Who are these judges? Did they pass the bar last week or were THEY intoxicated?
Please someone tell me what intelligent reason does this moron, whom got exactly what he deserved, even have a leg to stand on (yes, that pun WAS intended)in court?
There was no negligence here by the restaurants/bars…lil Bobby got his buddies to sneak him drinks disguising them only as glasses of soda. Why else do you think he chose a clear almost odorless liquor with his soda??
No way a court should allow a lawsuit against a bar/restaurant when the patron is deliberately breaking the law. Here\’s a thought…sue the kids who brought the drinks…let them pay the hospital bills and help with the nursing of this idiot since they are the ones who helped cause it.
Do that and you won\’t see too many \”buddies\” helping their friends get drunk…
Normally I take a pretty conservative position on lawsuits and personal responsibility, but I have a very low tolerance when it comes to establishments serving alcohol to minors.
You\’re suggesting there was a lack of supervision?
I guess that\’s plausible, but as Sam outlined, it looks like this young Mr Nunez had a pretty clever system in place to circumvent the normal controls that prevent minors from being served. Heck, he apparently had a fake ID in hand as well. It\’s one thing if a business has a pattern of serving minors, but there\’s nothing to indicate that here. This is deep pockets syndrome at it\’s worst. In the end we all end up paying for the deviance and lawlessness of people like Mr. Nunez.
\”He wanted everything that we all want,\’\’ Nunez\’s attorney John Dodge said, \”a family and everything else.\’\’
Looks like he also wants someone to take on the financial consequence of his poor judgment.
While I generally agree this is BS, if this guy went into two establishments where they knew him (and presumably that he was underage), and they still served him, they\’re going to get in trouble. Employees are generally thought to act as the owner\’s agent, making him responsible for training and supervising them. So, apparently these owners weren\’t doing such a hot job of either hiring, training or supervising their employees, which puts them on the hook.
He had a fake ID and I\’m guessing with the name of Nunez has been shaving since he was 9. That, on top of his friends slipping him liquor in his soda is impossible to supervise. Had he been turned away he\’d probably now be suing for discrimination. Why would anyone do business in this country anymore? There is only heartache at the end of the road. I hope al Quaida can get to these judges, they would gladly find in favor for them as well.
Unfortunately too many people today do not take responsibility for their own actions. It\’s always \”somebody else\’s fault\” or the old \”they owe me\” syndrome because I ignored the known consequences of driving drunk.
How is there none left in this country? Are we not educated on what is right and wrong? Can we no longer make decisions for ourselves? Whether he was served or not, he chose to consume the alcohol. Would he have sued his parents had he taken the alcohol from their cabinet? Where does the madness end? Regan is right – why would anyone want to own a business in this country as they will surely be the defendant in a civil proceeding which may ultimately cost them their livelihood.
That\’s the word I was looking for – personal accountability. Too bad this wasn\’t the old \”Western Days\”. If a man was too drunk, they would simple toss him out the swinging doors and onto the dirt. Mr. Nobel does not \”win\” in either case as even with the monies he may be awarded, he will have to live with the consequences of his actions that he \”chose\” to drink.
First of all you all make a bold assumption. \”Where they knew him\” does not equal \”they all knew his age\” The kid had a fake ID–I worked as a bartender all thru college and grad school. A chain like Carrabas does not inform every employee of the age of every other employee. I wouldn\’t even be surprised if they would get sued for breaching confidentiality of the poor employee if they did! Turnover is high in this industry as well . I agree… sue the friends, sue they guy who sold you your fake ID, hell even sue yourself if you want but all that might actually be a responsible act so we cant very well do that! Peabody-figures…bunch of Massholes!
I\’ve adjudicated a few dram shop cases in our office, although others have handled hundreds across the country. These cases are tough to defend because you often have juries that feel sorry for the injured person or deceased, who is normally an innocent third party.
In this case, the drunk is also the injured person.
There is going to come a time where people can\’t afford to own a bar/restaurant, due to injustices like this.
I feel bad for the kid. BUT, he brought it all onto himself. Let his parents health insurance or the government take care of his bills.
I have to concur with the consensus on this one. I also have worked in the restaurant industry, and it is impossible to monitor everything that goes on in a restaurant. I worked at an Olive Garden where a full staff of servers was 26 (that doesn\’t count cooks, busers, hosts, bar tenders, cooks, dish and mgmt. At any given time you could have 50+ employees.
Also, these jobs come pretty easy to the employees. You can bounce from rest. to rest. for years. The loyalty of most restaurant employees I\’ve met is definitely to their fellow food warriers and not the restaurant. Hopefully, the restaurant doesn\’t have to pay. Carrabas is owned by the same people as Outback, Flemings and a few others, so I\’m sure they have in house counsel that has been in this situation before. It is unfortnate, though, they have to go through it at all.
