Of course the \”uninsured\” are not going to want to fork out money for insurance when they know they can receive treatment for free at the taxpayers expense. Just look at the number of \”unisured\” people in Louisiana and Missippi from hurricane Katrina. They did not purchase flood insurance. The taxpayers are still paying that bill.
It\’s easy to feel superior when you\’re covered by group health and not subject to preexisting conditions. Try getting solo health coverage if you\’re self employed and have ANY medical problems. It\’s time for America to take the right move which is health care as a basic right of citizenship. We all pay, anyway.
i suggest that there be a national sales tax to pay for national care. yes, more tax, but how else to pay for it? what a shame it is that a wealthy country of ours with this patchwork care system. what does a person do who has lost their coverage and now they may have a preexisting condition and can\’t afford private coverage. ins co. wouldn\’t cover them anyway. i guess they get poor and try medicaid, and now i pay for them.
I say do-away with ALL health insurance, just pay the Dr and Hospitals directly.
Why do we blame the health insurance for not wanting to pay $100 per asprin, $900 per day for a room, $100,000 for bypass surgery, when the people themselved dont want to pay monthly premiums? Let the gov;t pay ALL the Drs & hospitals on the same reimbursement just like they do for medicare. It shouldnt cost $100,000 plus for a bypass here and only $11,000 in India. The medical care looks to be just as good. No I dont want to fly to India either, for 1/10th we may be doing it. I
AM an insurance agent and i get tired of people complaining the Companies charged too much, they dont pay enough, they dont cover everthing, and They are going up again!! Look at the costs of what they have to pay,… there\’s a reason Doctors wear a mask!!!
The American health care is the best in the world. Indian health care is pretty good in comparison to other third world nations but its quality is poor and there is no accountability there.
Incompetant doctors get away with murder. Proper procedure is often ignored by the undertrained. Just ask my mother who had two healthy babies die as a result of doctor incompetence. The Indian health care system is not good.
There are probably several reasons why our system is more expensive. One might be the health care technology is far better than what you will find there. Another is that the doctors are more highly trained. Yet another is that lawsuits over there are rare.
There are plus points to having a socialized health care system. But we shouldn\’t be willing to trade in quality for price. My two dead brothers could attest to that.
You have some valid points especially about the lawsuits. However Im curious were there any law suits with the 2 dead babies?
I do disagree that American is the best in the world, I do believe it is one of the best, however i feel there are several countries just as good or better, with highly trained Doctors. All for about 1/10 the price for the same procedure in america.
I definately agree I would not trade quality for price, however I do not believe in many instances they quality would be just as good if not better.
I dont know about Dr accountability in the other countries, but as you have shown in your examples above, accoutability is lacking here as well.
The Medical Assocation does a poor job in policing their own members.
Of course now, almost 30 years later, it seems utterly foolish not to press charges of gross negligence. But far too late obviously.
The vast majority of services offered in India are provided by the government. The expectation there is that the government is responsible for almost everything. Historically the people there have been extremely pro-labor. It is extremely difficult to fire any government employee. In fact in most cases the supervisor has to prove beyond a resonable doubt that the a fired employee is incompetent. If there is even a little doubt the firing is overturned. So if a person is the victim of a grossly negligent or undertrained doctor, the legal system there is such that the doctor in question will not be fired unless he has been consistently horrible and negligent (resulting in many deaths).
The result is that accountability is stunted and the negligent continue with their duties without much more than a slap on the wrist. People sometimes wonder why there is so much corruption over there. I don\’t — the reason is very evident. No lawsuits and lower standards = less cost.
You are probably accurate in asserting that there may be much cheaper health care systems in other countries with comparable quality as the US but such systems likely involve a heavily socialized healthcare system. Philosophy of the US since its very foundation is a laissez faire approach to government. Legendaries such as Thomas Jefferson adamently believed in a small central government with restricted interference in the affairs of the nation\’s citizens. Such a belief very much resembles the modern day Libertarian Party–low taxes, small central government, laissez-faire economic system, and a limited role in the day to day affairs of Americans. I believe that in addition to Libertarians, very many conservatives similarly feel that the role of government is to govern and defend the nation–not to provide a socialized welfare system by, in their eyes, stealing money from hard working people and distributing it out to the poorer elements of society. If there is a way to reduce the cost of healthcare without implementing a socialized system there would likely be far less opposition to expanding health care coverage in the US.
I have another comment regarding your initial post which is making the argument that all health insurance should be done away with.
