It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of hypocrites. Their “responsibility” commercials are a joke. Totally undisciplined, the will be a B+ company within 3 years.
…but there’s always a government bail-out for the big guys. Railroads, airlines, Wall Street, and now AIG; and maybe Liberty Mutual in the future. Where’s the bail-out for the organization in the middle or at the bottom or the consumer who ends up paying for it all??
They are helping me lead a safer more secure life. Check out the results being brought in for personal markets. Responsible people gravitate to this company.
No worries guys, I guarantee you Liberty will be around long after the dust settles. As to insuder you sound like a disgruntled insider. As to discipline you must be joking Liberty Mutual has shown one of the most disciplined approaches on commercial insurane not buying market share like competitors. If you are looking for the government bailout money go look at the publicly traded carriers
It is capitalism when things are good and now I think we shall be socialists when things are bad. Where is the dis- incentive to be a good steward? Any company traded on the exchange has the risks borne by the stockholders not the taxpayers. One more freedom being diluted. And all of this is who’s fault? No political responses needed.
Liberty Mutual is not traded on an exchange. It is a mutual insurance company. Hence the name Liberty MUTUAL. That means not a public company, not stock, not traded.
Liberty does have a number of flack-specialists assigned to IJ and similar sites to keep the lid on their problems with phony testimonials as we see here.
Under-paying their children’s crusade workers comp adjusters leverages them to erode market discipline and destabilize and dumb down the entire market. And, transparency is a major issue with these mutual carriers, especially with those toxic securities lurking about. What did Tobias say: Self-perpetuating hierarchies accountable to no one?
Gee, Chubb just went through the last quarter, Hurricane Ike and all, with a $264 million profit. Which company do you think is better security for your clients?
What is that ethical conflict mentioned above? Direct writing does not allow the sales rep to do the best job for his client. If a sales rep, become an agent. If a buyer, get an agent. Duh!!
And don’t roll out that disgruntlement cliche. Employees often do know better than their companies, especially the criminal cliques that run so many of them. Disgruntle this!
I am well aware of the difference as I represent both kinds of companies. This was a general comment about all stock traded businesses and not mutual companies.
Quote of the day from a fund manager: ‘This is worse than a divorce… I’ve lost half of my net worth and I still have my wife.’
The bailout, a different perspective: Back in 1990, the US Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wit, numb nuts who couldn’t make money running a wh**re house and selling booze!
No truth to the fact that there’s less transparancy with Mutuals. That’s just an uninformed opinion.
Chubb showed positive 3rd quarter earnings, but they were also down signficantly and they’ve since revised their ’08 profit outlook.
There’s no reason to think this company would have any need to be bailed out. In fact, stacked up against other carrier’s 3rd quarter results (even with several of them getting cash infusions), they’re sitting in a relatively envious position.
Where is all this hate coming from with Liberty. They have a very large market through the Independent agents. As matter of fact they are larger on that side than the direct market. We have a large book with them and they have always did right by us. We have had several issues that they could have refused to pay but did the right thing. Everyone wants to relate every company to AIG. Remember AIG got in trouble from the investment side not the insurance!
Liberty did quite well in underwriting for this quarter. Historically they are a company that runs 110% loss ratio and makes a profit on investment income. This result is reversed. They still made an underwriting profit. Their danger sign will be if rates continue to drop. If they continue on the negative side for investments, then they would have trouble.
Aren’t they owned by a mutual holding company though? In the end, it’s just a way to get access to the capital market while maintaining the overall advantages of the mutual company. For example, Liberty isn’t registered with the SEC, and doesn’t file reports with them
Even mutual company information is public through the various insurance departments. Although they don’t have stockholders they still have a lot of information public from those and other sources. You make it sound as if being a mutual is a way to be secretive. Hardly.
“…and still reported positive, albeit slightly (lower), results in the quarter.”
Let’s see, $6 million is about 1 1/5% of $404 million. Yeah, I’d say that is just “slightly lower”… if I was the guy trying to explain why they had so much catastrophe exposure in the first place. Headed for a B+!
IF “rates” continue to drop? Are you kidding? I’m in the Midwest – the Land of Indiana…. and these whores stopped underwriting a looooooong time ago. I was looking at some notes from 2006, and we were lamenting that INDIANA (LIB MUTUAL) was starting to offer 50% credit in Illinois in late 2006. How long can they go? Indiana has been standing on the street corner in her fishnet stockings for more than 2 years, and just taking orders at whatever price sells. And the Independent Agent follows blindly. We’ll see what happens in 2009.
It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of hypocrites. Their “responsibility” commercials are a joke. Totally undisciplined, the will be a B+ company within 3 years.
