there will be a lot of angry comments on here from people who don\’t bother to read this article carefully. 2 people from the same firm are giving conflicting stories. The one who is speaking against State Farm did not have any first hand knowledge of what transpired.
However, the article seems to contradict itself on many points.
It will be interesting to see what conclusions people draw from this article. I am sure they will only pay attention to the parts of the article that support their thoughts.
You guys need to stop apologizing for this company. Anyone not convinced SF tried to alter these reports to pay out less money is going out of their way to deny the obvious. Ask yourself if you are capable of an independent analysis of the facts or if you will say anything to deny an insurance co engaged in unethical behavior. Insurance is the only industry where the company doing the selling never wants you to use their services. The mentality is clearly \’pay us the premiums and then leave us alone.\’ Disgusting.
Hey, Donnie, are you married to Rosie? I halfway expected your next paragraph to read ‘George Bush conspired with State Farm to deny coverages to the wretched soles who could least afford to lose everything they had. We need a democratic congress investigation and impeachment of Bush as he is responsible. He is the devil sent to destroy us all’.
Please respond Rosie! We are waiting on pins and needles for your anti-Bush tirade.
C\’mon any of you yahoos ever held an executive level claims management position? Ever sat in a a strategy meeting or reviewed claims for bad faith handling. Or simply audited claim files to see how inept most adjusters are? Or have you spent your career as a low level adjuster feeding off the pond-scum? Do you think this is not true? It\’s not about being fair and equitable to policyholders, it\’a about winning. Why are there so many bad faith claims out there. Most of these don\’t make headlines the Ins. Co.\’s just cash-out and settle once they realize they\’re wrong…then they blame the poor overworked, undertrained and unsupervised adjusters!
I don\’t know about other states but here in the great state of Florida licensed agents are required to take a 3 hour course in ethics every two years in order to keep our licenses. I think the companies need to have ethic required courses as well.
I am not supporting the notion that every claim should be paid but I think that SF and others tried to get away with paying as little as possible or nothing at all. Also, experienced first hand the length of time from when claims were adjusted to the time it took to receive the checks. Too long!
Are you guys reading the same article I\’m reading? I\’ve never worked in claims, so I don\’t have any baggage to bring, but just by reading the article, it sounds to me like SF made two very reasonable requests of the engineering firm:
1. use better wording to support your report\’s conclusions, and
2. take steps to make sure that the wind damage isn\’t overestimated.
The fact that the engineering firm\’s VP flew off the handle and accused SF of trying to get them to change their conclusions doesn\’t mean there\’s any truth to his accusations.
It seems to me that the lawyers know there\’s no smoking gun here, otherwise they\’d be making their case in court instead of in the press.
I do see that one of the engineering firm\’s employees was speaking from second hand knowledge, but it doesn\’t sound like the two are giving conflicting stories. Could you please point out the conflict between the two non-SF employees for me?
Thanks.
I don\’t think the SF bashers READ the article. Or, as I posted earlier, they will choose to use only the information which HELPS their cause rather than refutes their cause.
I agree with your post. I think it is very well written. That doesn\’t happen a lot around here. ;)
Of course, the SF bashers aren\’t going to believe you are impartial. They will tell you that you obviously work for SF and are a moron. I say if you \”work\” for State Farm, tell them to pony up with your paycheck!
It is sad, but I think most of the posters on here are not going to understand one word of what you said… Next time you should \”dumb\” it down quite a bit.
Sure. I read the story a couple of times before I posted that response. I like to make sure I am accurate.
Basically, I pulled out a few excerpts for you:
\”The e-mails between Forensic president and CEO Robert Kochan and Randy Down, the firm\’s vice president of engineering services, outline complaints…
Kochan says the firm will continue working with State Farm, but discusses needing to \”redo the wording\’\’ of a report after a discussion with King \”such that the conclusions are better supported.\’\’
Kochan, in an interview, said plaintiffs\’ attorneys are taking the e-mails out of context. King \”just felt like we weren\’t doing a technically accurate job,\’\’ but she wasn\’t pressuring Forensic to change conclusions so that claims could be denied, Kochan said.
Down, who has since left Forensic and started his own engineering company, said in an interview that he was relying on \”secondhand\’\’ information about State Farm\’s complaints and wasn\’t directly involved in Forensic\’s work on Katrina claims. He said the threat to fire the firm came \”out of the blue.\’\’\”
So, Kochan (president and CEO) says King was not pressuring the firm to CHANGE results, but rather re-word them. Down (vice president) went off second hand knowledge that State Farm was trying to \”force\” them to change the results.
I worked and grew up at State Farm. The guy in the chair to run the company brought the money religion to State Farm.
I am not surprised at anything I hear about them. His father and grand father must be spinning like tops. Ole JG is having a fit!
A lot of independent adjusting firms will screw their adjusters out of the money, if you do not do what you are told. I was once asked to change a proof of loss.
Citizens in Florida had my jaw dropped, by their operation. After Wilma, they did not total one tile roof. They knew there was no tile in Florida to do the repairs for three years, and in three years Citizens might have the money to pay the claim. They got no news coverage at all.
As a storm adjuster, I see this crap all the time. Please note Don Imus got more coverage.
Old Claims Specialist
State Farm Firte and Casuality
Jewel-
Lets dumb it down. Did SF try to have engineers change reports in order to deny claims and pay out less money? Yes or no or \’not enough proff\’?
No, a 3 hour class was not meant to be a solution to the problem. Agents and adjusters have to be licensed but not the people in the claims office who are assigned the claims. Perhaps if all claims people were required to be licensed and held to the same standards as the agents selling their products perhaps they would do a better job and maybe think twice before acting and risk losing their license and being employed in the industry.
The first person attacked when a claim is denied or not properly settled, is the agent. Then if the insured files a complaint with the DOI the first person contacted is the agent.
Oh, and by the way, Rosie must be in Bush bashing class.
\”Did SF try to have engineers change reports in order to deny claims and pay out less money? Yes or no or \’not enough proff\’?\”
Hey, weren\’t you in New Kids on the Block? Well, I didn\’t like you then and I don\’t like you now.
To answer your question: How would I know? I don\’t work for State Farm. All I said was the 2 gentlemen from the engineering firm gave conflicting stories.
By the way, I don\’t know what proff is… but I would have to say I wouldn\’t know if there is enough proof because I haven\’t read the e-mails. (And I am sure that was probably a typo on your part- I hope. You could proofread though.)
\”Jewel-
I knew you wouldn\’t answer the question. I think the answer may be you don\’t want to know the answer. Nice attempt at a smoke screen though.\”
How about this Donnie? You get me the e-mails and then I will answer your question. Until I have *all* the information, I can\’t make such a statement. I like how you ASSume though. Does this mean you don\’t believe in \”innocent until proven guilty\”? If so, then I hope you never get arrested for a felony.
I am not afraid of the answer. I didn\’t do anything wrong. I don\’t work for State Farm. I do, however, know that it is wrong to \”slaughter\” someone or something without knowing the facts.
After reading and some laughing at all the posted comments I know that I have the answer. With all of the press around Don Imus and his comments and lack of thought before opening his mouth and speaking it MUST be his fault.
Actuary-
Actually, SF with file a motion with the court to exclude the evidence, lose the motion, settle out of court with a confidentiality agreement, fire some midlevel manager who was just following orders, and resume to screwing policyholders that are not on equal footing to fight for the benefits for which they bargained and paid premiums.
Unless we have read the report in their entirety including having been able to examine any of the engineering date we are ALL just makiing the conclusion that we want.
Most of us realize that without ALL the facts we are just guessing based upon or own up take on the IJ article.
If anyone want to really post an honest comment thenthey had better read ALL the reports and the data that supports the reports. Since no one here which I believe includes you have not, then this is all just a great big guess and many comments are just our attempt at humor, good or bad.
I hope what ever you do in this industry you actaully have all the facts before you make a decision for your company.
Jumping to conclusions: Never a good idea, but is sometimes human nature. Just look at what happened with the Duke Lacrosse team. It tore the University and community apart. All on false accusations that sprung life on its own with not one shred of evidence. Everybody thought those boys were guilty at the outset. You\’d think the Salem witch trials would have taught a lesson to this country, but it\’s worse now than ever before. Guilty, until proven innocent!
Jewel: Miller Light, Extra cheese (like my music) with pep., mushrooms, & green olives. We\’re ON!!
I\’m with you for the beer and pizzas… but a little confused by your post as well.
Were the following comments directed at me?
\”If anyone want to really post an honest comment thenthey had better read ALL the reports and the data that supports the reports. Since no one here which I believe includes you have not…\”
\”I hope what ever you do in this industry you actaully have all the facts before you make a decision for your company.\”
I didn\’t make ANY conclusions… I stated I don\’t have all the facts.
OK, everyone but Donnie is invited… get on in the bus, we are going to get drunk! :)
I have enjoyed reading all the posts. Like listening to the Jerry Springer Show. Let Donnie on the bus because he probably could use a drink (or two or three) after all the abuse. He might even turn out to be fun when drunk. LOL
B:
Thank you!!!! I just did not feel right not reading Rosie’s anti-Bush rantings. But there she is, blaming Bush for cow flatulance or something. She is a kick and she is always good for a laugh.
Not directed at you at all. Actually agreeing with you. Just merely an observation that sometimes it\’s human nature for people to jump to conclusions when they don\’t know all the facts, or just pick out the facts that support their views. It creates drama, which our culture thrives on. Good or bad, it\’s just how it is.
Sorry. This is the first time I made a post on this site. I was under the assumption it was for an intelligent discussion regarding SF\’s practices after Katrina. If people are here for fun, they might want to find a way to have fun that acually is. Like drinkg and eating pizza. I figured all the insco apologizers would go back in there holes when someone with an anti-SF point of view was still willing to post after being ridiculed. NKOTB will never die!
Who is defending the companies? What post says that? We just want to see justice done regardless. I think Donnie needs to go back to the Duke web postings where his jumping(to conclusions) skills can be genuinely appreciated. Let\’s just see how all this shakes out. If the company is wrong, step on them. If not, get off their back.
What in my posts makes you think I am an ins co apologizer?
I never said anything of the sort. I just said there would be a lot of people getting their undies in a bundle over this article and I was right. You are jumping to conclusion, ins co hater. And if someone posts for the ins co they are jumping to conclusions too.
Now get on the bus and I will bring your muzzle to you. I will play some NKOTB for you, at your request.
P.S. There is no way to have an intelligent discussion on here when they just let any old riff raff in… (I direct that comment at you, in case you didn\’t get it)
State Farm doesn\’t honor contracts unless it suits their interest. Trying to change engineering reports would be typical of some of the things the executives of State Farm have done. If you would like one of the more recent breaches of a contract by State Farm go to the California Court website and get the information on Patricia Adkins Insurance Agency v State Farm, Case#C050591 Calif 3rd Appellate Dist. The Appellate Court ruled State Farm breached the contract of its own agents.
