“…but it is not unusual to see young civilian computer whiz kids with purple hair, a tie-dyed shirt and blue jeans.”
Now, that sounds like my kind of military uniform!
And, I’d like to clarify so I am not misconstrued, I’m supportive and thankful of all men and women in any US military uniform. Thank you to all of you!
Is the Obama Administration hiring them to spy on terrorist or us? Just an honest question. New York Times editorial staff issued a joint statement yesterday claiming “The Obama administration has lost any and all credibility it had left”. So with that in mind, and all of the political attacks on all of our liberties from Obama, I think it is an honest question.
In light of all the scandals from IRS to gaining info on phone records of all Americans, this may just be another step of an over reaching government establishing fascism. What is to keep them from monitoring more than just the military of our enemies? The NSA is already monitoring phone calls and emails. This all tells me that our government is out of control and needs to be reigned in.
Not that this article has anything to do with the IRS, but I would like to mention the person who made the initial decision to pull all the tea party applications is a conservative republican. Also, the reason he gave is legitimate. When auditing or reviewing, it is always best to have the same person or group of people assigned related filings. I’m an accountant, and that is the way we do things.
Sarah,
In my honest opinion, the Obama administration is not spying on us any more than was the Bush Administration. Remember, the greatest attack on our liberties in our lifetime was the Patriot Act, which was signed by President Bush. So let’s not think Obama is alone in this.
I am not blaming Bush, just indicating that if anyone does not think the government has been monitoring cyber threats and utilizing technology in an attempt to stop terrorists’ plots, escpecially since 9/11, they are naive.
The funniest part of this is that if they were not taking this step, and we suffered a severe loss, Obama would be blamed for not doing enough to protect the country from these threats.
Just remember the Bengazi attack. There is no question that his administration failed to do enough to protect those Americans overseas in addition to how they addressed it afterward. Maybe this is an indication theat Obama and his administration learned something from that and are trying to be more proactive in protecting the USA from another attack.
Sarah, when all the layers of this onion are finally peeled off, we will see how bad this administration really is. They thought they had a mandate to do whatever they wanted and are shocked people are outraged about the pervasive government intrusion into our lives. They have been lying and lying and have now been caught up in their lies. Remember the story on the IRS they put out about it was just a couple of rogue agents in Cincinnati responsible. Now, it has come out that they were directed from DC to do all this and got regular reports on the misdeeds. Every layer of this government is rotten to the core.
I’ve always loved science fiction, but I always believed it was just that: fiction. Guess not. And, as Captain Planet says, thank-you to all the men and women who serve. I value my freedom and know that it is not free; it comes at a cost.
I think we all can agree that we should thank the military service members overseas for keeping us safe.
These computer hackers are not real service members we are talking about. They are not in any harms way, These are nerds that never left their basements and sent viruses to others computers for fun. Now the government wants to learn how to do it. WILL IT EVER BE USED ON A PRIVATE ENTITY IN THE USA? I never thought the IRS was used for political reasons or that the US Attorney General would subpoena records of private reporters because they did not like the news that they were reporting. Or the Government would lie to us about a National Security Issues for purely political reasons, Benghazi bad movie deal. This Government should not be trusted as it is being run today!
Sarah, you are right. We love our service members who protect us against our enemies. They are sworn to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. The question is – Who are our domestic enemies these days?
Sarah, one of the most heartwarming things I have seen is people meeting returning soldiers at airports and clapping for them as they come by and thanking them for their service. GW & Laura Bush have been out there greeting them, but I haven’t seen any of the liberal crowd doing the same thing. Hmm! What is wrong with that picture?
How would you know, Agent? You can spot a liberal from a mile away??? I’ll have you know I thank a soldier for his service EVERY TIME I SEE ONE. And I signed up with the USO to go to the airport and do just that very thing. So stuff your liberal comments like we are not patriotic and don’t love our country and our troops. We bleed every bit as red, white and blue as you do.
June 7, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Sarah – are you serious?
“I never thought the IRS was used for political reasons… “The IRS has been used for political reasons as far back as Calvin Coolidge (abusers include Coolidge, FDR, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, and Bush.)
and “Or the Government would lie to us about a National Security Issues for purely political reasons, Benghazi bad movie deal.” Ever heard of Oliver North?
