Flooded Maine Family Blames Error in Federal Maps

December 6, 2006

  • December 6, 2006 at 9:09 am
    Patrick says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Show me someone with an uninsured flood loss and I\’ll show you a lawyer who says it someone else\’s fault. As an agent you can never let a client assume they don\’t need flood insurance. Don\’t count on the homeowner to be responsible. After all…It\’s not their fault!

  • December 6, 2006 at 10:43 am
    John says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Many people are confused concerning flood insurance. If the maps show that your property is not in a \’Special Flood Hazzard Area\’, it qualifies for preferred rate status and insurance is available at very low rates. That is why an agent should be consulted.

  • December 6, 2006 at 1:22 am
    claimschick says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    \”What we need is for someone to assume the accountability for what destroyed our lives.\’\’

    How about YOU being accountable for your position? YOU chose to forego buying flood insurance. That the street is not being on a federal flood map is not a guarantee that a flood won\’t occur. I\’m sick of people with no sense of personal acountability.

  • December 6, 2006 at 1:29 am
    Ray says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Amen to what everyone has said. I live on the side of a hill, don\’t have flood insurance, but if a flood hits me (coming from up the hill) I know that it isn\’t the fault of the Federal Government. After all, flood insurance is available for everyone, not just those next to the river, lake or whatever body of water you want to mention. Hey, if the above ground pool just uphill bursts, the water coming onto my property and perhaps into my home is a flood and would be covered with flood insurance. Without flood insurance, so sorry Charlie…

  • December 6, 2006 at 1:35 am
    Bernie Sanders says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    It is the old line that all people with uncovered claims always utter \”Someone\’s gotta pay\”!!!

    I hate to see the family suffer but she probably bought her homeowner policy over the internet to save $10. Shame on her. I hope they never pay her a dime!!!!

  • December 6, 2006 at 2:00 am
    Gwen says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    What if you were new to an area and didnt know if it flooded there often, why should you be expected to buy flood insurance if it never floods there? The smart thing to do is to do the research, check the flood map in order to see if it is likely it will flood there. I beleive this suite is based on her claim that the FLOOD MAP WAS WRONG. So, in that sense, she was fooled by a faulty map, shouldnt the map maker have E&O, I think its reasonable to believe someone might read that map to make a decision when buying flood insurance

  • December 6, 2006 at 2:21 am
    Bulldogg says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Sorry Gwen, but your agrument does not float…

    To go back to Ray, you should assess your risk not based on a map because a map is a poor judge of the area and can not show you potential hazards. Like Ray, you sould look at potential risks like a swimming pool, back yard creek or pond or even the lay of the landscape around the foundation of the house to see if there could be a chance that you could get flooded.

    Also, you should check out storm drains or street canals to see if there is a potential for backup that could cause a flood.

    I can\’t beleive that this person based their entire self risk assement of their greatest investment that they will ever make on just a piece of paper…

    Not to mention, they bought the house close to a river. Don\’t rivers in ME flood during periods of excessive rain or snow run off? They do down here in PA and I\’m sure the physics are no different.

    They got what they deserved, I hope they get no more!

  • December 6, 2006 at 2:30 am
    Gwenn says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Bulldog, everyone on the street got screwed by this and didnt have coverage. If the flood maps arent acurate then why should anyone use them?

  • December 6, 2006 at 2:51 am
    Bulldogg says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Good question, but if you can see the river from your front door and your house is equal to or below the river or levy system, it\’s a pretty sure bet that you should get flood insurance.

    As we all have learned, you can\’t rely solely on the Government. You need to take some personal responsibility.

    You need to assess the situation for yourself. Do a little research and use some common sense (as I outlined in my reply earlier about swimming pools and other potential hazards).

    You should also consult an Insurance Broker/Agent to better understand what coverage may or may not suit you.