Hey Donnie – we can ask the same thing of you. What\’s your hidden agenda and why are you so against SF? So I ask you…
Ask yourself if you are capable of an independent analysis of the \”facts\” (as we know them) or if you will say anything in an attempt to prove that an insurance co engaged in unethical behavior.
Sure. I am a real estate lawyer. I did plaintiffs work for five years. I lived with the b/s denials, games, etc. played by the likes of SF and AS. I couldn\’t take it any longer and had the opportunity to change my specialty. It is a miserable life whether you represented plaintiffs or defendants. I still keep up with current events and was emailed a link to this story this am. When i initially heard about these changed Katrina engineeering reports, I was outraged. If you are/were in the business, you know with 99% certainty these allegations are true. I have filed bad faith lawsuits in the past. Inscos refuse your claim until they get to the courthouse steps, then the first legitimate settlement offer comes with a confidentiality stipulation. By this point, your client just wants to end the whole fiasco and get the benefits they were entitle to years before. No one ever finds out how the insco acted because of the confidentiality.
Factfinder and those others trying to show the truth about State Farm. Give it up, the CEO Mr. Rust, put out a memo that employees were to defend the company to death. One of the agents posted it here. The agency and clerical (mostly clerical like Jewel, Mary B., David, and Mark) staff of State Farm are searching the internet for message boards to defend the mother company. The CEO got excited when they were about to indict him a month ago.
\”There is no way to have an intelligent discussion on here when they just let any old riff raff in… (I direct that comment at you, in case you didn\’t get it)\”
No, you clearly meant Jews and African Americans.
(See what can happen when you read between the lines and make \”logical inferrences\” based on your own agenda instead of reading what people actually say?)
I just realized my reading comprehension sucks. I read Jewel\’s post and I didn\’t see that she was referring to Jews or African Americans. I only read her words and took them as they were. Glad actuary is there to point these things out for us.
State Farm executives do not keep notes, or minutes, of board or other meetings. I guess it makes for good deniability. How many large corporations operate like that?
Oh great the serial sexual harasser is back. Everyone grab your tin foil hats for the bus ride while we listen to the old hick tell tales. I wonder if Joe and Rosie are related. Love how old Joe can offer nothing substantial to any article , no facts, nothing new to state; just his old tired regurgitated tripe. Joe, your lies bore us to death.
I can\’t belive you do not know what NKOTB stands for. Kidding, I had to ask as well, it was mentioned in a prior posting but it stands for New Kids On The Block. A horrid late 80\’s, early 90\’s boy band. The reference is to Donnie and his postings.
I\’m sorry, you have reached a Rosie that is no longer in service at this time. Wonder where she is myself! Hey, Jewel, that was a cheap shot about not having many good posts here. There are so many of them here that I finally had to quit reading them – taking too much time. I am still one of your fans, though.
Poor Mary B. living in the sheltered State Farm world as a clerical employee. Sorry you have aboslutely no knowledge of the insurance business. Your boss should keep you away from the computer as your blind support of State Farm is hurting them more than helping.
This article is about State Farm is being sued by policyholders over the Katrina Disaster. However State Farm has become so bad even State Farm\’s own agents are taking State Farm to court. There are currently agent lawsuits in progress, or pending, in the states of Arkansas, Alabama, California, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Ohio, Texas, Utah and Washington and these are, or were, State Farm\’s own agents.
As for my agenda, I know right from wrong. I understand the injustices inflicted upon people like the Katrina victims by unethical corporate giants with established sops designed to frustrate and untimately screw these people out of the services for which they bargained and paid.
Donnie;
I dispute your last statement when you said that you know right from wrong. As an attorney you cannot, in good conscience, know right from wrong because if you did you could not function as an attorney. The key to any successful attorney is NOT knowing right from wrong but knowing what is best for your client. That is why attorneys have the highest rate of alcoholism and suicides in the country.
I know the whole point is to insulate you guys from human feelings, but real people with real lives in real distress are the ones being affected by the actions of SF upper mgt. Down with people, up with profits!
Very original attacking lawyers. That is what the insco pr firms want you to think about us. Sorry to ruin the charade, but I do care about my old clients as people.
Here is where you lose all credibility and you make it painfully obvious that you have no understanding of the insurance industry or the insurance contract. The contract is a contract of adhesion, meaning the policy holder has to conform and follow the policy guidelines. Insurance carrier do not \”bargain\” with the policy holder with respect to coverage.
It\’s pretty simple (that even a caveman can figure it out). Here is what we offer, this is covered and this is not covered. This is the premium, please pay or go away. The prospective policy holder either submits to the contract and buys the policy or they go elsewhere. No bargaining.
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust Jr.
Donnie:
Of course you care deeply about your clients, as you should. But caring as deeply as you do about your clients has left little room for debate. In your mind, SF is one hundred percent wrong and you are one hundred percent right. Your hatred has clouded your judgement to such an extent that you have become irrational. We see this in Rosie’s rantings and I see it in you and you are suppose to be among the most intelligent of people. Attorneys used to be one of the most admired professions in this country but the hate that spews from their mouths when they try to argue their point is disheartening. Seventy percent of our legislators are attorneys-that is scary!!!
You trying to explain that to me is laughable. These contracts are ridiculously one sided, as one sised as a paper tiger insurance commissioner will allow. The commissioner is appointed by the governor who received big sums from the ins lobby to help fund his campaign (also that of the guy he/she beat in the primary and general election). Does anyone remember SF\’s big announcement that they were pulling auto coverage out of NJ? They needed to do that to get the governor back in line. Anyone in the know laughed and knew SF wasn\’t going anywhere. Get a clue how policies are written and regulated.
What have I said that is irrational? What happened to debating the facts? He is a lawyer, so lets attack him, not what he is saying. Forget who I am, what I do, where I come from, etc.
Did SF try to alter the claims process in these Katrina claims? Focus on that and not what I do for a living.
Of course they are one sided, that\’s the whole meaning/point of the contract of adhesion. There is no bargaining and no \”equal footing\” (between the \”insco.\” and the policy holder). So your point is that this is unfair. BFD! Life is unfair. If the policy holder, prospective or not, doesn\’t like the policy they can go without insurance, find another insurance carrier or start their own insurance company.
Donnie:
We cannot debate whether SF tried to alter anything because we do not have the facts. First law of debate-know your facts! I am not arguing the facts because I do not have enough facts to debate. The plaintiff attroneys obviously have the facts and they are so weak that they have to go to the press and argue their facts before an uniformed public that will, hopefully for the attorneys, rouse the public and cause them to become a lynchmob and attack the evil insurance monster. If I had the facts I would debate them. I do not and therefore will not. I see a lot of one sidedness in this debate and it is troubling.
Take your blinders off and put the kool aid down. The uninformed public is the victim of the industry, not the lawyers. The media is the tool high priced insurance lobbies use to misinform the public.
What section of the SF memo does it say hold all of your opinions until \’all\’ the facts are out? Is that after deny, deny, deny or stonewall, stonewall, stonewall? Does SF have anything to do with not enough facts?
I don\’t know how apologists for the insurance industry (whether or not you consider yourself to be one) sleep at night. Wake up!
Insult me? Why? What are you, in 8th grade or something? Drink too much kool-aid? Are you going to insult me because you have nothing to debate or refute? I seem to recall bullies like you and Joe from grade school that like to beat up on other kids because of their own inadequacies. No wonder you became an attorney.
Mary-
Way to throw up a smoke screen and not discuss SF\’s claims practices against Katrina claims for the 14th time. Do you have any opinions on SF\’s manipulation of the process or just me? If it is just about me, I am done entertaining you here. I guess you win either way. Sellout.
I typically find it hard to agree with trial lawyers, but you are right on about State Farm. As I first said to you, the State Farm employees have come to the resuce of their leader who was almost indicted. These here have limited knowledge and dodge the truth and bait and switch to avoid answering questions. One even thinks that Trent Lott was the prosecutor who brought charges against the CEO of State Farm. BTW, to correct you on one point, George Dale is the insurance commissioner and he is a democrat duly elected, not appointed. He is fighting to get his name on the ballot as a democrat. The governor, former republican chair Haley Barbour is obviously a republican. They do not always see eye to eye. Anyway, it is impossible to discuss the issues with those here as they cannot or will not comprehend the issues at hand.
My rant regarding insurance commissioners was meant to be general in nature. Accurate in NJ where I am from. Problem is, I got in to a sidebar with someone deflecting my comments away from the SK/Katrina claims dispute.
I know it is hard for many to say anything nice about lawyers, but the reputation is generally unwarranted.
A few bad apples get all the media attention. That and those B/S Stella Awards. Some people here need to check out snopes.com, home of debunking urban legends.
It has been fun but I must go home. I cannot believe you are in NJ where it is now 8pm and are still at work. Don’t you have a life. I must now retire to my home, wife and wonderful life. I own my own agency and have the freedom to waste my time, which I have done with gusto today. Good day and good night. It really has been fun. But I still missed Rosie.
I will try to post about everything I read in this one message:
\”Jewel….aren\’t you from FL? What part? May have a good looking guy for you. He is smart too!\” -Mary B.
Central Florida/Orlando area… smart is good… and a refreshing break from some of these imbeciles.
fakeadjusterjoe-
\”Give it up, the CEO Mr. Rust, put out a memo that employees were to defend the company to death. One of the agents posted it here.\”
Did I miss that post? Or is this something else you made up?
\”The agency and clerical (mostly clerical like Jewel, Mary B., David, and Mark) staff of State Farm are searching the internet for message boards to defend the mother company.\”
Well, now we see why we think Joe is such an idiot. He doesn\’t even have all the facts, yet Mary, David, Mark and I all work for SF. He probably think we work in the same office. ::yells to the crew:: \”Hey you guys! Let\’s go out for beers after work so we can talk about and laugh at Joe! No, Joe, it\’s okay, after you finish mopping you can come too. Sure, you can make fun of yourself. No problem!\”
Linda-
\”Hey Jewel if the bus crashes while you all are drinking and driving I just want everyone to know that is was Bushs fault\”
OK, now grab your sister Rosie so the bus can leave. ;) p.s. to not rosie- that post was too funny :)
waiting breathlessly-
Your response about lawyers knowing right from wrong was GREAT!!! I wait breathlessly (hopefully Donnie and Joe do too) for your next great posting. :)
Donnie-
\”What happened to debating the facts?\”
You brought up the alleged fact you\’re an attorney. Can we debate that? I think you\’re lying. You\’re not really an attorney. Did you think you would impress us? I know plenty of stupid lawyers though, so maybe you really are one. I really don\’t have all the facts though. Sorry, no jumping to conclusions on this one.
