YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT. And the insurance industry and drug makers need to wise up and realize you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.
The insurance industry is on a self destructive path. They want a world where they can insure you until you get sick, then and then they want to get rid of you. They want ultimate control. And even when they do have you insured, they want to tell you what they will cover and what they won’t.
Medicaid and Medicare provides better health care coverage then my expensive Aetna plan. My premiums went up $300 per month, and I now have no preventive care. Bummer. I’m getting to the point that as soon as my daughter and son have their own insurance. I don’t want any. I ‘ll transfer all my assets in a trust and I’ll go without coverage and croak. This is what the insurance companies want anyway. They only want to pretend that they are selling health insurance to help you. The truth is they just want your dollars (and a lot of it) while your healthy but they want to boot you out before you get old and sick.
HE’s not afraid to expose the corruption, even in his own party. He’s going to do it too if they don’t work together and get this done for us. FOR ME. I’m sick of being sick. THe truth is that the insurance industry has been dictating our health care, and driving our small businesses out of business, because they try to struggle paying the high cost of insurance unitl . . . until what. Duh they can’t afford it anymore but in the meantime they lowered the quality of the product or service they provide. Thus their business, once a unique, high quality company died a slow death. NO MO MONEY
AND it a cuz there is no competition. DUR..blirp. maybe me go buy insurance in Tennessee cheap cheap. hee hee. OR maybe we small businesses can get together and buy expensive insurance together, if we’re all healthy. HUH?
“Restrictions on companies that aim to protect consumers are expanded to add new protections, such as prohibiting all annual and lifetime limits, and ban pre-existing condition exclusions, among others.”
You can not remove the pre-existing condition exclusion. This negates the entire point of insurance. Who would buy coverage now if they could wait until they found out something was wrong and buy it then. I wonder if someone could explain insurance 101 to the government before they shove this stupid plan down throats of the American people.
Ok I have a question on the pre-existing condition debate. Let’s say someone with no insurance breaks their leg and then buys a policy after the fact hoping to get their expenses relating to their broken leg covered. Obviously that defeats the purpose of insurance. I get that. Here’s another scenario. I was recently diagnosed with a common condition that will require me to take medication for the rest of my life. If I were to change jobs and get new health insurance, would my medication be denied by my new carrier under the current laws of pre-existing conditions?
Someone needs to keep the “vision” in mind. Think outside the box and figure out a way to make this work instead of complaining about how it won’t. When Kennedy announced we would have a man on the moon in 10 years… there was no detail. The creative minds figured it out and ignored the critics who said it couldn’t be done. 3rd world countries have figured this out, yet we can’t? Sad! I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago. I couldn’t find insurance in the private market for me and my children. #1 because I had been to a councelor in the past 6 months… and #2 because my daughter had scoliosis. I had no choice but to go through cobra at a cost of more than $900 per month. More than my mortgage. My daughter ended up having spine surgery at the cost of $170,000. I don’t know of too many people who can afford that. Those of you who are being so critical about the need to provide every citizen in this great country of ours with health care have clearly never been challenged by it.
Sooo you guys are saying the whole country is full of maniacs who are out to hurt themselves in order to make their money’s worth when they get insurance coverage…
EVERYBODY NEED TO GO IN THE SAME BOAT IF THE INSURANCE COMPANY CUTS THEIR PREMIUM,THE GOVERMENT PAY SOMETHING AND THE DOCTOR CUT THEIR PRICE SERVICES MAYBE THIS WORK FOR EVERYBODY I AM AN INSURANCE AGENT AND I THINK THIS IS THE SOLUTION. ANY PERSON WHO HAVE ANY PREEXISTING CONDITION NEED TO BE COVER BUT PAYING A LITTLE MORE AND GOVERMENT PAYING MORE TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY YOU KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT
No one is saying maniacs are going to be out to get their money’s worth from health insurance claims. The larger point deasl with the foundation of insurance, which is to provide protection in the event something unforseen or unknown would happen to you at a future point while insurance is in force. You simply can’t insure a known event, conditon or outcome. You can only trade dollars or subsidize events if they are already known.
I’m no expert on health insurance but on the p&c side, if we see a house that was partially burned and rebuilt a year ago, we tend to apply surcharge for their claim, but provide coverage still.. Because it’s mandatory coverage, people try not to burn their houses again and be CAREFUL since they know they will be penalized even more if they burn their house again.
That’s why the coverage should be mandatory for everyone regardless of how healthy they are.
I’m not sure about that P&C example. I had a pipe break (due to hurricane, but that’s another story) I replaced EVERY PIPE in the house. All valves, pans, everything. So, therefore no more floods, right? So why would no one insure me for 3 years? Seems to me if pipes and all plumbing in entire house were new- (again, hurricane damage to most of the house) why would I be a risk for another flood? Had permits, inspections, etc. No question everything had been replaced.
But ITA that mandatory coverage is necessary. It’s the only way to eliminate the pre-existing clause.
I’ve noticed the same people who feel insurance should not be mandatory are the same ones who feel helmets and seat belts should be mandatory. Can’t have it both ways.
BTW- when seat belts became mandatory, the price of seat belts went up 250%. So yes, if it’s mandatory it should be price controlled.
who knows what the underwriters based their decision on.. It could be as easy as the fact that the owner hasn’t changed, therefore they thought it’s risky.. :)
I agree the price has to be controlled, and that’s where the government comes in, they should be regulating the price and company practices.
Not trusting the government can no longer be our excuse. We should take charge and start educating ourselves so we can elect well educated representatives rather than people we wish we could have beer with and those representatives could be serious about serving their country rather than worrying about their next term on the first day of their current term and actually get some work done..
big dog, the site is called “insurance journal” not “grammar teachers unite”
leave your stupid remarks to yourself and comment on the issues, otherwise just get a life!!
those people would make it to the ballot.
It’s puzzling and disturbing to me that only the far wing nuts are getting airtime. Pelosi, Reid, Palin, Rush, etc.
Normal middle of the road candidates aka SANE – like Ron Paul just don’t seem to generate the headlines. Or the support of either party.
