Anon is stating something that is very important to the continuance of our great nation. Personal Responsibility, which is something that is lacking and the root of all nations that have failed in history. Look at Venezuela and how Chavez has taken over that country. Class warfare is currently being sold to us by the far left media and that initative is very dangerous for our country.
The shift in attack is happening now. Everyone is talking about health insurance, yes health insurance is an issue but it is more of a symptom of a greater problem. The Cost of healthcare and prescription drug cost are the real problem. To use a medical example, Lets dont confuss the symptom with the illness.
I didnt vote for this change. I just didnt think McCain was up to the task of being president. But Ill admit I didnt think this was the change we were going to get. Why are we still in Iraq, Gitmo still open for business, Our men dying in Afganistan more now than ever. Healthcare take over, bailouts and take overs in the economy. Cash for clunkers, Union influence at the highest levels. I just wish we could do the election over with someone better running against Obama.
Mark it down today, We will get health insurance reform, not health reform! Doctors will still make millions and own the labs and testing facilities and rehab clinics that they send us to. Medicare will continue to be abused. Once this reform is done, They will regulate private insurance companies out of existence, Then they will come in later and take over the entire system.
Health insurance reform will have to be mandatory or it won’t fix the problem. Even those that have health insurance are being priced out of it for two primary reasons. First, the health care system in the US is broke and too expensive. Second, those that have insurance are paying higher rates to make up for those that are uninsured and are struck with conditions they can’t pay out of pocket.
I personally would not object to national health care as long as I can have a supplement plan with my private insurance carrier that allows me the same high quality care I currently receive. This would be the best compromise for everyone. How we fund the national health care plan is a broader issue that I don’t have time to discuss.
So long as private health insurance runs the system, with or without reforms, the US will continue to pay nearly twice what everyone else in the western world pays for health care. Private health insurance brings nothing to the table except a needless layer of waste. Having this layer of waste is the primary reason as to why our cost per capita are so much higher than every other country. If Obama’s end result does not contain a strong public option, little will change.
Bush complained about Social Security, and Obama is complaining right now about Medicare. Just the last two Presidents.
This not just about “Insurance Reform” Its funny this term happend shifted from “Healthcare reform” in the middle of the night.I am a fiscal conservative and I believe that as Obama stated in one of his hundred daily town hall meetings yesterday. “75% of our annual government budget is made up of Social Security and Medicare 1% Foreign Aid 1% Pork 8% Defense and 10% other “essential” programs”. That 75% is projected to hit 85% by 2017 if we dont do something about healthcare. As americans not (R)’s or (D)’s we do need to do something about this. So whats the solution?
NO SACRED COWS!
Doctors need a fee schedule if they want to be reimbursed by Insurance, otherwise your on your own. Doctors should not be allowed to own testing labs, clinics or physical therapy clinics. Chiropractors your out like witch doctors.
Drug companies – you have to charge us what you charge other countries for your drugs. And STOP YOUR STUPID ADS.
Insurance companies need an excess profit law like WC in many states and be actuarially sound rates established by an entity like NCCI does for Workers Comp and not be politicized. We also need standardized forms like homeowners or auto has. NO MORE FINE PRINT EXCLUSIONS.
Ed, you missed something. Our problem is not insurance. Insurance is the result of the problem. The real problem we are facing is the cost of healthcare and the abuses of medicare and overcharging citizens for their care. High insurance rates and limited coverages are just the symptom of the underlying issue.
Let’s look at where we can save some real money without letting the federal goverment screw it all up.
1. Stop all coverage for illegal aliens.
2. Institute torte reform that still punishes bad players but does not tie up the courts with frivolous suits
3. All the sale of health insurance plans accross state lines
4. Make health insurance portable
5. Concentrate on creating a plan for the uninsurable
6. Open your eyes and see what a fiasco government health insurance has been everywhere it has been tried. I have lost too many family members in the UK because of healthcare rationing. I don’t want to see that here.
Our governments on all levels (local,state, county, and federal) are so incredibly inefficient and wasteful they have no business tampering with our lives.
Sam, Price-Waterhouse recently released a study that we waste 1.2 trillion dollars per year in health care. Part of it is lifesytle issues, obesity, smoking, etc. However, $280 billion was administrative waste. Lifesyle issues will take time to resolve but admin. waste can be done fairly quickly with a gov’t plan. If we don’t begin to move away from our in efficient system now, when??
“admin. waste can be done fairly quickly with a gov’t plan.”
Are you looking at the same government I see? Government-run ANYTHING has twice the number of bureaucrats that work at half the efficiency. Administrative waste will increase under any government plan.
I’m not saying the current system is perfect — far from it. But an insurance policy sold by the federal government exacerbates the problems. It doesn’t solve them.
Ed – Are you seriously suggesting we should run to the government for a solution to waste, mismanagement and inefficieny? Where have you been? Name 1 efficent government-run program. Now name one efficient and extremely large government program? How’s the list coming? Get real.
Sam you are so correct. It is the cost and the type of healthcare that we Americans DEMAND. Only way to cut cost is to ration it or reduce the quality to less than we DAMAND. Good luck with that. And why is the government even invloved in it. They are the reason it is like it is. Mandates, ambulance chasers, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
And you can bet it won’t take long to incrementally change what ever bill they pass to full blown socialized medicine. End of freedom is near.
