We will se and endless stream of useless hearings on such important issues as whether or not Obama’s barber uses energy efficient clippers or if Michelle’s toothpaste is puppy-free. Nothing quite like a republican majority and a Democratic President.
I can’t wait for the hearings to start in January which will bring out all the backroom deals struck by the Democrats with Big Insurance and Big Pharma. There is a lot of money to be made if the bill stands as written. The best we can hope for is that the worst parts of the bill will be struck down or eliminated. Perhaps these dudes don’t realize that we are headed for a single payer system and the Health Insurance Industry will cease to exist in a few short years unless it is repealed or defunded.
Some of the worst things are the mandates that say you must purchase a policy or be fined. People will pay the fine, wait until they get sick and then get it because they cannot be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. I am sure there are 2,600 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be allowed to stand. A reason per page.
Just wait. Hospitals,doctors, clinics and any other medical provider will have a separate office to enroll the uninsured once they have been diagnosed with a condition that will require a lot of medical expense, because the so called uninsured, that Obama wants to have coverage, are not going to purchase coverage. They will pay the fine and only enroll for coverage when it is needed since they have preexisting conditions that will now be covered. They could not or would not purchase medical insurance before, because they could not afford it, or they just did not want it. So, premiums will continue to rise and be unaffordable not just for the poor, but for the middle class. Then the middle class will decide to pay the fine and wait until they need it to purchase it.
So, what Big Med is saying goes something like this: “Yes, it was a terrible concept with an equally terrible outcome; but, Hey, at least it’s a “stable” policy!”
That’s kind of like saying, “Hey, I know we are in some really deep and nasty poop, but at least we know where we are!”
Have we completely lost our minds?!
Everyone knows that no Battle goes as planned. But without a battle plan we have no where to go. At least with this Law, we know have 3 years to get or make it right.
check out the book “Bias” by Bernard Goldberg. I dare you. I picked it up a few years ago. Like you, I didn’t believe in the so-called “liberal press.” The book changed my mind.
If you spend time with the law, and understand a good amount of what’s in there, it becomes plainly obvious this cannot be made right. This monstrosity is an affront to every person’s intelligence who actually spends time understanding it. And it’s quite the surprise the healthcare and drug companies, who were in the room writing the bill with the leftists, are opposed to changing requirements that every single person in America buy their products, by force.
Don’t believe everything you read. I can’t wait for the left to jump on board the “gee big insurers and big pharma” love it and then defend their heretofore nemeses. This will be great fun to watch the contorted logic behind the “see Ocare is good….isn’t it?)
It all depends on who’s ox is getting gored. Right now, it looks like the American People’s ox is in deep trouble. There are so many complicit forces involved with this issue. Main stream media championing the Socialist agenda, back room deals with big Med, big Pharma, corrupt politicians with pay offs for votes. It is all quite unbelievable. The Progressives have imbedded themselves into the body electorate and are like leeches sucking the life blood out of the folks. We need a serious transfusion of Conservatism and investigations to bring it out into the open and stop it.
Unless this is repealed WELCOME TO NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. It is next to impossible if not impossible for a company to stay on the grandfathered plan. If a coinsurance amount is changed the plan will no longer be grandfathered. If the premiums go up and a company decides to change insurance carriers the grandfathered clause is history. This is just a couple of exam;ples of a multitude of why this law needs to be changed.
Who actually opposes this? Has anyone surveyed the families who can now purchase insurance for their children who were born with “pre-existing” conditions. How about families who can keep their kids on the family plan until they can get their own or age 26. Most responsible AMERICANS were raised understanding it was a personal responsibility for us to carry health insurance and life insurance. The Heritage Foundation touted this for YEARS because they don’t think ANYONE is entitled to FREE healthcare. Why should you expect a doctor, pharmacy or hospital to admit you and provide for you when you don’t take personal responsibility. If there is to be an exemption, perhaps the exempted person has to post a “bond” and if they get ill or injured then that’s all they get access to. Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare…so what will they do?
Who actually opposes this? Has anyone surveyed the families who can now purchase insurance for their children who were born with “pre-existing” conditions. How about families who can keep their kids on the family plan until they can get their own or age 26. Most responsible AMERICANS were raised understanding it was a personal responsibility for us to carry health insurance and life insurance. The Heritage Foundation touted this for YEARS because they don’t think ANYONE is entitled to FREE healthcare. Why should you expect a doctor, pharmacy or hospital to admit you and provide for you when you don’t take personal responsibility. If there is to be an exemption, perhaps the exempted person has to post a “bond” and if they get ill or injured then that’s all they get access to. Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare…so what will they do?