I know the liberals on this site don’t watch the news, but the latest story on the NSA monitoring of virtually everything electronic should be a wake up call for all Americans. This is truly Big Brother on steroids.
Why are you pointing fingers at the liberals on this one? Not trying to fight with you, but we all know where the Patriot Act came from. If you are mad that this is happening under the Obama administration, I would like to give you a sage piece of advice, “hate the game, not the player.”
Nebraskan, the Patriot Act came into being after we had over 3,000 murdered on 9/11. It was truly bi-partisan in Congress and everyone wanted to find Terrorists who were trying to harm us. Initially, the idea was to find and monitor phone calls going back and forth to Middle Eastern countries to foil attacks. Now, it has evolved to monitor all Americans calls. Computers are being hacked to glean info. The latest example is Cheryl Atkinson of CBS who had her office and home computer hacked when she was reporting on stories that might be unflattering to this administration. It will be interesting to see where that story goes and who did it.
To be honest, I feel like the world had flipped upside down. You are angry about this, and I figured you would be ok with this type of anti-terrorism business based on why it all started and Libby is the one saying it’s no big deal.
Nebraskan – I am so misunderstood. I am not saying things are “no big deal.” I just don’t get caught up in the hysteria like most folks do on this blog. I say, settle down and let’s look at things logically. If something doesn’t make sense to me, it’s probably because it’s nonsense. I can’t see the government, even though they may have the capability, giving a rat’s ass what I say to my Aunt Bev or my sister-in-law. Unless they want to hear how beautiful my niece & nephew are or want a new recipe for bakeless cheesecake.
Libby–you’re not misunderstood…we all understand just how liberal you are.
June 11, 2013 at 2:03 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
I guess if being liberal means I don’t jump on every bandwagon that floats through the internet to regurgitate some bullshit I heard against Republicans. Liberals don’t do that. Rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, fanatical, right-wingers do that. Look in the mirror. You’ll see one there.
June 11, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Patti Cake in the East says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Geez, Libby! What happened to your ‘I’m a liberal and I love everyone and everything’ attitude? You sound awfully angry…perhaps some time off would do you good?
June 11, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Yeah, well, maybe I am angry. Since when did being a liberal start meaning I don’t believe in God, don’t love my country, and am pro every welfare recipient in the country? Since rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, fanatical, right-wingers starting saying it was so. And it’s not. Because I believe in equal rights for all, I’m some kind of pariah trying to take away your rights and your money? I don’t want ANYTHING from you or anyone else. I’ve taken care of myself almost my entire life and have done a pretty good job of it.
When I was younger, I thought of everything in black and white. Now that I’m older and have had a chance to listen to many, many different views, I try to have a little more compassion and see more than one perspective on situations. You know, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
So that makes me a liberal? Then I’m happy to be one.
June 11, 2013 at 1:53 pm
Patti Cake in the East says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Just my opinion, but perhaps Verizon being the largest of them all has something to do with it…they have many more millions of subscribers than, say, Sprint has..
I am grateful to the former NSA analyst/patriot that made the limited disclosure which, for the first time, gave us hard documentary evidence of what we previously had to assume– namely, the NSA intercepts all phone calls and collects all data on all networks, and it stores that data permanently. NSA officials lied in Congressional testimony, and the full extent of programs/capabilities has been kept secret from even the Senate intelligence committee. The government has shredded the fourth amendment, and it appears the people must now decide what kind of country they want to live in. A country that does not highly value privacy is one which does not support liberty.
One must seriously question this new cyber announcement. Prior contracts were revealed showing government orders for ‘personality management software’ – a program which would create/maintain a large number of unique and legitimate-looking social media and online forum user accounts and place all of those accounts under the control of a US intelligence analyst. With this tool, the US will increase its (already extensive) domestic propoganda capabilities, as a small number of analysts would be able to affect public perception of a large number of people by strategically using the various online personas to steer early stages of online discussions.
Wow! Conspiracy theories abounding! Spy versus spy. 007. Shoe phones and all kinds of other wizardry. Those are scary, scary imaginings. At least I hope they are imaginary…
But they’re not, Libby. It would be one thing if all the captured data including this post – “Hello NSA!”)were handled by able-minded people. Having known a fair share of folks in government service, I categorize them broadly in two camps: 1. not-the-brightest-bulbs-on-tree or worse, 2. blow-hard know-everythings with chips on their shoulders. Scary for me to think these are the kinds of folks who have this info at their command.