As an insurance agent I\’m sure you realize that insurance serves a major purpose for society in that pools our collective risk so that the individual costs can be more manageable. To simply take away health insurance will not immediately lead to a 90% decrease in health care costs; or for that matter lead to any apparent decrease in cost at all. However what it would do is take away the ability to pay for health care for 99% of the people in this country. I don\’t think there are many people that have $100,000 stowed away in a bank account that they are reserving for when they get into a serious accident and are in the hospital for a week. Otherwise such a move would wipe out most people\’s retirement savings or send more people into very deep debt. Taking away health insurance without an immediate replacement would leave most people unwilling to spend their money on goods so that they can bolster their savings. The by product of that consumer behavior would be a sharp dip in spending that would have major negative consequences on the economy across the board. If the government is to have the funds to pay for all our health care it will have to dramatically reshape its fiscal policy. Current spending levels and priorities do not leave much room for a government funded health insurance system.
I don\’t believe that there is one reason why health care is so expensive. It is a complicated issue that will likely involve a series of reforms.
hey you guys, look around, we have a social system already.Its called medicare, medicaid,and the emergency room. your are not going to turn back the clock! the middleclass is being priced out of the market for affordable care. private enterprise no longer has a solution for rising healthcare cost. in a few years, family cost will be $2000.00 a month with a $10,000 per ind. ded. unless you work for the government. since we found a $1,000,000,000 for a war. surley we can take care of our own.
I agree Indian, there is no one reason for the inflated health care cost, it is
complicated. And I dont advocate doing away with the heath care insurance. I was just pointing out that so many people complain about the high cost of health Insurance but never look at the high cost of health care. I certainly dont know the answer, atwood is correct that we already have a semi-socialized medicine with medicare and medicade. With the internal limits payable with medicare and medicade (DRGs) they have put a cap to spiraling health care costs at least on their end. However I believe that just causes yours and my bills to be higher to help recoup losses for medicare and medicade. I like the notion of requiring all people to carry a minimal heath coverage policy, when could be payable from their social security withholdings from each paycheck. Of course mandatory auto insurance has been a failure as well, so Im not sure how this could be enforced either.
paying for healthcare through payroll taxes is not going to work due to the cash only underground economy. that is why i recommend sales taxes. everyone pays regardless of payroll. how did we ever let ourselves get into this mess?in a few years the monthly family prem. will be over a thousand dollars a month with deductables over $10,000. hopefully i\’ll be on medicare by then.
Of course the \”uninsured\” are not going to want to fork out money for insurance when they know they can receive treatment for free at the taxpayers expense. Just look at the number of \”unisured\” people in Louisiana and Missippi from hurricane Katrina. They did not purchase flood insurance. The taxpayers are still paying that bill.
It\’s easy to feel superior when you\’re covered by group health and not subject to preexisting conditions. Try getting solo health coverage if you\’re self employed and have ANY medical problems. It\’s time for America to take the right move which is health care as a basic right of citizenship. We all pay, anyway.
i suggest that there be a national sales tax to pay for national care. yes, more tax, but how else to pay for it? what a shame it is that a wealthy country of ours with this patchwork care system. what does a person do who has lost their coverage and now they may have a preexisting condition and can\’t afford private coverage. ins co. wouldn\’t cover them anyway. i guess they get poor and try medicaid, and now i pay for them.
I say do-away with ALL health insurance, just pay the Dr and Hospitals directly.
Why do we blame the health insurance for not wanting to pay $100 per asprin, $900 per day for a room, $100,000 for bypass surgery, when the people themselved dont want to pay monthly premiums? Let the gov;t pay ALL the Drs & hospitals on the same reimbursement just like they do for medicare. It shouldnt cost $100,000 plus for a bypass here and only $11,000 in India. The medical care looks to be just as good. No I dont want to fly to India either, for 1/10th we may be doing it. I
AM an insurance agent and i get tired of people complaining the Companies charged too much, they dont pay enough, they dont cover everthing, and They are going up again!! Look at the costs of what they have to pay,… there\’s a reason Doctors wear a mask!!!
The American health care is the best in the world. Indian health care is pretty good in comparison to other third world nations but its quality is poor and there is no accountability there.
Incompetant doctors get away with murder. Proper procedure is often ignored by the undertrained. Just ask my mother who had two healthy babies die as a result of doctor incompetence. The Indian health care system is not good.
There are probably several reasons why our system is more expensive. One might be the health care technology is far better than what you will find there. Another is that the doctors are more highly trained. Yet another is that lawsuits over there are rare.
There are plus points to having a socialized health care system. But we shouldn\’t be willing to trade in quality for price. My two dead brothers could attest to that.
You have some valid points especially about the lawsuits. However Im curious were there any law suits with the 2 dead babies?
