Having lived in farm communities I know that some of those “subsidies” are paid so that they WON’T grow any food, or that they WON’T sell their milk, etc.
Destro – some farmers are paid not to produce food which I think is morally wrong. I fully support sending food to those countries outside the U.S. who are not able to grow enough for their own tables. However, it seems that you support other countries who are on dependent on US food but not American who are dependent for healthcare needs -??? Please think about this.
At what point did I say I supported sending food to foreign countries (many of which who hate us and continually spawn terrorist scumbags)? And when did I say I was against Americans with healthcare needs?
I just pointed out that we subsidize farmers because they perform an absolutely vital role in our society; feeding it.
Destro: You stated that farmers produce food that feed the world. One might infer that these are American farmers who feed non Americans. You also indicated low income Americans produce debt and dependence. Not that I have anything against sweeping generalizations but that also infers a certain distain for any of their healthcare needs.
March 4, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Destro says:
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Disdain*
I AM one of those low-income Americans. Luckily for the rest of you, I find it a point of pride that I’m not leeching off of the state and pumping out babies for the state to raise.
March 4, 2015 at 3:15 pm
Destro says:
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Also, I have healthcare needs but I can’t afford healthcare. That doesn’t mean I think I’m entitled to it or that I think other people ought to be on the hook for my decisions.
March 4, 2015 at 4:00 pm
Bill says:
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That’s great Destro. Just don’t be going to the emergency room when you need medical care if you don’t have health insurance or don’t have the cash to pay for the service yourself. If you do, I suppose that would mean you feel entitled to the receive the medical care.
March 4, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Agent says:
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Hey Destro, if we didn’t devote so much corn to produce ethanol, we would have more food to consume and sell abroad and the price of gasoline would decline and our cars would be more efficient and get better mileage.
March 4, 2015 at 6:07 pm
Celtica says:
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Destro, I am truly sorry that you do not have healthcare and are in need of it. That is a tough spot to be in. I also think your pride in not seeking coverage though the ACA will only hurt you in the long run. I know several die hard Republicans who hate Obama but sure love Obamacare for themselves. You don’t have to like Obama to be able to use the ACA for your own health needs.
March 4, 2015 at 6:32 pm
Destro says:
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I would sign up for the ACA but the problem is, the cheapest possible plan available for me (catastrophic, 45% yearly income deductible)is still way more than I can afford. I don’t qualify for the tax subsidies because the company I work for offers a health plan that would cost me 1/3rd of my annual pay, for a plan that I also can not afford.
March 4, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Get your facts straight says:
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Those “rich American farmers” are few and far between, and many of those have worked hard their whole life to get where they are.
So you are upset with the farmers but have no complaints about subsidies going to arrogant liberal universities run by rich people who take advantage of their relationships with liberal politicians? Oh that’s right, it is the banks fault that the cost of colleges go up.
Dear Me (gotta love that opening). No, I do not support subsidies to arrogant universities, be it liberal or conservative. I do support funds to universities, but not if they are arrogant. That is just a tad too rich.
Dear Celtica, What is the difference between the government paying for and controlling everthing and communism? Why do you seem to have so much faith in goverment? On a side note, I sincerely appreciate how respectful you are in your dialogue.
Dear Me, (again), I don’t have that much faith in the government but on the whole I think the entire subsidiary structure needs to be reviewed. I have worked my entire adult life and had medical bennies through work but it is not as frightening a thought to lose my job and not be able to afford medical care since I can access coverage through the ACA. You know how it is with insurance people — you really don’t want these things to keep you awake at night.
I appreciate your civil tone as well in dialogue as well.
March 4, 2015 at 2:27 pm
KY jw says:
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I will probably regret this… So, me, what subsidies are going to arrogant liberal universities?
I honestly don’t have any clue what subsidies are paid to universities.
March 9, 2015 at 10:32 am
Destro says:
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Scott Walker recently caught Hell because he is planning on defunding the UW system $300 million. What isn’t being told about that story is that the UW system has $600+ million of unaccounted state funds over the past 10 years.
March 9, 2015 at 1:49 pm
FFA says:
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GO SCOTT… Making them hard decisions to keep the budget balanced. Mr Rauner is paying attention. Seemingly using the same blue print.