\”I don\’t know how apologists for the insurance industry (whether or not you consider yourself to be one) sleep at night. Wake up!\”
How can we sleep if you keep trying to wake us up? Shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
ACE-
If you\’re good looking, I will have your screening procedure commence at noon.
Thanks almost everyone! (Yes, I have too much free time on my hands today)
OK, seriously.. for all of you on here with a brain… this is where Joe and Donnie stop reading :)
Anyway, I was reading my local paper last night (Central Florida) and I came across this same article. However, I found one thing very interesting. The article is written by Michael Kunzelman… However, in MY newspaper this little, tiny piece of the article was missing.
\”Kochan, in an interview, said plaintiffs\’ attorneys are taking the e-mails out of context. King \”just felt like we weren\’t doing a technically accurate job,\’\’ but she wasn\’t pressuring Forensic to change conclusions so that claims could be denied, Kochan said.\”
Hmm… that changes the article quite a bit, doesn\’t it? This is why I don\’t always believe the media when they \”report the facts\”. What crap! This is also why I don\’t put much stock into what they say about big companies (and for the 1000th time I am not saying I am an INS CO supporter, Joe/Donnie… I know you asked someone to read this to you).
It\’s nice to know they left out a quote like that because they only had limited space. They should have just taken out all the verbs in the article and then we could have had a posting like we\’d get from Joe! :)
Please do not refer to me as Rosie\’s sister. I asked where you were from and might have a good looking smart guy for you. However, he is not in the same area as you and not interested in a move.
I guess I have too much time on my hands too but I just loved all the posts. Too bad Rosie did not join in.
I have been following the posts yesterday and this morning, mostly for entertainment value. I like to see opinions, debate and schoolyard bullying. However, in reading Donnie\’s latest post, I just have to jump in.
Donnie states… \”I know it is hard for many to say anything nice about lawyers, but the reputation is generally unwarranted.\”
Please substitute insurance carriers for the word lawyers. There are some carriers that deserve the bad rep they have just as there are many lawyers that deserve it. It is unfair to paint the entire insurance industry with the same brush. I work for an insurance company that pays the claims that are owed, and disputes the claims that are not owed. Do we get it wrong sometimes? Yes. Do we make mistakes sometimes? Yes. Are we human? Yes? How do I sleep at night? Very well thank you!
Donnie\’s next quote…\”A few bad apples get all the media attention.\” Isn\’t that what is going on with State Farm and Allstate right now?
I am not here to defend State Farm. If they are not paying claims they owe, and if they had engineers change reports and if they did all that has been alleged, they should be hung.
Another caveat…the article indicates the e-mails in dispute are open to different interpretation. How exactly were they meant? The interpretation will be up to a jury. Remember, perception IS reality.
Sam-
I think there is a lot of validity to your points. My attack is on the higher ups at SF and AS who have systematically instituted procedures to frustrate valid claims in order to frustrate customers and increase the bottom line.
Jewel-
You might be smart, but we would never know. Give an opinion on the topic! Stop trying to mask your perceived lack of inteligence and think out an opinion of your own. Give us a well reasoned opinion, not the gibberish you continually post. You seem to be afraid to say anything relevant at all. Your posts belong in an aol chat room for 11 year old school girls.
Ok, you\’re a bona fide moron. Did you read \”A very serious posting\”? CAN YOU READ?
I gave an opinion there. Now, kindly shut up with your stupid remarks before you give ALL lawyers an even worse reputation than they already have… And you would never know if I am smart because you lack the skills necessary to deduce if someone is smart. Or, because, to you, everyone who can count higher than you (higher than 5) is s-m-r-t smrt. (Hey Homer!)
\”Your posts belong in an aol chat room for 11 year old school girls.\” Yeah and I have seen you in chat rooms looking for 11 year old girls. What\’s your point?
Oh, yeah and I\’m with whoever said they liked your brother Marky Mark better. He\’s much better looking than you. :)
\”Yeah, I hope for his sake he has an 11 year old daughter.\”
I think we have entered a no win situation. You hope, for his sake, he has an 11 year old daughter. Meanwhile, I hope, for the sake of this country, that he has no kids. He would be in charge of teaching them morals and values. Ouch! That\’s scary.
Jewel-
That is not an opinion on this topic. It is you critiquing the media and how you perceive the editorial process. Insurance apologist 101: if you don\’t like the article, attack the author.
I\’ll give you a 15th try: do you have an opinion relative to how SF handled the Katrina claims?
Give up man. They have zero answers and are as you say, State Farm apologists. They wil not discuss the issues. Facts go over their heads at the speed of light.
\”Insurance apologist 101: if you don\’t like the article, attack the author.\”
Wow, you\’re getting dumber and dumber with each posting. Where did I attack the author?
How do you expect someone to have a debate with you when you make things up?
For the 15th time, I don\’t have enough information to voice an opinion on how they handled the Katrina claims. I\’m not an idiot who makes assumptions. That\’s your job (oh and that fake attorney thing you have going on).
If you are forcing me to choose a side, I won\’t do so. I will say that some claims were probably handled properly. Some were probably handled improperly.
Happy now? Wait, I know you won\’t be happy until I agree with you. Sorry, I won\’t become a moron just to suit you.
OK, everyone. I have something important to say! Put down your coffee and listen up ;)
On these threads, the intelligent ones TRY to have a logical, thoughtful debate. Unfortunately, we are soon joined by a bunch of idiots. In our frustration, we say witty, funny and semi-rude things. I mean, if our points aren\’t getting through the thick skulls, might as well inject the thread with some humor.
My point is this:
Go to the link above and read the response left by Morgan. See how his/her \”intellectual\” response closely mirrors our responses when WE are frustrated. Then you will see the perfect example of \”pot… meet kettle\”.
Boo hoo Jewel. Good luck dealing with SF when you mansion gets totalled by Hurricane Ed.
As for all of your idiotic comments, why would someone lie about being a trial lawyer on this site? Take your head out of your (fat? you said it) a** before you post. Think about the stupid things you write before you hit send and maybe you won\’t post so many dumb comments.
You don\’t want to have a discussion here. Remember me when the sh*t hits the fan and SF gets nailed to the cross for this. Then ask yourself if it is time to learn to think for yourself or to continue regurgitating sound bites fed to you by the insurance pr firms.
I tried to have a discussion with you, but you\’re not smart enough to follow… My mommy always told me to help those less fortunate. I always thought she was talking about money. Apparently, she meant intelligence as well.
Again, post after me so that you can have the last (no matter how stupid!) word.
Okay, Donnie is off the bus for the pizza and beer run.
Donnie, Jewell never said she was pro State Farm. I believe that insurance companies will try to screw their insured\’s at some point either by denying coverage or reducing the amount paid. Do I think every claim is handled in this matter, no. I think that most adjusters tried to settle the claims in a fair and ethical manner. Obviously, some were not.
I don\’t care what profession you work in, insurance, legal, medical, whatever, you will always have someone doing something unethical, illegal, unscrupulous. There is always a bad apple in the bunch somewhere.
Life goes on. Maybe you and Adjusterjoe should get one.
there is an over abundance of people with no knowledge of the subject matter who wish to espouse their views. Jewel, it must be a slow day at the cafe where you wait tables. You might start looking for a job as it appears that the cafe will go under. It is painfully obvious you have no knowledge of the insurance industry, much less claims. I am sorry you never found out what ajudication means. With you not being able to compehend the simnplest of terms, i know your life must be hard. Do you get WIC and SSI? You might want to check to see if section 8 applys to trailers. You might want to apply. I know you have problems with understanding and you probably could get disability checks also.
To Jewell, Donnie, adjusterjoe et al:
This has been a classic posting! If ever I could have imagined a posting showing just where we, as a nation, this is it. We started with a difference of opinion on something that has effected us all, even in Calif and it has degenerated into name calling and insults with no regard to the original discussion. Rush Limbaugh was the first to exploit this type of rhetoric and he succeeded so well at it that it has been imitated to the point where there is no consensus of opinion anymore. We just yell and shout and rant and rave. The extremists, of course, are easy to spot-Rosie, Donnie, Adjusterjoe, because they yell so loud all reason is drowned out. Our politicians reflect our nations morals and they do not go on the air unless they wish to say something negative about people who disagree with them. Look at the progression of postings on this site. It has degenerated into name calling and insults. This is exactly what is happening with our politicians and leaders. They do not care what is right or wrong. They are content to try to outshout their opponents and destroy the character of their opponents.
I said I would let Donnie have the lost word. But I am not addressing this to Donnie (and he hasn\’t posted his last word yet).
I see what you\’re saying. I also know that any time I have answered a question for Donnie or Joe, they don\’t agree with my answer and start insulting me (or this could apply to others on this board). So, I give it right back to them (only better)… If they are not going to pay attention when I respond to them, what is the point? There have been many times where people have posted responses to them in plain English only to have their posts ignored. This allows Donnie and Joe to feel better about insulting us. We give it a try (answering the questions, talking about the post) and are constantly insulted by those who don\’t agree. There have also been postings by those who don\’t agree but are level headed and non-inflammatory. Guess I\’ve just been rubbed the wrong way by idiots too many times to have the patience to deal with undeserved rudeness.
By the way, this isn\’t the first thread I have posted on… I find these people everywhere. The ones who are first to sling insults are the ones you can\’t debate with…
It is partly as you say, but the greater problem is the dumbing down of our society into people like Jewel who don\’t have a clue. This makes the frustration level high for those of us that are competent and knowledgable in our profession. Ignorance and blind support displayed by Jewel hurts our industry. In this situation, we have an insurance company that has done as it routinely does, play by their own rules without regards to the peoples lives they affect, all fo rthe sake of bottom line dollars. As I have stated before, there is a solution for disputes like this (the ocurts) and State Farm has lost and they are now scrambling to settle cases which should have been settled over 18 months ago. As long as the apologists and blind supporters of wrongdoing (Jewel, Linda, Mark, Dale, etc) by our industry are out there, insurance companies will continue to get a bad rap.
I agree with joe and waiting. Jewel, if you go back and read the postings, you will see I kept trying to discuss SF and you, and others like you, started all of the smoke screen name calling. You have either a terribly selective or malfunctioning memory.
I really do hope you never need to file a claim against SF after a life altering event. When someone who is down and thinks they are \’insured\’ gets denial after denial it is truly disheartening. In my experience, that is the only way someone like Jewel will ever see the light.
explain the difference between resolving a case through mediation and ajudication to Jewel. She thinks that the judge ordering mediation (and an agreement being reached in that process) is the same thing as hearing the case and handing down a written ruling. Do not forget to mention the possible adverse effect a written ruling would have versus a settlement agreement without an admission of guilt. As stated before, she has difficulty understanding the simplest of issues.
AdjusterJoe…..I guess you left the other posting since you couldn\’t prove your point and tried to come over to this one..I see Jewel (1 \”L\” incase your real slooow at learning) has been keeping you on your toes. I presented you with a question regarding slab cases that I know you won\’t answer except with another question back to me, but good luck….your really in a loose/loose situation.
