Sarah, for risk of boring all the other bloggers, here is what I would do:
you want to cut programs, it seems. I, on the other hand, would prefer to contain costs, be strict about elgibility, and have zero tolerance for fraud. I would prefer to increase revenues in selected ways rather than abandon a lot of programs that really do help those down on their luck.
1. Set up a national website for clearance of social security numbers. I would attach finger prints or eye scans to this number. I would make ALL who expect services in any way subsidized by any taxing body to present the card and to prove that they are citizens of this country or have legal status to be here and receive the benefit. Those that cannot do not get the service, including food stamps, medicaid, medicare, and other welfare programs that were set up for our own, not others here illegally.
That should cut at least 7% of the costs of benefits, etc. after initial set up costs. Immigrants, except in extreme cases of genuine political asylum, should be supported by family already here, especially if those here are not citizens. For minimum five years they would not be able to benefit from any welfare type program paid for by the taxpayer. If they become citizens, waiting period is waived.
2. Not only look to cut SOCIAL programs, but for all facets of government. For instance, Gates in Defense has determined the new jet is neither needed or wanted, but he will be trumped by congressmen who want the jobs and revenue for their home states…half a trillion dollars or is it billions…I get so confused with these big numbers) I would end this by again, making the GAO be final arbiter in conjunction with the progfessionals. In other words, make all efforts to get the politics out of procurement.
3. I, too, would cut government workers, especially federal and state. i would start with those in Congress and have them lose 10% of their budgets, no loopholes. The various aides and advisors on the public payroll are way too many. Cut them in the admin or consulting area. For state govt, the cuts must not come in the departments that deliver services to the citizens that pay their salaries (police, firemen) but from the admin ranks. Redistribute the monies spent to better serve the public. Sarah, while you would limit unemployment comp, I would rather have stateworkers in the unemployment division work much harder at helping people find and secure jobs. If that entails firing a few dozen administrative secretaries or middle management do nothings, so be it…use the money to serve the people. Coming from Illinois, trust me, we know what bloated government payrolls look like.
3. End public unions, including teachers unions. We are the employers, there is no need to have a union to bargain with us; there are plenty of state and federal labor laws to deal with your grievances.
4. Revise the pension system such that public pensions are comparable to those in the private sector. As for the old myth that public employees earn less than private counterparts and so this difference is made up in pension security, I say horse puckies….tell that to workers who have seen their 401ks evaporate or who are forced to take paycuts or jobs paying less money. I see that as a trend that will continue until this “global economy” shakes out, so time for all to participate in the transition and feel the pain.
5. Social Security. Again, look at eligibility. About half of SS is used for survivors benefits, to pay to the disabled, to pay to widows and survivors. Again, just cutting out those who are not citizens, would save a ton. cut out the fraudsters. Look at some of the payments made; funeral benefits? this amount is so small, it does nothing and should be dropped. I am sure there are many other payments under this system that should also be dropped as not doing with they were intended to do, and have become really a waste of money.
Make high payments of SS needs based. Those that earned the most, get the most now and [probably need it least. For risk of sounding socialistic, I would think that the 2200/mo for some of these folks is pin money. give everyone a base (since they did contribute) but do not allow higher payments to those who really do not need them. Put the saved money back into Medicare to defray those costs (and help give back monies to those who did pay in the max over many years) and a service that the “rich” over 65 will and do use. Increase revenue by raising the current 106,000 threshold to higher limits. Make this money actually go into a trust fund and not let congress use it to mask real costs of government in other areas by taking it and spending it. No opt out; we saw what happened to our 401ks in this recession. if you allow the stock market to fund all retirement for some, those who retire when the market fails will become wards of the state anyway; let’s keep the safety net of SS and the current system of voluntary 401k (or make it involuntary up to campany match or 3% if no match).
6, Unemployment is another area that needs work. After the initial 26 weeks I would make further benefits needs based on income of the family. I agree that some folks milk the system when there is another good source of income, health insurance, etc. However, for others that do not have that option, I would continue the payments with demand that they appear at state offices to job search along with counselors (which of course i can now afford since i dumped all the dead weight state employees above and now have more money to pay those that actually render services to the taxpayer). Corporations that dump employees when they merge would be surcharged for five years after by substantial percentage onto their unemployment insurance fees paid to the state. Corporations that lay off employees due to relocating workers overseas would be triple taxed…or more. Now, there is no penalty for outsourcing, and that is part of the reason we are in our current pickle.
7. Initiate medical best practices on a national scale with review boards for cases that deviate (you know, like the old “underwriter referral”). Do not let special interests pervert this process. Penalize those hospitals and practitioners that do not adhere when they are receiving taxpayer monies, and especially those groups that are listed with a not for profit tax status.
Revise our tax system to simplify it and close all the loopholes granted for special interests. No grandfathering; no quarter. Do the flat tax as we discussed in prior blogs. We will need to tinker for percentage and for some equity, but this needs to be done. I am not sure that I would limit corporate tax to 12.5 %, but if loopholes closed, this could be sufficient.
8. I am not willing, really, to totally trust education to the states. I still remember de facto and de jure segregation and that is just not right. I lived through Brown vs. Topeka. I also remember Jim Crow laws and am unwilling not to have a higher authority. However, I think we need the Ed Dept as a national resource and research facility. it is no secret that we are falling behind the world in educating our kids. I attribute part of that to teachers unions, part to our “plugged in culture”, and part to unequal resource sharing within the states. I don’t personally think that “No child left behind” was a wrong idea…i think the execution stank and stinks.
I agree that 20 year pensions are too lenient…this is unheard of in the private sector. Do away with it; make retirement ages comparable for that in the private sector. This saves a ton of public money right there. Stop the game playing to boost pensions. Prevent double dipping with government pensions. Unless you are willing to have different classes of workers with different retirement ages, i do not see how a worker with heavy physical labor job can go on past 66. Or police or firemen…so I would retain current retirement ages and perhaps give special dispensations to police and fire if they have been on the line of fire, as it were, for earlier retirements.
By all means, Sarah, limit congressional terms. What a travesty to see Strom Thurmond, Henry Byrd, even Charles Rangel dodderng along.
Well, i am tired and hungry now. You did desrve an answer. I agtree with much of what you said, which is really not very conservative or liberal, but rather a pendulum swing back to reality and a reach for some pragmatic solutions. Neither of us applauds the absoloute wastefulness of government, the entrenched congressmen, the entrenched unions, the cheats and malingerers. I also agree that govt has gotten way too bloated and therefore masks the reality that we are letting our jobs be exported (or workers imported). I think where we mainly differ is that I would prefer to maintain social services for those that truly need them than cast those people on the mountain. I think if we purged all the non citizens, cheats, over billers, frauders, redundant departments and services, departments working at cross purposes, bloated charges paid by govt, sweetheart deals between public unions and politicians, and contractors and government officials, we would have enough money to accomplish support of R & D, education, humanitarian services. I think fiscal responsibility means providing a safety net for your OWN, (not every individual that washes up on our shores) but with valuable services for those that truly need them. i think it means everyone paying their fair share, with the realization that some are in better position to do that than others. I think we definitely need to balance this budget and get costs in hand so we are not dependent on China to buy our debt.
I think that some of our problems and angst is due to hopefully, our transition from an abject consuming society to a saving society so we have money to fund for our own needs rather than having to finance it via chinese yuan.
Your number of cutting 15-20% of govt costs may be closer, but I would be selective as to where I cut.
We may want to do it a little differently, but I think we desire the same end result.
You may disagree. I am a person that always tries to see the commonality in people rather than the individuality. that is why I get so aggravated at some of these blogs that try to segregate people with different views or cast them as monsters. ultimately, many want the same things despite labels and names. As we head off to november 2, we all need to think about what makes us countrymen, instead of what makes us “red” or “blue.”
ok, the judge in MI said it’s ok for all american to get health care under the commerce act. again, all american citizens, so let’s get the illegals out of the country and stop using our system for the many who do need it…. as far as penalizing folks, i think that needs to go away…. here’s the reason….
how many folks have you heard that say that due to religion they don’t believe in our healthcare and believe in god doing the work? so are you going to penalize those because of their religious beliefs? i don’t think so, because of the freedom of religion. this will be a major issue and will bring this healthcare bill down. should healthcare be available for all who need it definately, but the costs have skyrocketed and that is why folks decline coverage. we need to have a cost effective system and that everyone gets similar care no matter how bad your medical problem is…. this will probably go to the US Supreme Court…
Lets hope this thing keeps going until we get to the supreme court. If not we can just not fund the stupid thing if we can get a majority in the congress.
This now super liberal (majority) Supreme Court will sway to the left. Only hope is to garner enough support in our up and coming Conservative Congress to repeal this idiotic piece of s—,….er..legislation.
In a well reasoned opinion (65 pages-link below) the Florida judge trumps the MI judge’s 1 paragraph favorable ruling. This is headed of the SC and the insurance requirement will be overturned. What will be left is the repeal of the remainder. This will be only one battle in a long war but the American people (majority) will prevail.
had the same “consititional” fervor when
the egregious provisions of the so called Patriot Act became known. But then, y’all are real good at “situational” ethics…and the same fiscal fervor when the Bush regime was fighting two wars “off the books>”
Sarah…is your “we” “WE THE PEOPLE?” If so, you are highly presumtuous.
Most certainly there are problems with healthcare, but the way this sausage was put together would make anyone sick to their stomach. Cornhusker Kickback, Lousiana purchase, Florida Kickback…. I think I am going to throw up! .
This liberal congress, and the Obama administration reminds me of the time I got my daughter a credit card when she went away to school. She went to the mall and forgot that she would someday have to pay the credit card bill. I took the credit card away and shreaded it. November 2nd is the day we take the credit card away from Obama and this congress and shread it.
The other blog you ran away when I asked what a liberal would cut. You stated that Liberals are fiscal responsible and you wanted me to tell you all the areas I would cut. I did and asked you to do the same. Well, WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM WHOULD YOU CUT?
The Patriot Act allowed the gov to snoop on “foreign” conversations, i.e, meaning Americans talking with or to possible terrorists. It did not allow for intra US monitoring. It did give me some heartburn but there are times when some “bending”.
The net cost of either or both wars over ten years equals about the same money Obama spent on the stimulus and is no where near the 1.3 TRILLION dollars of defict this year, last year’s TRILLION or so dollars and next year’s TRILLION or so. We spent 3.45 TRILLION last year, unfortunately, we only took in 2.1 TRILLION in revenue. Last year, the gov spent 3.52 TRILLION. Spending is up 21.4% in the last two years. Sorry, but trying to hide from these facts by using the wars as a shield is a fool’s errand.
I responded on the other blog to you, if you will read it.
You are using repeat material…the credit card comparison is also on your other blog. Get new material…and note, it wasn’t such a clever bit to begin with.
Any intelligent adult would know better or should know better then to give their 18 year old a credit card. Also, no 18 year old is truly responsible enough to accept the responsibilities that come along with a credit card. Shame on you for giving one to a “child”
Maybe you should refrain from posting anything regarding politics until you are able to make more responsible choices.
Obama has NOT spent near as much money as the Bush Administration so why don’t you get over yourself and post statistics (if you can find them) to back up your posted “opinions”
Discussing politics is a colossal waste of time because people are never going to agree anyway so why bother.
A stupid point and a pitiful one at best! If that is the best analogy you have, then you definitely need to get back to work and keep the pathetic opinions off of IJ!
You are right it was an analogy which I think discribes this situation with Obama the constitutional crasher and his cohorts in crime the congressional spend and taxer’s.
WHERE WOULD A FISCAL RESPONSIBLE LIBERAL CUT IN SOCIAL PROGRAMS (WOW WHAT AN OZY-MORON STATEMENT IS THAT?)
CASANDRA, DONT FEEL SO BAD, OBAMA DOESNT HAVE A CLUE EITHER, HE HAD TO ESTABLISH A COMMITTEE OF LIBERALS TO TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT. THEY STILL DONT EVEN HAVE A CLUE.
When confronted with facts or a question they can not answer due to obvious common since or the facts just getting in the way. They always revert to an emotional outburst of factless ridicule. Those of you here, just sit back and watch…….
Same goes for the government – they have been acting like a child as well.
We are all fed up with the government. Just vote out who you don’t like (which should be everybody) and we will start fresh (hopefully).
All encumbent reps and dems need to leave and so does the current administration. They are all corrupt.
Sarah and Cassandra – at this point, you two are just running around in circles. Maybe exchange emails and take the fight elsewhere – just a suggestion; of course you are free to keep going on this blog – free country and all.
Gee, Tom, you are so informed….just tell me what part of the fiscal year (which I assume is what we are talking about here as you rack up the trillions) flopped over from Bush to Obama? Gee, how much of TARP was inherited? is that in your numbers?
Do you disagree with TARP? If so, then you must disagree with the automakers bailout, which I know you do. That being the case, how much in umemployment extra would have been paid by our various govts, foodstamps, medicare, etc., etc., etc? But then you would probably have cut those benefits too, and let “charitable organizations” pick up the slack…..I know Sarah would have. What about all the teaching jobs and police/fire jobs that were supported by these trillions? Did you want to pick up the local tax slack for all of that?
When you crab at the direct costs, look to the other costs that might have subsequently ensued. I think that rather than single out this administration for this deficit, you need to look a little further back and a little into the crystal ball. And for once, be freakin’ fair.
And of course, Wall Street, being big corporations and probably Sarah’s personal heroes, had nothing to do with anything? Obama should have thrown all those Goldman Sachs “public servants” out on their butts his first minute in office…
JUST be fair. YES, it is too high a deficit, but stop blaming the “liberals” Sarah and Tom; this tar pit was dug LONG before this administration.
Furthermore, and paradoxically, you all want no further taxation and, in fact, want to continue the Bush cuts for ALL segments, while most liberals, many of whom will fall into the 250,000 and over tax tier, are OK with retaining the breaks for the little guy and taking the increase to help reduce the deficits.
Sure, cut spending, but increase the rates on those that can best afford it to help. I am willing to chip in the extra 4%…why aren’t you?
Suppose the oppsing states succeed in overturning the individual mandate? Then what?
Critics of the health reform law forget that the existing system is already collapsing. That’s why the conservative Heritage Foundation first proposed the individual mandate and Mass. Gov. Mit Romney was instrumental in implementing it in his adopted state.
The health reform law is a last gasp effort to keep the principal funding of health care in private hands. As such, it is necessarily complicated, with unpleasant tradeoffs for everybody.