Our choices suck. And, unfortunately, our voters don’t vote the actual issues that effect the US as a country. They vote in anger, they vote for/against gay marriage or abortion. They don’t actually look at the taxes, insurance, other things that are ‘petty’ to them.
Don’t try to disagree- if the voters actually looked beyond their anger or bible those wing nuts would be on the Springer show instead of making policies on Capital Hill. Or comming dangerously close to running our country.
Yes—-it’s true that when the FAR LEFT starts running things, the FAR RIGHT comes out of the woodwork! However, why do you consider PALIN to be FAR RIGHT? She may not be qualified to be President (even though more experienced than Obama) but she’s just common sense to me.
that you would show up just at the time we were talking about how education is important while you select your candidate..
Larry you need to educate yourself in the differences of ivy league education from all the other colleges.. We may not like the people who attend those colleges, but we should admit we’d all want our kids to go to one..
It’s speaking volumes to me about your education when you think Palin is more experienced than Obama, sorry but you need to do more reading.
I am sorry for the medical issues you went through with your daughter.
That said a couple of things need to be challenged. There is not a shortage of medical care-frankly we have an abundance of doctors in virtually any specialty you can name. The issue is not really the insurance-and there is also no shortage of insurance companies willing to sell it to you.
The issue is cost-and that is where the rub comes. It is expensive but that is only because doctors can charge a great deal of money for their services. If consumers dealt directly with their doctor regarding cost-which most are not willing to do-and if the supply of doctors we greatly increased-say 2 or 3 times the number we have now-and they advbertised their fees just like for most other good or service, then Sherry you might not have the money woes you do.
But please know the system for what it is and not take it for some god given right for which some unseen “someone else” pays the tab and not you the buyer of the service.
She had no opinon on healthcare, taxes, foreign relations. The only thing I’ve ever heard her do is make fun of her opponents. No actual ideas to counter. Her position that no abortion for any reason puts me off. (yes, she stated a teenage victim of incestual rape should be forced have her child- THAT alone was enough for me to turn her off) Her abstinence only education stance is not only hypocritical, it’s dangerous. Like she feels that her way of thinking is the only way- no compromise. That WAS her platform. The pipeline situation gave us a hint of what her governing style was, yet she offered no explanation or resolution. Her ‘lets succede from the United States’ husband was way too involved in policy making and her political enemies were too close to her sister’s enemies. We already have too many politicians handing over jobs and votes to lobbyists. The last thing we need is a politician that would actually create a law or situation because of an ex brother in law. Bad enough we went to war over a Daddy Issue in Iraq. Plus her ongoing feud with Levi is just ignorant. On both sides.
I was really leaning towards McCain until I heard her speak. Then I was totally disgusted with the entire process.
Yes, I do believe it is my God given right and a right as a citizen of this country. This seems so obvious to me. We are all part of the “human race” and must be entitled to receive care when we are sick, regardless of our economic position. The son of a gas station attendent must be able to receive chemo for his cancer the same as the president of a major corporation. We cannot claim to be the greatest nation on this planet until we treat everyone with common respect and dignity.
Dawn: Could not agree more. Palin is a lying, self-serving, uneducated, cynical, fake, who other who prefer incitement over actually thinking through problems love to follow. The truth hurts.
Regarding health care, the single payor idea was by far the best. This is what those who study this (who won’t lose millions be suggesting it) think. It is most efficient, provides the biggest risk pool (which lowers costs by broadly speading the risk), and does the best job of distributing subsidies where they are needed. (For those who follow Palin, let me explain that our current system provides enormous subsidies already, but just very poorly.)
If we can’t do single payor, the closer we get to that the better.
Like to provide those shining example of single business entities that the government has run – mail, rail And they ware so efficient!
Look at history – regulations were put in place to restrict monopolies because they are bad for the country. Competition in a free market drives prices down – the artificial dictates of government to drive down prices only result in poor quality, or bankruptcy.
Do you really want just 1 agency deciding what they will pay a doctor for service or whether you get a procedure or not? I want a choice of plans
Health care is the responsibilty of the individual – it is not a right that the country should provide!
Big Dog, thank you for sticking up for proper grammar. When something is sloppily written, it is really difficult to understand what the person is trying to say. That’s not “stupid,” it’s just the equivalent of asking someone to please not talk with their mouth full, or telling someone on a cellphone, “Hey, you’re breaking up, I can’t hear you.” I want to understand people’s posts without wading through third-grade level writing, so please write plainly! Thank you.
Susan, I’m guessing you’ve never had a family member die while waiting for treatment they couldn’t afford. I strongly disagree. It is a right for everyone… even you.
and what another person is or is not is not my responsibility or your business either.
I have had plenty of friends, relatives with health issues – I have always paid for health insurance even if it was cobra for just the fact you state – an emergency or illness. And it wasn’t easy making room for the payment- but it was my responsibilty to my family to take care of them. I am tired of people saying it is the government’s job to take care of them. Surgeon’s & hospitals make arrangements to reduce bills and take payments – I may be lucky, but no one denied me care because of my ability to pay.
If anything passes, it should be to promote competition across state lines. Provide a parachute payment system or loan for those caught with catastrophic illness, and keep the unscrupulous insurance companies from denying insurance
coverage.
Before you throw government out the window, for Christ’s sake, think!
Using your example, how many packages can you send under a dollar with Fed-X. And don’t kid yourself, a good 60 to 70% of healthcare is already paid by government subsidy. The idea is to make it more efficient. Opponents of this are blindly giving those who are making it less efficient (and more costly) the ultimate control (and profits). Why can’t anyone recognize that the insurance industry is spending billions to protect this and promote anti-government sentiment. It’s the Irag war all over again, where the republicans are very glad to sell off our country in order to get the big bucks from the defense contractors, oil companies and now insurance. Your blind if you can’t see this.
Amen Big Turtle! He’s the only politician who has had the guts to expose this. Now he is getting bogged down in red tape by special interests groups and the compromises have begun. By the time it is all said and done, they’ll either wear him down or the result will be unrecognizable from the vision.
