When will you realize that Republicans were shut out of the process when this Obamanation was written? Need I repeat that Democrats controlled both houses and the Presidency? Even with those overwhelming majorities, they had a very difficult time getting it passed when a lot of Blue Dog Democrats had well founded reservations and knew they would be vulnerable in the mid terms as was proven out in 2010. The Democrats rejected every Republican idea that was presented.
This old “republicans don’t come up with dem dere idears!” Is getting old.
Your party has had no ideas to medicare and social security other than tax rates and spending over the last 60 years.
Ours came up with the ROTH IRA, sought to expand that for low income earners to not only make the income invested income tax free at investment, but also not taxed at withdrawal (right now, if you use a 401k it is taxed as ordinary income at withdrawal) AND the investments provided tax credits. All of those were from republicans, and all of them sought to reward savers, give incentives to savers, and well, it vastly expanded the amount that people invest and have in their investment portfolios. How’s that social security reliance working out for retirees now? It looks pretty dim in the future.
You guys can keep rejecting plans like this, (like happened in Bush W’s presidency when he tried to implement the plan I said above. Democrats said it would hurt revenues too much. Not taxing the poor, would hurt revenues too much. Read that over.).
Medicare advantage, and vouchers, republican.
Whereas your party is the party of “NO” new ideas whatsoever in those areas, and those are our primary two areas that need work.
Forget also that Reagan passed the law requiring hospitals to provide care. No new or good ideas from republicans right? You clowns on the left actually try to blame that for high insurance costs (I’ve already shown it is a maximum of $8 billion per year that hospitals don’t collect).
But right right, republicans never have “new” ideas.
Right. Gotcha.
The CBO rated plans, those just don’t exist. SHHHH!!! Writing insurance across state lines SHHH!!!!!
Insurance exchanges, which Obama actually did take from them SHHH!!!!
Just SHHHHH insurance, block it all out! Yee haw go for dem dere democrats!
Don’t let the facts hit your rear end on the way out.
This is some of the ideas they proposed. This is not the actual CBO rated plan.
All zero of dem der hick plans right? The party of red necks and no and no ideas I imagine right?
That $5,000 debit card to buy insurance for the poorest Americans would have just sucked.
GGGOOSSSHHH!
November 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm
Celtica says:
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Bob: “401k investments are for the poor. Your history wasn’t needed. ”
Bob, Bob, Bob, the poor do not have money to invest. That is part of what makes them poor. As for discounting the history of the evolution of the 401k from a neutral source, go ahead and discount it. But it doesn’t change how the 401k evolved from a deferred income vehicle for the upper income to a vehicle available to all.
Really, it doesn’t.
November 8, 2013 at 5:48 pm
Agent says:
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Hey Bob, The Democrats have the best mascot between the two parties. Jackass! It fits them to a tee. The Republican Elephant never forgets being wronged and does useful work.
November 8, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Celtica says:
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Bob sez: 401k investments are for the poor.
Celtica sez: Can anyone imagine, for even a flash of a moment, that taxpayers would even stand for the poor investing any funds while collecting food stamps, welfare and ACA benefits
Bob, the reason why the 401k was created had NOTHING to do with rewarding savers. It was used an a tax shield vehicle for very high earners (captains on industry level). It was only when the IRS insisted it be made available to all did companies open it up to mere worker bee employees. Especially when the corporations raided the pension funds and “converted” it to assets that then paid executive bonuses.
Conspiracy theory much? Are you quite aware that there are limits to 401k contributions, and cut offs on income?
Roth IRA’s have much more strict cut offs. Republicans made the Roth IRA. And they made it fair. The cut offs for the newer totally tax free vehicles was around $80,000.
So much for the “super wealthy”
On that one.
Idiot.
November 7, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Celtica says:
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Dear Bob:
Don’t let the facts get in your way of a good GOP fish story. The GOP has never been a friend to the average worker, only the highly paid ones.
In the 1950s, a number of companies, particularly
banks, added to their profit-sharing plans a new feature
that came to be called a “cash or deferred arrangement,” or
CODA. …
In 1956, the IRS issued the first in a series of rulings
allowing profit-sharing plans to include a CODA and still be
eligible for the favorable tax treatment accorded employer
contributions. …
These early IRS rulings required numerical
testing of the contributions of highly and non-highly paid
employees—the precursors of the nondiscrimination tests
imposed on 401(k) plans today.
November 7, 2013 at 12:59 pm
bob says:
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Celitica,
And I really have to hammer this home:
So you don’t want the investment type of plan I mentioned, and don’t think it will help the poor, because you believe it might help the rich?
Do you see the problem there Celitica?
You’re screwing the poor because you want to make sure the rich cannot invest.
That doesn’t make sense. At all.
It would help the poor. We should have done it. End of story.
It is the only plan that didn’t involve social security spending, cutting, or tax raising.
There have been no system changes or changes made by democrats to actually help people retire. None.
November 7, 2013 at 1:06 pm
bob says:
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Celitica,
Are you really trying to make the argument that 401k’s are bad?
Some people manipulate every type of system. So we should just take it away right?
I know how 401k plans work. I know how for example, someone like Romney can make shares of his company the method of investment, and get for example $16,500 of his company in shares is his $16,500 investment, and then when those shares explode, he gets tax free huge incomes.
I’m also aware that Romney is the 1%. Only the wealthiest 1% of the 1% take such measures to work the system. The 99% however, benefit from 401k’s, Roth IRA’s, and would have benefited from the plan to make a 401k plan that isn’t taxed as income when invested, receives a tax credit for the low income earners, and isn’t taxed at withdrawal for people making $80k or under.
You keep saying these statements that make it clear you are just hell bent on voting democrat, or believing republicans don’t do anything good.
You’re wrong.
November 7, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Celtica says:
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Bobby,
No conspiracy theory. Pensions were reaided.
And you are going oveboard (again) by going on and on and on thinking I do hate 40lks. I do not.
I just know its history and why it got to where it was (from deferring income for a select group of well paid executives) to now being the main retirement investment vehicle (after the executives raided the pensions).
Stop going overboard and stay focused on a statement rather than throwing the baby out with bathwater.
November 8, 2013 at 11:58 am
bob says:
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Celitica,
401k investments are for the poor.
Your history wasn’t needed.
You’re trying not to give credit to the republicans for what the did to help the middle class.
Repeat after me: Republicans made every tax incentive for retirement, and tax vehicle, outside of Social Security. And they have tried to make more.
So rather than you’re tar you throw out, Republicans are better for the middle class ;)
Now I’m done with your whining, go back to bed, child.
November 7, 2013 at 8:46 am
jw says:
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I’m curious. When were the alternatives presented? What happened to the votes?
jw, surely your memory is better than this. I assume you thought there was votes for Healthcare Reform other than what we ended up with. Do you not remember the Blair House meeting early in the President’s first term? Cantor presented Republican ideas to Obama and Obama just stared at him, thanked him and then said thanks, but no thanks. Get on the back of the bus. There was never any votes on the Republican plan with Pelosi in charge of the House and Reid in the Senate. The only vote was their vote and they had plenty of trouble getting it passed, hence the corruption of several senators and blatant intimidation of the moderate Democrats. All the while, Obama was accusing Republicans of standing in the way of Healthcare Reform. Tell me, if Democrats had overwhelming control of both houses, why did they need Republicans to help pass it? Eventually, it was passed with 0 votes from Republicans in the House and Senate.
November 8, 2013 at 8:42 pm
jw says:
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Um, Agent, you do remember me saying I don’t keep up with the news? I didn’t know anything about the repub plan or the ACA. I do my best not to know.
I’m in P&C, and as long as the powers that be leave me to P&C, I’m not going to worry about learning health.
I’ve been out of healthcare since 2003. Long before the whole PPACA crap was imagined. While I was in healthcare, I worried about insurance payments and billing and all the things that were coming out of DC and Frankfort. Now, I don’t have to and I don’t want to.
November 7, 2013 at 12:13 pm
jw says:
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Just in case someone thinks otherwise, my previous comment isn’t sarcasm. I actually want to know. I’ve asked before, but not gotten the answer to these two questions. Please, just the basic info, no name calling necessary.
I don’t think you were sarcastic. You’re not like others on this site.
What happened, is democrats blocked them.
Obama said the famous line “you sit in the back” and we are in “drive not reverse” (play on D versus R) and he as well as media blocked all talk on it from becoming public.
Really JW, would you not have supported these additions?
Note the debit card, and $5,700 worth of subsidies.)
Also would you really have hated writing insurance across state lines? Republicans pushed for that as well.
They did push for the exchanges, which Obama took.
But the rest, it’s just balderdash to me as to why people are allowing this type of power to exist on the left. The country is completely blindsided to republican ideals, and it has nothing to do with republicans.
Those are good ideas.
Doesn’t it scare you that the republicans are being blocked that well, that you don’t know about it?
It’s the main reason I’m not a democrat.
Clearly, I have made mention of some of my more democrat style beliefs. For example I do not care about embryonic stem cell research. The law that Obama passed I was ok with.
HPV vaccines, when the Texas Governor tried to block it, I got pissed. I have a daughter after all and HPV causes cervical cancer.
I actually support a public type “option”. I was actually surprised when I found this, as I find it better than a public option. $5,000 to buy private insurance may be expensive, but it would cover everyone and would give them good insurance! This is by the way, one of the reasons I love Paul Ryan.
Note that this was one of HIS MANY ideas!
Look him up a bit. The guy is what we need.
November 7, 2013 at 12:42 pm
jw says:
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I read the article, and I agree with you, the alternative presented was actually well thought out and might have worked. (please remember, I am not an ACA fan – you haven’t lured me from the dark side)
Okay, the article from May 2009 states those senators were introducing the Patients’ Choice Act that day. What happened? Do you have any articles about that?
November 7, 2013 at 1:30 pm
bob says:
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I do, and I have more history if you’re interested on it.
This starts back in 1995, when republican congress began to try to make changes to healthcare/medicare. Clinton started to veto all plans to change medicare.
For this bill, it “died” on arrival. Democrats wouldn’t bring it up for vote.
Do you not find it odd that Bush W managed to pass bills expanding insurance for children, and expanding prescriptions, had the precursors of the Patients Choice Act put up for vote, tried to pass housing regulations in 2003, and again in 2005/2006,
And that he was labeled as a do nothing president for de regulation who didn’t try to modify the healthcare system?
You should know better than anyone, a majority doesn’t mean you can pass what you want unless you have a super majority.
Democrats got entirely in the way of change post Clinton.
November 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm
jw says:
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Interesting. And sad. Many things would be differnt now. I can’t say for certain they would be great, but different would probably be better.
I’m not a die hard democrat; I would vote for a martian if I thought they’d do a good job. Of course, my emotions do rule what I think is a good job. Not going to aplogize, either. I generally approach the voting as a “lessor of two evils” so, I’m not real thrilled with any of my choices. I hope someone can run and make me like voting for them. Then again, I can hope in one hand and all that. ;D
November 7, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Celtica says:
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Bob I love Paul Ryan. Note that this was one of HIS MANY ideas
Ummm, how do we know they are really “his” ideas????
November 8, 2013 at 12:02 pm
bob says:
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Celitica,
I don’t have to nor do I want to educate you. You’re not worth my time.
How do “we” know? “YOU” don’t, and the primary reason is that you are hell bent on hating republicans.
I don’t work with that type of hate. You surpass even Libby. I wasted my time on her on this blog again, and I’m not repeating that mistake with you.
You should look up your politicians, rather than complain about the republicans as if they don’t want healthcare changes (I’ve proven that wrong with the patients choice act, and the 2009 CBO rated plan for healthcare) or that they are the party of “no” (I’ve proven that democrats refuse to make alternatives to social security, and you say those “alternatives” weren’t meant for the poor, so we can’t count them right?) or some other trash, about them being against gays (we passed a gay marriage law here, that the republicans only tried to add two amendments, one to protect religions, and one to require the government to get a vote from the people on it, doesn’t sound corrupt to me) or some other trash about some other “republican”-aphobic crap.
I don’t deal with your kind. I usually just tell them to shut the hell up, grow up, and do research.
So bug off.
November 7, 2013 at 3:27 pm
FFA says:
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when a snowball has a chance in hell – maybe after the mid terms next year.
FFA, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Democrats are losing credibility and the 16 Senators visiting at the White House a couple of days ago indicate to me they are about to bail on Obama. They clearly don’t want to fall on their sword for this President and privately probably think he is an imbecile for this travesty and his lack of governing skills. How would you like to be one of these liberal Democratic Senators facing constituents next fall when the folks are losing their coverage and they know you voted for it? I think the rails, tar & feathers will be out along with pitchforks.
The law does not require the business owners to take contraceptives regardless of their religious beliefs. It only requires that contraceptives be available to employees whose religious beliefs allow it.
It means anyone can go to the drugstore and their insurance carrier will pay for them through their policy for which they pay premium. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.
There’s a reason that health insurance doesn’t cover advil or low cost prescriptions. That’s because it adds costs for such drugs.
This law was to avoid the fact that the government is not supposed to be funding these types of things publicly, so they put something in place to make a pill that costs $15 go up to $50 plus, and pass it on to every other person.
That isn’t a hard concept to grasp. Yet you don’t. This is something that should never have been done, regardless if the pathetic beliefs regarding forcing businesses to be absent of religion in their practice of business.
What do you mean “There’s a reason that health insurance doesn’t cover … low cost prescriptions.” Doesn’t it already cover all prescriptions? I had an HMO for the longest time, and EVERYTHING was covered by the prescription plan with various copays.
The advil isn’t covered because it’s not a prescription. It can’t even be covered by an HSA.
November 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm
bob says:
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JW:
I mixed two ideas in one sentence.
It doesn’t cover Advil, or low cost drugs, and birth control prescriptions are essentially the same.
It’s about to grow up and start having these debates on economic soundness, government logics, and what’s best.
Not to try to make a moral or ideological argument about the hardships of women over a $15 dollar pill.
It doesn’t make your gender that partakes in this fight look very good at all, and in fact, inspires sexism. Quit the whining, pay for the pill, stop trying to force everyone else to cover it while crying that “the big bad business is getting in the way of your life”. No. They aren’t. The drugs are available. The big bad business is tired of people making ideological arguments to pay for absurd household items.
I would consider birth control like paying for a house plant. It is stupid.
November 4, 2013 at 2:19 pm
Kate C says:
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Do these employers only hire people with similar religous beliefs? If an employee has a different religous belief than you, is it not infringing on their religous freedom to not cover birth control? It just seems like there are a lot of different ways to look at this arguement when the bottom line should be that you don’t have the right to pick for others or restrict their healthcare because of you’re beliefs. Their beliefs may be different, but you should respect that.
Scott R. I agree. We should stop calling it ACA or affordable care act. DemocratCare sounds good. Or DemoCare, DemoCrap or BO Care works too. It stinks!
