have been through hell & back.

          • December 20, 2012 at 11:22 am
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          • December 20, 2012 at 11:40 am
            FFA says:
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            When I am in a foul mood, I go home for – well – not lunch, but it is around noon (er). Then I have lunch. Seems to brighten my day. Just a suggestion.

          • December 20, 2012 at 12:52 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm
            FFA says:
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            Tell the boss you got a lead – a hot jump and run prospect. Need to go on a fact finding just to find the facts are not a good fit.

          • December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            That would be lying to and cheating from my boss. I won’t do that.

          • December 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, When I need a break from the craziness, I tell the office I am going to do inspections and then go play golf. The day has to have no critical items going on, but sometimes golf is called for just to clear the mind and relieve the stress. They say a bad day on the course is better than a good day at the office. I like your idea as well.

          • December 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm
            Libby says:
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            Why do you feel it necessary to lie to your staff about it? If my boss wants to go golfing in the middle of the day, who am I to question him? You must have a guilty conscience.

          • December 20, 2012 at 4:27 pm
            FFA says:
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            We are an opinionaited bunch, arent we? No one is going to change our minds nor our beliefs.

          • December 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm
            FFA says:
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            If your inspecting Greens, is it lying?

          • December 21, 2012 at 8:28 am
            Libby says:
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            No, then it’s just quibbling.

        • December 20, 2012 at 10:25 am
          Agent says:
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          This guy was a mom moocher and as far as anyone can tell, he was not employable at anything. I am sure he was covered under his mom’s health insurance so he could be treated for his mental illnesses.

          • December 20, 2012 at 10:26 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, No guilty conscience here. Do you have a guilty conscience about blogging on this forum all day instead of working for your boss? I have written business today, met with a marketing rep and did some agency analysis and still found some time to inform you even if as you say I am a racist and bigot. Merry Christmas to you.

          • December 20, 2012 at 5:04 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good one FFA. Yes, I was inspecting the greens at my club. They have been let go dormant for the winter and are a lovely shade of tan. We do get to play year round down here with a few exceptions in January and February. One of the many perks of living in Texas. We joke that we wouldn’t be playing in Minnesota or Wisconsin from about November to late April because that is the frozen tundra up there.

          • December 20, 2012 at 5:15 pm
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            Glad something positive is going on somewhere in this (insurance)world. I found I lost another commercial account today. The owner passed and the business shut down. Thats three lost due to death in the last half.

            Then i wrote a $1M house.

            Weather in Chicago? Raining. ICK… Supposed to be turning to snow soon. My Nephew in Janesville says he is getting burried. My brother at the lake in Central WI wont answer the phone. Snowmobiling is the logical conclusion. You got golf. My Br smobiling. I get stuck in rain!

          • December 21, 2012 at 8:30 am
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            No I don’t feel guilty, Agent. I can manage to work my job and fire off beauties to help keep you on the straight and narrow.

          • December 21, 2012 at 10:21 am
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            Agent – “I was inspecting the greens at my club”. Could say WITH my clubs.

  • December 20, 2012 at 11:15 am
    FFA says:
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    Libby, you forgot evil. No matter, it in no way justifies or explains what he did.

    At 20, no way can mom have him committed.

    • December 20, 2012 at 11:24 am
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      • December 20, 2012 at 1:14 pm
        FFA says:
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        You’ve had experience with Substance Abuse. If its you personally, call your sponsor.

        • December 20, 2012 at 1:17 pm
          Libby says:
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          What?

          • December 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm
            FFA says:
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            “Good people can do evil things, Agent. Hate the deed, not the doer”
            NA, AA and Alanon. Unfortunatly, I have had personal experience. A quote right out of the family support materials they hand out. If I remember correctly, almost word for word. Unfortunaly, he never learned. Maybe he will over the next 6 – 12 years. Hopefully, the State of IL will get through his thick skull.

            Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Words that I’ll never forget where I heard / read them first.

  • December 20, 2012 at 11:57 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “The three of you are so ridiculous, I can’t even respond to you. Please. Take your bigoted, hate-filled, holier than thou ideas and stick them right up your ass.”

    Back in the office for a quick lunch and noticed Libby’s “mean spirited” (I think that is what she calls it)post. This proves my above post- when dems and especially liberals can’t come up with anything to discuss rationally they post nasty hate mail, kicking and sreaming.

