RG – we shouldn’t accept decades of wait. That’s what’s a crock. These people waited decades until money started being handed out. If they truly wanted it to stop, if they wanted action, if they wanted to put their lives back together, they would have spoken up years ago. My family is nothing special. The difference between me and these schmucks is that I just wanted the right thing done. It’s easy. You talk to a trusted adult, they call the cops, you talk to a few more people and after all the embarrasment is over you’re free.
Stuff like this doesn’t have to haunt you and scar you for life. You remember, but you don’t have to let it affect you. I don’t think they deserve the money, they deserve to be told that if they’ve dealt with it for 20 or 30 years they can just bloody well go on dealing with it. It’s people like this that create a victim mentality and cause more people to crash instead of keeping themselves together and getting over the bad things that life tosses you. My vote is we eliminate the word “victim” from the lexicon. Eliminate the word and eliminate the sentiment.
I get upset when people claim they don’t have the strength to go on with a normal life, but if society would just give them tons of cash, or welfare, or something they don’t have to work for, that they’ll be okay. No. People need a good swift kick in the arse and to be told that they’ll be fine.
There should be no monetary awards to people who come crawling out of the woodwork after 30 years nor should their suits be allowed. They have had sufficient time and opportunity to raise their issue and failed to do so. It doesen’t take anyone 30 years to speak out if it’s really an issue with them. Only, now, when there’s money involved, are they bellying up to the trough. In this latest case there is no allegation of damages and since “it’s never about the money”, why ask for any? These people should be satisfied that the Catholic church is finally taking proactive steps to address the problem. I find it curious that haven’t been any recent allegations of abuse……….just these dusty, musty cases that are piling on for the money.
The reason the Dioceses are finally taking any steps in their musty old problem is because it’s hurting them in the purse strings. So much for proactivity – but please blame it on the victim moving sooo slowly. They deserve nothing? We can see where the love of money began and remains.
Let’s all cry and feel sorry for the Catholic Church after they ignored the fact that priests were molesting young boys for years. Now they have to pay…. no money doesn’t make up for what these people went through but it’s enough to make the Church wake up and maybe put a stop to it! There is plenty of money tied up in real estate. Where I live, the Catholic Diocese owns a mansion on the coast – sell that to start with!
There’s a statute of limitations for everything else and these kinds situations should be no different. How long should it take a child or adult to decide they must come forward and report abuse? 20-30 YEARS? I don’t buy that nonsense. That is unreasonable by any standard. The fact that these “people” are making an issue of it now coincides with monetary awards that started to be made. Money heals nothing. It’s a myth created by plaintiff lawyers that money grubbing people swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Pay their shrink expenses (if any), otherwise apologize and take precautions to prevent future recurrences. I have to agree w/Dread that we haven’t heard of any recent allegations which leads me to believe these were “sins of the past”. These people need to get on with their lives.
Jenn: nobody’s suggesting anybody feel sorry for the Catholics, but you don’t indict a reglion over the acts of a few misguided persons. In the large scheme of things, the number of priests who were involved is miniscule. And your comments smack of a grudge since you advocate selling assets to throw money at these claimants. The Catholic church isn’t the only church with a few assets. The unfortunate reality is our legal system is inadequate. It’s only rememdy is throwing money at people. Sad commentary.
There’s NO right for the money, but I do agree with justice. As far as 30 years later, if you yourself or anyone in your life has EVER been sexually abused as a child, then you may understand how it could take so long. Especially since he was suppose to be the closest person to God! For those of you who’ve never been or don’t know anyone who hasn’t, the only thing you need to comment about is the money situation and keep your mouth shut about the rest…mainly the timeframe!
The number of priests involved isn’t miniscule. The Catholic Religion created an environment for pervasive perversion by not allowing their priests to marry (based on greed). They covered it up and allowed it to continue – based on greed. And now it is finally time to pay. (And who’s to say current settlements don’t call for gag order clauses.) If they weren’t paying now would they have tried to fix the problem??
I think the reality of the situation is evident in these posts:
1) The Catholic Chuch was hiding these issues and was going to do nothing until “hit in the purse”
2) Those harmed should be compensated fairly.
3) The award here is completely out of proportion to the damages. This size award is for individuals with, for instance, massive brain damage or spinal injuries forever changing their lives.
4) The award is punitive, but hurts current church members way more than it will ever hurt the perpetrators.
5) Should be appealed as far as they can take it.