Perhaps the establishments that are being named in the suit would like to sue the parents for bringing their child up to be deceitful & lie about his age… now there\’s an idea I can see working!
I think they need to counter sue the parents & the company that produced the fake ID. Heck, go ahead & sue the kid for lying & being deceitful too, maybe they willmake back more than they woudl have had to pay!
Okay gang…I guess I started this rant..I have a few more \”sense\” to add…
Totally disagree with the lawsuit on the fake ID company. This guy makes a living selling a novelty to teenagers, he does not however tell them how or where to use them. I am not saying I admire the guy…but he isn\’t at fault for the kids actually using the ID\’s.
I also disagree with a statement I saw suggesting that the government pay his bills. The government would be using our money to pay for this moron\’s blatant stupidity for the rest of his life…ummm…no sir!!!
Simply stated: Let the parents take care of the son. They didn\’t teach enough right and wrong or in Texas (where I live) they didn\’t whoop him enough. As for Nunez…well given that he is now a paraplegic for the rest of his life…he is already serving a life sentence…not much more you can do to him.
#1. He will win the suit with a jury that awards the pitiful from the plentiful.
#2. He will be delinquent on paying his medical bills.
#3. He will get SS Disability until he dies & will qualify for other Government programs designed to help those less fortunate & get enough money to live comfortably, but not extravagantly.
#4. His Parents will hire someone in their family to be a care giver & charge the State for the services.
Bottom line is that through it all… We pay the bills.
That is all that I can predict at this time, based on what I have read….
Slow down, we sue the restaurant for the alcohol but not the guy who made the fake ID becasue, \”he does not however tell them how or where to use them\”. So the restaurant should not be liable on the basis of the same arguement, they served the acohol but its not their duty to tell you what to do with it… Sorry, doesn\’t hold water. It is illegal to sell fake IDs, as a novalty or whatever. He should be named in the suit as well.
I agree with you on the government paying the bills. Unfortuantly, he will go before a disability judge who will do \”the compasionate thing\”… We will get stuck with the bill in the end.
I wasn\’t aware that the manufacture of fake ID\’s was illegal. After some quick research, you are correct, it is not only illegal to possess a fake ID, but also illegal to make them. My appologies…that guy should also be named in the suit.
Of course, that is still placing blame on someone else than the actual guilty party…sure some or all played a role…but the only one that made the whole problem occur was the actions of the one that used the fake ID, drank underage, and then drove drunk. The others didn\’t make him do anything out of his own free will. For instance, a gun maker can\’t be liable if a customer takes the gun and shoots someone with it. (this was just an example..not trying to start a gun control discussion)
I grew up knowning that you don\’t drink and drive. So when I went to a party with friends when I was 15 and they all drank you know what I did? I went and took the keys from the driver and I drove 5 drunk people home with a learner\’s permit. This kid had no brains. Even small children hear the slogan don\’t drink and drive it\’s against the law.
While the plaintiff was underage to drink he was not a kid. He was 18– old enough to sign contracts, fight in Iraq,get married, have kids and go to jail for many years if they screw up.He was very much an adult and for that reason he should be held to the same standard as any adult.
And, as an aside, I find the remark regarding all he wanted was a family and everything else to patronizing and insulting as it implies all he can do now is sit on the corner with a cup begging. Though not in a wheelchair myself, I have several friends and family in chairs from spinal injuries and other causes and they have led full lives,i.e, held jobs, had families even if the children are adopted, and had good and bad days just like everyone else. I am sure they wish things were different but the plaintiff can have a good life if he wants to.
I am astonished at the almost total lack of compassion for the young man who for all intents and purposes lost his life that night. I hope like hell none of you cold hearted people or your children ever wind up in the same boat because of some mistake made as a youth. And we have all made them, and you are a liar if you deny this. Some people are just luckier then others.
I agree that each person should be responsible for their actions, but I also think you should recognize there is more then one party involved here. Nobody made the kid drink and drive, in fact it is illegal to do so. But, nobody made the restraunt serve him, and the last time I checked, serving minors is also illegal. Both parties broke the law, and should be held accountable for their actions.
The law is clear – business owners are responsible for the actions of their employees. It doesn\’t matter if individual employees do not follow the established policies of their employer. It\’s no different then giving an employee a company car & telling them not to speed while driving it. The employer is responsible for then just the same if they do.
One final question, how many of you would agree to accept any amount of money for never being able to walk again or have any type of nornal life?
Compassion – Maybe you should stop and think for a minute here. Would you have the same compassion if Nunuz hit another driver while driving drunk and killed/injured them. What if he killed a young child? Bottom line – DO NOT DRIVE & DRIVE. Yes he made a mistake but I thank God that he didn\’t take an innocent life.
