Fewer trips to the doctor because individual costs have skyrocketed in preparation for the new health care law. People have stopped going to the doctor for sniffles when their HMO paid everything. Now that they have copays with large deductibles, they are wait for the real issues. Finally something good from BO Care! It reduces petty doctor visits.
Fewer trips to the doctor have not lowered the premiums any. We see unending rate increases passed on by the carriers who are anticipating covering everyone with all pre-existing conditions in the near future. In the meantime, doctors, hospitals, clinics and vendors continue to rip off the cash cow of Medicare because they can get away with it.
Agreed. One key point to the story was when the exec stated with the fewer trips his company has not had to request increases greater than 10%. Liabilities are decreasing and they are still raising costs!
If I remember right, I saw an article recently that the Aetna CEO was a supporter of Obama. I think at least some of the companies anticipate being shills for the legislation and doing the online applications for health insurance under the exchanges and cutting the agents out of the picture since they have to operate on only 15-20% and pay the rest out in benefits. A good way to do that is not pay commissions to agents in the future.
I realize that this is the Insurance Journal and that there are many agents who have vested interests in the status quo. It’s unfortunate that someone has to get off the gravy train that our health care system has devolved to over the last few decades. Everyone is making money hand over fist. Doctors, hospitals, health insurance companies, pharamceutical companies, agents, and yes, even lawyers. Everyone is making a boatload of money and guess who pays the bills?
Those of us who have health insurance pay the bills. Something has to give, and if that means that agents lose their piece of the action in order to bring down costs, I say, oh well. We can’t expect everyone to keep making record profits and at the same time hope that healthcare costs come down.
Making sure that everyone is insured is a good start and will prevent uninsured “free riders” (or should I say “free loaders”)from drivng costs up even further.
I knew you would show up to put your 2 cents worth in. Obviously you aren’t an agent who has worked hard to put health business on the books and help customers. Our ox is the one getting gored in this debate. You probably don’t realize that our Individual commisions have been cut by the companies and Group commissions are a joke. Do you realize how much work is involved in putting plans together and how hard it is to keep customers happy when they get rate increases? In addition, this law is so bad on so many levels, it will kill jobs in every industry including insurance and there is nothing affordable about this bill when the companies have to take everyone with pre-existing conditions. It doesn’t work for Great Britain, Canada or any other country and you think it would be good for this country. Why are thousands of companies and unions asking for waivers from it if the bill is good.
January 19, 2012 at 5:32 pm
The Other Point of View says:
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You knew I would weigh in, just as I knew you would. :)
I know that agents will probably lose a share of their commissions. Again, I say too bad. If you want to bring the cost of healthcare down, someone has to lose. Someone has to make less money or else the cost doesn’t come down. It’s simple arithmatic. So, you tell me, who should get paid less in order to make the cost less?
We can start with agency commissions, but if you don’t like that, what do you suggest? How about healthcare and pharmaceutical company executive compensation?
Please don’t start in on the “eliminate waste, fraud and abuse” garbage. Even taken at its worst case estimates, if you eliminated it all it wouldn’t put a dent in the cost of healthcare. Plenty of states have enacted tough tort reform measures and it hasn’t reduced healthcare costs in those states.
The problem with our health care system is two-fold. (1) too many uninsured seek medical care driving up teh cost because they can’t pay, forcing hospitals and doctors to charge more to those that have insurance and can pay (2) Too many hands in the cookie jar, everyone making a profit.
The solution is to eliminate some of the profit takers or reduce their profits and get everyone insured.
January 20, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Vinnie Goomba says:
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Get your head out of Obama’s butt, will you TOPoV?!?? REALLY?!!?!? How brainwashed can you be??
January 20, 2012 at 12:28 am
norm Nunnally says:
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Hearing the Aetna CEO tapdance around the true issue of this “mandate” is what causes so many customers and agents to be distrustful of Insurance Carriers (oops, I mean Health care Solutions Providers). The way the Healthcare system operates under the guise of insurance or health solutions is just a ponzi scheme. Most real agents (excluding con-artists and crooks) won’t have anything to do with healthcare. The real issue is: Can the Federal Government force an individual to purchase something they do not want. There is protection, or there is supposed to be individual protection from the “government” taking from citizens. Imminent domaine is the way it should be done, not reaching into my personal finances and ripping it out of my wallet.
