Seems like a gold mine of an opportunity for an insurance company to come in and cover all these hard working people who are making the world a better place. When will the madness stop? It’s incredible how naive the masses are that believe going out and having a beer is their god given right, but think something far less harmful like cannabis is the devils flower. Our government has a patent on cannabinoids as a medicine, and at the same time has cannabis on the Schedule 1 drug schedule that by definition “has no medical value”. The hypocrisy and corruption are so brazen it’s scary.
BTW, a different Dave than usually posts here. I couldn’t care less on what criteria insurance companies use to underwrite as long as they are consistent in it’s use and the criteria is legal. Personally, I agree that using cannabis recreationally does present a less safe lifestyle. And if using it medicinally, probably suggests a disease and treatment for said disease this is counter to a longer lifespan.
Different Dave, you fail to account for all the goofy recreational users who don’t have a disease to treat medicinally. These are the ones who, when they don’t get the high they want often go to Meth and later Cocaine or Heroine to get their fix. Put them behind the wheel while high and they will also text and drive, a lethal combination.
Actu- Almost sounds like you could be describing the people who want gun control.
Dare I say “double standard”?
July 11, 2016 at 10:56 pm
actu says:
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From 1997 to 2005 there were fewer than 300 deaths attributed to Marijuana, there are about 40x that many by guns each year. The drug isn’t designed to kill people like guns are, & very few deaths from Marijuana are innocent bystanders. So no they aren’t the same at all, one primarily harms the user as a byproduct of use, and the other is designed to harm other people as the primary use.
But nuts with deranged fantasies about engaging in vigilante actions and paranoid fantasies about shooting it out in the street with government love guns, so there’s no real point in debating it with these lunatics.
July 12, 2016 at 8:06 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
In actuality, actu was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Conservative who advocates for limited government for them, but wants the same government to crack down on those who want to live a different, peaceful lifestyle.
July 12, 2016 at 2:51 pm
integrity matters says:
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Actu/Ron:
First, my comment “Almost sounds like you could be describing the people who want gun control” pertained to Actu’s comment “unless you do anything they don’t personally do, in which case it should be outlawed”.
In other words, if a person doesn’t “do” guns”, they are more likely to think they should be outlawed, UNLESS, they actually understand the purpose behind the 2nd Amendment. I don’t “do” guns but I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.
Second, if you want to bring in analogies of things designed to kill people, Actu, let’s also compare the number of innocent bystanders (babies) that WERE murdered during the same 1997 to 2005 period.
According to the CDC, More than 7 MILLION babies were killed during that time period compared to approximately 100,000 gun deaths. But nuts with deranged fantasies that it should be a woman’s right to kill their own baby think that is more acceptable than a person’s right to own a gun.
Ron – the above is the hypocrisy of the democratic/liberal/progressives. They want to crack down on the people that are already obeying the law with their guns, living a peaceful lifestyle by implementing another law that the real criminals are not going to obey anyway.
FYI to the both of you, I never said that marijuana should not be legalized. I see both benefits and problems with it. In the end, the responsible people are going to follow the law and others will not.
July 13, 2016 at 7:39 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Are you saying that we should outlaw abortions and guns?
If you say no, you are a hypocrite.
Yes or no, for the record, do you believe marijuana should be legalized?
July 13, 2016 at 11:27 am
actu says:
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That’s a false equivalency. The “babies” you talk about are almost always zygote that are a few cells, not babies. They can’t live on their own, and aren’t alive. Your type pretends most abortions are done at 7 months which is simply false.
If you truly had a problem with abortion you wouldn’t support a party that pushes abstinence only, defunds planned parenthood making it harder for people to receive family planning and contraceptives, and a long list of other actions.
The legal people with guns argument is idiotic. Where were the “good guys with guns” in Dallas? Do we all need good guys with robots and bombs now?
July 13, 2016 at 1:52 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron – Here are my answers to your questions.
Outlaw guns – no.
Outlaw abortions – yes. (I am open to limited exceptions, even though I believe there are better options than abortion even for most of those exceptions)
If someone wants to argue both are a civil right, I would argue that the only reason abortions are a civil right is because at the time of the original decision in Roe v. Wade, technology could not prove that a fetus was in fact a living human being. We have the technology now that proves that so it is time for a revised decision.
Honestly, my personal opinion is that marijuana is very much like alcohol and could possibly managed an regulated in a similar fashion. That said, I am concerned about its use by minors and that it could make the drug abuse problem for them worse. I have not totally decided but I lean towards legalization.
July 13, 2016 at 2:05 pm
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Thank you for being honest about being a hypocrite.
