Nobody wants to discuss truth or details. Everyone wants to throw blame at the big insurance companies. Most HMOs have a hard time breaking even because people over utilize when copays are low. Doctors are not going to book their schedules with patients that do not provide enough reimbursement. There is NO med mal reform. All they are doing is mandating coverage on individuals and small businesses; or hitting them with penalties. The rest of us will pick up the high risks through our own premium increases. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have a lot of money to be spreading around anymore. In Tennessee, we tried to open up the Medicaid to anyone (TNCARE). It was a Disaster!!! Did anyone listen to our DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, Phil Bredeson? NO He flat out told his party, this kind of plan is a bomb to State budgets that are already crushed. Where will this end????
Most of those that are against this BILL are not against health care reform as this title suggests. The problem is that we disagree with how reform should be brought about.
Your industry cannot ethically be a simple money maker. Your industry is supposed to HELP people and CARE for our health. You failed. EPIC FAILED.
Do we need any further proof that COPORATIONS should not be treated as individuals by the supreme court, allowed to manipulate the peoples elections with their mounds of cash, OUR CASH, and propose laws against us? Build a real industry with heart, or you’re out.
Your article is misleading. I am a successful insurance agent with an office full of employees and i am very happy with the passage of the health reform bill.
Like the “Great Society” did, giving someone something for NOTHING goes against human nature and perpetuates and grows the ranks that have no responsibility. Look at History.
Health insurers, even all insurance companies, (and many health insurers are non-profit entities, not for-profit’s) make less than average in profits. In Oregon, the last 8 years, less than 3%. In the last two years, less than 1% profits.
Do the math, the cost isn’t in the insurance industry. The great Obama even hit headlines with that statement.
We as a society have continued to complain for better coverage, and legislated better covereage, as well as State departments of insurance regulated for very broad coverage, and we’ve been using the coverage. Use the coverage, increase claim payments. Increase claim costs, increases premiums. Just because it’s expensive, doesn’t mean “Hearless” insurers are raping and pillaging people for profits.
We have a system we demanded, and can no longer afford!
How many fat people are getting diabets and refuse to consider weight loss, but demand a scooter? How many smokers with COPD run around with portable oxygen tanks? How hard is it to shop for a good doctor or hospital? (Just try and find out the price of a surgery). And defensive medicine, try and be a Doc subject to potential millions in a suit if you didn’t order an MRI.
Well, excuse us for not wanting to DIE while you all sit on your fat asses and ‘decide’ what the ‘right’ plan is. There is no real reform plan that the insurance industry wants. It’s a ruse to delay, and it’s worn out.
Lisa, I have watched this health care legislation very carefully, and have yet to see the part that shows where the cost of health care is being reduced. Expanding health insurance to cover more people certainly doesn’t lower overall costs, it will have to increase them if you are taking in people with existing health conditions.
It will mean more business for you I know. But at least it’s a start. I have many friends without health care, all due to loss of job or disability. One has cancer, one can’t get grief counseling after her child died. Insurance companies must be regulated and serve the people. I hope you serve your individual clients needs first, before the industries.
Where did Realist say that they didn’t belive in SSI? Nice Strawman there Lisa. As for your comment about dying while you wait for a decision, the people that are against this bill DO have a decision, its just that close minded people do not listen. Tort reform, high risk pool for those denied health insurance for pre-ex conditions. Someone here on IJ stated once (I wish i remembered who posted it) ” ‘Preexisting condtion’s and ‘insurance’ are mutually exclusive”.
Would it be right that you got into a car accident while you didnt have insurance, then after the accident you went and bought insurance to cover the accident. If that was the case, then no one would buy auto insurance until they had an accident. No business could stay solvent because they would be paying more out then they were taking in. If the private sector can not do that, what makes you think that the government can? Because they can just print more money? That leads to inflation and weakens the dollar. So yet another strawman. Just because we are against this bill doesn’t mean we do not have any ideas on how to insure the insured.