Not that you’ll believe me, but many government employees are intelligent and do their job because they care. Also, I don’t know anyone in my department with a chip on their shoulder. We actually give a d@mn.
The sad thing, State Regulator, is this. Most people in government begin their careers giving a damn but end up getting jaded and stop giving a damn. It’s easier to ‘follow the crowd’ on the road that’s more traveled than it is to stay on their own course no matter what and do the right thing.
Patti,
How many of the 4+ million government workers do you know to make that assertion? Maybe if people stop chastizing them and calling them lazy, unintelligent sheep, they would not become so jaded.
I believe people in nearly all occuptions, public and private, start out with a geeat attitude then become complacent and/or jaded. In my experience, this happens most often to doctors and teachers.
June 11, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Agent says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Has anyone ever tried to talk to the IRS? I had to call the wonderful Cincinnati office one time because we did an agency merger and changed our Tax ID #. It was like talking to a brick wall. You can’t believe how much red tape there was to do a simple change like that. Then, they still screwed up our records and our accountant had to deal with them on the agency return. What a nightmare.
June 12, 2013 at 9:25 am
state regulator says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
“The crowd” in MY DOI is about doing things the right way. Again, don’t assume all government employees do not care. Just like it’s wrong for regulators to assume that all agents are morons because those we have met are morons. Just sayin’.
June 12, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Judging by the number of Agent morons on this blog, I feel for you Regulator! There are alot of them out there. It makes it hard for the rest of us to hold our heads up high.
June 11, 2013 at 6:48 pm
nomesaneman says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
I believe you, SR. Sorry about that. I should have been more specific – it’s the people in the IT department that scare me. I picture them like “Simon” from BBC “The Office”:
Libby, might I recommend a good book for you to read? 1984 by George Orwell. It was required reading for me and I had to do a book report on it. The whole premise is what this country and government is moving towards, complete control of the citizens. In the book, it was a drab existence and people were monitored at work and home and the only information people got was what the Ministry of Truth put out. People were like zombies and totally brainwashed and told constantly how great Big Brother was. Everything a Progressive Liberal government does is about controlling the population. All we have to do is look at the last 4 1/2 years to see one thing after another. How many scandals do you need for proof to see what is going on?
Read it, Agent. Wrote the book report. Got the t-shirt. I am truly amazed at the number of paranoid people in this country. If I am naive, let me stay that way! I am so much happier than you guys. Build your bomb-shelters, stock your supplies, buy your ammunition, and settle in. I’ll be reading a book (maybe 1984 again) on the porch, in the sunshine, sipping a cold one.
Keep on sipping that Kool Aid Libby rocking on your porch. You are about as unconcerned a citizen that we see on this forum. The country is going to he– in a handbasket and you are still singing a happy tune. I believe your post recently that said you just don’t care anymore.
How can we pursue happiness without freedom? This country was founded that way and our forefathers had quite enough of tyranny from the king of England who was oppressing them, taxing them and trying to control their lives. That is one of the biggest reasons for the American Revolution and why our Constitution guarantees the freedoms we have. When you have a government seeking to control every aspect of the citizens lives, freedoms we enjoy disappear and that is not a good thing in the long run.
June 12, 2013 at 11:16 am
Patti Cake in the East says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Libby, you read the book, but did you COMPREHEND the book? And, if you’re out on your porch reading another book in the sunshine, make sure not to drink anymore of the Kool-aid.
Thanks for the tip PC. And I did score extra high on my comprehension skills in school.
June 11, 2013 at 2:15 pm
Shari Lewis says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Again – this was started under the Patriot Act – Bush initiated. I didn’t like unwarranted searches then and don’t like it now. Crazy though that now that more information is out about what’s being done, people are screaming! It’s been going on for YEARS! Were you asking people to read 1984 in 2001 when the Patriot act was put into force?
And if the Obama Administration stopped the checking and there was another terrorist attack, it would be Obama’s fault. You can’t have it both ways.