How about Obamacaid since most of the state exchanges are sending the applicants to Medicaid instead of the vaunted ACA? Another good one might be Unaffordable Care Act since it is unaffordable for most middle class Americans.
Or how about RomneyCare? After all, he already had this plan in place before it was “ObamaCare”. Or, better yet, how about ConservativeCare? After all, this plan was designed by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative organization. DemocratCare would have been universal healthcare. The repubs blocked those efforts, so we got ConservativeCare instead.
Shirley, if it were Romney Care it (the web site) would actually be working like it is in Romney land…. He would have out sourced the web builders to a foreign country that was capable probably not based on Crony-ism. Given the fact he is not from IL, I could only assume he would have only told half lies..
Let me get this straight. Two male catholics are suing because they don’t want their wives to have access to contraceptives? What am I missing on the absurdity of this lawsuit?
Hey Caldude, It might surprise you to know that a lot of people in this country doesn’t like being dictated to about their Healthcare coverage. Does it make any sense to offer maternity benefits to young healthy males or to people past child bearing years? The one size fits all package is obviously not working out so well. I hope you have to buy the Bronze plan with a 10,000 deductible in order to find a premium you can afford.
C’mon man, people have had their lives directed by healthcare for years. Have we forgotten the basis of insurance whereby risk is spread amongst a group? Clients who never get sued have liability insurance; no fire, but fire insurance; and the list goes on and on.
I have relatives that have never purchased any health insurance in their lives, but have had heart surgery and a myriad of other ailments treated. They don’t buy it for the same reason you have stated, “…you can’t tell me what to do.” Ridiculous 4th grade attitude.
If there wives want contraception, they can buy it at Walgreen’s for less than $15 per month. They are suing because the Obama Administration is forcing its social engineering agenda down the throats of those who believe in the reality of natural law. Pregnancy is not identified as a disease in any US practitioner’s manual. Therefore, artificial birth control and abortifacients are not preventive healthcare. Instead, the use of these artificial steroids, that cause the death of countless unborn innocent children and over 2,000 US women each year due to breast cancer and stroke, is a life style choice. The logical result of a man and woman having intercourse during her gestation period is pregnancy. If pregnancy does not occur after many attempts, an adverse medical condition in either the male or female may exist. Health insurance polices pay for the cost of discovering and treating this disorder.
Spoken like a true MAN. Birth control does not cause the death of countless unborn innocent children. It PREVENTS them from forming in the first place. Until then it’s just an egg. Maybe some biology lessons are in order for you.
His points on deaths of US women from using birth control is a pretty valid one.
But you prefer death over life eh?
Also: This doesn’t just fund birth control, and he never stated that he was talking about birth control, so perhaps he is not in need of education, but you are in need of not assuming, not applying labels, and paying attention eh?
Emergency contraception is a part of this mandate. Do you know what that means Libby?
While I’m sure you are ok with such measures, the child is forming in the case of emergency contraception. So let’s at least be honest about the debate, rather than labeling the other side, and making crap up in order to make the other side look like a fool.
Since I’m pro-choice, you’re right, I don’t have a problem with emergency contraception. When men get pregnant, they can make the decisions about their bodies. It’s one of those emotional decisions that you won’t be able to change my mind.
I’m pro death penalty, too, just in case you’re curious.
November 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm
Libby says:
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Bob – I’m assuming you’re talking about the morning after pill. There is no way of knowing the morning after having sex whether you have fertilized an egg or not.
And I stand by my statement that Mike K needs biology lessons because he says: “…artificial birth control and abortifacients are not preventive healthcare.” So he WAS talking about birth control other than the “pull out” or “rhythm method.” Keep your rants to yourself. You have no right to comment on this issue if you are not a woman. Period.
November 6, 2013 at 4:57 pm
bob says:
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First of all:
Us men are involved in the impregnating. Quit trying to dominate reproduction. It’s not yours to dominate.
Second of all:
#@%@ you. Whether or not you’re a woman is @%@$%ing irrelevant to whether or not you’re wrong about a child being at the point of development, you trash. Why am I mad by the by? You just honestly used the “You don’t know this topic because you’re a man” and it is sexist as all hell, WOMAN (see the point? It’s condescending and sexist)). Don’t try to use that to block out common sense, logics, or science. We aren’t a lot different in some ways. You hate republicans who use religion to block things out. I figure those people are sheep, I give them ignorance as a shield. You actually used blind emotions, despite intellect to think otherwise, to pull some crap out of your rear end in response to a guy who had a good point, all for an idelogocal ticker in your head (akin to religious zealots, but again, you aren’t a zealot and therefore are held to a higher standard. They do it they are stupid. You do it, and you’re just freaking a “hater” by a youngin’s terms and are pathetic.)
You weren’t a part of men’s hardships with the draft. Were you ok authorizing that one?
Don’t feed me bull crap lines Libby.
Also: His wording was bad, his message was clear, and “abortifacients” was in that phrase you used. He considers morning after pill to be an “abortifacients”. Yes, you can’t tell if the person is pregnant. You also can’t NOT tell, which you would be doing by default by assuming that in all cases that the baby would not be killed. Whereas, he simply said that some babies are killed.
You made the argument that no children are even developing scientifically. And I told you, you may believe what you believe, about whether it’s ok at that point to abort life, but you cannot make up crap about whether or not the child is forming. You were wrong. End of story. And
My “rants” are always beyond the thought process you are capable of. So please, don’t go with the “another of your rants!”. You can’t even tie your shoes without tripping over an ideological ideal.
You say Libby’s wrong. I say you’re wrong. You are entitled to your opinion, that’s as far as I’m willing to concede.
November 7, 2013 at 12:15 pm
jw says:
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The opinion in question is when life begins, btw.
November 7, 2013 at 12:33 pm
bob says:
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JW:
Did you note at all, in my post, where I said that she is perfectly entitled to believe that at that point abortion is ok, but that she cannot state that the child is not developing.
That is scientifically inaccurate.
My post wasn’t about the morality, of which, I do not care to debate.
So what am I wrong on JW?
Don’t let your emotions get the better of your arguments.
November 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm
jw says:
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bob, I really was referring to the “a child being at the point of development” opinion. Since a fertilized egg cannot continue life outside of the uterus, it’s not a child. It’s an organism. Straight up biology. Until that conglomeration of cells can exist without the uterus, it’s not a child.
November 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm
jw says:
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Strictly speaking, the organism in question is a parasite. Frequently causing violent illness in the woman’s body.
November 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm
bob says:
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JW:
As soon as it begins developing, it is a developing human being.
I realize that you have convinced yourself on the other science that because it cannot survive on it’s own that it is an organism. That ignores common sense. It is human sperm. Human egg. They combined. It is developing.
Regardless, these minor points that you only think about to justify your mentality of disregarding the life by any means possible, are counter productive.
The point still stands: She said that the development had not started. She definitely was implying that the egg and sperm had not even combined.
Of which, she was wrong.
November 7, 2013 at 1:21 pm
jw says:
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bob, “The point still stands: She said that the development had not started. She definitely was implying that the egg and sperm had not even combined.”
Birth control pills are supposed to keep the egg from being fertilized. The morning after pill will force the body to expell the egg, whether it has been fertilized or not. That’s what she said. Which is actually correct. You don’t know. You don’t need to know. The pill will work either way.
Having been pregnant twice, I’ll stick to my opinion on this topic, thank you.
November 7, 2013 at 2:04 pm
bob says:
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JW:
I do know. I do have reason to know. I actually care about the child over my body, because I’m removed from the equation.
What I don’t know, and can’t talk about is your body.
What I do know, and can talk about, but you can’t talk about due to your bias, is the child/development. You are in no position, now is any female, to talk about the development of the child due to your bias based on your body. And it is a selfish bias. The most selfish on this planet. If it is your goal to state that the pressures of raising a child are the real pressure, then you mean men CAN comment because we have those same pressures. No matter which course you take, you cannot try to shut up men on the topic.
Moving on: Once it is a “fertilized” egg, it is a developing child. Whether or not you want to try to make up some BS story as to it not being the case.
“It PREVENTS them from forming in the first place.”
Abstinence or birth control before the fertilization does that.
Preventing the forming is terminating the life. Whether you want to call that murder, is simply because you don’t value life.
November 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm
jw says:
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bob, my “you don’t know” was actually referring to you don’t know if the egg has been fertilized. It has (had?) nothing to do with what YOU know. Sorry. Didn’t mean to confuse an already confusing topic.
By the way, I never claimed to be anything other than selfish. I am biased, you are correct. I admit my failings. I am the product of all my experiences, both good and bad. In some respects I carry the experiences of my parents and children, as well.
I am comfortable with my beliefs. Just as you are comfortable with yours. It’s ok. You will not change my mind any more than I will change yours. Accept it and drive on.
November 7, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Libby says:
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Bob: How is “Preventing the forming is terminating the life.”? There is no life to terminate if you have prevented the fertilizing of an egg and, as you say, “development of a child.”
If you want to say an embryo and/or fetus are a developing child, OK. I still say I have the right to decide whether I want to continue to have it in my womb or not. After all, it’s my womb.
Sorry you don’t like that answer, but it’s the truth.
November 5, 2013 at 2:00 pm
Baxtor says:
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It’s funny on how birth control is such a big deal to be included. I’m so sick of this ObamaCare or ACA. The ACA deciding on what we need when we didn’t even get to VOTE on it. This is bull crap. And before anyone can say anything about me having insurance through my employer and the ACA doesn’t apply to me. Well it does because my blood work that was covered during my preventative exam is no longer covered. It says right on my EOB, “Due to the Afforable Care Act this is no longer covered under preventative.” And here I’m trying to have them check my blood and it’s being denied and the ACA is more concerned with Birth Control.
MK: Female biology is not your strong suit. If a man and woman have intercourse during her gestation period, a pregnancy cannot result for the simple fact she is already pregnant, being in her gestation period and all.
Well, if those two male Catholics are say 50 years old and beyond child bearing years, why should they have to pay for contraceptive coverage, maternity care, pediatrics, Viagra or birth control pills? That’s why they bought healthcare plans that did not cover it and were less in premium. You know, those plans that Obama calls “substandard”.
The could just call it “The Unaffordable healthcare act”
Hey Sargeant, I wonder how this country ever survived for 200 years without mandating birth control be provided by employers. When you and I had young families, we took responsibility seriously and did the control thing privately. Now, the libs want the employer to pay and the additional cost built into the Group Plan. Just wait until the mandates hit the Group Plans next year and premiums will be out of reach for many employers so they will just drop their plans or cut back on employees or reduce hours. What have the Libs gained except to ruin the Healthcare for America?
Yes, I am sure including birth control will just send premiums soaring. Are you the ones always saying it shouldn’t be covered because it is so cheap to buy? Make up your minds.
Not to mention that most plans include birth control now anyway. And have for years.
It has Libs, I have the customes calling who have had their policies canceled because they do not meet the ACA requirements and their premium increased by 56% per BC/BS because they now have more coveage per BC/BS themselves. This is for a family of 4 and the mother has had her tubes tied. She needs maternity coveage as much as a fish needs a bicycle. I’m not talking about bc pills.
My (not birth control) prescription is less than $15 per month and is covered by my insurance and I pay $3 per month as my copay. I only know this because my pharmacy notes on my receipt how much my insurer paid. I doubt I’m the only person in the US who has an inexpensive prescription covered by insurance. Why is this a problem?
November 6, 2013 at 5:02 pm
bob says:
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Do the math, and I know that you are the only person with something so inexpensive AND simultaneously constantly used prescription for the entire gender. There is no equivalent in insurance, because that isn’t what it’s for.
It is a problem because now everyone else would pay double the cost of the birth control, for you to pay less than $12 dollars a month. Go. BUY. IT. YOURSELF.
If we put everything on an insurance plan that was doubled in cost by being on it, catastrophic care would be hindered. Insurance premiums should be increasing to pay for heart surgeries. Not birth control. Even $10 on my policy per month is too much to be putting on it to cover birth control, but it is more likely, and you know this because you’re in insurance, closer to $40.
That is absolutely unacceptable.
November 7, 2013 at 8:52 am
jw says:
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My point was that many other under $15 prescriptions are covered by insurance. I checked, I actually have two. I don’t need birth control, so that’s not one of them.
Why is birth control such a problem for you?
Finally, since many plans already cover birth control, why is it such a big deal?
November 7, 2013 at 12:37 pm
bob says:
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Why is it such a problem for you to take out your purse and pay $12 dollars?
Having the government get involved and raise the cost because you want to make a moral argument out of $12 dollars is exactly why I don’t respect you.
This is $12. Stop fighting over it. Stop trying to get someone else to pay for it.
You sound like a kid who just moved out and realizes she has to pay for shampoo. Are you going to call your mommy up for that one too?
It is inefficient to have the government get involved. I am about efficiency. Also, if someone is going to make it about the hardships of women, I have ZERO respect.
The hardships of paying for birth control, woe is me!
November 7, 2013 at 12:54 pm
jw says:
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bob, you’re avoiding the question of other drugs that cost less than $15. Are you suggesting that ALL drugs under $20 or $15 should not be covered by insurance? I really am serious. Why treat one prescription differently?
To be honest, I don’t care. 1. You can get birth control free at the health department. 2. I don’t need it. I’m not advocating either method of purchase; I just want to know WHY birth control should be treated differently than my generic meds that cost less than $10 a month.
November 7, 2013 at 1:13 pm
bob says:
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JW:
Which meds are you on consistently that cost less than $10 per month were you to buy them on your own?
I bluntly don’t believe you.
November 7, 2013 at 1:16 pm
bob says:
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JW:
To answer your question, because I don’t believe low cost prescriptions are on plans that compare to birth control, I don’t believe ANY of those should be on insurance.
And if they are, I’m ticked.
You assumed I’m ok with other prescriptions being covered.
I’m not.
Also, if you’re talking about you purchasing a prescription plan separate from insurance (which I believe you are) please note: Not the same.
November 7, 2013 at 1:32 pm
jw says:
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My health insurance includes prescriptions. I don’t have a separate vision or Rx. I do have a separate dental plan. All three children needed braces, so that was a necessity. Back to the prescriptions: I take a generic migraine medicine (to prevent migraines-so I take it every day) and a generic hormone stabilizer (trust me, it’s not pretty if I don’t have these every day). I have my EOB from Express Scripts in my hand. Oh, my copay has gone up. I’m now paying $5 per generic prescription. One of my drugs was only $4 and the other is $6. I paid $9 and the insurance paid $1. Yay me.
Yes, I keep my EOBs at work because I submit my copays to my HSA for reimbursement. Since Humana is kind enough to allow us to submit our HSA forms to an 800 number fax, I do that during my free time before work starts.
November 7, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Libby says:
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Wow, Bob. You out-and-out called jw a liar. You don’t know anything about her meds or her medical plan.