Hey Ric-so in your number 3 you’re saying that sexual abuse doesn’t FOREVER change someone’s life, like a massive brain injury? You’re living in a fairytale…just because it isn’t physical and can’t be seen doesn’t mean that it doesn’t do damage EVERY DAY. Perhaps I should have told my molester to cut off my arm instead of repeatedly raping me and then I would have invoked a little more sympathy from folks like you because you could have “seen” the damage.
RG & TP. I’m very sorry you two have personal experience with this, but this is an insurance blog, not a victim’s blog. I would like to better understand your position so please indulge a sincere question. Why ask for money? If it “isn’t about the money” and recognizing that money doesn’t “heal” anything, why chase it? To the extent a financial penalty “got the attention” of the church, I understand that idea. But the point has been made and prevention efforts being made. With all due respect, I have a hard time understanding how and why it would take anyone 20-30 years to come forward. And the timing appears suspect. Money started flowing and that seemed to provide incentive for coming forward?
Okay, Mr. or Ms. RM whomever…I stated in the original that if you can’t understand why it would take 20-30 years, then don’t add your 2 cents. I don’t agree with the amount of money in any way. Justice would be enough. The money is rediculous! I didn’t disagree with anyone there! Please read the original posting again! Quit paying attention to only 1 part!!!
Eli – I have no grudge against the Church but finally, with the suits, the Diocese is waking up and putting a stop to it. I can’t imagine being a young boy looking up to a priest as the closest thing to God and him molesting me. The lawsuits are making a difference – it didn’t seem like the Church took it seriously and just swept it all under the rug until money became involved.
It didn’t take me or my sister all that long to tell people – so I don’t understand waiting decades either. We knew something was wrong so we told people.
As for the money – if you want to get money from the church to make them pay attention don’t give it to the plaintiff. Give the money to a fund that goes toward doing some good in this world.
Oh, and fix the statute of limitations. There is one, but is starts from the time you “realize you were harmed” and that’s stupid.
I’m so happy to know that it didn’t take you and your sister “all that long” to tell people. That’s great! Unfortunately it takes some longer than others to feel they can open up and tell someone.
Aside from that, for all you folks that are griping about the $$$, let me ask you something…what amount of money does it take to give a CHILD their innocence back? What about their trust in adults, namely the adults they were taught to have the utmost respect for? What about their virginity, something that is supposed to be holy and kept pure? There is no amount of money that can bring any of those things back, so why can’t we just let these folks have what the jury has awarded to them? I’d rather see someone get monetary compensation for something like this than having someone spill a cup of coffee in their laps…
1. Anyone who thinks that the wave of scandal has caused changes that have eliminated the problem of priests molesting children, think twice. Google Daniel McCormack from Chicago. The difference between what happened years ago and what has happened with Fr. McCormack is that the church now knows that its old approaches were unacceptable. It wouldn’t have learned its lesson witrhout the pain of having to pay out some serious dough. If it hadn’t cost them money, they would have continued to handle it the same way they did in the 60’s and 70’s. After all those people stopped complaining. They got over it and went on with their lives …. or did they.
2. The suggestion that people are only stepping forward because there is big money involved is the kind of idea that insurance people would come up with — the numbers of lawsuits are like people getting onto a crashed bus to claim that they were a passenger when the bus crashed. If “fraud” were an issue and there was even one case which was fraudulent, that case would have been bandied in the press about by the church and their insurers and defense counsel to raise a stink of suspicion about all of the claimants and to deter more claims by raising the idea in the heads of the victims that they might be called liars yet again.
3. The numbers coming forward are not about an insurance gold rush, but a reflection of the anger that people feel after finding about the scope of the problem, the church’s knowledge of it, and their complicity in allowing the molesters access to children again and again.
4. A swift kick the arse — perhaps people should rub dirt on it also?!?!? So much for the ideas of healing and compassion ……
If you read lastbat’s entries, he is NOT opposed to justice. His question, as is mine, is why are people coming out now that there is monetary value involved? As he has also said, if it is not about the money, then why can’t the dollar amounts awarded be placed for the good of the people/communities instead of the victim. He is not claiming these people to be fraudulant by any means. You should read the comments before you attack.
The reason that people are coming forward now has more to do with point 3 — anger over discovery of the scope of the problem — than a desire for cash.