While I am 100% against abortion, I believe abortions should be legal up until the time a fetus can survive without the mother. Before that point, it is completely dependent upon, and therefore a part of, the mother’s body.
Considering every study I have seen indicates alcohol is far more damaging to people and society, how much more information do you need to get completely on board?
July 13, 2016 at 2:22 pm
integrity matters says:
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Actu –
Believe what you want about me or even the beginning of a life itself. Typically, there is a heartbeat at 8-10 weeks. If there is a heartbeat, it is a living being…if that heart belongs to what will eventually become a human being, it is a human being and ending it prematurely in what ever manner is killing that human being. Your argument that babies cannot live on their own is a stupid argument because babies outside the womb can’t live on their own either without food and protection, which is what they naturally get inside the womb.
FYI, you don’t know my “type” so stop assuming be you are only making an ass out of yourself. I do not believe that most abortions are done at seven months, but I believe there are more late term abortions performed than you probably do.
Regarding contraception, I am all for it to prevent a pregnancy from happening. Guess what bozo, abstinence IS the only way to guarantee that pregnancy won’t happen. So, yes, I am a strong believer in promoting abstinence.
Giving teenagers condoms to prevent pregnancy is giving them a license to have sex. Why don’t we just give them alcohol and drugs and teach them how to text and drive, too? Their going to do it anyway!!
Planned parenthood is a joke. Sure some people get family planning and contraception but the money is in performing abortions. How often do they promote alternative choices other than abortion?
You said “The legal people with guns argument is idiotic.” How so? What “new gun law” is going to prevent criminals from killing people with guns anyway? Do you really think limiting long guns by law is going to stop criminals from getting them?
If democrats cared about the killing of minorities in the inner cities, they would do something about getting rid of the drug dealers. Instead, they want to let low level drug dealers out of jail and continue feeding the process.
July 13, 2016 at 4:26 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron- I’m not sure why you are calling me a hypocrite, but, so be it.
If it is about my position on the legalization of pot, I am honestly still on the fence about it. I lean towards legalizing it for all the points made by you and others.
HOWEVER…there is still a nagging concern about the overall societal impact that we can only guess at. The early results from CO are not that rosy and abuse by minors is a strong possibility.
I think it is naïve for anyone to dismiss the potential impact of broad recreational legalization and consider it harmless.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the abortion issue. Using a fetus’ ability to survive on its own without the mother is a ridiculous criteria, in my opinion. If it has a heartbeat, it is alive. In later stages it has a head, arms, legs, fingers and toes. It is a baby human.
Babies as young as 22 weeks (gestation period) have survived outside of the womb, some without any other physical defects.
July 14, 2016 at 8:01 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
I called you a hypocrite because you support one thing that was designed to kill, but are against another.
You said, “I think it is naïve for anyone to dismiss the potential impact of broad recreational legalization and consider it harmless.” I am, not dismissing it, I am OK with it. Unless you want the government to outlaw everything that may be harmful, you should not want them to outlaw anything that is harmful. As I said, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves.
July 14, 2016 at 1:02 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron – With all do respect (and I do respect your opinion), your rationale in comparing the two is way off.
Guns are actually designed to “protect”.
Guns protect governments from being taken over.
Guns protect individual citizens from intruders.
What the user does with the gun is their choice. The gun has no choice in the matter. It does not know who is holding it, why they are using it or what it is even shooting at. The gun is inanimate.
Can a person use a gun to kill someone or animal? Yes. Does it always kill? No. Most gun owners do not use their guns to kill other people. Cops use their guns to protect themselves and the public. Criminals use their guns to harm or kill others.
Abortion, by comparison, is the actual act of killing a baby. Abortion results in death 99.9% of the time. That is the actual intention of abortion and the aborters (doctor and mother). All aborters kill other people.
Big difference, my friend. I will refuse to be considered a hypocrite on that point.
Finally, you said “As I said, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves.”
Generally speaking, I agree with that statement. However, the world is not that black and white, nor are products that are made, nor are the good or bad intentions of people that make or use products.
The standard of a prudent person only applies to the person or business who should have known to warn others of potential harm. Unfortunately, it does not apply to the stupid people that do not have enough common sense to use the product as intended or in a safe manner.
July 14, 2016 at 2:30 pm
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Fair enough. I apologize and rescind my hypocrite statement.
You can spin how guns are used all you want. If they were not a tool designed to kill, they would not provide protection.
July 15, 2016 at 10:43 am
integrity matters says:
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Thanks, Ron. Apology accepted.