Many people have prescriptions that do not cost alot of money. That’s why there was a DEDUCTIBLE on most rx plan.
And how do you know how much birth control pills cost? Have you purchased any? $12? $20? $50? At what point does Bob’s Insurance Company allow you to claim them under your health insurance? For many people $12 is the difference between being able to feed their kids for a few days. How dare you make these assumptions about other people’s financial situation.
You are the one that needs to grow up. You are self-centered and egotistical. Just like a 3 year old.
November 7, 2013 at 2:10 pm
bob says:
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Libby,
I took out the swear bleeps on that one. I out and said I didn’t believe her. Then I asked which drugs she was referring to.
Would I ask a liar a question? No.
Calling me a 3 year old is rich. I just don’t put up with crap.
Moving on, putting those other drugs on health insurance also raises the cost. I don’t think it should be done. That won’t change.
Moving on again:
That’s rich, how do I know how much they cost?
A quick google is a good way to find out.
BUT
Are you such a piece of trash, that you, knowing how much it costs, will say simply that I “don’t know” (even when I’m right) and then ask that question as a means of saying how do you know it’s actually $15 dollars?
I remember a lot of old girlfriends doing that when they would ask how I knew they had cheated. It was their way of finding out if they could discredit the source of how I figured it out or manipulate me.
What you just did is no different. You know the cost. Don’t try to act like I’m wrong on the fact that I’m saying what it costs, just because I’m not a woman.
That’s sexist.
November 7, 2013 at 2:13 pm
bob says:
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JW:
Back to you:
My plan does not do that, nor do most plans.
But adding that many low cost prescriptions…Gives me a headache. The insurance company being involved in the payment and processing and tracking, are huge costs. It at least doubles the cost, even breaking even and the insurance company making no money (maintaining the staff).
Insurance should be left to high cost meds, high cost care, catastrophic care. For every $10 dollars of low cost prescription drugs you pull from an insurance policy, you may a well pull $20 dollars from catastrophic care.
That’s why I care.
November 7, 2013 at 2:32 pm
jw says:
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Ok. Now, you have answered my question. You make an interesting point. I’m guessing that is one of the reasons my insurance company keeps asking me to switch to a mail order 3 month supply of my regular medicines.
I really didn’t know that other plans don’t cover all scripts. I’ve had HMOs other than the self funded plans through the hospitals where I worked. I’ve been on my current HMO for, wow, uh, over 10 years.
November 7, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Libby says:
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Bob – nice talk pal. I’m beginning to understand the real reason behind your hatred for women. Been cheated on, huh? I can see why.
Now, moving on.
1) “I out and said I didn’t believe her.” Uh, hello. That’s calling her a liar.
2) “putting those other drugs on health insurance also raises the cost. I don’t think it should be done. That won’t change.” At what point do we cover rx drugs? Not at all? Please answer the question.
3) “Are you such a piece of trash, that you, knowing how much it costs, will say simply that I “don’t know” (even when I’m right) and then ask that question as a means of saying how do you know it’s actually $15 dollars?” No, I am not a piece of trash. I’m 55 years old and it’s been a long, long time since I’ve needed birth control. BUT, I know 20 years ago I paid $20 a month, so I doubt they are $12 today. And, FYI, I have done a google search and have seen anywhere from Free to $100 per month.
So now you can shut it and go away.
November 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Libby says:
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jw – Don’t automatically think that just because Bob says it it is true. Most medical plans DO provide rx coverage and usually do so with a deductible. That is how they control not paying for low cost prescriptions. This is all done at the pharmacy level and they never even get to the insurance carrier for processing. So Bob’s theory of doubling the cost and the carrier losing money is hooey.
Bob – Just because you can afford and want a major medical/catastrophe type policy doesn’t mean everyone else should have the same thing. If I have to pay more for a more extensive plan, then so be it. Again, there’s your arrogance showing again.
November 7, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Libby says:
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Oh, and Bob, “fuck you” doesn’t faze me a bit. I think it’s hilarious I can get you so riled up. You’re almost TOO easy.
November 7, 2013 at 3:57 pm
FFA says:
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jw says – “My (not birth control) prescription is less than $15 per month and is covered by my insurance and I pay $3 per month as my copay”
Jw, you chose that option. you are paying for it. My HSA guy being dropped with premiums 2x through ACA does not have the option of excluding maternity.. I am past my baby making days and I have to pay for maternity. I don’t need BC any more, but still I have to pay.
You want the right to choose and have it. I dont. Why? Because OfnBama took it away. Whats next?
November 7, 2013 at 3:59 pm
FFA says:
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Bob asks JW – “Why is it such a problem for you to take out your purse and pay $12 dollars?”
because OfnBama already took it.
November 8, 2013 at 7:22 am
jw says:
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FFA & bob, it is true, I did have a choice on my health insurance. My choices were a standard point of service and an HMO. I chose the HMO. I pay more for the HMO than if I had gone with the POS.
Now, I had no choices of types of HMO. My plan has covered the same things since we went to the HMO over 10 years ago. The only changes have been the copay amounts.
November 5, 2013 at 6:16 pm
insurance is fun! says:
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…for the same reason that property owners who don’t have children must pay school tax…and people who don’t drive contribute to highway tax…people who will never fly in space are taxed for NASA…people who haven’t been sick for years fund the CDC…and people who stockpile rifles are taxed to support a military…I could go on.
Do you really think we, as citizens, should only pay taxes for things we use? Come on.
I’m guessing they want prescription coverage for viagra though. However, since intercourse was only intended for procreation, then viagra should be denied to those men whose wives are past child bearing year. There, everyone happy now?
Hey Sargeant, You are retired military so you can appreciate a real life story. I have a friend who is also retired military eligible for VA health benefits. Several weeks ago, he started having gall bladder problems. He went to the VA hospital, they ran a few tests and they said the tests were inconclusive. The problem got worse and infection set in. They had to give him anti-biotics for the infection before doing an operation. After a week in the hospital, they told him they didn’t have a surgeon available to take it out. He came home and is now trying to get the procedure done locally. Can we say “rationed” care for Veterans? What a joke! And Obama and minions like to brag that Verterans healthcare is very good.
The VA has been cutting back on healthcare for a very long time. My father retired from the Marine Corps in 1972, so yes, I actually do know something about the VA and what it does and does not cover. My husband retired from the Army about 4 years ago, btw. I also know all about Tricare, which has been around for a quite some time, also. The health care benefits promised to veterans has been both horrifyingly inept and occasionally good for the past 40 years. It’s a crap shoot based on where you go to the doctor. You can’t blame this problem on any ONE congress or president. It has been a mess that no one thought to clean up, because none of them actually care.
jw, I wasn’t talking about whether this procedure was covered or not. I am talking about availability of a surgeon for a surgery that is one of the simplest surgeries done in today’s hospitals. My buddy could die from this if his infected gall bladder is not removed. I am glad he is taking steps to get this done locally. I don’t think he will be visiting the VA again anytime soon.
I used the word “cover” when I should have said “available services”. Different VA hospitals have different available services. The one in Lexington has different surgeons than the one in Louisville. Same with specialists. Again, some people get lucky and the closest VA can help them. Others have to travel or go outside the VA.
November 8, 2013 at 3:20 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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If you want to have availability of a surgeon, you have to have funding, which means…wait for it…governement spending! That evil governement spending that those damn libtards favor. The VA has had many problems due to insufficient funding, as well as lack of proper oversight (which means those evil regulations that supposedly kill jobs – we can’t have any of that).
That being said, I agree with jw that it can depend on your location. I’ve had good experience with the VA. The only reason I get healthcare coverage through my employer is to provide coverage for my wife; I don’t even use it myself.
November 8, 2013 at 8:54 pm
jw says:
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Exactly DCMS, my dad has had good luck with the VA, but my husband hasn’t. It sucks. Seems to me there was a movie in the late 70s or maybe in the 80s based on the health care provided by VA doctors. Does anyone else remember that?
November 5, 2013 at 1:00 pm
Got Insurance? says:
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What ever happened to the separation of church and state??
Birth Control and maternity have been included in many employer plans for years. Everyone of every age and gender has been paying for that coverage for years.
What I don’t understand is why do ACA bashers want to pay for the expensive emergency room care that the uninsured currently receive now?? So many conditions are preventable if treated early…but by the time they are diagnosed in the emergency room they are very expensive – amputations – diaylsis – etc.
The curren system is unsustainable. Uninsured are growing number. Medicare number is growing as the population ages. Medicaid numbers growing as the wages drop and poverty increases. The voluntary market will soon be the smallest segment in the current health care system.
ACA is a way to keep the current insurance carriers in operation in a similar fashion to the current system. To keep in sustainable.
SL – Seems to me that with the premiums still soaring – we still are being charged for it. Not much has changed; has it? The whole ACA is about Obama socializing this country as well as our healthcare. The folks who make more money are paying for those who make less or like to sit on their butts and collect entilements. Europe has these plans in place and they aren’t looking pretty good these days and that’s exactly where we are headed – to hell in a hand basket. Obama wants the redistrubution of wealth and that is exactly what he’s doing with healthcare and entitlments. Where do you suppose the money is coming for the subsidies? From us taxpayers. “I will not increase the deficit by one penny for healthcare.” Isn’t that another Obama lie? How you people can still trust anything that comes out of this man’s mouth is beyound me. If his lips are moving he’s lying.
Always, it is amazing at the lengths some Progressive bloggers will go to try to justify this tragedy. The serial liar in the White House has them all brainwashed and they are eager lemmings to jump into the pit with him. I had to laugh at seeing the numbers for the great State of Nebraska, the recipient of the Cornhusker kickback received by the now infamous Ben Nelson. Rates have gone up 74% for Obamacare. I can see Nelson saying to himself, what have I done here? I thought this was the Affordable Care Act. What is affordable about this to my constituents?
Always, I would have liked to be a fly in the wall when the 15 Democratic Senators visited the White House yesterday to meet with the President. They are panicking now that the roll out has been such a disaster and know they will get the third degree from their constituents when they have to run in 14. Rates skyrocketing, people losing their coverage, no working website is not much to run on next year.
Did it occur to you that those Blue states will have opened their own state exchanges which are running well. It’s mostly the red states who opted out. Nose. Cutoff. Face. Spite.
And the Blue States with exchanges are enrolling mostly Medicaid Celtica, not the vaunted ACA. How much will all these Medicaid people end up costing the taxpayers?
November 7, 2013 at 4:19 pm
FFA says:
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They probably hired Americans to get the web sites up and running.
November 13, 2013 at 10:26 am
Agent says:
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So Celtica, one of your vaunted Blue States, Oregon has not enrolled one person and their site is non functioning. How do you explain that? Did they hire the same geek firm as the Feds?
November 7, 2013 at 4:05 pm
FFA says:
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SI, before any of this crap came about, I was paying $722 a month for me & wife with a $1K. I am now paying over $1500 with a $5K ded.
Celtica, please explain to me how this is better? If BC was already included and all other points you made were already there, how is 2x the premiums better?
How are people better off that are losing their jobs because the business can not afford this spike in rates? How are people better off when they have their hours slashed all in the name of OBama care?
How are we better off sending $650 M to a Canadian company that gave us a crap web site?
And yet the votes of VA who normally vote for a Republican governor if there is a Democratic president (and vice versa), voted in a Democratic Governor — and maybe the entire Democratic slate. Go figure.
You guys better come up with a better political platform that whining about Obamacare.
Always Amazed – so true — but thank goodness the adults in the GOP are finding a way to circumnavigate the tea party stupidity so we can get back to center.
Actually Celtica, ye of little facts. Northern Virginia is heavily settled by Federal Workers who like their gravy train. Obamacare nearly won the election for Kuchinelli. I think had he concentrated on the Obamacare nightmare, he could have pulled it off in this purple state. By the way, the blue state of New Jersey re-elected a Republican Governor. He is certainly not ideal and is mostly RINO, but he would surely end up being a better option for President than the one we have now.
Northern Virginia is also home to the heavily GOP populated Pentagon. I guess they like their gravy train too. That, and the Tea Party candidate blew another election. The Tea Party couldn’t even get their candidate past the primary in southern Alabama. In southern Alabama — of all places.
If what you mean by RINO is someone who is willing work with the other side, yeah, I guess Christie is a RINO. And he is electable in a blue state.
You’re in insurance (presumably). See a trend here?
Let’s recap, shall we? Obama was elected twice, the ACA is law, blessed by the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Senate is Democratic. Seems pretty real to me.
What part of make believe is that? Rand Paul’s speeches?
Lets Re- Cap – 17 mil people targeted. 18Mil being cancelled. 75 Mil (on group) at risk. $650Mil spent on a web site that don’t work sent OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
You can keep what you got – a flat out LIE to 18,000,000 people with a potential to another 75,000,000. I didn’t know we had that many fats cats out there. Premiums going up x 2
People losing their jobs. Employers cutting hours dropping group plans.
Yes, it is true. Criminals can become and probably are navigators who are taking an individuals most personal information to apply to the ACA. Nice going Democrats. Just gives you the warm and fuzzies doesn’t it? And as far as I know IL doesn’t have such a requirement since this can be state specific.
I just have one question: When are you Libs going to admit that we were all lied too? You can’t keep your plan or your doctor IF you like them. Obama is out there doing damage control and trying to back pedal on everything he’s been telling us since 2008. Now he’d doing a song and dance and digging his grave deeper and deeper. Transparency – what a joke. Either Obama had no clue has to how the ACA was going to be implemented or he bold face lied to every single American in this country. Don’t you think that his advisors would have told me that he couldn’t make such a false claim? No, I think that IF we all knew the truth there would have been a lot more backlash from even you liberals on the ACA. Elections have consequences.
Always, As we have been saying, Federal Navigators are not vetted for criminal history. Sebelius was grilled yesterday by the Senate and she admitted that they aren’t vetted and felons could be Navigators in their system. Hello ID Theft! How many people will want to give their personal information to a possible felon Navigator? I think a lot of people will be reluctant when they know this. I think Celtica should call them up and give her Social and bank info and see what happens to it.
I know Agent, I know. I remember posting this very information back before October that criminal background checks weren’t going to be done and Libby and probably Celtica as well mocked me for it. Well, they are pretty darn quiet today. Not a peep out of each of them. Even the FBI has stated that identity theft is a huge cause for concern and I think they would know what they’re talking about.
Not quiet, Amazed. Just tired of hearing all the Republican bullshit. You guys are the most negative, fearful, and paranoid people I know.
First of all, identity theft is a big problem EVERYWHERE. Second of all, criminals do not automatically equal identity theives. Third of all, can we wait until it actually happens and THEN wring our hands and run around in circles about it?