If the law fails, or if its critics succeed in undermining it, there will be no alternative but a REAL government takeover of health care. Then we will learn how exaggerated and distorted the criticisms of this law were.
Looks like we have a good cat fight between Sarah, Heather & Cassandra. Sarah, you are wasting your time if you think they will produce a list of Social Programs they would cut as liberals. Liberals are all about adding to the list, not cutting anything. They are in lock step with Pelosi, Reid & Obama and don’t really care if it bankrupts America. Luckily, they are in the minority and are facing Armageddon in November.
I am very interested in what social programs you feel are worthless and need to be cut drastically due to you being a fiscal responsible liberal.
By the way TARP was a success as far as Gietner stated the other day. costing only 50 billion and TARP had nothing to do with GM bailout, Fannie Mae bailouts that keep contiuning. The Government Jobs you talk about should have been permanantly solved by eliminating their 70% of pre retiremment pensions after 20 years of service and they should have 401K’s like the rest of us do.
Here was your response;
Posted By: Cassandra
Stop being such a momma grizzly, like that other (in)famous Sarah.
I am crafting a COGENT response to you so you cannot run around and dump on liberals, which you probably will anyway as you ALWAYS do. Surprise, I actually agreed with part of what you said…but then you went off into the stratosphere…
But I have work to do now, so you will have to wait…or not as you see fit.
Thanks, Heather…and thanks, Joe…everyone forgets that our healthcare system was in fact, in trouble. the Chamber of Commerce, once so adamant that heathcare HAD to be fixed is now whining out the other side of its mouth…what…did they think there wouldn’t be costs involved? what…did they think the “liberals” were going to pay for their healthcare? Sounds like it to me. What did they want, then?
Wow a liberal with a factual questions. Great…. Here you go, you want to know what a conservative might do if in office.
No sacred cows!!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour and that does not include the waiting room. $15. Aspirin. Give me a break. If someone is going to die and believe me doctors know this, don’t keep me alive for 3 miserable days with life support so you can charge my insurance or my family 25k more.
8. Computerize our health records and allow us to send them to any doctor we want, whenever we want. Health insurers and any other entity including the government can not obtain them without our written consent every time they are retrieved. That does not mean we sign it or not get insurance. Doctors seem to think this will save a tremendous amount of money and be able to treat patients better. Oh well, they get it, if it saves us money.
9. All employers are required to pay half the health insurance premium for their employees, all employees will be required to pay the other half. This would lower cost due to the ones who have it now pay for the uninsured. We should be able to take our insurance with us when we leave an employer and the previous employers plan not affected regarding our claims, etc. No group rates based on age, everyone pays the same. That includes the poor or the rich. Healthcare is not a right it is a privilege remember no sacred cows and that includes us.
10. NO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT AFTER THESE ITEMS ARE DONE. LETS SEE WHAT HEALTH INSURANCE COST’S AFTER THIS.
Why should anyone respond to your questions? You never hear the answers, just your own talking points. There are more solutions available, but you want it all, your way and now. Liberals are childish. Children repeat the same thing over and over until they get their way. Good thing us adults have more votes now.
Heather, you are right. Bush deficits were around $350 Billion for his eight years, Obama’s are over 1 TRILLION, so luckily, obama will surpass Bush in deficit spending by the end of next year. That’s quite an accomplishment, one you and he should be proud of.
I know stats much confuse you, so I tried to make it simple.
By the way, I can multi-task, so I am working while I set the record straight.
I have answered her questions with concrete facts and ideas. All I ever hear is vauge random thoughts of what a utopia life would be if all of the liberal ideas were put into place without any regards to cost or who would pay for such things and when confronted with current facts, she always reverts to Bush bashing.
Your are forgetful. Obama voted for TARP, you can’t have it both ways. As it is turning out TARP (a bad idea) is only going to cost us 50-100 BILLION in net losses, so TARP is not the albatros that is bothering Obama’s neck.
As for your other comments, I am glad you are in my ER when I arrive with a open wound bleeding profusely as you would recommend more blood and get to closing the wound sometime following the union meeting.
Joe H. I have a car that is running on 7 of 8 cylinders so I want to get it fixed. The mechanic does the work but he puts the cylinders in upside down. Now he wants me to drive away and be happy since he promises me they will eventually work. Knowing better, I don’t drive the car. I also know that fixing the mess the mechanic made will cost me more than the car is worth, so I decide that I should junk the engine but save the body and put a new engine in, one that I know has been put together with skill, tested on the dyno and is durable.
Sarah, I generally agree with you except for the following:
2) “They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money.”
This is dangerous. Limiting the profits of one industry can set the precedence and allow for profit limitations of other segments. I believe competition would be weakened. Plus, our doctors are paid well because they know their crap. I don’t mind keeping it that way… I think costs can be cut through other means besides taking from the care givers
6) “Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..”
Chiropractors do a lot of good things – well mine does at least. They get a lot of heat from people because they do mostly preventative medicine and their work is generally not seen. Maybe if we gave more priority to preventative medicine, there would be less reactive surgeries and medical problems (that cost way more).
9) “All employers are required to pay half the health insurance premium for their employees, all employees will be required to pay the other half.”
This makes sense, but some companies cannot afford that.
Wow!!! Just left this site to help my CSR take 3 applications for life insurance, one auto policy and a IM for a great big tractor. I can’t leave for even a little while without a bunch of liberal jibberish interfering with the facts. I’ve run across many idealistic liberal’s wearing rose coloured glasses like Cassandra but realize this hype will subside on Nov 3rd. LIBERALS LISTEN UP!!!! You’re going to lose, conservatism will take over, Obamacare will be repealed, the economy will start to thrive again, and all of us will be better off as a result. Thanks you in advance.
Hey Tom. I thought you were talking about “Cash for Clunkers” for a second. Cassandra probably thought that was a good program. I think it cost taxpayers a hefty sum as well. There is no end to their spending idiocy. This country needs to right the ship on 11-2 and politicians had better listen to the folks from now on or they are out of there.
I don’t think many people ascribe to the theory that Bush saved the economy with TARP. We all need to keep in mind that Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd were in charge of Congress from 07 on. All the elitists on both sides were drunk on spending and Fannie & Freddie went unchecked under the leadership of Franklin Raines (one of Obama’s advisors). Raines made off with a huge bonus for the good work he did while creating the collossal sub prime mortgage mess we are still paying for and will be for no telling how long. All of these things happened under the watch of Progressive Liberal leaders on both sides of the aisle including Mr. “Reach across the aisle” McCain & his buddy joined at the hip Lindsey Graham. These people need to be in jail, not running around Congress making more messes. Come on 11-2.
Sorry for the break, but I actually had customers to service. I’m back…let the bashing begin.
read with interest your cures for healthcare. Lady, you sure do make some sense when you are not being an ideologue! But you must realize, that some of your solutions caused you to “cross over” to the dark side!
1. “Drs make millions”…REALLY? “Fee schedules.” Personally, I would tend to agree that whether you walk in the door with or without insurance, the fees should be the same for the same service. I would agree with fee schedules for procedures but you seem to be suggesting limiting their total INCOME, which is another matter. Even old me, variously labeled a socialist in these blogs if not a marxist, would not agree to that. Sarah, isn’t this in conflict with your strong belief in getting govt out of your life? Why should drs be treated as different than other business people as you certainly seem to be suggesting? Why limit drs. earnings and not bonuses paid to Goldman Sachs honchos? I am not trying to be a smart @$$, but really wonder how you are rationalizing this, in view of your prior posts. I DO, however, much like your idea of subsidizing education for drs, especially for Family Physicians and Genral Practitioners. In fact, I believe I suggested that in one of these blogs a few months ago…
2. “standard forms” I agree. In fact, this, I think would be a money saver right off the bat. However, again, the notion of returning excess profit is not in keeping with what you have indicated in prior posts. The current healthcare bill has a limit on profots at the outset, or rather, requires 80/85% of monies taken in to be paid in benefits, leaving 15/20% for admin costs and profits. While we may quiblle about the percentage and I will not do that here, aren’t you, in effect, suggesting the same thing? How does this jibe with your anti liberal views? to me, this is quite liberal in that you do not want necessary services’ costs increased beyond a certain reasonable level. I, of course, could not agree with you more.
3. “pharma” Oh, well, this one. I have certainly done my share of railing at big pharma in these blogs. In fact, neither the GOP (who refused to allow the govt to negotiate drug pricing for Medicare prescriptions that we pay for) nor the Dems who did not really close this lovely loophole in the healthcare bill when they did have the chance, have served us well in this. I, of course, absolutely agree with you and again, consider this a very “liberal” view of not allowing big business have free reign and let the “invisible hand” work to control the pricing in the market. We do, indeed, agree.
Tort Reforms. No argument there. I would suggest that before a med mal suit goes to court, an impartial panel of medical and legal ombudsmen review the facts. If they are found meritorious, a suit could proceed. If not, SOL. By avoiding suits where Best practices would indicate a certain level of care was given, but not the complete and absolute range of care possible on which many of these suits hinge, we may begin to prevent the waste of money spent on over testing. By allowing meritorious suits to proceed, we limit the court action to those that are deemed gross negligence and let those truly hurt have their day in court. I would also have these ombudsmen be paid by the taxpayer and be drawn from all geographical areas (lest we get local panels who actually know the crs or claimants or who are steeped in what may be a too plaintiff friendly area) OH my, we agree here, too!
5. “No political contributions.” then, I suppose you do not support the recent Supreme Court decision to allow contributions (anonymously) by corps for campaign advertisements, etc., under the guise of first amendment rights? GUESS WHAT…I AGREE! But it will never come to pass…they really are too greedy…and furthermore, for risk of being told I am violating someone’s constitutional rights, I would have all campaigns be financed SOLEY by the public…with no fortunes allowed to be used, be they personal or corporate or union. All other contributions, if they must be made, should be single contributions from INDIVIDUALS (like REAL persons) and limited to small amounts and published. But then I will be accused of tromping on someone’s rights, somewhere because that is a “liberal” (actually, more egalitarian) thing. We AGREE AGAIN
“Chiropractors” Well, in my personal belief I agree with you but, in fact, the better ones do render services. Again, I would bring best practices to bear when chiropractic is being paid for by either govt or private insurors as part of a medical treatment and limit the visits to the point where they should have been efficacious. if not, stop them and not pay for them. For those who want a good massage or manipulation, pay for it yourself. WE AGREE!!!!
“Hospital charges. If sonmeone is going to die”…oh my…didn’t I say the same thing a month ago…along with other “liberals” who approved of the attempt by the healthcare bill to set up panels to determine best practices and end care requirements? Didn’t we get dumped all over on this as being “death panels?” Weren’t you one of the dumpers, Sarah? In fact, the healthcare bill requires the physician to discuss end care options with the family…but we got screamed down for letting the govt set up the maligned death panels. Or did you forget? In any event, having seen various grandparents and parents get ridiculous operations and procedures and tests when the ultimate outcome was not in doubt..and due very quicly, I might add, I can not but agree with this. Watch out, Sarah…we are way too much in agreement here.
“Computerize health records” DUH, current administration wanted money set aside exactly for this purpose to control costs and to aid the patient and his physicians to see what was done, and so potentially to avoid duplicate testing and duplicate expense as well as allowing portability of these records. WE AGREE AGAIN!
“1/2 health premiums” I very much agree that some groups need to pay more for health insurance so that they can see how much this really costs and can see what demanding overdoctoring can cost. i would end all cadillac health plans (in keeping with the standardized forms per above), including that for congressmen and their families, public employees, and ANYONE for whom there is any kind of subsidy for healthcare insurance. I would not necessarily include the SERVING military in combat zones. I am not sure that half the cost can be achieved…but it sure would be a damn wake up call! In principle, WE AGREE AGAIN.
So, does this make you “wishy washy” too since you have obviously crossed the idealogical lines here in some instances no matter how you rationalize it?
And since we agree about so much, why the snarkiness?
But what about the uninsured or uninsurable, Sarah? Are you implying here that you would have the govt provide their healthcare or what? Again, I am not trying to be a devil’s advocate, I am interested, since we have so much common ground per above. I would have the govt do it if we insist on having private companies providing coverage in this mix. We cannot ask profit making entities to take those with preexisting conditions, chronic disease, really, so who is left? OR, we must have them take ALL so as to spread the costs and risk. This is exactly what the much maligned healthcare bill was attempting in such an imperfect way. I would however, keep ALL the noncancelation terms in for private industry since this has been so much abused by them.
This just proves my point; if we would stop name calling and labeling each other, we would find some good pragmatic, practical, cost effective solutions. Liberal and conservative have little place in this discussion if we have this problem to solve. We will not solve the issue by being idealogues, but by being pragmatists.
There is no ideological cross over, except you crossing over away from a single payer system. The whole point of what I stated and I assume you agree with is we need reform but not a single payer system. HUH… Duh…. Did you get that….
Almost all conservative agree that the current healthcare systems needs serious reforms and Social Security needs a complete overhaul and privatising some if not all of it would be the best for the eminent collapse of the program. Medicare/ Medicaid is another situation and is much more complicated and would require not only healthcare reform but immigration reform and state medical clinics etc. Another discussion.
My responces are not a cross over its just you have no ideas for yourself except to copy mine and respond to them.
Again, What social programs would a fiscal responsible liberal do to solve our 13 Trillion debt.
Casandra,
I am amazed at your answer. Did I run into you at the Tea Party last week. LOL… I think maybe you might have a little fiscal sensability in you after all. Tip of the hat. Good day.
Forward your answer to the DNC or whitehouse I think this is something that makes sense that we could all benefit with. I am sure you would agree we can cut our spending instead of keep adding to our debt. That is all the Tea Party is about. Not anything social or racial just fiscal. The whitehouse and congress would be wise to heed your advice.
Cass, interesting thoughts that, other than punishing the rich, have solid merit. Now, if you could just join the balance budget Amendment crowd and rolling back spending to 2006 levels, we have something.
One thing about varying retirement dates, is that it brings out the lobbyist. I saw an article last week where a European ballet performer was complaining that the government’s plan to raise retirement would hurt her retirement which was set at 50. Apparently, ballet in Europe must be a contact sport.
Now that Sarah & Cassandra has solve all our problems in the country, we have no worries except for the outrageous Federal Government which is seeking to control every aspect of our lives. 11-2 is all about reigning in the Administration & Congress so they will do the will of “We the People”instead of the Special Interest groups who have been running the show for many years. We may have to change out Congress more than once to get the right people in office. If we don’t change the Senate this time, we can do another third in 2 years when we change out the White House. We have way too many 20-30 year career politicians who need to retire to their generous pensions.