I am sure we can all agree, we wouldn\’t want it to happen to any of us or our children. And yes, all of us make mistakes. Not speaking for anyone else, my take on it is this…as tragic of a thing it is for this young man to be paralyzed, it is of his own accord and no matter what, I wouldn\’t wish it on him or anyone else. He could have killed and paralyed someone else..but he didn\’t, that\’s how he got lucky…he won\’t have to feel that guilt his whole life. But he did make a mistake that ended up with horrible consequences that very few of us would even be able to comprehend. But here\’s the thing…he did it to himself. Sure the law books or courts may say this restaurant or that fake ID maker are as much or more responsible…but this isn\’t a court room and I am not an attorney for the plaintiff…
What I am upset about, is the young man has decided to sue to get money from someone else for something he knew damn well was completely his fault! This is not a question of compassion, it a question of morality…and either this kid\’s parents didn\’t teach him morals or they are in on this lawsuit too and are just as much to blame!
I would have felt bad for the kid if he would have licked his wounds and acted like a man and took responsibility for his own actions…but no, he took the low road. Now ALOT of our money, the government\’s and insurance companies money(which is our premium dollars) are going to be given in the millions to someone who doesn\’t deserve it. I would just as soon as they give it to the poor or maybe foster children…something like that…but not to a greedy sloth like this.
I have compassion for people who are differently abled, but compassion doesn\’t equal an open wallet.
You are correct, Fairness, the restaurant and bar are negligent for serving alcohol to a minor and they should be cited and fined just like any other establishment caught doing the same thing. However, neither the restaurant nor the nightclub owe ONE DIME MORE than the standard fine regardless of the severity of Nunez\’s injuries.
Nunez had absolute *INTENT* to break the law that night, as evidenced by the fact that HE made a deliberate decision to order the beverages AND he had a Fake ID.
In my opinion, that means HIS actions are criminal to a larger degree than the establishments which served him the liquor. Perhaps the EMPLOYEES of the establishments provided him alcohol knowing he was under-age, but one could easily assume that the business owners did NOT have intent to break the law that night.
This is the good old USA, you can pretty much sue anyone for any reason, provided there\’s some sort of statute on the books that even minimally addresses whatever you can dream up.
So Nunez can sue. Good for him. I do NOT think he should win any amount of money, though. His injuries are a direct result of HIS actions. Period.
What if he had raided mom and dad\’s \”special fridge in the garage\” and done the exact same thing? Is he going to sue mom and dad? I doubt it. I agree with everyone else, this is deep-pocket syndrome to the Nth degree.
-Mary, I would feel the same way for the young man even if he had killed an third party. That scenario would have simply been twice as sad. He lost him life anyway, nothing the state (or you and I) could do to him in the way of prosection could be any worse. Of course, I would feel very bad for the third party as well.
Question, how would you feel about the innocent third party\’s ability to sue the restraunt that broke the law and served the young man alcohol? Should the business owner in this situation be held accountable for their employess knowingly serving alcohol to a minor, even though the owners themselvs mave have not known about it? If so, how is this different from the young man being able to sue a negligent party? (The question of how much if anything he should be entitled to is another question entirely, and thats up to a jury to decide – not you!)
Remember, the people on the jury as fellow citizens of the U.S., just as you and I are. The law must be followed even if you disagree with it. If you don\’t like the laws as written, either work to change them or leave! Its a good think you don\’t run the country as you would be a perfect definition of a dictator! In case you forgot, this is still a country ruled \”By the People, For the People!\”
Fairness – You said it was a good thing I don\’t run the country as I would be a dictator. How you misconstrued what I had written is beyond me. Basic points of what the majority people here are stating is that one must have personal accountability for their actions. If you would stop grandstanding and use your head, you might not sound like such a dolt.
Obviously written by someone not in the industry. \”compassion\” has no place in insurance nor the Courts. Compassion is why we are in the \”judicial hell\” that we are currently facing. This kid is a total idiot, he took no consideration into anyone or anything else but himself and you think he deserves compassion. this dolt should be happy he is alive. he is a criminal as worst and a liar at best. Too bad he was not arrested for DUI and sent to prison, wheelchair or not. What\’s really sickening is that this jackhole is making money off of his own stupidity, deceit and lies.
I only have compassion for the young man\’s family as they have to help him deal with his physical limitations. This young man was totally in the wrong and should not be allowed to receive anything from his employer or the other establishment that served him unless it can be proven that he was drunk beyond a reasonable double when they served him the alcohol. The young man is over age 18 so, he isn\’t a minor – he can make decisions and bind contracts. The fact that the young man had a fake ID should completely remove both establishments that served him from being fined for serving alcohol to a minor and should remove any point that he was under age during the trial. The fake ID established that the restaurants were serving alcohol to a person of legal age -period. Just because the employees of the establishments knew him does not mean that they knew his was under age 21. The owner should have known he was underage but, the owner may not have been there when the kid was being served.
