why not put caps… if the trucking industry has that you work 80 hr wrk wk, and have to have 8 hrs rest btn every 10 hrs… why cud that not work here? truckers can get into a serious accident if deprived of sleep… this would apply to thinking of solutions for patients… either industry is tough when you talk about long hours of operation…but you have to think about safety about others!
putting on a cap is a good idea, but these are not truck drivers – There’s only so many to go around – And once they are on the job, some one has to treat the sick patients, and that can be costly.
If the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education were required to obtain medical treatment solely from these sleep-deprived med students, let’s see how long before the rules would be changed! I think it is ridiculous to put a human being through that as “a right of passage.”
well, in most cases either 1 or 2 drivers per truck and there are millions of trucks on the road. no different, because we are short drivers as well. that vehicle has to deliver it’s load recepient. same w/the doctor treating a patient. if you have to change a doctor during treatment, you should be able to. if things are documented. in the trucking industry we do this as well, when we swap trailers to keep the goods moving.
the thing is they’re doing this to residents, but once they’re out in the industry they’re not pulling those hours. They transfer the patient to the doc coming on shift and go home unless they’re in the middle of surgery. and let’s be real, more than 1/2 these guys graduated with a c average, you have to pay attention to what’s going on and ask questions. Otherwise, you’re at their mercy.
i think the analogy of a trucker is revelant. think of this, a death can be a death no matter where it happens. both of these occupations are long hours. i know i used to drive a truck for 7 yrs otr. the trucking industry pushes millions of goods to get from one place to another. remember that some of that includes bringing items to the hospital. but when you think about the millions of trucks on the road, how many doctors are there? today we still don’t have enough truck drivers to move goods across the roads of america. when you in a rush hour traffic, have you looked around to see how many truckers there are? think about what could happen if he fell asleep? how many lives would be affected? same with the doctor, he affects one life at a time. in many cases, he handles quite a few patients, but again, only going to one of them at a time. he’s not handling them all like a group therapy.
Wudchuck, I see where you’re coming from and I agree with you. The analogy holds – both professions can endanger others’ lives but only one actually requires them to be rested while the other works them until somebody dies. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for putting interns and residents through the kinds of hours they are put through. It comprimises patient care and you have to wonder how much the doctor will retain when in a sleep-deprived state – since what the doctor is supposed to be doing is learning.
As for how they did in med school, what do you call the person who finished last in med school? Answer: Doctor.
I guess neurologists, scientists, psychologists, researchers and DOCTORS spend all this time and money on studies to feed us medical mumbo-jumbo about how the brain requires time to rejuvenate neurons in order to maintain normal functionality just for snits and giggles right? (Oh but wait… everyone has 110 hours a week to work on that [24 x 7 = 168 -110 = 58 hours left to live… Lets see now, I’ll be generous and give them 10 minutes a day to shower, 90 minutes to get in three square meals (you don’t want them fainting from malnutrition) 15 minutes a day for pee breaks, an average of 30 minutes each way to and from the hospital – maybe 3 times a week if they aren’t living there 100% of the time (we wouldn’t want them to get that cozy in the break room) …that takes up… another 16 hours for a whopping 42 hours for sleep over 7 days…] Yeah, I can see how they can be so efficient and smart on just about 5 hours a day… Oh yeah, I forgot – they don’t have a life for 10 years so they don’t do another thing all week long except eat-sleep and work… (doubt it..)
I’m with Wudchuck – Whether you’re wielding a scalpel or a 35,000 lb rolling sledgehammer – When you screw up – someone is going to get hurt…
Maybe if they were on a normal schedule and learned the right way – the world would be all puppies and kittens – and no one would sue the pants off the doctors when they make a mistake and the insurance companies wouldn’t have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for it – sleep deprived or not – there is only so much the human body can withstand.
well, you know, that it’s not a matter of how many years of schooling. yes, we require a lot for those going to become doctors. i sometimes wonder why we have so many lawyers with long years in school, but have little common sense when it comes to handling cases – only to get rich of any case. any job requires some intelligence, use of the brain happens everyday.
example, is in va, where there turned out to be bad welds and then the storage tank came apart and spilt millions of gallons of toxic chemicals. turns out, that this company has 3 other tanks and they also have bad welds. oh my! how long will it take for those welds to cause danger! um..um..
we all need breaks. we all need sleep. if this industry does not wakeup and see that the other industries understand that, then more MALPRATICE!
why not put caps… if the trucking industry has that you work 80 hr wrk wk, and have to have 8 hrs rest btn every 10 hrs… why cud that not work here? truckers can get into a serious accident if deprived of sleep… this would apply to thinking of solutions for patients… either industry is tough when you talk about long hours of operation…but you have to think about safety about others!
putting on a cap is a good idea, but these are not truck drivers – There’s only so many to go around – And once they are on the job, some one has to treat the sick patients, and that can be costly.
