Third quarter reporting is going to be a train wreck. Investment losses associated with companies holdings in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with stock & bond losses are going to be huge. The effects will be interesting on the entire industry.
Stop sending out over-testeroned, under-informed, naive about their real future young men and women to undercut everyone’s sensible pricing.
Fire all the middle managers in the brokerage houses. Put the big shot upper management on the street and see if they can make it. They mostly got there by marriage or inheritance anyway–can they do the work they require of others. I think not!
Deservingly so!
You forget how these idiots screwed themselves in the markets back in the early 80’s.History repeats itself and as I said robbing Peter to pay Paul.
There is no wrong there is no right only data to be manipulated and Wall Street has screwed everyone!
Why isn’t the National Association of Reators and the Bank peoperty aprraisers being held accountable for this crisis they are most to blame for it?
Selling ’00k homes to dummy’s for 250k is quite a profitable business.I think they should have some accountability but no let’s just piss more money into the wind!
And THIS is only what they admit to. What will they say during their 3rd Quarter announcements? I’m sure it will only be bits of where they are really heading?
— Property and casualty insurer Cincinnati Financial Corp. said Tuesday its 2008 results will be hurt by investments in troubled financial institutions Lehman Brothers, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.
The company said it is making “modest revisions” to its full-year outlook as a consequence of recent events, including the economy’s decline. It said it will disclose more specifics at an investor conference later this week and at investor meetings next week.
Full-year investment income is now expected to decline more than 10 percent from 2007, the company said.
President and CEO Kenneth Stecher also said in the statement that continued pressure on the economy and insurance prices is weighing on its property and casualty business. He said the company’s earlier estimate that full-year 2008 premiums would decline no more than 5 percent now appears overly optimistic, although he did not provide a new estimate.
— so, sharply declining investment income, lower than expected premium volume or growth, storm losses that are the worst in 5 years (don’t forget the $500 mill in Ohio storms 2 weeks ago). Life is not good if you’re an Ohio regional these days. Can Lib Mutual pull the trigger again, so soon after being downgraded for their Safeco acquisition?
Lots of companies with problems – and this post doesn’t include the downgrade of financial condition of Liberty Mutual, and the service problems and confusion that will ensue as they integrate their Safeco acquisition.
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Shares of State Auto Financial Corp. fell sharply Monday after an analyst downgraded the insurance company’s stock, calling it overpriced after steep gains last week.
Cincinnati, which still holds securities of American International Group Inc worth about $81 million as of September 15, sees an impairment charge of about $50 million from securities related to the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Cincinnati said it had sold most of the $24 million of Lehman preferred stock and debt securities held at June 30, and expects to take a related charge of $9 million in third quarter.
United Fire & Casualty Co. (UFCS) projected up to $20 million in third-quarter pretax losses from hurricanes Gustav and Ike and added a default by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (LEHMQ) would cut earnings by another $4 million.
Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services it has lowered its outlook on Selective Insurance Group Inc. and its subsidiaries to negative from stable, citing concerns that recent profitability has not been as strong as the ratings agency expected at the current rating level, as well as the decline in capital adequacy since the end of 2006 and relative to peers.
Sherlock, you forgot snot nosed, still wet behind the ears, won’t listen to anyone, know better than everyone else jerks that can’t learn from what happened before…..
Please call your congress representative and plead with them NOT to vote for the bailout. I want to see many of these insurance carriers sink with the banks they’re invested in! BYE-BYE! They’re as guilty as the greedy bankers are.
Cincinnati has been taking insurance premiums, and sinking the dollars into risky investments. I don’t feel a bit sorry for them, and hope that they sink along with all of the irresponsible banks! Bring some stability back to “our” insurance market, and let the likes of Cincy, HGIC, and State Auto die with their investments.
Seems to me the people not making their mortgage payments started this snowball. They signed the mortgage contract & took their chances on what might happen. Now too many are defaulting. Yes I know a lot of banks underwriting rules became to lax, but as any industry rate of return starts to rise, investors will put their money there.
about 4-5 months ago, he predicted this demise in the industry and all of the problems the insurance industry was headed for. In fact, I think he also was intimate with some details regarding the Wisconsin and Iowa regionals? He also predicted 2-3 significant acquistions or mergers before the end of the year. We’ve had Philadelphia acquired – who is next? There are still a lot of rumors out there. What do you know MarketWatcher?
Third quarter reporting is going to be a train wreck. Investment losses associated with companies holdings in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with stock & bond losses are going to be huge. The effects will be interesting on the entire industry.
Soft market pricing won’t help either.
Maybe P&C insurers could start charging rates that will help withstand the current climate. It might help….ya think?
been through 2 hard markets – both were precipitated by the stock market tanking – fasten your seat belts, its going to be a bumpy ride!
