Survey: Carrier Size Matters But So Do Price, Underwriting and Service

By | July 20, 2009

  • July 20, 2009 at 12:58 pm
    Jeff the Cynic says:
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    It would be nice to know what the survey qualifications were for ‘super-regional’. Any of you survey respondents care to share?

  • July 21, 2009 at 1:33 am
    Bernard says:
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    Be a carrier that improves the likelihood of unsolicited referrals to agents and you will win in the long term. I’m writing a white paper on the subject and thought to chime in. Anyone interested in receiving a copy, visit http://www.evenbetteryet.com and use the ‘contact’ button to let me know.

    Bernard

  • July 20, 2009 at 1:36 am
    Old Bull says:
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    How can we make these carriers understand that in order be competitive they need to keep the files with the local underwriter and his boss? They don’t seem to have any trouble with renewal pricing except on those accounts that get audited or handed off to some faceless servicing unit that tries to make us comply with the company’s underwriting guidelines.

    We’re running out of companies that understand this business is about relationships, agency commissions, and cash flow, not individual account underwriting. We bring them a lot a premium, and if it wasn’t for those couple of big losses, our book would be profitable. If they treated 10 agents just like me with respect they’d make it up in volume.

    If it wasn’t for our underwriting friends’ continued hard luck in getting laid off and having to change companies we’d have no place to turn.

    I long for the good old days.

  • July 20, 2009 at 2:05 am
    cletus says:
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    “old School”…interesting. What ever happened to the concept of treating your markets fairly by giving them a chance to make a profit on the business written? It seems I just read agents rank delivering the low pricing needed by clients as the # 1 reason they place business where they do. The “old school” permitted underwriters to do a favor for an independent agent, then get a favor in return. Nowadays, there’s never a “payback” for a good uw just a choice between being the lowest price/losing your job or never writing any business at all. Unfortunately, it’s been proven over the years many times that you can’t build an entire book on “lowest price” and be profitable as an insurer in this business.

  • July 20, 2009 at 3:35 am
    Astro says:
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    AMEN!

    Couldn’t have said it better myself cletus

  • July 20, 2009 at 3:42 am
    Skip says:
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    One agent said the carrier’s decision to jump in and out of markets left the agency to move a large book of business. “They would jump into tougher risks and we would build a volume, then they would pull out of that class and we would have to move the entire volume. They
    were too hot and cold,” the agent wrote.

    Jenne said when an agency is forced to move an entire volume, that move can be “very disturbing” for the agency and its customers.
    Time and time again, agents said what’s most important is the customers’ need, Jenne said. “It keeps coming back to the customers’ requirements,” he said; the customers’ need for better pricing is what agents place first.

    Here’s whats wrong with that equation. Notice the carriers jumping in and out are often times the cheapest ones? Think for one second and you’ll figure it out if you have half a brain in your head.

    Agents complain about having to move an entire book. Here’s a solution. Stop pushing cheap price down the insureds throat and actually point out why they’re so cheap.

    These same agents complaining about having to move a whole book are probably bouncing it from one cheap carrier to another. If you placed that business w/ a solid carrier that actually underwrites rather than undercuts, you likely wouldn’t be moving the book to begin with. The customers will have the coverage they NEED and a carrier that will stand by them, not pull out of the market b/c they were stupid enough to undercut an already insufficient premium.

    It never ceases to amaze me that after nearly 25yrs in this business, the agents/brokers still don’t get it.

  • July 20, 2009 at 3:42 am
    Old Bull says:
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    I wonder if the survey had boxes for “moved business because @#$* stupid underwriter got caught and fired and I had to find a new sucker”?
    or the PC version “moved book to follow our “favorite” underwriter as he transitioned to a new carrier”?

  • July 21, 2009 at 9:54 am
    Evidence the company destroyed says:
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    In past court cases, judges have chastised and even fined State Farm for withholding records the company was ordered to produce. Evidence the company destroyed documents has been presented in several cases. How about ETHICS? Ethic of reciprocity – Wikipedia, encyclopedia
    The ethic of reciprocity is a fundamental moral value which “refers to the balance in an interactive system such that each party has both rights and duties, and the subordinate norm of complementarity states that one’s rights are the other’s obligation. ” In essence, it is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others

  • July 21, 2009 at 10:19 am
    nobody important says:
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    Here we go again. The cut and paster is going to tell us how little ethics our business has. That’s then end of any actual discussion on this line. I wonder about the ethics of this idiot.