These posters think that the cost of insurance coverage is all the problem and controlling medical costs are not. If Ed was a doctor and someone came in with the flu, he would give them a tissue. TREAT THE DISEASE. The disease in this case is the cost reflected by the charge made by insurance companies. What is the profit made by insurers? It’s a long way from what people like Ed think. Do a little real homework people.
I’ll pretty much second your post, my “Phase 1” plan would be:
1) Tort Reform – maybe not how they did it in Texas but a similar plan.
2) Find a way to restrict coverage options for illegal immigrants.
3) Exclude people who have coverage options available but who chose to not cary that insurance.
When I was 21 I was working for a very large company that offered health insurance but I was bullet proof and didn’t want to give away any of my hard-earned drinking money on something as stupid as health insurance. Well, I broke a bone and found myself at the Free Clinic for treatment. I didn’t ask someone to come pay for me.
If you want to see how messed up government run health-care would be in this country… visit your local Free Clinic. You’ll run screaming to your EPO company to hug them.
Let’s try SS, Medicare, Medicaid, VA, public libraries, prisions, defense, education, NASA, IRS, etc. Don’t confuse lack of funding for inefficiencies. I’m sure you’ll point our some isolated instances of gov’t screw-ups but I doubt that any private entity could send out the millions of checks every month, track the data, etc. as the SS Admin. does for anywhere near the cost. Capitalist seem to think that every private venture is somehow wonderful. How many private ventures, large and small, fail every year. Not to mention that major gov’t dept. heads make salaries in the hundreds of thousands as opposed to multi-millions by large corp. CEO’s.
Let’s chat about: (1)The US Postal Service vs. UPS/FedEx; (2)Medicare/Medicaid vs. private insurance; (3)Social Security vs. name a 401k administrator; or, (4)state-run windstorm pools (ask a Floridian about Citizens sometime) vs. private insurors.
The government couldn’t run a hot dog stand more efficiently and less emotionally (e.g. pandering to social ends)than a private enterprise. The problem seems that government (particularly the current variety) confuses commerce with the opportunity to distribution production “to each according to their need and from each according to their ability.”
The reason we pay more domestically is because we love the ability to go see a top-rate doctor as soon as we start feeling poorly. Crazier yet, we prefer to leave the doctor’s office with a medically sound diagnosis and resolution.
Bill, you left out a couple of things that would ease some of the cost of health care. GET THE TRIAL LAWYERS OUT OF THE PICTURE. Tort Reform should be part of this health care reform. Prohibit them from advertising. Same with the drug companies. you’re correct, stop the ads, then lower the cost to the consumer.
And my biggest beef is the referral system. A primary doctor is a jack of all trades and master of none. I should be able to go to a specialist whenever I feel the need once I have established a relationship. But now, every time I need to see my orthopede, I have to get a referral. Hello, additional administrative costs for both the primary and the specialist. I could go on and on.
I have little faith in the ability of our govt. to successfully run anything.
Might I remind you that our govt. couldn’t even turn a profit running the Mustang Ranch in 1990 when they took it over for tax evasion.
If the govt. can’t turn a profit peddling whores and booze, what shot do they have at revamping a healthcare system w/o creating more waste. Newsflash…..our elected officials haven’t gotten any brighter since 1990.
I agree with Bill on his No Sacred Cows suggestions. In addition, we need to reduce Big Pharma’s monopolistic pricing on brand Rx. The 10-year patent (better defined as monopoly) needs to be reduced to 5 or 8 years (not extended to 12 years as the House bill so outrageously suggested.)
Since 80% of healthcare costs are incurred by only 20% of people, and most of these people all happen to be on Medicare. This implies that the runaway healthcare costs that we are seeing are mostly under the control of the Medicare administration, i.e. CMS, the Government. They need to reform Medicare in order to bring costs under control. This should be done not by capping Medicare payments (which are simply cost-shifted by providers over to the private sector). It should involve real reform, such as reducing Medicare copays, increasing deductibles, instituting more cost effectiveness studies to reduce over-utilization, reducing medical malpractice burdens on the medical profession, banning physician ownership of labs, better eduction of patients and doctors on preventive care and healthy lifestyles, etc., etc.
These are real reform suggestions, not idealistic rants from people who don’t fully understand all the issues.
Amen Dave! Ed must be a communist, If you dont like capitalism, why did your family decide to stay in the US. Move to France Ed.
You cant argue with a liberal. They always come out with an emotional outburst of illogical ridicule and name calling “ie Palin” – Conservatives on the other hand, use logic and reason backed up by historical facts.
WHAT! you got to be kidding me. Both Bev and Ed should move to France. As a matter of fact. There really needs to be legislation requiring idiots to be deported for wanting socialism. I guess freedom of speach should be honored but you guys who want government to take care of you should move to another more appropriate country.
I think that all of you who think that “liberals” are just WAY out there should provide your own fire protection, police protection, schools and teachers for your children and your own water, sewer and trash service. After all – we don’t want that terrible Socialism, do we?
I am starting to wonder if Obama read the book on socialism that Chavez gave him at the south american summit. Ed and Bev remind me of followers of Chavez and the many who are so eager to blindly give up their freedoms. The role of government is to legislate and regulate but not confiscate.
I do pay for all the services you mention (both in the place of my residence as well as in the place of my employment) thank you. I pay for those services because I like to have the ability to avail myself of those services. I pay for the police so that when someone robs me I can call them and they’ll come and do what they do.