Stop sending out over-testeroned, under-informed, naive about their real future young men and women to undercut everyone’s sensible pricing.
Fire all the middle managers in the brokerage houses. Put the big shot upper management on the street and see if they can make it. They mostly got there by marriage or inheritance anyway–can they do the work they require of others. I think not!
Where did all the money go when when things were good? Don’t insurance companies save for a rainy day?
These companies just shifted the money from one place to the other to keep a float!
Deservingly so!
You forget how these idiots screwed themselves in the markets back in the early 80’s.History repeats itself and as I said robbing Peter to pay Paul.
There is no wrong there is no right only data to be manipulated and Wall Street has screwed everyone!
Why isn’t the National Association of Reators and the Bank peoperty aprraisers being held accountable for this crisis they are most to blame for it?
Selling ’00k homes to dummy’s for 250k is quite a profitable business.I think they should have some accountability but no let’s just piss more money into the wind!
There go the thumbs again.That last post should read 100k homes.The rest of the typos well you get the point.
It was invested in Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac and the like; investments that were once thought and believed to be safe and secure.
do you think maybe this is the year my income does not drop another 10% ?.
After all these years in the business I feel a bit like an insurance *****, and you are all pimps, demanding more from me and paying me less.
And THIS is only what they admit to. What will they say during their 3rd Quarter announcements? I’m sure it will only be bits of where they are really heading?
— Property and casualty insurer Cincinnati Financial Corp. said Tuesday its 2008 results will be hurt by investments in troubled financial institutions Lehman Brothers, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.
The company said it is making “modest revisions” to its full-year outlook as a consequence of recent events, including the economy’s decline. It said it will disclose more specifics at an investor conference later this week and at investor meetings next week.
Full-year investment income is now expected to decline more than 10 percent from 2007, the company said.
President and CEO Kenneth Stecher also said in the statement that continued pressure on the economy and insurance prices is weighing on its property and casualty business. He said the company’s earlier estimate that full-year 2008 premiums would decline no more than 5 percent now appears overly optimistic, although he did not provide a new estimate.
— so, sharply declining investment income, lower than expected premium volume or growth, storm losses that are the worst in 5 years (don’t forget the $500 mill in Ohio storms 2 weeks ago). Life is not good if you’re an Ohio regional these days. Can Lib Mutual pull the trigger again, so soon after being downgraded for their Safeco acquisition?
Lots of companies with problems – and this post doesn’t include the downgrade of financial condition of Liberty Mutual, and the service problems and confusion that will ensue as they integrate their Safeco acquisition.
______________________
Shares of State Auto Financial Corp. fell sharply Monday after an analyst downgraded the insurance company’s stock, calling it overpriced after steep gains last week.
Cincinnati, which still holds securities of American International Group Inc worth about $81 million as of September 15, sees an impairment charge of about $50 million from securities related to the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Cincinnati said it had sold most of the $24 million of Lehman preferred stock and debt securities held at June 30, and expects to take a related charge of $9 million in third quarter.
United Fire & Casualty Co. (UFCS) projected up to $20 million in third-quarter pretax losses from hurricanes Gustav and Ike and added a default by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (LEHMQ) would cut earnings by another $4 million.
Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services it has lowered its outlook on Selective Insurance Group Inc. and its subsidiaries to negative from stable, citing concerns that recent profitability has not been as strong as the ratings agency expected at the current rating level, as well as the decline in capital adequacy since the end of 2006 and relative to peers.
He’s joking right?
Sherlock, you forgot snot nosed, still wet behind the ears, won’t listen to anyone, know better than everyone else jerks that can’t learn from what happened before…..
Please call your congress representative and plead with them NOT to vote for the bailout. I want to see many of these insurance carriers sink with the banks they’re invested in! BYE-BYE! They’re as guilty as the greedy bankers are.
Cincinnati has been taking insurance premiums, and sinking the dollars into risky investments. I don’t feel a bit sorry for them, and hope that they sink along with all of the irresponsible banks! Bring some stability back to “our” insurance market, and let the likes of Cincy, HGIC, and State Auto die with their investments.
Seems to me the people not making their mortgage payments started this snowball. They signed the mortgage contract & took their chances on what might happen. Now too many are defaulting. Yes I know a lot of banks underwriting rules became to lax, but as any industry rate of return starts to rise, investors will put their money there.
about 4-5 months ago, he predicted this demise in the industry and all of the problems the insurance industry was headed for. In fact, I think he also was intimate with some details regarding the Wisconsin and Iowa regionals? He also predicted 2-3 significant acquistions or mergers before the end of the year. We’ve had Philadelphia acquired – who is next? There are still a lot of rumors out there. What do you know MarketWatcher?