Ask anyone who has ever handled no-fault claims anywhere and the answer will be “Are you kidding,of course no-fault results in fraud.” The doc-in-a-box scams, attorneys on every corner, crooked courts and arbitration systems all combine to bilk billions out of the auto insurance system, all at the expense of insureds. Plus, the lawyers use no-fault to build minor injuries up artificially to increase the value of their liability claims so the scams hit both sides. Please, this is a no-brainer.
Taking your thought a step further, Michigan has to be #1 in NF fraud even way ahead of FL. FL’s maximum limit is quite high, but MI has NO LIMIT! In fact, like the article pointed out, they have UNLIMITED LIFETIME BENEFITS.
I don’t even think you can scrub medical bills in MI without going to court first (I could be wrong) which means carriers are forced to pay out 100% of every bill forever. What kind of system is that!?
That’s not entirely true. Insurers are on the hook for the first 500-600k and then it goes to the state reinsurance pool, sticking the tax payers. The lucky SOBs get to pay twice!
If EVERYONE had the no fault things might not be so radically different, but with only a few states having no fault, and I suspect never having made a 100% saturation rate nationwide, there were always alternate plans resulting in uneven coverage. I’m not in the business but reading this I am suspect of facts since it is an industry sponsored group. The AMA will fight for or against medicine with the same slanted input. A political party will spin the tale to their advantage.
As for the fraud, I know too many people in the auto repair business to ever think that fraud will go away, fraud in body work and fraud in medical coverage.
Common, Yes, there is a LOT of fraud in No Fault, as you indicated: doc in a box, attnys on every corner… But, if we scrap NO FAULT, Many More claims will need to be litigated, ADDING to the attnys on every corner and making “injured” plaintiffs more receptive to supporting their injuries with… increased and excessive trips to… the “docs in a box”… I don’t see how scrapping no fault will solve the real problem of fraud and excess? But, I don’t have an answer either…What’s the answer? Anyone?
Part of the answer, in no particular order, includes, and is certainly not limited to:
Enacting more “No Pay No Play” statutes
Forcing providers to bill at reasonable and customary rates
Allowing medical bill reviews to identify up-coding
Mandatory arbitration (1st party only)
Requiring IME’s at scheduled intervals (e.g. every 30 days for minor injuries or longer for more significant injuries)
Only allowing a certain number of modalities per day (no more “acupuncture, massage, physical therapy, e-stim, chiropractor visits and neuro visits in a single day”)
and I’m sure I’m missing a bunch too
I forget which state (FL? MO?) but I also like reducing the available coverage if the injured party didn’t (a) get transported by an ambulance to the E/R or (b) didn’t seek treatment within the first couple of weeks post accident.
None of this “it’s been 60 days and my first treatment is MUA” or something along those lines.
The abuse on the medical side are well documented. The discussions by the lawmakers of limiting medical procedure fees to 160% of the allowed Medicare reimbursement schedule would eliminate much of the high medical premium on the policies. Plus in Michigan there is the catastrophic claim fund for medical expenses over $567,000 which is administered by the State. Every registered vehicle in the state pays over $180.00 into the fund which is exempt from FOIA inquiries and is accessible by select few persons. In 34 years of our agency, we have never had a claim referred to the fund due to the dollar cost of the claim. We sure would like to know how much is there and what the true expenses are. State Slush Fund more like it. Just sayin’
Interesting about the 34 years and no claim that high. I have a customer here in Texas that had a major accident in Michigan. Of course they didn’t even have PIP on their policy, but since it’s required in Michigan the company had to pay. 4 drivers drove off the side of a mountain, not wearing their seatbelts. Each driver is at that $567k limit for a policy with no premium collected for PIP coverage. If they had been Michigan residents, they’d be collecting from that fund now.
34 years as an agent and never had a claim go to the MCCA? That’s a very impressive record, some might say you should play the lotto. The number of claims that does go to the MCCA fund is low but the issue is they stay there for years and years and many of them are brain and spine injuries which require round the clock care and the care is expensive.
Ask anyone who has ever handled no-fault claims anywhere and the answer will be “Are you kidding,of course no-fault results in fraud.” The doc-in-a-box scams, attorneys on every corner, crooked courts and arbitration systems all combine to bilk billions out of the auto insurance system, all at the expense of insureds. Plus, the lawyers use no-fault to build minor injuries up artificially to increase the value of their liability claims so the scams hit both sides. Please, this is a no-brainer.