As we all know, mediation is a form of alternative dispute resolution that aims to assist two (or more) disputants in reaching an agreement. The key component of mediation is that whether an agreement is reached, and what that agreement, if any, is, is determined by the parties themselves rather than being imposed by a third party. Also, adjusterjoe, we can agree that \”ajudication\” is not word. Adjudication, however, is the legal process by which an arbiter or judge reviews evidence and argumentation including legal reasoning set forth by opposing parties or litigants to come to a decision which determines rights and obligations between the parties involved. Three types of disputes are resolved through adjudication:
Disputes between private parties, such as individuals or corporations.
Disputes between private parties and public officials.
Disputes between public officials or public bodies
That being said, Jewel never mentioned either one so what, pray tell are you talking about? Making things up to prove your point but failing miserably. Brilliant!
classy heading. Jewel, under another thread, stated that mediation is a case which has been ajudicated. The one thing you left out was the benefit for one party (State Farm) to settle in mediation versus having the case ajudicated and having a written record of their loss and additional jurisprudence against them. As they already have no jurisprudence in their favor in slab cases from Katrina, they are cutting their losses and running.
glad to see you cannot respond when the FACTS do not fit your little distorted world view. Please tell how adjudication and mediation are the same as Jewel says they are. Will you backtrack on your post to protect Jewel or admit she does not have a clue?
It was wonderful. Thanks for asking. Still getting felt \”down\” by the Good Hands People. God love\’em!! This thread has got to be the longest in IJ history.
Any word from Rosie, yet? I saw her (1)post yesterday on the cows but then she disappeared. She didn\’t sound like she was up for it.
Dear Sir,
I humbly apologize for not responding within the 12 minute window you deemed appropriate. I was having lunch and enjoying a nice ham sandwich on rye. I also had a pickle. I pickle they. I am not sure who said adjudication and mediation are the same thing or where they said it. Please be so kind as to provide the link where Jewel said that adjudication and mediation are the same thing so then I can click the link and read it and then respond in kind. Hopefully you will allow me more than 12 minutes this time and if not perhaps an adjustment to one\’s patience should be considered. Thank you in advance for providing the link to prove your point that I\’m guessing does not exist.
ok, everyone-time to get to work. i got to finish so i can get a round of golf in. i read about the worst golf foresome in history and thought i would let you know who they are. Monica Lowinsky, OJ Simpson, Ted Kennedy, and Bill Clinton. Monica is a hooker, OJ is a slicer, Teddy boy can’t drive over water, and Bill can’t remember what hole he played last.
Have a nice day.
This thread officially just jumped the shark. Does ham sandwich even know what we are talking about? Does anyone even remember this is about the fraudulant practices of an insurer\’s claims practices in the midst of a national disaster? Or was that not proven yet? Whoever thinks \’all the facts are not out yet\’ can save us that opinion which really isn\’t an opinion at all.
Jewel\’s words speaking about the mediated cases. I know you will try to spin it to say that is not what she is saying but it is exactly what she said.
Here they are:
If 38 cases have been settled and you keep stating the ones State Farm denied were slab cases, then why did you say only 4 – 6 cases have been adjudicated by the courts? Now are you saying that all the claims SF denied were slab cases? Or just the 4 – 6 that have been settled? What happened to the 32 – 34 other cases?
Jewel is just plain dumb and does not have a clue.
is right….. Hancock Counties Mississipp
Posted On: April 22, 2007, 12:23 pm CDT
Posted By: Melanie / History. GED
Comment:
Everybody know,s The plaintiffs have alleged that\” Many hundreds , if not thousands, of individuals and / or entities have asserted Claims or have potential claims \” Against State Farm. Neither the plaintiffs nor State Farm has given the court any information from which the Court can determine with any reasonable degree of certainty how many policyholders are with in the proposed class or how many policyholders have each
Subject: RE: More Facts about State Farm
Posted On: April 12, 2007, 5:22 pm CDT
Posted By: Fact Finder
Comment:
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust Subject: RE: More Facts about State Farm
Posted On: April 12, 2007, 5:22 pm CDT
Posted By: Fact Finder
Comment:
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust
Consider how easy it is to commit insurance fraud. Even insurance textbooks
admit that policies are unread and unreadable. According to Vaughan and Vaughan,
Fundamentals of Risk and Insurance (8th edition): \”In most cases, the customer
is asked to purchase a product in which he or she becomes a party to a contract
that he or she has not read nor would understand if it were read.\” That is
almost an open invitation to fraud. When selling the contract or when paying
claims under it, insurance personnel know that the buyer or claimant may be at
their mercy. Claims adjusters, anxious to make a record by denying claims, have
a field day. Insurance agents, anxious to earn commissions, can also join the
field day in puffing and misrepresenting policies.
Consider also the strength and weaknesses of the parties. On the one hand, you
have an insurance company, with armies of experts and boxcars full of money. On
the other hand, you have a claimant, who may not be well advised, who knows
little about insurance or the policy in question, and who can\’t afford legal
battles and long delays. But to an insurance company, a legal battle is just
another routine cost of doing business. It has lawyers in house and all over its
operating territory. If it denies a claim, it\’s can be in a win-win situation.
There\’s a good chance the claimant will give up and go away. Even if the
claimant protests and appeals to higher levels of management or goes to the
state insurance commissioner, the insurance company can then pay and has the
benefit of the claimant\’s money sitting in the bank in the meantime. Even if the
claimant hires a lawyer and sues, the insurer can then settle. Only in
exceptional cases (when an attorney takes the case, proves that the insurance
company acted in bad faith, and wins an award of punitive damages for the
claimant), improper decisions by the company can be profitable for the company.
there will be a lot of angry comments on here from people who don\’t bother to read this article carefully. 2 people from the same firm are giving conflicting stories. The one who is speaking against State Farm did not have any first hand knowledge of what transpired.
However, the article seems to contradict itself on many points.
It will be interesting to see what conclusions people draw from this article. I am sure they will only pay attention to the parts of the article that support their thoughts.
Yep – adjusterjoe will ask if anyone can prove that companies other than SF and Nationwide denied slab claims 100%.
Rosie will say its all Bush\’s fault and that we need federal regulation.
Roger Poe will say the entire industry is corrupt.
I miss any of the usual suspects?
You did a great job!
Maybe Joanna Eiermann (not BOOM BOOM or STARDUST or JEWEL) who will go along with the majority \”stupid\” (a new catch phrase perhaps?).
LOL… Have you had the (dis)pleasure of reading her posts yet?
Have a good one!
I missed one!
I\’ve seen a few of her posts. I mostly lurk and read a lot of comments, but don\’t leave a lot of my own.
Rosie must have moved to Cuba or some other communist country.
Compman……he\’s usually good for a smarmy post. Be on the lookout…..he could be lurking…..
You guys need to stop apologizing for this company. Anyone not convinced SF tried to alter these reports to pay out less money is going out of their way to deny the obvious. Ask yourself if you are capable of an independent analysis of the facts or if you will say anything to deny an insurance co engaged in unethical behavior. Insurance is the only industry where the company doing the selling never wants you to use their services. The mentality is clearly \’pay us the premiums and then leave us alone.\’ Disgusting.
Hey, Donnie, are you married to Rosie? I halfway expected your next paragraph to read ‘George Bush conspired with State Farm to deny coverages to the wretched soles who could least afford to lose everything they had. We need a democratic congress investigation and impeachment of Bush as he is responsible. He is the devil sent to destroy us all’.
Please respond Rosie! We are waiting on pins and needles for your anti-Bush tirade.
Very intelligent response. Ridicule me and do not address the substance of my comments or the facts. You must drink a gallon of kool-aid per day.
Where is Rosie when we need her? And all the other people too! Almost makes me avoid the article & just go to the posts! You guys are great!
C\’mon any of you yahoos ever held an executive level claims management position? Ever sat in a a strategy meeting or reviewed claims for bad faith handling. Or simply audited claim files to see how inept most adjusters are? Or have you spent your career as a low level adjuster feeding off the pond-scum? Do you think this is not true? It\’s not about being fair and equitable to policyholders, it\’a about winning. Why are there so many bad faith claims out there. Most of these don\’t make headlines the Ins. Co.\’s just cash-out and settle once they realize they\’re wrong…then they blame the poor overworked, undertrained and unsupervised adjusters!
I think you\’re the one in need of a \”wake up\” call.
No one on this thread posted anything that even slightly resembles your comment.
Try reading what we\’re writing… not what you make up in your mind.
Thanks
I don\’t know about other states but here in the great state of Florida licensed agents are required to take a 3 hour course in ethics every two years in order to keep our licenses. I think the companies need to have ethic required courses as well.
I am not supporting the notion that every claim should be paid but I think that SF and others tried to get away with paying as little as possible or nothing at all. Also, experienced first hand the length of time from when claims were adjusted to the time it took to receive the checks. Too long!
I love the posts too.
That ought to do the trick. A 3-hour Ethics Class. Perfect! Problem Solved. Now, where the heck is Rosie? This is all HER fault…and George Bush\’s.
C\’mon, where are you girl?
Are you guys reading the same article I\’m reading? I\’ve never worked in claims, so I don\’t have any baggage to bring, but just by reading the article, it sounds to me like SF made two very reasonable requests of the engineering firm:
1. use better wording to support your report\’s conclusions, and
2. take steps to make sure that the wind damage isn\’t overestimated.
The fact that the engineering firm\’s VP flew off the handle and accused SF of trying to get them to change their conclusions doesn\’t mean there\’s any truth to his accusations.
It seems to me that the lawyers know there\’s no smoking gun here, otherwise they\’d be making their case in court instead of in the press.
Jewel,
I do see that one of the engineering firm\’s employees was speaking from second hand knowledge, but it doesn\’t sound like the two are giving conflicting stories. Could you please point out the conflict between the two non-SF employees for me?
Thanks.
Actuary-
I don\’t think the SF bashers READ the article. Or, as I posted earlier, they will choose to use only the information which HELPS their cause rather than refutes their cause.
I agree with your post. I think it is very well written. That doesn\’t happen a lot around here. ;)
Of course, the SF bashers aren\’t going to believe you are impartial. They will tell you that you obviously work for SF and are a moron. I say if you \”work\” for State Farm, tell them to pony up with your paycheck!
It is sad, but I think most of the posters on here are not going to understand one word of what you said… Next time you should \”dumb\” it down quite a bit.
Thanks for the great post!
Actuary-
Are you capable of reading between the lines and making logical inferences? I suppose OJ didn\’t kill his wife?
Sure. I read the story a couple of times before I posted that response. I like to make sure I am accurate.