For those of you who are critics, have you ever seen the congressional testimony of Linda Peeno? She is a physician who worked for an HMO in the 90s. She testified before congress in ’96 admitting her actions caused the death of a man. She was subsequently promoted by the HMO for saving them 1/2 million dollars. This isn’t some 3rd party person with an “opinion”. She lived it and regretted it.
This goes beyond big business. It is about common human dignity to our fellow mankind.
Everyone seems to think that they’re ENTITLED to free healthcare. Guess what folks…healthcare isn’t free. Doctors don’t work for free. Nurses, anesthesiologists, surgical techs, NP’s, PA’s, equipment manufacturers, providers, etc. don’t work for free. Hospitals don’t provide care for free.
It costs MONEY (lots of it in fact) to become a doctor. It costs MONEY to run a hospital and keep it up to standards.
My first question to all of you who think that you are ENTITLED to free healthcare is this – who’s going to pay for it?
My second question to all of you who think you are ENTITLED to free healthcare is – what makes you so special that you should get free healthcare, and the rest of us pay for it ourselves through our premiums, deductibles and co-pay’s?
I certainly never said FREE. I believe the words were AFFORDABLE and AVAILABLE. Denmark has one of the highest tax rates in the world. Yet they are one of the least stressful societies and they feel their 40% tax rate is a bargain. Health care isn’t FREE, they are certainly paying for it with their high taxes. Yet they are happy, imagine that. Of course this 40% doesn’t go to pay for health care alone, there are other benefits, like education. The problem is someone feels they are going to be cheated somewhere in the system. Would I be willing to pay 40% tax if it meant I wouldn’t have to worry about health care or education… and EVERYONE paid the same 40%. Absolutely.
ITA, Sherry. But in order for working people to agree to that there would have to be major changes in welfare and how we deal with illegals.
I’ve always believed in drug testing for welfare. I’d put them to work- you collect a welfare check, WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, you put in hours. At a school, library, cleaning toilets in the park, washing clothes in a shelter, any kind of community service. That simple. No more sitting around breeding and direct deposit on your welfare checks.
Illegals? Close the borders. No more handouts. Just because you can waddle your preggo butt over the border and squat doesn’t mean you get to live off my dime. All illegals should get out of my 40% is a bus ticket back across the border. And notification to the Mexican gov’t that they are there, so if they are not Mexican nationals they will be dealt with. Mexico REALLY hates illegals from their south, so that should take care of that. $250K fine and mandatory 6mths in prison for hiring illegals. For each illegal and every day they worked. That should end their reason for coming.
Everyone pays. No tax havens, no loop holes. You make $40K, you pay the same percentage as someone who make $40M.
If we did all that taxes wouldn’t have to be 40%.
Whether our senators and congressman do what is moral and right for human beings is not going to stop what is about to occur. It is really too late. This war we’re fighting is going to get much worse. Much much worse.
The insurance industry is woven too tightly into our economy. They are owned and being controlled by sinister forces. Driven not only by greed but for the purpose of collapsing our economy. They have paid and duped too many fools and they (corporate giant shareholders) have succeeded in the ultimate confusion.
People don’t understand how the insurance industry works or who actually controls the industry and there isn’t time to teach them. It only took me 20 years, and I know things that people who have been inside the industry for longer still don’t understand. They just can’t put two and two together.
ANd even if they and you could understand it now. It’s too late and it’s so simple they would reject it. Unfortunately people are conditioned to believe that if it isn’t complicated it dosen’t make sense.
WE’re going to have a revolution alright but people won’t know exactly what they’re fighting for this time.
THey’ll think they will be fighting for freedom but this will not be the case. Unfortunately.
It’s all over.
Even the rich will lose. How do I know this? Simple, they won’t be able to hide. Even our rich gov’t officials and elite won’t be able to escape to their underground sanctuaries. They in fact will suffer the most because of their wealth. Remember Kuwait and what Saddam did to the Royal families? This is going to occur on a much larger scale world wide.
This is why there has been money buy the trillions disappearing since Bush. THey think they’re going to make a great escape.
Trust Sheltowee when he says “you will be better protected under a blanket of the nights sky, the arms of a great tree, an earth’s warm cloak and muddy water”.
Don’t try to hang on to your wealthy possesions. It will only bring on your demise.
Get ready.
Oh and Big Dog. Things wouldn’t be so expensive if greed wasn’t the cause. Medical School has become a big money making, stinking pig hole. It attracks mainly the greedy, who want to get rich being a doctor. Forget about healing people, it’s all about the money, money, money. OINK OINK OINK
If society can’t function humainly then it will collapse. It always has and always will.
“I’m guessing you’ve never had a family member die while waiting for treatment they couldn’t afford”
Sherry, are you saying doctors refused service because the family member could not pay? That’s not permitted by law in the USA. However, in Canada & England it happens all the time because the government single payer system cannot afford to pay!
Only someone in grade school would compare the non-melting pot of Denmark with a population of 5,641,000 to the melting pot of the USA with a population of 300,000,000
My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis. It’s a challenge.
I disagree with the Federal government providing (or mandating) insurance coverage for all. Reforms need to be made that reduce the cost of health care, and thus health insurance without creating new and/or expanded Federal government bureaucracies.
Life sucks… It’s been five years; get a job, and pay for your oun health care!
“I’ve noticed the same people who feel insurance should not be mandatory are the same ones who feel helmets and seat belts should be mandatory. Can’t have it both ways.”
Do ANY of you know the difference between Federal law and State law, or even thought about reading the Costitution?
I’m not talking about State vs Fed vs Constitution. I’m talking about Gov’t taking over –
I’m talking about people insisting that the Gov’t force some to do things to protect themselves, but screaming bloody murder when the table gets turned on them. Saying that motorcycle riders have to wear a helmet- those that don’t ride think it’s great to force these people to protect their heads even if they don’t want to. Same goes for mandated insurance for motorcycles. BUT, now that the Gov’t is talking about forcing them to protect themselves with health insurance, they cry that it’s not fair.