March 4, 2015 at 5:22 pm
Dave says:
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All subsidies bad. Including Solyndra, wind farms, bio-fuels, etc. You make no sense.
“The Affordable Care Act will hand out $22 billion in credits”
Where does that come from…..you guessed it Libtards…higher taxes.
You guys are too stupid to know you are stupid. You hate the big bad insurance companies so bad you just handed them another 22 billion. Lean forward America!!
I haven’t been able to grasp why Obama could make 30 or 40 arbitrary changes to the ACA but couldn’t fix this one.
same for the medicaid gap that has caused so much problem. why wasn’t the lower threshold for the ACA move down so there wasn’t a gap? he could have fixed these two little glitches just like he did the others, couldn’t he?
I know, I know. You want single payer! Like FEMA right. That’s been run to perfection right? How did you like the new $250 a year tax, I mean “fee” that’s not calculated in their premium increase because it’s not premium it’s a fee?
You Libtards get it yet? Your government is screwing you. wtfu
KY, it shouldn’t take that long, but the Supreme Court has never been speed merchants deciding cases. They may have to read the entire law again (2,700 pages) and several thousand additional regulations to make a ruling. My guess is they will allow it just like they said the law was constitutional. They may come up with a typical milquetoast reason on intent and let it go. This is what happens when you have a totally partisan law passed and no one read it before voting on it.
And so the long road to bringing down this obomination and replacing it with something fair and affordable and which actually brings down the cost of healthcare begins. Maybe something with bipartisan support and a dose of tort reform. Unlike the garbage we now have.
Dave, the law was passed in 2010 and there is still so much rancor about it. Have we ever had a law passed in this country that divided the country like this one? Progressives think they are so smart and they are actually stupid. Then, they call the voters too stupid to get their message. How high and mighty of them. The voters do get it now after they have seen what is in it and it stinks to high heaven.
“Have we ever had a law passed in this country that divided the country like this one?” How about abolishing slavery where brother was fighting against brother in the American Civil War?
I’m pretty sure the civil war was decided in a Union vs Confederacy stickball match held in Gettysburg. It was neck and neck but what eventually won it over for the North was good ol’ Honest Abe’s unusually long arms which added 1,250 lbs of additional torque leading to the Grand Slam heard round with world, or as Abe noted “Four score!”
Little known fact, it was the first ever grand slam and led to the naming of the “Grand Old party,” or GOP as we know it today.
March 5, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Agent says:
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Destro, Lincoln was a Republican. I am not for sure, but he may have been one of the last great Republicans elected in Illinois until last election when they put in a Republican governor over the disastrous Quinn.
March 6, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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Agent – if you think Lincoln was one of the last great Republicans, I think you should know he was considered a Moderate Republican and not a Conservative Republican. Do you consider yourself a Moderate Republican like Lincoln or do you identify as a Conservative Republican?
March 5, 2015 at 10:30 am
Destro says:
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What’s funny is that when Gruber made the “stupidity of the American voter” comment was that the stupid ones that he was talking about were the people who supported the PPACA, not conservatives who correctly predicted the negative consequences of it.
You are right Destro. The law was strictly partisan with lying, deception, back room deals, coercion of Blue Dogs, pay offs like Cornhusker kick backs and the Louisiana Purchase. Amazing that the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and they had so much trouble getting it passed so they could ram it down the voters throat. Then, they blamed Republicans for being obstructionists when the Republicans couldn’t stop anything from going through.
Hey Rosenblatt, Any Republican from any era is better than a Democrat from the same era. I don’t think they put a handle on Moderate or Conservatives in his era. It is interesting that a Republican ended slavery and not a Democrat. Call me a Conservative to the nth degree. I do not identify with McCain, McConnell, Graham, Boehner and some others since they are RINO’s. It is a good thing we have a number of new Republicans coming up in the near future to take over for the status quo guys. I really like Scott Walker because he has backbone and has actually run a state instead of being an empty suit Community Organizer.
“A recent analysis by the health care firm Avalere found that, if the court, rules against the administration, those who would lose their subsides as a result would see premiums increase an average 225 percent.” AKA the taxpayers portion.
Amazed, their premiums would not increase at all, who pays that premium would change. As it is now, we, the taxpayers, are paying a portion of their premium.