    One minute she says that my lighthearted humorous note about Christmas lights is insulting (mean spirited) and the next minute she tells everyone to ” Stick it up you as*). One minute she grew up with in a West Point Col. home and the next minute she has lived in “The Hood”. One minute she lives in Colorado the next minute she doesn’t. One minute she is calling people racist and the next minute she is spreading racial innuendo.
    She must have gone to the Bill Clinton/ Barack Obama seminar on handling untruth statements and diplomacy.

    I mean even Bill Clinton kept a calm straight face when he lied about Monica Lewinski.

    • December 20, 2012 at 12:36 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargent, you will have to forgive Libby since she is “conflicted”. She calls herself a fiscal conservative and liberal on social issues. She doesn’t realize she can’t have it both ways. The Social issues and all the worthless programs passed in the past few decades are a big reason why the country is failing fiscally. When she loses an argument like she has many times on this blog, she resorts to things like telling us to stick it up our a–. This is a common tactic of left wingers who like to demonize someone that has a different approach and solution to a problem than she does. She actually thinks Obama has been “noble and honest” with the American people. He and Slick Willy are the masters of deception and lies.

      • December 20, 2012 at 12:57 pm
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        • December 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm
          Sargent Major says:
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          I observe the libs and the administration and report the facts, Just the facts libby
          Merry Christmas

          • December 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm
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  • December 20, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    The CT shootings were deplorable and all of America mourns as not many can understand the loss of life of a young innocent child.

    While the issue focuses on gun control I believe this is a sociatel issue. The guns used were just a mean for evil. He could have done the same thing through various other means. The problems are much broader to include one of the Democraps biggest supporters- Hollywood- Nothing is being said about the continued escalation of violence in movies. Violence so bad it is worse than some combat simulations. What is Obama going to do about that? he has said nothing. Ishe going to ban violence in movies?

    How about the contiued escalated violence in video games. I have a neighbor that has let their 6 and 8 year old boys play all of the call of duty games. That desenitizes kids to violence. I have not heard Obama say anything about that. Is he going to ban video games

    How about Mental illness. I will be the first to admit that the man in CT should have been in a mental hospital. In fact name me one mass shooting including Columbine in 1999 that has not involved a mentally ill person? Years ago )I beleive in the Clinton Admin) this country deinstitutionalized the mentally ill and closed mental hospitals because “They should be set free and treated with medicine” So what do these bleeding linerals who let them out expect?
    The gun was the means and is the easiest target to place blame. the mother, knowing she had a mentally ill child, should have had them in a locked gun safe. She did not and made a tragic, deadly mistake. We should all continue to pray for those CT families

    • December 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm
      Libby says:
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    • December 20, 2012 at 1:07 pm
      FFA says:
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      Well said sarge.
      To carry the discussion one step further, all the refrence to sex on TV. I remember a day when Bra ads showed a woman fully dressed. The A word and the B word were not allowed on TV.

      Its no womder why we have to hand out Birth COntroll and Morning After pills.

      When my 8 yr old grand son wants to buy a BB gun for his younger brothers (6 & 4) for X Mass, something is wrong. When his dirt bag dad send him home with a bb gun for his 6th bday and his mom dont hesitate to ignore my request to get it out of the house right then and there and never bring it back so his younger brother gets shot with it, problem goes a lot deeper then gun controll. When dad #2 found out about that, he made sure it was no longer an issue. He is a dirt bag dead beat, but at least he has some common sense.

    • December 21, 2012 at 10:25 am
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      It seems today that all you see is violence in movies and sex on tv. Where are all those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?

  • December 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Once again “mean spirited libby” wants to question the timeframe for deinstitutionalization and has nothng to say about the problem. If you really want to talk history and Timeframe you could say that it began in the 50′s and escalated when Johnson signed into law- Medicaidd and Medicare. They started defunding state mental hospitals and began putting them on Medicaid and welfare forever. However, there continued to be mental hospitals for a long period of time until they mostly disappeared in the ninties with no plan tp protect the public. That was done knowing that 50 to 60% of those released ere diaagnosed with schizophrenia.

    How is that Libby? Merry Christmas!