…but there’s always a government bail-out for the big guys. Railroads, airlines, Wall Street, and now AIG; and maybe Liberty Mutual in the future. Where’s the bail-out for the organization in the middle or at the bottom or the consumer who ends up paying for it all??
B+ in three years. Fat chance.
They are helping me lead a safer more secure life. Check out the results being brought in for personal markets. Responsible people gravitate to this company.
No worries guys, I guarantee you Liberty will be around long after the dust settles. As to insuder you sound like a disgruntled insider. As to discipline you must be joking Liberty Mutual has shown one of the most disciplined approaches on commercial insurane not buying market share like competitors. If you are looking for the government bailout money go look at the publicly traded carriers
It is capitalism when things are good and now I think we shall be socialists when things are bad. Where is the dis- incentive to be a good steward? Any company traded on the exchange has the risks borne by the stockholders not the taxpayers. One more freedom being diluted. And all of this is who’s fault? No political responses needed.
Bluemax,
Liberty Mutual is not traded on an exchange. It is a mutual insurance company. Hence the name Liberty MUTUAL. That means not a public company, not stock, not traded.
Liberty does have a number of flack-specialists assigned to IJ and similar sites to keep the lid on their problems with phony testimonials as we see here.
Under-paying their children’s crusade workers comp adjusters leverages them to erode market discipline and destabilize and dumb down the entire market. And, transparency is a major issue with these mutual carriers, especially with those toxic securities lurking about. What did Tobias say: Self-perpetuating hierarchies accountable to no one?
Gee, Chubb just went through the last quarter, Hurricane Ike and all, with a $264 million profit. Which company do you think is better security for your clients?
What is that ethical conflict mentioned above? Direct writing does not allow the sales rep to do the best job for his client. If a sales rep, become an agent. If a buyer, get an agent. Duh!!
And don’t roll out that disgruntlement cliche. Employees often do know better than their companies, especially the criminal cliques that run so many of them. Disgruntle this!
I am well aware of the difference as I represent both kinds of companies. This was a general comment about all stock traded businesses and not mutual companies.
Quote of the day from a fund manager: ‘This is worse than a divorce… I’ve lost half of my net worth and I still have my wife.’
The bailout, a different perspective: Back in 1990, the US Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wit, numb nuts who couldn’t make money running a wh**re house and selling booze!
No truth to the fact that there’s less transparancy with Mutuals. That’s just an uninformed opinion.
Chubb showed positive 3rd quarter earnings, but they were also down signficantly and they’ve since revised their ’08 profit outlook.
There’s no reason to think this company would have any need to be bailed out. In fact, stacked up against other carrier’s 3rd quarter results (even with several of them getting cash infusions), they’re sitting in a relatively envious position.
The truth is out there…..
Where is all this hate coming from with Liberty. They have a very large market through the Independent agents. As matter of fact they are larger on that side than the direct market. We have a large book with them and they have always did right by us. We have had several issues that they could have refused to pay but did the right thing. Everyone wants to relate every company to AIG. Remember AIG got in trouble from the investment side not the insurance!
Liberty did quite well in underwriting for this quarter. Historically they are a company that runs 110% loss ratio and makes a profit on investment income. This result is reversed. They still made an underwriting profit. Their danger sign will be if rates continue to drop. If they continue on the negative side for investments, then they would have trouble.
Bill, you sound like a broken record.
I see you post the exact same comment every dang day. We get your point. Move on.
Joe,
FYI – Liberty is not a mutual – they are a stock company…it’s just not traded publicly…..Mutual is just the second 1/2 of their name.
J
Aren’t they owned by a mutual holding company though? In the end, it’s just a way to get access to the capital market while maintaining the overall advantages of the mutual company. For example, Liberty isn’t registered with the SEC, and doesn’t file reports with them
Even mutual company information is public through the various insurance departments. Although they don’t have stockholders they still have a lot of information public from those and other sources. You make it sound as if being a mutual is a way to be secretive. Hardly.
“…and still reported positive, albeit slightly (lower), results in the quarter.”
Let’s see, $6 million is about 1 1/5% of $404 million. Yeah, I’d say that is just “slightly lower”… if I was the guy trying to explain why they had so much catastrophe exposure in the first place. Headed for a B+!
IF “rates” continue to drop? Are you kidding? I’m in the Midwest – the Land of Indiana…. and these whores stopped underwriting a looooooong time ago. I was looking at some notes from 2006, and we were lamenting that INDIANA (LIB MUTUAL) was starting to offer 50% credit in Illinois in late 2006. How long can they go? Indiana has been standing on the street corner in her fishnet stockings for more than 2 years, and just taking orders at whatever price sells. And the Independent Agent follows blindly. We’ll see what happens in 2009.