July 11, 2016 at 10:27 am
Jessica says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Clearly you have very antiquated thinking that marijuana is a “gateway” drug. I have been using it since high school and have never tried meth, cocaine, or heroin. I have so many friends and acquaintances who also do not do any hard drug but smoke weed. You seem to like to spit out generalizations from what you have read, without actually knowing anything for yourself.
I’m glad to hear you and your friends can recreationally get high and not “graduate” to wanting to do other drugs.
I have some friends that are equally responsible and some that have the addictive gene that can’t get high enough and use the other more dangerous drugs.
MJ is a gateway drug from some, but not all. I’ve witnessed it. Just because it wasn’t for you, it does not mean that it is not a gateway drug for others.
July 12, 2016 at 8:11 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Many of those who you cited to have the addictive gene, which we all have, would “graduate” to the harsher drugs whether or not marijuana is legal. Legalizing marijuana does not mean it will be mandatory for all citizens to use. It would save us billions of dollars, free up law enforcement to go after real criminals and terrorists, and generate billions of dollars in additional tax revenue. Sounds like something a true Conservative would get behind.
Your side needs to really find better arguments.
July 12, 2016 at 3:03 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron,
As I said in the post above, I never said that marijuana should not be legalized. I see both benefits and problems with it. In the end, the responsible people are going to follow the law and others will not. If marijuana is legal, some people who have the addictive gene might not otherwise try marijuana because it is illegal. Teenagers are at most risk. Look at the problem we have today with underage drinking.
You said…
“It would save us billions of dollars, free up law enforcement to go after real criminals and terrorists, and generate billions of dollars in additional tax revenue”.
Do you realize I can use that same argument why NOT to have gun control?
The gov’t will LOSE billions in tax revenue from the law abiding citizens that purchase guns legally. Maybe the govt should try to enforce the existing guns laws first instead of creating new ones that they are not going to enforce.
You really need to find better points to argue.
July 13, 2016 at 7:45 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Can you cite me ever saying I was for more gun control?
Try again.
I seem to be advocating for less government more often than the “Conservatives” on this blog.
July 13, 2016 at 2:35 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron –
I cannot specifically cite whether you are for or against gun control. Which do you support?
July 13, 2016 at 3:10 pm
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
Then, why did you assume I was for gun control?
For the record, I am against gun control or any other government invasion into our private lives, liberty and freedom.
July 13, 2016 at 3:23 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron –
I’m not sure. I guess I got caught up in making the point about the potential revenue lost with gun control.
My bad. I apologize.
July 13, 2016 at 3:41 pm
Ron says:
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Apology accepted.
We really do need to stop making assumptions about each other. I know I have been guilty of doing that myself sometimes.
July 13, 2016 at 4:27 pm
integrity matters says:
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I agree.
July 8, 2016 at 2:33 pm
Agent says:
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I recommend that all weed users form a life company to underwrite the coverage. Call it Marijuana Mutual Life Insurance or Cannibas Mutual. Not sure what the rates would be if the rate maker was high when the rates were published.
Hi Integrity, where have you been hiding lately? You had a good name for it. We could probably think of more good names. They could hire a good Millenial CEO, apply all their metrics to the rates and charge twice as much for the premium since they would be weed smokers. The rate should be about 3 times the smoker rate. Only offer $25,000 annual renewable term with escalating rates each year.
Thanks, Agent. I’ve just been very busy and have not had the time to read as many articles and comment.
Sorry to hear about the tragedy in Dallas and hope all is well for you. I’m not sure if you are in that fine city or not.
July 11, 2016 at 11:03 pm
actu says:
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You are an idiot. Show a legitimate link proving worse cancer rates from Marijuana and cigarettes. Just leave already, your are an idiot and contribute nothing but verbal diarrhea. Get a grip on reality, or stick to your normal racist rants and hate speech.
July 12, 2016 at 3:49 pm
integrity matters says:
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Actu – I’m not sure who you are directing your rant to, but you need some serious anger management counseling.
By the way, most people who get cancer from smoking are not going to admit that they smoked pot to the people asking the questions because it has been illegal.
Once again, logic is not in your vocabulary so its hard for you to conceptually understand why there is no data to confirm this. Check out the link to the Lung Assoc that I posted below regarding the harm caused to the lungs by smoking pot.
July 12, 2016 at 4:54 pm
Agent says:
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integrity, I have kids that live in the metroplex and I fear for them. We live in a dangerous world of thugs, drug dealers, potheads, meth heads. Drugs often cause violence because of the very nature of it. People do irrational things which harm others. You are right. MJ destroys brain cells at an alarming rate. The tragedy is that unless they admit they have a problem like the Alcoholics Anonymous people, they will continue to descend into a life of failure and more dependency. Get help addicts. You need it more than you think.