If the “boyz” don’t mind Obamacare, I have(!) to care.I’ve never experienced a CEO of any company to agree to any government reform unless it puts money in their company’s pocket and that’s fair for them but not for me. Think AARP when they backed Obamacare as the only thing they thought of was more fees from the med advertisers.
Unfortunately, the child pre-ex was written so poorly, that insurers have discovered that there are plenty of exceptions that has allowed them to tighten their policy underwriting and have NOT STARTED writing child only policies and WILL NOT rewrite some policies that would have included such an option. This is the “law of unintended consequences” and points out why it needs to be repealed and popular reform completed with well crafted laws that are laser like in affecting the change.
so what exactly are you willing to cover? all we hear is repeal repeal repeal.. absolutely no ideas or policies, just empty rhetoric. What are you willing to put into the law? Give details and options rather than repeal, repeal, repeal. sounds like a parent who says “because I said so.”
Let’s just leave everything as is and the Republicans can go back to denying there is a problem and the fact that WE, ALL OF US, are already paying for the uninsured. Requiring everyone to participate is nothing compared to how the system runs (or does not run) now.
Increase portability
Eliminate Pre-ex with extended run in/run out coverage and gov underwriting for the 1-2 year pre-ex period.
Eliminate the insurance mandate
Work on “provider costs” which are the driver for insurance rate increases
Create a catastrophic reinsurance pool for significant life threatening/aletring illness and disease underwritten by the gov and a “reinsurance premuim”.
Tort reform
That should get it started in the right direction. A law for each item that does not give HHS the final say in drafting thousands of pages of “rules” and “regulations” to implement the law and does not require DOZENS and DOZENS of new agencies and commissions to oversee the reg and rules.
In other words, take as much of the POLITICS as we can out of the system. This new law put politics ahead of care by making employers and consumers go on bended knee to get accommodations, specail rule changes and favors. This complicated law has made “insurance” a political purchase decision with bureaucrats as “masters” of the process. If you can’t see that, you may be in need of eye care.
Nan, it’s the people who scream the loudest (see Fox, Glen Beck, Sarah P, etc.)make up stuff along the way (death panels), and who relate everything to “the American People” (gee, it’s what the American People want, isn’t it?) who color the debate one way.
Tom, Isn’t it great how the left keeps saying Conservatives have no plan and we ought to keep the one they passed? They live in their own little world and never consider there may be something else to consider which will not bankrupt the country like Obamacare is sure to do. You have explained patiently to all these left bloggers from Cassandra to Nan how bad their plan is and what needs to be done to fix it. Yes, we are going to insist on repeal or defunding this monstrocity and common sense solutions to be applied.
It seems some people are impervious to answers they either don’t like or can’t comprehend. They rale at Fox Fox Fox, without realizing the hypocricy of their vacuous position-i.e., they don’t know what they are talking about, all they know are talking points.
We can get effective reform that benefits a vast majority but not while the left fails to yield to valid points concerning how a hastily cobbled plan pushed through without true debate to winnow out the bad ideas can have a monsterously negative affect on our budget AND our healthcare system. I have yet to see a person on the left concede to any factual argument other than an ethereal belief that we must suffer from it before it can be changed so we can appreicate its benefits. For me, I don’t have to put my hand on a red glowing element on my stove to know that I am going to get severely burned. For the life of my, I can’t understand how this proponents can buy into San Fran Nan’s “we must pass it to know what’s in it” logic. That comment alone should have sent shivers up every American’s spine.
You are right Tom. These people get their talking points from MSNBC or CNN or the mainstream media who have been championing this bill since the start. They don’t realize all the very bad policy that is in it which is so ruinous to our society. Is there no curiosity on their part that a bill written by the far left, backroom deals and political payoffs ad nauseum, not read or debated before voted on, opposed by the majority of Americans might be bad for America? Why would 111 exemptions for big business and Unions be granted for this bill if it were so good for the country?
Good One! I would vote for Tom & Sarah if they want to run. They do make a lot of sense even though Nan and Cassandra wouldn’t think so. They think in terms of social(ist) issues and Tom & Sarah cut through all that to common sense solutions. This plan is so outrageous and bad for the country, it defies description and must be overturned or dismantled and something like Tom proposed to replace it.
We will se and endless stream of useless hearings on such important issues as whether or not Obama’s barber uses energy efficient clippers or if Michelle’s toothpaste is puppy-free. Nothing quite like a republican majority and a Democratic President.
Second only to a Republican President and a liberal press.