Compassion is something we all need more of, but compassion is not really the issue here.
If the facts are that an underage kid purchases & uses a fake ID (& it works) to obtain alcoholic beverages, ingests the alcohol & becomes to drunk to drive, he should call a cab, just like us old drunks do!
The fact that he intentionally drove while intoxicated is something that most have done in their lifetime, but this time he really messed up & in the process has messed up the rest of his life & those that are close to him in that they too have to live with his injuries & limitations now & someone will have to take up the job of helping him.
He is entitled to the Government funding because we are a Country full of compassionate people that took into consideration that some people will need monetary help & services if they become disabled. No Problem (kinda… but that\’s my opinion)
He should not be entitled to any monetary gain, from any source, for the blatant disregard of the law & now he is suffering the consequences of his actions.
Thank God that he didn\’t kill or injure anyone else like this!
Massachusetts the land of Ted Kennedy and someone should pay for my injuries. It\’s not my responsibility that I was underage and had a fake ID and the employees don\’t see the consequences of their actions. No the corporations must pay for an individuals stupidity and of course insurance companies have the deep pockets so it\’s all alright, no harm done. Don\’t take responsibility for your actions and just pass the buck, irrespective of the consequences. They should fire every one at Carraba\’s who served him, fire him for knowingly purchasing liquor and accepting it from employees, close the restaurant and file for bankruptcy. Then hold a telethon for the poor idiot. Now that\’s compassion.
I agree, Mary, that somewhere after telling us to change the laws, Fairness\’s post turned into something of a rant.
However, he (she?) posed a very good question that you did not answer. Had Nunez harmed/killed some unfortunate innocent third party, how would you feel about that person\’s ability to go after the restaurants?
Another question for all. How young would Nunez, fake ID and all, have had to have been before you feel he would be warranted in making a claim against the restaurants?
First of all, my apologys to Mary – I was on a rant and calling her a dictator was just flat out rude an uncalled for. I am sorry.
Secondly, I have been in this industry for 20 yrs and have had my fill of death and destruction day in and day out. It\’s easy to become cynical when faced with daily tradgedy and fraud, and I have to occasionally remind myself to step back and remember the service I (and all agents, adjusters, underwriters ect) provide to the public thru insurance. I have to remember that the vast majority of people are honest and quite entitled to the benefits they or their employers have paid for by purchasing insurance.
Finally, if you would read the posts I have entered, you will note that nowhere did I say the kid should be entitled to any benefits. However, under the law he is entitled to his day in court to determine if some other party (restraunt) is legally liable and contributed to the whole tragic incident. It\’s not our place to deny him or anyone else that right. What a court/jury decides must be based on the law, not on whether or not we feel the kid deserved what he got or that he is not entitled to any money. The general public may not always agree with the results (see OJ verdict), but it is what it is.
If as a society we don\’t like the law, we need to work to change it. Ranting and raving about the unfairness of life does no one any good. Talk to your legislator and make your voice heard. In the meantime, we have to live with the law as written. Some people get much more then they honestly deserve, and some get a lot less then they deserve. But, I will take the good with the bad, as our system remains the best in the world.
I am off my soapbox now. And yes, I do feel sorry for the kid. He made a mistake, a tragic one, but I am willing to bet he did not \”intend\” to end up a quad, no more then anyone who smokes intends to end up with cancer or someone who eats to much intends to end up with heart disease,diabetes ect. (the list can go on and on) ***** and moan all you want, but I will not be the one who says \”he got what he deserved\”. I still have a heart after all these years.
I am willing to concede the fact that my own opinions are not the law, nor should they be construde as such. I am also willing to concede that even THIS foolish unlucky soul deserves his day in court…
I am not from the Northeast, I am from Texas, so my opinions on certain things may differ greatly from other citizens of these great United States. Having said that, let the citizens who are the voting, tax paying public send a message that these types of frivalous, unwarranted lawsuits will not be tolerated. Let the lawsuit happy John Q. Public know that just because they screw up on their own accord, it doesn\’t mean that society or any other entity owes them a dime for their mistakes. If they want to get rich by being lucky…play the lottery.
We wouldn\’t be having these types of discussions if that message were sent on a regular basis.
If one had to choose between an insurance company paying the bills, or tendering their policy limits versus the government, I choose the government.
The parents aren\’t responsible as their child is no longer a child, but an adult. Hence, we all share in the bills.
To force insurance monies to foot the bill for the reckless behavior of the plaintiff is ridiculous….
Unfortunately, juries often don\’t listen to the facts, they get swayed by smooth talking plaintiff attorneys and their whining and crying clients.
Who are these judges? Did they pass the bar last week or were THEY intoxicated?
Please someone tell me what intelligent reason does this moron, whom got exactly what he deserved, even have a leg to stand on (yes, that pun WAS intended)in court?