(Still trying to figure out who to call when the government robs me, but anyway…)
I also pay for my health insurance because I also like to avail myself of that service. You can be a cashier at Wal*Mart and get health insurance. It’s not like there’s a conspiracy out there to deny a certain group coverage… you want it, go get it (and pay for it yourself).
My healthcare isn’t your problem. My mortgage isn’t your problem. My old gas guzzler isn’t your problem. The same way, yours isn’t mine and I shouldn’t pay for it either.
It’s called personal responsibility… has nothing to do with conservative vs liberal… grow up, realize the government’s job isn’t to coddle you cradle to grave, and start playing an active role in your own life!
There’s the problem… the government DOES NOT have money… they have YOUR money.
Yes, many of the services you mention get federal/state/local subsidies… where does that money come from? The Washintgon Money Tree? No, they get it from taxing.
You pay because some politician knows better than you how to spend your money.
Forget that the worst run charities still have better operational costs than the best run government agencies.
Cut my taxes and let me decide where my money goes, I’ve been spending it for 37 years and think I do a pretty good job on my own without the government’s help.
Yeah, I do not want socialism. I would prefer to keep my tax money and have the government leave me alone. As for services, they can keep them. I have a well, septic system, my kids go to private schools, I take my own trash to a private landfill and as for protection have have several large guns. Don’t need the government.
Insurance Girl cannot be that stupid to think the “government kicks in money”. I guess that explains why some people think the government can fix everything because it has some secret money making machine… while technically it does (the Fed) you know what I mean.
There are quite a few of us “anon’s” out here and it really is time we stood up for our values and beliefs. Not only should we support Anon for President, we should put one in every office that is available at the earliest possible election.
I think some of you are misinterpreting InsuranceGirl’s initial statement. Certain services such as police and fire protection are best left up to government entities. Having said that, my kids went to private school and I pay to have my trash hauled away because I live outside the nearest city limits. I also elect to pay for alarm service. The question is should healthcare services be given equal treatment as police or fire services?
Most police and fire services are paid directly or indirectly from property taxes – everybody pays one way or another. That is part of what is wrong with our health insurance in the US. Not everyone pays into the healthcare system but, everybody expects to receive treatment even if they elect not to have insurance. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP! If the person doesn’t have insurance or the ability to pay then, they need to be taken to the ‘Free Clinic’ and receive basic treatment. The main thing is that the cost of the uninsured’s treatment does not get deferred to my insurance carrier. If that has to be a public option then so be it. If I can show that my insurance plan meets or exceeds the coverages of the public option then, I shouldn’t have to pay into the public option. I’m holding up my end of the deal by being responsible for myself. A mandatory public option at the ‘Free Clinic’ seems to be the only thing that will work for those who elect not to be responsible for their healthcare – unless society elects to turn them away at the hospital. Some people really can’t pay but, a large portion of the US population that has the ability chose not to.
Just remember Anon, I’m throwing my support behind a constitutional amendment that may affect you here. Anyone who will do what it takes to become President should be forever banned from the office. If only we could have had this in 2008.
Gee folks, didn’t we have an election in Nov. 2008. Didn’t Obama run on a platform to try to fix our health care system? I suspect that many of you get your daily dose of non-sense from FOX. Obama is trying to fix health care by taking a middle of road approach with a public option (if it survives?). The liberal approach is a true single payer plan which Obama never even allowed on the table for discussion. My goodness people, THINK!!! Look around the world. Everyone else does health care better and for far less money. Programs like SS, Medicare, etc. did not come into place because Congress had nothing else to do. There were major problems than needed addressed and government stepped in when the private sector failed to respond. For all the crazy talk about Obama being a socialist, if he gets the govenrment option passed, in 50 years he’ll be regarded as a very sucessful president much like Roosevelt. The conversatives will go down in history just like the Hooverites. Look around and WAKE UP!!! Last year alone, it was estimated that 18,000 peope died prematurely due to lack of access. By the way, I’ll be eligible for my gov’t single payer plan (Medicare) in the near future, just very thankful we have Medicare in place. Thank you LBJ!!
Dropping the public option would be a mistake. What is needed is for the administration to do a better job countering the ultra cons misinformation campaign,and explaining what exactly the public option is. It is simply one of many plans in the new health insurance exchange in which people who meet certain low-income criteria can voluntarily choose to enroll. Private plans who voluntarily choose to be part of the exchange simply agree to provide a minimum set of benefits and limit what they charge to certain populations. They remain free to compete beyond those minimum standards, and patients remain free to choose the plan that best suits their medical needs without having to worry about pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, our being dropped when they get sick.
this is exactly what we currently do under the Federal Employees plan and Medicare Part D. The ultra cons haven’t complained about “rationing” or “socialism” under these very popular plans, so their current misinformation campaign is nothing more than political posturing.
Sorry Ed, in my opinion, the voters selected this individual based on him not being George Bush, not on his actual agenda. Now that the general populace is figuring out his actual liberal agenda they are pushing back. This misinformation you and Mark refer to is that the real agenda was not so obvious to those voters who just wanted “change” and were desperate enough to vote for anyone rather than GWB. After all, didn’t we just see a poll yesterday that said there are now more people in all states, except DC, who consider themselves conservative rather than liberal. I think polls are useless unless they are taken at the voting booth, but you may actually be in the minority with your liberal views. Just a thought.
