Amazing article, equally amazing comments. I agree with almost all of them, Umpire says Juries should not decide the damages or Punitive Damages, I agree. Juries are not qualified to do so.
Steve M – mentioned the companies bottomline not hurting. When I smoked (I quit in 1984) cigarettes were high if they were 75 cents a pack. Today, I see people routinely paying $4.00 or more per pack! This is where the tobacco companies put the loss. Additionally, one reason no legislator makes a move to make cigarettes illegal is that the Federal and State Governments hide some of their Tax increases in the cost of a pack of cigarettes. They do not want to let go of the Golden Goose.
Lastly, Lawyers!. The root of all torts. Law Schools graduate more everyday. They have to do something.
Individual responsibility went the way of meaningful grades in schools. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings about failing in school or making stupid decisions – smoking, drinking, drugs, & overeating.
How many of you look at the school “tests” and homework. Howe many times have we heard of someone having 4, 5, or 6 arrests for DWI/DUI before they manage to kill an innocent person, but usually walk away themselves, etc. And now some people are trying to blame McDonald’s etc. for holding a gun to their head and making them eat go to the drive through, buy a supersize meal, and eat it. Seriously, you would think this is the way they got to be plus++++ size.
We ahve some states where is against state law to fail a student in any grade, or was until the No Child Left Behind act. Now the schools just teach to the test and Johnny still can’t read, add, or write, but he can sure say “do you want to supersize that meal?” Maybe those are the employees holding guns to the head of those drivers….
And we wonder why we have ethics problems in business, after all, no one is responsible for their actions…
All tobacco lawsuit money should go to a fund for a “butt bounty”. The public can then collect cigarette butts ( the only legal form of litter in the USA) and turn them in for cash (like the bottle refunds). This would clean up our nation and return the money to the citizens. Where are all of the billions ? In the pockets of legislators and “experts”. Obstensibly the billions go towards “anti-smoking” efforts and education. What a sham!
What really bugs me is that while the dangers of cigarette smoking have been known, documented, and circulated for years, people who chose to partake in the habit (in other words, wilfully ignored the evidence) are still able to collect huge awards from a system that seems to ignore personal accountability!
It’s no different than the people that have tried to sue McDonalds because a Big Mac mysteriously transformed into a big butt!
In the end, it’s the consumer who pays these awards in the form of higher prices. And people wonder why we need to reform our legal system?
One of the broken parts of the legal system is juries. We are all too busy to serve so we get justice administered by those with the least accountability themselves. Think about it the next time you get your jury summons.
PS They were calling cigarettes “coffin nails” when I took my first puffs in 1957.
Is this not a symptom of allowing Juries to decide on the level of damages? Tort reform should start by taking this aspect out of the hands of the Jury. The Jury should just decide whether the defendant is guilty and/or liable for the injury or damages claimed. The Judge or Justices should calculate the appropiate level of damages based on earnings, suffering and dependants and should, also, decide whether a fine, and how much, should be imposed. This would bring an end to the “lottery” winning awards that fuel the litiguous frenzy that costs businesses and individuals billions. It would, also, slim down the huge army of the legal profession.
Look, while I for one can appreciate the need for tort reform, this matter really does not have anything to do with same.
The plaintiff hereto was a smoker for over 35 years. When she began smoking she was unaware of the specific harms associated with smoking cigarettes. However, the cigarette manufactures were quite aware of the fatal effects of smoking and went as far as to conceal those harmful and fatal effects.
In this day and age, most if not all, Americans are aware of the harmful effects of smoking due to information laws and the general media. Unfortunately, most of this information was not readily available decades ago. Hence, it is conceivable that the plaintiff in this matter was truly unaware of the specific damage that smoking cigarettes could cause in the long run.
Keep in mind that this matter is not about a run-away jury or the judicial system, this matter concerns a negligent corporation and a system which protects those rich corporations and allow them to continue to prosper.
Blame the victimizer not the victim.
PS. Although I do not like to end of a negative thought, RRR (last comment) is utterly ridiculous for comparing this matter with the McDonald’s case.
The real shame is that the “tobacco settlement” allows tobacco companies to continue to sell an obviously dangerous product. It’s all about money; it’s not a health issue; it’s not a legal issue nor is it about anyone getting “justice”. As long as the tobacco companies can stay in business and as long as individuals can successfully sue, this will go on. It’s business as usual. Even more to the point, since the settlement money comes from current cigarette sales, punitive damages will have no dampening affect on their bottomline; indeed the tobacco companies continue to profit!