There was no negligence here by the restaurants/bars…lil Bobby got his buddies to sneak him drinks disguising them only as glasses of soda. Why else do you think he chose a clear almost odorless liquor with his soda??
No way a court should allow a lawsuit against a bar/restaurant when the patron is deliberately breaking the law. Here\’s a thought…sue the kids who brought the drinks…let them pay the hospital bills and help with the nursing of this idiot since they are the ones who helped cause it.
Do that and you won\’t see too many \”buddies\” helping their friends get drunk…
**stepping down off my soapbox**
Normally I take a pretty conservative position on lawsuits and personal responsibility, but I have a very low tolerance when it comes to establishments serving alcohol to minors.
One word, Sam… SUPERVISION.
You\’re suggesting there was a lack of supervision?
I guess that\’s plausible, but as Sam outlined, it looks like this young Mr Nunez had a pretty clever system in place to circumvent the normal controls that prevent minors from being served. Heck, he apparently had a fake ID in hand as well. It\’s one thing if a business has a pattern of serving minors, but there\’s nothing to indicate that here. This is deep pockets syndrome at it\’s worst. In the end we all end up paying for the deviance and lawlessness of people like Mr. Nunez.
I love the quote they chose:
\”He wanted everything that we all want,\’\’ Nunez\’s attorney John Dodge said, \”a family and everything else.\’\’
Looks like he also wants someone to take on the financial consequence of his poor judgment.
While I generally agree this is BS, if this guy went into two establishments where they knew him (and presumably that he was underage), and they still served him, they\’re going to get in trouble. Employees are generally thought to act as the owner\’s agent, making him responsible for training and supervising them. So, apparently these owners weren\’t doing such a hot job of either hiring, training or supervising their employees, which puts them on the hook.
Dot,
He had a fake ID and I\’m guessing with the name of Nunez has been shaving since he was 9. That, on top of his friends slipping him liquor in his soda is impossible to supervise. Had he been turned away he\’d probably now be suing for discrimination. Why would anyone do business in this country anymore? There is only heartache at the end of the road. I hope al Quaida can get to these judges, they would gladly find in favor for them as well.
Unfortunately too many people today do not take responsibility for their own actions. It\’s always \”somebody else\’s fault\” or the old \”they owe me\” syndrome because I ignored the known consequences of driving drunk.
How is there none left in this country? Are we not educated on what is right and wrong? Can we no longer make decisions for ourselves? Whether he was served or not, he chose to consume the alcohol. Would he have sued his parents had he taken the alcohol from their cabinet? Where does the madness end? Regan is right – why would anyone want to own a business in this country as they will surely be the defendant in a civil proceeding which may ultimately cost them their livelihood.
That\’s the word I was looking for – personal accountability. Too bad this wasn\’t the old \”Western Days\”. If a man was too drunk, they would simple toss him out the swinging doors and onto the dirt. Mr. Nobel does not \”win\” in either case as even with the monies he may be awarded, he will have to live with the consequences of his actions that he \”chose\” to drink.
First of all you all make a bold assumption. \”Where they knew him\” does not equal \”they all knew his age\” The kid had a fake ID–I worked as a bartender all thru college and grad school. A chain like Carrabas does not inform every employee of the age of every other employee. I wouldn\’t even be surprised if they would get sued for breaching confidentiality of the poor employee if they did! Turnover is high in this industry as well . I agree… sue the friends, sue they guy who sold you your fake ID, hell even sue yourself if you want but all that might actually be a responsible act so we cant very well do that! Peabody-figures…bunch of Massholes!
I\’ve adjudicated a few dram shop cases in our office, although others have handled hundreds across the country. These cases are tough to defend because you often have juries that feel sorry for the injured person or deceased, who is normally an innocent third party.
In this case, the drunk is also the injured person.
There is going to come a time where people can\’t afford to own a bar/restaurant, due to injustices like this.
I feel bad for the kid. BUT, he brought it all onto himself. Let his parents health insurance or the government take care of his bills.
I have to concur with the consensus on this one. I also have worked in the restaurant industry, and it is impossible to monitor everything that goes on in a restaurant. I worked at an Olive Garden where a full staff of servers was 26 (that doesn\’t count cooks, busers, hosts, bar tenders, cooks, dish and mgmt. At any given time you could have 50+ employees.
Also, these jobs come pretty easy to the employees. You can bounce from rest. to rest. for years. The loyalty of most restaurant employees I\’ve met is definitely to their fellow food warriers and not the restaurant. Hopefully, the restaurant doesn\’t have to pay. Carrabas is owned by the same people as Outback, Flemings and a few others, so I\’m sure they have in house counsel that has been in this situation before. It is unfortnate, though, they have to go through it at all.