Taking your thought a step further, Michigan has to be #1 in NF fraud even way ahead of FL. FL’s maximum limit is quite high, but MI has NO LIMIT! In fact, like the article pointed out, they have UNLIMITED LIFETIME BENEFITS.
I don’t even think you can scrub medical bills in MI without going to court first (I could be wrong) which means carriers are forced to pay out 100% of every bill forever. What kind of system is that!?
That’s not entirely true. Insurers are on the hook for the first 500-600k and then it goes to the state reinsurance pool, sticking the tax payers. The lucky SOBs get to pay twice!
Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for the info!
If EVERYONE had the no fault things might not be so radically different, but with only a few states having no fault, and I suspect never having made a 100% saturation rate nationwide, there were always alternate plans resulting in uneven coverage. I’m not in the business but reading this I am suspect of facts since it is an industry sponsored group. The AMA will fight for or against medicine with the same slanted input. A political party will spin the tale to their advantage.
As for the fraud, I know too many people in the auto repair business to ever think that fraud will go away, fraud in body work and fraud in medical coverage.
Common, Yes, there is a LOT of fraud in No Fault, as you indicated: doc in a box, attnys on every corner… But, if we scrap NO FAULT, Many More claims will need to be litigated, ADDING to the attnys on every corner and making “injured” plaintiffs more receptive to supporting their injuries with… increased and excessive trips to… the “docs in a box”… I don’t see how scrapping no fault will solve the real problem of fraud and excess? But, I don’t have an answer either…What’s the answer? Anyone?
Part of the answer, in no particular order, includes, and is certainly not limited to:
Enacting more “No Pay No Play” statutes
Forcing providers to bill at reasonable and customary rates
Allowing medical bill reviews to identify up-coding
Mandatory arbitration (1st party only)
Requiring IME’s at scheduled intervals (e.g. every 30 days for minor injuries or longer for more significant injuries)
Only allowing a certain number of modalities per day (no more “acupuncture, massage, physical therapy, e-stim, chiropractor visits and neuro visits in a single day”)
and I’m sure I’m missing a bunch too
I forget which state (FL? MO?) but I also like reducing the available coverage if the injured party didn’t (a) get transported by an ambulance to the E/R or (b) didn’t seek treatment within the first couple of weeks post accident.
None of this “it’s been 60 days and my first treatment is MUA” or something along those lines.
What did I miss?
The abuse on the medical side are well documented. The discussions by the lawmakers of limiting medical procedure fees to 160% of the allowed Medicare reimbursement schedule would eliminate much of the high medical premium on the policies. Plus in Michigan there is the catastrophic claim fund for medical expenses over $567,000 which is administered by the State. Every registered vehicle in the state pays over $180.00 into the fund which is exempt from FOIA inquiries and is accessible by select few persons. In 34 years of our agency, we have never had a claim referred to the fund due to the dollar cost of the claim. We sure would like to know how much is there and what the true expenses are. State Slush Fund more like it. Just sayin’
Uh oh. I had no idea about the MI fund for medicals. Looks like I’ve got some more knowledge to absorb, as is usual for the rest of anyone’s life :)
Interesting about the 34 years and no claim that high. I have a customer here in Texas that had a major accident in Michigan. Of course they didn’t even have PIP on their policy, but since it’s required in Michigan the company had to pay. 4 drivers drove off the side of a mountain, not wearing their seatbelts. Each driver is at that $567k limit for a policy with no premium collected for PIP coverage. If they had been Michigan residents, they’d be collecting from that fund now.
AL, do some homework: http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/Portals/71/Annual_Statement_June_30_2015_Summary.pdf
very easy information to get if you go to the MCCA website.
34 years as an agent and never had a claim go to the MCCA? That’s a very impressive record, some might say you should play the lotto. The number of claims that does go to the MCCA fund is low but the issue is they stay there for years and years and many of them are brain and spine injuries which require round the clock care and the care is expensive.
…we pay the highest auto insurance in the nation. Why aren’t we screaming it from the roof tops?
Michigan needs to repeal the No-Fault scam.
Ohhh wait, all the Politicians are in bed with the Insurance Lobbyists….
If our No-Fault is so great, why aren’t the other 49 states doing it? Are they all stupid or are we the stupid ones?
I dont want life-time health insurance, I want a choice.
People from coast to coast are screaming about being forced to buy Obama care. Welcome to Michigan. We’ve been forced to buy insurance for 40 years.
Its called the No-Fault scam (and we’re sick of it)