The typical agent makes 5% or LESS on a policy that is written. 5% … If we cut that in half 2.5%. OH now we are making headway. Besides … why not just cut the agent out all together … O now you pay 5% less and now you don’t have any of the service when it comes to doing many things that most people can’t seem to do. SUCH AS FIND A DOCTOR IN NETWORK .. WORK OUT PROBLEMS WHEN THEY GET UNECISSARY BILLS and much much more. THUMBS DOWN TO YOU TALKING ABOUT AGENTS COMMISIONS … THUMBS UP to those talking about Imminent domain !!!!!
TOPOV, obviously you are not from Texas which did Tort Reform a few years ago. It has made a difference in Medical Malpractice premiums for doctors and hospitals. Are there crooks still out there billing double and triple for things? Are they still ripping off Medicare for $100 Billion? Yes, because they can and get away with it. Are there any politicians out there jumping up and down about fraud and abuse? No, because they are in the hip pocket of the special interests and have no interest in upsetting the gravy train. Companies are better at catching fraud than the government is and they have networks which only pay a certain amount for procedures, tests etc. $100 Billion may not sound like a lot to you for fraud and waste, but it does to me and a lot of other people. That is why a government program is not in the best interests of the folks and will never work efficiently or reduce the cost of healthcare. The foxes are guarding the hen house, understand now?
TOPOV: Gravy train? Really? What you’re going to see now are brokerage fees rather than simply commissions. Do you honestly think agents will work for free? Do you honestly think that companies will provide the services agents do for free? When work is to be done, it must be paid for. It’ll be a commission, a brokerage fee, an application fee, or something else entirely.
The people riding the ‘gravy train’ are those who want something at a price lower than its actual cost of delivery.
The medical loss ratio portion of the law actually encourages insurance companies to find ways to raise expenses, not lower them! If their profit is only going to go up when expenses go up, it is in their best interest to pay more for each procedure, not less.
Love how whiners complain bitterly about health reform as if everything was rosy, or even merely getting better, prior to it. Uhhhm, no – no, it wasn’t.
At the same time, I’m with brokers complaining about being low man on the MLR totem pole.
Bertolini’s comp is the comp that should be cut. Health insurers’ role should be to insure, AND ONLY INSURE, rather than manage care. The ‘services’ that make up contemporary health insurance products can and should be “componentized”, and put together for groups and individuals via expert brokers, much like Dell builds computers.
Some people will still prefer one firm building their product end-to-end, a la Apple, and are willing to pay a premium for the difference in quality they perceive (I personally feel they’re nuts – as I do Apple zealots ;)).
Many would find they’d enjoy a better (more responsive) product, at a more affordable if not attractive price, with a revamped conception and execution of the product itself.
Lots of complaints here about how the insurance industry and agents therein & the mandate are all problems.
As an insurance fraud investigator, do you mind if I weigh in here?
The AHCA – did little to address the actual cost of health care. Sure there are some things in there that are good: increasing clinics for the poor to go to, electronic records to make the industry more efficient, tuition assistance for students wanting to become health care providers, and a reporting board for doctors to submit their treatment plans and results so best practices can be identified and shared with others that will help reduce costs, to name a few.
Being on the insurance side of things — and I’m NOT in health care, but auto, yet have interactions with those purely in the public and private sector — there is much the industry could do. On the private side, to start with, we need the Stark Amendment to be applicable.
The investment opportunities the providers have opted into over the years creates a conflict of interest involving MRI, surgery centers, DME, and many others that are problematic. A current investigation involving neurosurgeons is thus far indicating millions of dollars in unnecessary surgeries.
We need stronger state boards to actually discipline providers when they cross the line, rather than give them a rap on the knuckle and allow them to do an Alfred Plea. We are also facing issues involving ownership and tele-medicine. For example a radiologist living in one state while reading x-rays taken in another state – or for that matter somewhere else in the world.
If you want malpractice insurance costs and claims to be reduced (a VERY SMALL percentage of the cost of health care), then the bad doctors need to be eliminated from practicing or some serious steps taken before then can be allowed to practice again. But State AG’s are leery about taking away a person’s livelihood, and fraud isn’t high on their list, nor is killing a patient. Rape will get you there. And the providers know it.
The health care system is broken and it is beyond complicated to try and sort out. It begins with the high cost of educating our providers and goes on from there. We have more specialists than we have general practitioners, also increasing our costs.
But until the people, both the health care industry and the insurance industry, along with our politicians, understand the full extent of the problems and AGREE on how to fix it were just going to keep up this p*ssing match and nothing is going to get fixed and all those people who are the gravy train (and there are plenty from fraudsters to CEOs) are going to keep moving down the track while we policyholders and taxpayers pay the bills.