My problem with the public option is “Who is going to be paying for it?” Everyone that pays their taxes will be. So if I decide to keep my private healthcare, I will be paying double, 1. to my insurer; 2. For the public option that I am not using.
Wow, really? School for my children is paid with my property tax and payroll tax. Water, sewer, and trash are paid out of my checkbook to private companies. The gov’t doesn’t give enough money to fire and police, etc., because the firemen have to stand on the corner with a boot to raise more money or mail letters to my house begging for more money, and the police are always first on the chopping block in a budget crisis. Fire, police, and infrastructure should be paid for by the gov’t through our taxes or other revenue generating means. All this bloated nonsense that has us running astronomical deficits was never envisioned by the founding fathers. No healthcare, no new spending, no new gov’t offices or beauracracies should be on the table because WE DON’T HAVE ANY MONEY. Seriously. I can’t do it at home or in business. If the Gov’t had to run like the real world, America would be a much better and more prosperous place.
Gov’t intervention is the problem; driving up costs at every turn. It needs to go away and let the private the private sector find the fix.
Yes, there are evil, greedy people in the private sector. They are everywhere in Gov’t as well. The further we get from the Constitution and God, the worse it gets. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Well, first for Nobody Important, if people voted for the O’man rather than McCain just for a change and not because of policy, well, I guess that makes them a little stupid. If you’re so uninformed as to not to understand the differences between the “R” and “D” party and knowing what’s coming if either get in, well that’s the voters problem.
As I understand the gov’t option, it is not free except for the very poor. Everyone would have to pay a premium based on abilty to pay adn the rates would be set for the program to be self-supporting. Yes, tax dollars would be used to pay a subsidy for those who need help paying the premium. Therefore the increase in taxes for those making over $250,000. Hopefully that includes all of you. :)
As for All that jive, not sure where you live but my kids attended public schools and public universities. I never got letters from the local police or fireman asking for money and yes all these services should be paid for by tax dollars. Most cities and states have laws requiring them to live within their means. However, Federal gov’t is different because it has the abilty to create money unlike you and I and local entities. Herbert Hoover had a balanced budget. The country often has to run deficits to fund wars and pull the economy out of ressession to avoid more depressions.
O’man’s plan is to restrain gov’t spending on entitlements to reduce future deficits. Getting a handle on health care expenses is a key element to getting this done. What’s your plan???
As for God and the Constitution, we’ll just to have leave that topic for another time.
Gee Ed, I had no idea the government provided any services at all. How stupid of me. I must be conservative. Yes, I believe a lot of the voters last fall were simply stupid. They voted for an unqualified empty suit who made promises that people wanted to hear. Everyone was pretty anxious to have a smart, good looking and well spoken President so they voted without paying attention to the details. I’m not one of those idiot conspiracy nuts like a birther, I just disagree with the Liberal policies and programs he promotes. We have quickly bankrupted this country with the multitude of programs being promoted by the current President and Congress. There is no more money. Slow down and take a breath before allowing the government to assume another large chunk of private enterprise. Just because these people are elected by us doesn’t make them better than us and if the indications coming out of the current crop of politicians are any indication, certainly they aren’t smarter than us. Goverment takeover, no, realistic cost cutting measures yes.
Who is going to pay for the public option – we already are paying for it. The cost of the uninsured is already being passed along to those of us that pay for our private insurance. Exceptions to that are the county hospital systems which are supported by property taxes and also pass along some of the cost of the uninsured to private insurance carriers.
Those that truly can’t afford health insurance will always continue to have basic health care paid for by government programs. A mandatory public option will bring in the badly needed premiums from those who chose not to buy health insurance. That would be OK but, we all know that segment of the population always demands treatment when they need it and we pay for it when the hospital passes the cost along to our insurance carriers. I cringe to say it but, a payroll or sales tax to fund the public option may be the only way to fund it. If the math works correctly, a mandatory public health option will result in an increased infusion of premiums which should allow my current health insurance premiums to decrease more than my portion of the tax that supports the public option. Note: At that point my health insurance plan would be a supplement plan.
However, I agree that health insurance problems only reflect a broken health care system. The key to success is to fix both the entire health care system which includes insurance.
To Nobodyy Important, I hope you voted for McCain. We all should know that the “R” party stands for as little government intervention as possibe, while the “D” party feels that the gov’t has a strong roll in making society better. That’s why we have two parties. If we elect a “D” President and the “D” party controls both Houses of Congress, guess what direction solutions will take? I don’t view it as gov’t taking over anything, just fixing a problem that has lingered since F. Roosevelt.
We will have to agree to disagree. My feeling is that the role of government is to get out of the way. Big D is right, big government taking over wherever possible. This is not my idea of an ideal society. Government does not do it better. Stop thinking that these people we elect are parental figures, protecting us from all harm.
For those of you who feel the need to go around correcting the spelling and vocabulary of every poster, get a life.
Anon is stating something that is very important to the continuance of our great nation. Personal Responsibility, which is something that is lacking and the root of all nations that have failed in history. Look at Venezuela and how Chavez has taken over that country. Class warfare is currently being sold to us by the far left media and that initative is very dangerous for our country.
The shift in attack is happening now. Everyone is talking about health insurance, yes health insurance is an issue but it is more of a symptom of a greater problem. The Cost of healthcare and prescription drug cost are the real problem. To use a medical example, Lets dont confuss the symptom with the illness.