Keep grasping at straws, Libby. You’ve become very amusing. You can’t even come clean on agreeing that Obama’s been lying to us all since 2008. The ACA has blown up in his face and “what I meant was” BS! PEROID! And now employer based plans aren’t safe either from being canceled. Lies, lies, lies. It must be nice to live in fantasy land with rainbows and unicorns. I just don’t understand how you all cannot admit that it was all a lies and that also goes for the Benghazi “video”, the NSA, Fast & Furious and on and on. If Obama’s lips are moving he’s lying. If this were Bush trying to back peddle the ACA you’d be in your glory so don’t give me your liberal BS. You have no ground to stand on this issue. Obama’s been lying all throughout his presidency and there’s no going back now. He can’t recant anything that he said in the past – thank goodness for YouTube! PERIOD.
I bet if you had to sign up for the ACA you’d have second thoughts of doing so on such an unsecure website. Yes, credit fraud has been around for a long time but why make it any easier out there for these folks? The ACA just gave them a huge boost and even the FBI thinks so. All we can say is “We told you so!” Ha!
I don’t know if he lied or misspoke because I don’t know what’s in his heart. And neither do you. I know they specifically put the grandfather clause in the ACA so people could keep their plans. Did he know the insurance carriers were going to do what they could to get around it? I don’t know. If not, he was certainly naive to say the least.
If he lied, he’s a son of a bitch. Is that better? I know you hate it when I bring up Bush but I’m convinced he lied about WMD’s. I have no proof, but I “know” it. You feel the same about Obama and the ACA. So, I understand.
And as far as “All we can say is “We told you so!” Ha!” That’s a pretty sorry retort when so many people are being impacted. But you want to be sure we know you told us so and are laughing about it.
Libby, while sitting on the waiting room during my wifes’ “surgery” Procedure late morning into early afternoon, he was informed of this (Per the Daily Hearld) somewhere in 2010. He continued to spit out his lies. The article stated he is working within the frame work of the law to “change it” so we don’t need any more legislation.
The Chicago Tribune didn’t mention any of it.
Also, Dominicks ( A large Grocery Chain) is closing up. 5600 people hitting the unemployment line just in time for the holidays. Merry x Mass to them folks! After the Holiday workers get laid off in the retail sector, the .01% jump in the unemployment rate reported today is going to jump again… I am dreading to see what is going to happen come the Jan figures…
So FFA, My friend who was a veteran and eligible for VA treatment nearly died from a serious gall bladder infection that the VA couldn’t treat and didn’t have a surgeon available, so he came back to get it done locally. What should have been a routine gall bladder surgery took 6 hours since they had to treat all the complications of infection and blockages. He did survive and should recover and I don’t think he will go back to the VA anytime soon.
Is there any one left in the forum that supports this thing? Libby came off that position. JW has stated so.
Is it just Celtica & Cap?
Might I add that Badger care in Wis was a failure. For those not familiar, Badger Care was much like Obama Care with out the massive price tag on a web site that don’t work and respected the religious side of things. It was driving the state broke so Walker got rid of it and now the budget is balanced. Walker, may I remind you, is the only person in the history of Recall Elections that retained his position.
So FFA, how did you like that apology that wasn’t an apology for lying and deceiving the people and for having the most dysfunctional and expensive website in American history? I think more information will be coming forth that the powers that be had all this planned for the past 3 years. The way to get 7 million to sign up for Obamacare is to make sure they lose the coverage they liked. The thing he didn’t count on was the monumental screw up by the website designers. He thought it would sail right through and they would get a million the first week. Oops! A couple of hundred at best. Medicaid seems to be where a vast majority have gone in the State Exchanges. Why? I thought this was the Affordable Care Act and he was going to save families $2,500 per year. Instead, the cost is doubling for many.
FFA, Cap is for it because he doesn’t have it and he is not affected by it personally. I wonder how he would feel if he had an Individual policy covering himself and family and it was cancelled like millions of other Americans. So he goes on the exchange and oops, the premium is double for a higher deductible and higher out of pocket and by the way, he couldn’t keep the doctor for himself and kids. He had better hope the Group coverage he has doesn’t tank like it is predicted in 14.
Agent, A few days ago, I posted the question if anyone in this forum is still on board with this ACA.
NOT ONE HAS SAID YES. Not even cap or ron has spoken in favor of this. Looks like we have found common ground. Not through debating skills, but because it is exposed to be not workable.
I truly believe that if all the regulars in this forum would sit down at the table, it would not be pretty, but we as professionals would get the job done correctly and not send Millions of American dollars out of the country like Romney, oops, I mean Obama did.
So, I’ll leave for the week end with this question –
I also have noticed the left leaning on this site getting quieter and quieter. I at least expected Ron to blame the Republicans for this monumental mess or to try to deflect attention from it and say the economy is great. What can they do to wag the dog a little more? Immigration Reform and an Iran deal where we are trying to soft pedal sanctions to get a deal with them is the new tack. Even the French was against Kerry’s proposal. Wow, where did these clowns come from?
FFA, I don’t know if you have seen Kirsten Powers on Fox commenting on issues before, but she is one of the Democrats they have to oppose the Conservative commentators. She has been singing the praises of Obamacare since it was passed and has argued with several of the conservatives on several programs. A strange thing happened to her. Since she is just a contributor and not an employee of Fox, she had to buy her own insurance on the Individual market. She just got her cancellation notice. When she went online to get a quote, the premium was double what she was paying, had much higher deductibles, out of pocket expense since she was one of the young crowd. She is absolutely livid now for having to subsidize those that are getting it for free or getting subsidies. She also feels betrayed just like the American People. I don’t think we will see her singing any praises of Obama anytime soon.
I left him and Sporals sitting on the bench last night. Bone Head move cost me my game and now its looking like I got to win out.
Ran into the Manning Buz Saw again. Two time this guy has gone above and beyond to destroy my week.
November 7, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Always Amazed says:
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You are so amusing! You don’t know what’s in his heart? Try him knowing what’s in the ACA! His heart has nothing to do with this down fall. You really are grasping at straws. Doesn’t know what is in his heart. Too funny – thanks for the laugh.
You did hear that Syria now has/had WDS – where do you suppose those came from? Humm? Open your liberal eyes for goodness sakes.
We tried to warn you that the ACA would be a disaster. You wouldn’t listen. I do feel bad for all those who have lost their insurance polices so don’t you go pointing your boney finger at me. I’m laughing at you and your ever believing trust that the ACA was going to save the world and everyone everywhere was going to have affordable health insurance. However no one was told about the price they would have to pay in increased premium or of them loosing their “sub-standard” plans. Oh, and their doctors and the hospitals they once went too as well. See how you liberals try to spin things and create a false scenario. Nice try; didn’t work.
Amazed – When did I ever say “the ACA was going to save the world and everyone everywhere was going to have affordable health insurance.”? I AM for everyone having access to affordable health insurance &/or healthcare. I would have thought everyone would have taken that position, but I guess that just makes me a loony toon liberal.
I’d rather be that than a hardened, fearful, judgemental person like many on this blog.
Libby, if he would have used the old school definition of Affordable meaning premium reduction with no coverage reduction, I would have been on board with this too. He took away my freedom of choice.
There was access to Health Ins for the Pre X People on IL, IN and WI. Cant speak for the rest of the country. He could have worked within them systems with out causing massive rate hike and large increases in OOP expenses along with a broken promise to over 12 Mil People as reported on the news this AM with a potential of another 75Mil people on groups. $650Mil + on a web site that don’t work? He could have used the Professional agency force that controls 90% of the Health Market to work with. All we would have had to do – web site wise – was get the IRS portion taken care of. All he tried to do was create a Quick Rater for Health Insurance. He could have used the existing Quick Raters out there. Instead, he sent how many Millions of out tax dollars out of the country. In my mind, he has done the same thing Romney did that you and all the other Dems blast him for. In that respect, he is just like the man you voted against.
Libby – you can be loony but then can’t we all. Obama promised that everyone was going to have affordable health insurance and family premiums would reduce as much as or by $2500 in premium a year. Did he not say those words? I’m sure I can find the video via YouTube if you like. The problem with you liberals is you believed him. I don’t think any of the dems even read the ACA before they passed it – think about it – how much misinformation was given by Obama and Pelosi on the ACA? Quite a lot so either they were lying about what was in it or they had no clue what was in it. Millions of people are going to loose their “sub-standard” (just love that spin) plans. I don’t think that is what any of you expected. I was petty surprised myself to be honest. And after the government shut-down I’m sure the all the Democrats were just high-fiving and fist bumping each others fits in victory and then the bottom fell out and they all had egg on their faces when the ACA rolled out way ahead of its time to even run smoothly. And now with credit fraud being an issue the whole thing looks even worse.
I’m not going to beat you up anymore over this issue. As FFA said you did mention in another forum (I must have missed that post – it’s hard to keep up with every single one) that you wanted this wiped off the books. Sadly, there is no turning back now and it’s only going to get wore once the employer plans implode. This has really angered a lot of people.
I agree with FFA, this insulting to our intelligence. Obama’s apology was a joke there was no emotion behind it. He’s not sorry – he’s pissed things didn’t right and I’d be pissed too but he didn’t apologize for all the misinformation that he’d put out there but that’s what makes him Obama and that’s the apology people needed to hear. Nothing seems to stick to him and he gets away with his all his lies over and over again. As the Who once said and I quote “We won’t get fooled again! No! No!”
Always, Libby has expressed disappointment with Obamacare, but is a fan of single payer government insurance. What a crock considering how inefficient and badly managed this is, not to mention the cost to the consumer. What strikes me about the so called apology is that he seems to think that when the website is fixed, everything will be fine. It won’t and the people have figured that out, but he and his minions and true believers think it will. Real people are getting hurt on this tragedy and someone needs to be held accountable. We want action to fix this, not flowery speeches and promises that are broken.
Amazed, she has stated in another forum that she wants this things wiped off the books.
Only Cap & Celtica (maybe a few more) continue to preach that this is good. Cap and myself are the only ones with a premium reduction. I would assume that cap is on a max rated group or was on some form of I Chip as that is the only demographic that I have been able to pin point with a premium reduction.
With ofnbamas bull …. apology on the news this am, even his most adamant supporters have got to be scratching their heads. The fence sitters have got to be tired of his …. lies. Its gone past spin… Its at the down right insulting to our intelligence point.. At least the entire country knows what you and I live with every day.
FFA, Obama knows that there are a lot of low information voters out there who will give him a pass on the lies and deceptions and will say he “Apologized” so drop it. Hey, life is great in Obamaland. The website will be fixed and everyone will have affordable healthcare, right? If you have a family, they will save you $2,500. Don’t pay any attention to those high deductibles and high out of pocket expenses. Just don’t ever get sick or file a claim and you will be fine.
Just in from Forbes FFA. They are predicting a repeal will be done before the mid terms. It will be the Democrats doing it instead of the Republicans. They are worried they will be thrown out and are getting desperate. They should be for passing something they didn’t read or understand that is the biggest tragedy ever passed by Congress. I think they will be thrown out anyway since people are tired of this nonsense. RINOS should also be shown the door.
Some good ol fashioned mansplaining from Bob, I dont know if its possible to be anymore clueless. Gotta love the life begins at erection crowd, always good for a laugh.
I just thought of this, and it really is a sad thought. For all those people who think their baby making days are over and don’t want maternity coverage, you may want to re-think if you have a daughter.
My daughter has 3 friends (in high school) who are having babies. Those girls are covered on their parents’ health insurance.
Many of you probably think this is a bad reason to keep maternity benefits (or birth control for your daughters), and I can respect that opinion. I’m just throwing this out there because my daughter and I discussed this last night and it’s on my mind. (I’ve used those pregnancies as teaching moments with my daughter)
JW, wont apply to me. My kids are too old. Looking like I will be putting my gr kids on the plan. Strangely – no extra premium for three gr kids. Need to have guardianship…
But no extra charge for 3 more???
When my daughter came home pregnant before she graduated HS, my insurance did cover that. So, again, whats the point.e
FFA, some of the goofy low information voters applying are putting their Spouse on as children per what the companies are saying. I am sure they are scratching their head on what to do with these people. I think they must be Walmartians.
Agent, my friend who is a navagator actually has a booth set up at a Walmart in the Chicagoland area in the evenigns a few nights a week to help folks sign up. How is that for service?
So Always, does she just have a bunch of paper apps to fill out and send in or is she trying to do it on a computer? I understand the paper apps sent also have to go into a qeue to be entered into the website that doesn’t work. That may be getting thick by now so they will have to hire more people to enter the info.
November 8, 2013 at 6:16 pm
FFA says:
Like or Dislike:
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More Obama Speak from BCBS –
“The final rule applies to plan years (or policy years in the individual market) beginning on or after July 1, 2014. Until the final rule becomes applicable, plans and issuers are instructed to continue to comply with the provisions of the interim final rule. The final rule incorporates clarifications issued by the federal agencies since the issuance of the interim final rule, and provides some new clarifications. The final rule also contains a technical amendment relating to external review with respect to the multi-state plan program administered by the Office of Personnel Management.”
Final Rule… Interim Final Rule. I guess final don’t mean final any more.
Agent said- “I wonder how this country ever survived for 200 years without mandating birth control be provided by employers.”
Agent, you are correct. To me it is a matter of choice. You know the libtards always like the term “Choice”. As far as I am concerned, If you want the healthcare system to pay for it, buy a plan and pay for birth control. But If you don’t want to buy it or you don’t want to pay for maternity care or pediatrics, or drub addiction/ rehab or metal illness or Viagra or whatever, you should have a choice and not buy it. That way the premium is reflective of the risk and you buy what you are exposed to. Gee, that sounds like the basic concept of insurance! You would not buy Workers Comp if you had no employees or no exposure, why would you have to pay for birth control pills if you have no exposure and no need?
It is all about entitlement and the left crowd wants everything handed to them on a silver platter no matter what the cost. They aren’t responsible like we were when we were younger and wives were in child bearing years. A good plan would have some coverage options, but the options they have are deductibles, out of pocket maximums, but no give in the mandated coverage.
BTW- Rueters reported that by year end and because of the Unaffordable Healthcare Act, that there will be more people without healthcare insurance than when he took office. Not to mention the cost increases. Why, Because of the 15 million people who are having their insurance cancelled, the failed website fiasco and the fact that the majority of the 50K that have signed up have been Medicaid recipients.
If you think this is bad Sargeant, wait until the Group business hits the doldrums in 2014. I agree that the country will have far less citizens covered by the time the dust clears. I thought it was about getting more covered, but it is doing just the opposite. This is the mother of all ill conceived bills.
Well Sargeant, when you have the former liar in charge telling the current liar in charge that he needs to honor his promise, things are really unraveling. No way to spin it out anymore. Even Diane Feinstein of California, formerly one of the biggest promoters has heard from some of her million constituents who have lost their coverage and now says it is time to fix it. This should be an interesting week in the halls of Congress. They are having the IT geek testify on the website and the lack of security on it.
We should stop calling the ACA ObamaCare and start referring to it as DemocratCare. They own it; all of them do, solely.