Can we all just finally agree that it doesn’t matter what President started it? I don’t like Bush OR Obama, and that shouldn’t matter at all. The thing to focus on is whether we want to be controlled by an all-knowing, all-seeing and ever-present entity that is not even elected.
The comments on this article regarding spying, the Patriot Act, and NSA are quite entertaining. Although some like Ron and ExciteBike seem to get it, most others seem to just be determined to stick to that party line and support the Democrat or Republican way. So much so in fact that they are completely reversing their normal stances just to bend to their own political biases regarding the situation. This is a great example of how the political party system as it stands now is a major factor standing in the way of progress, which IMO means limiting the scope of Gov’t but it limits anyone’s idea of progress except for lobbyist and benefactors of crony capitalism.
I for one find it very offensive that all American’s are considered potential terrorist and it pains me to see how a staggering major of society can’t seem to stomach what comes with freedom and liberty and rather sacrifice it for what they call “security.”
I see your point, LiveFree. I just don’t see how we can un-know what we already know. Making it illegal didn’t stop them, as they are the very people making the laws and enforcing them. So what are we to do? Gnash teeth and sit in a corner? How can we un-do it?
I see your point as well Libby. Although, I am not sure if your questions was asking how to un-do the current political party system or the Spying (NSA/Patriot Act). I will give my opinion on both but to be frank in both cases I don’t really know. I don’t pretend to have a great solution just my honest current (meaning subject to change) opinions. It won’t be easy to change anything as you said (or implied) the same people are making the rules, enforcing the rules, and breaking them all at the same time. So it is hard to keep anyone accountable.
But in regards to the spying stuff, I think just removing the Patriot Act and adhering more to the constitution on search and seizure would be a decent, if not minimal, start. I am also of the un-popular opinion that groups like the CIA and the NSA are, if not then parallel to, America terrorist agencies that perform the same terror acts they claim to be trying to put an end to. I mean look how the government reacting when they were accusing China for their cyber hacking/spying on U.S. gov’t and then ironically the story breaks that the U.S. gov’t (NSA) is cyber hacking/spying on U.S. citizens. I think another step in the right direction is for the U.S. to take a more non-interventionist stance and a less empire building one. I believe that would eliminate a lot of the need for the spying (less wars threats and less blow back from invading/occupying). It is more than interesting that the era of Democracy, all in the name of “peace”, has arguable been the bloodiest in all human history.
As for political parties that is a whole other story and a lot harder to change because everyone is set in their ways and very few are open to differing view points. it has more to do with todays society and that is why in my opinion it has to start with the people. The people are ultimately responsible for political ignorance.
Totally in agreement with both comments, LF. I, too, think we should stop trying to take care of the world and spend more time concentrating on our own problems. It is not out business to make the entire globe a democracy. Hell, we don’t do a very good job of it ourselves.
And, I think there would be more “working across the aisle” if there was less vitriol and rage being spewn from both sides. I have to admit, head hanging, I have been guilty of the same behavior of which I speak. I could try to justify it by saying “they started it first” but that would in all actuality be as silly as it sounds.
I think Captain said it best when he said he can disagree without being disagreeable. I need to work on that.
It is also not out business to make dictatorships either although the current policy seems to be doing a good job of it in Egypt, Libya and Syria. We seem to be supporting Al Quida against other dictatorships. Which is worse? Which have vowed to kill all infidels who don’t believe as we do? The Egyptian leader views America as the enemy. Why do we give him arms and support to carry out his vendetta against us and Israel?
June 17, 2013 at 4:16 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
I thought I made it clear, Agent. I DON’T think it is our business to do so. Why do you try to pick an argument with my every post?
June 17, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Agent says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Hey livefree. Did you know that our wonderful head of DHS, Janet Incompetano thinks that returning soldiers from the war should be put on the Terrorist watch list? She also stations DHS security people to watch Tea Party rallies on the watch for dangerous people. She has bought millions of hollow point bullets as well for security use. It sounds as if this administration is paranoid about the civilian population. Why are everyday Americans viewed as threats to the state?
“…but it is not unusual to see young civilian computer whiz kids with purple hair, a tie-dyed shirt and blue jeans.”
Now, that sounds like my kind of military uniform!