Instead of auto insurance being goverened by your own record of claims, tickets, accidents, DWI’s, credit and type of car, let’s just all pay the same auto premium.
Will that work to lower auto premiums for everybody?
Duh………………
She died on Valentines Day in my arms. She was a smart, funny, caring woman who started smoking cigarettes as a teenager in the 50’s when tobacco companies were telling everyone it was cool and even GOOD for them. She quit when told she had COPD, but it was too late. We watched her suffer on oxygen 24 hours a day, struggling with PORTABLE TANK when she had to go to the doctor. I had no idea that her stupid, selfish, use of ‘luxury items’ like her portable oxygen tank is responsible for the expensive burgeoning system. Thank you for letting me know.
You’d be happy to know however that her husband, my father-in-law, had diabetes and although was a bit overweight due to his inability to exercise and walk after his toes were amputated from the associated gangrene, did NOT want a ‘scooter’. You can bet if he had we would have gotten him one, and undoubtedly PAID for it, since most insurance companies do not fully cover such an item…but then, you probably know that.
It’s your type of unkindness that I was referring to when I suggested the insurance industry and its defenders grow a heart. You don’t even think about actual people you hurt when you write things like you did. And that’s the problem right there.
Said so himself! I don’t know of any other Great Society than the one FDR started and Johnson continued, do you?
The Great Society presidents (Democrats) ideas and action gave us SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid….
Anyone who doesn’t want the Great Society and complains about the people getting healthcare doess’t deserve to collect their Social Security.
PS- From Wikipedia on Straw Man arguements: Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent’s argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one other statement – being presumably easier to refute than the original position – must be true. If one refutes this weaker proposition, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a “straw man” argument.
Lisa’s comments reflect the viewpoints of countless millions of Americans, and their numbers are growing daily due to the inability of the insurance industry or the people who work in it to ever choose ethgics and moral responsibility if the alternative is to gouge people in need. The industry has gone too far and they still don’t get it. That’s why they are right to fear health reform. This is only the beginning. The American people most assuredly do intend to put you out of business. You all should spend more time apologizing and praying for forgiveness and your livelihoods, and less time attacking and demonizing the most vulnerable in society. You don’t get it. The Catholic nuns have actually decided that you guys are more evil than abortion! That should tell you something. Look inward, or prepare for your deserved economic doom.
Agree. Let me get this staright. More possible clients paying more so they will run for the cheaper government answer which ALL citizens will eventually pay for in the form of taxation. Hmmmmmm .
Initially we pay more taxes on income, pay a penalty because we work hard to earn money to buy a good health plan for our employees and now have to pay a penalty because we work hard and buy health insurance, unfair payroll taxes to small business that will go to pay for health ins for people who dont have coverage. Why didnt our congress attack the cost, legal community, laws that govern both to control cost. what about the providers themselves? Guess they paid them off with their enormous profits.
This wont fly long term in america. working income earning companies and people will eventually say that is enough and quit. once done whos gonna pay? everyone will pay now and in the future. bad idea. cost should be spread to all people and business and cost should be cut. legal should be legislatively controlled so we can buy health. All of us.
So, if sugery costs a lot, we need to do a government take over of hospitals, if cancer treatment costs a lot, take over Oncology, if transplants cost a lot, we need to take them over. Hum, cars cost a lot, time for the Obamacar? Gas costs a lot, Obamaoil? Homes cost a lot, Obamaestate?
No, you don’t get it. You can’t go past your nose on your face. Keeep demonizing the insurance industry if it make you feel good, but the facts are the same: $10,000 of claims paid out, $11,000 is your premium you pay in.
Don’t like the $11,000? Change the $10,000 in what’s paid out, why are you trying to go after the $1,000 in admin cost, which are as much as 300% less than Medicare and Medicade admin costs. Oh, but Medicare is only 3%, but that’s over $600, vs say 10%, of which is only $270, you see, it’s a % of claim, and Medicare Claims are over $6600, where Private Health claims are over $2700.