No, Sarah, I won’t join you at the Tea party rallies, but I sure can appreciate (most) of the impetus. Had the platfrom really been limited to balanced budgets and limitation of govt incursions into our lives (on ALL leels, not just fed) I would have been there with teaBags hanging from my ears, but I do not agree with alot of the further social agenda, and the views of some of the biggest mouthpieces of it.
As for privatizing SS, I would NEVER agree to privatizing it for the benefits that provide a base line level of security for the elderly. I have watched my 401ks diminish significantly now as well as being victim of the original waiting period and vesting rules that have now been substantially revised to be more “consumer” friendly and “liberal” if you will and through no fault of my own, am behind the big black 8 ball. I do not know how old you are, but remember that ERISA has been in force since 1975 or close to; I know, I sold those plans when they first came out. I do not think that anyone could have envisioned the disappearance of the company pension or the change from 30 years with the same company to commoditizing our labor. If you ended up swicthing jobs a lot, as I did when repeatedly offered better opportunities, you lost a lot of years in those waiting periods to enroll or to be vested. Not to mention the jobs that now offer no benefits at all…how can you pivatizing a savings plan when there may be nothing left over to save? This is part of the reason why the decrease in non technical, no professional jobs in this country is so disturbing to me; while the manufacturing unions went way too far with their silly work rules, and the managements gave in way too much to that silliness, the unions did, in fact, set up pension funds and provided retirement income. Now, I wonder what will happen to all those that are retail clerks, restaurant workers, leisure workers, etc., that our economy is moving away from heavy mfg.
I think we all need to stop, take a breath, and look further into the future than 2010 or 2012…in the interim, we spend within our means federally, on the state level ( we haven’t even tapped the issues at that level), and locally so we have the wherewithall to meet the challenges that will arise in the future.
I am a member of this grass roots loosely organized effort to bring spending under control.
THERE IS ONLY ONE ITEM ON THE PLATFORM.
TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY, IS WHERE THE TEA PARTY STARTED AND THE FIRST RALLIES WHERE HELD ON 4/15/2008 AT WHICH TIME WE AS A G AND STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY. ADHERE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND PROVIDE SECURITY ONLY AND PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE. THERE IS NO SOCIAL AGENDA WITH THE TEA PARTY, THATS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE TEA PARTY ONLY IS WORKING WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY STATE THAT THEY ARE AGAINST SPENDING AT LEAST ON PAPER. WE DO NOT PARTICULARLY AGREE WITH ALL OF THEIR PLATFORM AGENDA’S AS WELL AND THEIR PAST SPENDING AND BEING WISHY WASHY ON EAR MARKS AND SPENDING. (McCain, Linsey Grahm, come to mind.)
TEA PARTIERS ARE ONLY AGAINST SPENDING MONEY THAT WE DO NOT HAVE, AND UNFAIRLY TAXING THOSE THAT WORK AND PROVIDE US WITH JOBS. WE ARE ALSO FOR STATES RIGHTS AND THE STATES RIGHTS AS IS CALLED FOR IN OUR US CONSTITUTION. WE ARE FOR A MUCH SMALLER FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT CONTROL OVER ALL ASPECTS IN OUR LIVES INCLUDING OUR HEALTHCARE.
Sarah, aptly and concisely put. Abortion, Gay Rights, and other issues are so far down the list of items on the eye chart of ideas that they are not even readable. This is about tax and spend politicians who think that the Fed treasury is a giant piggy bank (or trough) that they can use to reward contributors. The T movement is about reducing the size of government and getting our constitutional required spending under control so future generations aren’t saddled with Ponzi schemes that leave them holding the bag while white haired seniors marvel at the sunset (yes, I do have some gray coming on). The spend now and let them figure it out latter mentality has hit the wall. Unfortunately, republicans do bear some responsibility but Dem are like major leaguers playing against the farm team. They have established themselves are meeting their stereotype of “tax and spend”, so that is why they receive the brunt the justified criticism for past and future sins.
The TEA Party has done some amazing things considering they are just a movement, not a political party. They are focusing the attention of the American People on the real issues of the day and all the bad actors and policies that have been going on for years. Progressives are elitists who think we are too dumb to “get it”so they have to dream up numerous big spending policies which will ultimately bankrupt the country. I submit that they don’t “get it” that the American People are rejecting them and all they stand for. We want a much smaller Federal Government, State Government and Local Government who will live within their means and stop being everything to everyone.
It is however funny to watch and listen to the media and liberals alike try to tell us what the Tea Party stands for, even though they have not been to a rally and only heard about it from Chris Mathews or Kieth Oberman on MSNBC.
I think that when even the sensable democrat’s are made aware of the real Tea party platform, (term I use loosely) most support the Tea Party candidates thoughts and ideas. I think mostly because we do not have many different points of view. It is all about Government spending and taxing us too much. Everything else is secondary or of little consequence to our suport even though the liberals are trying again to make it about abortion, guns, or so called “radical thinking”! Oh my! It is hilarious.
OK, so those of you who have lambasted “liberals” and “progressives” for every program that came down the pike, whether they were, in fact, liberal or progressive, or whether, in fact, most of the liberal or progressive people believed in it in part or totally, now you have to sip from your own medicine.
I am sure most all Americans want fiscal responsibility regardless of slant. If the Tea Party had stuck to that, I would be a fan. But look at who the tea Party candidates are and look and see who the spokespeople are: all these folks have their own social agenda as well with respect to abortion, gay rights, etc., etc. You cannot ignore these agendas and just pick out what you like while touting the Tea Party as the great white hope. And I do not belive them when they say “this is my personal beliefand I would act as a representative of all the people” because we have seen how well that worked out in the past.
I do not view MConnell or Rand Paul as serious candidates and I think Paladino is a disaster waiting to happen. Therefore, despite all the hot air and rhetoric, I cannot take these folks seriously. Although indicating the Tea party wishes to provide an alternative, in fact, I have been provided with yet another unacceptable choice…along with all the other unacceptables in the big two.
Why couldn’t the Tea party have stuck to the “program” as Tom mapped out? You would have won in a landslide.
If you insist on burdenng others with all that went before and all spectrum of the stance from the far out fringe to the moderates, then you have to also insist on accepting the same for those running on the “Tea Party” platform. I truly wish it were not so and more serious and candidates acceptable to more “social” liberals or moderates candidates had been slated…you might have really made a needed difference. You may still in November, but only as long as it takes for Rove to put his fleshy arms around you and smother you…
Have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? Yes this is a grass roots effort, not astro-turf as some in your party have stated. The republican party also has made that mistake before, ie Sue Lowden in NV and the incumbent Senator from Alaska. As I know you on the outside have no idea about this movement, We have Gays that show up, we have pro choice people show up at Tea Parties, We have African americans, Hispanics and multiracial people involved in the Tea Party, Saying it is a White movement again is insulting and racist.
Tea Party
Taxed
Enough
Already
And Stop spending
THAT IS IT!
Take it from someone very much involved in the movement on a local level.
Just becuase some of the people who show up are different makes us that much stronger and accepting of a broader point of views socially. We have to be accepting if we are going to kick the crap out of the progressives on November 2nd.
I would rather have any of the aforementioned Candidates as President, than the rookie socialist community organizer who never worked a day in his life as preident than the one that we have now in Obama.
What is it exactly that you do not like about their political positions? (EXACTLY) Please no emotional outburst of ridicule. Liberals use words like radical not mainstream. Well that is exactly what we like in these candidates, they are different than the candidates we have elected in the past. GOP or DEM’s.
VOTE THEM ALL OUT!
We are going to vote them all out and replace them with people who will cut our spending and our taxes.
I think I covered this before but please don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. All parties have warts. Unfortunately, the Dems taxing and spending warts have become melanomas that are threatening the life of our nation. If we want to get into the issue of personalities, then let’s be Frank, Barney Frank that is. Last week we learned that this 30 year Congressman who helped craft the Dems financial regulation bill took a nice private jet trip to the Virgin Islands last year. The plane belonged to a huge hedge fund manager who just happened to be dating a Dem member of congress. He skirted the House ethics by stating that he accepted the plane ride from a fellow member of congress, so that made it ok. Charlie Rangel, Maxine Waters, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid are all ethically challenged and they are big spending Dems, so get the Windex out and keep an eye on the glass in your house.
Well said Tom. Cassandra is never going to get it. She rails at anyone who has a different point of view than her beloved Progressives. This ideology has been in play for many years and the 20-30 year guys in Congress on both sides of the aisle have had their chance and look what a mess they have made. The Tea Party candidates do know how to vote and know what the American People want and that is smaller government, less taxes and get the fiscal house in order. Social issues should go to the very back burner until we save this great country.
“You cannot ignore these agendas and just pick out what you like while touting the Tea Party as the great white hope.”
Is that a racist remark Cassandra? Oh my isnt it funny to catch a progressive being a racist.
Why couldn’t the Tea party have stuck to the “program” as Tom mapped out? You would have won in a landslide.
They did and they will on November 2nd.
“You may still in November, but only as long as it takes for Rove to put his fleshy arms around you and smother you…”
Rove does not represent the Tea Party, He actually does not think they stand a chance for much success and has repeated it many times, because of the limited platform and no real agenda. He basically has called the race in Deleware against the Tea Party candidate. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
Good for you Charlie. These Progressive bloggers ala Cassandra can’t win on the issues any more than their Progressive candidates so they resort to name calling, rascist comments about the Tea Party. If she ever attended a Tea Party rally, she would find out that they are good people concerned with the direction of the country and want to reverse the trend of the past 30 years to ever bigger government and entitlements out the kazoo. The Republicans made their share of mistakes and adopted many of the spending schemes and have paid the price. However, Obama and his minions are Bush on steroids and we can’t have that anymore. They all have to go on 11-2.
Are you all so xenophobic that you fail to READ what I wrote?
OK, I apologize…really did not mean “great white hope” to imply racism in any way…is a cliched phrase that I thought apparently everyone would understand… but apparently not…in the context I used it.
Tom, you misunderstand…I am not saying I approve of ANY congressmen taking trips actually paid for by lobbyists…what I am saying is that the candidates that the Tea party has put forth are not sticking to the fiscal agenda; they are throwing in a bunch of social issues (or represent according to their own statements positions on them) that make me uncomfortable (and it is my right to feel that way).
Do you not read what I wrote…or are the loud cacophonous noises you are making block your neurons? I said NONE of the candidates are in any way appealing, regardless of DEM, GOP, or Tea…
Even if elected, the Tea party candidates will be fighting a long battle with both parties entrenched modus opperandi, which as I see it, is selling “we the people” out for “those the special interests.” The danger I see is that, being unable to force the kind of fiscal responsibility that elected them, the TPers will seek perhaps an easier route and do the “social issues” stuff to show that they have done something (to get re elected). it is the social stuff that I have most disagreement with.
Yes, folks, I know Rove is not supporting many TP candidates. However, if you are in any way successful, he will co opt your positions and twist your message…you will be negated. He already has…but I do applaud you for being able to rain on his parade in some of the races! REALLY! Good going!
Some of you are so very busy blasting away at a “liberal” you don’t even understand what I have written.
Good luck and Godspeed. I hope that you are not disappointed on Nov 2, because I don’t think some of your egos could take it. But we “liberals” tend to take a more tolerant view…ya know….more touchy feely…you betcha!…
Cass, I guess I don’t know what your definition is of “social issues” but if you mean entitlements can’t be touched then you are out of touch. If you mean gay rights, abortion rights etc etc, then you are also off the mark with the T party ideal which is fiscal restraint. None of the candidates you have mentioned place any “social issues” at the top of their priority lists.
As far a being radical, you missed my point about radical Dems who cover themselves with the mantle of respectability ala, years of “service” to politics, i.e. Mr. Frank. I see incumbents such as those I named as the true radicals albeit that they are deemed “mainstream” by the left leaning media.
Please don’t fall back on the sophistry that you, a self described liberal, are being misunderstood. The problem libs are having is that they are being clearly understood and the center right majority is fed up with endulging their petulant condescension and and ethereal thinking. The days of Libs thinking that they have the intellectual horsepower to crush debates are over, put to death by reality.
P.S. I assume that your last paragraph was an attempt at sarcastic humor. If, so, I found it a bit too sardonic for my taste. Typically, most Libs take themselves so seriously that effective humor is well beyond their raach. In order to be truly funny, there must be some grain of truth; unfortunately, the tolerance reference falls waaay short since most Libs are not toleranct of any contrary thoughts or ideas.
Its not that liberals are ignorant, its that they know so much about what isnt so.
“Ronald Regan” 1980.
The liberals claim intelectual superiority all the time. All you have to do is watch MSNBC and listen to them state over and over that Obama is the smartest president we have ever had. It is so funny to watch the smartest president not be able to figure out any of the correct answers to our economic situation or even any correct political strategy to the changing political landscape that is facing this administration. Over and over he makes the wrong decissions. First there was if we enact the stimulus unemployment wouldnt go above 8%. (Why did he state that?) Then shovel ready projects, now there is no such thing as a shovel ready project. (Huh). The smartest president sure has made some bumbling mistakes over and over again. He is starting to get almost even with Biden in this area.
Sarah, Your comments are well taken. Don’t forget the one from yesterday to counter what the polls have been saying against his agenda. He basically said that America is scared and citizens aren’t thinking clearly. America is afraid for the future, but we are thinking clearly for the first time in many years and that is why we are rejecting Progressive Socialism. These Progressive guys have made a serious miscalculation and thought they had a mandate to install everything they stand for. We are about to show them the door. I hope they all leave the country after November and go anywhere else.
Tom, despite the 50 cent words and the nice phraseology, you are again liberal bashing for bashings sake.
You totally misunderstand what I am saying but then, why do I even exspect anything better?
You can’t pick and chose what attributes of the candidates you selected and ignore the rest. While you attempt to adhere to the “fiscal” responsibility points, these candidates bring their other agendas to the table as well. You all selected poorly in many cases and you are scaring off the rest of us…unless, of course, you attempt to verbally browbeat us as your blog has attempted to do by begging the question and by…again…(sigh) attacking liberals.
Just cause you say its so don’t make it so!