  • July 22, 2009 at 12:00 pm
    Insurance fan says:
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    Jeff the Cynic,

    If I had to hazard a guess, I would say Auto-Owners, Erie, Pekin, General Casualty and West Bend Mutual, to name a few…

  • July 21, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    The real story says:
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    I treat the markets fairly that treat my clients fairly. The INSURANCE CARRIERS have a major image problem with this. If an account is paying $70K in premium with the SAME carrier over the last 5 years, and suddenly have a $100K-$200K fire, you either want to drop them like a hot potato or raise the rates so they will go elsewhere. Shock losses happen. It is not trending, it is still a profitable account. The agents aren’t the ones battling for reputation (I should say the ethical agents), it is the carriers. If you want the insureds and agents to treat you better, then change your perception by changing your ways. This change needs to be across the board. Underwriting, claims, service, and billing. Underwrite the damn account, don’t just look at your idealogical box and see if it fits and say yes or no, or better yet “How can we write this business profitably?” Pay first party claims and DEFEND 3rd party claims. Too often you want to nickel and dime the insured on 1st party, but just cave in on 3rd party….. now don’t you look stupid! With the exception of a select few larger carriers, you ALL operate the same way. If you as a carrier want to increase your retention and profits, figure out what you can do to increase your VALUE. Insurance companies are by in large seen as a commodity. What are you doing to seperate yourself? Don’t give me your A+++++++ rating BS either. Show me with your loss control and safety people. If you want my client to tell me at renewal, I really like ABC insurance company and I want to stay with them, then you need to give them a reason to do so. If you don’t, then you are nothing more than another insurance company, (ie: commodity)

    The end users (insureds) have an issue with YOUR reputation, not with ours (the agent).

    And don’t even get me started on “your” automation that puts more work on me. I am tired of filling out more than one application because you need it input into your web portal. If you wont take my apps and loss runs and quote it, I will find someone who will.

  • July 21, 2009 at 12:58 pm
    The "Other" side says:
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    Sometimes it seems to those of us on the the company side of the relationship that some agents continually complain about how much we ask them to do, ie; provide basic underwriting infomation and complete applications. What exactly is that commission for anyhow?

  • July 21, 2009 at 1:23 am
    Old Bull says:
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    You mean you actually expect me to cut into my profit margin by taking the time to pester my clients for employee counts, street addresses and square footage? I’ll send you the app anyway so I can block my competitors from using you.

  • July 21, 2009 at 1:25 am
    The real story says:
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    Thats what the ACORD form is for and if I send it to you, you should be able to figure it out and not tell me to drone it into your computer system.

    Let me see, what are commissions for? To print up certs, to answer stupid questions, contract reviews, advise clients on what your latest exclusion is going to be, listen to them complain about how you are treating them like crap on a claim, letting Mr. Monday morning work injury get away with sitting at home watching lawyer commercials, combing through the policy looking for a way to FIND coverage when your claims person has droned out the same message over and over, deny, deny, deny. Remarketing the account to either keep you honest or leave you in the dust for the next commodity, waiting for you take get off your tail to issue endorsements.

    All of that for a measley 13% point average.

  • July 21, 2009 at 2:08 am
    Old salt, carrier side says:
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    Getting on 35 years in the trade, not suprised to see some enduring the old festering tensions that were probably old when I started.
    In them is opportunity. Carriers who invest the time and money to effectively mentor and train underwriters who can exercise some independent judgement – whether managing individual large risks, or a book of “flow” small accounts, will recognize the better agents and opportunities, and how to win them.
    Agents who do likewise with staff mentoring and education, and understand why carriers have differing appetites, should also do well. And if everybody recognizes the others’ need to make a profit, and ultimately to take care of the insurance buying customer, other decisions become easier to make.
    Sorry if the above comes off preachy – not meant to be. It really is no more complicated than knowing what you are about, knowing the customer, and being reasonably fair while advocating for your own stakeholders.

  • July 21, 2009 at 2:51 am
    Come On.... says:
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    First off, it’s hard to “figure it out” when the agent’s idea of a complete “ACORD” form is the insured’s contact information…and nothing else.

    Secondly, for every agent I’ve come across who actually services their accounts the way they should (fielding questions, advocating in the claims process, etc.), I’ve seen two who show up 30 days prior to policy expiration, and then disappear once they’ve got the check, never to be heard from again by the insured or underwriter until the next renewal…

    If you fall into the first group of agents, congratulate yourselves – you are the exception to the rule.

    If you fall into the second larger group of agents, congratulate yourselves – you’re grossly overpaid, and are managing to get away with it.

  • July 21, 2009 at 2:54 am
    The real story says:
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    You are absolutely correct.

    As long as those second group of agents exist, I can pick my way through new business recession or no recession.
    Thank you for the continued opportunities.

  • July 21, 2009 at 6:22 am
    not happy says:
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    This is the most telling statement in the entire article: This appears to reflect a preference for companies that are big enough to meet their needs for coverage, while not being perceived as uncaring or bureaucratic as some national carriers.

    EXECS read this!! Stop meddling, and let your branches and your people make decisions. When you say they are “empowered”, then dang it, know what that means and embrace it!

    Execs who live in the ivory tower and love to pontificate are the problems in the industry, and who drive the inconsistency. I haven’t met a single one who really ‘gets it’.