When will the Republicans begin work on their alternative plan that they keep insisting they already have?
When will you realize that Republicans were shut out of the process when this Obamanation was written? Need I repeat that Democrats controlled both houses and the Presidency? Even with those overwhelming majorities, they had a very difficult time getting it passed when a lot of Blue Dog Democrats had well founded reservations and knew they would be vulnerable in the mid terms as was proven out in 2010. The Democrats rejected every Republican idea that was presented.
…yeah…all zero of them
Do grow up.
This old “republicans don’t come up with dem dere idears!” Is getting old.
Your party has had no ideas to medicare and social security other than tax rates and spending over the last 60 years.
Ours came up with the ROTH IRA, sought to expand that for low income earners to not only make the income invested income tax free at investment, but also not taxed at withdrawal (right now, if you use a 401k it is taxed as ordinary income at withdrawal) AND the investments provided tax credits. All of those were from republicans, and all of them sought to reward savers, give incentives to savers, and well, it vastly expanded the amount that people invest and have in their investment portfolios. How’s that social security reliance working out for retirees now? It looks pretty dim in the future.
You guys can keep rejecting plans like this, (like happened in Bush W’s presidency when he tried to implement the plan I said above. Democrats said it would hurt revenues too much. Not taxing the poor, would hurt revenues too much. Read that over.).
Medicare advantage, and vouchers, republican.
Whereas your party is the party of “NO” new ideas whatsoever in those areas, and those are our primary two areas that need work.
Forget also that Reagan passed the law requiring hospitals to provide care. No new or good ideas from republicans right? You clowns on the left actually try to blame that for high insurance costs (I’ve already shown it is a maximum of $8 billion per year that hospitals don’t collect).
But right right, republicans never have “new” ideas.
Right. Gotcha.
The CBO rated plans, those just don’t exist. SHHHH!!! Writing insurance across state lines SHHH!!!!!
Insurance exchanges, which Obama actually did take from them SHHH!!!!
Just SHHHHH insurance, block it all out! Yee haw go for dem dere democrats!
:)
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124277551107536875
Don’t let the facts hit your rear end on the way out.
This is some of the ideas they proposed. This is not the actual CBO rated plan.
All zero of dem der hick plans right? The party of red necks and no and no ideas I imagine right?
That $5,000 debit card to buy insurance for the poorest Americans would have just sucked.
GGGOOSSSHHH!
Bob: “401k investments are for the poor. Your history wasn’t needed. ”
Bob, Bob, Bob, the poor do not have money to invest. That is part of what makes them poor. As for discounting the history of the evolution of the 401k from a neutral source, go ahead and discount it. But it doesn’t change how the 401k evolved from a deferred income vehicle for the upper income to a vehicle available to all.
Really, it doesn’t.
Hey Bob, The Democrats have the best mascot between the two parties. Jackass! It fits them to a tee. The Republican Elephant never forgets being wronged and does useful work.
Bob sez: 401k investments are for the poor.
Celtica sez: Can anyone imagine, for even a flash of a moment, that taxpayers would even stand for the poor investing any funds while collecting food stamps, welfare and ACA benefits
Seriously? Anyone?
There were several alternative plans.
The democrats refused all of them.
You can disagree with the alternative plans (and I would say it would make you inept)
But you cannot state they don’t exist.
Bob, the reason why the 401k was created had NOTHING to do with rewarding savers. It was used an a tax shield vehicle for very high earners (captains on industry level). It was only when the IRS insisted it be made available to all did companies open it up to mere worker bee employees. Especially when the corporations raided the pension funds and “converted” it to assets that then paid executive bonuses.
Just FYI.
Celitica,
Really now?
Conspiracy theory much? Are you quite aware that there are limits to 401k contributions, and cut offs on income?
Roth IRA’s have much more strict cut offs. Republicans made the Roth IRA. And they made it fair. The cut offs for the newer totally tax free vehicles was around $80,000.
So much for the “super wealthy”
On that one.
Idiot.
Dear Bob:
Don’t let the facts get in your way of a good GOP fish story. The GOP has never been a friend to the average worker, only the highly paid ones.
History of the 40lk
http://www.ici.org/pdf/per12-02.pdf
In the 1950s, a number of companies, particularly
banks, added to their profit-sharing plans a new feature
that came to be called a “cash or deferred arrangement,” or
CODA. …
In 1956, the IRS issued the first in a series of rulings
allowing profit-sharing plans to include a CODA and still be
eligible for the favorable tax treatment accorded employer
contributions. …
These early IRS rulings required numerical
testing of the contributions of highly and non-highly paid
employees—the precursors of the nondiscrimination tests
imposed on 401(k) plans today.
Celitica,
And I really have to hammer this home:
So you don’t want the investment type of plan I mentioned, and don’t think it will help the poor, because you believe it might help the rich?
Do you see the problem there Celitica?
You’re screwing the poor because you want to make sure the rich cannot invest.
That doesn’t make sense. At all.
It would help the poor. We should have done it. End of story.
It is the only plan that didn’t involve social security spending, cutting, or tax raising.
There have been no system changes or changes made by democrats to actually help people retire. None.
Celitica,
Are you really trying to make the argument that 401k’s are bad?
Some people manipulate every type of system. So we should just take it away right?
I know how 401k plans work. I know how for example, someone like Romney can make shares of his company the method of investment, and get for example $16,500 of his company in shares is his $16,500 investment, and then when those shares explode, he gets tax free huge incomes.
I’m also aware that Romney is the 1%. Only the wealthiest 1% of the 1% take such measures to work the system. The 99% however, benefit from 401k’s, Roth IRA’s, and would have benefited from the plan to make a 401k plan that isn’t taxed as income when invested, receives a tax credit for the low income earners, and isn’t taxed at withdrawal for people making $80k or under.
You keep saying these statements that make it clear you are just hell bent on voting democrat, or believing republicans don’t do anything good.
You’re wrong.
Bobby,
No conspiracy theory. Pensions were reaided.
And you are going oveboard (again) by going on and on and on thinking I do hate 40lks. I do not.
I just know its history and why it got to where it was (from deferring income for a select group of well paid executives) to now being the main retirement investment vehicle (after the executives raided the pensions).
Stop going overboard and stay focused on a statement rather than throwing the baby out with bathwater.
Celitica,
401k investments are for the poor.
Your history wasn’t needed.
You’re trying not to give credit to the republicans for what the did to help the middle class.
Repeat after me: Republicans made every tax incentive for retirement, and tax vehicle, outside of Social Security. And they have tried to make more.
So rather than you’re tar you throw out, Republicans are better for the middle class ;)
Now I’m done with your whining, go back to bed, child.
I’m curious. When were the alternatives presented? What happened to the votes?
jw, surely your memory is better than this. I assume you thought there was votes for Healthcare Reform other than what we ended up with. Do you not remember the Blair House meeting early in the President’s first term? Cantor presented Republican ideas to Obama and Obama just stared at him, thanked him and then said thanks, but no thanks. Get on the back of the bus. There was never any votes on the Republican plan with Pelosi in charge of the House and Reid in the Senate. The only vote was their vote and they had plenty of trouble getting it passed, hence the corruption of several senators and blatant intimidation of the moderate Democrats. All the while, Obama was accusing Republicans of standing in the way of Healthcare Reform. Tell me, if Democrats had overwhelming control of both houses, why did they need Republicans to help pass it? Eventually, it was passed with 0 votes from Republicans in the House and Senate.
Um, Agent, you do remember me saying I don’t keep up with the news? I didn’t know anything about the repub plan or the ACA. I do my best not to know.
I’m in P&C, and as long as the powers that be leave me to P&C, I’m not going to worry about learning health.
I’ve been out of healthcare since 2003. Long before the whole PPACA crap was imagined. While I was in healthcare, I worried about insurance payments and billing and all the things that were coming out of DC and Frankfort. Now, I don’t have to and I don’t want to.
Just in case someone thinks otherwise, my previous comment isn’t sarcasm. I actually want to know. I’ve asked before, but not gotten the answer to these two questions. Please, just the basic info, no name calling necessary.
JW:
I don’t think you were sarcastic. You’re not like others on this site.
What happened, is democrats blocked them.
Obama said the famous line “you sit in the back” and we are in “drive not reverse” (play on D versus R) and he as well as media blocked all talk on it from becoming public.
Really JW, would you not have supported these additions?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124277551107536875
Note the debit card, and $5,700 worth of subsidies.)
Also would you really have hated writing insurance across state lines? Republicans pushed for that as well.
They did push for the exchanges, which Obama took.
But the rest, it’s just balderdash to me as to why people are allowing this type of power to exist on the left. The country is completely blindsided to republican ideals, and it has nothing to do with republicans.
Those are good ideas.
Doesn’t it scare you that the republicans are being blocked that well, that you don’t know about it?
It’s the main reason I’m not a democrat.
Clearly, I have made mention of some of my more democrat style beliefs. For example I do not care about embryonic stem cell research. The law that Obama passed I was ok with.
HPV vaccines, when the Texas Governor tried to block it, I got pissed. I have a daughter after all and HPV causes cervical cancer.
I actually support a public type “option”. I was actually surprised when I found this, as I find it better than a public option. $5,000 to buy private insurance may be expensive, but it would cover everyone and would give them good insurance! This is by the way, one of the reasons I love Paul Ryan.
Note that this was one of HIS MANY ideas!
Look him up a bit. The guy is what we need.
I read the article, and I agree with you, the alternative presented was actually well thought out and might have worked. (please remember, I am not an ACA fan – you haven’t lured me from the dark side)
Okay, the article from May 2009 states those senators were introducing the Patients’ Choice Act that day. What happened? Do you have any articles about that?
I do, and I have more history if you’re interested on it.
This starts back in 1995, when republican congress began to try to make changes to healthcare/medicare. Clinton started to veto all plans to change medicare.
For this bill, it “died” on arrival. Democrats wouldn’t bring it up for vote.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr2520
It was also brought up as early as July 2007.
Do you not find it odd that Bush W managed to pass bills expanding insurance for children, and expanding prescriptions, had the precursors of the Patients Choice Act put up for vote, tried to pass housing regulations in 2003, and again in 2005/2006,
And that he was labeled as a do nothing president for de regulation who didn’t try to modify the healthcare system?
You should know better than anyone, a majority doesn’t mean you can pass what you want unless you have a super majority.
Democrats got entirely in the way of change post Clinton.
Interesting. And sad. Many things would be differnt now. I can’t say for certain they would be great, but different would probably be better.
I’m not a die hard democrat; I would vote for a martian if I thought they’d do a good job. Of course, my emotions do rule what I think is a good job. Not going to aplogize, either. I generally approach the voting as a “lessor of two evils” so, I’m not real thrilled with any of my choices. I hope someone can run and make me like voting for them. Then again, I can hope in one hand and all that. ;D
Bob I love Paul Ryan. Note that this was one of HIS MANY ideas
Ummm, how do we know they are really “his” ideas????
Celitica,
I don’t have to nor do I want to educate you. You’re not worth my time.
How do “we” know? “YOU” don’t, and the primary reason is that you are hell bent on hating republicans.
I don’t work with that type of hate. You surpass even Libby. I wasted my time on her on this blog again, and I’m not repeating that mistake with you.
You should look up your politicians, rather than complain about the republicans as if they don’t want healthcare changes (I’ve proven that wrong with the patients choice act, and the 2009 CBO rated plan for healthcare) or that they are the party of “no” (I’ve proven that democrats refuse to make alternatives to social security, and you say those “alternatives” weren’t meant for the poor, so we can’t count them right?) or some other trash, about them being against gays (we passed a gay marriage law here, that the republicans only tried to add two amendments, one to protect religions, and one to require the government to get a vote from the people on it, doesn’t sound corrupt to me) or some other trash about some other “republican”-aphobic crap.
I don’t deal with your kind. I usually just tell them to shut the hell up, grow up, and do research.
So bug off.
when a snowball has a chance in hell – maybe after the mid terms next year.
FFA, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Democrats are losing credibility and the 16 Senators visiting at the White House a couple of days ago indicate to me they are about to bail on Obama. They clearly don’t want to fall on their sword for this President and privately probably think he is an imbecile for this travesty and his lack of governing skills. How would you like to be one of these liberal Democratic Senators facing constituents next fall when the folks are losing their coverage and they know you voted for it? I think the rails, tar & feathers will be out along with pitchforks.
The law does not require the business owners to take contraceptives regardless of their religious beliefs. It only requires that contraceptives be available to employees whose religious beliefs allow it.
By available, do you mean: 1) Anyone can go to the drugstore and buy them? or 2) Anyone can go to the drugstore and I’ll buy them?
It means anyone can go to the drugstore and their insurance carrier will pay for them through their policy for which they pay premium. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.
And that’s not what insurance is for.
There’s a reason that health insurance doesn’t cover advil or low cost prescriptions. That’s because it adds costs for such drugs.
This law was to avoid the fact that the government is not supposed to be funding these types of things publicly, so they put something in place to make a pill that costs $15 go up to $50 plus, and pass it on to every other person.
That isn’t a hard concept to grasp. Yet you don’t. This is something that should never have been done, regardless if the pathetic beliefs regarding forcing businesses to be absent of religion in their practice of business.
What do you mean “There’s a reason that health insurance doesn’t cover … low cost prescriptions.” Doesn’t it already cover all prescriptions? I had an HMO for the longest time, and EVERYTHING was covered by the prescription plan with various copays.
The advil isn’t covered because it’s not a prescription. It can’t even be covered by an HSA.
JW:
I mixed two ideas in one sentence.
It doesn’t cover Advil, or low cost drugs, and birth control prescriptions are essentially the same.
It’s about to grow up and start having these debates on economic soundness, government logics, and what’s best.
Not to try to make a moral or ideological argument about the hardships of women over a $15 dollar pill.
It doesn’t make your gender that partakes in this fight look very good at all, and in fact, inspires sexism. Quit the whining, pay for the pill, stop trying to force everyone else to cover it while crying that “the big bad business is getting in the way of your life”. No. They aren’t. The drugs are available. The big bad business is tired of people making ideological arguments to pay for absurd household items.
I would consider birth control like paying for a house plant. It is stupid.
Do these employers only hire people with similar religous beliefs? If an employee has a different religous belief than you, is it not infringing on their religous freedom to not cover birth control? It just seems like there are a lot of different ways to look at this arguement when the bottom line should be that you don’t have the right to pick for others or restrict their healthcare because of you’re beliefs. Their beliefs may be different, but you should respect that.
Scott R. I agree. We should stop calling it ACA or affordable care act. DemocratCare sounds good. Or DemoCare, DemoCrap or BO Care works too. It stinks!
How about Obamacaid since most of the state exchanges are sending the applicants to Medicaid instead of the vaunted ACA? Another good one might be Unaffordable Care Act since it is unaffordable for most middle class Americans.