Rarely have I ever viewed comments on these formats that I agreed with what all the people who reponded said. Here we all agree, but why doesn’t the system change. What ever happened for individuals taking responsibility for their own actions.
All who’ve commented, and all who agree, should use this as cocktail party conversation, so that ANYONE that gets no such a jury will not continue these mistakes.
Put Punitive Damages into a PUBLIC fund — all of them, all of that money. Lawyers don’t get rich on them. Damaged people get their damages only. Then if the REASON for the Punitive Damages doesn’t stop, then apply them AGAIN, without the trial (because we’ve ALREADY decided the punishment was deserved!).
In this case, tobacco companies shouldn’t pay Punitive Damages in the first place… until we decide, as a society, to make it illegal to sell cigarettes, alcohol, etc. But we don’t have the conviction of our comments to DO that, now do we?
I beg to differ. This woman smoked for 35 years, and was awarded money in 1999. Probably originally sued somewhere around 96 or 97. 96 – 35 years = 1961. While I agree that in 1961 most people were unaware of the dangers of smoking, byt he time I started smoking in 1974 she would have been at about year 13 of 35 (I quit in 1984 – because of the potential dangers)EVERY pack of Cigarettes had a warning label and EVERYONE knew about the dangers of smoking. I would bet that includes this woman. Some chose to ignore the warnings. This case has EVERYTHING to do with tort reform and runaway lawyers, as well as personal choice and accountability for the choices you make.
I totally agree with Gregg’s comments. Whilst at senior school, in the early 70’s, we were bombarded with lectures and films on the harmful effects of smoking. It didn’t stop many of us from smoking, myself included (except that I switched from cigarettes to cigars as they were regarded as less harmfull- which is still to be determined). However, to claim that one was unaware of the dangers does rather beggar belief.
A slightly more reasonable excuse could be that one was so addicted that you couldn’t stop. Nicotine’s addictive qualities are very high and range somewhere between that of heroin and crack cocaine.
My mother died of lung cancer 2 yrs ago. She smoke for 30+ years before stopping. She never sued and we didn’t either. She accepted the fact that she smoked for all those years.
They set up that fund for the states who sued big tobacco to recoup their expenses for treating smokers. No one should have the right to sue these guys anymore. People should know the dangers of smoking if you don’t they deserve to die. Smoking/nicotine addiction can be treated if they want to stop. It’s their own choose.
This woman had a few decades to make the decision to stop smoking, and didn’t want to do so.
Her decision to smoke should have barred her from recovering against the tobacco company. People have known for a LONG TIME that smoking can cause some serious and potentially deadly diseases.
OK so she hits the jackpot. Now how about the medical insurance companies finally waking up and charging them smokers a higher rate so those of us who actually take care of ourselves pay our fair share.
It’s stupid decisions like this that makes it harder for businesses to continue. If we choose to smoke, drink hot coffee or eat fast fatty foods, who’s fault is that?
We have got to quit awarding these ridiculous awards and take responibility of ourselves.
Now all we can do is sit back and watch the line form for all the smokers who think that they were made to smoke for 20 – 30 years decide now that oops! I was made to do this, where’s a good attorney when you need one.
I don’t think the attorneys or the responsible smokers are to blame it’s those few free loaders that we have to blame.
Surely the world does not expect me to be responsible for myself do they? Every problem or desease I have is always someone elses fault which entitles me to sue them and get buckets of money. How many times have I read about a person stop smoking cigeretts and gets some desease. For that reason I am not going to stop. That way I want get that desease. Soemone please explane to me the defination of “premature death”? How do you know it was premature since death is certain at some time and who can predict the date a given person will die? We have life expactency tables which only say out of X number of people the average age they lived was Y, yet some lived past Y and some did not make Y. In all probability no one actually died on Y. It is appointed to man once to die and then the judgement. Everyone is going to do it sooner or later and nothing they can do can prevent it.
As a smoker, I was relieved to read the comments of other smokers, who agree that we’ve known for many years the dangers of smoking and consider it wrong to sue for the choice we made.
What’s next? Alcoholics suing manufacturers of alcohol for making them drink and causing cirrhosis of the liver?
Amazing article, equally amazing comments. I agree with almost all of them, Umpire says Juries should not decide the damages or Punitive Damages, I agree. Juries are not qualified to do so.