Amazed, TYPICAL response…”if you don’t like it leave”…then y’all should have been on the first boat out after 2008…..you are feeding off each others frenzy…
(Cass, cover your ears) Since Libs have always dominated academia and the media, they have developed a self perpetuating myth that they are the intelligensia and that the rest of us “cling to our God and Guns” to help us get through the daily struggle of life. They tend to tell each other how smart they are, and they believe it. Those days are waning fast, and they just now awakened to that realization and are deperately flailing about trying to recapture their fantasy. Look at Obama’s near irrational campaign to “fire up” the progressive base. He has tried numerous motivational scenarios, including the current debunked (lie)theory that foregin money is corrupting the election. It all helps prove that not only is this Pres an “empty suit” but he is also an “empty” of effective ideas and intellect.
Isn’t it interesting Tom how Progressives rail when they can’t win on the issues? They think if they can lie, deceive, run personal attack ads they can win an election. Any veneer of respectability has long disappeared. They can no longer drag a center/right country into their Socialist Utopia. 100 years of work is about to go up in smoke on 11-2. Must be very disheartening to them.
Cass, I asked for you to cover your ears as I did a little cathartic venting.
You are afraid of candidates that offer a stark difference between the media schooled professional candidates. They bring a refreshing viewpoint. Yes, I am including Christine O’Donnell, an average person going up against the good ole boy machine.
I actually saw a clip of John McCain’s daughter ridiculing her as someone who woke up one day and decided to run for Senate without any experience. I was gobsmacked (50 cents please) I guess she missed the chapter in her history book mentioning concept of “citizen farmers” going to DC for a limited stay. Maybe she missed the romanticized celluloid version of that concept which was embodied in “Mr. Smith goes to Washington”. Regardless, she parrots the DC group think that “ordinary citizens need not apply”. I say a breath of fresh air is needed and Ms. O’Donnell fills the bill to a T. That thought might be scary to you, but these people could not possibly be as bad as those who now warm the seats in Congress. I think you should re-adjust your fear meter to incorporate the fear of the “know” rather than dwell on your perceptions of these newcomers. This is one time you might consider ditching the proverb “Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don’t”; after all, the election is close to Halloween.
P.S. hope you noticed that I bashed only a republican in my response.
Megan McCain is an airhead and has been living off daddy all her life. What qualifies her to speak to any issue facing the country? Her daddy, Mr. Reach across the aisle has been pushing the Progressive agenda along with his buddy Lindsey Graham for years. See, I bashed two Republicans as well who are part of the problem, not the solution.
Tom and Amazed…THANK YOU…all I wanted was “equal opportunity” (me being a liberal and all that) bashing, because heavens knows, there are enough on BOTH sides of the aisle that need it!
Tom, I think you are stretching it a bit with Christine…she has been a media hound apparently from quite young (didn’t she do the “dabbling in witchcraft” bit when she was 19 or 20 or so?) and I am not quite sure how all that happens…I would envision a modern day Cincinnatis, but she does not fit that bill. As for academe, isn’t Rand Paul a doctor? Isn’t he a professor? Just be fair, just be fair…as you both were in prior posts…
Do you think Christine will campaign in a witch costume on Halloween??? (Sorry, I JUST could not resist…no poloitical content intended)
Lighten up….this election will be very interesting for sure regardless of which way it goes. Has already given the pundits and media darlings a ton of fodder…on BOTH sides…
If O’Donnell does come out in a witch costume, her opponent should be dressed in fine “Lenin” since he subscribes to the Marxist/Progressive agenda. I believe Harry Reid called him one of his favorites. The good people of Delaware surely have enough sense not to send him to Capitol Hill. Rand Paul is not cut from the elitist Republican cloth as well. He is more Libertarian in belief, smaller government, lower taxes etc which is just what this country needs at this point.
Does anyone else see any similarities with the current attempts to “ridicule those who oppose you and their opinions, isolate them and marginalize them”, a classic Alinsky tenet as expressed in his now infamuous book “Rules for Radicals”(see below)? In fact, does anyone see the parallels in how our current Pres has dynamited our healthcare system (1/6th of the economy) by use of this poison pill legislation. Legislation that is designed to drive the private sector under leaving the only option, a single payer system?
We are living in scary times, and not just because Halloween is just around the corner.
You see ghosts under the bed where there are none.
Rove and his buddies will marginalize you or smother you into non existence well before the “left” will. You will be lucky to survive with your principals intact as a viable political alternative. They will keep the catchphrases but co opt the movement…and we will be back to square one. As I said before, had you stuck to the stated main platform of fiscal responsibility (hopefully, including either raising or revamping taxes in selected ways as well as surgical excission of wasteful and excess spending) and had the individuals representing the movement been more carefully selected, detailing those more limited objectives, you might have suceeded long term. As you see a leftist plot to end private healthcare, I see rightist hidden agendas to abridge the most basic personal freedoms (as I see them)and roll back significant social legislation and protections.
Despite your eloquence Tom, Cassandra is not swayed by the facts. This Congress and Administration has indeed hijacked the Healthcare System of this country. It will lead to much higher costs, ie Boeing announcement, reduced benefits and higher taxes on all Americans. The whole idea of these Marxists is the single payer system and running the private market out of existence. It is the biggest scheme of income redistribution the country has ever seen. That is why we will be kicking them out of office and repealing this monstrocity or defunding it.
Cass, Nice try, but your rhetoric falls way short of the reality. Answering a question with a question is a poor way of debating. Attempts at deflecting the question gets very low marks. I suppose we will next hear the schoolyard refrain of “I am rubber, your glue, what you say to me, sticks to you”.
If you want to debate the evils of leftists v. conservatives that’s fine. Please name for me the countries where conservatives have taken over the governments and installed dictators or politburos.
If I had simply stuck to fiscal responsibilty, I wouldn’t have flushed out the falacious fiscal responsibility agreements you have expressed. As you well know, you can’t espouse “fiscal responsibility” while contemporaneously championing ever expanding entitlements such as Ocare. In other words, your fiscal rhetoric doesn’t come anywhere close to matching your other political thoughts and beliefs.
Amazed, you are on the right wavelength. As things have progressed, one only needs to look at the words and deeds, from comments to Joe the Plumber, Ron Emanuel’s never waste a good crisis, to the take over of GM and to Nancy Pelosi’s remarks yesterday the the Steelworker’s union to understand that this is no longer a hidden agenda. They are being up front with their progressive socialist attempts to re-shape America by re-distribution of wealth through control of individual wealth and corporate profit. This is now a full on frontal assault of the capitalist system by replacing it with “crony capitalism” to advance the socialist agenda.
Fortunately, the internet has been instrumental in helping to identify this trend and has motivated the majority of the people to begin to question what is going on in DC and how it can be halted, then reversed. Nov 2nd will be one step in a long journey to right the ship of state. As it turns out, Supreme Court Justice Brandeis’ was right “sunshine is indeed the best disinfectant”.
Tom, as usual, you hit the nail on the head. Now that Progressives have emerged from the shadows, their true intentions are now known by us that still have a brain. It is not a pretty picture. I have to laugh when I see many of them so surprised that their agenda is being roundly rejected by the majority of the citizens. We were being set up by Obama and his minions and the complicit media and almost brainwashed into thinking these ideas had merit. Reality has set in with all the bad policies put in place. Americans don’t like this and now will reject them on 11-2. I expect Pelosi to resign shortly after losing her leadership since she won’t be able to just be another house member and will lose her jet privileges.
Rove has nothing to do with the Tea Party! Cassandra, I think you would be better off commenting on something that you know more about. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal responsibilty, Only the liberal media wants our platform to be broadened to make it less palatable to indepedents and democrats, which we have many members of in the Tea Party. I will state it again for you, The Tea Party does not have a leader and is much bigger than any one person it is about taking back our country from carrier politicians who spend and waste our money on things that we really do not care about or need. PERIOD!
Good for you Sarah. Tom has very eloquently explained to Cassandra on at least a dozen treatises the error of her thinking and it just bounces off her like water on a duck. Logical Conservative views which are basic common sense is completely lost on her since she is committed to the uber left and their agenda. She mistakenly links Rove to the Tea Party and he is more of a Republican semi conservative and has nothing to do with the TEA Party and has on occasion bashed them for not having a leader. The beauty of the TEA party is that they don’t have a career politician leader. They are going to effect their influence at the ballot box on 11-2. It is interesting to me that Dick Morris was an advisor to Clinton in their hay day and now he has gotten religion and is about as conservative as it gets and has committed to help conservatives get elected and defeat these leftist ideologues.
Folks…I GET it. But just as the “left”: is being demonized in the media, so to, is the Tea Party and its candidates…and the press is NOT all liberal.
Sarah, I perfectly understand what you are saying; I am saying that you have chosen candidates that also have expressed hidden agendas, much as they try to avoid it.
Amazed, I GET it that Rove is not a Tea party supporter. What I am saying is that he will embrace your talking points (especially if you are successful in November) and you will be smothered. He’s a real clever guy.
Tom, you say I do not argue on point, but then you defy gravity and fly into areas I was ot referring to…if I am so guilty, then you are as well.
I guess if “Obamacare” as you so nastily call it is to “redistribute wealth” and by that you mean preventing people from becoming bankrupt because they can niether afford their medical bills or afford or even secure the insurance that would help prevent this, than so be it.
YOU are the ones who do not understand…or rather chose not to. Hope you enjoy supporting a movement that will end up as an historical footnote…sort of like the Know Nothings, maybe. There is no discussing anything with you; you feed on your own rhetoric. ENJOY!
Cass, I do ENJOY the company of the other Mteers but I also ENJOY discussing the politics of Ocare, which is a small part of a larger agenda.. Maybe you have missed my more nuanced segues but they are there.
I have tried to give you specifics rather than political puffery but it seems you want to hold onto your Marxist views (don’t get to bent out of shape, in this instance I mean Groucho ala “are you going to belive me or your lying eyes”) I prefer to see the world as it is through both eyes, not just my left eye.
In any event, I haven’t given up on you. I admire your spunk and intelligence and I am holding out hope that eventually Ego will prevail over the Id.
When do you think Cassandra will wake up and realize her social utopia is not going to happen and join us 3 musketeers who have been trying to educate her on the evils of the Obama agenda and Marxism in general? I say probably not since she is a true believer and more than likely a worshipper of Nancy Pelosi who can’t get a coherent sentence said no matter how short the speech. Income redistribution is her watchword as long as we don’t redistribute her considerable wealth. She won’t have to sign up for Obamacare since Congress is exempted.
The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . .
and think 25 to life would be appropriate. — Jay Leno
America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask. — Jay Leno
Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?
A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it. — Conan O’Brien
Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser. — Jay Leno
Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society.
The other is for housing prisoners. — David Letterman
Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean
and it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America ! — Jimmy Fallon
Q: What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
A: Bo has papers. — Jimmy Kimmel
Q: What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road. –David Letterman
How much MORE condescending and patronizing could your little last blog POSSIBLY be? Folks, now we all know the definition of what a left handed compliment is. After that little treatise, am I supposed to sit at your feet and listen for the pearls of wisdom to drop from your lips? Boy, how to win friends and influence people!
Loved the jokes…I enjoy political humor…too bad I don’t have the time to gather all the ones pointed the other way! And they are MANY! Thanks for the chuckles.
Cass, I apologize for my insensitivity. Maybe my tongue was too firmly planted in my cheek.
I will revist my Oracle status as maybe that status may be seen as overwhelming a demigod-you do recall what happend to Cassandra. However, I see you more as a Muse, say Melpomene and definately not a Harpy.
P.S. See, I can be ambidextrous. Now back to the Aeneid.
Tom, your problem is that you see things clearly and have common sense about what is right and what is wrong. People like Cassandra see things through rose colored glasses and unfortunately has been brain washed by some leftist professor somewhere who convinced her that Socialism/Marxism is the way to go in this country. “We, the People” are going to hold all politicians on a short leash from now on and any who proclaim that they support these huge Progressive spending programs will be dismissed forthwith starting with 11-2. I voted on the first day of early voting.
I have my fingers crossed. Being a realist, I can’t discount the possibility that the ends justifies the means crowd won’t come out to vote and dampen the effect. And, of course, the means may entail some early and often voting by peopl’s whose residence is a six foot plot and many many illegal voters. Conservative candidates in states where this typically occurs must be sure that they have a good ground game to turn out the vote and have poll watchers to challenge Frankenvoting (reference to the MN comdian senator).
Yo, Tom…yes, I know very well what happened to Cassandra…she saw things clearly the horrible things that would happen to her, her family, her Trojan people but no one believed her and thought she was crazy. for that she was raped and enslaved by the victorious Greek king, whose jealous wife eventually killed her. O chose my “nomme de guerre” well, I think.
Amazed, i think it is you who are seeing the world with rose colored glasses; you have a truly naive faith that your little movement will actually make a difference against the monied and entrenched forces operating symbiotically with our Congress…they will eat you alive if you are any way successful…all they need do is just revise the propaganda machine a bit…and you are engulfed (think amoeba feeding). I am much more cynical; would that I were not…
ne last word before I leave this blog forever 9I KNOW you are cheering):
first they came for the steelworkers, but I was not a steelworker, so I did nothing
then they came for the autoworkers, but i was not an autoworkers, so I did nothing
then they came for the textile worker, but I wads not a textile workers, so I did nothing
then they came for the customer service workers, but I was not a customer service worker so I did nothing
then they came for me.
Cass, I will agree with you that we are up against powerful forces of the Unions, left wing ideologues and other special interests who have bought influence and votes in Congress which have made it corrupt beyond recognition. It may actually take two election cycles to rid the country of these idiots, however you may have forgotten that We the People have awakened from our slumber of the past 20-30 years now and now see with very clear eyes how bad these people are and will remedy it in the voting booth on 11-2 and subsequent elections. Harry & Nancy pack your bags and clean out your office. You are fired.
Sarah, for risk of boring all the other bloggers, here is what I would do:
you want to cut programs, it seems. I, on the other hand, would prefer to contain costs, be strict about elgibility, and have zero tolerance for fraud. I would prefer to increase revenues in selected ways rather than abandon a lot of programs that really do help those down on their luck.
1. Set up a national website for clearance of social security numbers. I would attach finger prints or eye scans to this number. I would make ALL who expect services in any way subsidized by any taxing body to present the card and to prove that they are citizens of this country or have legal status to be here and receive the benefit. Those that cannot do not get the service, including food stamps, medicaid, medicare, and other welfare programs that were set up for our own, not others here illegally.
That should cut at least 7% of the costs of benefits, etc. after initial set up costs. Immigrants, except in extreme cases of genuine political asylum, should be supported by family already here, especially if those here are not citizens. For minimum five years they would not be able to benefit from any welfare type program paid for by the taxpayer. If they become citizens, waiting period is waived.