Perhaps the establishments that are being named in the suit would like to sue the parents for bringing their child up to be deceitful & lie about his age… now there\’s an idea I can see working!
I think they need to counter sue the parents & the company that produced the fake ID. Heck, go ahead & sue the kid for lying & being deceitful too, maybe they willmake back more than they woudl have had to pay!
You go Duhhh – maybe the establishment can sue the kid for intentional fraud due to the fact that he ordered drinks knowing he had the fake i.d.
Yeah For Real!
Now that\’s what I\’m talking about – it comes back down to Personal Accountability!
Thanks Ben for throwing that out into the mix – I think it\’s good to be accountable for what you do!
Have a great day!
Okay gang…I guess I started this rant..I have a few more \”sense\” to add…
Totally disagree with the lawsuit on the fake ID company. This guy makes a living selling a novelty to teenagers, he does not however tell them how or where to use them. I am not saying I admire the guy…but he isn\’t at fault for the kids actually using the ID\’s.
I also disagree with a statement I saw suggesting that the government pay his bills. The government would be using our money to pay for this moron\’s blatant stupidity for the rest of his life…ummm…no sir!!!
Simply stated: Let the parents take care of the son. They didn\’t teach enough right and wrong or in Texas (where I live) they didn\’t whoop him enough. As for Nunez…well given that he is now a paraplegic for the rest of his life…he is already serving a life sentence…not much more you can do to him.
#1. He will win the suit with a jury that awards the pitiful from the plentiful.
#2. He will be delinquent on paying his medical bills.
#3. He will get SS Disability until he dies & will qualify for other Government programs designed to help those less fortunate & get enough money to live comfortably, but not extravagantly.
#4. His Parents will hire someone in their family to be a care giver & charge the State for the services.
Bottom line is that through it all… We pay the bills.
That is all that I can predict at this time, based on what I have read….
Slow down, we sue the restaurant for the alcohol but not the guy who made the fake ID becasue, \”he does not however tell them how or where to use them\”. So the restaurant should not be liable on the basis of the same arguement, they served the acohol but its not their duty to tell you what to do with it… Sorry, doesn\’t hold water. It is illegal to sell fake IDs, as a novalty or whatever. He should be named in the suit as well.
I agree with you on the government paying the bills. Unfortuantly, he will go before a disability judge who will do \”the compasionate thing\”… We will get stuck with the bill in the end.
I wasn\’t aware that the manufacture of fake ID\’s was illegal. After some quick research, you are correct, it is not only illegal to possess a fake ID, but also illegal to make them. My appologies…that guy should also be named in the suit.
Of course, that is still placing blame on someone else than the actual guilty party…sure some or all played a role…but the only one that made the whole problem occur was the actions of the one that used the fake ID, drank underage, and then drove drunk. The others didn\’t make him do anything out of his own free will. For instance, a gun maker can\’t be liable if a customer takes the gun and shoots someone with it. (this was just an example..not trying to start a gun control discussion)
I grew up knowning that you don\’t drink and drive. So when I went to a party with friends when I was 15 and they all drank you know what I did? I went and took the keys from the driver and I drove 5 drunk people home with a learner\’s permit. This kid had no brains. Even small children hear the slogan don\’t drink and drive it\’s against the law.
While the plaintiff was underage to drink he was not a kid. He was 18– old enough to sign contracts, fight in Iraq,get married, have kids and go to jail for many years if they screw up.He was very much an adult and for that reason he should be held to the same standard as any adult.
And, as an aside, I find the remark regarding all he wanted was a family and everything else to patronizing and insulting as it implies all he can do now is sit on the corner with a cup begging. Though not in a wheelchair myself, I have several friends and family in chairs from spinal injuries and other causes and they have led full lives,i.e, held jobs, had families even if the children are adopted, and had good and bad days just like everyone else. I am sure they wish things were different but the plaintiff can have a good life if he wants to.
I am astonished at the almost total lack of compassion for the young man who for all intents and purposes lost his life that night. I hope like hell none of you cold hearted people or your children ever wind up in the same boat because of some mistake made as a youth. And we have all made them, and you are a liar if you deny this. Some people are just luckier then others.
I agree that each person should be responsible for their actions, but I also think you should recognize there is more then one party involved here. Nobody made the kid drink and drive, in fact it is illegal to do so. But, nobody made the restraunt serve him, and the last time I checked, serving minors is also illegal. Both parties broke the law, and should be held accountable for their actions.
The law is clear – business owners are responsible for the actions of their employees. It doesn\’t matter if individual employees do not follow the established policies of their employer. It\’s no different then giving an employee a company car & telling them not to speed while driving it. The employer is responsible for then just the same if they do.
One final question, how many of you would agree to accept any amount of money for never being able to walk again or have any type of nornal life?