And, I’d like to clarify so I am not misconstrued, I’m supportive and thankful of all men and women in any US military uniform. Thank you to all of you!
Is the Obama Administration hiring them to spy on terrorist or us? Just an honest question. New York Times editorial staff issued a joint statement yesterday claiming “The Obama administration has lost any and all credibility it had left”. So with that in mind, and all of the political attacks on all of our liberties from Obama, I think it is an honest question.
Maybe he is applying the “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” method. :)
China has hacked our military system. But let’s go ahead and worry about Verizon subscribers.
I think you’ve asked a fair question.
In light of all the scandals from IRS to gaining info on phone records of all Americans, this may just be another step of an over reaching government establishing fascism. What is to keep them from monitoring more than just the military of our enemies? The NSA is already monitoring phone calls and emails. This all tells me that our government is out of control and needs to be reigned in.
Not that this article has anything to do with the IRS, but I would like to mention the person who made the initial decision to pull all the tea party applications is a conservative republican. Also, the reason he gave is legitimate. When auditing or reviewing, it is always best to have the same person or group of people assigned related filings. I’m an accountant, and that is the way we do things.
Really JW? how do you know it was a conservative republican, who is he? Where do you get your information from?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/conservative-republican-irs-staffer-takes-credit-tea-party-scrutiny/66065/
Sarah,
In my honest opinion, the Obama administration is not spying on us any more than was the Bush Administration. Remember, the greatest attack on our liberties in our lifetime was the Patriot Act, which was signed by President Bush. So let’s not think Obama is alone in this.
I am not blaming Bush, just indicating that if anyone does not think the government has been monitoring cyber threats and utilizing technology in an attempt to stop terrorists’ plots, escpecially since 9/11, they are naive.
The funniest part of this is that if they were not taking this step, and we suffered a severe loss, Obama would be blamed for not doing enough to protect the country from these threats.
Just remember the Bengazi attack. There is no question that his administration failed to do enough to protect those Americans overseas in addition to how they addressed it afterward. Maybe this is an indication theat Obama and his administration learned something from that and are trying to be more proactive in protecting the USA from another attack.
Sarah, when all the layers of this onion are finally peeled off, we will see how bad this administration really is. They thought they had a mandate to do whatever they wanted and are shocked people are outraged about the pervasive government intrusion into our lives. They have been lying and lying and have now been caught up in their lies. Remember the story on the IRS they put out about it was just a couple of rogue agents in Cincinnati responsible. Now, it has come out that they were directed from DC to do all this and got regular reports on the misdeeds. Every layer of this government is rotten to the core.
I’ve always loved science fiction, but I always believed it was just that: fiction. Guess not. And, as Captain Planet says, thank-you to all the men and women who serve. I value my freedom and know that it is not free; it comes at a cost.
I think we all can agree that we should thank the military service members overseas for keeping us safe.
These computer hackers are not real service members we are talking about. They are not in any harms way, These are nerds that never left their basements and sent viruses to others computers for fun. Now the government wants to learn how to do it. WILL IT EVER BE USED ON A PRIVATE ENTITY IN THE USA? I never thought the IRS was used for political reasons or that the US Attorney General would subpoena records of private reporters because they did not like the news that they were reporting. Or the Government would lie to us about a National Security Issues for purely political reasons, Benghazi bad movie deal. This Government should not be trusted as it is being run today!
Sarah, you are right. We love our service members who protect us against our enemies. They are sworn to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. The question is – Who are our domestic enemies these days?
Sarah, one of the most heartwarming things I have seen is people meeting returning soldiers at airports and clapping for them as they come by and thanking them for their service. GW & Laura Bush have been out there greeting them, but I haven’t seen any of the liberal crowd doing the same thing. Hmm! What is wrong with that picture?
How would you know, Agent? You can spot a liberal from a mile away??? I’ll have you know I thank a soldier for his service EVERY TIME I SEE ONE. And I signed up with the USO to go to the airport and do just that very thing. So stuff your liberal comments like we are not patriotic and don’t love our country and our troops. We bleed every bit as red, white and blue as you do.
Sarah – are you serious?
“I never thought the IRS was used for political reasons… “The IRS has been used for political reasons as far back as Calvin Coolidge (abusers include Coolidge, FDR, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, and Bush.)
and “Or the Government would lie to us about a National Security Issues for purely political reasons, Benghazi bad movie deal.” Ever heard of Oliver North?