July 13, 2016 at 3:29 pm
integrity matters says:
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Agent – I hope things settle down for your kids and everyone’s sake.
I am very close to a person that has two adopted sons. One is a cop and the other is a drug addict that has been in and out of jail many times.
When he is clean, he is a great person. But he was only out of jail two weeks (after being in jail and getting clean for about 7 months) before he fell back into his old crowd and started using again. It is tearing my friend apart.
This individual started with pot and alcohol and graduated to harsher substances. Both his parents were drug addicts with his mother eventually OD-ing on heroin. Very sad.
July 8, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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They’ll need auto and home insurance, too! Call that company The Joint & Several Casualties To Follow Insurance Co.
Yogi, here is a good one for you. I insure a Community Bank that had a mortgage on a home. Farmers did the HO. Well, it seems that the insured was growing the harmless weed in his home and hooked up some powerful lights so they would grow. Oops, the lights overloaded the wiring and burned the house down. The guy ended up going to prison and Farmers had no choice but to pay the bank off on their interest. The bank re-built the dwelling and then sold it off. The guy got about 10 I believe.
Cannabis users have the best health by comparison to the legal Alternatives and should be given breaks on insurance not increased rates.
I am 60 and have been using cannabis off and on since my late teens (over 42 years). I’m a husband, father, electronics engineer, community volunteer, musician and successful business owner. I never drink alcoholic beverages or use tobacco products. I vaporize cannabis (no smoke, no smell, no problems) in the evening after work or on weekends. I am in excellent health, my memory is perfect and I run 30-40 miles per week and finished my 2nd Marathon May 22, 2016 in 3 hrs, 35 mins. I am just one of millions of health conscious Americans seeking the least harmful buzz. How long do we have to suffer the lies and ridiculous nonsense from a government whose own data at the CDC shows cannabis nearly harmless by comparison to prescription drugs, tobacco and booze??
Center for Disease Control numbers of deaths per year in the USA
* Prescription Drugs: 237,485 + 5000 traffic fatalities
* Tobacco: 390,323
* Alcohol: 88,013 + 16,000 traffic fatalities
* Cocaine: 4,906
* Heroin: 7,200
* Aspirin: 466
* Acetaminophen (Tylenol): 179
* Marijuana: 0, none, not a single fatal overdose in all medical history and almost no traffic problems.
So, which is safer???? Legalize, regulate and TAX!
I wonder how many deaths are attributed to use of Marijuana that resulted from dangerous behavior (driving while under the influence, etc.) while using it?
Try Property Casualty 360 sometime and you will get all the data you need.
July 11, 2016 at 1:22 pm
confused says:
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Let me translate Agent’s reply: “I’ve got no stats to back up Dave’s point, so I’ll just send you on a wild goose chase instead.” can you even give ONE link to an article (not just from propcas360, but anywhere!) that has the relevant data for review?
July 11, 2016 at 5:40 pm
integrity matters says:
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Jessica/Confused –
Here is link from the great state of CA. That should be left enough for you.
Did you even read these articles? Neither of them even references deaths attributed to marijuana use.
The first one is from a biased website that only references teens, who would not be able to purchase marijuana legally. It stated that
The second is regarding suspected marijuana use and said nothing about increased accidents. Even so, only 6.4% were believed to be marijuana only.
“Because DUI cases involving marijuana are not differentiated in court data, Colorado has long struggled to determine whether stoned driving is an increasing problem in the state.”
If this is the best you can provide, then you lose.
July 12, 2016 at 3:41 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron –
So in your mind, marijuana use is only bad for you if it causes death? Diseases, such as cancer, are okay then?
Too many people are trying say marijuana is not harmful, which is a lie.
Is someone going to overdose on pot? Not likely. Are there deaths related to pot use? Absolutely. Here is another article that you don’t have to believe.
The problem is that hospitals and coroners may not be using pot use as the primary cause of death. If they do not, then the death gets recorded otherwise. Additionally, no one really knows how much influence pot use has on a person as an enticement to other drug abuse. To say “they would have used those other drugs anyway” is an easy cop-out.
July 13, 2016 at 8:28 am
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
You asked, “So in your mind, marijuana use is only bad for you if it causes death?” I did not say that. What I said was that the request for data was for deaths attributed to marijuana use.
You asked, “Diseases, such as cancer, are okay then?” Yes. As a free society we need to accept that bad things will happen based on how we live our lives. At least I am honest about it.