I can’t wait for the hearings to start in January which will bring out all the backroom deals struck by the Democrats with Big Insurance and Big Pharma. There is a lot of money to be made if the bill stands as written. The best we can hope for is that the worst parts of the bill will be struck down or eliminated. Perhaps these dudes don’t realize that we are headed for a single payer system and the Health Insurance Industry will cease to exist in a few short years unless it is repealed or defunded.
Would you oppose repeal of a law that guarantees someone has to buy your products at what ever price you can manipulate.
Its an unconstitutional mandate!
Please direct me to the liberal press. I have heard much about it over the years but can’t find anything other than center/right.
Thanks
Some of the worst things are the mandates that say you must purchase a policy or be fined. People will pay the fine, wait until they get sick and then get it because they cannot be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. I am sure there are 2,600 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be allowed to stand. A reason per page.
Just wait. Hospitals,doctors, clinics and any other medical provider will have a separate office to enroll the uninsured once they have been diagnosed with a condition that will require a lot of medical expense, because the so called uninsured, that Obama wants to have coverage, are not going to purchase coverage. They will pay the fine and only enroll for coverage when it is needed since they have preexisting conditions that will now be covered. They could not or would not purchase medical insurance before, because they could not afford it, or they just did not want it. So, premiums will continue to rise and be unaffordable not just for the poor, but for the middle class. Then the middle class will decide to pay the fine and wait until they need it to purchase it.
So, what Big Med is saying goes something like this: “Yes, it was a terrible concept with an equally terrible outcome; but, Hey, at least it’s a “stable” policy!”
That’s kind of like saying, “Hey, I know we are in some really deep and nasty poop, but at least we know where we are!”
Have we completely lost our minds?!
If they don’t pay for mandatory insurance and are fined or jailed, at least there will be free medical care while incarcerated!
Everyone knows that no Battle goes as planned. But without a battle plan we have no where to go. At least with this Law, we know have 3 years to get or make it right.
KR–
check out the book “Bias” by Bernard Goldberg. I dare you. I picked it up a few years ago. Like you, I didn’t believe in the so-called “liberal press.” The book changed my mind.
If you spend time with the law, and understand a good amount of what’s in there, it becomes plainly obvious this cannot be made right. This monstrosity is an affront to every person’s intelligence who actually spends time understanding it. And it’s quite the surprise the healthcare and drug companies, who were in the room writing the bill with the leftists, are opposed to changing requirements that every single person in America buy their products, by force.
Don’t believe everything you read. I can’t wait for the left to jump on board the “gee big insurers and big pharma” love it and then defend their heretofore nemeses. This will be great fun to watch the contorted logic behind the “see Ocare is good….isn’t it?)
I smell a rat in the ratporting of this story.
It all depends on who’s ox is getting gored. Right now, it looks like the American People’s ox is in deep trouble. There are so many complicit forces involved with this issue. Main stream media championing the Socialist agenda, back room deals with big Med, big Pharma, corrupt politicians with pay offs for votes. It is all quite unbelievable. The Progressives have imbedded themselves into the body electorate and are like leeches sucking the life blood out of the folks. We need a serious transfusion of Conservatism and investigations to bring it out into the open and stop it.
Unless this is repealed WELCOME TO NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. It is next to impossible if not impossible for a company to stay on the grandfathered plan. If a coinsurance amount is changed the plan will no longer be grandfathered. If the premiums go up and a company decides to change insurance carriers the grandfathered clause is history. This is just a couple of exam;ples of a multitude of why this law needs to be changed.
Oh, please….
Try NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR, New York Times, Washington Post, Huffington Post, etc, etc, etc.
Who actually opposes this? Has anyone surveyed the families who can now purchase insurance for their children who were born with “pre-existing” conditions. How about families who can keep their kids on the family plan until they can get their own or age 26. Most responsible AMERICANS were raised understanding it was a personal responsibility for us to carry health insurance and life insurance. The Heritage Foundation touted this for YEARS because they don’t think ANYONE is entitled to FREE healthcare. Why should you expect a doctor, pharmacy or hospital to admit you and provide for you when you don’t take personal responsibility. If there is to be an exemption, perhaps the exempted person has to post a “bond” and if they get ill or injured then that’s all they get access to. Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare…so what will they do?
Who actually opposes this? Has anyone surveyed the families who can now purchase insurance for their children who were born with “pre-existing” conditions. How about families who can keep their kids on the family plan until they can get their own or age 26. Most responsible AMERICANS were raised understanding it was a personal responsibility for us to carry health insurance and life insurance. The Heritage Foundation touted this for YEARS because they don’t think ANYONE is entitled to FREE healthcare. Why should you expect a doctor, pharmacy or hospital to admit you and provide for you when you don’t take personal responsibility. If there is to be an exemption, perhaps the exempted person has to post a “bond” and if they get ill or injured then that’s all they get access to. Republicans ran on repealing Obamacare…so what will they do?