Or how about RomneyCare? After all, he already had this plan in place before it was “ObamaCare”. Or, better yet, how about ConservativeCare? After all, this plan was designed by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative organization. DemocratCare would have been universal healthcare. The repubs blocked those efforts, so we got ConservativeCare instead.
Shirley, if it were Romney Care it (the web site) would actually be working like it is in Romney land…. He would have out sourced the web builders to a foreign country that was capable probably not based on Crony-ism. Given the fact he is not from IL, I could only assume he would have only told half lies..
Let me get this straight. Two male catholics are suing because they don’t want their wives to have access to contraceptives? What am I missing on the absurdity of this lawsuit?
Hey Caldude, It might surprise you to know that a lot of people in this country doesn’t like being dictated to about their Healthcare coverage. Does it make any sense to offer maternity benefits to young healthy males or to people past child bearing years? The one size fits all package is obviously not working out so well. I hope you have to buy the Bronze plan with a 10,000 deductible in order to find a premium you can afford.
C’mon man, people have had their lives directed by healthcare for years. Have we forgotten the basis of insurance whereby risk is spread amongst a group? Clients who never get sued have liability insurance; no fire, but fire insurance; and the list goes on and on.
I have relatives that have never purchased any health insurance in their lives, but have had heart surgery and a myriad of other ailments treated. They don’t buy it for the same reason you have stated, “…you can’t tell me what to do.” Ridiculous 4th grade attitude.
If there wives want contraception, they can buy it at Walgreen’s for less than $15 per month. They are suing because the Obama Administration is forcing its social engineering agenda down the throats of those who believe in the reality of natural law. Pregnancy is not identified as a disease in any US practitioner’s manual. Therefore, artificial birth control and abortifacients are not preventive healthcare. Instead, the use of these artificial steroids, that cause the death of countless unborn innocent children and over 2,000 US women each year due to breast cancer and stroke, is a life style choice. The logical result of a man and woman having intercourse during her gestation period is pregnancy. If pregnancy does not occur after many attempts, an adverse medical condition in either the male or female may exist. Health insurance polices pay for the cost of discovering and treating this disorder.
Spoken like a true MAN. Birth control does not cause the death of countless unborn innocent children. It PREVENTS them from forming in the first place. Until then it’s just an egg. Maybe some biology lessons are in order for you.
Libby,
Spoken like a true WOMAN.
His points on deaths of US women from using birth control is a pretty valid one.
But you prefer death over life eh?
Also: This doesn’t just fund birth control, and he never stated that he was talking about birth control, so perhaps he is not in need of education, but you are in need of not assuming, not applying labels, and paying attention eh?
Emergency contraception is a part of this mandate. Do you know what that means Libby?
While I’m sure you are ok with such measures, the child is forming in the case of emergency contraception. So let’s at least be honest about the debate, rather than labeling the other side, and making crap up in order to make the other side look like a fool.
It’s not an appropriate method of debate.
Since I’m pro-choice, you’re right, I don’t have a problem with emergency contraception. When men get pregnant, they can make the decisions about their bodies. It’s one of those emotional decisions that you won’t be able to change my mind.
I’m pro death penalty, too, just in case you’re curious.
Bob – I’m assuming you’re talking about the morning after pill. There is no way of knowing the morning after having sex whether you have fertilized an egg or not.
And I stand by my statement that Mike K needs biology lessons because he says: “…artificial birth control and abortifacients are not preventive healthcare.” So he WAS talking about birth control other than the “pull out” or “rhythm method.” Keep your rants to yourself. You have no right to comment on this issue if you are not a woman. Period.
First of all:
Us men are involved in the impregnating. Quit trying to dominate reproduction. It’s not yours to dominate.
Second of all:
#@%@ you. Whether or not you’re a woman is @%@$%ing irrelevant to whether or not you’re wrong about a child being at the point of development, you trash. Why am I mad by the by? You just honestly used the “You don’t know this topic because you’re a man” and it is sexist as all hell, WOMAN (see the point? It’s condescending and sexist)). Don’t try to use that to block out common sense, logics, or science. We aren’t a lot different in some ways. You hate republicans who use religion to block things out. I figure those people are sheep, I give them ignorance as a shield. You actually used blind emotions, despite intellect to think otherwise, to pull some crap out of your rear end in response to a guy who had a good point, all for an idelogocal ticker in your head (akin to religious zealots, but again, you aren’t a zealot and therefore are held to a higher standard. They do it they are stupid. You do it, and you’re just freaking a “hater” by a youngin’s terms and are pathetic.)
You weren’t a part of men’s hardships with the draft. Were you ok authorizing that one?
Don’t feed me bull crap lines Libby.
Also: His wording was bad, his message was clear, and “abortifacients” was in that phrase you used. He considers morning after pill to be an “abortifacients”. Yes, you can’t tell if the person is pregnant. You also can’t NOT tell, which you would be doing by default by assuming that in all cases that the baby would not be killed. Whereas, he simply said that some babies are killed.
You made the argument that no children are even developing scientifically. And I told you, you may believe what you believe, about whether it’s ok at that point to abort life, but you cannot make up crap about whether or not the child is forming. You were wrong. End of story. And
My “rants” are always beyond the thought process you are capable of. So please, don’t go with the “another of your rants!”. You can’t even tie your shoes without tripping over an ideological ideal.
You say Libby’s wrong. I say you’re wrong. You are entitled to your opinion, that’s as far as I’m willing to concede.
The opinion in question is when life begins, btw.
JW:
Did you note at all, in my post, where I said that she is perfectly entitled to believe that at that point abortion is ok, but that she cannot state that the child is not developing.
That is scientifically inaccurate.
My post wasn’t about the morality, of which, I do not care to debate.
So what am I wrong on JW?
Don’t let your emotions get the better of your arguments.
bob, I really was referring to the “a child being at the point of development” opinion. Since a fertilized egg cannot continue life outside of the uterus, it’s not a child. It’s an organism. Straight up biology. Until that conglomeration of cells can exist without the uterus, it’s not a child.
Strictly speaking, the organism in question is a parasite. Frequently causing violent illness in the woman’s body.
JW:
As soon as it begins developing, it is a developing human being.
I realize that you have convinced yourself on the other science that because it cannot survive on it’s own that it is an organism. That ignores common sense. It is human sperm. Human egg. They combined. It is developing.
Regardless, these minor points that you only think about to justify your mentality of disregarding the life by any means possible, are counter productive.
The point still stands: She said that the development had not started. She definitely was implying that the egg and sperm had not even combined.
Of which, she was wrong.
bob, “The point still stands: She said that the development had not started. She definitely was implying that the egg and sperm had not even combined.”
Birth control pills are supposed to keep the egg from being fertilized. The morning after pill will force the body to expell the egg, whether it has been fertilized or not. That’s what she said. Which is actually correct. You don’t know. You don’t need to know. The pill will work either way.
Having been pregnant twice, I’ll stick to my opinion on this topic, thank you.
JW:
I do know. I do have reason to know. I actually care about the child over my body, because I’m removed from the equation.
What I don’t know, and can’t talk about is your body.
What I do know, and can talk about, but you can’t talk about due to your bias, is the child/development. You are in no position, now is any female, to talk about the development of the child due to your bias based on your body. And it is a selfish bias. The most selfish on this planet. If it is your goal to state that the pressures of raising a child are the real pressure, then you mean men CAN comment because we have those same pressures. No matter which course you take, you cannot try to shut up men on the topic.
Moving on: Once it is a “fertilized” egg, it is a developing child. Whether or not you want to try to make up some BS story as to it not being the case.
“It PREVENTS them from forming in the first place.”
Abstinence or birth control before the fertilization does that.
Preventing the forming is terminating the life. Whether you want to call that murder, is simply because you don’t value life.
bob, my “you don’t know” was actually referring to you don’t know if the egg has been fertilized. It has (had?) nothing to do with what YOU know. Sorry. Didn’t mean to confuse an already confusing topic.
By the way, I never claimed to be anything other than selfish. I am biased, you are correct. I admit my failings. I am the product of all my experiences, both good and bad. In some respects I carry the experiences of my parents and children, as well.
I am comfortable with my beliefs. Just as you are comfortable with yours. It’s ok. You will not change my mind any more than I will change yours. Accept it and drive on.
Bob: How is “Preventing the forming is terminating the life.”? There is no life to terminate if you have prevented the fertilizing of an egg and, as you say, “development of a child.”
If you want to say an embryo and/or fetus are a developing child, OK. I still say I have the right to decide whether I want to continue to have it in my womb or not. After all, it’s my womb.
Sorry you don’t like that answer, but it’s the truth.
It’s funny on how birth control is such a big deal to be included. I’m so sick of this ObamaCare or ACA. The ACA deciding on what we need when we didn’t even get to VOTE on it. This is bull crap. And before anyone can say anything about me having insurance through my employer and the ACA doesn’t apply to me. Well it does because my blood work that was covered during my preventative exam is no longer covered. It says right on my EOB, “Due to the Afforable Care Act this is no longer covered under preventative.” And here I’m trying to have them check my blood and it’s being denied and the ACA is more concerned with Birth Control.
Reality check MK. You know and female catholics that take birth control pills?
I’ll hang up and wait for your answer…
MK: Female biology is not your strong suit. If a man and woman have intercourse during her gestation period, a pregnancy cannot result for the simple fact she is already pregnant, being in her gestation period and all.
Well, if those two male Catholics are say 50 years old and beyond child bearing years, why should they have to pay for contraceptive coverage, maternity care, pediatrics, Viagra or birth control pills? That’s why they bought healthcare plans that did not cover it and were less in premium. You know, those plans that Obama calls “substandard”.
The could just call it “The Unaffordable healthcare act”
Hey Sargeant, I wonder how this country ever survived for 200 years without mandating birth control be provided by employers. When you and I had young families, we took responsibility seriously and did the control thing privately. Now, the libs want the employer to pay and the additional cost built into the Group Plan. Just wait until the mandates hit the Group Plans next year and premiums will be out of reach for many employers so they will just drop their plans or cut back on employees or reduce hours. What have the Libs gained except to ruin the Healthcare for America?
Yes, I am sure including birth control will just send premiums soaring. Are you the ones always saying it shouldn’t be covered because it is so cheap to buy? Make up your minds.
Not to mention that most plans include birth control now anyway. And have for years.
It has Libs, I have the customes calling who have had their policies canceled because they do not meet the ACA requirements and their premium increased by 56% per BC/BS because they now have more coveage per BC/BS themselves. This is for a family of 4 and the mother has had her tubes tied. She needs maternity coveage as much as a fish needs a bicycle. I’m not talking about bc pills.
Always, only 56%???? Not bad for being affordable.
Libby,
You’re an insurance agent. Grow up.
Covering $15 dollar pills isn’t what insurance is for, and it does cause prices to soar.
PAY FOR THE $15 DOLLAR PILL. It is more efficient, fair, and affordable.
My (not birth control) prescription is less than $15 per month and is covered by my insurance and I pay $3 per month as my copay. I only know this because my pharmacy notes on my receipt how much my insurer paid. I doubt I’m the only person in the US who has an inexpensive prescription covered by insurance. Why is this a problem?
Do the math, and I know that you are the only person with something so inexpensive AND simultaneously constantly used prescription for the entire gender. There is no equivalent in insurance, because that isn’t what it’s for.
It is a problem because now everyone else would pay double the cost of the birth control, for you to pay less than $12 dollars a month. Go. BUY. IT. YOURSELF.
If we put everything on an insurance plan that was doubled in cost by being on it, catastrophic care would be hindered. Insurance premiums should be increasing to pay for heart surgeries. Not birth control. Even $10 on my policy per month is too much to be putting on it to cover birth control, but it is more likely, and you know this because you’re in insurance, closer to $40.
That is absolutely unacceptable.
My point was that many other under $15 prescriptions are covered by insurance. I checked, I actually have two. I don’t need birth control, so that’s not one of them.
Why is birth control such a problem for you?
Finally, since many plans already cover birth control, why is it such a big deal?
Why is it such a problem for you to take out your purse and pay $12 dollars?
Having the government get involved and raise the cost because you want to make a moral argument out of $12 dollars is exactly why I don’t respect you.
This is $12. Stop fighting over it. Stop trying to get someone else to pay for it.
You sound like a kid who just moved out and realizes she has to pay for shampoo. Are you going to call your mommy up for that one too?
It is inefficient to have the government get involved. I am about efficiency. Also, if someone is going to make it about the hardships of women, I have ZERO respect.
The hardships of paying for birth control, woe is me!
bob, you’re avoiding the question of other drugs that cost less than $15. Are you suggesting that ALL drugs under $20 or $15 should not be covered by insurance? I really am serious. Why treat one prescription differently?
To be honest, I don’t care. 1. You can get birth control free at the health department. 2. I don’t need it. I’m not advocating either method of purchase; I just want to know WHY birth control should be treated differently than my generic meds that cost less than $10 a month.
JW:
Which meds are you on consistently that cost less than $10 per month were you to buy them on your own?
I bluntly don’t believe you.
JW:
To answer your question, because I don’t believe low cost prescriptions are on plans that compare to birth control, I don’t believe ANY of those should be on insurance.
And if they are, I’m ticked.
You assumed I’m ok with other prescriptions being covered.
I’m not.
Also, if you’re talking about you purchasing a prescription plan separate from insurance (which I believe you are) please note: Not the same.
My health insurance includes prescriptions. I don’t have a separate vision or Rx. I do have a separate dental plan. All three children needed braces, so that was a necessity. Back to the prescriptions: I take a generic migraine medicine (to prevent migraines-so I take it every day) and a generic hormone stabilizer (trust me, it’s not pretty if I don’t have these every day). I have my EOB from Express Scripts in my hand. Oh, my copay has gone up. I’m now paying $5 per generic prescription. One of my drugs was only $4 and the other is $6. I paid $9 and the insurance paid $1. Yay me.
Yes, I keep my EOBs at work because I submit my copays to my HSA for reimbursement. Since Humana is kind enough to allow us to submit our HSA forms to an 800 number fax, I do that during my free time before work starts.
Wow, Bob. You out-and-out called jw a liar. You don’t know anything about her meds or her medical plan.
Many people have prescriptions that do not cost alot of money. That’s why there was a DEDUCTIBLE on most rx plan.
And how do you know how much birth control pills cost? Have you purchased any? $12? $20? $50? At what point does Bob’s Insurance Company allow you to claim them under your health insurance? For many people $12 is the difference between being able to feed their kids for a few days. How dare you make these assumptions about other people’s financial situation.
You are the one that needs to grow up. You are self-centered and egotistical. Just like a 3 year old.
Libby,
I took out the swear bleeps on that one. I out and said I didn’t believe her. Then I asked which drugs she was referring to.
Would I ask a liar a question? No.
Calling me a 3 year old is rich. I just don’t put up with crap.
Moving on, putting those other drugs on health insurance also raises the cost. I don’t think it should be done. That won’t change.