Basically, I pulled out a few excerpts for you:
\”The e-mails between Forensic president and CEO Robert Kochan and Randy Down, the firm\’s vice president of engineering services, outline complaints…
Kochan says the firm will continue working with State Farm, but discusses needing to \”redo the wording\’\’ of a report after a discussion with King \”such that the conclusions are better supported.\’\’
Kochan, in an interview, said plaintiffs\’ attorneys are taking the e-mails out of context. King \”just felt like we weren\’t doing a technically accurate job,\’\’ but she wasn\’t pressuring Forensic to change conclusions so that claims could be denied, Kochan said.
Down, who has since left Forensic and started his own engineering company, said in an interview that he was relying on \”secondhand\’\’ information about State Farm\’s complaints and wasn\’t directly involved in Forensic\’s work on Katrina claims. He said the threat to fire the firm came \”out of the blue.\’\’\”
So, Kochan (president and CEO) says King was not pressuring the firm to CHANGE results, but rather re-word them. Down (vice president) went off second hand knowledge that State Farm was trying to \”force\” them to change the results.
I think this is a poorly written article.
I hope this helps!
I worked and grew up at State Farm. The guy in the chair to run the company brought the money religion to State Farm.
I am not surprised at anything I hear about them. His father and grand father must be spinning like tops. Ole JG is having a fit!
A lot of independent adjusting firms will screw their adjusters out of the money, if you do not do what you are told. I was once asked to change a proof of loss.
Citizens in Florida had my jaw dropped, by their operation. After Wilma, they did not total one tile roof. They knew there was no tile in Florida to do the repairs for three years, and in three years Citizens might have the money to pay the claim. They got no news coverage at all.
As a storm adjuster, I see this crap all the time. Please note Don Imus got more coverage.
Old Claims Specialist
State Farm Firte and Casuality
Jewel-
Lets dumb it down. Did SF try to have engineers change reports in order to deny claims and pay out less money? Yes or no or \’not enough proff\’?
Donnie;
As to the proff (we say proof) they got their butt kicked by Dickie Skruggs.
It would have never happened in the old days at State Farm
Tom
No, a 3 hour class was not meant to be a solution to the problem. Agents and adjusters have to be licensed but not the people in the claims office who are assigned the claims. Perhaps if all claims people were required to be licensed and held to the same standards as the agents selling their products perhaps they would do a better job and maybe think twice before acting and risk losing their license and being employed in the industry.
The first person attacked when a claim is denied or not properly settled, is the agent. Then if the insured files a complaint with the DOI the first person contacted is the agent.
Oh, and by the way, Rosie must be in Bush bashing class.
\”Did SF try to have engineers change reports in order to deny claims and pay out less money? Yes or no or \’not enough proff\’?\”
Hey, weren\’t you in New Kids on the Block? Well, I didn\’t like you then and I don\’t like you now.
To answer your question: How would I know? I don\’t work for State Farm. All I said was the 2 gentlemen from the engineering firm gave conflicting stories.
By the way, I don\’t know what proff is… but I would have to say I wouldn\’t know if there is enough proof because I haven\’t read the e-mails. (And I am sure that was probably a typo on your part- I hope. You could proofread though.)
Jewel-
I knew you wouldn\’t answer the question. I think the answer may be you don\’t want to know the answer. Nice attempt at a smoke screen though.
A little red hot chili pepper. A chick with an attitude. And a smart one, too. I like that. You go girl! Don\’t let them push you \’round.
Donnie must be a happy, happy man.
\”Jewel-
I knew you wouldn\’t answer the question. I think the answer may be you don\’t want to know the answer. Nice attempt at a smoke screen though.\”
How about this Donnie? You get me the e-mails and then I will answer your question. Until I have *all* the information, I can\’t make such a statement. I like how you ASSume though. Does this mean you don\’t believe in \”innocent until proven guilty\”? If so, then I hope you never get arrested for a felony.
I am not afraid of the answer. I didn\’t do anything wrong. I don\’t work for State Farm. I do, however, know that it is wrong to \”slaughter\” someone or something without knowing the facts.
I am sorry you are ignorant. :(
LOL. I think I could take on Rosie…
What do you think? ;)
How much are tickets? I want front row seats for that one. Ding! Ding!
Jewel-
You are entitled to take all of the known information and utilize deductive reasoning to form an opinion. If a tree falls in the woods…
After reading and some laughing at all the posted comments I know that I have the answer. With all of the press around Don Imus and his comments and lack of thought before opening his mouth and speaking it MUST be his fault.
I enjoy all of the dualing.
\”Actuary-Are you capable of reading between the lines and making logical inferences?\”
Sure, I\’m also capable of reading into statements what I want them to say, I just try not to.
These clowns will be shredded in court if they try to submit this as \”evidence.\”
Actuary-
Actually, SF with file a motion with the court to exclude the evidence, lose the motion, settle out of court with a confidentiality agreement, fire some midlevel manager who was just following orders, and resume to screwing policyholders that are not on equal footing to fight for the benefits for which they bargained and paid premiums.
Stop apologizing for these oportunistic thieves.
\”Jewel-
You are entitled to take all of the known information and utilize deductive reasoning to form an opinion. If a tree falls in the woods…\”
I am entitled to a lot of things… jumping to conclusions is one I choose to pass on… thanks
ACE-
You got it. I\’ll have beers and pizza for you too, if you want…
Know the REAL answer-
Think before you speak? A novel idea!
:)
Donnie:
I just figured it out. You are Rosie in drag. That’s why Rosie has not posted anything.
Unless we have read the report in their entirety including having been able to examine any of the engineering date we are ALL just makiing the conclusion that we want.
Most of us realize that without ALL the facts we are just guessing based upon or own up take on the IJ article.
If anyone want to really post an honest comment thenthey had better read ALL the reports and the data that supports the reports. Since no one here which I believe includes you have not, then this is all just a great big guess and many comments are just our attempt at humor, good or bad.
I hope what ever you do in this industry you actaully have all the facts before you make a decision for your company.
Now let\’s all go out for a some beers and pizza.
Jumping to conclusions: Never a good idea, but is sometimes human nature. Just look at what happened with the Duke Lacrosse team. It tore the University and community apart. All on false accusations that sprung life on its own with not one shred of evidence. Everybody thought those boys were guilty at the outset. You\’d think the Salem witch trials would have taught a lesson to this country, but it\’s worse now than ever before. Guilty, until proven innocent!
Jewel: Miller Light, Extra cheese (like my music) with pep., mushrooms, & green olives. We\’re ON!!
That was intelligent. Way to add something meaningful. Is this a middle school chat room?
She\’s on the Neb Slaughterhouse article. This is kind of like a game of Where\’s Waldo? Do I win a prize?
What fun!
Just hit it once.
Ease up, Donnie. Don\’t take it too seriously. We\’re all just having a little fun with rants, here.
I\’m with you for the beer and pizzas… but a little confused by your post as well.
Were the following comments directed at me?
\”If anyone want to really post an honest comment thenthey had better read ALL the reports and the data that supports the reports. Since no one here which I believe includes you have not…\”
\”I hope what ever you do in this industry you actaully have all the facts before you make a decision for your company.\”
I didn\’t make ANY conclusions… I stated I don\’t have all the facts.
OK, everyone but Donnie is invited… get on in the bus, we are going to get drunk! :)
ROFL. Yes, you win a prize. Beer and pizza-hurry, hurry… get into the bus.
I was wondering where you were… your posts make my sides hurt… :)))
I have enjoyed reading all the posts. Like listening to the Jerry Springer Show. Let Donnie on the bus because he probably could use a drink (or two or three) after all the abuse. He might even turn out to be fun when drunk. LOL
B:
Thank you!!!! I just did not feel right not reading Rosie’s anti-Bush rantings. But there she is, blaming Bush for cow flatulance or something. She is a kick and she is always good for a laugh.
Not directed at you at all. Actually agreeing with you. Just merely an observation that sometimes it\’s human nature for people to jump to conclusions when they don\’t know all the facts, or just pick out the facts that support their views. It creates drama, which our culture thrives on. Good or bad, it\’s just how it is.
Now, let\’s party!! Anybody seen Rosie?
Sorry. This is the first time I made a post on this site. I was under the assumption it was for an intelligent discussion regarding SF\’s practices after Katrina. If people are here for fun, they might want to find a way to have fun that acually is. Like drinkg and eating pizza. I figured all the insco apologizers would go back in there holes when someone with an anti-SF point of view was still willing to post after being ridiculed. NKOTB will never die!
I actually was directing that toward Know the REAL answer.
I now you know what\’s going on… I agree with you too :)
I will let Donnie on the bus as long as he promises not to speak until VERY VERY drunk!
Ok. I\’m probably going to regret asking, but what is NKOTB?
Thanks Jewel,
I was on the motorcycle helmet thread earlier. The debate was about whether helmets help or hurt riders.
Who is defending the companies? What post says that? We just want to see justice done regardless. I think Donnie needs to go back to the Duke web postings where his jumping(to conclusions) skills can be genuinely appreciated. Let\’s just see how all this shakes out. If the company is wrong, step on them. If not, get off their back.
Donnie, you can sit next to me. I\’ve got a beer bong.
ok everyone, listen up. I just envited Rosie over to this article. Stand by.
What in my posts makes you think I am an ins co apologizer?
I never said anything of the sort. I just said there would be a lot of people getting their undies in a bundle over this article and I was right. You are jumping to conclusion, ins co hater. And if someone posts for the ins co they are jumping to conclusions too.
Now get on the bus and I will bring your muzzle to you. I will play some NKOTB for you, at your request.
P.S. There is no way to have an intelligent discussion on here when they just let any old riff raff in… (I direct that comment at you, in case you didn\’t get it)
They don\’t let just \”any\” riff raff in here. We were all screened beforehand…and passed. So, they let us in. Wanna bite of pepperoni?
Wait….You guys got screened? I just got felt up.
Yeah, that was it. Girls get felt up, guys felt down. Congratulations!! You made it through.
That was too funny!!
Must have been the good hands people.
Where\’s the beer?
ABC News (online) has an article along with the emails referenced in the article….. the link is below for any of you interested. Happy reading
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/damaging_intern.html
OMG! Shut up Linda!!! Too funny! You crack me up… I need it after dealing with a bunch of imbeciles..
B-
Too funny as well…
When is my turn to get felt up? Can I have a good looking guy???
Hey wait! I\’m a guy though…..Dammit I knew it didn\’t seem right….
I haven\’t looked at the site yet, but thanks for posting it!
Now some of us can draw educated conclusions and some of us can still draw UNeducated conclusions (how sad).
As long as you got felt by a woman, the rest should be ok.
You could always ask for a do over.
Jewel….aren\’t you from FL? What part? May have a good looking guy for you. He is smart too!