I didnt vote for this change. I just didnt think McCain was up to the task of being president. But Ill admit I didnt think this was the change we were going to get. Why are we still in Iraq, Gitmo still open for business, Our men dying in Afganistan more now than ever. Healthcare take over, bailouts and take overs in the economy. Cash for clunkers, Union influence at the highest levels. I just wish we could do the election over with someone better running against Obama.
Mark it down today, We will get health insurance reform, not health reform! Doctors will still make millions and own the labs and testing facilities and rehab clinics that they send us to. Medicare will continue to be abused. Once this reform is done, They will regulate private insurance companies out of existence, Then they will come in later and take over the entire system.
Health insurance reform will have to be mandatory or it won’t fix the problem. Even those that have health insurance are being priced out of it for two primary reasons. First, the health care system in the US is broke and too expensive. Second, those that have insurance are paying higher rates to make up for those that are uninsured and are struck with conditions they can’t pay out of pocket.
I personally would not object to national health care as long as I can have a supplement plan with my private insurance carrier that allows me the same high quality care I currently receive. This would be the best compromise for everyone. How we fund the national health care plan is a broader issue that I don’t have time to discuss.
So long as private health insurance runs the system, with or without reforms, the US will continue to pay nearly twice what everyone else in the western world pays for health care. Private health insurance brings nothing to the table except a needless layer of waste. Having this layer of waste is the primary reason as to why our cost per capita are so much higher than every other country. If Obama’s end result does not contain a strong public option, little will change.
Bush complained about Social Security, and Obama is complaining right now about Medicare. Just the last two Presidents.
This not just about “Insurance Reform” Its funny this term happend shifted from “Healthcare reform” in the middle of the night.I am a fiscal conservative and I believe that as Obama stated in one of his hundred daily town hall meetings yesterday. “75% of our annual government budget is made up of Social Security and Medicare 1% Foreign Aid 1% Pork 8% Defense and 10% other “essential” programs”. That 75% is projected to hit 85% by 2017 if we dont do something about healthcare. As americans not (R)’s or (D)’s we do need to do something about this. So whats the solution?
NO SACRED COWS!
Doctors need a fee schedule if they want to be reimbursed by Insurance, otherwise your on your own. Doctors should not be allowed to own testing labs, clinics or physical therapy clinics. Chiropractors your out like witch doctors.
Drug companies – you have to charge us what you charge other countries for your drugs. And STOP YOUR STUPID ADS.
Insurance companies need an excess profit law like WC in many states and be actuarially sound rates established by an entity like NCCI does for Workers Comp and not be politicized. We also need standardized forms like homeowners or auto has. NO MORE FINE PRINT EXCLUSIONS.
THIS IS JUST THE START.
Ed, you missed something. Our problem is not insurance. Insurance is the result of the problem. The real problem we are facing is the cost of healthcare and the abuses of medicare and overcharging citizens for their care. High insurance rates and limited coverages are just the symptom of the underlying issue.
Let’s look at where we can save some real money without letting the federal goverment screw it all up.
1. Stop all coverage for illegal aliens.
2. Institute torte reform that still punishes bad players but does not tie up the courts with frivolous suits
3. All the sale of health insurance plans accross state lines
4. Make health insurance portable
5. Concentrate on creating a plan for the uninsurable
6. Open your eyes and see what a fiasco government health insurance has been everywhere it has been tried. I have lost too many family members in the UK because of healthcare rationing. I don’t want to see that here.
Our governments on all levels (local,state, county, and federal) are so incredibly inefficient and wasteful they have no business tampering with our lives.
Sam, Price-Waterhouse recently released a study that we waste 1.2 trillion dollars per year in health care. Part of it is lifesytle issues, obesity, smoking, etc. However, $280 billion was administrative waste. Lifesyle issues will take time to resolve but admin. waste can be done fairly quickly with a gov’t plan. If we don’t begin to move away from our in efficient system now, when??
“admin. waste can be done fairly quickly with a gov’t plan.”
Are you looking at the same government I see? Government-run ANYTHING has twice the number of bureaucrats that work at half the efficiency. Administrative waste will increase under any government plan.
I’m not saying the current system is perfect — far from it. But an insurance policy sold by the federal government exacerbates the problems. It doesn’t solve them.
Ed – Are you seriously suggesting we should run to the government for a solution to waste, mismanagement and inefficieny? Where have you been? Name 1 efficent government-run program. Now name one efficient and extremely large government program? How’s the list coming? Get real.
Sam you are so correct. It is the cost and the type of healthcare that we Americans DEMAND. Only way to cut cost is to ration it or reduce the quality to less than we DAMAND. Good luck with that. And why is the government even invloved in it. They are the reason it is like it is. Mandates, ambulance chasers, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
And you can bet it won’t take long to incrementally change what ever bill they pass to full blown socialized medicine. End of freedom is near.
These posters think that the cost of insurance coverage is all the problem and controlling medical costs are not. If Ed was a doctor and someone came in with the flu, he would give them a tissue. TREAT THE DISEASE. The disease in this case is the cost reflected by the charge made by insurance companies. What is the profit made by insurers? It’s a long way from what people like Ed think. Do a little real homework people.
I’ll pretty much second your post, my “Phase 1” plan would be:
1) Tort Reform – maybe not how they did it in Texas but a similar plan.
2) Find a way to restrict coverage options for illegal immigrants.