  • July 21, 2009 at 6:25 am
    Not King says:
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    you must know that guy in Milwaukee. He’s been with 5 carriers over the past 20+ years, and I think he is now a branch VP. Yes, we all know who it is. He bounces from ship to ship, and bends the rules everywhere he goes. Does the dumbest things – but agents love him ! About every 4-5 years he gets dumped and moves on, and always seems to end up with a better job – because agents recommend him!

  • July 22, 2009 at 10:30 am
    ensure justice for others says:
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    News • June 25, 2009
    There is no need for a federal consumer protection agency for property/casualty insurance products, state insurance regulators and insurers told Congress. In testimony before the House …In addition, State Farm has agreed to change its method for non-renewing policies in coastal zones in Florida. As was announced in July, the company still plans to non-renew up to 50,000 policies of policyholders with properties along the coast; however, non-renewals will not be based upon tying to other insurance products with the company.

    State Farm also has agreed to refund excess surcharges. The excess amount, $23 million, plus 5 percent simple interest, will be refunded to State Farm policyholders beginning in six months.

    “State Farm has reduced its rates and has agreed to stop business practices that the Office found objectionable,” said Insurance Commissioner Kevin McCarty. “Our governor and our legislature required this by law, so I am happy to see that State Farm has reached this agreement for the benefit of its policyholders.”

    WANT THE BENEFIT OF state farm. In essence, it is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others

  • July 22, 2009 at 12:03 pm
    State Farm says:
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    Write back to me when State Farm non renews about 20% of its worst business (coastal and losses) and then says… ooops it is profitable again, we are staying. They did it in NJ.

  • July 22, 2009 at 6:29 am
    not General Cas - that's QBE ! says:
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    I don’t think General Casualty gets to be called a Super Regional anymore. They are QBE, a national just like Liberty Mutual’s Indiana, Peerless, etc. Those aren’t Super Regionals when they bring all of the national capabilities to the table, and are driven by corporate New York or Boston decision makers. They pretend to be tuned into agents but they’re business models are all about “them”. The problem, you gotta love them and have them in your agency, because when this thing turns, and when West Bend, Acuity, Secura, Hastings, Frankenmuth all dry up and start nonrenewing, the doors of General Casualty, Allied, Traveler’s and Indiana will be wide open.

  • July 22, 2009 at 6:33 am
    peter says:
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    I know that guy! he is joe insurance underwriter, who only thinks he is an underwriter. And you are right, the agents love hime because he will do anything for them. Cheap and no conscience. But gone in 5 years and on to the next carrier. Nice professional. But agents love him becuase he is always cheap and will write anything.

  • July 23, 2009 at 6:54 am
    Bottom Bill says:
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    State Farm is about to take their eye off the top line, while they focus on the bottom line. They are way overdue for some major correction.

  • July 24, 2009 at 8:54 am
    They are way overdue for some says:
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    July 21, 2009, 9:54 am CDT
    Posted By: Evidence the company destroyed
    Comment:
    In past court cases, judges have chastised and even fined State Farm for withholding records the company was ordered to produce. Evidence the company destroyed documents has been presented in several cases. How about ETHICS? Ethic of reciprocity – Wikipedia, encyclopedia
    The ethic of reciprocity is a fundamental moral value which “refers to the balance in an interactive system such that each party has both rights and duties, and the subordinate norm of complementarity states that one’s rights are the other’s obligation. ” In essence, it is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others
    They are way overdue for some major correction bull s…………….: .Our governor and our legislature required this

  • July 24, 2009 at 8:58 am
    required says:
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    INSTEAD OF SELF CENTURED EGO, A COMPASSIONATE MIND HAS A TRUE SENSE OF THE PAIN AND SUFFURING OF OTHERS . UNLIKE STATE FARM . LOTS OF HISTORY!!!!

  • July 24, 2009 at 11:39 am
    Rumor Milt says:
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    I don’t care what you call General Casualty. We have them in Wisconsin and thankfully they’re emerging just when all of the other Wisconsin mutuals are starting to get their 5-7 year itch. Yes, that’s what we call it. every 5-7 years West Bend, Acuity, Secura, and Society need to reunderwrite, reprice, and even restaff because they realize their current staffs don’t know what they are doing. Thankfully our agency sticks with General Casualty and they come through when the market gets hard.

  • July 26, 2009 at 8:02 am
    We spend more, but have less, says:
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    A Message by George Carlin:

    The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider Freeways , but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness.

    We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

    We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often.

    We’ve learned how to make a living, but not a life. We’ve added years to life not life to years. We’ve been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We’ve done larger things, but not better things.

    We’ve cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We’ve conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We’ve learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less.

    These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete…

    Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever.

    Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side.

    Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn’t cost a cent.

    Remember, to say, ‘ I love you ‘ to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you.

    Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday that person will not be there again.

    Give time to love, give time to speak! And give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind.

    AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:

    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

    Please show you care….send this to at least 8 other people.

  • August 11, 2009 at 5:24 am
    Spiderman says:
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    Can George please bring back the hard market, and get rid a few of these carriers that do not know how to underwrite?



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