Once you applaud big brother getting involved, you don’t get to scream ‘time out’ when they turn the tables on you.
I said that when the whole anti-smoking crap started. When an owner of a bar can’t make the smoking/non smoking decision for themselves it was the start. But too many people were cheering for anyone with a level head to be heard.
For those that are waiting, how many Canadians are lined up ahead of them? National health care in Canada, if it is
so great, why are they coming to the US?
They don’t like waiting in line either, so apparently national health care isn’t the answer for that excuse.
Let me say this… I am not for Big Brother getting involved. State government mandates dictating minimum coverage for health insurance policies sold in their state are one of the reasons health insurance costs have skyrocketed.
People need the option to purchase major medical policies that do not cover all of the routine exams and preventative procedures the state mandates require. If insurers were able to sell a wide range of policies, from bare bones to “Cadillac” coverage, premiums would be more reasonable, people would be more likely to purchase insurance and maintain insurance at a younger age, and pre-existing conditions would be less of an issue.
There are reforms needed, such as preventing insureds from being dropped when they get sick, but not a complete revamping/takeover of the health insurance/health care system. Insurance is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events. My annual check-up should not be covered by my insurance policy; it’s an expected expense!
Geez, Stop stereotyping people. I have a job thank you very much. I said I lost my job 5 years ago, I didn’t say I’m still unemployed. I’ve never been without health care. Even during the 4 months I was unemployed I paid the more than $900. a month for COBRA while actively looking for… and landing a job. I’ve worked my butt off, paid taxes and health care since the age of 14. Why must you think anyone with an opinion other than your own is unemployed, uneducated and an uninsured loser. You’ve gotten way off topic and turned to insults for people you’ve never met. Think about it.
“I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago.”
No where in your post did you even hint that you were now employed. No, just “lost her job about 5 years ago”, and went on to whine about your situation.
And don’t be so high and mighty… from your current post, you said, “Why must you think anyone with an opinion other than your own is unemployed, uneducated and an uninsured loser.” Why? Again, you posted “I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago.”
In your original post you stated,
“Those of you who are being so critical about the need to provide every citizen in this great country of ours with health care have clearly never been challenged by it.” implying that only you and your opinion are valid because you’ve lived it. Well, so have I, and I don’t believe in health care as a right!
To quote you:
Insurance is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events.
That’s a completely wrong assumption on the part of everyone involved. Nothing regarding health insurance follows any other type of insurance- except maybe life. At least with Life Insurance you KNOW you’re going to die at some point.
Insurance on your house is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events. You can live in a house for decades with no fires, thefts, etc. Same goes for cars.
But unless you are hit by a bus and killed instantly at a very young age, you WILL incur health issues and you WILL incur substantial health care bills. That’s not an unknown or an unexpected. Yes, having them at a relatively young age is unexpected- but the fact that hospitals/doctors bill in the hundreds of thousands is the unexpected part. I had a hysterectomy. Everything went fine. Until I picked up MRSA in the hospital. 2 more surgeries and almost $100K later I’m going to be 6 months to a year recovering from a preventable illness- but not preventable by ME. The hospital could have and should have prevented this. Yet my insurance company has paid them thousands to fix it. Why isn’t theirs picking up this tab? $1.8B a year spent on PREVENTABLE post-op infections killing 48,000 people a year.
If my house burned down because I left a lit cigarette on the sofa my insurance goes up and I can’t get written for years. If the hospital isn’t sterile and they MAKE $1B from infecting people, where is their incentive to stop? My health insurance went up 22% this year. Loss Mod – hello? I didn’t cause the MRSA.
My point is that if it’s going to be insurance, fine. Treat it as such. BC/BS should subrogate against the hospital for every post-op infection that involved STAPH or MRSA. Maybe then hospitals would clean up. Insurance companies can give us blood tests for alcohol drugs, nicotine, watch our every move to surcharge the second we step out of line. Or we move to a system that has come common sense regarding the fact that people are going to get cancer, people are going to get sick, some people are going to be chronically sick through no fault of their own, people are going to require surgeries, and are going to have large bills and we deal with it as a country. A guy sitting behind a desk that makes a bonus everytime someone dies from a denied claim is NOT the way a civilized nation should be behaving.
Why does it have to be one way or the other. France seems to have a well run hybrid that most of their citizens are happy with.
You’ve nailed it on the head. Insurance companies are entitled to accoutability and a right to subrogate for preventable errors against the mal practice insurers. Right?
ALTHOUGH, One could say that you will more then likely have a P & C claim of an amount of $5000 or higher in your lifetime and one could say I might die before I actually get sick and incur hospital bills.
So I do beieve that there is a generality amoung the insurers every line.
AND BUT each line may require regulation that is suitable for that line.
Sherry-You do a good job of avoiding the issues.
I agree that all have the right to get the measures they want and need.
That “right” as you call it does not extend to me as a taxpayer to help pay for it.
Instead of making me, a disinterested 3rd party to the matter someone who should now pay is wrong. Go to the ones charging the amounts of money they are and ask for a better deal. They have skin in the game. I do, nor should I have any financial or otherwise.
Just catching up as I missed a few days. I agree 100% with the grammar police. Poorly written posts that then tout being an insurance agent put all insurance professionals in a bad light. Proofread your posts.
Not sure WTH you’re talking about, Wally.
Move to France is the stock answer for what? Asking that hospitals be held accountable for protecting patients? For stating that health is not and should not be held to the same assumptions as P&C?
You’re a bit vague, here. Or is that just the best you can do?
YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT. And the insurance industry and drug makers need to wise up and realize you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.
The insurance industry is on a self destructive path. They want a world where they can insure you until you get sick, then and then they want to get rid of you. They want ultimate control. And even when they do have you insured, they want to tell you what they will cover and what they won’t.
Medicaid and Medicare provides better health care coverage then my expensive Aetna plan. My premiums went up $300 per month, and I now have no preventive care. Bummer. I’m getting to the point that as soon as my daughter and son have their own insurance. I don’t want any. I ‘ll transfer all my assets in a trust and I’ll go without coverage and croak. This is what the insurance companies want anyway. They only want to pretend that they are selling health insurance to help you. The truth is they just want your dollars (and a lot of it) while your healthy but they want to boot you out before you get old and sick.