If you watch or read any of the stories about the priest sex abuse scandal, many of these people thought that they were basically alone, especially since the church basically blew off the complaints that were raised to diocese officials at the time. There is power in numbers, especially when you have been carrying an especially painful and private secret for a very long time. When the scandal hit the press, may people felt empowered to talk about it when they did not before.
As far as the money, I think most of them are motivated by a desire to see changes made an acknowledgement of wrongdoing. Also, as to punitive damages in many states, the government takes a portion of the proceeds. I would also be suprised if you see many of these victims living high on the hog with whatever money they get. And if they do, so what? I wasn’t molested by a priest, he was.
What’s the difference if the abuse happened last year or 20 years ago? If it happened these predators need to be thrown in jail where they can get a taste of their own medicine. Unfortunately, it took the monetary awards to wake up the leadership.
BGD – well said. Nothing was being done years ago. Unfortunately it took hitting the Church in the pocketbook to have the problem acknowledged instead of just moving the priests around to molest someone elses child in a different parish.
These issues often do not get resolved in the best manner because of fundamental procedural defects.
One of those defects is that punitive damages are paid to the victim which turns legal recourse into a jackpot system.
Punitive damages should be paid into funds for communal benefit because the idea of punitive damages is to punish the wrongdoer and discourage the antisocial behavior in question, not to enrich the plaintiff.
A state crime victims’ compensation fund would be good example of what should receive punitive damages.
Plaintiffs should receive only actual damages with statutory limits on alleged emotional and psychological damages which are by nature intangible and uncertain.
Plaintiffs’ lawyers could still get a percentage of punitive damages but it should be limited by law so that they still go after it but are not as preposterously enriched as they are now.
There will always be donkeys on juries who throw other peoples’ money around like drunken sailors. That will not change.
However, procedures could be improved.
The public does not demand any such changes so the get-rich tort
system continues without adjustment.
Maybe that is what people want. They love to see jackpots and believe that lawyers are heroes who deserve to become extremely wealthy from contingency fees.
Jury members are fallible and some are even quite stupid. Procedural improvements could be made but won’t happen until the public has the wit to demand it.
RG – we shouldn’t accept decades of wait. That’s what’s a crock. These people waited decades until money started being handed out. If they truly wanted it to stop, if they wanted action, if they wanted to put their lives back together, they would have spoken up years ago. My family is nothing special. The difference between me and these schmucks is that I just wanted the right thing done. It’s easy. You talk to a trusted adult, they call the cops, you talk to a few more people and after all the embarrasment is over you’re free.
Stuff like this doesn’t have to haunt you and scar you for life. You remember, but you don’t have to let it affect you. I don’t think they deserve the money, they deserve to be told that if they’ve dealt with it for 20 or 30 years they can just bloody well go on dealing with it. It’s people like this that create a victim mentality and cause more people to crash instead of keeping themselves together and getting over the bad things that life tosses you. My vote is we eliminate the word “victim” from the lexicon. Eliminate the word and eliminate the sentiment.
I get upset when people claim they don’t have the strength to go on with a normal life, but if society would just give them tons of cash, or welfare, or something they don’t have to work for, that they’ll be okay. No. People need a good swift kick in the arse and to be told that they’ll be fine.
Sorry. I’ll get off my soapbox now.
There should be no monetary awards to people who come crawling out of the woodwork after 30 years nor should their suits be allowed. They have had sufficient time and opportunity to raise their issue and failed to do so. It doesen’t take anyone 30 years to speak out if it’s really an issue with them. Only, now, when there’s money involved, are they bellying up to the trough. In this latest case there is no allegation of damages and since “it’s never about the money”, why ask for any? These people should be satisfied that the Catholic church is finally taking proactive steps to address the problem. I find it curious that haven’t been any recent allegations of abuse……….just these dusty, musty cases that are piling on for the money.
The reason the Dioceses are finally taking any steps in their musty old problem is because it’s hurting them in the purse strings. So much for proactivity – but please blame it on the victim moving sooo slowly. They deserve nothing? We can see where the love of money began and remains.
Let’s all cry and feel sorry for the Catholic Church after they ignored the fact that priests were molesting young boys for years. Now they have to pay…. no money doesn’t make up for what these people went through but it’s enough to make the Church wake up and maybe put a stop to it! There is plenty of money tied up in real estate. Where I live, the Catholic Diocese owns a mansion on the coast – sell that to start with!