Fewer trips to the doctor because individual costs have skyrocketed in preparation for the new health care law. People have stopped going to the doctor for sniffles when their HMO paid everything. Now that they have copays with large deductibles, they are wait for the real issues. Finally something good from BO Care! It reduces petty doctor visits.
Fewer trips to the doctor have not lowered the premiums any. We see unending rate increases passed on by the carriers who are anticipating covering everyone with all pre-existing conditions in the near future. In the meantime, doctors, hospitals, clinics and vendors continue to rip off the cash cow of Medicare because they can get away with it.
Agreed. One key point to the story was when the exec stated with the fewer trips his company has not had to request increases greater than 10%. Liabilities are decreasing and they are still raising costs!
If I remember right, I saw an article recently that the Aetna CEO was a supporter of Obama. I think at least some of the companies anticipate being shills for the legislation and doing the online applications for health insurance under the exchanges and cutting the agents out of the picture since they have to operate on only 15-20% and pay the rest out in benefits. A good way to do that is not pay commissions to agents in the future.
I realize that this is the Insurance Journal and that there are many agents who have vested interests in the status quo. It’s unfortunate that someone has to get off the gravy train that our health care system has devolved to over the last few decades. Everyone is making money hand over fist. Doctors, hospitals, health insurance companies, pharamceutical companies, agents, and yes, even lawyers. Everyone is making a boatload of money and guess who pays the bills?
Those of us who have health insurance pay the bills. Something has to give, and if that means that agents lose their piece of the action in order to bring down costs, I say, oh well. We can’t expect everyone to keep making record profits and at the same time hope that healthcare costs come down.
Making sure that everyone is insured is a good start and will prevent uninsured “free riders” (or should I say “free loaders”)from drivng costs up even further.
I knew you would show up to put your 2 cents worth in. Obviously you aren’t an agent who has worked hard to put health business on the books and help customers. Our ox is the one getting gored in this debate. You probably don’t realize that our Individual commisions have been cut by the companies and Group commissions are a joke. Do you realize how much work is involved in putting plans together and how hard it is to keep customers happy when they get rate increases? In addition, this law is so bad on so many levels, it will kill jobs in every industry including insurance and there is nothing affordable about this bill when the companies have to take everyone with pre-existing conditions. It doesn’t work for Great Britain, Canada or any other country and you think it would be good for this country. Why are thousands of companies and unions asking for waivers from it if the bill is good.
You knew I would weigh in, just as I knew you would. :)
I know that agents will probably lose a share of their commissions. Again, I say too bad. If you want to bring the cost of healthcare down, someone has to lose. Someone has to make less money or else the cost doesn’t come down. It’s simple arithmatic. So, you tell me, who should get paid less in order to make the cost less?
We can start with agency commissions, but if you don’t like that, what do you suggest? How about healthcare and pharmaceutical company executive compensation?
Please don’t start in on the “eliminate waste, fraud and abuse” garbage. Even taken at its worst case estimates, if you eliminated it all it wouldn’t put a dent in the cost of healthcare. Plenty of states have enacted tough tort reform measures and it hasn’t reduced healthcare costs in those states.
The problem with our health care system is two-fold. (1) too many uninsured seek medical care driving up teh cost because they can’t pay, forcing hospitals and doctors to charge more to those that have insurance and can pay (2) Too many hands in the cookie jar, everyone making a profit.
The solution is to eliminate some of the profit takers or reduce their profits and get everyone insured.
Get your head out of Obama’s butt, will you TOPoV?!?? REALLY?!!?!? How brainwashed can you be??
Hearing the Aetna CEO tapdance around the true issue of this “mandate” is what causes so many customers and agents to be distrustful of Insurance Carriers (oops, I mean Health care Solutions Providers). The way the Healthcare system operates under the guise of insurance or health solutions is just a ponzi scheme. Most real agents (excluding con-artists and crooks) won’t have anything to do with healthcare. The real issue is: Can the Federal Government force an individual to purchase something they do not want. There is protection, or there is supposed to be individual protection from the “government” taking from citizens. Imminent domaine is the way it should be done, not reaching into my personal finances and ripping it out of my wallet.
The typical agent makes 5% or LESS on a policy that is written. 5% … If we cut that in half 2.5%. OH now we are making headway. Besides … why not just cut the agent out all together … O now you pay 5% less and now you don’t have any of the service when it comes to doing many things that most people can’t seem to do. SUCH AS FIND A DOCTOR IN NETWORK .. WORK OUT PROBLEMS WHEN THEY GET UNECISSARY BILLS and much much more. THUMBS DOWN TO YOU TALKING ABOUT AGENTS COMMISIONS … THUMBS UP to those talking about Imminent domain !!!!!