3) Exclude people who have coverage options available but who chose to not cary that insurance.
When I was 21 I was working for a very large company that offered health insurance but I was bullet proof and didn’t want to give away any of my hard-earned drinking money on something as stupid as health insurance. Well, I broke a bone and found myself at the Free Clinic for treatment. I didn’t ask someone to come pay for me.
If you want to see how messed up government run health-care would be in this country… visit your local Free Clinic. You’ll run screaming to your EPO company to hug them.
Let’s try SS, Medicare, Medicaid, VA, public libraries, prisions, defense, education, NASA, IRS, etc. Don’t confuse lack of funding for inefficiencies. I’m sure you’ll point our some isolated instances of gov’t screw-ups but I doubt that any private entity could send out the millions of checks every month, track the data, etc. as the SS Admin. does for anywhere near the cost. Capitalist seem to think that every private venture is somehow wonderful. How many private ventures, large and small, fail every year. Not to mention that major gov’t dept. heads make salaries in the hundreds of thousands as opposed to multi-millions by large corp. CEO’s.
Ed,
Let’s chat about: (1)The US Postal Service vs. UPS/FedEx; (2)Medicare/Medicaid vs. private insurance; (3)Social Security vs. name a 401k administrator; or, (4)state-run windstorm pools (ask a Floridian about Citizens sometime) vs. private insurors.
The government couldn’t run a hot dog stand more efficiently and less emotionally (e.g. pandering to social ends)than a private enterprise. The problem seems that government (particularly the current variety) confuses commerce with the opportunity to distribution production “to each according to their need and from each according to their ability.”
The reason we pay more domestically is because we love the ability to go see a top-rate doctor as soon as we start feeling poorly. Crazier yet, we prefer to leave the doctor’s office with a medically sound diagnosis and resolution.
Ed,
Please put the kool aid down before you become a koolaidaholic. If you do we have a good goverment rehab center we can put you in. Free too.
Bill, you left out a couple of things that would ease some of the cost of health care. GET THE TRIAL LAWYERS OUT OF THE PICTURE. Tort Reform should be part of this health care reform. Prohibit them from advertising. Same with the drug companies. you’re correct, stop the ads, then lower the cost to the consumer.
And my biggest beef is the referral system. A primary doctor is a jack of all trades and master of none. I should be able to go to a specialist whenever I feel the need once I have established a relationship. But now, every time I need to see my orthopede, I have to get a referral. Hello, additional administrative costs for both the primary and the specialist. I could go on and on.
I have little faith in the ability of our govt. to successfully run anything.
Might I remind you that our govt. couldn’t even turn a profit running the Mustang Ranch in 1990 when they took it over for tax evasion.
If the govt. can’t turn a profit peddling whores and booze, what shot do they have at revamping a healthcare system w/o creating more waste. Newsflash…..our elected officials haven’t gotten any brighter since 1990.
If they had turned the Mustang Ranch over to Bill Clinton he could have made a profit. Oh wait. The whores would have blown all the profits on Bill.
For being intelligent enough to see the whole picture. I grew up in Socialized medicine and REALLY appreciated it.
I agree with Bill on his No Sacred Cows suggestions. In addition, we need to reduce Big Pharma’s monopolistic pricing on brand Rx. The 10-year patent (better defined as monopoly) needs to be reduced to 5 or 8 years (not extended to 12 years as the House bill so outrageously suggested.)
Since 80% of healthcare costs are incurred by only 20% of people, and most of these people all happen to be on Medicare. This implies that the runaway healthcare costs that we are seeing are mostly under the control of the Medicare administration, i.e. CMS, the Government. They need to reform Medicare in order to bring costs under control. This should be done not by capping Medicare payments (which are simply cost-shifted by providers over to the private sector). It should involve real reform, such as reducing Medicare copays, increasing deductibles, instituting more cost effectiveness studies to reduce over-utilization, reducing medical malpractice burdens on the medical profession, banning physician ownership of labs, better eduction of patients and doctors on preventive care and healthy lifestyles, etc., etc.
These are real reform suggestions, not idealistic rants from people who don’t fully understand all the issues.
Amen Dave! Ed must be a communist, If you dont like capitalism, why did your family decide to stay in the US. Move to France Ed.
You cant argue with a liberal. They always come out with an emotional outburst of illogical ridicule and name calling “ie Palin” – Conservatives on the other hand, use logic and reason backed up by historical facts.
Its like arguing with my 15 year old daughter.
WHAT! you got to be kidding me. Both Bev and Ed should move to France. As a matter of fact. There really needs to be legislation requiring idiots to be deported for wanting socialism. I guess freedom of speach should be honored but you guys who want government to take care of you should move to another more appropriate country.
Phil,
Please cite your source for the 80/20 fact in your post. It just sounds a bit heavy to me.
-Dave
I think that all of you who think that “liberals” are just WAY out there should provide your own fire protection, police protection, schools and teachers for your children and your own water, sewer and trash service. After all – we don’t want that terrible Socialism, do we?
I am starting to wonder if Obama read the book on socialism that Chavez gave him at the south american summit. Ed and Bev remind me of followers of Chavez and the many who are so eager to blindly give up their freedoms. The role of government is to legislate and regulate but not confiscate.
Insurance Girl,
We already do provide it, WITH OUR TAX MONEY. We just dont want to pay for yours!