Why can’t you move on to what the doc charges, a goodly sum the doc charges is cost shift from under-paid Medicade and Medicare). Another 10-13% is defensive medicine to prepare for the law suit where the attorny will make 50% off the settlment. Another chunk is State and Federal taxes. Yet more is cost shift from self-insured mega groups or Union Trusts,NOT subject to the same regulation’s as private insurers.
Ever try and shop sugeries? Ever try and obtain hospitalization costs? Ever able to find out success rates between providers? Did you know the ONLY negotiation driving prices down are the private insurers with HMO or PPO contracts? And the provider’s scream like stuck pigs in dealing with those horrible insurance companies.
I am sorry your mother has passed on. Its a deep loss. I’ve lost my father to a lung desease. Not a fun way to go. But you know, this temproal life isn’t all there is. There can be much better beyond.
Show me where he said it. Quote it directly from his post.
I see that you failed to address my question “If the government run health care is so great, why isn’t congress placing themsevles on it?” Also, it is a strawman to say that people that are against this bill are anti-health care reform. We disagree on how to go about it. Your strawman says that we do not want health care reform at all, which most of us do.
Ys, your mother died, and that is a horrible thing and I truly simpathize with your loss. It is never easy nor should it be easy to lose someone you are really close to. I do not get your logic though. Your mother chose to smoke and got sick because of it, yet its the insurance company’s fault that she was denied insurance? I don’t follow the logic. My father smokes and I beg him all the time to stop, but its his choice., short of me destroying every single pack of cigs he gets (which is impossible since he lives in another state), he will continue to smoke. Thats the great part about America. Freedom to choose what you do.
Liberal responses are almost always, since we do this we have to do that. Or Bush did this so we have permission to do worse. At least Rush and Beck encourage thought. Liberals are unthinking creatures. I feel, therefore I am. Unfortunately, their “feelings” for their fellows will bankrupt us all. This mess is not economically sustainable. We are already broke and we need to spend more?
To Texas Agent…I was 15 when Medicare passed and the people in the insurance industry were saying it was the end of the insurance business as we knew it. My dad was a life and health agent. I am happy to report that he did just fine for the next thirty years and ended up with two homes and made a very nice living.. I am in the P & C business and we have health clients. Everything will be just fine in our business as well. All kinds of new products will spring up and be available for us to sell just like after Medicare was passed. Things change and we have to change with them or our delivery system and industry will die.
Me too. I am successful, In the insurance business and have a building full of people, but i dont like the health care reform because the haves are having to pay the bill for the have nots!!! I would just rather have and not pay their bill.
I agree. Giving free anything to anyone becomes a habit. Once a habit, work ethics go out the window. Once that happens then more burden is on the working people who do pay taxes, once more pressure is on them, they give up because its unfair and join the ranks of the people who get everything for free, once that happens no one works, we all wait around like birds for the next feeding, and no one pays the taxes. The funny thing is the original tax payers who quit paying will be the survivors cause they will feed on the non working people.
This is not about our industry or whether we like or dislike the new or the old health care system., Its about working people paying more tax to cover the cost of health care for those who cannot or will not buy it on their own. Once we get used to paying for others services and benefits, our taxes will go up again. In other words youll be working double hard for the same take home pay 10 years from now if ya keep votin for this garbage., Can i send you a bill for my health insurance cost next month??
Unfair. It wont work because the people paying will stop and fight. Thats when the trouble will start. Problem is, those who never learned to survive on their own will go in a corner and go away. those who learned to fight, fought , will survive, and thats that. That part of history nwont change.