2. Not only look to cut SOCIAL programs, but for all facets of government. For instance, Gates in Defense has determined the new jet is neither needed or wanted, but he will be trumped by congressmen who want the jobs and revenue for their home states…half a trillion dollars or is it billions…I get so confused with these big numbers) I would end this by again, making the GAO be final arbiter in conjunction with the progfessionals. In other words, make all efforts to get the politics out of procurement.
3. I, too, would cut government workers, especially federal and state. i would start with those in Congress and have them lose 10% of their budgets, no loopholes. The various aides and advisors on the public payroll are way too many. Cut them in the admin or consulting area. For state govt, the cuts must not come in the departments that deliver services to the citizens that pay their salaries (police, firemen) but from the admin ranks. Redistribute the monies spent to better serve the public. Sarah, while you would limit unemployment comp, I would rather have stateworkers in the unemployment division work much harder at helping people find and secure jobs. If that entails firing a few dozen administrative secretaries or middle management do nothings, so be it…use the money to serve the people. Coming from Illinois, trust me, we know what bloated government payrolls look like.
3. End public unions, including teachers unions. We are the employers, there is no need to have a union to bargain with us; there are plenty of state and federal labor laws to deal with your grievances.
4. Revise the pension system such that public pensions are comparable to those in the private sector. As for the old myth that public employees earn less than private counterparts and so this difference is made up in pension security, I say horse puckies….tell that to workers who have seen their 401ks evaporate or who are forced to take paycuts or jobs paying less money. I see that as a trend that will continue until this “global economy” shakes out, so time for all to participate in the transition and feel the pain.
5. Social Security. Again, look at eligibility. About half of SS is used for survivors benefits, to pay to the disabled, to pay to widows and survivors. Again, just cutting out those who are not citizens, would save a ton. cut out the fraudsters. Look at some of the payments made; funeral benefits? this amount is so small, it does nothing and should be dropped. I am sure there are many other payments under this system that should also be dropped as not doing with they were intended to do, and have become really a waste of money.
Make high payments of SS needs based. Those that earned the most, get the most now and [probably need it least. For risk of sounding socialistic, I would think that the 2200/mo for some of these folks is pin money. give everyone a base (since they did contribute) but do not allow higher payments to those who really do not need them. Put the saved money back into Medicare to defray those costs (and help give back monies to those who did pay in the max over many years) and a service that the “rich” over 65 will and do use. Increase revenue by raising the current 106,000 threshold to higher limits. Make this money actually go into a trust fund and not let congress use it to mask real costs of government in other areas by taking it and spending it. No opt out; we saw what happened to our 401ks in this recession. if you allow the stock market to fund all retirement for some, those who retire when the market fails will become wards of the state anyway; let’s keep the safety net of SS and the current system of voluntary 401k (or make it involuntary up to campany match or 3% if no match).
6, Unemployment is another area that needs work. After the initial 26 weeks I would make further benefits needs based on income of the family. I agree that some folks milk the system when there is another good source of income, health insurance, etc. However, for others that do not have that option, I would continue the payments with demand that they appear at state offices to job search along with counselors (which of course i can now afford since i dumped all the dead weight state employees above and now have more money to pay those that actually render services to the taxpayer). Corporations that dump employees when they merge would be surcharged for five years after by substantial percentage onto their unemployment insurance fees paid to the state. Corporations that lay off employees due to relocating workers overseas would be triple taxed…or more. Now, there is no penalty for outsourcing, and that is part of the reason we are in our current pickle.
7. Initiate medical best practices on a national scale with review boards for cases that deviate (you know, like the old “underwriter referral”). Do not let special interests pervert this process. Penalize those hospitals and practitioners that do not adhere when they are receiving taxpayer monies, and especially those groups that are listed with a not for profit tax status.
Revise our tax system to simplify it and close all the loopholes granted for special interests. No grandfathering; no quarter. Do the flat tax as we discussed in prior blogs. We will need to tinker for percentage and for some equity, but this needs to be done. I am not sure that I would limit corporate tax to 12.5 %, but if loopholes closed, this could be sufficient.
8. I am not willing, really, to totally trust education to the states. I still remember de facto and de jure segregation and that is just not right. I lived through Brown vs. Topeka. I also remember Jim Crow laws and am unwilling not to have a higher authority. However, I think we need the Ed Dept as a national resource and research facility. it is no secret that we are falling behind the world in educating our kids. I attribute part of that to teachers unions, part to our “plugged in culture”, and part to unequal resource sharing within the states. I don’t personally think that “No child left behind” was a wrong idea…i think the execution stank and stinks.
I agree that 20 year pensions are too lenient…this is unheard of in the private sector. Do away with it; make retirement ages comparable for that in the private sector. This saves a ton of public money right there. Stop the game playing to boost pensions. Prevent double dipping with government pensions. Unless you are willing to have different classes of workers with different retirement ages, i do not see how a worker with heavy physical labor job can go on past 66. Or police or firemen…so I would retain current retirement ages and perhaps give special dispensations to police and fire if they have been on the line of fire, as it were, for earlier retirements.
By all means, Sarah, limit congressional terms. What a travesty to see Strom Thurmond, Henry Byrd, even Charles Rangel dodderng along.
Well, i am tired and hungry now. You did desrve an answer. I agtree with much of what you said, which is really not very conservative or liberal, but rather a pendulum swing back to reality and a reach for some pragmatic solutions. Neither of us applauds the absoloute wastefulness of government, the entrenched congressmen, the entrenched unions, the cheats and malingerers. I also agree that govt has gotten way too bloated and therefore masks the reality that we are letting our jobs be exported (or workers imported). I think where we mainly differ is that I would prefer to maintain social services for those that truly need them than cast those people on the mountain. I think if we purged all the non citizens, cheats, over billers, frauders, redundant departments and services, departments working at cross purposes, bloated charges paid by govt, sweetheart deals between public unions and politicians, and contractors and government officials, we would have enough money to accomplish support of R & D, education, humanitarian services. I think fiscal responsibility means providing a safety net for your OWN, (not every individual that washes up on our shores) but with valuable services for those that truly need them. i think it means everyone paying their fair share, with the realization that some are in better position to do that than others. I think we definitely need to balance this budget and get costs in hand so we are not dependent on China to buy our debt.
I think that some of our problems and angst is due to hopefully, our transition from an abject consuming society to a saving society so we have money to fund for our own needs rather than having to finance it via chinese yuan.
Your number of cutting 15-20% of govt costs may be closer, but I would be selective as to where I cut.
We may want to do it a little differently, but I think we desire the same end result.
You may disagree. I am a person that always tries to see the commonality in people rather than the individuality. that is why I get so aggravated at some of these blogs that try to segregate people with different views or cast them as monsters. ultimately, many want the same things despite labels and names. As we head off to november 2, we all need to think about what makes us countrymen, instead of what makes us “red” or “blue.”
ok, the judge in MI said it’s ok for all american to get health care under the commerce act. again, all american citizens, so let’s get the illegals out of the country and stop using our system for the many who do need it…. as far as penalizing folks, i think that needs to go away…. here’s the reason….
how many folks have you heard that say that due to religion they don’t believe in our healthcare and believe in god doing the work? so are you going to penalize those because of their religious beliefs? i don’t think so, because of the freedom of religion. this will be a major issue and will bring this healthcare bill down. should healthcare be available for all who need it definately, but the costs have skyrocketed and that is why folks decline coverage. we need to have a cost effective system and that everyone gets similar care no matter how bad your medical problem is…. this will probably go to the US Supreme Court…
Lets hope this thing keeps going until we get to the supreme court. If not we can just not fund the stupid thing if we can get a majority in the congress.
This now super liberal (majority) Supreme Court will sway to the left. Only hope is to garner enough support in our up and coming Conservative Congress to repeal this idiotic piece of s—,….er..legislation.
In a well reasoned opinion (65 pages-link below) the Florida judge trumps the MI judge’s 1 paragraph favorable ruling. This is headed of the SC and the insurance requirement will be overturned. What will be left is the repeal of the remainder. This will be only one battle in a long war but the American people (majority) will prevail.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/101410healthcareruling.pdf
had the same “consititional” fervor when
the egregious provisions of the so called Patriot Act became known. But then, y’all are real good at “situational” ethics…and the same fiscal fervor when the Bush regime was fighting two wars “off the books>”
Sarah…is your “we” “WE THE PEOPLE?” If so, you are highly presumtuous.
Most certainly there are problems with healthcare, but the way this sausage was put together would make anyone sick to their stomach. Cornhusker Kickback, Lousiana purchase, Florida Kickback…. I think I am going to throw up! .
This liberal congress, and the Obama administration reminds me of the time I got my daughter a credit card when she went away to school. She went to the mall and forgot that she would someday have to pay the credit card bill. I took the credit card away and shreaded it. November 2nd is the day we take the credit card away from Obama and this congress and shread it.
VOTE, VOTE, VOTE them out!
The other blog you ran away when I asked what a liberal would cut. You stated that Liberals are fiscal responsible and you wanted me to tell you all the areas I would cut. I did and asked you to do the same. Well, WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM WHOULD YOU CUT?
The Patriot Act allowed the gov to snoop on “foreign” conversations, i.e, meaning Americans talking with or to possible terrorists. It did not allow for intra US monitoring. It did give me some heartburn but there are times when some “bending”.
The net cost of either or both wars over ten years equals about the same money Obama spent on the stimulus and is no where near the 1.3 TRILLION dollars of defict this year, last year’s TRILLION or so dollars and next year’s TRILLION or so. We spent 3.45 TRILLION last year, unfortunately, we only took in 2.1 TRILLION in revenue. Last year, the gov spent 3.52 TRILLION. Spending is up 21.4% in the last two years. Sorry, but trying to hide from these facts by using the wars as a shield is a fool’s errand.
Sarah
Please spell my name correctly.
I responded on the other blog to you, if you will read it.
You are using repeat material…the credit card comparison is also on your other blog. Get new material…and note, it wasn’t such a clever bit to begin with.
Sarah:
Any intelligent adult would know better or should know better then to give their 18 year old a credit card. Also, no 18 year old is truly responsible enough to accept the responsibilities that come along with a credit card. Shame on you for giving one to a “child”
Maybe you should refrain from posting anything regarding politics until you are able to make more responsible choices.
Tom:
Obama has NOT spent near as much money as the Bush Administration so why don’t you get over yourself and post statistics (if you can find them) to back up your posted “opinions”
Discussing politics is a colossal waste of time because people are never going to agree anyway so why bother.
Get back to work!
Maybe you should take the credit card away from you congressman. That was the point! wow!
A stupid point and a pitiful one at best! If that is the best analogy you have, then you definitely need to get back to work and keep the pathetic opinions off of IJ!
You are right it was an analogy which I think discribes this situation with Obama the constitutional crasher and his cohorts in crime the congressional spend and taxer’s.
WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM WOULD YOU CUT?
Heather AKA Casandra,
WHERE WOULD A FISCAL RESPONSIBLE LIBERAL CUT IN SOCIAL PROGRAMS (WOW WHAT AN OZY-MORON STATEMENT IS THAT?)
CASANDRA, DONT FEEL SO BAD, OBAMA DOESNT HAVE A CLUE EITHER, HE HAD TO ESTABLISH A COMMITTEE OF LIBERALS TO TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT. THEY STILL DONT EVEN HAVE A CLUE.
When confronted with facts or a question they can not answer due to obvious common since or the facts just getting in the way. They always revert to an emotional outburst of factless ridicule. Those of you here, just sit back and watch…….
Same goes for the government – they have been acting like a child as well.
We are all fed up with the government. Just vote out who you don’t like (which should be everybody) and we will start fresh (hopefully).
All encumbent reps and dems need to leave and so does the current administration. They are all corrupt.
Sarah and Cassandra – at this point, you two are just running around in circles. Maybe exchange emails and take the fight elsewhere – just a suggestion; of course you are free to keep going on this blog – free country and all.
Gee, Tom, you are so informed….just tell me what part of the fiscal year (which I assume is what we are talking about here as you rack up the trillions) flopped over from Bush to Obama? Gee, how much of TARP was inherited? is that in your numbers?
Do you disagree with TARP? If so, then you must disagree with the automakers bailout, which I know you do. That being the case, how much in umemployment extra would have been paid by our various govts, foodstamps, medicare, etc., etc., etc? But then you would probably have cut those benefits too, and let “charitable organizations” pick up the slack…..I know Sarah would have. What about all the teaching jobs and police/fire jobs that were supported by these trillions? Did you want to pick up the local tax slack for all of that?
When you crab at the direct costs, look to the other costs that might have subsequently ensued. I think that rather than single out this administration for this deficit, you need to look a little further back and a little into the crystal ball. And for once, be freakin’ fair.
And of course, Wall Street, being big corporations and probably Sarah’s personal heroes, had nothing to do with anything? Obama should have thrown all those Goldman Sachs “public servants” out on their butts his first minute in office…
JUST be fair. YES, it is too high a deficit, but stop blaming the “liberals” Sarah and Tom; this tar pit was dug LONG before this administration.
Furthermore, and paradoxically, you all want no further taxation and, in fact, want to continue the Bush cuts for ALL segments, while most liberals, many of whom will fall into the 250,000 and over tax tier, are OK with retaining the breaks for the little guy and taking the increase to help reduce the deficits.
Sure, cut spending, but increase the rates on those that can best afford it to help. I am willing to chip in the extra 4%…why aren’t you?
Suppose the oppsing states succeed in overturning the individual mandate? Then what?
Critics of the health reform law forget that the existing system is already collapsing. That’s why the conservative Heritage Foundation first proposed the individual mandate and Mass. Gov. Mit Romney was instrumental in implementing it in his adopted state.
The health reform law is a last gasp effort to keep the principal funding of health care in private hands. As such, it is necessarily complicated, with unpleasant tradeoffs for everybody.
If the law fails, or if its critics succeed in undermining it, there will be no alternative but a REAL government takeover of health care. Then we will learn how exaggerated and distorted the criticisms of this law were.
Looks like we have a good cat fight between Sarah, Heather & Cassandra. Sarah, you are wasting your time if you think they will produce a list of Social Programs they would cut as liberals. Liberals are all about adding to the list, not cutting anything. They are in lock step with Pelosi, Reid & Obama and don’t really care if it bankrupts America. Luckily, they are in the minority and are facing Armageddon in November.
I am very interested in what social programs you feel are worthless and need to be cut drastically due to you being a fiscal responsible liberal.