Compassion – Maybe you should stop and think for a minute here. Would you have the same compassion if Nunuz hit another driver while driving drunk and killed/injured them. What if he killed a young child? Bottom line – DO NOT DRIVE & DRIVE. Yes he made a mistake but I thank God that he didn\’t take an innocent life.
I am sure we can all agree, we wouldn\’t want it to happen to any of us or our children. And yes, all of us make mistakes. Not speaking for anyone else, my take on it is this…as tragic of a thing it is for this young man to be paralyzed, it is of his own accord and no matter what, I wouldn\’t wish it on him or anyone else. He could have killed and paralyed someone else..but he didn\’t, that\’s how he got lucky…he won\’t have to feel that guilt his whole life. But he did make a mistake that ended up with horrible consequences that very few of us would even be able to comprehend. But here\’s the thing…he did it to himself. Sure the law books or courts may say this restaurant or that fake ID maker are as much or more responsible…but this isn\’t a court room and I am not an attorney for the plaintiff…
What I am upset about, is the young man has decided to sue to get money from someone else for something he knew damn well was completely his fault! This is not a question of compassion, it a question of morality…and either this kid\’s parents didn\’t teach him morals or they are in on this lawsuit too and are just as much to blame!
I would have felt bad for the kid if he would have licked his wounds and acted like a man and took responsibility for his own actions…but no, he took the low road. Now ALOT of our money, the government\’s and insurance companies money(which is our premium dollars) are going to be given in the millions to someone who doesn\’t deserve it. I would just as soon as they give it to the poor or maybe foster children…something like that…but not to a greedy sloth like this.
I have compassion for people who are differently abled, but compassion doesn\’t equal an open wallet.
You are correct, Fairness, the restaurant and bar are negligent for serving alcohol to a minor and they should be cited and fined just like any other establishment caught doing the same thing. However, neither the restaurant nor the nightclub owe ONE DIME MORE than the standard fine regardless of the severity of Nunez\’s injuries.
Nunez had absolute *INTENT* to break the law that night, as evidenced by the fact that HE made a deliberate decision to order the beverages AND he had a Fake ID.
In my opinion, that means HIS actions are criminal to a larger degree than the establishments which served him the liquor. Perhaps the EMPLOYEES of the establishments provided him alcohol knowing he was under-age, but one could easily assume that the business owners did NOT have intent to break the law that night.
This is the good old USA, you can pretty much sue anyone for any reason, provided there\’s some sort of statute on the books that even minimally addresses whatever you can dream up.
So Nunez can sue. Good for him. I do NOT think he should win any amount of money, though. His injuries are a direct result of HIS actions. Period.
What if he had raided mom and dad\’s \”special fridge in the garage\” and done the exact same thing? Is he going to sue mom and dad? I doubt it. I agree with everyone else, this is deep-pocket syndrome to the Nth degree.
-Mary, I would feel the same way for the young man even if he had killed an third party. That scenario would have simply been twice as sad. He lost him life anyway, nothing the state (or you and I) could do to him in the way of prosection could be any worse. Of course, I would feel very bad for the third party as well.
Question, how would you feel about the innocent third party\’s ability to sue the restraunt that broke the law and served the young man alcohol? Should the business owner in this situation be held accountable for their employess knowingly serving alcohol to a minor, even though the owners themselvs mave have not known about it? If so, how is this different from the young man being able to sue a negligent party? (The question of how much if anything he should be entitled to is another question entirely, and thats up to a jury to decide – not you!)
Remember, the people on the jury as fellow citizens of the U.S., just as you and I are. The law must be followed even if you disagree with it. If you don\’t like the laws as written, either work to change them or leave! Its a good think you don\’t run the country as you would be a perfect definition of a dictator! In case you forgot, this is still a country ruled \”By the People, For the People!\”
When are people going to start being responsible for their own actions?!
Its time for people to stop being sue happy and start being responsible for their own actions.
This guy clearly broke the law by having a fake ID.
He got what he deserved.
Its time for Judges to start throwing these freevelous lawsuits out of their courts and put the responsibility back on individuals!!
Fairness – You said it was a good thing I don\’t run the country as I would be a dictator. How you misconstrued what I had written is beyond me. Basic points of what the majority people here are stating is that one must have personal accountability for their actions. If you would stop grandstanding and use your head, you might not sound like such a dolt.
Obviously written by someone not in the industry. \”compassion\” has no place in insurance nor the Courts. Compassion is why we are in the \”judicial hell\” that we are currently facing. This kid is a total idiot, he took no consideration into anyone or anything else but himself and you think he deserves compassion. this dolt should be happy he is alive. he is a criminal as worst and a liar at best. Too bad he was not arrested for DUI and sent to prison, wheelchair or not. What\’s really sickening is that this jackhole is making money off of his own stupidity, deceit and lies.