Hey Always, do you know what the term “Constitutional Avoidance” means? That seems to be a term being thrown around to rule on this case by the Supreme Court. At first blush, it seems that the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says. We may be now in a period of a nation of men rather than a nation of laws.
Seriously, Agent – if you’re going to throw around phrases to sound smart, the least you could do is understand the meaning before you try to explain it to us.
“At first blush, it seems that the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says.”
WRONG. What Constitutional Avoidance means means is if there are two ways to interpret something (plainly constitutional or questionable constitutionality) the SC will rule on the “plainly constitutional” interpretation.
Saying “…the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says” is 100% false. That phrase means the SC will ALWAYS rule in conjunction with the plainly constitutional interpretation; that is 100% in-line with what the Constitution says and 0% in-line with your belief of them “ruling on what they say and not the Constitution.”
Knowledge is power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constitutional Avoidance: In practice, what this often means is that if the Supreme Court is faced with two possible interpretations of a statute, one of which is plainly constitutional, and the other of which is of questionable constitutionality, the court will interpret the statute as having the plainly constitutional meaning
March 5, 2015 at 12:55 pm
Destro says:
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That average seems low to me, when I was looking at the plans, without subsidy the monthly premium was $21 for one of the silver plans. Without subsidy it was $274.
Only $274 per month without a subsidy? That seems fairly reasonable. Less than a car payment for many people and far less than a mortgage or rent. Given the expenses you can incur due to a health problem, that is a small price to pay. But oh, wait… If you don’t have health insurance and can’t pay for health care you simply go to the emergency room. The doctors at the emergency room must treat you even if you cannot pay. Those of us who can pay, whether through health insurance or simply having the cash, end up paying for those who cannot pay through higher charges from hospitals and doctors (which leads to higher health insurance premiums and/or reduced benefits). You see, you may not be able to pay but someone has to. People complain about having to subsidize other peoples healthcare through ACA, but the reality is that you already are! The ACA just appears to be easier to quantify since information about subsidis is readily available…oh and their is the dirty word of tax that gets thrown around.
Obamacare healthcare subsidies for low income Americans bad.
Farm subsidiesfor rich American farmers good.
Makes complete sense.
http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=48000
Farmers produce food that feeds the world. Low income Americans produce debt and dependence.
Having lived in farm communities I know that some of those “subsidies” are paid so that they WON’T grow any food, or that they WON’T sell their milk, etc.
Destro – some farmers are paid not to produce food which I think is morally wrong. I fully support sending food to those countries outside the U.S. who are not able to grow enough for their own tables. However, it seems that you support other countries who are on dependent on US food but not American who are dependent for healthcare needs -??? Please think about this.
At what point did I say I supported sending food to foreign countries (many of which who hate us and continually spawn terrorist scumbags)? And when did I say I was against Americans with healthcare needs?
I just pointed out that we subsidize farmers because they perform an absolutely vital role in our society; feeding it.
Destro: You stated that farmers produce food that feed the world. One might infer that these are American farmers who feed non Americans. You also indicated low income Americans produce debt and dependence. Not that I have anything against sweeping generalizations but that also infers a certain distain for any of their healthcare needs.
Disdain*
I AM one of those low-income Americans. Luckily for the rest of you, I find it a point of pride that I’m not leeching off of the state and pumping out babies for the state to raise.
Also, I have healthcare needs but I can’t afford healthcare. That doesn’t mean I think I’m entitled to it or that I think other people ought to be on the hook for my decisions.
That’s great Destro. Just don’t be going to the emergency room when you need medical care if you don’t have health insurance or don’t have the cash to pay for the service yourself. If you do, I suppose that would mean you feel entitled to the receive the medical care.
Hey Destro, if we didn’t devote so much corn to produce ethanol, we would have more food to consume and sell abroad and the price of gasoline would decline and our cars would be more efficient and get better mileage.
Destro, I am truly sorry that you do not have healthcare and are in need of it. That is a tough spot to be in. I also think your pride in not seeking coverage though the ACA will only hurt you in the long run. I know several die hard Republicans who hate Obama but sure love Obamacare for themselves. You don’t have to like Obama to be able to use the ACA for your own health needs.