Nobody wants to discuss truth or details. Everyone wants to throw blame at the big insurance companies. Most HMOs have a hard time breaking even because people over utilize when copays are low. Doctors are not going to book their schedules with patients that do not provide enough reimbursement. There is NO med mal reform. All they are doing is mandating coverage on individuals and small businesses; or hitting them with penalties. The rest of us will pick up the high risks through our own premium increases. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have a lot of money to be spreading around anymore. In Tennessee, we tried to open up the Medicaid to anyone (TNCARE). It was a Disaster!!! Did anyone listen to our DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, Phil Bredeson? NO He flat out told his party, this kind of plan is a bomb to State budgets that are already crushed. Where will this end????
Most of those that are against this BILL are not against health care reform as this title suggests. The problem is that we disagree with how reform should be brought about.
Your industry cannot ethically be a simple money maker. Your industry is supposed to HELP people and CARE for our health. You failed. EPIC FAILED.
Do we need any further proof that COPORATIONS should not be treated as individuals by the supreme court, allowed to manipulate the peoples elections with their mounds of cash, OUR CASH, and propose laws against us? Build a real industry with heart, or you’re out.
Your article is misleading. I am a successful insurance agent with an office full of employees and i am very happy with the passage of the health reform bill.
Like the “Great Society” did, giving someone something for NOTHING goes against human nature and perpetuates and grows the ranks that have no responsibility. Look at History.
Give me a break Lisa,
Health insurers, even all insurance companies, (and many health insurers are non-profit entities, not for-profit’s) make less than average in profits. In Oregon, the last 8 years, less than 3%. In the last two years, less than 1% profits.
Do the math, the cost isn’t in the insurance industry. The great Obama even hit headlines with that statement.
We as a society have continued to complain for better coverage, and legislated better covereage, as well as State departments of insurance regulated for very broad coverage, and we’ve been using the coverage. Use the coverage, increase claim payments. Increase claim costs, increases premiums. Just because it’s expensive, doesn’t mean “Hearless” insurers are raping and pillaging people for profits.
We have a system we demanded, and can no longer afford!
How many fat people are getting diabets and refuse to consider weight loss, but demand a scooter? How many smokers with COPD run around with portable oxygen tanks? How hard is it to shop for a good doctor or hospital? (Just try and find out the price of a surgery). And defensive medicine, try and be a Doc subject to potential millions in a suit if you didn’t order an MRI.
Well, excuse us for not wanting to DIE while you all sit on your fat asses and ‘decide’ what the ‘right’ plan is. There is no real reform plan that the insurance industry wants. It’s a ruse to delay, and it’s worn out.
I mean, since you don’t believe in it and all.
DEAR I’M HAPPY!
GET BACK TO ME IN OH, 3-5 YEARS AND LET’S SEE IF YOU ARE STILL HAPPY WITH YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lisa, I have watched this health care legislation very carefully, and have yet to see the part that shows where the cost of health care is being reduced. Expanding health insurance to cover more people certainly doesn’t lower overall costs, it will have to increase them if you are taking in people with existing health conditions.
It will mean more business for you I know. But at least it’s a start. I have many friends without health care, all due to loss of job or disability. One has cancer, one can’t get grief counseling after her child died. Insurance companies must be regulated and serve the people. I hope you serve your individual clients needs first, before the industries.
Where did Realist say that they didn’t belive in SSI? Nice Strawman there Lisa. As for your comment about dying while you wait for a decision, the people that are against this bill DO have a decision, its just that close minded people do not listen. Tort reform, high risk pool for those denied health insurance for pre-ex conditions. Someone here on IJ stated once (I wish i remembered who posted it) ” ‘Preexisting condtion’s and ‘insurance’ are mutually exclusive”.
Would it be right that you got into a car accident while you didnt have insurance, then after the accident you went and bought insurance to cover the accident. If that was the case, then no one would buy auto insurance until they had an accident. No business could stay solvent because they would be paying more out then they were taking in. If the private sector can not do that, what makes you think that the government can? Because they can just print more money? That leads to inflation and weakens the dollar. So yet another strawman. Just because we are against this bill doesn’t mean we do not have any ideas on how to insure the insured.