If the “boyz” don’t mind Obamacare, I have(!) to care.I’ve never experienced a CEO of any company to agree to any government reform unless it puts money in their company’s pocket and that’s fair for them but not for me. Think AARP when they backed Obamacare as the only thing they thought of was more fees from the med advertisers.
Unfortunately, the child pre-ex was written so poorly, that insurers have discovered that there are plenty of exceptions that has allowed them to tighten their policy underwriting and have NOT STARTED writing child only policies and WILL NOT rewrite some policies that would have included such an option. This is the “law of unintended consequences” and points out why it needs to be repealed and popular reform completed with well crafted laws that are laser like in affecting the change.
so what exactly are you willing to cover? all we hear is repeal repeal repeal.. absolutely no ideas or policies, just empty rhetoric. What are you willing to put into the law? Give details and options rather than repeal, repeal, repeal. sounds like a parent who says “because I said so.”
Let’s just leave everything as is and the Republicans can go back to denying there is a problem and the fact that WE, ALL OF US, are already paying for the uninsured. Requiring everyone to participate is nothing compared to how the system runs (or does not run) now.
Increase portability
Eliminate Pre-ex with extended run in/run out coverage and gov underwriting for the 1-2 year pre-ex period.
Eliminate the insurance mandate
Work on “provider costs” which are the driver for insurance rate increases
Create a catastrophic reinsurance pool for significant life threatening/aletring illness and disease underwritten by the gov and a “reinsurance premuim”.
Tort reform
That should get it started in the right direction. A law for each item that does not give HHS the final say in drafting thousands of pages of “rules” and “regulations” to implement the law and does not require DOZENS and DOZENS of new agencies and commissions to oversee the reg and rules.
In other words, take as much of the POLITICS as we can out of the system. This new law put politics ahead of care by making employers and consumers go on bended knee to get accommodations, specail rule changes and favors. This complicated law has made “insurance” a political purchase decision with bureaucrats as “masters” of the process. If you can’t see that, you may be in need of eye care.
Nan, it’s the people who scream the loudest (see Fox, Glen Beck, Sarah P, etc.)make up stuff along the way (death panels), and who relate everything to “the American People” (gee, it’s what the American People want, isn’t it?) who color the debate one way.
Tom, Isn’t it great how the left keeps saying Conservatives have no plan and we ought to keep the one they passed? They live in their own little world and never consider there may be something else to consider which will not bankrupt the country like Obamacare is sure to do. You have explained patiently to all these left bloggers from Cassandra to Nan how bad their plan is and what needs to be done to fix it. Yes, we are going to insist on repeal or defunding this monstrocity and common sense solutions to be applied.
It seems some people are impervious to answers they either don’t like or can’t comprehend. They rale at Fox Fox Fox, without realizing the hypocricy of their vacuous position-i.e., they don’t know what they are talking about, all they know are talking points.
We can get effective reform that benefits a vast majority but not while the left fails to yield to valid points concerning how a hastily cobbled plan pushed through without true debate to winnow out the bad ideas can have a monsterously negative affect on our budget AND our healthcare system. I have yet to see a person on the left concede to any factual argument other than an ethereal belief that we must suffer from it before it can be changed so we can appreicate its benefits. For me, I don’t have to put my hand on a red glowing element on my stove to know that I am going to get severely burned. For the life of my, I can’t understand how this proponents can buy into San Fran Nan’s “we must pass it to know what’s in it” logic. That comment alone should have sent shivers up every American’s spine.
You are right Tom. These people get their talking points from MSNBC or CNN or the mainstream media who have been championing this bill since the start. They don’t realize all the very bad policy that is in it which is so ruinous to our society. Is there no curiosity on their part that a bill written by the far left, backroom deals and political payoffs ad nauseum, not read or debated before voted on, opposed by the majority of Americans might be bad for America? Why would 111 exemptions for big business and Unions be granted for this bill if it were so good for the country?
To commonsense, your post was right on the money. There’s a reason I’ve stated “TOM & SARAH” in 2012 (if Ron Paul doesn’t run that is) :)
The problem is everything Tom says is falling on deaf ears (on the left at least)
Good One! I would vote for Tom & Sarah if they want to run. They do make a lot of sense even though Nan and Cassandra wouldn’t think so. They think in terms of social(ist) issues and Tom & Sarah cut through all that to common sense solutions. This plan is so outrageous and bad for the country, it defies description and must be overturned or dismantled and something like Tom proposed to replace it.