TOPOV, obviously you are not from Texas which did Tort Reform a few years ago. It has made a difference in Medical Malpractice premiums for doctors and hospitals. Are there crooks still out there billing double and triple for things? Are they still ripping off Medicare for $100 Billion? Yes, because they can and get away with it. Are there any politicians out there jumping up and down about fraud and abuse? No, because they are in the hip pocket of the special interests and have no interest in upsetting the gravy train. Companies are better at catching fraud than the government is and they have networks which only pay a certain amount for procedures, tests etc. $100 Billion may not sound like a lot to you for fraud and waste, but it does to me and a lot of other people. That is why a government program is not in the best interests of the folks and will never work efficiently or reduce the cost of healthcare. The foxes are guarding the hen house, understand now?
TOPOV: Gravy train? Really? What you’re going to see now are brokerage fees rather than simply commissions. Do you honestly think agents will work for free? Do you honestly think that companies will provide the services agents do for free? When work is to be done, it must be paid for. It’ll be a commission, a brokerage fee, an application fee, or something else entirely.
The people riding the ‘gravy train’ are those who want something at a price lower than its actual cost of delivery.
The medical loss ratio portion of the law actually encourages insurance companies to find ways to raise expenses, not lower them! If their profit is only going to go up when expenses go up, it is in their best interest to pay more for each procedure, not less.
Lovely idea this law.
Just lovely.
-Bartleby
Love how whiners complain bitterly about health reform as if everything was rosy, or even merely getting better, prior to it. Uhhhm, no – no, it wasn’t.
At the same time, I’m with brokers complaining about being low man on the MLR totem pole.
Bertolini’s comp is the comp that should be cut. Health insurers’ role should be to insure, AND ONLY INSURE, rather than manage care. The ‘services’ that make up contemporary health insurance products can and should be “componentized”, and put together for groups and individuals via expert brokers, much like Dell builds computers.
Some people will still prefer one firm building their product end-to-end, a la Apple, and are willing to pay a premium for the difference in quality they perceive (I personally feel they’re nuts – as I do Apple zealots ;)).
Many would find they’d enjoy a better (more responsive) product, at a more affordable if not attractive price, with a revamped conception and execution of the product itself.
Imagine, an insurance executive who wants the govt to mandate that people buy his product.
And as if we needed clarification, he apparently wants the penalty for not doing so raised.
Lots of complaints here about how the insurance industry and agents therein & the mandate are all problems.
As an insurance fraud investigator, do you mind if I weigh in here?
The AHCA – did little to address the actual cost of health care. Sure there are some things in there that are good: increasing clinics for the poor to go to, electronic records to make the industry more efficient, tuition assistance for students wanting to become health care providers, and a reporting board for doctors to submit their treatment plans and results so best practices can be identified and shared with others that will help reduce costs, to name a few.
Being on the insurance side of things — and I’m NOT in health care, but auto, yet have interactions with those purely in the public and private sector — there is much the industry could do. On the private side, to start with, we need the Stark Amendment to be applicable.
The investment opportunities the providers have opted into over the years creates a conflict of interest involving MRI, surgery centers, DME, and many others that are problematic. A current investigation involving neurosurgeons is thus far indicating millions of dollars in unnecessary surgeries.
We need stronger state boards to actually discipline providers when they cross the line, rather than give them a rap on the knuckle and allow them to do an Alfred Plea. We are also facing issues involving ownership and tele-medicine. For example a radiologist living in one state while reading x-rays taken in another state – or for that matter somewhere else in the world.
If you want malpractice insurance costs and claims to be reduced (a VERY SMALL percentage of the cost of health care), then the bad doctors need to be eliminated from practicing or some serious steps taken before then can be allowed to practice again. But State AG’s are leery about taking away a person’s livelihood, and fraud isn’t high on their list, nor is killing a patient. Rape will get you there. And the providers know it.
The health care system is broken and it is beyond complicated to try and sort out. It begins with the high cost of educating our providers and goes on from there. We have more specialists than we have general practitioners, also increasing our costs.
But until the people, both the health care industry and the insurance industry, along with our politicians, understand the full extent of the problems and AGREE on how to fix it were just going to keep up this p*ssing match and nothing is going to get fixed and all those people who are the gravy train (and there are plenty from fraudsters to CEOs) are going to keep moving down the track while we policyholders and taxpayers pay the bills.