How many things that are currently legal cause cancer at a mush higher rate? Should we outlaw smoking, drinking, processed foods, use of carcinogenic chemicals in manufacturing and agriculture, nuclear energy/weaponry, etc.?
Is it your position that anything that is harmful to people, contributes to or results in death, should be outlawed?
July 13, 2016 at 3:04 pm
integrity matters says:
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Ron-
You and Jessica were looking for data regarding deaths attributable to marijuana use. I originally provided articles showing it was harmful and later provided how its use is linked to death.
Do you think marijuana use can be harmful and can possibly lead to death (the user’s or other persons)?
You asked “Is it your position that anything that is harmful to people, contributes to or results in death, should be outlawed?”
Of course not. There are always risk and rewards with everything. Why don’t we make cocaine legal, too? There are many people I know that use coke and function in life responsibly. (I ask this facetiously.)
There is a fine line to where government oversight and protection is necessary to when it becomes intrusive on individual liberty. When is a product so “dangerous” that the government has to intervene to prevent its use?
Smoking is extremely dangerous and nicotine is far more addictive than marijuana. More than guns. But, there is too much money to be made off of tobacco products to outlaw them.
Speaking of individual liberty, what is your position on mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists?
July 13, 2016 at 3:29 pm
Ron says:
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Integrity Matters,
You asked, “Why don’t we make cocaine legal, too?” I’m cool with that.
You asked, “When is a product so “dangerous” that the government has to intervene to prevent its use?” NEVER.
You asked, ” Speaking of individual liberty, what is your position on mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists?” Against them.
If you have not picked up on my position regarding laws, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves. Put the money from law enforcement, corrections, and creating more legislation into better education of the dangers of these products. Then let the people decide what is best for them.
For the record, the only illegal drug I have ever used is alcohol before I was 21. In addition, I have absolutely no desire to use any illegal drug in the future.
July 8, 2016 at 4:24 pm
SWFL Agent says:
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Freedom Fighter, I hear you and yes, you’re doing well. The war on drugs has never moved the needle on the per capita addiction percentages so common sense says legalize and move on. But all of us have had experience with drug users and addictions and the devastating affects so it’s hard to advocate anything but complete zero tolerance. But I guess I’m willing to try another direction even if addiction percentages remain the same but crime goes down.
How about your Auto Loss Ratio SW from the idiot weed smokers running over people? There goes the contingency when you have one of those maxed out losses.
There’s nothing good or positive to be gained from drug use or addiction. Who knows, maybe Freedom Fighters marathon time could have been better without it. And I certainly have never heard a former addict say “that heroine addiction was a great time of my life”, but the war on drugs has not worked and it may be time to try something else.
I am in no way in favor of Cannabis, but SWFL Agent really has it right. The war on drugs has failed; it started at the end of Prohibition when all the law enforcement regulating alcohol was facing job loss. They had to focus on another bugaboo to justify their existence.
It is debatable that the war on drugs has failed. Even if it has, that is no reason to give up fighting. People’s lives are at stake – both people addicted to drugs and other people who are robbed or killed by those really addicted needing to feed their habit.
Reducing fines and letting “low level” drug dealers out of jail is not going to solve the problem. They are just going to continue to infiltrate those most vulnerable – kids and addicts.
Democrats continue to perpetuate the problem in the inner cities by allowing these situations to continue. They are stacking the deck against the minorities and then blaming the violence on the guns and cops. Why can’t anyone on the left see and understand this?
It’s frustrating and depressing for us on the outside looking in. I can’t imagine how it feels for those that are mired in that lifestyle.
Yogi, do you think it is a fair question to ask on an employment application – Have you used or do you presently use Cannabis/Marijuana? I am sure the Progressive crowd would say that is an unfair question and no proof that it has damaged their ability to think critically or perform their jobs.
By the way, I expect at least 40 downthumbs from this question.
presuming you are talking about an insurance application, if marijuana is illegal in the state where the party is applying for a job, it is a valid question. asking that question in colorado would not be fair to an insurance applicant.
First, Agent was asking about an employment application.
Second, even if it was an insurance application, asking underwriting questions has nothing to do with whether something is legal or not. They ask about using tobacco products on life insurance applications and that’s legal.
July 14, 2016 at 1:20 pm
confused says:
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“They ask about using tobacco products on life insurance applications and that’s legal.”
Yeah, because tobacco has been proven to destroy people’s health so the underwriters need to know how to appropriately price the policy for the future exposure. If weed caused cancer, I could see why they’d ask. If weed use indicated who abides by the law and who does not, again I could see why they’d ask.