By the way TARP was a success as far as Gietner stated the other day. costing only 50 billion and TARP had nothing to do with GM bailout, Fannie Mae bailouts that keep contiuning. The Government Jobs you talk about should have been permanantly solved by eliminating their 70% of pre retiremment pensions after 20 years of service and they should have 401K’s like the rest of us do.
Here was your response;
Posted By: Cassandra
Stop being such a momma grizzly, like that other (in)famous Sarah.
I am crafting a COGENT response to you so you cannot run around and dump on liberals, which you probably will anyway as you ALWAYS do. Surprise, I actually agreed with part of what you said…but then you went off into the stratosphere…
But I have work to do now, so you will have to wait…or not as you see fit.
Thanks, Heather…and thanks, Joe…everyone forgets that our healthcare system was in fact, in trouble. the Chamber of Commerce, once so adamant that heathcare HAD to be fixed is now whining out the other side of its mouth…what…did they think there wouldn’t be costs involved? what…did they think the “liberals” were going to pay for their healthcare? Sounds like it to me. What did they want, then?
Wow a liberal with a factual questions. Great…. Here you go, you want to know what a conservative might do if in office.
No sacred cows!!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour and that does not include the waiting room. $15. Aspirin. Give me a break. If someone is going to die and believe me doctors know this, don’t keep me alive for 3 miserable days with life support so you can charge my insurance or my family 25k more.
8. Computerize our health records and allow us to send them to any doctor we want, whenever we want. Health insurers and any other entity including the government can not obtain them without our written consent every time they are retrieved. That does not mean we sign it or not get insurance. Doctors seem to think this will save a tremendous amount of money and be able to treat patients better. Oh well, they get it, if it saves us money.
9. All employers are required to pay half the health insurance premium for their employees, all employees will be required to pay the other half. This would lower cost due to the ones who have it now pay for the uninsured. We should be able to take our insurance with us when we leave an employer and the previous employers plan not affected regarding our claims, etc. No group rates based on age, everyone pays the same. That includes the poor or the rich. Healthcare is not a right it is a privilege remember no sacred cows and that includes us.
10. NO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT AFTER THESE ITEMS ARE DONE. LETS SEE WHAT HEALTH INSURANCE COST’S AFTER THIS.
Why should anyone respond to your questions? You never hear the answers, just your own talking points. There are more solutions available, but you want it all, your way and now. Liberals are childish. Children repeat the same thing over and over until they get their way. Good thing us adults have more votes now.
Heather, you are right. Bush deficits were around $350 Billion for his eight years, Obama’s are over 1 TRILLION, so luckily, obama will surpass Bush in deficit spending by the end of next year. That’s quite an accomplishment, one you and he should be proud of.
I know stats much confuse you, so I tried to make it simple.
By the way, I can multi-task, so I am working while I set the record straight.
I think, if it gets repealed, and we have a fresh new Congress who is willing to listen to the people… we will get a better bill.
Therefore, personally I am all for a “redo”. It will at least give the gov’t more time to debate, discuss, and actually read the bill.
A better bill (in my opinion) will do a better job of addressing the actual cost of healthcare rather than the cost of insurance to get healthcare.
I have answered her questions with concrete facts and ideas. All I ever hear is vauge random thoughts of what a utopia life would be if all of the liberal ideas were put into place without any regards to cost or who would pay for such things and when confronted with current facts, she always reverts to Bush bashing.
Your are forgetful. Obama voted for TARP, you can’t have it both ways. As it is turning out TARP (a bad idea) is only going to cost us 50-100 BILLION in net losses, so TARP is not the albatros that is bothering Obama’s neck.
As for your other comments, I am glad you are in my ER when I arrive with a open wound bleeding profusely as you would recommend more blood and get to closing the wound sometime following the union meeting.
I have to get back to work and pay for everything I need in life and for some of those here bloging.
Good day, Cassandra AKA Heather.
PS: TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM YOU WOULD CUT CASSANDRA, I AM VERY INTERESTED.
Wait a minute here. Are you giving credit for saving the economy to Bush?
Joe H. I have a car that is running on 7 of 8 cylinders so I want to get it fixed. The mechanic does the work but he puts the cylinders in upside down. Now he wants me to drive away and be happy since he promises me they will eventually work. Knowing better, I don’t drive the car. I also know that fixing the mess the mechanic made will cost me more than the car is worth, so I decide that I should junk the engine but save the body and put a new engine in, one that I know has been put together with skill, tested on the dyno and is durable.
Sarah, I generally agree with you except for the following:
2) “They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money.”
This is dangerous. Limiting the profits of one industry can set the precedence and allow for profit limitations of other segments. I believe competition would be weakened. Plus, our doctors are paid well because they know their crap. I don’t mind keeping it that way… I think costs can be cut through other means besides taking from the care givers
6) “Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..”
Chiropractors do a lot of good things – well mine does at least. They get a lot of heat from people because they do mostly preventative medicine and their work is generally not seen. Maybe if we gave more priority to preventative medicine, there would be less reactive surgeries and medical problems (that cost way more).
9) “All employers are required to pay half the health insurance premium for their employees, all employees will be required to pay the other half.”
This makes sense, but some companies cannot afford that.
Great analogy!!
Wow!!! Just left this site to help my CSR take 3 applications for life insurance, one auto policy and a IM for a great big tractor. I can’t leave for even a little while without a bunch of liberal jibberish interfering with the facts. I’ve run across many idealistic liberal’s wearing rose coloured glasses like Cassandra but realize this hype will subside on Nov 3rd. LIBERALS LISTEN UP!!!! You’re going to lose, conservatism will take over, Obamacare will be repealed, the economy will start to thrive again, and all of us will be better off as a result. Thanks you in advance.
Hey Tom. I thought you were talking about “Cash for Clunkers” for a second. Cassandra probably thought that was a good program. I think it cost taxpayers a hefty sum as well. There is no end to their spending idiocy. This country needs to right the ship on 11-2 and politicians had better listen to the folks from now on or they are out of there.
I don’t think many people ascribe to the theory that Bush saved the economy with TARP. We all need to keep in mind that Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd were in charge of Congress from 07 on. All the elitists on both sides were drunk on spending and Fannie & Freddie went unchecked under the leadership of Franklin Raines (one of Obama’s advisors). Raines made off with a huge bonus for the good work he did while creating the collossal sub prime mortgage mess we are still paying for and will be for no telling how long. All of these things happened under the watch of Progressive Liberal leaders on both sides of the aisle including Mr. “Reach across the aisle” McCain & his buddy joined at the hip Lindsey Graham. These people need to be in jail, not running around Congress making more messes. Come on 11-2.
Sorry for the break, but I actually had customers to service. I’m back…let the bashing begin.
read with interest your cures for healthcare. Lady, you sure do make some sense when you are not being an ideologue! But you must realize, that some of your solutions caused you to “cross over” to the dark side!
1. “Drs make millions”…REALLY? “Fee schedules.” Personally, I would tend to agree that whether you walk in the door with or without insurance, the fees should be the same for the same service. I would agree with fee schedules for procedures but you seem to be suggesting limiting their total INCOME, which is another matter. Even old me, variously labeled a socialist in these blogs if not a marxist, would not agree to that. Sarah, isn’t this in conflict with your strong belief in getting govt out of your life? Why should drs be treated as different than other business people as you certainly seem to be suggesting? Why limit drs. earnings and not bonuses paid to Goldman Sachs honchos? I am not trying to be a smart @$$, but really wonder how you are rationalizing this, in view of your prior posts. I DO, however, much like your idea of subsidizing education for drs, especially for Family Physicians and Genral Practitioners. In fact, I believe I suggested that in one of these blogs a few months ago…
2. “standard forms” I agree. In fact, this, I think would be a money saver right off the bat. However, again, the notion of returning excess profit is not in keeping with what you have indicated in prior posts. The current healthcare bill has a limit on profots at the outset, or rather, requires 80/85% of monies taken in to be paid in benefits, leaving 15/20% for admin costs and profits. While we may quiblle about the percentage and I will not do that here, aren’t you, in effect, suggesting the same thing? How does this jibe with your anti liberal views? to me, this is quite liberal in that you do not want necessary services’ costs increased beyond a certain reasonable level. I, of course, could not agree with you more.
3. “pharma” Oh, well, this one. I have certainly done my share of railing at big pharma in these blogs. In fact, neither the GOP (who refused to allow the govt to negotiate drug pricing for Medicare prescriptions that we pay for) nor the Dems who did not really close this lovely loophole in the healthcare bill when they did have the chance, have served us well in this. I, of course, absolutely agree with you and again, consider this a very “liberal” view of not allowing big business have free reign and let the “invisible hand” work to control the pricing in the market. We do, indeed, agree.
Tort Reforms. No argument there. I would suggest that before a med mal suit goes to court, an impartial panel of medical and legal ombudsmen review the facts. If they are found meritorious, a suit could proceed. If not, SOL. By avoiding suits where Best practices would indicate a certain level of care was given, but not the complete and absolute range of care possible on which many of these suits hinge, we may begin to prevent the waste of money spent on over testing. By allowing meritorious suits to proceed, we limit the court action to those that are deemed gross negligence and let those truly hurt have their day in court. I would also have these ombudsmen be paid by the taxpayer and be drawn from all geographical areas (lest we get local panels who actually know the crs or claimants or who are steeped in what may be a too plaintiff friendly area) OH my, we agree here, too!
5. “No political contributions.” then, I suppose you do not support the recent Supreme Court decision to allow contributions (anonymously) by corps for campaign advertisements, etc., under the guise of first amendment rights? GUESS WHAT…I AGREE! But it will never come to pass…they really are too greedy…and furthermore, for risk of being told I am violating someone’s constitutional rights, I would have all campaigns be financed SOLEY by the public…with no fortunes allowed to be used, be they personal or corporate or union. All other contributions, if they must be made, should be single contributions from INDIVIDUALS (like REAL persons) and limited to small amounts and published. But then I will be accused of tromping on someone’s rights, somewhere because that is a “liberal” (actually, more egalitarian) thing. We AGREE AGAIN
“Chiropractors” Well, in my personal belief I agree with you but, in fact, the better ones do render services. Again, I would bring best practices to bear when chiropractic is being paid for by either govt or private insurors as part of a medical treatment and limit the visits to the point where they should have been efficacious. if not, stop them and not pay for them. For those who want a good massage or manipulation, pay for it yourself. WE AGREE!!!!
“Hospital charges. If sonmeone is going to die”…oh my…didn’t I say the same thing a month ago…along with other “liberals” who approved of the attempt by the healthcare bill to set up panels to determine best practices and end care requirements? Didn’t we get dumped all over on this as being “death panels?” Weren’t you one of the dumpers, Sarah? In fact, the healthcare bill requires the physician to discuss end care options with the family…but we got screamed down for letting the govt set up the maligned death panels. Or did you forget? In any event, having seen various grandparents and parents get ridiculous operations and procedures and tests when the ultimate outcome was not in doubt..and due very quicly, I might add, I can not but agree with this. Watch out, Sarah…we are way too much in agreement here.
“Computerize health records” DUH, current administration wanted money set aside exactly for this purpose to control costs and to aid the patient and his physicians to see what was done, and so potentially to avoid duplicate testing and duplicate expense as well as allowing portability of these records. WE AGREE AGAIN!
“1/2 health premiums” I very much agree that some groups need to pay more for health insurance so that they can see how much this really costs and can see what demanding overdoctoring can cost. i would end all cadillac health plans (in keeping with the standardized forms per above), including that for congressmen and their families, public employees, and ANYONE for whom there is any kind of subsidy for healthcare insurance. I would not necessarily include the SERVING military in combat zones. I am not sure that half the cost can be achieved…but it sure would be a damn wake up call! In principle, WE AGREE AGAIN.
So, does this make you “wishy washy” too since you have obviously crossed the idealogical lines here in some instances no matter how you rationalize it?
And since we agree about so much, why the snarkiness?
But what about the uninsured or uninsurable, Sarah? Are you implying here that you would have the govt provide their healthcare or what? Again, I am not trying to be a devil’s advocate, I am interested, since we have so much common ground per above. I would have the govt do it if we insist on having private companies providing coverage in this mix. We cannot ask profit making entities to take those with preexisting conditions, chronic disease, really, so who is left? OR, we must have them take ALL so as to spread the costs and risk. This is exactly what the much maligned healthcare bill was attempting in such an imperfect way. I would however, keep ALL the noncancelation terms in for private industry since this has been so much abused by them.
This just proves my point; if we would stop name calling and labeling each other, we would find some good pragmatic, practical, cost effective solutions. Liberal and conservative have little place in this discussion if we have this problem to solve. We will not solve the issue by being idealogues, but by being pragmatists.
There is no ideological cross over, except you crossing over away from a single payer system. The whole point of what I stated and I assume you agree with is we need reform but not a single payer system. HUH… Duh…. Did you get that….
Almost all conservative agree that the current healthcare systems needs serious reforms and Social Security needs a complete overhaul and privatising some if not all of it would be the best for the eminent collapse of the program. Medicare/ Medicaid is another situation and is much more complicated and would require not only healthcare reform but immigration reform and state medical clinics etc. Another discussion.
My responces are not a cross over its just you have no ideas for yourself except to copy mine and respond to them.
Again, What social programs would a fiscal responsible liberal do to solve our 13 Trillion debt.
Apologies, just read the previous post and reviewing.
Casandra,
I am amazed at your answer. Did I run into you at the Tea Party last week. LOL… I think maybe you might have a little fiscal sensability in you after all. Tip of the hat. Good day.
Forward your answer to the DNC or whitehouse I think this is something that makes sense that we could all benefit with. I am sure you would agree we can cut our spending instead of keep adding to our debt. That is all the Tea Party is about. Not anything social or racial just fiscal. The whitehouse and congress would be wise to heed your advice.
Cass, interesting thoughts that, other than punishing the rich, have solid merit. Now, if you could just join the balance budget Amendment crowd and rolling back spending to 2006 levels, we have something.
One thing about varying retirement dates, is that it brings out the lobbyist. I saw an article last week where a European ballet performer was complaining that the government’s plan to raise retirement would hurt her retirement which was set at 50. Apparently, ballet in Europe must be a contact sport.
Now that Sarah & Cassandra has solve all our problems in the country, we have no worries except for the outrageous Federal Government which is seeking to control every aspect of our lives. 11-2 is all about reigning in the Administration & Congress so they will do the will of “We the People”instead of the Special Interest groups who have been running the show for many years. We may have to change out Congress more than once to get the right people in office. If we don’t change the Senate this time, we can do another third in 2 years when we change out the White House. We have way too many 20-30 year career politicians who need to retire to their generous pensions.