    • December 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm
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      • December 21, 2012 at 9:45 am
        Agent says:
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        We all know that Clinton could do no wrong during that very long eight years. People praise him for balancing the budget, ending welfare as we knew it and having a good economy. They seem to forget that the Republican Party had to shut his government down for a period until he caved on spending cuts needed to balance the budget. Where was the criticism on all the Terror attacks we had under his watch? First World Trade Center attack, Kobar Towers in Saudia Arabia, USS Cole, African embassy bombings. All he did was bomb an aspirin factory in Sudan and send a few cruise missiles over to bomb an empty Bin Laden camp. Yes, this Impeached but not removed President was really great and is a true stateman.

        • December 21, 2012 at 10:01 am
          Sargent Major says:
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          Don’t forget Monica Lewinski (“I never had sex with that women- Ms. Lewinski”), Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Kathleen Tilley etc, etc, etc. they don’t call him “slick Willie” for nothing.

          Don’t forget he lied to a federal grand jury.

          Don’t forget his impeachment one of only two preseidents to ever get impeached.

          Don’t forget his approval of some of the biggest business busts in history including his approval of the daimler purchase of Chrysler Corp a disaster.

          • December 21, 2012 at 10:51 am
            Agent says:
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            And Obama doubled down by bailing out Chrysler and letting Fiat in as a part owner. GM is an unmitigated disaster with their stock falling 50% since the first of the year and the government is going to sell their hundreds of million shares at a loss of about $14 billion. The auto industry hasn’t exactly been “roaring” back as he would have us think. GM would really like to shirk the label as Government Motors, but they have a big stigma attached to them that will linger for years. A lot of people don’t remember that the slickmeister also left Bush with a recession and the Bush Tax cuts was starting to work to create jobs and resurrect the economy about the time 9/11 hit. I am sick of liberals who criticize for having two wars on the credit card. They would have preferred that we just apologize for making Muslims angry and promise not to do it again. The American People were angry at the time for being attacked and they wanted their President to take action and Congress backed him up.

        • December 21, 2012 at 10:03 am
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  • December 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm
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    Agent, You are right. The libs don’t want to address the issue. They want to put blame on something they don’t like. It will be very interesting to see how they approach this.It is my belief that banning assault weapons will do nothing to end mass shootings. Are they also going to ban shotguns hunters use? what is to keep a nut from using a shotgun with double 00 buckshot to commit the crime? I know for a fact that a shotgun with double 00 buck would kill as many as an assualt weapon at close range. One estimate is that there are over 225 million guns in the US. It would take more than 100 years to eliminate guns in America and who or what is to keep those bent on committing an evil act. For example. The federal ban on assault weapons was in effect when those two evil doers went into Columbine hgh school and killed those students. Check that out Libby. This is a societal issue and my bet is they won’t deal with the problem. They will beat up what is easy to attack and they don’t like. They must deal with all factes of this problem or it won’t go away.

    • December 20, 2012 at 3:50 pm
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      • December 20, 2012 at 5:27 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Oh Libby, I am glad you have finally saw the light and recognize the democraps and left wing nut agenda. We have have not changed, you just woke up.

        Hallelujah! It is a Christmas miracle

    • December 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargent, Have you ever heard the term Hakim’s Razor? It means that the simplist answer is often the best. Of course this makes too much sense for politicians to understand and we have to put Libby in that category as well. All we have to do is take the guns from all the non-taxpayers (47%) and let the real taxpayers that are paying the freight keep theirs. I bet we could confiscate several million guns in the process and no telling how many armed robberies we can prevent and thousands of murders and assaults each year. This is not racist or mean spirited, just a fact.

      • December 20, 2012 at 3:59 pm
        Libby says:
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        That’s a start. I’ll take it.

        • December 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, when I floated this idea in an earlier post, I was called racist, mean spirited and bigoted. Make up your mind. You also promised to lighten up, but your bad mood has been in evidence all day. I am just thrilled that the President has appointed our wonderful VP Biden to oversee the legislation coming out to ban weapons. We know what a wonderful job he did overseeing the Stimulus money dispensed to cities and states and not creating jobs except the temporary jobs that have now disappeared. How many cities do we have taking bankruptcy or nearing bankruptcy in this country now because they blew through their money without changing their operation? Detroit sticks out like a sore thumb, right Sargent?

          • December 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            You have to understand, with Libby it is the thought of the moment post.