There’s a statute of limitations for everything else and these kinds situations should be no different. How long should it take a child or adult to decide they must come forward and report abuse? 20-30 YEARS? I don’t buy that nonsense. That is unreasonable by any standard. The fact that these “people” are making an issue of it now coincides with monetary awards that started to be made. Money heals nothing. It’s a myth created by plaintiff lawyers that money grubbing people swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Pay their shrink expenses (if any), otherwise apologize and take precautions to prevent future recurrences. I have to agree w/Dread that we haven’t heard of any recent allegations which leads me to believe these were “sins of the past”. These people need to get on with their lives.
Jenn: nobody’s suggesting anybody feel sorry for the Catholics, but you don’t indict a reglion over the acts of a few misguided persons. In the large scheme of things, the number of priests who were involved is miniscule. And your comments smack of a grudge since you advocate selling assets to throw money at these claimants. The Catholic church isn’t the only church with a few assets. The unfortunate reality is our legal system is inadequate. It’s only rememdy is throwing money at people. Sad commentary.
There’s NO right for the money, but I do agree with justice. As far as 30 years later, if you yourself or anyone in your life has EVER been sexually abused as a child, then you may understand how it could take so long. Especially since he was suppose to be the closest person to God! For those of you who’ve never been or don’t know anyone who hasn’t, the only thing you need to comment about is the money situation and keep your mouth shut about the rest…mainly the timeframe!
The number of priests involved isn’t miniscule. The Catholic Religion created an environment for pervasive perversion by not allowing their priests to marry (based on greed). They covered it up and allowed it to continue – based on greed. And now it is finally time to pay. (And who’s to say current settlements don’t call for gag order clauses.) If they weren’t paying now would they have tried to fix the problem??
I think the reality of the situation is evident in these posts:
1) The Catholic Chuch was hiding these issues and was going to do nothing until “hit in the purse”
2) Those harmed should be compensated fairly.
3) The award here is completely out of proportion to the damages. This size award is for individuals with, for instance, massive brain damage or spinal injuries forever changing their lives.
4) The award is punitive, but hurts current church members way more than it will ever hurt the perpetrators.
5) Should be appealed as far as they can take it.
Hey Ric-so in your number 3 you’re saying that sexual abuse doesn’t FOREVER change someone’s life, like a massive brain injury? You’re living in a fairytale…just because it isn’t physical and can’t be seen doesn’t mean that it doesn’t do damage EVERY DAY. Perhaps I should have told my molester to cut off my arm instead of repeatedly raping me and then I would have invoked a little more sympathy from folks like you because you could have “seen” the damage.
THANK YOU RG!!! YOU’VE COMPLETELY SAID THAT PERFECTLY!!! SORRY IT HAPPENED TO YOU AS WELL!!!
RG & TP. I’m very sorry you two have personal experience with this, but this is an insurance blog, not a victim’s blog. I would like to better understand your position so please indulge a sincere question. Why ask for money? If it “isn’t about the money” and recognizing that money doesn’t “heal” anything, why chase it? To the extent a financial penalty “got the attention” of the church, I understand that idea. But the point has been made and prevention efforts being made. With all due respect, I have a hard time understanding how and why it would take anyone 20-30 years to come forward. And the timing appears suspect. Money started flowing and that seemed to provide incentive for coming forward?
Okay, Mr. or Ms. RM whomever…I stated in the original that if you can’t understand why it would take 20-30 years, then don’t add your 2 cents. I don’t agree with the amount of money in any way. Justice would be enough. The money is rediculous! I didn’t disagree with anyone there! Please read the original posting again! Quit paying attention to only 1 part!!!
Eli – I have no grudge against the Church but finally, with the suits, the Diocese is waking up and putting a stop to it. I can’t imagine being a young boy looking up to a priest as the closest thing to God and him molesting me. The lawsuits are making a difference – it didn’t seem like the Church took it seriously and just swept it all under the rug until money became involved.
It didn’t take me or my sister all that long to tell people – so I don’t understand waiting decades either. We knew something was wrong so we told people.
As for the money – if you want to get money from the church to make them pay attention don’t give it to the plaintiff. Give the money to a fund that goes toward doing some good in this world.
Oh, and fix the statute of limitations. There is one, but is starts from the time you “realize you were harmed” and that’s stupid.
I’m so happy to know that it didn’t take you and your sister “all that long” to tell people. That’s great! Unfortunately it takes some longer than others to feel they can open up and tell someone.