Sarah and Tom, thank you for civil responses.
No, Sarah, I won’t join you at the Tea party rallies, but I sure can appreciate (most) of the impetus. Had the platfrom really been limited to balanced budgets and limitation of govt incursions into our lives (on ALL leels, not just fed) I would have been there with teaBags hanging from my ears, but I do not agree with alot of the further social agenda, and the views of some of the biggest mouthpieces of it.
As for privatizing SS, I would NEVER agree to privatizing it for the benefits that provide a base line level of security for the elderly. I have watched my 401ks diminish significantly now as well as being victim of the original waiting period and vesting rules that have now been substantially revised to be more “consumer” friendly and “liberal” if you will and through no fault of my own, am behind the big black 8 ball. I do not know how old you are, but remember that ERISA has been in force since 1975 or close to; I know, I sold those plans when they first came out. I do not think that anyone could have envisioned the disappearance of the company pension or the change from 30 years with the same company to commoditizing our labor. If you ended up swicthing jobs a lot, as I did when repeatedly offered better opportunities, you lost a lot of years in those waiting periods to enroll or to be vested. Not to mention the jobs that now offer no benefits at all…how can you pivatizing a savings plan when there may be nothing left over to save? This is part of the reason why the decrease in non technical, no professional jobs in this country is so disturbing to me; while the manufacturing unions went way too far with their silly work rules, and the managements gave in way too much to that silliness, the unions did, in fact, set up pension funds and provided retirement income. Now, I wonder what will happen to all those that are retail clerks, restaurant workers, leisure workers, etc., that our economy is moving away from heavy mfg.
I think we all need to stop, take a breath, and look further into the future than 2010 or 2012…in the interim, we spend within our means federally, on the state level ( we haven’t even tapped the issues at that level), and locally so we have the wherewithall to meet the challenges that will arise in the future.
I am a member of this grass roots loosely organized effort to bring spending under control.
THERE IS ONLY ONE ITEM ON THE PLATFORM.
TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY, IS WHERE THE TEA PARTY STARTED AND THE FIRST RALLIES WHERE HELD ON 4/15/2008 AT WHICH TIME WE AS A G AND STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY. ADHERE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND PROVIDE SECURITY ONLY AND PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE. THERE IS NO SOCIAL AGENDA WITH THE TEA PARTY, THATS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE TEA PARTY ONLY IS WORKING WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY STATE THAT THEY ARE AGAINST SPENDING AT LEAST ON PAPER. WE DO NOT PARTICULARLY AGREE WITH ALL OF THEIR PLATFORM AGENDA’S AS WELL AND THEIR PAST SPENDING AND BEING WISHY WASHY ON EAR MARKS AND SPENDING. (McCain, Linsey Grahm, come to mind.)
TEA PARTIERS ARE ONLY AGAINST SPENDING MONEY THAT WE DO NOT HAVE, AND UNFAIRLY TAXING THOSE THAT WORK AND PROVIDE US WITH JOBS. WE ARE ALSO FOR STATES RIGHTS AND THE STATES RIGHTS AS IS CALLED FOR IN OUR US CONSTITUTION. WE ARE FOR A MUCH SMALLER FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT CONTROL OVER ALL ASPECTS IN OUR LIVES INCLUDING OUR HEALTHCARE.
Sarah, aptly and concisely put. Abortion, Gay Rights, and other issues are so far down the list of items on the eye chart of ideas that they are not even readable. This is about tax and spend politicians who think that the Fed treasury is a giant piggy bank (or trough) that they can use to reward contributors. The T movement is about reducing the size of government and getting our constitutional required spending under control so future generations aren’t saddled with Ponzi schemes that leave them holding the bag while white haired seniors marvel at the sunset (yes, I do have some gray coming on). The spend now and let them figure it out latter mentality has hit the wall. Unfortunately, republicans do bear some responsibility but Dem are like major leaguers playing against the farm team. They have established themselves are meeting their stereotype of “tax and spend”, so that is why they receive the brunt the justified criticism for past and future sins.
The TEA Party has done some amazing things considering they are just a movement, not a political party. They are focusing the attention of the American People on the real issues of the day and all the bad actors and policies that have been going on for years. Progressives are elitists who think we are too dumb to “get it”so they have to dream up numerous big spending policies which will ultimately bankrupt the country. I submit that they don’t “get it” that the American People are rejecting them and all they stand for. We want a much smaller Federal Government, State Government and Local Government who will live within their means and stop being everything to everyone.
It is however funny to watch and listen to the media and liberals alike try to tell us what the Tea Party stands for, even though they have not been to a rally and only heard about it from Chris Mathews or Kieth Oberman on MSNBC.
I think that when even the sensable democrat’s are made aware of the real Tea party platform, (term I use loosely) most support the Tea Party candidates thoughts and ideas. I think mostly because we do not have many different points of view. It is all about Government spending and taxing us too much. Everything else is secondary or of little consequence to our suport even though the liberals are trying again to make it about abortion, guns, or so called “radical thinking”! Oh my! It is hilarious.
OK, so those of you who have lambasted “liberals” and “progressives” for every program that came down the pike, whether they were, in fact, liberal or progressive, or whether, in fact, most of the liberal or progressive people believed in it in part or totally, now you have to sip from your own medicine.
I am sure most all Americans want fiscal responsibility regardless of slant. If the Tea Party had stuck to that, I would be a fan. But look at who the tea Party candidates are and look and see who the spokespeople are: all these folks have their own social agenda as well with respect to abortion, gay rights, etc., etc. You cannot ignore these agendas and just pick out what you like while touting the Tea Party as the great white hope. And I do not belive them when they say “this is my personal beliefand I would act as a representative of all the people” because we have seen how well that worked out in the past.
I do not view MConnell or Rand Paul as serious candidates and I think Paladino is a disaster waiting to happen. Therefore, despite all the hot air and rhetoric, I cannot take these folks seriously. Although indicating the Tea party wishes to provide an alternative, in fact, I have been provided with yet another unacceptable choice…along with all the other unacceptables in the big two.
Why couldn’t the Tea party have stuck to the “program” as Tom mapped out? You would have won in a landslide.
If you insist on burdenng others with all that went before and all spectrum of the stance from the far out fringe to the moderates, then you have to also insist on accepting the same for those running on the “Tea Party” platform. I truly wish it were not so and more serious and candidates acceptable to more “social” liberals or moderates candidates had been slated…you might have really made a needed difference. You may still in November, but only as long as it takes for Rove to put his fleshy arms around you and smother you…
Cassandra,
Have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? Yes this is a grass roots effort, not astro-turf as some in your party have stated. The republican party also has made that mistake before, ie Sue Lowden in NV and the incumbent Senator from Alaska. As I know you on the outside have no idea about this movement, We have Gays that show up, we have pro choice people show up at Tea Parties, We have African americans, Hispanics and multiracial people involved in the Tea Party, Saying it is a White movement again is insulting and racist.
Tea Party
Taxed
Enough
Already
And Stop spending
THAT IS IT!
Take it from someone very much involved in the movement on a local level.
Just becuase some of the people who show up are different makes us that much stronger and accepting of a broader point of views socially. We have to be accepting if we are going to kick the crap out of the progressives on November 2nd.
I would rather have any of the aforementioned Candidates as President, than the rookie socialist community organizer who never worked a day in his life as preident than the one that we have now in Obama.
What is it exactly that you do not like about their political positions? (EXACTLY) Please no emotional outburst of ridicule. Liberals use words like radical not mainstream. Well that is exactly what we like in these candidates, they are different than the candidates we have elected in the past. GOP or DEM’s.
VOTE THEM ALL OUT!
We are going to vote them all out and replace them with people who will cut our spending and our taxes.
I think I covered this before but please don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. All parties have warts. Unfortunately, the Dems taxing and spending warts have become melanomas that are threatening the life of our nation. If we want to get into the issue of personalities, then let’s be Frank, Barney Frank that is. Last week we learned that this 30 year Congressman who helped craft the Dems financial regulation bill took a nice private jet trip to the Virgin Islands last year. The plane belonged to a huge hedge fund manager who just happened to be dating a Dem member of congress. He skirted the House ethics by stating that he accepted the plane ride from a fellow member of congress, so that made it ok. Charlie Rangel, Maxine Waters, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid are all ethically challenged and they are big spending Dems, so get the Windex out and keep an eye on the glass in your house.
Well said Tom. Cassandra is never going to get it. She rails at anyone who has a different point of view than her beloved Progressives. This ideology has been in play for many years and the 20-30 year guys in Congress on both sides of the aisle have had their chance and look what a mess they have made. The Tea Party candidates do know how to vote and know what the American People want and that is smaller government, less taxes and get the fiscal house in order. Social issues should go to the very back burner until we save this great country.
“You cannot ignore these agendas and just pick out what you like while touting the Tea Party as the great white hope.”
Is that a racist remark Cassandra? Oh my isnt it funny to catch a progressive being a racist.
Why couldn’t the Tea party have stuck to the “program” as Tom mapped out? You would have won in a landslide.
They did and they will on November 2nd.
“You may still in November, but only as long as it takes for Rove to put his fleshy arms around you and smother you…”
Rove does not represent the Tea Party, He actually does not think they stand a chance for much success and has repeated it many times, because of the limited platform and no real agenda. He basically has called the race in Deleware against the Tea Party candidate. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
Good for you Charlie. These Progressive bloggers ala Cassandra can’t win on the issues any more than their Progressive candidates so they resort to name calling, rascist comments about the Tea Party. If she ever attended a Tea Party rally, she would find out that they are good people concerned with the direction of the country and want to reverse the trend of the past 30 years to ever bigger government and entitlements out the kazoo. The Republicans made their share of mistakes and adopted many of the spending schemes and have paid the price. However, Obama and his minions are Bush on steroids and we can’t have that anymore. They all have to go on 11-2.
Are you all so xenophobic that you fail to READ what I wrote?
OK, I apologize…really did not mean “great white hope” to imply racism in any way…is a cliched phrase that I thought apparently everyone would understand… but apparently not…in the context I used it.
Tom, you misunderstand…I am not saying I approve of ANY congressmen taking trips actually paid for by lobbyists…what I am saying is that the candidates that the Tea party has put forth are not sticking to the fiscal agenda; they are throwing in a bunch of social issues (or represent according to their own statements positions on them) that make me uncomfortable (and it is my right to feel that way).
Do you not read what I wrote…or are the loud cacophonous noises you are making block your neurons? I said NONE of the candidates are in any way appealing, regardless of DEM, GOP, or Tea…
Even if elected, the Tea party candidates will be fighting a long battle with both parties entrenched modus opperandi, which as I see it, is selling “we the people” out for “those the special interests.” The danger I see is that, being unable to force the kind of fiscal responsibility that elected them, the TPers will seek perhaps an easier route and do the “social issues” stuff to show that they have done something (to get re elected). it is the social stuff that I have most disagreement with.
Yes, folks, I know Rove is not supporting many TP candidates. However, if you are in any way successful, he will co opt your positions and twist your message…you will be negated. He already has…but I do applaud you for being able to rain on his parade in some of the races! REALLY! Good going!
Some of you are so very busy blasting away at a “liberal” you don’t even understand what I have written.
Good luck and Godspeed. I hope that you are not disappointed on Nov 2, because I don’t think some of your egos could take it. But we “liberals” tend to take a more tolerant view…ya know….more touchy feely…you betcha!…
Cass, I guess I don’t know what your definition is of “social issues” but if you mean entitlements can’t be touched then you are out of touch. If you mean gay rights, abortion rights etc etc, then you are also off the mark with the T party ideal which is fiscal restraint. None of the candidates you have mentioned place any “social issues” at the top of their priority lists.
As far a being radical, you missed my point about radical Dems who cover themselves with the mantle of respectability ala, years of “service” to politics, i.e. Mr. Frank. I see incumbents such as those I named as the true radicals albeit that they are deemed “mainstream” by the left leaning media.
Please don’t fall back on the sophistry that you, a self described liberal, are being misunderstood. The problem libs are having is that they are being clearly understood and the center right majority is fed up with endulging their petulant condescension and and ethereal thinking. The days of Libs thinking that they have the intellectual horsepower to crush debates are over, put to death by reality.
P.S. I assume that your last paragraph was an attempt at sarcastic humor. If, so, I found it a bit too sardonic for my taste. Typically, most Libs take themselves so seriously that effective humor is well beyond their raach. In order to be truly funny, there must be some grain of truth; unfortunately, the tolerance reference falls waaay short since most Libs are not toleranct of any contrary thoughts or ideas.
Its not that liberals are ignorant, its that they know so much about what isnt so.
“Ronald Regan” 1980.
The liberals claim intelectual superiority all the time. All you have to do is watch MSNBC and listen to them state over and over that Obama is the smartest president we have ever had. It is so funny to watch the smartest president not be able to figure out any of the correct answers to our economic situation or even any correct political strategy to the changing political landscape that is facing this administration. Over and over he makes the wrong decissions. First there was if we enact the stimulus unemployment wouldnt go above 8%. (Why did he state that?) Then shovel ready projects, now there is no such thing as a shovel ready project. (Huh). The smartest president sure has made some bumbling mistakes over and over again. He is starting to get almost even with Biden in this area.
Sarah, Your comments are well taken. Don’t forget the one from yesterday to counter what the polls have been saying against his agenda. He basically said that America is scared and citizens aren’t thinking clearly. America is afraid for the future, but we are thinking clearly for the first time in many years and that is why we are rejecting Progressive Socialism. These Progressive guys have made a serious miscalculation and thought they had a mandate to install everything they stand for. We are about to show them the door. I hope they all leave the country after November and go anywhere else.
Tom, despite the 50 cent words and the nice phraseology, you are again liberal bashing for bashings sake.
You totally misunderstand what I am saying but then, why do I even exspect anything better?
You can’t pick and chose what attributes of the candidates you selected and ignore the rest. While you attempt to adhere to the “fiscal” responsibility points, these candidates bring their other agendas to the table as well. You all selected poorly in many cases and you are scaring off the rest of us…unless, of course, you attempt to verbally browbeat us as your blog has attempted to do by begging the question and by…again…(sigh) attacking liberals.
Just cause you say its so don’t make it so!
