it is time for the federal government to alter the policies of insurance companies in denying legitimate claims knowing the majority of consumers cant afford to fight in court.the legal fees outweigh the claim so the average consumer will think that it is not beneficial to proceed with litigation.wake up washington.insurance companies are using taxpayer money to fight paying insurance claims.they are in a no lose situation.the insured pays the premium,has a loss,insurance company denies claim using a loophole in the policy,especially under marine policies and then the insured must expend thousands to fight the denial in court,if the insured wins depending on which stae you are in the legal fees will outweigh the claim.meanwhile the insurance company raises premiums to make up for any lost profits.dont forget that 90% of claim denied insureds go away without collecting a dime because they cant afford to fight big brother.what a scam these insurance companies have.we need a federal law that will allow all courts to render punitive damages and attorney fees to insureds who are victorious at trial and then maybe the fraudulent insurance company business practices will stop.if florida a state that couldnt get its vote count right has adapted to this policy every state including new york should set precedent.
This is getting really dumb. Why don’t we just do away with the commission angle since we are being treated as brokers anyway, and just go for straight billing of the consumer like lawyers and Real Estate Agents. That way the consumer can’t complain and neither can the government. Also, it would lead to the transparency that the government is talking about and then everyone could be quiet and get on to real business.
Such a simple and correct solution. I’ll bet not every agent wants to do this. Take a look at the amount of income the large regional and local agents make from contingent commissions. Contrary to what they say, the local and regional agents place business based on their contingency relationsh. I have seen it happen over the years.
As a reinsurance broker that receives reinsurance commissions for the contracts arranged between parties, adding any type of additional fee understates the reinsured’s true actual cost of risk transfer. But, on the other hand, it does help feed my family.
Mike may be right, get rid of commissions and let agents and brokers charge fees like lawyers.
Then we can charge $100 to $125 per hour for homeowners and auto policies, $175 to $250 per hour for business insurance, etc. We would need to find out the proper fee for claims handling, inspections, phone calls, faxes, invoicing, etc. It could work, but it would change the way people accept the agent…force more onto the internet and make insurance a commodity.
It will happen someday, but the fallout will be tough.
As a retail agent in a small town, I find it absurd that agents are being held out to be the bad guys. We did NOT create this illegal, criminal mess, but only the ego, money hungry publicly-traded Brokers (Marsh, AON, etc) have caused a stir among the honest hard-working agents throughout the insurance industry.
The individuals involved in the bid-rigging, etc should be criminally prosecuted and serve time. We have no-place in our industry for those types of people. Unfortunately, the bad apples in our industry are ruining it for all the good people within our respectable industry.
Contingency income is not a guarantee and for those who count on it are not to smart of business people. Reward for production, profitability and growth are no different than any other sales organization throughout the world.
No one said that it would be easy. And the public is not really sure now how we get paid. Especially the smaller consumer of which there are many more than the huge accounts. Many agents now charge for services like certs and auto ID cards so why not bring it all into the open and keep the government out of the business?
Since Mr. Spitzer’s office approved of Marsh gobbling up the competition, it appears that we have more of a corrupt regulatory environment than brokers and companies.
Yes, Marsh and others involved in “price fixing” should be genuinely punished, but it looks like Spitzer should “enjoy” some punishment as well.
What I think is REALLY humorous is that now we have a US Senate who cannot figure out that campaign finance abuse is wrong trying to fix a problem that is miniscle by comparison!!
If you start charging a fee, most consumers are just going to go online and purchase insurance. Given the fact that most consumers usually are uneducated about insurance they will not feel as though paying for an agent will be worth it. Plus most insurance companies are going to have no way to convince agents to place business with them. To most people buying a home is a bigger deal than purchasing insurance, and even now people are starting to circumvent the real estate agent and buy online. Look at all of the websites popping up, forsalebyowner.com fsbo.com etc.
Consolidation leads to lack of competitions leads to monopolistic behavior, price gouging – I’m talking about St Paul/Travelers/USF&G/Aetna/Royal & Sunalliance/Atlantic Mutual Commercial – SOON TO BE SAFECO/AMERICAN STATES(?), and Commercial Union/General Accident/Atlantic Mutual Inland Marine or Liberty Mutual/Peerless just to name a few. (I’m sure I’m forgetting loads.)
When the leadership of the entire insurance industry is reduced to a few families and a cozy little “commission” of robber-barons, we need to be concerned, it’s all about status & legacy for a few rich men. One cannot conclude that reducing competition and choice is beneficial to any consumer.
And just think, 10 years ago we were worried about banks in insurance!
PS. ANY DIRT ON THE ST PAUL/TRAVELERS – SAFECO MERGER?