Moving on again:
That’s rich, how do I know how much they cost?
A quick google is a good way to find out.
BUT
Are you such a piece of trash, that you, knowing how much it costs, will say simply that I “don’t know” (even when I’m right) and then ask that question as a means of saying how do you know it’s actually $15 dollars?
I remember a lot of old girlfriends doing that when they would ask how I knew they had cheated. It was their way of finding out if they could discredit the source of how I figured it out or manipulate me.
What you just did is no different. You know the cost. Don’t try to act like I’m wrong on the fact that I’m saying what it costs, just because I’m not a woman.
That’s sexist.
JW:
Back to you:
My plan does not do that, nor do most plans.
But adding that many low cost prescriptions…Gives me a headache. The insurance company being involved in the payment and processing and tracking, are huge costs. It at least doubles the cost, even breaking even and the insurance company making no money (maintaining the staff).
Insurance should be left to high cost meds, high cost care, catastrophic care. For every $10 dollars of low cost prescription drugs you pull from an insurance policy, you may a well pull $20 dollars from catastrophic care.
That’s why I care.
Ok. Now, you have answered my question. You make an interesting point. I’m guessing that is one of the reasons my insurance company keeps asking me to switch to a mail order 3 month supply of my regular medicines.
I really didn’t know that other plans don’t cover all scripts. I’ve had HMOs other than the self funded plans through the hospitals where I worked. I’ve been on my current HMO for, wow, uh, over 10 years.
Bob – nice talk pal. I’m beginning to understand the real reason behind your hatred for women. Been cheated on, huh? I can see why.
Now, moving on.
1) “I out and said I didn’t believe her.” Uh, hello. That’s calling her a liar.
2) “putting those other drugs on health insurance also raises the cost. I don’t think it should be done. That won’t change.” At what point do we cover rx drugs? Not at all? Please answer the question.
3) “Are you such a piece of trash, that you, knowing how much it costs, will say simply that I “don’t know” (even when I’m right) and then ask that question as a means of saying how do you know it’s actually $15 dollars?” No, I am not a piece of trash. I’m 55 years old and it’s been a long, long time since I’ve needed birth control. BUT, I know 20 years ago I paid $20 a month, so I doubt they are $12 today. And, FYI, I have done a google search and have seen anywhere from Free to $100 per month.
So now you can shut it and go away.
jw – Don’t automatically think that just because Bob says it it is true. Most medical plans DO provide rx coverage and usually do so with a deductible. That is how they control not paying for low cost prescriptions. This is all done at the pharmacy level and they never even get to the insurance carrier for processing. So Bob’s theory of doubling the cost and the carrier losing money is hooey.
Bob – Just because you can afford and want a major medical/catastrophe type policy doesn’t mean everyone else should have the same thing. If I have to pay more for a more extensive plan, then so be it. Again, there’s your arrogance showing again.
Oh, and Bob, “fuck you” doesn’t faze me a bit. I think it’s hilarious I can get you so riled up. You’re almost TOO easy.
jw says – “My (not birth control) prescription is less than $15 per month and is covered by my insurance and I pay $3 per month as my copay”
Jw, you chose that option. you are paying for it. My HSA guy being dropped with premiums 2x through ACA does not have the option of excluding maternity.. I am past my baby making days and I have to pay for maternity. I don’t need BC any more, but still I have to pay.
You want the right to choose and have it. I dont. Why? Because OfnBama took it away. Whats next?
Bob asks JW – “Why is it such a problem for you to take out your purse and pay $12 dollars?”
because OfnBama already took it.
FFA & bob, it is true, I did have a choice on my health insurance. My choices were a standard point of service and an HMO. I chose the HMO. I pay more for the HMO than if I had gone with the POS.
Now, I had no choices of types of HMO. My plan has covered the same things since we went to the HMO over 10 years ago. The only changes have been the copay amounts.
…for the same reason that property owners who don’t have children must pay school tax…and people who don’t drive contribute to highway tax…people who will never fly in space are taxed for NASA…people who haven’t been sick for years fund the CDC…and people who stockpile rifles are taxed to support a military…I could go on.
Do you really think we, as citizens, should only pay taxes for things we use? Come on.
I’m guessing they want prescription coverage for viagra though. However, since intercourse was only intended for procreation, then viagra should be denied to those men whose wives are past child bearing year. There, everyone happy now?
I take Viagra just to keep me from rolling off the bed.
Maybe, but Obama said we don’t have that choice… He took that choice away from us.
Hey Sargeant, You are retired military so you can appreciate a real life story. I have a friend who is also retired military eligible for VA health benefits. Several weeks ago, he started having gall bladder problems. He went to the VA hospital, they ran a few tests and they said the tests were inconclusive. The problem got worse and infection set in. They had to give him anti-biotics for the infection before doing an operation. After a week in the hospital, they told him they didn’t have a surgeon available to take it out. He came home and is now trying to get the procedure done locally. Can we say “rationed” care for Veterans? What a joke! And Obama and minions like to brag that Verterans healthcare is very good.
The VA has been cutting back on healthcare for a very long time. My father retired from the Marine Corps in 1972, so yes, I actually do know something about the VA and what it does and does not cover. My husband retired from the Army about 4 years ago, btw. I also know all about Tricare, which has been around for a quite some time, also. The health care benefits promised to veterans has been both horrifyingly inept and occasionally good for the past 40 years. It’s a crap shoot based on where you go to the doctor. You can’t blame this problem on any ONE congress or president. It has been a mess that no one thought to clean up, because none of them actually care.
jw, I wasn’t talking about whether this procedure was covered or not. I am talking about availability of a surgeon for a surgery that is one of the simplest surgeries done in today’s hospitals. My buddy could die from this if his infected gall bladder is not removed. I am glad he is taking steps to get this done locally. I don’t think he will be visiting the VA again anytime soon.
I used the word “cover” when I should have said “available services”. Different VA hospitals have different available services. The one in Lexington has different surgeons than the one in Louisville. Same with specialists. Again, some people get lucky and the closest VA can help them. Others have to travel or go outside the VA.
If you want to have availability of a surgeon, you have to have funding, which means…wait for it…governement spending! That evil governement spending that those damn libtards favor. The VA has had many problems due to insufficient funding, as well as lack of proper oversight (which means those evil regulations that supposedly kill jobs – we can’t have any of that).
That being said, I agree with jw that it can depend on your location. I’ve had good experience with the VA. The only reason I get healthcare coverage through my employer is to provide coverage for my wife; I don’t even use it myself.
Exactly DCMS, my dad has had good luck with the VA, but my husband hasn’t. It sucks. Seems to me there was a movie in the late 70s or maybe in the 80s based on the health care provided by VA doctors. Does anyone else remember that?
What ever happened to the separation of church and state??
Birth Control and maternity have been included in many employer plans for years. Everyone of every age and gender has been paying for that coverage for years.
What I don’t understand is why do ACA bashers want to pay for the expensive emergency room care that the uninsured currently receive now?? So many conditions are preventable if treated early…but by the time they are diagnosed in the emergency room they are very expensive – amputations – diaylsis – etc.
The curren system is unsustainable. Uninsured are growing number. Medicare number is growing as the population ages. Medicaid numbers growing as the wages drop and poverty increases. The voluntary market will soon be the smallest segment in the current health care system.
ACA is a way to keep the current insurance carriers in operation in a similar fashion to the current system. To keep in sustainable.
SL – Seems to me that with the premiums still soaring – we still are being charged for it. Not much has changed; has it? The whole ACA is about Obama socializing this country as well as our healthcare. The folks who make more money are paying for those who make less or like to sit on their butts and collect entilements. Europe has these plans in place and they aren’t looking pretty good these days and that’s exactly where we are headed – to hell in a hand basket. Obama wants the redistrubution of wealth and that is exactly what he’s doing with healthcare and entitlments. Where do you suppose the money is coming for the subsidies? From us taxpayers. “I will not increase the deficit by one penny for healthcare.” Isn’t that another Obama lie? How you people can still trust anything that comes out of this man’s mouth is beyound me. If his lips are moving he’s lying.
Always, it is amazing at the lengths some Progressive bloggers will go to try to justify this tragedy. The serial liar in the White House has them all brainwashed and they are eager lemmings to jump into the pit with him. I had to laugh at seeing the numbers for the great State of Nebraska, the recipient of the Cornhusker kickback received by the now infamous Ben Nelson. Rates have gone up 74% for Obamacare. I can see Nelson saying to himself, what have I done here? I thought this was the Affordable Care Act. What is affordable about this to my constituents?
Always, I would have liked to be a fly in the wall when the 15 Democratic Senators visited the White House yesterday to meet with the President. They are panicking now that the roll out has been such a disaster and know they will get the third degree from their constituents when they have to run in 14. Rates skyrocketing, people losing their coverage, no working website is not much to run on next year.
Did it occur to you that those Blue states will have opened their own state exchanges which are running well. It’s mostly the red states who opted out. Nose. Cutoff. Face. Spite.
And the Blue States with exchanges are enrolling mostly Medicaid Celtica, not the vaunted ACA. How much will all these Medicaid people end up costing the taxpayers?
They probably hired Americans to get the web sites up and running.
So Celtica, one of your vaunted Blue States, Oregon has not enrolled one person and their site is non functioning. How do you explain that? Did they hire the same geek firm as the Feds?
SI, before any of this crap came about, I was paying $722 a month for me & wife with a $1K. I am now paying over $1500 with a $5K ded.
How is this better?
FFA, I saw a good one this morning on the internet. You know what you have when you put The IRS together? THEIRS!
Dear SL – Stop making sense!
Celtica, please explain to me how this is better? If BC was already included and all other points you made were already there, how is 2x the premiums better?
How are people better off that are losing their jobs because the business can not afford this spike in rates? How are people better off when they have their hours slashed all in the name of OBama care?
How are we better off sending $650 M to a Canadian company that gave us a crap web site?
Always Amazed — Agent,
And yet the votes of VA who normally vote for a Republican governor if there is a Democratic president (and vice versa), voted in a Democratic Governor — and maybe the entire Democratic slate. Go figure.
You guys better come up with a better political platform that whining about Obamacare.
You can’t fix stupid.
Always Amazed – so true — but thank goodness the adults in the GOP are finding a way to circumnavigate the tea party stupidity so we can get back to center.
Actually Celtica, ye of little facts. Northern Virginia is heavily settled by Federal Workers who like their gravy train. Obamacare nearly won the election for Kuchinelli. I think had he concentrated on the Obamacare nightmare, he could have pulled it off in this purple state. By the way, the blue state of New Jersey re-elected a Republican Governor. He is certainly not ideal and is mostly RINO, but he would surely end up being a better option for President than the one we have now.
Northern Virginia is also home to the heavily GOP populated Pentagon. I guess they like their gravy train too. That, and the Tea Party candidate blew another election. The Tea Party couldn’t even get their candidate past the primary in southern Alabama. In southern Alabama — of all places.
If what you mean by RINO is someone who is willing work with the other side, yeah, I guess Christie is a RINO. And he is electable in a blue state.
You’re in insurance (presumably). See a trend here?
It must be nice living in make-believe land.
Always Amazed:
Let’s recap, shall we? Obama was elected twice, the ACA is law, blessed by the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Senate is Democratic. Seems pretty real to me.
What part of make believe is that? Rand Paul’s speeches?
Lets Re- Cap – 17 mil people targeted. 18Mil being cancelled. 75 Mil (on group) at risk. $650Mil spent on a web site that don’t work sent OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
You can keep what you got – a flat out LIE to 18,000,000 people with a potential to another 75,000,000. I didn’t know we had that many fats cats out there. Premiums going up x 2
People losing their jobs. Employers cutting hours dropping group plans.
Again I ask, how are we as a nation better off?
Can I get a one way ticket?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN41__zOmXQ
Yes, it is true. Criminals can become and probably are navigators who are taking an individuals most personal information to apply to the ACA. Nice going Democrats. Just gives you the warm and fuzzies doesn’t it? And as far as I know IL doesn’t have such a requirement since this can be state specific.
I just have one question: When are you Libs going to admit that we were all lied too? You can’t keep your plan or your doctor IF you like them. Obama is out there doing damage control and trying to back pedal on everything he’s been telling us since 2008. Now he’d doing a song and dance and digging his grave deeper and deeper. Transparency – what a joke. Either Obama had no clue has to how the ACA was going to be implemented or he bold face lied to every single American in this country. Don’t you think that his advisors would have told me that he couldn’t make such a false claim? No, I think that IF we all knew the truth there would have been a lot more backlash from even you liberals on the ACA. Elections have consequences.
Always, As we have been saying, Federal Navigators are not vetted for criminal history. Sebelius was grilled yesterday by the Senate and she admitted that they aren’t vetted and felons could be Navigators in their system. Hello ID Theft! How many people will want to give their personal information to a possible felon Navigator? I think a lot of people will be reluctant when they know this. I think Celtica should call them up and give her Social and bank info and see what happens to it.
The truth hurts now doesn’t it?
Always Amazed – Yes do tell…how is it living there?
I know Agent, I know. I remember posting this very information back before October that criminal background checks weren’t going to be done and Libby and probably Celtica as well mocked me for it. Well, they are pretty darn quiet today. Not a peep out of each of them. Even the FBI has stated that identity theft is a huge cause for concern and I think they would know what they’re talking about.
Not quiet, Amazed. Just tired of hearing all the Republican bullshit. You guys are the most negative, fearful, and paranoid people I know.
First of all, identity theft is a big problem EVERYWHERE. Second of all, criminals do not automatically equal identity theives. Third of all, can we wait until it actually happens and THEN wring our hands and run around in circles about it?
Sl – living where?
In make-believe land. Although the right seems to live in some “the sky is falling, the sky is falling” land.
Keep grasping at straws, Libby. You’ve become very amusing. You can’t even come clean on agreeing that Obama’s been lying to us all since 2008. The ACA has blown up in his face and “what I meant was” BS! PEROID! And now employer based plans aren’t safe either from being canceled. Lies, lies, lies. It must be nice to live in fantasy land with rainbows and unicorns. I just don’t understand how you all cannot admit that it was all a lies and that also goes for the Benghazi “video”, the NSA, Fast & Furious and on and on. If Obama’s lips are moving he’s lying. If this were Bush trying to back peddle the ACA you’d be in your glory so don’t give me your liberal BS. You have no ground to stand on this issue. Obama’s been lying all throughout his presidency and there’s no going back now. He can’t recant anything that he said in the past – thank goodness for YouTube! PERIOD.
I bet if you had to sign up for the ACA you’d have second thoughts of doing so on such an unsecure website. Yes, credit fraud has been around for a long time but why make it any easier out there for these folks? The ACA just gave them a huge boost and even the FBI thinks so. All we can say is “We told you so!” Ha!