Steve M – mentioned the companies bottomline not hurting. When I smoked (I quit in 1984) cigarettes were high if they were 75 cents a pack. Today, I see people routinely paying $4.00 or more per pack! This is where the tobacco companies put the loss. Additionally, one reason no legislator makes a move to make cigarettes illegal is that the Federal and State Governments hide some of their Tax increases in the cost of a pack of cigarettes. They do not want to let go of the Golden Goose.
Lastly, Lawyers!. The root of all torts. Law Schools graduate more everyday. They have to do something.
Individual responsibility went the way of meaningful grades in schools. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings about failing in school or making stupid decisions – smoking, drinking, drugs, & overeating.
How many of you look at the school “tests” and homework. Howe many times have we heard of someone having 4, 5, or 6 arrests for DWI/DUI before they manage to kill an innocent person, but usually walk away themselves, etc. And now some people are trying to blame McDonald’s etc. for holding a gun to their head and making them eat go to the drive through, buy a supersize meal, and eat it. Seriously, you would think this is the way they got to be plus++++ size.
We ahve some states where is against state law to fail a student in any grade, or was until the No Child Left Behind act. Now the schools just teach to the test and Johnny still can’t read, add, or write, but he can sure say “do you want to supersize that meal?” Maybe those are the employees holding guns to the head of those drivers….
And we wonder why we have ethics problems in business, after all, no one is responsible for their actions…
Food for thought
Smoke cigarettes,get rich! this lady probably loved the movie Dumb and Dumber
All tobacco lawsuit money should go to a fund for a “butt bounty”. The public can then collect cigarette butts ( the only legal form of litter in the USA) and turn them in for cash (like the bottle refunds). This would clean up our nation and return the money to the citizens. Where are all of the billions ? In the pockets of legislators and “experts”. Obstensibly the billions go towards “anti-smoking” efforts and education. What a sham!
What really bugs me is that while the dangers of cigarette smoking have been known, documented, and circulated for years, people who chose to partake in the habit (in other words, wilfully ignored the evidence) are still able to collect huge awards from a system that seems to ignore personal accountability!
It’s no different than the people that have tried to sue McDonalds because a Big Mac mysteriously transformed into a big butt!
In the end, it’s the consumer who pays these awards in the form of higher prices. And people wonder why we need to reform our legal system?
One of the broken parts of the legal system is juries. We are all too busy to serve so we get justice administered by those with the least accountability themselves. Think about it the next time you get your jury summons.
PS They were calling cigarettes “coffin nails” when I took my first puffs in 1957.
Is this stupid or what? I think the next time I write a letter to someone & don’t get a satisfactory answer, I will sue the pen/pencil company!!
Is this not a symptom of allowing Juries to decide on the level of damages? Tort reform should start by taking this aspect out of the hands of the Jury. The Jury should just decide whether the defendant is guilty and/or liable for the injury or damages claimed. The Judge or Justices should calculate the appropiate level of damages based on earnings, suffering and dependants and should, also, decide whether a fine, and how much, should be imposed. This would bring an end to the “lottery” winning awards that fuel the litiguous frenzy that costs businesses and individuals billions. It would, also, slim down the huge army of the legal profession.
Look, while I for one can appreciate the need for tort reform, this matter really does not have anything to do with same.
The plaintiff hereto was a smoker for over 35 years. When she began smoking she was unaware of the specific harms associated with smoking cigarettes. However, the cigarette manufactures were quite aware of the fatal effects of smoking and went as far as to conceal those harmful and fatal effects.
In this day and age, most if not all, Americans are aware of the harmful effects of smoking due to information laws and the general media. Unfortunately, most of this information was not readily available decades ago. Hence, it is conceivable that the plaintiff in this matter was truly unaware of the specific damage that smoking cigarettes could cause in the long run.
Keep in mind that this matter is not about a run-away jury or the judicial system, this matter concerns a negligent corporation and a system which protects those rich corporations and allow them to continue to prosper.
Blame the victimizer not the victim.
PS. Although I do not like to end of a negative thought, RRR (last comment) is utterly ridiculous for comparing this matter with the McDonald’s case.
The real shame is that the “tobacco settlement” allows tobacco companies to continue to sell an obviously dangerous product. It’s all about money; it’s not a health issue; it’s not a legal issue nor is it about anyone getting “justice”. As long as the tobacco companies can stay in business and as long as individuals can successfully sue, this will go on. It’s business as usual. Even more to the point, since the settlement money comes from current cigarette sales, punitive damages will have no dampening affect on their bottomline; indeed the tobacco companies continue to profit!