I would like to hear a discussion between Attorney General Spitzer and Sen Fitsgerald on how todays commercial insurance is bought and sold, regulated and controlled by agents and brokers. And how the fortune 500 companies are abused and subjected to unscrupulous and devious metheods by the brokers.
I think Jack makes a good point as to why you need a good agent. If he has a problem with claims, look to your agent not your Insurance Company. Of course the Att Gen and the good Senator probably don’t understand this either.
Once again we have an argument for fee for service since if we must assist the insured in claims handling, do we get anything for it. And what about all the advice we give throughout the year?
I agree with Insurance Dude. Ever since the “Financial Guys” got involved with the Insurance Industry it has gone down hill. As long as they make millions going from company to company arranging mergers and acquisitions we will all suffer from lack of markets and competition. We need insurance to be stable and competitive without all the swings in pricing and profitability. I’ll take a Selective Insurance Company over a St. Paul/etc etc etc any day.
Historically speaking, in times of economic need, it is always the salesmen and lawyers who find themselves outside the moral circles of the producers and the consumers of our societies. In the past their assets were seized and their lives taken.
I take it that by the way they ride rough-shod over other’s financial interests in today’s society, they are betting that human nature has changed.
The problem is not the thousands of smaller independant agents. We can hardly control our children much less large segments of insurance industry practices. Its the 25+ largest brokers and their errogant relations with insurance companies willing to contrive to win.
When I first started in insurance , I did not charge any fees what so ever to the client. After speaking with many agents and friends in the business, I realized that I should start. All I can say is that I was able to afford an additional office staffer due to the additional income. Better service for the clients at a small fee to each one.
I have plenty proof that fraudulent medical records from different medical facilities were submitted at my trial. I can prove that my own attorney allowed expert witnesses to lie as well. I have had to appeal my case on my own because of the circus the attorneys created. To add insult to injury, these insurance companies have fraudulently charged me for attorney fees. With so many people obstructing justice here, and after being told that they can not investigate because the records were from six years ago, what else is there, but to warn the public. My situation is far from isolated here!!!
it is time for the federal government to alter the policies of insurance companies in denying legitimate claims knowing the majority of consumers cant afford to fight in court.the legal fees outweigh the claim so the average consumer will think that it is not beneficial to proceed with litigation.wake up washington.insurance companies are using taxpayer money to fight paying insurance claims.they are in a no lose situation.the insured pays the premium,has a loss,insurance company denies claim using a loophole in the policy,especially under marine policies and then the insured must expend thousands to fight the denial in court,if the insured wins depending on which stae you are in the legal fees will outweigh the claim.meanwhile the insurance company raises premiums to make up for any lost profits.dont forget that 90% of claim denied insureds go away without collecting a dime because they cant afford to fight big brother.what a scam these insurance companies have.we need a federal law that will allow all courts to render punitive damages and attorney fees to insureds who are victorious at trial and then maybe the fraudulent insurance company business practices will stop.if florida a state that couldnt get its vote count right has adapted to this policy every state including new york should set precedent.
Steve’s comments don’t appear to have any relevancy to the articleat hand. Sounds like he has an axe to grind and this forum is as good as any.
This is getting really dumb. Why don’t we just do away with the commission angle since we are being treated as brokers anyway, and just go for straight billing of the consumer like lawyers and Real Estate Agents. That way the consumer can’t complain and neither can the government. Also, it would lead to the transparency that the government is talking about and then everyone could be quiet and get on to real business.
Such a simple and correct solution. I’ll bet not every agent wants to do this. Take a look at the amount of income the large regional and local agents make from contingent commissions. Contrary to what they say, the local and regional agents place business based on their contingency relationsh. I have seen it happen over the years.
As a reinsurance broker that receives reinsurance commissions for the contracts arranged between parties, adding any type of additional fee understates the reinsured’s true actual cost of risk transfer. But, on the other hand, it does help feed my family.
Mike may be right, get rid of commissions and let agents and brokers charge fees like lawyers.
Then we can charge $100 to $125 per hour for homeowners and auto policies, $175 to $250 per hour for business insurance, etc. We would need to find out the proper fee for claims handling, inspections, phone calls, faxes, invoicing, etc. It could work, but it would change the way people accept the agent…force more onto the internet and make insurance a commodity.
It will happen someday, but the fallout will be tough.
Absolutely, Mike and we would probably be able to make much more money charging by the hour or any part thereof.
As a retail agent in a small town, I find it absurd that agents are being held out to be the bad guys. We did NOT create this illegal, criminal mess, but only the ego, money hungry publicly-traded Brokers (Marsh, AON, etc) have caused a stir among the honest hard-working agents throughout the insurance industry.