I do disagree that American is the best in the world, I do believe it is one of the best, however i feel there are several countries just as good or better, with highly trained Doctors. All for about 1/10 the price for the same procedure in america.
I definately agree I would not trade quality for price, however I do not believe in many instances they quality would be just as good if not better.
I dont know about Dr accountability in the other countries, but as you have shown in your examples above, accoutability is lacking here as well.
The Medical Assocation does a poor job in policing their own members.
No there was no lawsuit filed.
Of course now, almost 30 years later, it seems utterly foolish not to press charges of gross negligence. But far too late obviously.
The vast majority of services offered in India are provided by the government. The expectation there is that the government is responsible for almost everything. Historically the people there have been extremely pro-labor. It is extremely difficult to fire any government employee. In fact in most cases the supervisor has to prove beyond a resonable doubt that the a fired employee is incompetent. If there is even a little doubt the firing is overturned. So if a person is the victim of a grossly negligent or undertrained doctor, the legal system there is such that the doctor in question will not be fired unless he has been consistently horrible and negligent (resulting in many deaths).
The result is that accountability is stunted and the negligent continue with their duties without much more than a slap on the wrist. People sometimes wonder why there is so much corruption over there. I don\’t — the reason is very evident. No lawsuits and lower standards = less cost.
You are probably accurate in asserting that there may be much cheaper health care systems in other countries with comparable quality as the US but such systems likely involve a heavily socialized healthcare system. Philosophy of the US since its very foundation is a laissez faire approach to government. Legendaries such as Thomas Jefferson adamently believed in a small central government with restricted interference in the affairs of the nation\’s citizens. Such a belief very much resembles the modern day Libertarian Party–low taxes, small central government, laissez-faire economic system, and a limited role in the day to day affairs of Americans. I believe that in addition to Libertarians, very many conservatives similarly feel that the role of government is to govern and defend the nation–not to provide a socialized welfare system by, in their eyes, stealing money from hard working people and distributing it out to the poorer elements of society. If there is a way to reduce the cost of healthcare without implementing a socialized system there would likely be far less opposition to expanding health care coverage in the US.
I have another comment regarding your initial post which is making the argument that all health insurance should be done away with.
As an insurance agent I\’m sure you realize that insurance serves a major purpose for society in that pools our collective risk so that the individual costs can be more manageable. To simply take away health insurance will not immediately lead to a 90% decrease in health care costs; or for that matter lead to any apparent decrease in cost at all. However what it would do is take away the ability to pay for health care for 99% of the people in this country. I don\’t think there are many people that have $100,000 stowed away in a bank account that they are reserving for when they get into a serious accident and are in the hospital for a week. Otherwise such a move would wipe out most people\’s retirement savings or send more people into very deep debt. Taking away health insurance without an immediate replacement would leave most people unwilling to spend their money on goods so that they can bolster their savings. The by product of that consumer behavior would be a sharp dip in spending that would have major negative consequences on the economy across the board. If the government is to have the funds to pay for all our health care it will have to dramatically reshape its fiscal policy. Current spending levels and priorities do not leave much room for a government funded health insurance system.
I don\’t believe that there is one reason why health care is so expensive. It is a complicated issue that will likely involve a series of reforms.
hey you guys, look around, we have a social system already.Its called medicare, medicaid,and the emergency room. your are not going to turn back the clock! the middleclass is being priced out of the market for affordable care. private enterprise no longer has a solution for rising healthcare cost. in a few years, family cost will be $2000.00 a month with a $10,000 per ind. ded. unless you work for the government. since we found a $1,000,000,000 for a war. surley we can take care of our own.
i want to correct myself, its $1,000,000,000,000\”trillion\”.
I agree Indian, there is no one reason for the inflated health care cost, it is
complicated. And I dont advocate doing away with the heath care insurance. I was just pointing out that so many people complain about the high cost of health Insurance but never look at the high cost of health care. I certainly dont know the answer, atwood is correct that we already have a semi-socialized medicine with medicare and medicade. With the internal limits payable with medicare and medicade (DRGs) they have put a cap to spiraling health care costs at least on their end. However I believe that just causes yours and my bills to be higher to help recoup losses for medicare and medicade. I like the notion of requiring all people to carry a minimal heath coverage policy, when could be payable from their social security withholdings from each paycheck. Of course mandatory auto insurance has been a failure as well, so Im not sure how this could be enforced either.
paying for healthcare through payroll taxes is not going to work due to the cash only underground economy. that is why i recommend sales taxes. everyone pays regardless of payroll. how did we ever let ourselves get into this mess?in a few years the monthly family prem. will be over a thousand dollars a month with deductables over $10,000. hopefully i\’ll be on medicare by then.