I would sign up for the ACA but the problem is, the cheapest possible plan available for me (catastrophic, 45% yearly income deductible)is still way more than I can afford. I don’t qualify for the tax subsidies because the company I work for offers a health plan that would cost me 1/3rd of my annual pay, for a plan that I also can not afford.
Those “rich American farmers” are few and far between, and many of those have worked hard their whole life to get where they are.
So you are upset with the farmers but have no complaints about subsidies going to arrogant liberal universities run by rich people who take advantage of their relationships with liberal politicians? Oh that’s right, it is the banks fault that the cost of colleges go up.
Dear Me (gotta love that opening). No, I do not support subsidies to arrogant universities, be it liberal or conservative. I do support funds to universities, but not if they are arrogant. That is just a tad too rich.
Dear Celtica, What is the difference between the government paying for and controlling everthing and communism? Why do you seem to have so much faith in goverment? On a side note, I sincerely appreciate how respectful you are in your dialogue.
Both are instances of “Statism.”
Dear Me, (again), I don’t have that much faith in the government but on the whole I think the entire subsidiary structure needs to be reviewed. I have worked my entire adult life and had medical bennies through work but it is not as frightening a thought to lose my job and not be able to afford medical care since I can access coverage through the ACA. You know how it is with insurance people — you really don’t want these things to keep you awake at night.
I appreciate your civil tone as well in dialogue as well.
I will probably regret this… So, me, what subsidies are going to arrogant liberal universities?
ALLLLLLL THE SUBSIDIES!
I honestly don’t have any clue what subsidies are paid to universities.
Scott Walker recently caught Hell because he is planning on defunding the UW system $300 million. What isn’t being told about that story is that the UW system has $600+ million of unaccounted state funds over the past 10 years.
GO SCOTT… Making them hard decisions to keep the budget balanced. Mr Rauner is paying attention. Seemingly using the same blue print.
All subsidies bad. Including Solyndra, wind farms, bio-fuels, etc. You make no sense.
“The Affordable Care Act will hand out $22 billion in credits”
Where does that come from…..you guessed it Libtards…higher taxes.
You guys are too stupid to know you are stupid. You hate the big bad insurance companies so bad you just handed them another 22 billion. Lean forward America!!
I haven’t been able to grasp why Obama could make 30 or 40 arbitrary changes to the ACA but couldn’t fix this one.
same for the medicaid gap that has caused so much problem. why wasn’t the lower threshold for the ACA move down so there wasn’t a gap? he could have fixed these two little glitches just like he did the others, couldn’t he?
I know, I know. You want single payer! Like FEMA right. That’s been run to perfection right? How did you like the new $250 a year tax, I mean “fee” that’s not calculated in their premium increase because it’s not premium it’s a fee?
You Libtards get it yet? Your government is screwing you. wtfu
Dear Jack: The real surprise is that you think being screwed by the government just started with Obamacare.
Carry on and remain calm.
No I didn’t.
Carry on and CWP.
He did reference FEMA.
I wish it wouldn’t take until June to get a ruling. I’m curious how this will be decided.
KY, it shouldn’t take that long, but the Supreme Court has never been speed merchants deciding cases. They may have to read the entire law again (2,700 pages) and several thousand additional regulations to make a ruling. My guess is they will allow it just like they said the law was constitutional. They may come up with a typical milquetoast reason on intent and let it go. This is what happens when you have a totally partisan law passed and no one read it before voting on it.
And so the long road to bringing down this obomination and replacing it with something fair and affordable and which actually brings down the cost of healthcare begins. Maybe something with bipartisan support and a dose of tort reform. Unlike the garbage we now have.
Dave, the law was passed in 2010 and there is still so much rancor about it. Have we ever had a law passed in this country that divided the country like this one? Progressives think they are so smart and they are actually stupid. Then, they call the voters too stupid to get their message. How high and mighty of them. The voters do get it now after they have seen what is in it and it stinks to high heaven.
“Have we ever had a law passed in this country that divided the country like this one?” How about abolishing slavery where brother was fighting against brother in the American Civil War?
I’m pretty sure the civil war was decided in a Union vs Confederacy stickball match held in Gettysburg. It was neck and neck but what eventually won it over for the North was good ol’ Honest Abe’s unusually long arms which added 1,250 lbs of additional torque leading to the Grand Slam heard round with world, or as Abe noted “Four score!”