Instead of auto insurance being goverened by your own record of claims, tickets, accidents, DWI’s, credit and type of car, let’s just all pay the same auto premium.
Will that work to lower auto premiums for everybody?
Duh………………
She died on Valentines Day in my arms. She was a smart, funny, caring woman who started smoking cigarettes as a teenager in the 50’s when tobacco companies were telling everyone it was cool and even GOOD for them. She quit when told she had COPD, but it was too late. We watched her suffer on oxygen 24 hours a day, struggling with PORTABLE TANK when she had to go to the doctor. I had no idea that her stupid, selfish, use of ‘luxury items’ like her portable oxygen tank is responsible for the expensive burgeoning system. Thank you for letting me know.
You’d be happy to know however that her husband, my father-in-law, had diabetes and although was a bit overweight due to his inability to exercise and walk after his toes were amputated from the associated gangrene, did NOT want a ‘scooter’. You can bet if he had we would have gotten him one, and undoubtedly PAID for it, since most insurance companies do not fully cover such an item…but then, you probably know that.
It’s your type of unkindness that I was referring to when I suggested the insurance industry and its defenders grow a heart. You don’t even think about actual people you hurt when you write things like you did. And that’s the problem right there.
Said so himself! I don’t know of any other Great Society than the one FDR started and Johnson continued, do you?
The Great Society presidents (Democrats) ideas and action gave us SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid….
Anyone who doesn’t want the Great Society and complains about the people getting healthcare doess’t deserve to collect their Social Security.
PS- From Wikipedia on Straw Man arguements: Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent’s argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one other statement – being presumably easier to refute than the original position – must be true. If one refutes this weaker proposition, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a “straw man” argument.
Thank you.
Hurry before you………………….
Lisa’s comments reflect the viewpoints of countless millions of Americans, and their numbers are growing daily due to the inability of the insurance industry or the people who work in it to ever choose ethgics and moral responsibility if the alternative is to gouge people in need. The industry has gone too far and they still don’t get it. That’s why they are right to fear health reform. This is only the beginning. The American people most assuredly do intend to put you out of business. You all should spend more time apologizing and praying for forgiveness and your livelihoods, and less time attacking and demonizing the most vulnerable in society. You don’t get it. The Catholic nuns have actually decided that you guys are more evil than abortion! That should tell you something. Look inward, or prepare for your deserved economic doom.
Just wondering……….
Agree. Let me get this staright. More possible clients paying more so they will run for the cheaper government answer which ALL citizens will eventually pay for in the form of taxation. Hmmmmmm .
Initially we pay more taxes on income, pay a penalty because we work hard to earn money to buy a good health plan for our employees and now have to pay a penalty because we work hard and buy health insurance, unfair payroll taxes to small business that will go to pay for health ins for people who dont have coverage. Why didnt our congress attack the cost, legal community, laws that govern both to control cost. what about the providers themselves? Guess they paid them off with their enormous profits.
This wont fly long term in america. working income earning companies and people will eventually say that is enough and quit. once done whos gonna pay? everyone will pay now and in the future. bad idea. cost should be spread to all people and business and cost should be cut. legal should be legislatively controlled so we can buy health. All of us.
So, if sugery costs a lot, we need to do a government take over of hospitals, if cancer treatment costs a lot, take over Oncology, if transplants cost a lot, we need to take them over. Hum, cars cost a lot, time for the Obamacar? Gas costs a lot, Obamaoil? Homes cost a lot, Obamaestate?
No, you don’t get it. You can’t go past your nose on your face. Keeep demonizing the insurance industry if it make you feel good, but the facts are the same: $10,000 of claims paid out, $11,000 is your premium you pay in.