          • December 21, 2012 at 8:25 am
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  • December 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Agent, I am with you to eliminate guns from people who don’t pay taxes, are mentally ill, have any kind of criminal record including domestic violence and DUI. Most of those are covered now, at least in my state.

    Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of democraps who own guns, a lot of them. That is a problem for Obama. It is less of an issue for Republicans. If you recall the last time gun control was an issue the democraps lost a lot of seats in both the congress and the senate. Far more democraps use guns than do Republicans and more use them illegally. So while I tink it is a good idea I don’t think that the administration will consider anything like that. They will window dress the problem, claim they took on all the gun advocates and did great things with gun control while they pat themselves on the back and drink champagne with George Clooney.

    Unless they take on Hollywood, video game industry, mental health, tougher incarceration etc. Nothing will change

    • December 20, 2012 at 6:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      Right on Sargent. If we are still here tomorrow after the Mayan Calendar date, I will catch you then. If not, it has been nice blogging with you and giving the other side you know what.

    • December 21, 2012 at 9:48 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, if you were being magnanimous yesterday, I would hate to see your hateful, mean spirited side. If you are married, I bet your husband has to walk on eggshells around the house to keep from setting you off.

      • December 21, 2012 at 10:06 am
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    • December 21, 2012 at 2:13 pm
      Agent says:
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      Gee Sargent, I wonder why Homeland Security needs to buy several hundred million rounds of high powered bullets and weapons. Should we be worried about Martial Law and their legion of brown shirts? I have a business partner who went out and bought an AR-15 Assault rifle with two 30 round magazines the other day. He is a hunter and a bit of a gun freak and wanted to get it before it was banned. His motto is to be prepared.

  • December 20, 2012 at 5:58 pm
    FFA says:
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    Libby Said “The three of you are so ridiculous”.
    I say we change our names on this blog to Moe, Larry & Curley.
    NYUK NYUK NYUK!!!!!
    I think I am going home tonight to teach the kids the Curley Shuffle.

    • December 20, 2012 at 6:16 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sorry FFA. I can’t go along with that. The Three Stooges were in the Moron category and that is reserved for the liberals out there who have an IQ of 50-60. Planet with his magic decoder ring comes to mind if you remember that.

      • December 21, 2012 at 10:15 am
        FFA says:
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        A Failed attempt at sarcastic humor.
        I did go home and introduce the Gr Kids to the Curly Shuffle.

        • December 21, 2012 at 10:20 am
          Sargent Major says:
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          LOL

  • December 21, 2012 at 10:19 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Hello Agent and FFA, we are still here and the Mayan Calendar is up. I heard an archaologist who had a great theory on why the Mayan calendar ends today.

    He said that while the Mayans were gazing into their crystal ball they found out that America reelected Barack Obama, got disgusted quit working on the calendar and tossed in the towel.

    Merry Christmas!!!

    • December 21, 2012 at 10:32 am
      FFA says:
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      LOL back at that one. Maybe that should be the theme today, nothing but joking around.
      Agent is probably out on an inspection. Planet Snowed in, Ct in mourning, Libby traveling back to Denver for a broncos game.

      • December 21, 2012 at 11:00 am
        Agent says:
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        Actually FFA, I am in today. I will play tomorrow and Monday and hopefully break par both times. Golf is a great stress reliever. I pretend the ball is the head of a liberal and it just goes farther that way.

        • December 21, 2012 at 11:31 am
          FFA says:
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          Welcome to the work day. Nothing but Robo dialed calls here today so far. Dusting off the desk. Sending in a marketing list for the Co Op marketing plan. Maybe lunch with others in the building and then retire to a friendly poker game in the back office. Few minor piddle things that I have been pushing aside.
          Finally got Santa nailed down for a visit to the full family xmass party 37 people. Perked up my dads holiday spirit. He needs a shot of feel good something or another. Crown Royal, here we come!
          Looking forward to some good Foot Ball this week end. Barely got a dusting of snow where I am. Everyone around me has got at least a ground covering. My niece at UW Madison got burried – 14.4″

          Good luck on your quest for sub par.

          Mayor Daliys brother announced his bid for the Gov Seat. Could be the best chance for the dummerthencraps to retain the seat. We will see what Chicago does. As we all know, they run the state.