HE’s not afraid to expose the corruption, even in his own party. He’s going to do it too if they don’t work together and get this done for us. FOR ME. I’m sick of being sick. THe truth is that the insurance industry has been dictating our health care, and driving our small businesses out of business, because they try to struggle paying the high cost of insurance unitl . . . until what. Duh they can’t afford it anymore but in the meantime they lowered the quality of the product or service they provide. Thus their business, once a unique, high quality company died a slow death. NO MO MONEY
AND it a cuz there is no competition. DUR..blirp. maybe me go buy insurance in Tennessee cheap cheap. hee hee. OR maybe we small businesses can get together and buy expensive insurance together, if we’re all healthy. HUH?
Winners: Anyone who can use the coercive (i.e., violence initiating) power of government to take wealth from others and give it to them.
Losers: Anyone who gets their wealth/property stolen by government to give to the “winners.”
Any questions?
They left out the two biggest losers – the American taxpayer and the quality of health care in America.
OK. I’ve got it!
“Restrictions on companies that aim to protect consumers are expanded to add new protections, such as prohibiting all annual and lifetime limits, and ban pre-existing condition exclusions, among others.”
You can not remove the pre-existing condition exclusion. This negates the entire point of insurance. Who would buy coverage now if they could wait until they found out something was wrong and buy it then. I wonder if someone could explain insurance 101 to the government before they shove this stupid plan down throats of the American people.
Ok I have a question on the pre-existing condition debate. Let’s say someone with no insurance breaks their leg and then buys a policy after the fact hoping to get their expenses relating to their broken leg covered. Obviously that defeats the purpose of insurance. I get that. Here’s another scenario. I was recently diagnosed with a common condition that will require me to take medication for the rest of my life. If I were to change jobs and get new health insurance, would my medication be denied by my new carrier under the current laws of pre-existing conditions?
I could not agree more with you Jen!
Someone needs to keep the “vision” in mind. Think outside the box and figure out a way to make this work instead of complaining about how it won’t. When Kennedy announced we would have a man on the moon in 10 years… there was no detail. The creative minds figured it out and ignored the critics who said it couldn’t be done. 3rd world countries have figured this out, yet we can’t? Sad! I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago. I couldn’t find insurance in the private market for me and my children. #1 because I had been to a councelor in the past 6 months… and #2 because my daughter had scoliosis. I had no choice but to go through cobra at a cost of more than $900 per month. More than my mortgage. My daughter ended up having spine surgery at the cost of $170,000. I don’t know of too many people who can afford that. Those of you who are being so critical about the need to provide every citizen in this great country of ours with health care have clearly never been challenged by it.
Sooo you guys are saying the whole country is full of maniacs who are out to hurt themselves in order to make their money’s worth when they get insurance coverage…
EVERYBODY NEED TO GO IN THE SAME BOAT IF THE INSURANCE COMPANY CUTS THEIR PREMIUM,THE GOVERMENT PAY SOMETHING AND THE DOCTOR CUT THEIR PRICE SERVICES MAYBE THIS WORK FOR EVERYBODY I AM AN INSURANCE AGENT AND I THINK THIS IS THE SOLUTION. ANY PERSON WHO HAVE ANY PREEXISTING CONDITION NEED TO BE COVER BUT PAYING A LITTLE MORE AND GOVERMENT PAYING MORE TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY YOU KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT
No one is saying maniacs are going to be out to get their money’s worth from health insurance claims. The larger point deasl with the foundation of insurance, which is to provide protection in the event something unforseen or unknown would happen to you at a future point while insurance is in force. You simply can’t insure a known event, conditon or outcome. You can only trade dollars or subsidize events if they are already known.
I’m no expert on health insurance but on the p&c side, if we see a house that was partially burned and rebuilt a year ago, we tend to apply surcharge for their claim, but provide coverage still.. Because it’s mandatory coverage, people try not to burn their houses again and be CAREFUL since they know they will be penalized even more if they burn their house again.
That’s why the coverage should be mandatory for everyone regardless of how healthy they are.
I’m not sure about that P&C example. I had a pipe break (due to hurricane, but that’s another story) I replaced EVERY PIPE in the house. All valves, pans, everything. So, therefore no more floods, right? So why would no one insure me for 3 years? Seems to me if pipes and all plumbing in entire house were new- (again, hurricane damage to most of the house) why would I be a risk for another flood? Had permits, inspections, etc. No question everything had been replaced.
But ITA that mandatory coverage is necessary. It’s the only way to eliminate the pre-existing clause.
I’ve noticed the same people who feel insurance should not be mandatory are the same ones who feel helmets and seat belts should be mandatory. Can’t have it both ways.
BTW- when seat belts became mandatory, the price of seat belts went up 250%. So yes, if it’s mandatory it should be price controlled.
You do realize that typing in all CAPITALS is considered “yelling”, right?
Also, if you’re an insurance agent, I’d suggest learning basic English and grammar to avoid being misunderstood.
who knows what the underwriters based their decision on.. It could be as easy as the fact that the owner hasn’t changed, therefore they thought it’s risky.. :)
I agree the price has to be controlled, and that’s where the government comes in, they should be regulating the price and company practices.
Not trusting the government can no longer be our excuse. We should take charge and start educating ourselves so we can elect well educated representatives rather than people we wish we could have beer with and those representatives could be serious about serving their country rather than worrying about their next term on the first day of their current term and actually get some work done..
big dog, the site is called “insurance journal” not “grammar teachers unite”
leave your stupid remarks to yourself and comment on the issues, otherwise just get a life!!
those people would make it to the ballot.
It’s puzzling and disturbing to me that only the far wing nuts are getting airtime. Pelosi, Reid, Palin, Rush, etc.
Normal middle of the road candidates aka SANE – like Ron Paul just don’t seem to generate the headlines. Or the support of either party.