    Don\’t rely on the government because it will fail you every time. Do your own research…

  • December 6, 2006 at 2:52 am
    BB says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwenn,
    I have to disagree with you and several others that say the maps are incorrect. Who said they were incorrect…the reporter? This is the same guy who said they weren\’t in a flood zone. This shows that you and he don\’t understand what a flood hazard map is! EVERYONE lives in a flood zone, it is the level of risk that varies. So, if they weren\’t living in a high-risk area, known as a Special Flood Hazard Area, they were in a low or moderate risk area….but they were still at risk! And as someone earlier pointed out in this comment area, there is an inexpensive policy available from the NFIP, known as the Preferred Risk Policy, with premiums as low as $112 a year for building AND contents. So, it comes back to the comments on personal responsibility. They were at risk and they had options. They sadly must live with the results of not chosing to purchase flood insurance.

    Regarding the maps, Congress recognized that the flood hazard maps were outdated in many areas. At the time they were created for a community, they represented what the flood risks to the best of their ability, technology, modelling, etc. FEMA, however, did not have enough funds to keep all of the maps up-to-date. A few years ago, Congress passed legislation that created the Flood Map Modernization program and FEMA is currently about halfway through the process of updating and digitizing the maps so more people know what their current risk is and be able to make more informed decisions about protecting themselves. So, the out-of-date map issue is being addressed and the new maps will more accurately represent what the current flood risks are.

  • December 6, 2006 at 3:10 am
    Bernie Sanders says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwenn likes to shift personal responsibility onto the government.

    Why did\’nt Mrs. Chin buy the Preferred Risk \”Cheapo\” flood policy??? Even if she was in an \”A\” zone, and it was mapped incorrectly, she still would have had flood insurance.

    Everyone should start voting for the Libertarian party. The party of \”self responsibility\”!!!!

    Remeber the motto \”SOMEONE HAS TO PAY!\”

  • December 6, 2006 at 3:10 am
    Florida Agent says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    #1 yes FEMA has done a GREAT job at re working the flood zone maps – according to one of the new and improved maps, my house now sits 10 miles INTO the Gulf.

    #2 its ALWAYS Dub\’s fault –

  • December 6, 2006 at 3:49 am
    davidb says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Not sure what the Chin\’s argument is. If you look up any house on Intervale Rd Kennebunk, ME, they all show flood zone \”C\”. Yes, we are all in a flood zone and in over 16 years I have never seen a flood map stating not in flood area. Thier aregument is either with thier Insurance Agent, Lender or attorney they hired for the purchase.

  • December 6, 2006 at 4:21 am
    Another Fla. Agent says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    25% of all flood losses occur in Non-Special Flood Hazard Areas: B, C & X Zones. Another $5 says the agent doesn\’t have a signed rejection form indicating the insured was aware taht flood insurance was available. Good to see that there are a number of agents on top of the program.

    Speaking of flood map changes, is everyone up to speed on the \”Grandfathering\” provision in the NFIP?

  • December 6, 2006 at 4:34 am
    BB says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Not only Grandfathering, but Conversion as well. The NFIP made it easier to convert policies on properties that are in an A or V zone and are newly mapped into a B, C, and X zone and qualify for a Preferred Risk Policy. The policyholder keeps the same effective date, any money not spent on the PRP is returned, and the agent gets to keep the commission on both policies! That way your client stays protected and at a much lower cost.

  • December 6, 2006 at 4:54 am
    Jim says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    The Flood map is to give residents a warning that they are indeed living in an area which is prone to flooding. But ANY river, lake, stream, or pond has the potential to flooding. And any semi-educated person would know that. I feel bad for these people for what they have had to go through, but if you live near water, sooner or later, you WILL get wet.

  • December 7, 2006 at 8:50 am
    Underwriter says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Amen to those of you who believe it\’s the responsibility of the property owner – NOT the government – to decide whether or not flood insurance is necessary. The flood maps should be considered a REFERENCE, not the Bible. I live in a C zone, but there is a lake behind my house. To the best of my knowledge, my neighborhood has never flooded; however, I purchased a Preferred Risk Policy because you never know when Mother Nature is going to decide to let loose. My parents lived 1/4 mi from a creek in a \”low risk\” zone; however, after the creek overflowed its banks a couple of times, they went out and purchased a policy as well.