I don’t know if he lied or misspoke because I don’t know what’s in his heart. And neither do you. I know they specifically put the grandfather clause in the ACA so people could keep their plans. Did he know the insurance carriers were going to do what they could to get around it? I don’t know. If not, he was certainly naive to say the least.
If he lied, he’s a son of a bitch. Is that better? I know you hate it when I bring up Bush but I’m convinced he lied about WMD’s. I have no proof, but I “know” it. You feel the same about Obama and the ACA. So, I understand.
And as far as “All we can say is “We told you so!” Ha!” That’s a pretty sorry retort when so many people are being impacted. But you want to be sure we know you told us so and are laughing about it.
Wake up Libby. He lied 39 times in front of the country PERIOD! You should know what is in his heart by now. Progressive Socialism for this country.
Libby, while sitting on the waiting room during my wifes’ “surgery” Procedure late morning into early afternoon, he was informed of this (Per the Daily Hearld) somewhere in 2010. He continued to spit out his lies. The article stated he is working within the frame work of the law to “change it” so we don’t need any more legislation.
The Chicago Tribune didn’t mention any of it.
Also, Dominicks ( A large Grocery Chain) is closing up. 5600 people hitting the unemployment line just in time for the holidays. Merry x Mass to them folks! After the Holiday workers get laid off in the retail sector, the .01% jump in the unemployment rate reported today is going to jump again… I am dreading to see what is going to happen come the Jan figures…
So FFA, My friend who was a veteran and eligible for VA treatment nearly died from a serious gall bladder infection that the VA couldn’t treat and didn’t have a surgeon available, so he came back to get it done locally. What should have been a routine gall bladder surgery took 6 hours since they had to treat all the complications of infection and blockages. He did survive and should recover and I don’t think he will go back to the VA anytime soon.
Is there any one left in the forum that supports this thing? Libby came off that position. JW has stated so.
Is it just Celtica & Cap?
Might I add that Badger care in Wis was a failure. For those not familiar, Badger Care was much like Obama Care with out the massive price tag on a web site that don’t work and respected the religious side of things. It was driving the state broke so Walker got rid of it and now the budget is balanced. Walker, may I remind you, is the only person in the history of Recall Elections that retained his position.
So FFA, how did you like that apology that wasn’t an apology for lying and deceiving the people and for having the most dysfunctional and expensive website in American history? I think more information will be coming forth that the powers that be had all this planned for the past 3 years. The way to get 7 million to sign up for Obamacare is to make sure they lose the coverage they liked. The thing he didn’t count on was the monumental screw up by the website designers. He thought it would sail right through and they would get a million the first week. Oops! A couple of hundred at best. Medicaid seems to be where a vast majority have gone in the State Exchanges. Why? I thought this was the Affordable Care Act and he was going to save families $2,500 per year. Instead, the cost is doubling for many.
Agent – Per the CMA the other night – Proudly serving 6.
Estimated cost of web over $650Mil to serve 6. A great investment in America!!!!
Delaware got $4million for their program and administrators and they enrolled 4 in a month. How is that for efficiency?
Agent, its working great….
I am trying to learn how to speak OBama. How am I doing?
BTW, pure Bull @#$t. Just another Illinois politician. Spin, spin and if we don’t like the second spin, spin again.
FFA, Cap is for it because he doesn’t have it and he is not affected by it personally. I wonder how he would feel if he had an Individual policy covering himself and family and it was cancelled like millions of other Americans. So he goes on the exchange and oops, the premium is double for a higher deductible and higher out of pocket and by the way, he couldn’t keep the doctor for himself and kids. He had better hope the Group coverage he has doesn’t tank like it is predicted in 14.
Agent, A few days ago, I posted the question if anyone in this forum is still on board with this ACA.
NOT ONE HAS SAID YES. Not even cap or ron has spoken in favor of this. Looks like we have found common ground. Not through debating skills, but because it is exposed to be not workable.
I truly believe that if all the regulars in this forum would sit down at the table, it would not be pretty, but we as professionals would get the job done correctly and not send Millions of American dollars out of the country like Romney, oops, I mean Obama did.
So, I’ll leave for the week end with this question –
Does anyone in this forum still support OBama?
I also have noticed the left leaning on this site getting quieter and quieter. I at least expected Ron to blame the Republicans for this monumental mess or to try to deflect attention from it and say the economy is great. What can they do to wag the dog a little more? Immigration Reform and an Iran deal where we are trying to soft pedal sanctions to get a deal with them is the new tack. Even the French was against Kerry’s proposal. Wow, where did these clowns come from?
FFA, I don’t know if you have seen Kirsten Powers on Fox commenting on issues before, but she is one of the Democrats they have to oppose the Conservative commentators. She has been singing the praises of Obamacare since it was passed and has argued with several of the conservatives on several programs. A strange thing happened to her. Since she is just a contributor and not an employee of Fox, she had to buy her own insurance on the Individual market. She just got her cancellation notice. When she went online to get a quote, the premium was double what she was paying, had much higher deductibles, out of pocket expense since she was one of the young crowd. She is absolutely livid now for having to subsidize those that are getting it for free or getting subsidies. She also feels betrayed just like the American People. I don’t think we will see her singing any praises of Obama anytime soon.
agent, I picked up your guy Williams in a trade this week. He was the throw in to even off the numbers. Is he any good?
Yes, he is good. Played for Baylor with RG111 and had a good career there. He is developing and should get better and better.
I left him and Sporals sitting on the bench last night. Bone Head move cost me my game and now its looking like I got to win out.
Ran into the Manning Buz Saw again. Two time this guy has gone above and beyond to destroy my week.
You are so amusing! You don’t know what’s in his heart? Try him knowing what’s in the ACA! His heart has nothing to do with this down fall. You really are grasping at straws. Doesn’t know what is in his heart. Too funny – thanks for the laugh.
You did hear that Syria now has/had WDS – where do you suppose those came from? Humm? Open your liberal eyes for goodness sakes.
We tried to warn you that the ACA would be a disaster. You wouldn’t listen. I do feel bad for all those who have lost their insurance polices so don’t you go pointing your boney finger at me. I’m laughing at you and your ever believing trust that the ACA was going to save the world and everyone everywhere was going to have affordable health insurance. However no one was told about the price they would have to pay in increased premium or of them loosing their “sub-standard” plans. Oh, and their doctors and the hospitals they once went too as well. See how you liberals try to spin things and create a false scenario. Nice try; didn’t work.
Amazed – When did I ever say “the ACA was going to save the world and everyone everywhere was going to have affordable health insurance.”? I AM for everyone having access to affordable health insurance &/or healthcare. I would have thought everyone would have taken that position, but I guess that just makes me a loony toon liberal.
I’d rather be that than a hardened, fearful, judgemental person like many on this blog.
Libby, if he would have used the old school definition of Affordable meaning premium reduction with no coverage reduction, I would have been on board with this too. He took away my freedom of choice.
There was access to Health Ins for the Pre X People on IL, IN and WI. Cant speak for the rest of the country. He could have worked within them systems with out causing massive rate hike and large increases in OOP expenses along with a broken promise to over 12 Mil People as reported on the news this AM with a potential of another 75Mil people on groups. $650Mil + on a web site that don’t work? He could have used the Professional agency force that controls 90% of the Health Market to work with. All we would have had to do – web site wise – was get the IRS portion taken care of. All he tried to do was create a Quick Rater for Health Insurance. He could have used the existing Quick Raters out there. Instead, he sent how many Millions of out tax dollars out of the country. In my mind, he has done the same thing Romney did that you and all the other Dems blast him for. In that respect, he is just like the man you voted against.
Libby – you can be loony but then can’t we all. Obama promised that everyone was going to have affordable health insurance and family premiums would reduce as much as or by $2500 in premium a year. Did he not say those words? I’m sure I can find the video via YouTube if you like. The problem with you liberals is you believed him. I don’t think any of the dems even read the ACA before they passed it – think about it – how much misinformation was given by Obama and Pelosi on the ACA? Quite a lot so either they were lying about what was in it or they had no clue what was in it. Millions of people are going to loose their “sub-standard” (just love that spin) plans. I don’t think that is what any of you expected. I was petty surprised myself to be honest. And after the government shut-down I’m sure the all the Democrats were just high-fiving and fist bumping each others fits in victory and then the bottom fell out and they all had egg on their faces when the ACA rolled out way ahead of its time to even run smoothly. And now with credit fraud being an issue the whole thing looks even worse.
I’m not going to beat you up anymore over this issue. As FFA said you did mention in another forum (I must have missed that post – it’s hard to keep up with every single one) that you wanted this wiped off the books. Sadly, there is no turning back now and it’s only going to get wore once the employer plans implode. This has really angered a lot of people.
I agree with FFA, this insulting to our intelligence. Obama’s apology was a joke there was no emotion behind it. He’s not sorry – he’s pissed things didn’t right and I’d be pissed too but he didn’t apologize for all the misinformation that he’d put out there but that’s what makes him Obama and that’s the apology people needed to hear. Nothing seems to stick to him and he gets away with his all his lies over and over again. As the Who once said and I quote “We won’t get fooled again! No! No!”
Always, Libby has expressed disappointment with Obamacare, but is a fan of single payer government insurance. What a crock considering how inefficient and badly managed this is, not to mention the cost to the consumer. What strikes me about the so called apology is that he seems to think that when the website is fixed, everything will be fine. It won’t and the people have figured that out, but he and his minions and true believers think it will. Real people are getting hurt on this tragedy and someone needs to be held accountable. We want action to fix this, not flowery speeches and promises that are broken.
Amazed, she has stated in another forum that she wants this things wiped off the books.
Only Cap & Celtica (maybe a few more) continue to preach that this is good. Cap and myself are the only ones with a premium reduction. I would assume that cap is on a max rated group or was on some form of I Chip as that is the only demographic that I have been able to pin point with a premium reduction.
With ofnbamas bull …. apology on the news this am, even his most adamant supporters have got to be scratching their heads. The fence sitters have got to be tired of his …. lies. Its gone past spin… Its at the down right insulting to our intelligence point.. At least the entire country knows what you and I live with every day.
FFA, Obama knows that there are a lot of low information voters out there who will give him a pass on the lies and deceptions and will say he “Apologized” so drop it. Hey, life is great in Obamaland. The website will be fixed and everyone will have affordable healthcare, right? If you have a family, they will save you $2,500. Don’t pay any attention to those high deductibles and high out of pocket expenses. Just don’t ever get sick or file a claim and you will be fine.
Don’t pay any attention to the man behind the curtain!
Just in from Forbes FFA. They are predicting a repeal will be done before the mid terms. It will be the Democrats doing it instead of the Republicans. They are worried they will be thrown out and are getting desperate. They should be for passing something they didn’t read or understand that is the biggest tragedy ever passed by Congress. I think they will be thrown out anyway since people are tired of this nonsense. RINOS should also be shown the door.
Some good ol fashioned mansplaining from Bob, I dont know if its possible to be anymore clueless. Gotta love the life begins at erection crowd, always good for a laugh.
Dr – Not Erection… Injection..
FFA, Did you see the ad for the Obama Dental Plan? It has a picture of him smiling with no teeth.
I just thought of this, and it really is a sad thought. For all those people who think their baby making days are over and don’t want maternity coverage, you may want to re-think if you have a daughter.
My daughter has 3 friends (in high school) who are having babies. Those girls are covered on their parents’ health insurance.
Many of you probably think this is a bad reason to keep maternity benefits (or birth control for your daughters), and I can respect that opinion. I’m just throwing this out there because my daughter and I discussed this last night and it’s on my mind. (I’ve used those pregnancies as teaching moments with my daughter)
JW, wont apply to me. My kids are too old. Looking like I will be putting my gr kids on the plan. Strangely – no extra premium for three gr kids. Need to have guardianship…
But no extra charge for 3 more???
When my daughter came home pregnant before she graduated HS, my insurance did cover that. So, again, whats the point.e
FFA, some of the goofy low information voters applying are putting their Spouse on as children per what the companies are saying. I am sure they are scratching their head on what to do with these people. I think they must be Walmartians.
Agent, my friend who is a navagator actually has a booth set up at a Walmart in the Chicagoland area in the evenigns a few nights a week to help folks sign up. How is that for service?
Walmart… You mean China Mart?
So Always, does she just have a bunch of paper apps to fill out and send in or is she trying to do it on a computer? I understand the paper apps sent also have to go into a qeue to be entered into the website that doesn’t work. That may be getting thick by now so they will have to hire more people to enter the info.
More Obama Speak from BCBS –
“The final rule applies to plan years (or policy years in the individual market) beginning on or after July 1, 2014. Until the final rule becomes applicable, plans and issuers are instructed to continue to comply with the provisions of the interim final rule. The final rule incorporates clarifications issued by the federal agencies since the issuance of the interim final rule, and provides some new clarifications. The final rule also contains a technical amendment relating to external review with respect to the multi-state plan program administered by the Office of Personnel Management.”
Final Rule… Interim Final Rule. I guess final don’t mean final any more.
Good Obamaspeak FFA. It is all clear as mud.
Agent said- “I wonder how this country ever survived for 200 years without mandating birth control be provided by employers.”
Agent, you are correct. To me it is a matter of choice. You know the libtards always like the term “Choice”. As far as I am concerned, If you want the healthcare system to pay for it, buy a plan and pay for birth control. But If you don’t want to buy it or you don’t want to pay for maternity care or pediatrics, or drub addiction/ rehab or metal illness or Viagra or whatever, you should have a choice and not buy it. That way the premium is reflective of the risk and you buy what you are exposed to. Gee, that sounds like the basic concept of insurance! You would not buy Workers Comp if you had no employees or no exposure, why would you have to pay for birth control pills if you have no exposure and no need?
It is all about entitlement and the left crowd wants everything handed to them on a silver platter no matter what the cost. They aren’t responsible like we were when we were younger and wives were in child bearing years. A good plan would have some coverage options, but the options they have are deductibles, out of pocket maximums, but no give in the mandated coverage.
BTW- Rueters reported that by year end and because of the Unaffordable Healthcare Act, that there will be more people without healthcare insurance than when he took office. Not to mention the cost increases. Why, Because of the 15 million people who are having their insurance cancelled, the failed website fiasco and the fact that the majority of the 50K that have signed up have been Medicaid recipients.
Way to go Liar in Charge!
If you think this is bad Sargeant, wait until the Group business hits the doldrums in 2014. I agree that the country will have far less citizens covered by the time the dust clears. I thought it was about getting more covered, but it is doing just the opposite. This is the mother of all ill conceived bills.
Well Sargeant, when you have the former liar in charge telling the current liar in charge that he needs to honor his promise, things are really unraveling. No way to spin it out anymore. Even Diane Feinstein of California, formerly one of the biggest promoters has heard from some of her million constituents who have lost their coverage and now says it is time to fix it. This should be an interesting week in the halls of Congress. They are having the IT geek testify on the website and the lack of security on it.