Our choices suck. And, unfortunately, our voters don’t vote the actual issues that effect the US as a country. They vote in anger, they vote for/against gay marriage or abortion. They don’t actually look at the taxes, insurance, other things that are ‘petty’ to them.
Don’t try to disagree- if the voters actually looked beyond their anger or bible those wing nuts would be on the Springer show instead of making policies on Capital Hill. Or comming dangerously close to running our country.
Yes—-it’s true that when the FAR LEFT starts running things, the FAR RIGHT comes out of the woodwork! However, why do you consider PALIN to be FAR RIGHT? She may not be qualified to be President (even though more experienced than Obama) but she’s just common sense to me.
that you would show up just at the time we were talking about how education is important while you select your candidate..
Larry you need to educate yourself in the differences of ivy league education from all the other colleges.. We may not like the people who attend those colleges, but we should admit we’d all want our kids to go to one..
It’s speaking volumes to me about your education when you think Palin is more experienced than Obama, sorry but you need to do more reading.
I am sorry for the medical issues you went through with your daughter.
That said a couple of things need to be challenged. There is not a shortage of medical care-frankly we have an abundance of doctors in virtually any specialty you can name. The issue is not really the insurance-and there is also no shortage of insurance companies willing to sell it to you.
The issue is cost-and that is where the rub comes. It is expensive but that is only because doctors can charge a great deal of money for their services. If consumers dealt directly with their doctor regarding cost-which most are not willing to do-and if the supply of doctors we greatly increased-say 2 or 3 times the number we have now-and they advbertised their fees just like for most other good or service, then Sherry you might not have the money woes you do.
But please know the system for what it is and not take it for some god given right for which some unseen “someone else” pays the tab and not you the buyer of the service.
She had no opinon on healthcare, taxes, foreign relations. The only thing I’ve ever heard her do is make fun of her opponents. No actual ideas to counter. Her position that no abortion for any reason puts me off. (yes, she stated a teenage victim of incestual rape should be forced have her child- THAT alone was enough for me to turn her off) Her abstinence only education stance is not only hypocritical, it’s dangerous. Like she feels that her way of thinking is the only way- no compromise. That WAS her platform. The pipeline situation gave us a hint of what her governing style was, yet she offered no explanation or resolution. Her ‘lets succede from the United States’ husband was way too involved in policy making and her political enemies were too close to her sister’s enemies. We already have too many politicians handing over jobs and votes to lobbyists. The last thing we need is a politician that would actually create a law or situation because of an ex brother in law. Bad enough we went to war over a Daddy Issue in Iraq. Plus her ongoing feud with Levi is just ignorant. On both sides.
I was really leaning towards McCain until I heard her speak. Then I was totally disgusted with the entire process.
Yes, I do believe it is my God given right and a right as a citizen of this country. This seems so obvious to me. We are all part of the “human race” and must be entitled to receive care when we are sick, regardless of our economic position. The son of a gas station attendent must be able to receive chemo for his cancer the same as the president of a major corporation. We cannot claim to be the greatest nation on this planet until we treat everyone with common respect and dignity.
Dawn: Could not agree more. Palin is a lying, self-serving, uneducated, cynical, fake, who other who prefer incitement over actually thinking through problems love to follow. The truth hurts.
Regarding health care, the single payor idea was by far the best. This is what those who study this (who won’t lose millions be suggesting it) think. It is most efficient, provides the biggest risk pool (which lowers costs by broadly speading the risk), and does the best job of distributing subsidies where they are needed. (For those who follow Palin, let me explain that our current system provides enormous subsidies already, but just very poorly.)
If we can’t do single payor, the closer we get to that the better.
Like to provide those shining example of single business entities that the government has run – mail, rail And they ware so efficient!
Look at history – regulations were put in place to restrict monopolies because they are bad for the country. Competition in a free market drives prices down – the artificial dictates of government to drive down prices only result in poor quality, or bankruptcy.
Do you really want just 1 agency deciding what they will pay a doctor for service or whether you get a procedure or not? I want a choice of plans
Health care is the responsibilty of the individual – it is not a right that the country should provide!
Big Dog, thank you for sticking up for proper grammar. When something is sloppily written, it is really difficult to understand what the person is trying to say. That’s not “stupid,” it’s just the equivalent of asking someone to please not talk with their mouth full, or telling someone on a cellphone, “Hey, you’re breaking up, I can’t hear you.” I want to understand people’s posts without wading through third-grade level writing, so please write plainly! Thank you.
Susan, I’m guessing you’ve never had a family member die while waiting for treatment they couldn’t afford. I strongly disagree. It is a right for everyone… even you.
Susan look around you and see how many responsible people you’ll find.. Obesity is a disease invented by the American people. Who are you kidding?
and what another person is or is not is not my responsibility or your business either.
I have had plenty of friends, relatives with health issues – I have always paid for health insurance even if it was cobra for just the fact you state – an emergency or illness. And it wasn’t easy making room for the payment- but it was my responsibilty to my family to take care of them. I am tired of people saying it is the government’s job to take care of them. Surgeon’s & hospitals make arrangements to reduce bills and take payments – I may be lucky, but no one denied me care because of my ability to pay.
If anything passes, it should be to promote competition across state lines. Provide a parachute payment system or loan for those caught with catastrophic illness, and keep the unscrupulous insurance companies from denying insurance
coverage.
Before you throw government out the window, for Christ’s sake, think!
Using your example, how many packages can you send under a dollar with Fed-X. And don’t kid yourself, a good 60 to 70% of healthcare is already paid by government subsidy. The idea is to make it more efficient. Opponents of this are blindly giving those who are making it less efficient (and more costly) the ultimate control (and profits). Why can’t anyone recognize that the insurance industry is spending billions to protect this and promote anti-government sentiment. It’s the Irag war all over again, where the republicans are very glad to sell off our country in order to get the big bucks from the defense contractors, oil companies and now insurance. Your blind if you can’t see this.
Amen Big Turtle! He’s the only politician who has had the guts to expose this. Now he is getting bogged down in red tape by special interests groups and the compromises have begun. By the time it is all said and done, they’ll either wear him down or the result will be unrecognizable from the vision.