  • December 7, 2006 at 9:13 am
    Bill says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    If you look out your window and see a river, you should probably buy some flood insurance.

  • December 7, 2006 at 10:26 am
    Gwenn says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Actually BB I never used the term flood zone and I am well aware that we are all in a flood zone. Apparently you didnt read my post very carefully, hopefully you read polices more carefully.

    As far as personal respncibility, the rebublican buzz phrase, dont you understand that we are all connected?

    If I shoot you, are you personally responcible for your injuries? After all you were not wearing your bullet proof vest.

    Basically all you guys have said is that it is completely wrong to base buying flood insurance on a flood map. So I ask you, if a flood map is incorrect and communicates to the homeowner that there is a low risk of flood, and that consumer then decides to take that small risk based on the govt produced map, doenst the map maker share some responcibility for the increased risk?

    Thats right, the person who makes the map should have some personal responcibility. See how foolish it is to throw that buzz phrase around? It doesnt mean a dam thing. Its just an excuse to screw people over.

  • December 7, 2006 at 10:34 am
    Jim says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Who says the map is wrong?

    The risk of rolling a 99 on a hundred sided die is the same, even if the last number you rolled was a 99. Same thing with the flood map. Even if a low risk area floods. It does not mean the risk is, or ever was, greater.

  • December 7, 2006 at 11:04 am
    Bernie Sanders says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwenn,

    The simple fact is…Mrs. Chin did not buy flood insurance. She is now trying to blame someone else because she has financial hardship, after making a dumb, dumb decision. It was HER decision.

    Would you give someone a $100 out of your liberal wallet just because they asked you to, without checking all the facts first?

  • December 7, 2006 at 11:46 am
    Underwriter says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Did FEMA acknowledge that they had made an error on the flood maps? More than likely, the flood maps were drawn in the 1970\’s, and 30 years of development had caused the water to forge a new route – into the Chin\’s neighborhood. If that\’s the case, Gwen, THEN who is to blame; the city/county, for allowing people to build homes nearby?

  • December 8, 2006 at 4:34 am
    Ray says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    BB – you hit part of it exactly on the head, well said.

    The other part of the issue here, and every insurance agent/broker knows this, many, many people would not buy flood insurance unless their mortgagee (in compliance with Federal law) required flood insurance as a condition of the mortgagee application, NO MATTER WHAT FLOOD ZONE the house was in.

    Insurance consumer, by and large, are more interested in the bottom line and if they can get away with saving several hundred dollars by not purchasing flood insurance (…it will never happen to me..) they will do so.

  • December 7, 2006 at 5:41 am
    BB says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwenn,
    I think it is you that did not read my email correctly as I never said you used the term flood zone; re-read my post.

    I think several other people have weighed in on the use of old maps. So, I\’ll just say again that the flood maps were accurate, to the best that could be done, when they were created. But they are old. If you use a 1984 AAA road map to go on a car trip, and you get lost because the roads have changed since then, is that AAA\’s fault?

    Also Gwenn, as others have tried to tell you, the flood maps represent a certain condition of flooding; ie. a 24-hour rain event of 12\”. So for example, if that area receives more rain than that and it floods, it doesn\’t mean the maps are inaccurate, it means it exceeded the 1% annual chance rainfall. FEMA reports that 20-25% of their flood claims come from the low to moderate risk areas…which evidently this person lived in. So, the maps never said it would never flood. Now, I don\’t know what their agent told them; but, pointing the finger at the map maker is like pointing the finger at AAA because you got lost using an old map.

    I know from your tone that your opinion won\’t change; and that is fine as we are entitled to our opinion. But at least, I think you should understand more about the flood maps and their use, before you start drawing analogies about shooting people.