July 14, 2016 at 3:45 pm
Agent says:
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Integrity, these bots are pretty easily “confused” about the difference in tobacco and pot on an application for Life Insurance. The last time I checked, smoking cigarettes did not make the smoker high or impair their judgment or make them a dufus. Yes, the rates for smokers is much higher as they should be, especially in the 40-50 age crowd. I had a guy ask me, would it be less expensive if I quit smoking? My answer was, yes, but it takes quite a while for the nicotine to wash out of the blood and that blood test will catch it. I have had a few applicants say they quit 6 months ago, go through the exam and the company would approve them, but rate them as smokers. Some bought coverage and some declined the higher premiums.
July 14, 2016 at 4:42 pm
confused says:
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agent – simple question for you. does weed cause cancer at the same or worse rate that cigarettes do?
put aside that weed could increase stupidity – if weed causes cancer, i apologize because that should be factored into premiums since weed smokers will need expensive chemotherapy.
July 15, 2016 at 10:49 am
integrity matters says:
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Confused – there is not enough data to definitively state whether weed causes cancer at any specified rate. This is because most people have not admitted to using it since it is illegal.
Weed causes damage to the lungs. Check out the American Lung Assoc’s website for details.
Dudes! I can’t remember where I left my car. Or, if I own a car. And I can’t figure out how to tie my shoelaces. Cannabi get some help with my shoes? Dudes?! Hello!?
Freedom Fighter, why do you need that buzz? I drink alcohol because I like the flavor, and deliberately try to avoid a buzz – because I feel uncomfortable with it. (I wish I could get a non-alcoholic 18 yr old single malt!!!) I certainly wouldn’t take a drug just to give me a buzz. life is good without it. marijuana users that do it for a buzz have a problem – – .
MJ, for some people, is like alcohol in that they can socially get high responsibly and still maintain a normal lifestyle. For other people, it can be a serious problem similar to alcoholism and can also be a gateway drug.
We all personally know people that fall into the above categories.
To imply that MJ is totally harmless is lie. It physically alters the mind. Anything that does that can cause harm.
The issue is whether the govt believes the people are responsible enough to use it in a similar fashion as alcohol. Employers should have the right to have policies in place, similar to alcohol use.
Insurers (life and auto, particularly) should be allowed to underwrite these exposures in line with tobacco and alcohol use.
Users should not feel discriminated against because they choose to do something that is outside of that carriers underwriting appetite. There are plenty of other carriers waiting to offer their coverage.
Comment previously hidden by BOT attack on my post replying to Agent:
Yes; they’re Progressives; look at the owners!
Note: to restore your comments previously hidden by BOTS, click the button that says click to read comment, then paint it, copy it, and paste it into a new post, as I did in this post.
Yogi Polar Berra, you do realize that you don’t have to repost a comment because it gets hidden, right? ‘Click here to see’ allows you to read the comment.
Comment previously hidden by BOT attack on my post replying to Agent:
Yes; they’re Progressives; look at the owners!
Note: to restore your comments previously hidden by BOTS, click the button that says click to read comment, then paint it, copy it, and paste it into a new post, as I did in this post.
You have got to be kidding if you think marijuana has contributed to no (or little as you state)traffic problems. There is a subset of data being used right now to help explain current, increasing Personal Auto loss trends that shows a strong correlation between accident frequency and liberal marijuana use and possession laws in several states. Yes, I know that proves nothing to most people, but the correlation is there for a reason.
It is (probably) as unsafe as alcohol and it is illegal in most places.
As a side note somewhat unrelated to the discussion, please take a look at the crime rates in Denver since the legalization.
very good points. People also need to look at the increase in the homeless population in CO, too. I know several people that live there that are complaining about this. Many people are moving there because of the MJ law but they are unemployed and living on the streets.
So Integrity, do you think the increase in the homeless rate is due to people losing jobs because of MJ use? Homeless people moving to Colorado because of the availability of MJ? Or something completely different? It certainly can’t be economic related as Mr. Obama and his paid shill Josh Ernest are continually telling us what a great job they are doing fixing the economy.
Dave, we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
All this coming from the idiot who said unemployment was higher now than when Obama took office. You are a clueless moron.
July 11, 2016 at 8:59 am
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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AGENT WROTE the following, (but it was censored by BOTS above):
Dave, we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
(Restored by Yogi Polar Berra, in his fight against censorship by BOTS who fear the truth!)
AGENT WROTE the following, (but it was censored by BOTS above):
Dave; we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
(Restored by Yogi Polar Berra, in his fight against censorship by BOTS who fear the truth!)