I only have compassion for the young man\’s family as they have to help him deal with his physical limitations. This young man was totally in the wrong and should not be allowed to receive anything from his employer or the other establishment that served him unless it can be proven that he was drunk beyond a reasonable double when they served him the alcohol. The young man is over age 18 so, he isn\’t a minor – he can make decisions and bind contracts. The fact that the young man had a fake ID should completely remove both establishments that served him from being fined for serving alcohol to a minor and should remove any point that he was under age during the trial. The fake ID established that the restaurants were serving alcohol to a person of legal age -period. Just because the employees of the establishments knew him does not mean that they knew his was under age 21. The owner should have known he was underage but, the owner may not have been there when the kid was being served.
Compassion is something we all need more of, but compassion is not really the issue here.
If the facts are that an underage kid purchases & uses a fake ID (& it works) to obtain alcoholic beverages, ingests the alcohol & becomes to drunk to drive, he should call a cab, just like us old drunks do!
The fact that he intentionally drove while intoxicated is something that most have done in their lifetime, but this time he really messed up & in the process has messed up the rest of his life & those that are close to him in that they too have to live with his injuries & limitations now & someone will have to take up the job of helping him.
He is entitled to the Government funding because we are a Country full of compassionate people that took into consideration that some people will need monetary help & services if they become disabled. No Problem (kinda… but that\’s my opinion)
He should not be entitled to any monetary gain, from any source, for the blatant disregard of the law & now he is suffering the consequences of his actions.
Thank God that he didn\’t kill or injure anyone else like this!
Massachusetts the land of Ted Kennedy and someone should pay for my injuries. It\’s not my responsibility that I was underage and had a fake ID and the employees don\’t see the consequences of their actions. No the corporations must pay for an individuals stupidity and of course insurance companies have the deep pockets so it\’s all alright, no harm done. Don\’t take responsibility for your actions and just pass the buck, irrespective of the consequences. They should fire every one at Carraba\’s who served him, fire him for knowingly purchasing liquor and accepting it from employees, close the restaurant and file for bankruptcy. Then hold a telethon for the poor idiot. Now that\’s compassion.
I agree, Mary, that somewhere after telling us to change the laws, Fairness\’s post turned into something of a rant.
However, he (she?) posed a very good question that you did not answer. Had Nunez harmed/killed some unfortunate innocent third party, how would you feel about that person\’s ability to go after the restaurants?
Another question for all. How young would Nunez, fake ID and all, have had to have been before you feel he would be warranted in making a claim against the restaurants?
First of all, my apologys to Mary – I was on a rant and calling her a dictator was just flat out rude an uncalled for. I am sorry.
Secondly, I have been in this industry for 20 yrs and have had my fill of death and destruction day in and day out. It\’s easy to become cynical when faced with daily tradgedy and fraud, and I have to occasionally remind myself to step back and remember the service I (and all agents, adjusters, underwriters ect) provide to the public thru insurance. I have to remember that the vast majority of people are honest and quite entitled to the benefits they or their employers have paid for by purchasing insurance.
Finally, if you would read the posts I have entered, you will note that nowhere did I say the kid should be entitled to any benefits. However, under the law he is entitled to his day in court to determine if some other party (restraunt) is legally liable and contributed to the whole tragic incident. It\’s not our place to deny him or anyone else that right. What a court/jury decides must be based on the law, not on whether or not we feel the kid deserved what he got or that he is not entitled to any money. The general public may not always agree with the results (see OJ verdict), but it is what it is.
If as a society we don\’t like the law, we need to work to change it. Ranting and raving about the unfairness of life does no one any good. Talk to your legislator and make your voice heard. In the meantime, we have to live with the law as written. Some people get much more then they honestly deserve, and some get a lot less then they deserve. But, I will take the good with the bad, as our system remains the best in the world.
I am off my soapbox now. And yes, I do feel sorry for the kid. He made a mistake, a tragic one, but I am willing to bet he did not \”intend\” to end up a quad, no more then anyone who smokes intends to end up with cancer or someone who eats to much intends to end up with heart disease,diabetes ect. (the list can go on and on) ***** and moan all you want, but I will not be the one who says \”he got what he deserved\”. I still have a heart after all these years.
This has been quite a discussion, thus far.
I am willing to concede the fact that my own opinions are not the law, nor should they be construde as such. I am also willing to concede that even THIS foolish unlucky soul deserves his day in court…
I am not from the Northeast, I am from Texas, so my opinions on certain things may differ greatly from other citizens of these great United States. Having said that, let the citizens who are the voting, tax paying public send a message that these types of frivalous, unwarranted lawsuits will not be tolerated. Let the lawsuit happy John Q. Public know that just because they screw up on their own accord, it doesn\’t mean that society or any other entity owes them a dime for their mistakes. If they want to get rich by being lucky…play the lottery.
We wouldn\’t be having these types of discussions if that message were sent on a regular basis.