That’s like saying that you want the doctor that got a C+ in all their classes taking care of you. I prefer the A+ doctor who is awake and alert.
If the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education were required to obtain medical treatment solely from these sleep-deprived med students, let’s see how long before the rules would be changed! I think it is ridiculous to put a human being through that as “a right of passage.”
well, in most cases either 1 or 2 drivers per truck and there are millions of trucks on the road. no different, because we are short drivers as well. that vehicle has to deliver it’s load recepient. same w/the doctor treating a patient. if you have to change a doctor during treatment, you should be able to. if things are documented. in the trucking industry we do this as well, when we swap trailers to keep the goods moving.
Yea, your right woodchuck, my bad, truck drivers and doctors and basically the same thing, that’s a good analogy.
Maybe the doctors should pullover on the interstate every now and then for an inspection, would that make you happy wudchuck?
the thing is they’re doing this to residents, but once they’re out in the industry they’re not pulling those hours. They transfer the patient to the doc coming on shift and go home unless they’re in the middle of surgery. and let’s be real, more than 1/2 these guys graduated with a c average, you have to pay attention to what’s going on and ask questions. Otherwise, you’re at their mercy.
i think the analogy of a trucker is revelant. think of this, a death can be a death no matter where it happens. both of these occupations are long hours. i know i used to drive a truck for 7 yrs otr. the trucking industry pushes millions of goods to get from one place to another. remember that some of that includes bringing items to the hospital. but when you think about the millions of trucks on the road, how many doctors are there? today we still don’t have enough truck drivers to move goods across the roads of america. when you in a rush hour traffic, have you looked around to see how many truckers there are? think about what could happen if he fell asleep? how many lives would be affected? same with the doctor, he affects one life at a time. in many cases, he handles quite a few patients, but again, only going to one of them at a time. he’s not handling them all like a group therapy.
Pull over and cough?
Wudchuck, I see where you’re coming from and I agree with you. The analogy holds – both professions can endanger others’ lives but only one actually requires them to be rested while the other works them until somebody dies. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for putting interns and residents through the kinds of hours they are put through. It comprimises patient care and you have to wonder how much the doctor will retain when in a sleep-deprived state – since what the doctor is supposed to be doing is learning.
As for how they did in med school, what do you call the person who finished last in med school? Answer: Doctor.
One little difference – One is replaceable – the other is not –
Hint: it takes a little bit more education to be a doctor –
Duh, thats what this is all about – Doctors have to learn on the job and they are in higher demand.
I guess neurologists, scientists, psychologists, researchers and DOCTORS spend all this time and money on studies to feed us medical mumbo-jumbo about how the brain requires time to rejuvenate neurons in order to maintain normal functionality just for snits and giggles right? (Oh but wait… everyone has 110 hours a week to work on that [24 x 7 = 168 -110 = 58 hours left to live… Lets see now, I’ll be generous and give them 10 minutes a day to shower, 90 minutes to get in three square meals (you don’t want them fainting from malnutrition) 15 minutes a day for pee breaks, an average of 30 minutes each way to and from the hospital – maybe 3 times a week if they aren’t living there 100% of the time (we wouldn’t want them to get that cozy in the break room) …that takes up… another 16 hours for a whopping 42 hours for sleep over 7 days…] Yeah, I can see how they can be so efficient and smart on just about 5 hours a day… Oh yeah, I forgot – they don’t have a life for 10 years so they don’t do another thing all week long except eat-sleep and work… (doubt it..)
I’m with Wudchuck – Whether you’re wielding a scalpel or a 35,000 lb rolling sledgehammer – When you screw up – someone is going to get hurt…
Maybe if they were on a normal schedule and learned the right way – the world would be all puppies and kittens – and no one would sue the pants off the doctors when they make a mistake and the insurance companies wouldn’t have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for it – sleep deprived or not – there is only so much the human body can withstand.
We all know why it’s called Medical “PRACTICE”
Thats fine Sand boy, but costs will go up – gauranteed.
well, you know, that it’s not a matter of how many years of schooling. yes, we require a lot for those going to become doctors. i sometimes wonder why we have so many lawyers with long years in school, but have little common sense when it comes to handling cases – only to get rich of any case. any job requires some intelligence, use of the brain happens everyday.
example, is in va, where there turned out to be bad welds and then the storage tank came apart and spilt millions of gallons of toxic chemicals. turns out, that this company has 3 other tanks and they also have bad welds. oh my! how long will it take for those welds to cause danger! um..um..
we all need breaks. we all need sleep. if this industry does not wakeup and see that the other industries understand that, then more MALPRATICE!