          • December 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, It sounds like your family has a good one planned. We have to travel to see the kids and grandkids to Flower Mound, Tx which is a yuppie suburb of Dallas. Should be a good time.

            My game depends on my putting. Hard to make those 4 footers on dormant bermuda greens, but I will make my best attempt. Have a Merry Christmas.

    • December 21, 2012 at 10:56 am
      Agent says:
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      Sargent, Yes we are still here. I don’t know why people were trusting some Indians in the jungle who couldn’t even predict their own demise. I have been there on vacation and they left some impressive ruins, but it has never been explained on why they just disappeared. I saw a cute cartoon the other day. It had their circular stone calendar and next to it was an Oreo cookie which was very similar. Oreo said, not to worrry.

      • December 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm
        FFA says:
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        Curve ball – why not huh? Moms being taken to the hospital by ambulance. Something with the heart. I would have laid money down on my dad having an issue.

        Need to go. Wanted to make sure i wish everyone a great holiday season. Tell the ones you love that you do love them. You never know when it would be the last chance you get.

    • December 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargent, I heard the great news on the radio today that the Marine Corporal that has been in prison in Mexico since August is finally being released in time for Christmas. That has been a trumped up travesty since day one. He was chained to a bed in solitary for much of the time. The family said the State Dept told them there was nothing they could do. The President & Hillary have been totally silent on this problem. Only Republicans calling for a boycott of Mexico brought enough pressure on them to get this release. Semper Fi Sargent.

      • December 21, 2012 at 3:39 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Put a few soldiers on the job and this Marine would have been let loose a long time ago.

        • December 21, 2012 at 4:11 pm
          Agent says:
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          This wasn’t exactly Iran or Afghanistan that he was held in. Mexico is our next door neighbor and trading partner and the recipient of American aid. If Hillary had been doing her job or our President his, they could have gotten on the phone and had this poor Marine released in 24 hours if they wanted to. Then, they turned around and lied about Benghazi and still haven’t come clean and 4 Americans are dead. They are as sorry as can be and we are being served poorly in just about every area.

    • December 21, 2012 at 3:35 pm
      Agent says:
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      Now that we have dodged the Mayan disaster, all we have to do is dodge the impending fiscal cliff awaiting us in less than 2 weeks. Our sorry politicians keep growling at each other back and forth. The President keeps saying it is his way or the highway and expects to blame the failure on Republicans causing the mess. He may even throw GW under the bus again. Meanwhile, our marginal rates will go up, Sequestration will begin and an even worse recession will soon begin. It will be good for the tar, feathers and rail manufacturers since they may sell out their stock.

  • December 21, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    Water Bug says:
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    Come on Libby- I haven’t seen any more nonsense from you defending the UK’s national health scheme. It has killed many thousands of innocent Brits.

    BTW Having just watched Wayne LaPierre’s speech this morning I joined the NRA.

    • December 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm
      FFA says:
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      She is probably on her way to Denver.

  • December 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Water Bug
    You are correct, thousands have died because of a “national health scheme” which I believe is what they call it. Same in Canada etc.

    I also watched LaPierre’s speach and thought he made many valid points. From what I read there are about 8,000 people joining the NRA over what the enrollment had been. Tat is new enrollments. This will be interesting to watch.

    I believe one alternative to paid police officers might be retired police officers, retired military, MPs for example and ex or retired DEA, ATF, FBI. Border Patrol etc. They people could volunteer to take shfts in schools while concealing their weapon, wear plain clothes and the students are no wiser. It is just someone who works in the school as part of the maintenance team. If I were retired, I would volunteer and might volunteer anyway. Possibly early in the morning. The school system might be able to offer some sort of stipen like pay for the concealer weapons permit renewals, range time to stay qualified etc.

    Just a thought

  • December 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    Water Bug says:
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    I agree with you Sargent Major. Retired police and military would do nicely for school security. I am considering volunteering but all I have in the way of firearms right now is a 17th Century double barrel pistol that would probably blow up if I used it.I will visit a couple of gun stores this weekend to shop for a suitable weapon and to sign up for training in its use.

    May God bless all IJ posters and I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    • December 21, 2012 at 4:56 pm
      Agent says:
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      I liked the retired Marine standing outside the school in Tennessee and all the people that were shaking his hand and thanking him for his service. Looked a heck of a lot better than the Black Panther dude standing in front of the polling place the last election.



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