CARS, GUNS AND ALCOHOL ARE ALL DANGEROUS. USERS ASSUME THE RISK
Rarely have I ever viewed comments on these formats that I agreed with what all the people who reponded said. Here we all agree, but why doesn’t the system change. What ever happened for individuals taking responsibility for their own actions.
Hey Steve-
You left out wives and girlfriends !!!!
All who’ve commented, and all who agree, should use this as cocktail party conversation, so that ANYONE that gets no such a jury will not continue these mistakes.
Put Punitive Damages into a PUBLIC fund — all of them, all of that money. Lawyers don’t get rich on them. Damaged people get their damages only. Then if the REASON for the Punitive Damages doesn’t stop, then apply them AGAIN, without the trial (because we’ve ALREADY decided the punishment was deserved!).
In this case, tobacco companies shouldn’t pay Punitive Damages in the first place… until we decide, as a society, to make it illegal to sell cigarettes, alcohol, etc. But we don’t have the conviction of our comments to DO that, now do we?
Winston,
I beg to differ. This woman smoked for 35 years, and was awarded money in 1999. Probably originally sued somewhere around 96 or 97. 96 – 35 years = 1961. While I agree that in 1961 most people were unaware of the dangers of smoking, byt he time I started smoking in 1974 she would have been at about year 13 of 35 (I quit in 1984 – because of the potential dangers)EVERY pack of Cigarettes had a warning label and EVERYONE knew about the dangers of smoking. I would bet that includes this woman. Some chose to ignore the warnings. This case has EVERYTHING to do with tort reform and runaway lawyers, as well as personal choice and accountability for the choices you make.
I totally agree with Gregg’s comments. Whilst at senior school, in the early 70’s, we were bombarded with lectures and films on the harmful effects of smoking. It didn’t stop many of us from smoking, myself included (except that I switched from cigarettes to cigars as they were regarded as less harmfull- which is still to be determined). However, to claim that one was unaware of the dangers does rather beggar belief.
A slightly more reasonable excuse could be that one was so addicted that you couldn’t stop. Nicotine’s addictive qualities are very high and range somewhere between that of heroin and crack cocaine.
My mother died of lung cancer 2 yrs ago. She smoke for 30+ years before stopping. She never sued and we didn’t either. She accepted the fact that she smoked for all those years.
They set up that fund for the states who sued big tobacco to recoup their expenses for treating smokers. No one should have the right to sue these guys anymore. People should know the dangers of smoking if you don’t they deserve to die. Smoking/nicotine addiction can be treated if they want to stop. It’s their own choose.
This woman had a few decades to make the decision to stop smoking, and didn’t want to do so.
Her decision to smoke should have barred her from recovering against the tobacco company. People have known for a LONG TIME that smoking can cause some serious and potentially deadly diseases.
OK so she hits the jackpot. Now how about the medical insurance companies finally waking up and charging them smokers a higher rate so those of us who actually take care of ourselves pay our fair share.
It’s stupid decisions like this that makes it harder for businesses to continue. If we choose to smoke, drink hot coffee or eat fast fatty foods, who’s fault is that?
We have got to quit awarding these ridiculous awards and take responibility of ourselves.
Now all we can do is sit back and watch the line form for all the smokers who think that they were made to smoke for 20 – 30 years decide now that oops! I was made to do this, where’s a good attorney when you need one.
I don’t think the attorneys or the responsible smokers are to blame it’s those few free loaders that we have to blame.
Surely the world does not expect me to be responsible for myself do they? Every problem or desease I have is always someone elses fault which entitles me to sue them and get buckets of money. How many times have I read about a person stop smoking cigeretts and gets some desease. For that reason I am not going to stop. That way I want get that desease. Soemone please explane to me the defination of “premature death”? How do you know it was premature since death is certain at some time and who can predict the date a given person will die? We have life expactency tables which only say out of X number of people the average age they lived was Y, yet some lived past Y and some did not make Y. In all probability no one actually died on Y. It is appointed to man once to die and then the judgement. Everyone is going to do it sooner or later and nothing they can do can prevent it.
As a smoker, I was relieved to read the comments of other smokers, who agree that we’ve known for many years the dangers of smoking and consider it wrong to sue for the choice we made.
What’s next? Alcoholics suing manufacturers of alcohol for making them drink and causing cirrhosis of the liver?
Reform is crucial!