You crack me up.
Am I the only one wondering why it was just Verizon phone numbers that were subpoenaed?
Trust me Lady, they have only scratched the surface, just like the other scandals that keep growing daily.
I know the liberals on this site don’t watch the news, but the latest story on the NSA monitoring of virtually everything electronic should be a wake up call for all Americans. This is truly Big Brother on steroids.
Hi Agent,
Why are you pointing fingers at the liberals on this one? Not trying to fight with you, but we all know where the Patriot Act came from. If you are mad that this is happening under the Obama administration, I would like to give you a sage piece of advice, “hate the game, not the player.”
Nebraskan, the Patriot Act came into being after we had over 3,000 murdered on 9/11. It was truly bi-partisan in Congress and everyone wanted to find Terrorists who were trying to harm us. Initially, the idea was to find and monitor phone calls going back and forth to Middle Eastern countries to foil attacks. Now, it has evolved to monitor all Americans calls. Computers are being hacked to glean info. The latest example is Cheryl Atkinson of CBS who had her office and home computer hacked when she was reporting on stories that might be unflattering to this administration. It will be interesting to see where that story goes and who did it.
Sounds like a movie I saw once.
To be honest, I feel like the world had flipped upside down. You are angry about this, and I figured you would be ok with this type of anti-terrorism business based on why it all started and Libby is the one saying it’s no big deal.
Something is not quite right…..
Nebraskan – I am so misunderstood. I am not saying things are “no big deal.” I just don’t get caught up in the hysteria like most folks do on this blog. I say, settle down and let’s look at things logically. If something doesn’t make sense to me, it’s probably because it’s nonsense. I can’t see the government, even though they may have the capability, giving a rat’s ass what I say to my Aunt Bev or my sister-in-law. Unless they want to hear how beautiful my niece & nephew are or want a new recipe for bakeless cheesecake.
Libby–you’re not misunderstood…we all understand just how liberal you are.
I guess if being liberal means I don’t jump on every bandwagon that floats through the internet to regurgitate some bullshit I heard against Republicans. Liberals don’t do that. Rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, fanatical, right-wingers do that. Look in the mirror. You’ll see one there.
Geez, Libby! What happened to your ‘I’m a liberal and I love everyone and everything’ attitude? You sound awfully angry…perhaps some time off would do you good?
Yeah, well, maybe I am angry. Since when did being a liberal start meaning I don’t believe in God, don’t love my country, and am pro every welfare recipient in the country? Since rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, fanatical, right-wingers starting saying it was so. And it’s not. Because I believe in equal rights for all, I’m some kind of pariah trying to take away your rights and your money? I don’t want ANYTHING from you or anyone else. I’ve taken care of myself almost my entire life and have done a pretty good job of it.
When I was younger, I thought of everything in black and white. Now that I’m older and have had a chance to listen to many, many different views, I try to have a little more compassion and see more than one perspective on situations. You know, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
So that makes me a liberal? Then I’m happy to be one.
Just my opinion, but perhaps Verizon being the largest of them all has something to do with it…they have many more millions of subscribers than, say, Sprint has..
Much, much more can be done in terms of cyber security. America has lots to loose so do not discount the efforts of our men and woman in uniform.
I am grateful to the former NSA analyst/patriot that made the limited disclosure which, for the first time, gave us hard documentary evidence of what we previously had to assume– namely, the NSA intercepts all phone calls and collects all data on all networks, and it stores that data permanently. NSA officials lied in Congressional testimony, and the full extent of programs/capabilities has been kept secret from even the Senate intelligence committee. The government has shredded the fourth amendment, and it appears the people must now decide what kind of country they want to live in. A country that does not highly value privacy is one which does not support liberty.
One must seriously question this new cyber announcement. Prior contracts were revealed showing government orders for ‘personality management software’ – a program which would create/maintain a large number of unique and legitimate-looking social media and online forum user accounts and place all of those accounts under the control of a US intelligence analyst. With this tool, the US will increase its (already extensive) domestic propoganda capabilities, as a small number of analysts would be able to affect public perception of a large number of people by strategically using the various online personas to steer early stages of online discussions.