Aside from that, for all you folks that are griping about the $$$, let me ask you something…what amount of money does it take to give a CHILD their innocence back? What about their trust in adults, namely the adults they were taught to have the utmost respect for? What about their virginity, something that is supposed to be holy and kept pure? There is no amount of money that can bring any of those things back, so why can’t we just let these folks have what the jury has awarded to them? I’d rather see someone get monetary compensation for something like this than having someone spill a cup of coffee in their laps…
Amen Lastbat. Well said.
1. Anyone who thinks that the wave of scandal has caused changes that have eliminated the problem of priests molesting children, think twice. Google Daniel McCormack from Chicago. The difference between what happened years ago and what has happened with Fr. McCormack is that the church now knows that its old approaches were unacceptable. It wouldn’t have learned its lesson witrhout the pain of having to pay out some serious dough. If it hadn’t cost them money, they would have continued to handle it the same way they did in the 60’s and 70’s. After all those people stopped complaining. They got over it and went on with their lives …. or did they.
2. The suggestion that people are only stepping forward because there is big money involved is the kind of idea that insurance people would come up with — the numbers of lawsuits are like people getting onto a crashed bus to claim that they were a passenger when the bus crashed. If “fraud” were an issue and there was even one case which was fraudulent, that case would have been bandied in the press about by the church and their insurers and defense counsel to raise a stink of suspicion about all of the claimants and to deter more claims by raising the idea in the heads of the victims that they might be called liars yet again.
3. The numbers coming forward are not about an insurance gold rush, but a reflection of the anger that people feel after finding about the scope of the problem, the church’s knowledge of it, and their complicity in allowing the molesters access to children again and again.
4. A swift kick the arse — perhaps people should rub dirt on it also?!?!? So much for the ideas of healing and compassion ……
If you read lastbat’s entries, he is NOT opposed to justice. His question, as is mine, is why are people coming out now that there is monetary value involved? As he has also said, if it is not about the money, then why can’t the dollar amounts awarded be placed for the good of the people/communities instead of the victim. He is not claiming these people to be fraudulant by any means. You should read the comments before you attack.
The reason that people are coming forward now has more to do with point 3 — anger over discovery of the scope of the problem — than a desire for cash.
If you watch or read any of the stories about the priest sex abuse scandal, many of these people thought that they were basically alone, especially since the church basically blew off the complaints that were raised to diocese officials at the time. There is power in numbers, especially when you have been carrying an especially painful and private secret for a very long time. When the scandal hit the press, may people felt empowered to talk about it when they did not before.
As far as the money, I think most of them are motivated by a desire to see changes made an acknowledgement of wrongdoing. Also, as to punitive damages in many states, the government takes a portion of the proceeds. I would also be suprised if you see many of these victims living high on the hog with whatever money they get. And if they do, so what? I wasn’t molested by a priest, he was.
lastbat, RG, BGD,
FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO!
What’s the difference if the abuse happened last year or 20 years ago? If it happened these predators need to be thrown in jail where they can get a taste of their own medicine. Unfortunately, it took the monetary awards to wake up the leadership.
BGD – well said. Nothing was being done years ago. Unfortunately it took hitting the Church in the pocketbook to have the problem acknowledged instead of just moving the priests around to molest someone elses child in a different parish.
These issues often do not get resolved in the best manner because of fundamental procedural defects.
One of those defects is that punitive damages are paid to the victim which turns legal recourse into a jackpot system.
Punitive damages should be paid into funds for communal benefit because the idea of punitive damages is to punish the wrongdoer and discourage the antisocial behavior in question, not to enrich the plaintiff.
A state crime victims’ compensation fund would be good example of what should receive punitive damages.
Plaintiffs should receive only actual damages with statutory limits on alleged emotional and psychological damages which are by nature intangible and uncertain.
Plaintiffs’ lawyers could still get a percentage of punitive damages but it should be limited by law so that they still go after it but are not as preposterously enriched as they are now.
There will always be donkeys on juries who throw other peoples’ money around like drunken sailors. That will not change.
However, procedures could be improved.
The public does not demand any such changes so the get-rich tort
system continues without adjustment.
Maybe that is what people want. They love to see jackpots and believe that lawyers are heroes who deserve to become extremely wealthy from contingency fees.
Jury members are fallible and some are even quite stupid. Procedural improvements could be made but won’t happen until the public has the wit to demand it.
The jackpots are there. Sue at every opportunity.
Alan and Dread are completely on right in this matter.