Don’t like the $11,000? Change the $10,000 in what’s paid out, why are you trying to go after the $1,000 in admin cost, which are as much as 300% less than Medicare and Medicade admin costs. Oh, but Medicare is only 3%, but that’s over $600, vs say 10%, of which is only $270, you see, it’s a % of claim, and Medicare Claims are over $6600, where Private Health claims are over $2700.
Why can’t you move on to what the doc charges, a goodly sum the doc charges is cost shift from under-paid Medicade and Medicare). Another 10-13% is defensive medicine to prepare for the law suit where the attorny will make 50% off the settlment. Another chunk is State and Federal taxes. Yet more is cost shift from self-insured mega groups or Union Trusts,NOT subject to the same regulation’s as private insurers.
Ever try and shop sugeries? Ever try and obtain hospitalization costs? Ever able to find out success rates between providers? Did you know the ONLY negotiation driving prices down are the private insurers with HMO or PPO contracts? And the provider’s scream like stuck pigs in dealing with those horrible insurance companies.
I am sorry your mother has passed on. Its a deep loss. I’ve lost my father to a lung desease. Not a fun way to go. But you know, this temproal life isn’t all there is. There can be much better beyond.
Show me where he said it. Quote it directly from his post.
I see that you failed to address my question “If the government run health care is so great, why isn’t congress placing themsevles on it?” Also, it is a strawman to say that people that are against this bill are anti-health care reform. We disagree on how to go about it. Your strawman says that we do not want health care reform at all, which most of us do.
Ys, your mother died, and that is a horrible thing and I truly simpathize with your loss. It is never easy nor should it be easy to lose someone you are really close to. I do not get your logic though. Your mother chose to smoke and got sick because of it, yet its the insurance company’s fault that she was denied insurance? I don’t follow the logic. My father smokes and I beg him all the time to stop, but its his choice., short of me destroying every single pack of cigs he gets (which is impossible since he lives in another state), he will continue to smoke. Thats the great part about America. Freedom to choose what you do.
Eliminate Socialism. Stop social security benefits now.
Liberal responses are almost always, since we do this we have to do that. Or Bush did this so we have permission to do worse. At least Rush and Beck encourage thought. Liberals are unthinking creatures. I feel, therefore I am. Unfortunately, their “feelings” for their fellows will bankrupt us all. This mess is not economically sustainable. We are already broke and we need to spend more?
To Texas Agent…I was 15 when Medicare passed and the people in the insurance industry were saying it was the end of the insurance business as we knew it. My dad was a life and health agent. I am happy to report that he did just fine for the next thirty years and ended up with two homes and made a very nice living.. I am in the P & C business and we have health clients. Everything will be just fine in our business as well. All kinds of new products will spring up and be available for us to sell just like after Medicare was passed. Things change and we have to change with them or our delivery system and industry will die.
Me too. I am successful, In the insurance business and have a building full of people, but i dont like the health care reform because the haves are having to pay the bill for the have nots!!! I would just rather have and not pay their bill.
I agree. Giving free anything to anyone becomes a habit. Once a habit, work ethics go out the window. Once that happens then more burden is on the working people who do pay taxes, once more pressure is on them, they give up because its unfair and join the ranks of the people who get everything for free, once that happens no one works, we all wait around like birds for the next feeding, and no one pays the taxes. The funny thing is the original tax payers who quit paying will be the survivors cause they will feed on the non working people.
This is not about our industry or whether we like or dislike the new or the old health care system., Its about working people paying more tax to cover the cost of health care for those who cannot or will not buy it on their own. Once we get used to paying for others services and benefits, our taxes will go up again. In other words youll be working double hard for the same take home pay 10 years from now if ya keep votin for this garbage., Can i send you a bill for my health insurance cost next month??
Unfair. It wont work because the people paying will stop and fight. Thats when the trouble will start. Problem is, those who never learned to survive on their own will go in a corner and go away. those who learned to fight, fought , will survive, and thats that. That part of history nwont change.
who is the author i want to use this as a source in my paper!