Wow! Conspiracy theories abounding! Spy versus spy. 007. Shoe phones and all kinds of other wizardry. Those are scary, scary imaginings. At least I hope they are imaginary…
But they’re not, Libby. It would be one thing if all the captured data including this post – “Hello NSA!”)were handled by able-minded people. Having known a fair share of folks in government service, I categorize them broadly in two camps: 1. not-the-brightest-bulbs-on-tree or worse, 2. blow-hard know-everythings with chips on their shoulders. Scary for me to think these are the kinds of folks who have this info at their command.
Not that you’ll believe me, but many government employees are intelligent and do their job because they care. Also, I don’t know anyone in my department with a chip on their shoulder. We actually give a d@mn.
The sad thing, State Regulator, is this. Most people in government begin their careers giving a damn but end up getting jaded and stop giving a damn. It’s easier to ‘follow the crowd’ on the road that’s more traveled than it is to stay on their own course no matter what and do the right thing.
Patti,
How many of the 4+ million government workers do you know to make that assertion? Maybe if people stop chastizing them and calling them lazy, unintelligent sheep, they would not become so jaded.
I believe people in nearly all occuptions, public and private, start out with a geeat attitude then become complacent and/or jaded. In my experience, this happens most often to doctors and teachers.
Has anyone ever tried to talk to the IRS? I had to call the wonderful Cincinnati office one time because we did an agency merger and changed our Tax ID #. It was like talking to a brick wall. You can’t believe how much red tape there was to do a simple change like that. Then, they still screwed up our records and our accountant had to deal with them on the agency return. What a nightmare.
“The crowd” in MY DOI is about doing things the right way. Again, don’t assume all government employees do not care. Just like it’s wrong for regulators to assume that all agents are morons because those we have met are morons. Just sayin’.
Judging by the number of Agent morons on this blog, I feel for you Regulator! There are alot of them out there. It makes it hard for the rest of us to hold our heads up high.
I believe you, SR. Sorry about that. I should have been more specific – it’s the people in the IT department that scare me. I picture them like “Simon” from BBC “The Office”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z8pgV74_Hw
Libby, might I recommend a good book for you to read? 1984 by George Orwell. It was required reading for me and I had to do a book report on it. The whole premise is what this country and government is moving towards, complete control of the citizens. In the book, it was a drab existence and people were monitored at work and home and the only information people got was what the Ministry of Truth put out. People were like zombies and totally brainwashed and told constantly how great Big Brother was. Everything a Progressive Liberal government does is about controlling the population. All we have to do is look at the last 4 1/2 years to see one thing after another. How many scandals do you need for proof to see what is going on?
Read it, Agent. Wrote the book report. Got the t-shirt. I am truly amazed at the number of paranoid people in this country. If I am naive, let me stay that way! I am so much happier than you guys. Build your bomb-shelters, stock your supplies, buy your ammunition, and settle in. I’ll be reading a book (maybe 1984 again) on the porch, in the sunshine, sipping a cold one.
Keep on sipping that Kool Aid Libby rocking on your porch. You are about as unconcerned a citizen that we see on this forum. The country is going to he– in a handbasket and you are still singing a happy tune. I believe your post recently that said you just don’t care anymore.
I intend to, Agent. Again, I’m the happy one here.
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”
― George Orwell
:-)
How can we pursue happiness without freedom? This country was founded that way and our forefathers had quite enough of tyranny from the king of England who was oppressing them, taxing them and trying to control their lives. That is one of the biggest reasons for the American Revolution and why our Constitution guarantees the freedoms we have. When you have a government seeking to control every aspect of the citizens lives, freedoms we enjoy disappear and that is not a good thing in the long run.
Libby, you read the book, but did you COMPREHEND the book? And, if you’re out on your porch reading another book in the sunshine, make sure not to drink anymore of the Kool-aid.
Thanks for the tip PC. And I did score extra high on my comprehension skills in school.
Again – this was started under the Patriot Act – Bush initiated. I didn’t like unwarranted searches then and don’t like it now. Crazy though that now that more information is out about what’s being done, people are screaming! It’s been going on for YEARS! Were you asking people to read 1984 in 2001 when the Patriot act was put into force?