I don’t know. I have not seen any stats on that yet.
My opinion is that it is people moving to CO because it is legal and they are hoping to obtain a job. They may or may not have previously been employed or homeless.
Integrity, there was a story last year on a business owner moving his business from Denver to SC because his employees kept showing up high or not showing up at all because they were stoned. Unproductive stoned workers do not a successful business make.
Note my new method of combating the BOTS who are censoring the speech of others…. copy censored posts, and paste them into a new post.
In your Face(book), BOTS!
July 11, 2016 at 9:30 am
karma police says:
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if you are going to repost every agent post that gets hidden, be fair and treat everyone the same way by reposting EVERY post that’s hidden regardless of who wrote it.
July 11, 2016 at 10:04 am
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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Sorry, karma; that’s your job; i.e. to aid free speech of the clueless posters.
July 11, 2016 at 10:41 am
karma police says:
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so you’re only going to aid free speech if you agree with what was posted and you’re going to keep the speech of others with whom you don’t agree censored?
July 11, 2016 at 3:58 pm
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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karma police is the BOT Squad leader!
July 12, 2016 at 7:35 pm
JAMES says:
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integrity – I normally agree with you, but the definition of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, is insanity. That’s the war on drugs.
As I said in this thread, elsewhere; pot users tend to lie a lot, forget plenty of important details, and use the legality of alcohol use as a debate point without realizing they have different long-term effects.
Every person who switches from addictive, very harmful, accident causing, violence-inducing alcohol, to near harmless marijuana, improves their health tremendously – as well as the lives of their family and community.
Stop the bigotry! – That’s the MOST dangerous lifestyle.
Yogi, here is how it might go: Mr Applicant, we did a blood test and noticed that you have a higher than normal concentration of Cannabis in your system. You don’t have Cancer, Glaucoma or any other diseases, do you? Answer: No, I just like to get high all the time. Don’t worry, I can handle it. I don’t usually have more than 3 or 4 joints per day. My buddy wants me to try Meth and says the high is much better, but don’t worry, I will be responsible with it.
The MOST dangerous lifestyle is anyone who is addicted to any drug or alcohol and thinks they do not have a problem. Some are more violent than others. They are lying to themselves and to others.
Addictions do not discriminate. They affect all races, genders and ages. Anyone thinking otherwise is naïve or ignorant to the truth.
As someone who has sold Life Insurance for 35 years, I can testify that Life Insurance has prevented much financial hardship of a surviving spouse, children, provided college educations, paid off homes and many other expenses. You must have no family at all so you don’t need it.
Integrity, for the average 25 year old male in good health, non smoker, they often can get a $100,000 Level Term Life policy for less than $350 annual premium. That sure is a rip off, isn’t it? Hey, these Bots can leave the insurance to the parents who let them live in the basement and not launch and get free food, laundry service and stay on the parents health policy until 26.
integrity, I had a customer and wife a few years back that bought some high amounts of Life Insurance. They owned a business which had a lien on it. The guy got sick with Cancer and died. The wife used the proceeds to pay off the lien on the business and the lien on their home. She then changed her beneficiary to a grown daughter who also worked in the business. The wife also had gotten sick with a lung disease and she died. Both of them were in their 50’s when they passed. Now, the daughter had the proceeds to continue the business. It was quite tragic, but the Life Insurance was there when it was needed. I don’t think they thought Life Insurance was a rip off.
Take note from the story that the application process was discontinued, instead of just a rate hike. If cannabis use results in no meaningful increase in risk of loss, but there remains, for whatever reason, an unjustified stigma among insurers over its use, then it follows that there is a lot of money to be made by some carriers willing to accept the risk. Bottom line: Put your money where your joint is and buy the stock of THAT company (or start one of your own) instead of protesting “discrimination!”
The problem is that your argument is wrong, yet you continue to try to persuade people that marijuana is harmless when many studies have shown disastrous long-term effects.
Everyone knows you can smoke marijuana and later sober up, similar to alcohol. Few pot heads learned that long-term use of mj leads to destruction of brain cells at a high rate. At some point, some did learn that, but ignored it because their judgement was then badly impaired.
Yogi, judging from all the BOT censorship of our posts, they are craving their next joint and they don’t have a problem in the world stealing from their employers, lying about it and lying that they aren’t doing it. Their maturity level is about third grade and we know who they are.
The BOTs have been inactive lately because this article encouraged their pot head operators to light up. Once they come down from their ‘cloud’, we might see more of them activating their BOTs.