For those of you who are critics, have you ever seen the congressional testimony of Linda Peeno? She is a physician who worked for an HMO in the 90s. She testified before congress in ’96 admitting her actions caused the death of a man. She was subsequently promoted by the HMO for saving them 1/2 million dollars. This isn’t some 3rd party person with an “opinion”. She lived it and regretted it.
This goes beyond big business. It is about common human dignity to our fellow mankind.
Everyone seems to think that they’re ENTITLED to free healthcare. Guess what folks…healthcare isn’t free. Doctors don’t work for free. Nurses, anesthesiologists, surgical techs, NP’s, PA’s, equipment manufacturers, providers, etc. don’t work for free. Hospitals don’t provide care for free.
It costs MONEY (lots of it in fact) to become a doctor. It costs MONEY to run a hospital and keep it up to standards.
My first question to all of you who think that you are ENTITLED to free healthcare is this – who’s going to pay for it?
My second question to all of you who think you are ENTITLED to free healthcare is – what makes you so special that you should get free healthcare, and the rest of us pay for it ourselves through our premiums, deductibles and co-pay’s?
I certainly never said FREE. I believe the words were AFFORDABLE and AVAILABLE. Denmark has one of the highest tax rates in the world. Yet they are one of the least stressful societies and they feel their 40% tax rate is a bargain. Health care isn’t FREE, they are certainly paying for it with their high taxes. Yet they are happy, imagine that. Of course this 40% doesn’t go to pay for health care alone, there are other benefits, like education. The problem is someone feels they are going to be cheated somewhere in the system. Would I be willing to pay 40% tax if it meant I wouldn’t have to worry about health care or education… and EVERYONE paid the same 40%. Absolutely.
ITA, Sherry. But in order for working people to agree to that there would have to be major changes in welfare and how we deal with illegals.
I’ve always believed in drug testing for welfare. I’d put them to work- you collect a welfare check, WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, you put in hours. At a school, library, cleaning toilets in the park, washing clothes in a shelter, any kind of community service. That simple. No more sitting around breeding and direct deposit on your welfare checks.
Illegals? Close the borders. No more handouts. Just because you can waddle your preggo butt over the border and squat doesn’t mean you get to live off my dime. All illegals should get out of my 40% is a bus ticket back across the border. And notification to the Mexican gov’t that they are there, so if they are not Mexican nationals they will be dealt with. Mexico REALLY hates illegals from their south, so that should take care of that. $250K fine and mandatory 6mths in prison for hiring illegals. For each illegal and every day they worked. That should end their reason for coming.
Everyone pays. No tax havens, no loop holes. You make $40K, you pay the same percentage as someone who make $40M.
If we did all that taxes wouldn’t have to be 40%.
So, move to Denmark.
Whether our senators and congressman do what is moral and right for human beings is not going to stop what is about to occur. It is really too late. This war we’re fighting is going to get much worse. Much much worse.
The insurance industry is woven too tightly into our economy. They are owned and being controlled by sinister forces. Driven not only by greed but for the purpose of collapsing our economy. They have paid and duped too many fools and they (corporate giant shareholders) have succeeded in the ultimate confusion.
People don’t understand how the insurance industry works or who actually controls the industry and there isn’t time to teach them. It only took me 20 years, and I know things that people who have been inside the industry for longer still don’t understand. They just can’t put two and two together.
ANd even if they and you could understand it now. It’s too late and it’s so simple they would reject it. Unfortunately people are conditioned to believe that if it isn’t complicated it dosen’t make sense.
WE’re going to have a revolution alright but people won’t know exactly what they’re fighting for this time.
THey’ll think they will be fighting for freedom but this will not be the case. Unfortunately.
It’s all over.
Even the rich will lose. How do I know this? Simple, they won’t be able to hide. Even our rich gov’t officials and elite won’t be able to escape to their underground sanctuaries. They in fact will suffer the most because of their wealth. Remember Kuwait and what Saddam did to the Royal families? This is going to occur on a much larger scale world wide.
This is why there has been money buy the trillions disappearing since Bush. THey think they’re going to make a great escape.
Trust Sheltowee when he says “you will be better protected under a blanket of the nights sky, the arms of a great tree, an earth’s warm cloak and muddy water”.
Don’t try to hang on to your wealthy possesions. It will only bring on your demise.
Get ready.
Oh and Big Dog. Things wouldn’t be so expensive if greed wasn’t the cause. Medical School has become a big money making, stinking pig hole. It attracks mainly the greedy, who want to get rich being a doctor. Forget about healing people, it’s all about the money, money, money. OINK OINK OINK
If society can’t function humainly then it will collapse. It always has and always will.
It’s been a long long time but not that long.
If you’re not scared yet. You will be.
“I’m guessing you’ve never had a family member die while waiting for treatment they couldn’t afford”
Sherry, are you saying doctors refused service because the family member could not pay? That’s not permitted by law in the USA. However, in Canada & England it happens all the time because the government single payer system cannot afford to pay!
Only someone in grade school would compare the non-melting pot of Denmark with a population of 5,641,000 to the melting pot of the USA with a population of 300,000,000
What a load of old codswallop!
Sherry,
My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis. It’s a challenge.
I disagree with the Federal government providing (or mandating) insurance coverage for all. Reforms need to be made that reduce the cost of health care, and thus health insurance without creating new and/or expanded Federal government bureaucracies.
Life sucks… It’s been five years; get a job, and pay for your oun health care!
“I’ve noticed the same people who feel insurance should not be mandatory are the same ones who feel helmets and seat belts should be mandatory. Can’t have it both ways.”
Do ANY of you know the difference between Federal law and State law, or even thought about reading the Costitution?
I’m not talking about State vs Fed vs Constitution. I’m talking about Gov’t taking over –
I’m talking about people insisting that the Gov’t force some to do things to protect themselves, but screaming bloody murder when the table gets turned on them. Saying that motorcycle riders have to wear a helmet- those that don’t ride think it’s great to force these people to protect their heads even if they don’t want to. Same goes for mandated insurance for motorcycles. BUT, now that the Gov’t is talking about forcing them to protect themselves with health insurance, they cry that it’s not fair.