State Farm doesn\’t honor contracts unless it suits their interest. Trying to change engineering reports would be typical of some of the things the executives of State Farm have done. If you would like one of the more recent breaches of a contract by State Farm go to the California Court website and get the information on Patricia Adkins Insurance Agency v State Farm, Case#C050591 Calif 3rd Appellate Dist. The Appellate Court ruled State Farm breached the contract of its own agents.
Hey Donnie – we can ask the same thing of you. What\’s your hidden agenda and why are you so against SF? So I ask you…
Ask yourself if you are capable of an independent analysis of the \”facts\” (as we know them) or if you will say anything in an attempt to prove that an insurance co engaged in unethical behavior.
Sure. I am a real estate lawyer. I did plaintiffs work for five years. I lived with the b/s denials, games, etc. played by the likes of SF and AS. I couldn\’t take it any longer and had the opportunity to change my specialty. It is a miserable life whether you represented plaintiffs or defendants. I still keep up with current events and was emailed a link to this story this am. When i initially heard about these changed Katrina engineeering reports, I was outraged. If you are/were in the business, you know with 99% certainty these allegations are true. I have filed bad faith lawsuits in the past. Inscos refuse your claim until they get to the courthouse steps, then the first legitimate settlement offer comes with a confidentiality stipulation. By this point, your client just wants to end the whole fiasco and get the benefits they were entitle to years before. No one ever finds out how the insco acted because of the confidentiality.
Factfinder and those others trying to show the truth about State Farm. Give it up, the CEO Mr. Rust, put out a memo that employees were to defend the company to death. One of the agents posted it here. The agency and clerical (mostly clerical like Jewel, Mary B., David, and Mark) staff of State Farm are searching the internet for message boards to defend the mother company. The CEO got excited when they were about to indict him a month ago.
Hey Jewel if the bus crashes while you all are drinking and driving I just want everyone to know that is was Bushs fault.
\”There is no way to have an intelligent discussion on here when they just let any old riff raff in… (I direct that comment at you, in case you didn\’t get it)\”
No, you clearly meant Jews and African Americans.
(See what can happen when you read between the lines and make \”logical inferrences\” based on your own agenda instead of reading what people actually say?)
I just realized my reading comprehension sucks. I read Jewel\’s post and I didn\’t see that she was referring to Jews or African Americans. I only read her words and took them as they were. Glad actuary is there to point these things out for us.
State Farm executives do not keep notes, or minutes, of board or other meetings. I guess it makes for good deniability. How many large corporations operate like that?
Oh great the serial sexual harasser is back. Everyone grab your tin foil hats for the bus ride while we listen to the old hick tell tales. I wonder if Joe and Rosie are related. Love how old Joe can offer nothing substantial to any article , no facts, nothing new to state; just his old tired regurgitated tripe. Joe, your lies bore us to death.
Can we get back to the screening procedures please?
B –
I can\’t belive you do not know what NKOTB stands for. Kidding, I had to ask as well, it was mentioned in a prior posting but it stands for New Kids On The Block. A horrid late 80\’s, early 90\’s boy band. The reference is to Donnie and his postings.
I\’m sorry, you have reached a Rosie that is no longer in service at this time. Wonder where she is myself! Hey, Jewel, that was a cheap shot about not having many good posts here. There are so many of them here that I finally had to quit reading them – taking too much time. I am still one of your fans, though.
Poor Mary B. living in the sheltered State Farm world as a clerical employee. Sorry you have aboslutely no knowledge of the insurance business. Your boss should keep you away from the computer as your blind support of State Farm is hurting them more than helping.
Mary-
You asked. I answered. You had nothing else to say? Are you a SF ee following the company memo?
This article is about State Farm is being sued by policyholders over the Katrina Disaster. However State Farm has become so bad even State Farm\’s own agents are taking State Farm to court. There are currently agent lawsuits in progress, or pending, in the states of Arkansas, Alabama, California, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Ohio, Texas, Utah and Washington and these are, or were, State Farm\’s own agents.
As for my agenda, I know right from wrong. I understand the injustices inflicted upon people like the Katrina victims by unethical corporate giants with established sops designed to frustrate and untimately screw these people out of the services for which they bargained and paid.
Donnie;
I dispute your last statement when you said that you know right from wrong. As an attorney you cannot, in good conscience, know right from wrong because if you did you could not function as an attorney. The key to any successful attorney is NOT knowing right from wrong but knowing what is best for your client. That is why attorneys have the highest rate of alcoholism and suicides in the country.
Donnie –
I did. You did. Not really. No.
FYI – I was an adjuster for 15 years and worked for AAA and AIG. For the last 10 years I have been a licensed insurance agent and work for a Broker.
FYI – I like your brother Mark(y) Mark much better than you.
I know the whole point is to insulate you guys from human feelings, but real people with real lives in real distress are the ones being affected by the actions of SF upper mgt. Down with people, up with profits!
Very original attacking lawyers. That is what the insco pr firms want you to think about us. Sorry to ruin the charade, but I do care about my old clients as people.
Here is where you lose all credibility and you make it painfully obvious that you have no understanding of the insurance industry or the insurance contract. The contract is a contract of adhesion, meaning the policy holder has to conform and follow the policy guidelines. Insurance carrier do not \”bargain\” with the policy holder with respect to coverage.
It\’s pretty simple (that even a caveman can figure it out). Here is what we offer, this is covered and this is not covered. This is the premium, please pay or go away. The prospective policy holder either submits to the contract and buys the policy or they go elsewhere. No bargaining.
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust Jr.
Donnie:
Of course you care deeply about your clients, as you should. But caring as deeply as you do about your clients has left little room for debate. In your mind, SF is one hundred percent wrong and you are one hundred percent right. Your hatred has clouded your judgement to such an extent that you have become irrational. We see this in Rosie’s rantings and I see it in you and you are suppose to be among the most intelligent of people. Attorneys used to be one of the most admired professions in this country but the hate that spews from their mouths when they try to argue their point is disheartening. Seventy percent of our legislators are attorneys-that is scary!!!
You trying to explain that to me is laughable. These contracts are ridiculously one sided, as one sised as a paper tiger insurance commissioner will allow. The commissioner is appointed by the governor who received big sums from the ins lobby to help fund his campaign (also that of the guy he/she beat in the primary and general election). Does anyone remember SF\’s big announcement that they were pulling auto coverage out of NJ? They needed to do that to get the governor back in line. Anyone in the know laughed and knew SF wasn\’t going anywhere. Get a clue how policies are written and regulated.
What have I said that is irrational? What happened to debating the facts? He is a lawyer, so lets attack him, not what he is saying. Forget who I am, what I do, where I come from, etc.
Did SF try to alter the claims process in these Katrina claims? Focus on that and not what I do for a living.
Of course they are one sided, that\’s the whole meaning/point of the contract of adhesion. There is no bargaining and no \”equal footing\” (between the \”insco.\” and the policy holder). So your point is that this is unfair. BFD! Life is unfair. If the policy holder, prospective or not, doesn\’t like the policy they can go without insurance, find another insurance carrier or start their own insurance company.
I do know how policies are written. By lawyers….
Donnie:
We cannot debate whether SF tried to alter anything because we do not have the facts. First law of debate-know your facts! I am not arguing the facts because I do not have enough facts to debate. The plaintiff attroneys obviously have the facts and they are so weak that they have to go to the press and argue their facts before an uniformed public that will, hopefully for the attorneys, rouse the public and cause them to become a lynchmob and attack the evil insurance monster. If I had the facts I would debate them. I do not and therefore will not. I see a lot of one sidedness in this debate and it is troubling.
I have just used all of the restraint in my inner fibre not to insult you. What is your opinion of how SF handled Katrina claims? Fraudulant?
Take your blinders off and put the kool aid down. The uninformed public is the victim of the industry, not the lawyers. The media is the tool high priced insurance lobbies use to misinform the public.
What section of the SF memo does it say hold all of your opinions until \’all\’ the facts are out? Is that after deny, deny, deny or stonewall, stonewall, stonewall? Does SF have anything to do with not enough facts?
I don\’t know how apologists for the insurance industry (whether or not you consider yourself to be one) sleep at night. Wake up!
Insult me? Why? What are you, in 8th grade or something? Drink too much kool-aid? Are you going to insult me because you have nothing to debate or refute? I seem to recall bullies like you and Joe from grade school that like to beat up on other kids because of their own inadequacies. No wonder you became an attorney.
Mary-
Way to throw up a smoke screen and not discuss SF\’s claims practices against Katrina claims for the 14th time. Do you have any opinions on SF\’s manipulation of the process or just me? If it is just about me, I am done entertaining you here. I guess you win either way. Sellout.
I typically find it hard to agree with trial lawyers, but you are right on about State Farm. As I first said to you, the State Farm employees have come to the resuce of their leader who was almost indicted. These here have limited knowledge and dodge the truth and bait and switch to avoid answering questions. One even thinks that Trent Lott was the prosecutor who brought charges against the CEO of State Farm. BTW, to correct you on one point, George Dale is the insurance commissioner and he is a democrat duly elected, not appointed. He is fighting to get his name on the ballot as a democrat. The governor, former republican chair Haley Barbour is obviously a republican. They do not always see eye to eye. Anyway, it is impossible to discuss the issues with those here as they cannot or will not comprehend the issues at hand.
My rant regarding insurance commissioners was meant to be general in nature. Accurate in NJ where I am from. Problem is, I got in to a sidebar with someone deflecting my comments away from the SK/Katrina claims dispute.
I know it is hard for many to say anything nice about lawyers, but the reputation is generally unwarranted.
A few bad apples get all the media attention. That and those B/S Stella Awards. Some people here need to check out snopes.com, home of debunking urban legends.
It has been fun but I must go home. I cannot believe you are in NJ where it is now 8pm and are still at work. Don’t you have a life. I must now retire to my home, wife and wonderful life. I own my own agency and have the freedom to waste my time, which I have done with gusto today. Good day and good night. It really has been fun. But I still missed Rosie.
So many posts since I left yesterday…
I will try to post about everything I read in this one message:
\”Jewel….aren\’t you from FL? What part? May have a good looking guy for you. He is smart too!\” -Mary B.
Central Florida/Orlando area… smart is good… and a refreshing break from some of these imbeciles.
fakeadjusterjoe-
\”Give it up, the CEO Mr. Rust, put out a memo that employees were to defend the company to death. One of the agents posted it here.\”
Did I miss that post? Or is this something else you made up?