Little known fact, it was the first ever grand slam and led to the naming of the “Grand Old party,” or GOP as we know it today.
Destro, Lincoln was a Republican. I am not for sure, but he may have been one of the last great Republicans elected in Illinois until last election when they put in a Republican governor over the disastrous Quinn.
Agent – if you think Lincoln was one of the last great Republicans, I think you should know he was considered a Moderate Republican and not a Conservative Republican. Do you consider yourself a Moderate Republican like Lincoln or do you identify as a Conservative Republican?
What’s funny is that when Gruber made the “stupidity of the American voter” comment was that the stupid ones that he was talking about were the people who supported the PPACA, not conservatives who correctly predicted the negative consequences of it.
You are right Destro. The law was strictly partisan with lying, deception, back room deals, coercion of Blue Dogs, pay offs like Cornhusker kick backs and the Louisiana Purchase. Amazing that the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and they had so much trouble getting it passed so they could ram it down the voters throat. Then, they blamed Republicans for being obstructionists when the Republicans couldn’t stop anything from going through.
Hey Rosenblatt, Any Republican from any era is better than a Democrat from the same era. I don’t think they put a handle on Moderate or Conservatives in his era. It is interesting that a Republican ended slavery and not a Democrat. Call me a Conservative to the nth degree. I do not identify with McCain, McConnell, Graham, Boehner and some others since they are RINO’s. It is a good thing we have a number of new Republicans coming up in the near future to take over for the status quo guys. I really like Scott Walker because he has backbone and has actually run a state instead of being an empty suit Community Organizer.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/04/supreme-court-arguments-end-in-key-obamacare-case/?intcmp=latestnews
“A recent analysis by the health care firm Avalere found that, if the court, rules against the administration, those who would lose their subsides as a result would see premiums increase an average 225 percent.” AKA the taxpayers portion.
Amazed, their premiums would not increase at all, who pays that premium would change. As it is now, we, the taxpayers, are paying a portion of their premium.
Wayne, Yes, I am aware.
Hey Always, do you know what the term “Constitutional Avoidance” means? That seems to be a term being thrown around to rule on this case by the Supreme Court. At first blush, it seems that the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says. We may be now in a period of a nation of men rather than a nation of laws.
Seriously, Agent – if you’re going to throw around phrases to sound smart, the least you could do is understand the meaning before you try to explain it to us.
“At first blush, it seems that the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says.”
WRONG. What Constitutional Avoidance means means is if there are two ways to interpret something (plainly constitutional or questionable constitutionality) the SC will rule on the “plainly constitutional” interpretation.
Saying “…the ruling may hinge on what they say rather than what the Constitution says” is 100% false. That phrase means the SC will ALWAYS rule in conjunction with the plainly constitutional interpretation; that is 100% in-line with what the Constitution says and 0% in-line with your belief of them “ruling on what they say and not the Constitution.”
Knowledge is power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constitutional Avoidance: In practice, what this often means is that if the Supreme Court is faced with two possible interpretations of a statute, one of which is plainly constitutional, and the other of which is of questionable constitutionality, the court will interpret the statute as having the plainly constitutional meaning
That average seems low to me, when I was looking at the plans, without subsidy the monthly premium was $21 for one of the silver plans. Without subsidy it was $274.
I meant to say WITH the subsidy the monthly premium was $21.
Only $274 per month without a subsidy? That seems fairly reasonable. Less than a car payment for many people and far less than a mortgage or rent. Given the expenses you can incur due to a health problem, that is a small price to pay. But oh, wait… If you don’t have health insurance and can’t pay for health care you simply go to the emergency room. The doctors at the emergency room must treat you even if you cannot pay. Those of us who can pay, whether through health insurance or simply having the cash, end up paying for those who cannot pay through higher charges from hospitals and doctors (which leads to higher health insurance premiums and/or reduced benefits). You see, you may not be able to pay but someone has to. People complain about having to subsidize other peoples healthcare through ACA, but the reality is that you already are! The ACA just appears to be easier to quantify since information about subsidis is readily available…oh and their is the dirty word of tax that gets thrown around.