Amazed, TYPICAL response…”if you don’t like it leave”…then y’all should have been on the first boat out after 2008…..you are feeding off each others frenzy…
(Cass, cover your ears) Since Libs have always dominated academia and the media, they have developed a self perpetuating myth that they are the intelligensia and that the rest of us “cling to our God and Guns” to help us get through the daily struggle of life. They tend to tell each other how smart they are, and they believe it. Those days are waning fast, and they just now awakened to that realization and are deperately flailing about trying to recapture their fantasy. Look at Obama’s near irrational campaign to “fire up” the progressive base. He has tried numerous motivational scenarios, including the current debunked (lie)theory that foregin money is corrupting the election. It all helps prove that not only is this Pres an “empty suit” but he is also an “empty” of effective ideas and intellect.
Isn’t it interesting Tom how Progressives rail when they can’t win on the issues? They think if they can lie, deceive, run personal attack ads they can win an election. Any veneer of respectability has long disappeared. They can no longer drag a center/right country into their Socialist Utopia. 100 years of work is about to go up in smoke on 11-2. Must be very disheartening to them.
Cass, I asked for you to cover your ears as I did a little cathartic venting.
You are afraid of candidates that offer a stark difference between the media schooled professional candidates. They bring a refreshing viewpoint. Yes, I am including Christine O’Donnell, an average person going up against the good ole boy machine.
I actually saw a clip of John McCain’s daughter ridiculing her as someone who woke up one day and decided to run for Senate without any experience. I was gobsmacked (50 cents please) I guess she missed the chapter in her history book mentioning concept of “citizen farmers” going to DC for a limited stay. Maybe she missed the romanticized celluloid version of that concept which was embodied in “Mr. Smith goes to Washington”. Regardless, she parrots the DC group think that “ordinary citizens need not apply”. I say a breath of fresh air is needed and Ms. O’Donnell fills the bill to a T. That thought might be scary to you, but these people could not possibly be as bad as those who now warm the seats in Congress. I think you should re-adjust your fear meter to incorporate the fear of the “know” rather than dwell on your perceptions of these newcomers. This is one time you might consider ditching the proverb “Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don’t”; after all, the election is close to Halloween.
P.S. hope you noticed that I bashed only a republican in my response.
Megan McCain is an airhead and has been living off daddy all her life. What qualifies her to speak to any issue facing the country? Her daddy, Mr. Reach across the aisle has been pushing the Progressive agenda along with his buddy Lindsey Graham for years. See, I bashed two Republicans as well who are part of the problem, not the solution.
Tom and Amazed…THANK YOU…all I wanted was “equal opportunity” (me being a liberal and all that) bashing, because heavens knows, there are enough on BOTH sides of the aisle that need it!
Tom, I think you are stretching it a bit with Christine…she has been a media hound apparently from quite young (didn’t she do the “dabbling in witchcraft” bit when she was 19 or 20 or so?) and I am not quite sure how all that happens…I would envision a modern day Cincinnatis, but she does not fit that bill. As for academe, isn’t Rand Paul a doctor? Isn’t he a professor? Just be fair, just be fair…as you both were in prior posts…
Do you think Christine will campaign in a witch costume on Halloween??? (Sorry, I JUST could not resist…no poloitical content intended)
Lighten up….this election will be very interesting for sure regardless of which way it goes. Has already given the pundits and media darlings a ton of fodder…on BOTH sides…
If O’Donnell does come out in a witch costume, her opponent should be dressed in fine “Lenin” since he subscribes to the Marxist/Progressive agenda. I believe Harry Reid called him one of his favorites. The good people of Delaware surely have enough sense not to send him to Capitol Hill. Rand Paul is not cut from the elitist Republican cloth as well. He is more Libertarian in belief, smaller government, lower taxes etc which is just what this country needs at this point.
Does anyone else see any similarities with the current attempts to “ridicule those who oppose you and their opinions, isolate them and marginalize them”, a classic Alinsky tenet as expressed in his now infamuous book “Rules for Radicals”(see below)? In fact, does anyone see the parallels in how our current Pres has dynamited our healthcare system (1/6th of the economy) by use of this poison pill legislation. Legislation that is designed to drive the private sector under leaving the only option, a single payer system?
We are living in scary times, and not just because Halloween is just around the corner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals
You see ghosts under the bed where there are none.
Rove and his buddies will marginalize you or smother you into non existence well before the “left” will. You will be lucky to survive with your principals intact as a viable political alternative. They will keep the catchphrases but co opt the movement…and we will be back to square one. As I said before, had you stuck to the stated main platform of fiscal responsibility (hopefully, including either raising or revamping taxes in selected ways as well as surgical excission of wasteful and excess spending) and had the individuals representing the movement been more carefully selected, detailing those more limited objectives, you might have suceeded long term. As you see a leftist plot to end private healthcare, I see rightist hidden agendas to abridge the most basic personal freedoms (as I see them)and roll back significant social legislation and protections.
Despite your eloquence Tom, Cassandra is not swayed by the facts. This Congress and Administration has indeed hijacked the Healthcare System of this country. It will lead to much higher costs, ie Boeing announcement, reduced benefits and higher taxes on all Americans. The whole idea of these Marxists is the single payer system and running the private market out of existence. It is the biggest scheme of income redistribution the country has ever seen. That is why we will be kicking them out of office and repealing this monstrocity or defunding it.
Cass, Nice try, but your rhetoric falls way short of the reality. Answering a question with a question is a poor way of debating. Attempts at deflecting the question gets very low marks. I suppose we will next hear the schoolyard refrain of “I am rubber, your glue, what you say to me, sticks to you”.
If you want to debate the evils of leftists v. conservatives that’s fine. Please name for me the countries where conservatives have taken over the governments and installed dictators or politburos.
If I had simply stuck to fiscal responsibilty, I wouldn’t have flushed out the falacious fiscal responsibility agreements you have expressed. As you well know, you can’t espouse “fiscal responsibility” while contemporaneously championing ever expanding entitlements such as Ocare. In other words, your fiscal rhetoric doesn’t come anywhere close to matching your other political thoughts and beliefs.
Amazed, you are on the right wavelength. As things have progressed, one only needs to look at the words and deeds, from comments to Joe the Plumber, Ron Emanuel’s never waste a good crisis, to the take over of GM and to Nancy Pelosi’s remarks yesterday the the Steelworker’s union to understand that this is no longer a hidden agenda. They are being up front with their progressive socialist attempts to re-shape America by re-distribution of wealth through control of individual wealth and corporate profit. This is now a full on frontal assault of the capitalist system by replacing it with “crony capitalism” to advance the socialist agenda.
Fortunately, the internet has been instrumental in helping to identify this trend and has motivated the majority of the people to begin to question what is going on in DC and how it can be halted, then reversed. Nov 2nd will be one step in a long journey to right the ship of state. As it turns out, Supreme Court Justice Brandeis’ was right “sunshine is indeed the best disinfectant”.
Tom, as usual, you hit the nail on the head. Now that Progressives have emerged from the shadows, their true intentions are now known by us that still have a brain. It is not a pretty picture. I have to laugh when I see many of them so surprised that their agenda is being roundly rejected by the majority of the citizens. We were being set up by Obama and his minions and the complicit media and almost brainwashed into thinking these ideas had merit. Reality has set in with all the bad policies put in place. Americans don’t like this and now will reject them on 11-2. I expect Pelosi to resign shortly after losing her leadership since she won’t be able to just be another house member and will lose her jet privileges.
Rove has nothing to do with the Tea Party! Cassandra, I think you would be better off commenting on something that you know more about. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal responsibilty, Only the liberal media wants our platform to be broadened to make it less palatable to indepedents and democrats, which we have many members of in the Tea Party. I will state it again for you, The Tea Party does not have a leader and is much bigger than any one person it is about taking back our country from carrier politicians who spend and waste our money on things that we really do not care about or need. PERIOD!
Good for you Sarah. Tom has very eloquently explained to Cassandra on at least a dozen treatises the error of her thinking and it just bounces off her like water on a duck. Logical Conservative views which are basic common sense is completely lost on her since she is committed to the uber left and their agenda. She mistakenly links Rove to the Tea Party and he is more of a Republican semi conservative and has nothing to do with the TEA Party and has on occasion bashed them for not having a leader. The beauty of the TEA party is that they don’t have a career politician leader. They are going to effect their influence at the ballot box on 11-2. It is interesting to me that Dick Morris was an advisor to Clinton in their hay day and now he has gotten religion and is about as conservative as it gets and has committed to help conservatives get elected and defeat these leftist ideologues.
Folks…I GET it. But just as the “left”: is being demonized in the media, so to, is the Tea Party and its candidates…and the press is NOT all liberal.
Sarah, I perfectly understand what you are saying; I am saying that you have chosen candidates that also have expressed hidden agendas, much as they try to avoid it.
Amazed, I GET it that Rove is not a Tea party supporter. What I am saying is that he will embrace your talking points (especially if you are successful in November) and you will be smothered. He’s a real clever guy.
Tom, you say I do not argue on point, but then you defy gravity and fly into areas I was ot referring to…if I am so guilty, then you are as well.
I guess if “Obamacare” as you so nastily call it is to “redistribute wealth” and by that you mean preventing people from becoming bankrupt because they can niether afford their medical bills or afford or even secure the insurance that would help prevent this, than so be it.
YOU are the ones who do not understand…or rather chose not to. Hope you enjoy supporting a movement that will end up as an historical footnote…sort of like the Know Nothings, maybe. There is no discussing anything with you; you feed on your own rhetoric. ENJOY!
Cass, I do ENJOY the company of the other Mteers but I also ENJOY discussing the politics of Ocare, which is a small part of a larger agenda.. Maybe you have missed my more nuanced segues but they are there.
I have tried to give you specifics rather than political puffery but it seems you want to hold onto your Marxist views (don’t get to bent out of shape, in this instance I mean Groucho ala “are you going to belive me or your lying eyes”) I prefer to see the world as it is through both eyes, not just my left eye.
In any event, I haven’t given up on you. I admire your spunk and intelligence and I am holding out hope that eventually Ego will prevail over the Id.
When do you think Cassandra will wake up and realize her social utopia is not going to happen and join us 3 musketeers who have been trying to educate her on the evils of the Obama agenda and Marxism in general? I say probably not since she is a true believer and more than likely a worshipper of Nancy Pelosi who can’t get a coherent sentence said no matter how short the speech. Income redistribution is her watchword as long as we don’t redistribute her considerable wealth. She won’t have to sign up for Obamacare since Congress is exempted.
The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . .
and think 25 to life would be appropriate. — Jay Leno
America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask. — Jay Leno
Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?
A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it. — Conan O’Brien
Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser. — Jay Leno
Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society.
The other is for housing prisoners. — David Letterman
Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean
and it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America ! — Jimmy Fallon
Q: What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
A: Bo has papers. — Jimmy Kimmel
Q: What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road. –David Letterman
Tom
How much MORE condescending and patronizing could your little last blog POSSIBLY be? Folks, now we all know the definition of what a left handed compliment is. After that little treatise, am I supposed to sit at your feet and listen for the pearls of wisdom to drop from your lips? Boy, how to win friends and influence people!
Loved the jokes…I enjoy political humor…too bad I don’t have the time to gather all the ones pointed the other way! And they are MANY! Thanks for the chuckles.
Of course there are more jokes about conservatives (mainly just Bush) – the media and comedic community are liberals.
There aren’t a lot of conservative comics because many, if not most, are Christians and aren’t allowed to drop to that level.
The proof exists – this administration and Congress are poop!!! There is no way to justify otherwise.
American’s can smell weak/dirty leadership from a mile away.
Let Nov. 2nd be the judge… no more use arguing.
OH, I get in NOW…you all are paranoid about everything. Thanks, NO, NOW I DO get it.
Hasta la Vista………
Cass, I apologize for my insensitivity. Maybe my tongue was too firmly planted in my cheek.
I will revist my Oracle status as maybe that status may be seen as overwhelming a demigod-you do recall what happend to Cassandra. However, I see you more as a Muse, say Melpomene and definately not a Harpy.
P.S. See, I can be ambidextrous. Now back to the Aeneid.
Tom, your problem is that you see things clearly and have common sense about what is right and what is wrong. People like Cassandra see things through rose colored glasses and unfortunately has been brain washed by some leftist professor somewhere who convinced her that Socialism/Marxism is the way to go in this country. “We, the People” are going to hold all politicians on a short leash from now on and any who proclaim that they support these huge Progressive spending programs will be dismissed forthwith starting with 11-2. I voted on the first day of early voting.
I have my fingers crossed. Being a realist, I can’t discount the possibility that the ends justifies the means crowd won’t come out to vote and dampen the effect. And, of course, the means may entail some early and often voting by peopl’s whose residence is a six foot plot and many many illegal voters. Conservative candidates in states where this typically occurs must be sure that they have a good ground game to turn out the vote and have poll watchers to challenge Frankenvoting (reference to the MN comdian senator).
Yo, Tom…yes, I know very well what happened to Cassandra…she saw things clearly the horrible things that would happen to her, her family, her Trojan people but no one believed her and thought she was crazy. for that she was raped and enslaved by the victorious Greek king, whose jealous wife eventually killed her. O chose my “nomme de guerre” well, I think.
Amazed, i think it is you who are seeing the world with rose colored glasses; you have a truly naive faith that your little movement will actually make a difference against the monied and entrenched forces operating symbiotically with our Congress…they will eat you alive if you are any way successful…all they need do is just revise the propaganda machine a bit…and you are engulfed (think amoeba feeding). I am much more cynical; would that I were not…
ne last word before I leave this blog forever 9I KNOW you are cheering):
first they came for the steelworkers, but I was not a steelworker, so I did nothing
then they came for the autoworkers, but i was not an autoworkers, so I did nothing
then they came for the textile worker, but I wads not a textile workers, so I did nothing
then they came for the customer service workers, but I was not a customer service worker so I did nothing
then they came for me.
Good luck and Godspeed.
Cass, I hope you meant nom de plume. If not, then I would have anticipated your pen name to be Che.
That is all for this thread.
See you on a later thread.
Cass, I will agree with you that we are up against powerful forces of the Unions, left wing ideologues and other special interests who have bought influence and votes in Congress which have made it corrupt beyond recognition. It may actually take two election cycles to rid the country of these idiots, however you may have forgotten that We the People have awakened from our slumber of the past 20-30 years now and now see with very clear eyes how bad these people are and will remedy it in the voting booth on 11-2 and subsequent elections. Harry & Nancy pack your bags and clean out your office. You are fired.