\”The agency and clerical (mostly clerical like Jewel, Mary B., David, and Mark) staff of State Farm are searching the internet for message boards to defend the mother company.\”
Well, now we see why we think Joe is such an idiot. He doesn\’t even have all the facts, yet Mary, David, Mark and I all work for SF. He probably think we work in the same office. ::yells to the crew:: \”Hey you guys! Let\’s go out for beers after work so we can talk about and laugh at Joe! No, Joe, it\’s okay, after you finish mopping you can come too. Sure, you can make fun of yourself. No problem!\”
Linda-
\”Hey Jewel if the bus crashes while you all are drinking and driving I just want everyone to know that is was Bushs fault\”
OK, now grab your sister Rosie so the bus can leave. ;) p.s. to not rosie- that post was too funny :)
waiting breathlessly-
Your response about lawyers knowing right from wrong was GREAT!!! I wait breathlessly (hopefully Donnie and Joe do too) for your next great posting. :)
Donnie-
\”What happened to debating the facts?\”
You brought up the alleged fact you\’re an attorney. Can we debate that? I think you\’re lying. You\’re not really an attorney. Did you think you would impress us? I know plenty of stupid lawyers though, so maybe you really are one. I really don\’t have all the facts though. Sorry, no jumping to conclusions on this one.
\”I don\’t know how apologists for the insurance industry (whether or not you consider yourself to be one) sleep at night. Wake up!\”
How can we sleep if you keep trying to wake us up? Shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
ACE-
If you\’re good looking, I will have your screening procedure commence at noon.
Thanks almost everyone! (Yes, I have too much free time on my hands today)
OK, seriously.. for all of you on here with a brain… this is where Joe and Donnie stop reading :)
Anyway, I was reading my local paper last night (Central Florida) and I came across this same article. However, I found one thing very interesting. The article is written by Michael Kunzelman… However, in MY newspaper this little, tiny piece of the article was missing.
\”Kochan, in an interview, said plaintiffs\’ attorneys are taking the e-mails out of context. King \”just felt like we weren\’t doing a technically accurate job,\’\’ but she wasn\’t pressuring Forensic to change conclusions so that claims could be denied, Kochan said.\”
Hmm… that changes the article quite a bit, doesn\’t it? This is why I don\’t always believe the media when they \”report the facts\”. What crap! This is also why I don\’t put much stock into what they say about big companies (and for the 1000th time I am not saying I am an INS CO supporter, Joe/Donnie… I know you asked someone to read this to you).
It\’s nice to know they left out a quote like that because they only had limited space. They should have just taken out all the verbs in the article and then we could have had a posting like we\’d get from Joe! :)
Please do not refer to me as Rosie\’s sister. I asked where you were from and might have a good looking smart guy for you. However, he is not in the same area as you and not interested in a move.
I guess I have too much time on my hands too but I just loved all the posts. Too bad Rosie did not join in.
I have been following the posts yesterday and this morning, mostly for entertainment value. I like to see opinions, debate and schoolyard bullying. However, in reading Donnie\’s latest post, I just have to jump in.
Donnie states… \”I know it is hard for many to say anything nice about lawyers, but the reputation is generally unwarranted.\”
Please substitute insurance carriers for the word lawyers. There are some carriers that deserve the bad rep they have just as there are many lawyers that deserve it. It is unfair to paint the entire insurance industry with the same brush. I work for an insurance company that pays the claims that are owed, and disputes the claims that are not owed. Do we get it wrong sometimes? Yes. Do we make mistakes sometimes? Yes. Are we human? Yes? How do I sleep at night? Very well thank you!
Donnie\’s next quote…\”A few bad apples get all the media attention.\” Isn\’t that what is going on with State Farm and Allstate right now?
I am not here to defend State Farm. If they are not paying claims they owe, and if they had engineers change reports and if they did all that has been alleged, they should be hung.
Another caveat…the article indicates the e-mails in dispute are open to different interpretation. How exactly were they meant? The interpretation will be up to a jury. Remember, perception IS reality.
Everyone, have a great Friday!
\”Please do not refer to me as Rosie\’s sister.\”
I\’m sorry; I was kidding. I guess, in retrospect, it was a greater insult than I meant it to be. :(
Well, how old is he? I might be interested in a move if he is smart AND good looking. :)
That\’s ok Jewell.
He is 37 and kind of looks like Jeff Foxworthy with blondish hair.
Ah. New kids on the block. Of course. I was correct about regretting asking this.
Here is my last post. Enjoy the rest of the day:
Sam-
I think there is a lot of validity to your points. My attack is on the higher ups at SF and AS who have systematically instituted procedures to frustrate valid claims in order to frustrate customers and increase the bottom line.
Jewel-
You might be smart, but we would never know. Give an opinion on the topic! Stop trying to mask your perceived lack of inteligence and think out an opinion of your own. Give us a well reasoned opinion, not the gibberish you continually post. You seem to be afraid to say anything relevant at all. Your posts belong in an aol chat room for 11 year old school girls.
Donnie-
Ok, you\’re a bona fide moron. Did you read \”A very serious posting\”? CAN YOU READ?
I gave an opinion there. Now, kindly shut up with your stupid remarks before you give ALL lawyers an even worse reputation than they already have… And you would never know if I am smart because you lack the skills necessary to deduce if someone is smart. Or, because, to you, everyone who can count higher than you (higher than 5) is s-m-r-t smrt. (Hey Homer!)
\”Your posts belong in an aol chat room for 11 year old school girls.\” Yeah and I have seen you in chat rooms looking for 11 year old girls. What\’s your point?
Oh, yeah and I\’m with whoever said they liked your brother Marky Mark better. He\’s much better looking than you. :)
You go girl! I am laughing so hard about the 11 year old girl chat room. This has been the best round of postings ever.
Yeah, I hope for his sake he has an 11 year old daughter.
Otherwise……..
I agree Linda. No other thread has made me laugh so hard I cried. Everyone on here has made me laugh at some point.
Donnie and Joe- You made me laugh with your inability to comprehend the English language (ie: people\’s posts).
To everyone else: Your posts have been much appreciated (and hysterical!).
OK, Actuary, now it\’s your turn to read between the lines and tell everyone what I actually meant by this post. ;)
\”Yeah, I hope for his sake he has an 11 year old daughter.\”
I think we have entered a no win situation. You hope, for his sake, he has an 11 year old daughter. Meanwhile, I hope, for the sake of this country, that he has no kids. He would be in charge of teaching them morals and values. Ouch! That\’s scary.
Jewel-
That is not an opinion on this topic. It is you critiquing the media and how you perceive the editorial process. Insurance apologist 101: if you don\’t like the article, attack the author.
I\’ll give you a 15th try: do you have an opinion relative to how SF handled the Katrina claims?
Donnie:
Give up man. They have zero answers and are as you say, State Farm apologists. They wil not discuss the issues. Facts go over their heads at the speed of light.
I do give up. Jewel – good luck with your claim against SF when your trailer is wrecked by Hurricane Ed.
\”Insurance apologist 101: if you don\’t like the article, attack the author.\”
Wow, you\’re getting dumber and dumber with each posting. Where did I attack the author?
How do you expect someone to have a debate with you when you make things up?
For the 15th time, I don\’t have enough information to voice an opinion on how they handled the Katrina claims. I\’m not an idiot who makes assumptions. That\’s your job (oh and that fake attorney thing you have going on).
If you are forcing me to choose a side, I won\’t do so. I will say that some claims were probably handled properly. Some were probably handled improperly.
Happy now? Wait, I know you won\’t be happy until I agree with you. Sorry, I won\’t become a moron just to suit you.
Thanks though!
\”I do give up. Jewel – good luck with your claim against SF when your trailer is wrecked by Hurricane Ed.\”
OK, so now I work for SF and live in a trailer?
I bet my house is nicer than yours ;)
Again, one can\’t have an intellectual debate with a jerk who makes things up or makes assumptions. Why don\’t you just call me fat and ugly too?
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2007/04/06/78543.htm
OK, everyone. I have something important to say! Put down your coffee and listen up ;)
On these threads, the intelligent ones TRY to have a logical, thoughtful debate. Unfortunately, we are soon joined by a bunch of idiots. In our frustration, we say witty, funny and semi-rude things. I mean, if our points aren\’t getting through the thick skulls, might as well inject the thread with some humor.
My point is this:
Go to the link above and read the response left by Morgan. See how his/her \”intellectual\” response closely mirrors our responses when WE are frustrated. Then you will see the perfect example of \”pot… meet kettle\”.
Boo hoo Jewel. Good luck dealing with SF when you mansion gets totalled by Hurricane Ed.
As for all of your idiotic comments, why would someone lie about being a trial lawyer on this site? Take your head out of your (fat? you said it) a** before you post. Think about the stupid things you write before you hit send and maybe you won\’t post so many dumb comments.
did you mother drop you on your head as a small child?
Why don\’t you keep the insults to a minimum and discuss the topic at hand?
Why do you have so much free time to post on here? Did all your clients fire you?
I did post a response to you about the topic, but of course, you ignored it.
Don\’t ask me a question if you are going to ignore my answer.
P.S. No one wants you to post here, except Joe. And no one wants HIM to post here.*
*save the entertainment value
You don\’t want to have a discussion here. Remember me when the sh*t hits the fan and SF gets nailed to the cross for this. Then ask yourself if it is time to learn to think for yourself or to continue regurgitating sound bites fed to you by the insurance pr firms.
I will let you have the last word.
So, go ahead and post after me.
I tried to have a discussion with you, but you\’re not smart enough to follow… My mommy always told me to help those less fortunate. I always thought she was talking about money. Apparently, she meant intelligence as well.
Again, post after me so that you can have the last (no matter how stupid!) word.
Only an hour 1/2 left to go until my screening. Oh boy, this is going to be great!
Okay, Donnie is off the bus for the pizza and beer run.
Donnie, Jewell never said she was pro State Farm. I believe that insurance companies will try to screw their insured\’s at some point either by denying coverage or reducing the amount paid. Do I think every claim is handled in this matter, no. I think that most adjusters tried to settle the claims in a fair and ethical manner. Obviously, some were not.
I don\’t care what profession you work in, insurance, legal, medical, whatever, you will always have someone doing something unethical, illegal, unscrupulous. There is always a bad apple in the bunch somewhere.
Life goes on. Maybe you and Adjusterjoe should get one.
there is an over abundance of people with no knowledge of the subject matter who wish to espouse their views. Jewel, it must be a slow day at the cafe where you wait tables. You might start looking for a job as it appears that the cafe will go under. It is painfully obvious you have no knowledge of the insurance industry, much less claims. I am sorry you never found out what ajudication means. With you not being able to compehend the simnplest of terms, i know your life must be hard. Do you get WIC and SSI? You might want to check to see if section 8 applys to trailers. You might want to apply. I know you have problems with understanding and you probably could get disability checks also.
To Jewell, Donnie, adjusterjoe et al:
This has been a classic posting! If ever I could have imagined a posting showing just where we, as a nation, this is it. We started with a difference of opinion on something that has effected us all, even in Calif and it has degenerated into name calling and insults with no regard to the original discussion. Rush Limbaugh was the first to exploit this type of rhetoric and he succeeded so well at it that it has been imitated to the point where there is no consensus of opinion anymore. We just yell and shout and rant and rave. The extremists, of course, are easy to spot-Rosie, Donnie, Adjusterjoe, because they yell so loud all reason is drowned out. Our politicians reflect our nations morals and they do not go on the air unless they wish to say something negative about people who disagree with them. Look at the progression of postings on this site. It has degenerated into name calling and insults. This is exactly what is happening with our politicians and leaders. They do not care what is right or wrong. They are content to try to outshout their opponents and destroy the character of their opponents.