I do pay for all the services you mention (both in the place of my residence as well as in the place of my employment) thank you. I pay for those services because I like to have the ability to avail myself of those services. I pay for the police so that when someone robs me I can call them and they’ll come and do what they do.
(Still trying to figure out who to call when the government robs me, but anyway…)
I also pay for my health insurance because I also like to avail myself of that service. You can be a cashier at Wal*Mart and get health insurance. It’s not like there’s a conspiracy out there to deny a certain group coverage… you want it, go get it (and pay for it yourself).
My healthcare isn’t your problem. My mortgage isn’t your problem. My old gas guzzler isn’t your problem. The same way, yours isn’t mine and I shouldn’t pay for it either.
It’s called personal responsibility… has nothing to do with conservative vs liberal… grow up, realize the government’s job isn’t to coddle you cradle to grave, and start playing an active role in your own life!
Hmmm – Guess that means that the government kicks in NO money for fire and safety. I had no idea these were private enterprises.
Well stated! It’s just that simple!
There’s the problem… the government DOES NOT have money… they have YOUR money.
Yes, many of the services you mention get federal/state/local subsidies… where does that money come from? The Washintgon Money Tree? No, they get it from taxing.
You pay because some politician knows better than you how to spend your money.
Forget that the worst run charities still have better operational costs than the best run government agencies.
Cut my taxes and let me decide where my money goes, I’ve been spending it for 37 years and think I do a pretty good job on my own without the government’s help.
Uh, Insurance Girl – where do think the govt money comes from?
Insurance Girl,
Yeah, I do not want socialism. I would prefer to keep my tax money and have the government leave me alone. As for services, they can keep them. I have a well, septic system, my kids go to private schools, I take my own trash to a private landfill and as for protection have have several large guns. Don’t need the government.
I concur! Well stated Anon!
Insurance Girl cannot be that stupid to think the “government kicks in money”. I guess that explains why some people think the government can fix everything because it has some secret money making machine… while technically it does (the Fed) you know what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs
Take the time to listen to president Reagan.
There are quite a few of us “anon’s” out here and it really is time we stood up for our values and beliefs. Not only should we support Anon for President, we should put one in every office that is available at the earliest possible election.
I think some of you are misinterpreting InsuranceGirl’s initial statement. Certain services such as police and fire protection are best left up to government entities. Having said that, my kids went to private school and I pay to have my trash hauled away because I live outside the nearest city limits. I also elect to pay for alarm service. The question is should healthcare services be given equal treatment as police or fire services?
Most police and fire services are paid directly or indirectly from property taxes – everybody pays one way or another. That is part of what is wrong with our health insurance in the US. Not everyone pays into the healthcare system but, everybody expects to receive treatment even if they elect not to have insurance. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP! If the person doesn’t have insurance or the ability to pay then, they need to be taken to the ‘Free Clinic’ and receive basic treatment. The main thing is that the cost of the uninsured’s treatment does not get deferred to my insurance carrier. If that has to be a public option then so be it. If I can show that my insurance plan meets or exceeds the coverages of the public option then, I shouldn’t have to pay into the public option. I’m holding up my end of the deal by being responsible for myself. A mandatory public option at the ‘Free Clinic’ seems to be the only thing that will work for those who elect not to be responsible for their healthcare – unless society elects to turn them away at the hospital. Some people really can’t pay but, a large portion of the US population that has the ability chose not to.
Just remember Anon, I’m throwing my support behind a constitutional amendment that may affect you here. Anyone who will do what it takes to become President should be forever banned from the office. If only we could have had this in 2008.
Gee folks, didn’t we have an election in Nov. 2008. Didn’t Obama run on a platform to try to fix our health care system? I suspect that many of you get your daily dose of non-sense from FOX. Obama is trying to fix health care by taking a middle of road approach with a public option (if it survives?). The liberal approach is a true single payer plan which Obama never even allowed on the table for discussion. My goodness people, THINK!!! Look around the world. Everyone else does health care better and for far less money. Programs like SS, Medicare, etc. did not come into place because Congress had nothing else to do. There were major problems than needed addressed and government stepped in when the private sector failed to respond. For all the crazy talk about Obama being a socialist, if he gets the govenrment option passed, in 50 years he’ll be regarded as a very sucessful president much like Roosevelt. The conversatives will go down in history just like the Hooverites. Look around and WAKE UP!!! Last year alone, it was estimated that 18,000 peope died prematurely due to lack of access. By the way, I’ll be eligible for my gov’t single payer plan (Medicare) in the near future, just very thankful we have Medicare in place. Thank you LBJ!!
Dropping the public option would be a mistake. What is needed is for the administration to do a better job countering the ultra cons misinformation campaign,and explaining what exactly the public option is. It is simply one of many plans in the new health insurance exchange in which people who meet certain low-income criteria can voluntarily choose to enroll. Private plans who voluntarily choose to be part of the exchange simply agree to provide a minimum set of benefits and limit what they charge to certain populations. They remain free to compete beyond those minimum standards, and patients remain free to choose the plan that best suits their medical needs without having to worry about pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, our being dropped when they get sick.
this is exactly what we currently do under the Federal Employees plan and Medicare Part D. The ultra cons haven’t complained about “rationing” or “socialism” under these very popular plans, so their current misinformation campaign is nothing more than political posturing.