Once you applaud big brother getting involved, you don’t get to scream ‘time out’ when they turn the tables on you.
I said that when the whole anti-smoking crap started. When an owner of a bar can’t make the smoking/non smoking decision for themselves it was the start. But too many people were cheering for anyone with a level head to be heard.
All of these issues are at the state level Dawn. States know better than the feds what their citizens want. Usually anyway.
Move to Denmark then – see how long you last there with 40% in taxes
For those that are waiting, how many Canadians are lined up ahead of them? National health care in Canada, if it is
so great, why are they coming to the US?
They don’t like waiting in line either, so apparently national health care isn’t the answer for that excuse.
Dawn,
Let me say this… I am not for Big Brother getting involved. State government mandates dictating minimum coverage for health insurance policies sold in their state are one of the reasons health insurance costs have skyrocketed.
People need the option to purchase major medical policies that do not cover all of the routine exams and preventative procedures the state mandates require. If insurers were able to sell a wide range of policies, from bare bones to “Cadillac” coverage, premiums would be more reasonable, people would be more likely to purchase insurance and maintain insurance at a younger age, and pre-existing conditions would be less of an issue.
There are reforms needed, such as preventing insureds from being dropped when they get sick, but not a complete revamping/takeover of the health insurance/health care system. Insurance is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events. My annual check-up should not be covered by my insurance policy; it’s an expected expense!
Geez, Stop stereotyping people. I have a job thank you very much. I said I lost my job 5 years ago, I didn’t say I’m still unemployed. I’ve never been without health care. Even during the 4 months I was unemployed I paid the more than $900. a month for COBRA while actively looking for… and landing a job. I’ve worked my butt off, paid taxes and health care since the age of 14. Why must you think anyone with an opinion other than your own is unemployed, uneducated and an uninsured loser. You’ve gotten way off topic and turned to insults for people you’ve never met. Think about it.
Stereotyping? Here’s what you posted…
“I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago.”
No where in your post did you even hint that you were now employed. No, just “lost her job about 5 years ago”, and went on to whine about your situation.
And don’t be so high and mighty… from your current post, you said, “Why must you think anyone with an opinion other than your own is unemployed, uneducated and an uninsured loser.” Why? Again, you posted “I’m a single mother who lost her job about 5 years ago.”
In your original post you stated,
“Those of you who are being so critical about the need to provide every citizen in this great country of ours with health care have clearly never been challenged by it.” implying that only you and your opinion are valid because you’ve lived it. Well, so have I, and I don’t believe in health care as a right!
There comes a point of diminishing return. I’m done.
To quote you:
Insurance is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events.
That’s a completely wrong assumption on the part of everyone involved. Nothing regarding health insurance follows any other type of insurance- except maybe life. At least with Life Insurance you KNOW you’re going to die at some point.
Insurance on your house is protection against unexpected, financially burdensome events. You can live in a house for decades with no fires, thefts, etc. Same goes for cars.
But unless you are hit by a bus and killed instantly at a very young age, you WILL incur health issues and you WILL incur substantial health care bills. That’s not an unknown or an unexpected. Yes, having them at a relatively young age is unexpected- but the fact that hospitals/doctors bill in the hundreds of thousands is the unexpected part. I had a hysterectomy. Everything went fine. Until I picked up MRSA in the hospital. 2 more surgeries and almost $100K later I’m going to be 6 months to a year recovering from a preventable illness- but not preventable by ME. The hospital could have and should have prevented this. Yet my insurance company has paid them thousands to fix it. Why isn’t theirs picking up this tab? $1.8B a year spent on PREVENTABLE post-op infections killing 48,000 people a year.
If my house burned down because I left a lit cigarette on the sofa my insurance goes up and I can’t get written for years. If the hospital isn’t sterile and they MAKE $1B from infecting people, where is their incentive to stop? My health insurance went up 22% this year. Loss Mod – hello? I didn’t cause the MRSA.
My point is that if it’s going to be insurance, fine. Treat it as such. BC/BS should subrogate against the hospital for every post-op infection that involved STAPH or MRSA. Maybe then hospitals would clean up. Insurance companies can give us blood tests for alcohol drugs, nicotine, watch our every move to surcharge the second we step out of line. Or we move to a system that has come common sense regarding the fact that people are going to get cancer, people are going to get sick, some people are going to be chronically sick through no fault of their own, people are going to require surgeries, and are going to have large bills and we deal with it as a country. A guy sitting behind a desk that makes a bonus everytime someone dies from a denied claim is NOT the way a civilized nation should be behaving.
Why does it have to be one way or the other. France seems to have a well run hybrid that most of their citizens are happy with.
You’ve nailed it on the head. Insurance companies are entitled to accoutability and a right to subrogate for preventable errors against the mal practice insurers. Right?
ALTHOUGH, One could say that you will more then likely have a P & C claim of an amount of $5000 or higher in your lifetime and one could say I might die before I actually get sick and incur hospital bills.
So I do beieve that there is a generality amoung the insurers every line.
AND BUT each line may require regulation that is suitable for that line.
Sherry-You do a good job of avoiding the issues.
I agree that all have the right to get the measures they want and need.
That “right” as you call it does not extend to me as a taxpayer to help pay for it.
Instead of making me, a disinterested 3rd party to the matter someone who should now pay is wrong. Go to the ones charging the amounts of money they are and ask for a better deal. They have skin in the game. I do, nor should I have any financial or otherwise.
Dawn–move to France, then. Problem solved.
Just catching up as I missed a few days. I agree 100% with the grammar police. Poorly written posts that then tout being an insurance agent put all insurance professionals in a bad light. Proofread your posts.
Not sure WTH you’re talking about, Wally.
Move to France is the stock answer for what? Asking that hospitals be held accountable for protecting patients? For stating that health is not and should not be held to the same assumptions as P&C?
You’re a bit vague, here. Or is that just the best you can do?