I said I would let Donnie have the lost word. But I am not addressing this to Donnie (and he hasn\’t posted his last word yet).
I see what you\’re saying. I also know that any time I have answered a question for Donnie or Joe, they don\’t agree with my answer and start insulting me (or this could apply to others on this board). So, I give it right back to them (only better)… If they are not going to pay attention when I respond to them, what is the point? There have been many times where people have posted responses to them in plain English only to have their posts ignored. This allows Donnie and Joe to feel better about insulting us. We give it a try (answering the questions, talking about the post) and are constantly insulted by those who don\’t agree. There have also been postings by those who don\’t agree but are level headed and non-inflammatory. Guess I\’ve just been rubbed the wrong way by idiots too many times to have the patience to deal with undeserved rudeness.
By the way, this isn\’t the first thread I have posted on… I find these people everywhere. The ones who are first to sling insults are the ones you can\’t debate with…
It is partly as you say, but the greater problem is the dumbing down of our society into people like Jewel who don\’t have a clue. This makes the frustration level high for those of us that are competent and knowledgable in our profession. Ignorance and blind support displayed by Jewel hurts our industry. In this situation, we have an insurance company that has done as it routinely does, play by their own rules without regards to the peoples lives they affect, all fo rthe sake of bottom line dollars. As I have stated before, there is a solution for disputes like this (the ocurts) and State Farm has lost and they are now scrambling to settle cases which should have been settled over 18 months ago. As long as the apologists and blind supporters of wrongdoing (Jewel, Linda, Mark, Dale, etc) by our industry are out there, insurance companies will continue to get a bad rap.
You have a crush on me don\’t you? Because I am witty, intelligent and funny.
Sorry, but I don\’t date ignorant jerks.
:(
P.S. I am still waiting for your man Donnie to post the last word.
I agree with joe and waiting. Jewel, if you go back and read the postings, you will see I kept trying to discuss SF and you, and others like you, started all of the smoke screen name calling. You have either a terribly selective or malfunctioning memory.
I really do hope you never need to file a claim against SF after a life altering event. When someone who is down and thinks they are \’insured\’ gets denial after denial it is truly disheartening. In my experience, that is the only way someone like Jewel will ever see the light.
As usual no reponse to the post, only name calling by Jewel.
and the beat goes on.
explain the difference between resolving a case through mediation and ajudication to Jewel. She thinks that the judge ordering mediation (and an agreement being reached in that process) is the same thing as hearing the case and handing down a written ruling. Do not forget to mention the possible adverse effect a written ruling would have versus a settlement agreement without an admission of guilt. As stated before, she has difficulty understanding the simplest of issues.
How did the screening go? Or are you still getting felt up by the good hands people?
Your agenda is clear. You are one of the apologist/blind supporters.
AdjusterJoe…..I guess you left the other posting since you couldn\’t prove your point and tried to come over to this one..I see Jewel (1 \”L\” incase your real slooow at learning) has been keeping you on your toes. I presented you with a question regarding slab cases that I know you won\’t answer except with another question back to me, but good luck….your really in a loose/loose situation.
As we all know, mediation is a form of alternative dispute resolution that aims to assist two (or more) disputants in reaching an agreement. The key component of mediation is that whether an agreement is reached, and what that agreement, if any, is, is determined by the parties themselves rather than being imposed by a third party. Also, adjusterjoe, we can agree that \”ajudication\” is not word. Adjudication, however, is the legal process by which an arbiter or judge reviews evidence and argumentation including legal reasoning set forth by opposing parties or litigants to come to a decision which determines rights and obligations between the parties involved. Three types of disputes are resolved through adjudication:
Disputes between private parties, such as individuals or corporations.
Disputes between private parties and public officials.
Disputes between public officials or public bodies
That being said, Jewel never mentioned either one so what, pray tell are you talking about? Making things up to prove your point but failing miserably. Brilliant!
classy heading. Jewel, under another thread, stated that mediation is a case which has been ajudicated. The one thing you left out was the benefit for one party (State Farm) to settle in mediation versus having the case ajudicated and having a written record of their loss and additional jurisprudence against them. As they already have no jurisprudence in their favor in slab cases from Katrina, they are cutting their losses and running.
glad to see you cannot respond when the FACTS do not fit your little distorted world view. Please tell how adjudication and mediation are the same as Jewel says they are. Will you backtrack on your post to protect Jewel or admit she does not have a clue?
It was wonderful. Thanks for asking. Still getting felt \”down\” by the Good Hands People. God love\’em!! This thread has got to be the longest in IJ history.
Any word from Rosie, yet? I saw her (1)post yesterday on the cows but then she disappeared. She didn\’t sound like she was up for it.
Have not seen Rosie post anything today either. Like she said yesterday, she was not in the mooooooood.
Hey, Jewel where are you? I figured you would have been back in the fight hours ago.
Dear Sir,
I humbly apologize for not responding within the 12 minute window you deemed appropriate. I was having lunch and enjoying a nice ham sandwich on rye. I also had a pickle. I pickle they. I am not sure who said adjudication and mediation are the same thing or where they said it. Please be so kind as to provide the link where Jewel said that adjudication and mediation are the same thing so then I can click the link and read it and then respond in kind. Hopefully you will allow me more than 12 minutes this time and if not perhaps an adjustment to one\’s patience should be considered. Thank you in advance for providing the link to prove your point that I\’m guessing does not exist.
ok, everyone-time to get to work. i got to finish so i can get a round of golf in. i read about the worst golf foresome in history and thought i would let you know who they are. Monica Lowinsky, OJ Simpson, Ted Kennedy, and Bill Clinton. Monica is a hooker, OJ is a slicer, Teddy boy can’t drive over water, and Bill can’t remember what hole he played last.
Have a nice day.
This thread officially just jumped the shark. Does ham sandwich even know what we are talking about? Does anyone even remember this is about the fraudulant practices of an insurer\’s claims practices in the midst of a national disaster? Or was that not proven yet? Whoever thinks \’all the facts are not out yet\’ can save us that opinion which really isn\’t an opinion at all.
It\’s probably in the same post that actuary claimed jewel was talking about jews and african americans. I haven\’t been able to find that one either.
Wait….Since I\’m defending Jewel does that mean I work for SF now? I wasn\’t clear on how wide the SF brush was.
Thanks. :-)
Just spotted Rosie on the Nationals regarding Bush. She is on a sense of humor roll this week.
SHE\’S ON TODAY\’S ARTICLES. FIRST ARTICLE. CAN\’T MISS IT…IT HAS BUSH IN THE TITLE.
Jewel\’s words speaking about the mediated cases. I know you will try to spin it to say that is not what she is saying but it is exactly what she said.
Here they are:
If 38 cases have been settled and you keep stating the ones State Farm denied were slab cases, then why did you say only 4 – 6 cases have been adjudicated by the courts? Now are you saying that all the claims SF denied were slab cases? Or just the 4 – 6 that have been settled? What happened to the 32 – 34 other cases?
Jewel is just plain dumb and does not have a clue.
I have her safely in one of my secret bunkers so we can, shall we say, change her way of viewing things; we want to make her kinder and gentler.
You want to make her kinder and gentler?
Then why is Cheney in charge of that? :-)
Nearly one out of every five customers considers switching insurance companies after a collision claim, according to a new the J.D. Power study
is right….. Hancock Counties Mississipp
Posted On: April 22, 2007, 12:23 pm CDT
Posted By: Melanie / History. GED
Comment:
Everybody know,s The plaintiffs have alleged that\” Many hundreds , if not thousands, of individuals and / or entities have asserted Claims or have potential claims \” Against State Farm. Neither the plaintiffs nor State Farm has given the court any information from which the Court can determine with any reasonable degree of certainty how many policyholders are with in the proposed class or how many policyholders have each
IMPORTANT—I accidentally put the wrong 800 number in the last posting. The number should be 800-737-8587. Call and tell your story . Stop State Farm
Subject: RE: More Facts about State Farm
Posted On: April 12, 2007, 5:22 pm CDT
Posted By: Fact Finder
Comment:
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust Subject: RE: More Facts about State Farm
Posted On: April 12, 2007, 5:22 pm CDT
Posted By: Fact Finder
Comment:
Here is an example of the mentality of the executives at State Farm. State Farm sued two of its agents and then had to pay both ends of the lawsuit when the agents filed claims for defense with State Farm (apparently State Farm didn\’t understand their own policy contracts). The trial lasted 6 weeks at a cost of approximately $6,000,000 ($2,000,000 for defense costs and $4,000,000 for State Farm\’s costs)and the jury found in favor of the agents ($12,600,000) and nothing for State Farm. The case #82819 in Mendocino County, California State Farm v Wier. State Farm has continued to pursue this litigation and now put themselves in a bad faith situation by refusing to pay during the appeal and review process and for suing the agents again in another jurisdiction (Sonoma County Case#234700). These are the same executives that gave themselves raises this year 82% for the CEO Ed Rust
Consider how easy it is to commit insurance fraud. Even insurance textbooks
admit that policies are unread and unreadable. According to Vaughan and Vaughan,
Fundamentals of Risk and Insurance (8th edition): \”In most cases, the customer
is asked to purchase a product in which he or she becomes a party to a contract
that he or she has not read nor would understand if it were read.\” That is
almost an open invitation to fraud. When selling the contract or when paying
claims under it, insurance personnel know that the buyer or claimant may be at
their mercy. Claims adjusters, anxious to make a record by denying claims, have
a field day. Insurance agents, anxious to earn commissions, can also join the
field day in puffing and misrepresenting policies.
Consider also the strength and weaknesses of the parties. On the one hand, you
have an insurance company, with armies of experts and boxcars full of money. On
the other hand, you have a claimant, who may not be well advised, who knows
little about insurance or the policy in question, and who can\’t afford legal
battles and long delays. But to an insurance company, a legal battle is just
another routine cost of doing business. It has lawyers in house and all over its
operating territory. If it denies a claim, it\’s can be in a win-win situation.
There\’s a good chance the claimant will give up and go away. Even if the
claimant protests and appeals to higher levels of management or goes to the
state insurance commissioner, the insurance company can then pay and has the
benefit of the claimant\’s money sitting in the bank in the meantime. Even if the
claimant hires a lawyer and sues, the insurer can then settle. Only in
exceptional cases (when an attorney takes the case, proves that the insurance
company acted in bad faith, and wins an award of punitive damages for the
claimant), improper decisions by the company can be profitable for the company.