Sorry Ed, in my opinion, the voters selected this individual based on him not being George Bush, not on his actual agenda. Now that the general populace is figuring out his actual liberal agenda they are pushing back. This misinformation you and Mark refer to is that the real agenda was not so obvious to those voters who just wanted “change” and were desperate enough to vote for anyone rather than GWB. After all, didn’t we just see a poll yesterday that said there are now more people in all states, except DC, who consider themselves conservative rather than liberal. I think polls are useless unless they are taken at the voting booth, but you may actually be in the minority with your liberal views. Just a thought.
My problem with the public option is “Who is going to be paying for it?” Everyone that pays their taxes will be. So if I decide to keep my private healthcare, I will be paying double, 1. to my insurer; 2. For the public option that I am not using.
Wow, really? School for my children is paid with my property tax and payroll tax. Water, sewer, and trash are paid out of my checkbook to private companies. The gov’t doesn’t give enough money to fire and police, etc., because the firemen have to stand on the corner with a boot to raise more money or mail letters to my house begging for more money, and the police are always first on the chopping block in a budget crisis. Fire, police, and infrastructure should be paid for by the gov’t through our taxes or other revenue generating means. All this bloated nonsense that has us running astronomical deficits was never envisioned by the founding fathers. No healthcare, no new spending, no new gov’t offices or beauracracies should be on the table because WE DON’T HAVE ANY MONEY. Seriously. I can’t do it at home or in business. If the Gov’t had to run like the real world, America would be a much better and more prosperous place.
Gov’t intervention is the problem; driving up costs at every turn. It needs to go away and let the private the private sector find the fix.
Yes, there are evil, greedy people in the private sector. They are everywhere in Gov’t as well. The further we get from the Constitution and God, the worse it gets. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Well, first for Nobody Important, if people voted for the O’man rather than McCain just for a change and not because of policy, well, I guess that makes them a little stupid. If you’re so uninformed as to not to understand the differences between the “R” and “D” party and knowing what’s coming if either get in, well that’s the voters problem.
As I understand the gov’t option, it is not free except for the very poor. Everyone would have to pay a premium based on abilty to pay adn the rates would be set for the program to be self-supporting. Yes, tax dollars would be used to pay a subsidy for those who need help paying the premium. Therefore the increase in taxes for those making over $250,000. Hopefully that includes all of you. :)
As for All that jive, not sure where you live but my kids attended public schools and public universities. I never got letters from the local police or fireman asking for money and yes all these services should be paid for by tax dollars. Most cities and states have laws requiring them to live within their means. However, Federal gov’t is different because it has the abilty to create money unlike you and I and local entities. Herbert Hoover had a balanced budget. The country often has to run deficits to fund wars and pull the economy out of ressession to avoid more depressions.
O’man’s plan is to restrain gov’t spending on entitlements to reduce future deficits. Getting a handle on health care expenses is a key element to getting this done. What’s your plan???
As for God and the Constitution, we’ll just to have leave that topic for another time.
Gee Ed, I had no idea the government provided any services at all. How stupid of me. I must be conservative. Yes, I believe a lot of the voters last fall were simply stupid. They voted for an unqualified empty suit who made promises that people wanted to hear. Everyone was pretty anxious to have a smart, good looking and well spoken President so they voted without paying attention to the details. I’m not one of those idiot conspiracy nuts like a birther, I just disagree with the Liberal policies and programs he promotes. We have quickly bankrupted this country with the multitude of programs being promoted by the current President and Congress. There is no more money. Slow down and take a breath before allowing the government to assume another large chunk of private enterprise. Just because these people are elected by us doesn’t make them better than us and if the indications coming out of the current crop of politicians are any indication, certainly they aren’t smarter than us. Goverment takeover, no, realistic cost cutting measures yes.
Who is going to pay for the public option – we already are paying for it. The cost of the uninsured is already being passed along to those of us that pay for our private insurance. Exceptions to that are the county hospital systems which are supported by property taxes and also pass along some of the cost of the uninsured to private insurance carriers.
Those that truly can’t afford health insurance will always continue to have basic health care paid for by government programs. A mandatory public option will bring in the badly needed premiums from those who chose not to buy health insurance. That would be OK but, we all know that segment of the population always demands treatment when they need it and we pay for it when the hospital passes the cost along to our insurance carriers. I cringe to say it but, a payroll or sales tax to fund the public option may be the only way to fund it. If the math works correctly, a mandatory public health option will result in an increased infusion of premiums which should allow my current health insurance premiums to decrease more than my portion of the tax that supports the public option. Note: At that point my health insurance plan would be a supplement plan.
However, I agree that health insurance problems only reflect a broken health care system. The key to success is to fix both the entire health care system which includes insurance.
Yes and they even taught us how to spell and to know that Girls are not Guys!
To Nobodyy Important, I hope you voted for McCain. We all should know that the “R” party stands for as little government intervention as possibe, while the “D” party feels that the gov’t has a strong roll in making society better. That’s why we have two parties. If we elect a “D” President and the “D” party controls both Houses of Congress, guess what direction solutions will take? I don’t view it as gov’t taking over anything, just fixing a problem that has lingered since F. Roosevelt.
We will have to agree to disagree. My feeling is that the role of government is to get out of the way. Big D is right, big government taking over wherever possible. This is not my idea of an ideal society. Government does not do it better. Stop thinking that these people we elect are parental figures, protecting us from all harm.
For those of you who feel the need to go around correcting the spelling and vocabulary of every poster, get a life.