And if the Obama Administration stopped the checking and there was another terrorist attack, it would be Obama’s fault. You can’t have it both ways.
Right on, Shari!
Who knew Lamb Chop’s mom was a left winger?! I certainly didn’t.
Can we all just finally agree that it doesn’t matter what President started it? I don’t like Bush OR Obama, and that shouldn’t matter at all. The thing to focus on is whether we want to be controlled by an all-knowing, all-seeing and ever-present entity that is not even elected.
Are you being controlled???
The comments on this article regarding spying, the Patriot Act, and NSA are quite entertaining. Although some like Ron and ExciteBike seem to get it, most others seem to just be determined to stick to that party line and support the Democrat or Republican way. So much so in fact that they are completely reversing their normal stances just to bend to their own political biases regarding the situation. This is a great example of how the political party system as it stands now is a major factor standing in the way of progress, which IMO means limiting the scope of Gov’t but it limits anyone’s idea of progress except for lobbyist and benefactors of crony capitalism.
I for one find it very offensive that all American’s are considered potential terrorist and it pains me to see how a staggering major of society can’t seem to stomach what comes with freedom and liberty and rather sacrifice it for what they call “security.”
I see your point, LiveFree. I just don’t see how we can un-know what we already know. Making it illegal didn’t stop them, as they are the very people making the laws and enforcing them. So what are we to do? Gnash teeth and sit in a corner? How can we un-do it?
I see your point as well Libby. Although, I am not sure if your questions was asking how to un-do the current political party system or the Spying (NSA/Patriot Act). I will give my opinion on both but to be frank in both cases I don’t really know. I don’t pretend to have a great solution just my honest current (meaning subject to change) opinions. It won’t be easy to change anything as you said (or implied) the same people are making the rules, enforcing the rules, and breaking them all at the same time. So it is hard to keep anyone accountable.
But in regards to the spying stuff, I think just removing the Patriot Act and adhering more to the constitution on search and seizure would be a decent, if not minimal, start. I am also of the un-popular opinion that groups like the CIA and the NSA are, if not then parallel to, America terrorist agencies that perform the same terror acts they claim to be trying to put an end to. I mean look how the government reacting when they were accusing China for their cyber hacking/spying on U.S. gov’t and then ironically the story breaks that the U.S. gov’t (NSA) is cyber hacking/spying on U.S. citizens. I think another step in the right direction is for the U.S. to take a more non-interventionist stance and a less empire building one. I believe that would eliminate a lot of the need for the spying (less wars threats and less blow back from invading/occupying). It is more than interesting that the era of Democracy, all in the name of “peace”, has arguable been the bloodiest in all human history.
As for political parties that is a whole other story and a lot harder to change because everyone is set in their ways and very few are open to differing view points. it has more to do with todays society and that is why in my opinion it has to start with the people. The people are ultimately responsible for political ignorance.
Totally in agreement with both comments, LF. I, too, think we should stop trying to take care of the world and spend more time concentrating on our own problems. It is not out business to make the entire globe a democracy. Hell, we don’t do a very good job of it ourselves.
And, I think there would be more “working across the aisle” if there was less vitriol and rage being spewn from both sides. I have to admit, head hanging, I have been guilty of the same behavior of which I speak. I could try to justify it by saying “they started it first” but that would in all actuality be as silly as it sounds.
I think Captain said it best when he said he can disagree without being disagreeable. I need to work on that.
It is also not out business to make dictatorships either although the current policy seems to be doing a good job of it in Egypt, Libya and Syria. We seem to be supporting Al Quida against other dictatorships. Which is worse? Which have vowed to kill all infidels who don’t believe as we do? The Egyptian leader views America as the enemy. Why do we give him arms and support to carry out his vendetta against us and Israel?
I thought I made it clear, Agent. I DON’T think it is our business to do so. Why do you try to pick an argument with my every post?
Hey livefree. Did you know that our wonderful head of DHS, Janet Incompetano thinks that returning soldiers from the war should be put on the Terrorist watch list? She also stations DHS security people to watch Tea Party rallies on the watch for dangerous people. She has bought millions of hollow point bullets as well for security use. It sounds as if this administration is paranoid about the civilian population. Why are everyday Americans viewed as threats to the state?