The individuals involved in the bid-rigging, etc should be criminally prosecuted and serve time. We have no-place in our industry for those types of people. Unfortunately, the bad apples in our industry are ruining it for all the good people within our respectable industry.
Contingency income is not a guarantee and for those who count on it are not to smart of business people. Reward for production, profitability and growth are no different than any other sales organization throughout the world.
No one said that it would be easy. And the public is not really sure now how we get paid. Especially the smaller consumer of which there are many more than the huge accounts. Many agents now charge for services like certs and auto ID cards so why not bring it all into the open and keep the government out of the business?
Since Mr. Spitzer’s office approved of Marsh gobbling up the competition, it appears that we have more of a corrupt regulatory environment than brokers and companies.
Yes, Marsh and others involved in “price fixing” should be genuinely punished, but it looks like Spitzer should “enjoy” some punishment as well.
What I think is REALLY humorous is that now we have a US Senate who cannot figure out that campaign finance abuse is wrong trying to fix a problem that is miniscle by comparison!!
If you start charging a fee, most consumers are just going to go online and purchase insurance. Given the fact that most consumers usually are uneducated about insurance they will not feel as though paying for an agent will be worth it. Plus most insurance companies are going to have no way to convince agents to place business with them. To most people buying a home is a bigger deal than purchasing insurance, and even now people are starting to circumvent the real estate agent and buy online. Look at all of the websites popping up, forsalebyowner.com fsbo.com etc.
would somebody just payoff these politicians and lawyers and get this over with. Whose idea was it not to include them in in the first place?
Consolidation leads to lack of competitions leads to monopolistic behavior, price gouging – I’m talking about St Paul/Travelers/USF&G/Aetna/Royal & Sunalliance/Atlantic Mutual Commercial – SOON TO BE SAFECO/AMERICAN STATES(?), and Commercial Union/General Accident/Atlantic Mutual Inland Marine or Liberty Mutual/Peerless just to name a few. (I’m sure I’m forgetting loads.)
When the leadership of the entire insurance industry is reduced to a few families and a cozy little “commission” of robber-barons, we need to be concerned, it’s all about status & legacy for a few rich men. One cannot conclude that reducing competition and choice is beneficial to any consumer.
And just think, 10 years ago we were worried about banks in insurance!
PS. ANY DIRT ON THE ST PAUL/TRAVELERS – SAFECO MERGER?
I would like to hear a discussion between Attorney General Spitzer and Sen Fitsgerald on how todays commercial insurance is bought and sold, regulated and controlled by agents and brokers. And how the fortune 500 companies are abused and subjected to unscrupulous and devious metheods by the brokers.
I think Jack makes a good point as to why you need a good agent. If he has a problem with claims, look to your agent not your Insurance Company. Of course the Att Gen and the good Senator probably don’t understand this either.
Once again we have an argument for fee for service since if we must assist the insured in claims handling, do we get anything for it. And what about all the advice we give throughout the year?
AMEN!
Lets hope its true and the playing field will be level.
I agree with Insurance Dude. Ever since the “Financial Guys” got involved with the Insurance Industry it has gone down hill. As long as they make millions going from company to company arranging mergers and acquisitions we will all suffer from lack of markets and competition. We need insurance to be stable and competitive without all the swings in pricing and profitability. I’ll take a Selective Insurance Company over a St. Paul/etc etc etc any day.
“Methinks thou protest too much.” – Shakespeare.
Historically speaking, in times of economic need, it is always the salesmen and lawyers who find themselves outside the moral circles of the producers and the consumers of our societies. In the past their assets were seized and their lives taken.
I take it that by the way they ride rough-shod over other’s financial interests in today’s society, they are betting that human nature has changed.
Good luck with that.
The problem is not the thousands of smaller independant agents. We can hardly control our children much less large segments of insurance industry practices. Its the 25+ largest brokers and their errogant relations with insurance companies willing to contrive to win.
Jim Howse
When I first started in insurance , I did not charge any fees what so ever to the client. After speaking with many agents and friends in the business, I realized that I should start. All I can say is that I was able to afford an additional office staffer due to the additional income. Better service for the clients at a small fee to each one.
I have plenty proof that fraudulent medical records from different medical facilities were submitted at my trial. I can prove that my own attorney allowed expert witnesses to lie as well. I have had to appeal my case on my own because of the circus the attorneys created. To add insult to injury, these insurance companies have fraudulently charged me for attorney fees. With so many people obstructing justice here, and after being told that they can not investigate because the records were from six years ago, what else is there, but to warn the public. My situation is far from isolated here!!!