  • December 8, 2006 at 11:35 am
    Gwenn says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    This is a quote from the article: Most residents had not purchased flood insurance, because federal maps erroneously failed to designate Intervale Road as being in a flood zone.
    ________________________
    It does not mention that the maps were old, it just mentions that the maps were wrong. Therefore there should be Errors and Omissions insurance to cover the losses of all these people. Its not just one homeowner we are talking about here. That said, insurance journal should be ashamed for mentioning that the RD was \”not in a flood zone,\” as usual their poor reporting and omission of certain facts make these things hard to discuss.

    Nonetheless, I never had any concern with that, because I know that we are all in some flood zone, once again my point is that if I told you that there was a chance you would be flooded once in 250 years, I think that might influence your decision to buy the coverage. If an agent told you that you could only be flooded once every 200 years he would be held accountable, so why not the govt if they essentially tell you the same thing?

    And why the racism in this discussion against these poor people just because they are Asian?

    And why would someone use Bernie Sanders name to say conservitive republican things on the message board? Where is the humor there? Its not even creative, but it is homophobic.

  • December 8, 2006 at 3:03 am
    BB says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwenn,
    It is evident that your issues are beyond that of this article and this bulletin board and therefore, no reply is needed to your last posting except that the Insurance Journal did not write this article; it was the Associated Press. Thank you to all of you that had constructive comments, pro or con. I am taking myself off of this one.

  • December 9, 2006 at 10:02 am
    Gwenn says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Kewl, I win.

  • December 11, 2006 at 10:05 am
    Dan says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    OK, a little commercial here. I work for RiskMeter.com. We have a new Flood Elevation report aimed at just this problem. If a property doesn\’t fall within the 100 year flood plain, it will tell you the distance to the closest 100 year flood zone, and estimates the height above the BFE. This is an extremely useful tool to explain to people that they are at risk even though they are outside a SFHA.

  • December 15, 2006 at 11:39 am
    U/W says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Gwen….I think you hit the nail on the head just missed the appropriate conclusion….you stated \”and that consumer then decides to take that small risk\” and that is where the consumer is at fault – they could have bought the flood insurance, they took the small risk and a flood occurred. Nobody\’s fault but their own.

  • February 15, 2007 at 3:50 am
    kenney says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Very interesting conversation. I stumbled on your site and discussion of the Chin\’s by accident while I was researching York County statistics. I am familiar with this case, and I am not an insurance industry professional, nor do I play one on tv. The Chin\’s property is in an area that routinely floods, but not to the degree that they did experience. This historical flooding is common knowledge, and based on the many year\’s that the Chin\’s lived there they would have known this. My wife and I own a business a mile down river from them, and we are not in a flood zone, but own flood insureance. there are many pictures from the late 19 century to early 20th century of two mills falling into the river from floods. Note the Mousam River has Two Dams on the river upstream from the Chins and one dam downstream from the Chins (about 3/4 mile). One of the two dams upstream (about 20 miles away) was on the verge of breaching, the NHEMA and MEMA had all of the valves open to let the maximum amount of water flow. The dam below stream was holding water back. This was all compounded by the fact that we had three solid weeks of rain, fact without one day of interuption. The twenty four hours of the flood accounted for 12 inches of rain,on top of 7-9 inches of rain in the 48 hours leading up to the flood.

  • February 15, 2007 at 4:20 am
    Underwriter says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 0
    Thumb down 0

    Kenney, if more consumers were like you, our courts would not be flooded (excuse the pun) with so many lawsuits. Many people do not understand what their insurance does and does not cover, and are unwilling to even attempt to familiarize themselves with their policies. But you\’d have to be living under a rock to not know that you have to buy flood coverage from FEMA. For years, I\’ve seen reports on the evening news about people in various parts of the country whose homes were flooded and they DID NOT HAVE FLOOD INSURANCE. If I were unfamiliar with insurance, I would call my agent first thing the next morning and the first thing I would do is call my agent and ask him/her about flood coverage.



Add a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*