Yogi, we have heard much about the benefits of the “Cloud” from the internet geeks. In this case, the cloud is around the heads of those puffing on their weed. I wonder how many millions of brain cells they have killed just today. At this rate, they will be totally incoherent in a matter of weeks and then they will have to be shown how to vote for HiLLIARy in November.
The only reason I ever stopped smoking pot was because of the criminal behavior in the supply chain. I purchased from a friend who worked on Wall Street, who purchased from her secretary, who’s boyfriend was a dealer. But I learned that he had been arrested with guns, and I never purchased again. To me, decriminalization would remove most of the other crimes associated with drug distribution. Then we could focus on the drug itself. There is way too much b.s. about what pot itself does to people. (of course you should not drive under the influence of any product that makes you less sharp, so that has nothing to do with the drug itself.) What really harms people who smoke it is the herbicide and pesticide treatment of the plant.. If we could grow it in our own gardens like an herb, it would be mild and no one would get hurt from the item itself. American culture is obsessed with taboos about pot, and I observe that this demonizing of pot is more about the biased beliefs about people who smoke it than about the plant.
You hit on something that causes concern and possibly separates alcohol and the legalization of pot, especially as it pertains to minors.
To my knowledge, there are no “alcohol dealers” in the neighborhoods like there are drug dealers. (do people supply alcohol to minors, of course, but not in the same vein or capacity like a drug dealer).
If pot is legalized, would drug dealers stop selling pot to minors? If so, that would be a good thing. However, in my opinion, I think this would continue because pot is already saturated in the underground world of drug dealing. Adults would no longer have a need to use the neighborhood dealer to get their pot, so the only available target audience would be the minors. Decriminalization would end up being a farce because dealers could simply only carry the amounts that are “legal” and might not ever face prosecution.
Bottom line is that the current pot is not the pot used by hippies in the 60’s. The current level of THC has been bred up to 1000% of the level present in the 60’s pot. That makes it damn dangerous and not the safe hippy dippy diversion that those who first smoked it in the 60’s used. There is also a synthetic pot out there that even without being laced with heroin or worse, has a high fatality rate. Lace it and your literally are taking your life in your hands with every toke.
This is not a political issue. Its a common sense issue. Were the current THC levels like those in the 60’s legalized pot would be ok….but… they aren’t and as such they have finally made pot a true gateway drug.
Mighty, I have never seen any info on the difference between 60’s pot and pot of today. However, it is a gateway drug and we see story after story that pot smokers often gravitate toward Meth and later Cocaine and Heroine when they get out of control. That is why the Mexican drug lords do so well in this country.
How about you furnish the info on the difference between the pot of the 60’s and today’s more lethal combination? You should be an expert on it since you are apparently high as you type your incorrigible reply.
why should i do that? i agree with The Mighty Quinn that THC potency is higher now than it was 50 years ago and wasn’t arguing otherwise.
July 15, 2016 at 1:10 pm
Agent says:
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Confused, you lead a very confused life and are on the wrong side of every issue. Perhaps a frontal lobotomy would be a help since you are so far off in your belief system. What a sad existence you must have.
July 15, 2016 at 1:23 pm
confused says:
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thanks for your insulting reply. glad to see you haven’t learned how to talk like an adult yet.
“you lead a very confused life and are on the wrong side of every issue”
i have told you 10+ times that i think obamacare is a super-duper failure. since i’m on the wrong side of every issue, you must think it’s awesome!
hey everyone? agent loves obamacare!
i have also told you i think hillary is a lying crook.
hey everyone? agent thinks hillary is honest and genuine!
i have told you i think guns should NOT be banned, even automatic weapons.
hey everyone? agent wants to take your guns away!
July 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Agent says:
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Like I said Confused, you may need professional help from your Anger Management issues and Progressive agenda. I have yet to see you disavow Bernie. You go into a rage and talk all around it. Now, you can loudly say – Bernie is no longer in the race so I don’t have to disavow him. By the way, he is now hugging Hilliary on stage after telling America that she is not fit to be President for the past 6 months. Politics makes for strange bedfellows, doesn’t it?
thanks for your second insulting reply in a row. glad to see you still haven’t learned how to talk like an adult yet.
am i on the wrong side of the obamacare, hillary and gun control issues or can you actually admit you wrong for once and we agree on those three topics?
Freedom Fighter – not sure of the 0 stat for Marijuana. A couple of years ago after legalization in CO a WY student jumped to his death from a motel window because of the hallucination he was having after eating an edible. I guess it was not an overdose, but it was fatal!
Can you pass the test?
1. Do the AMA and the American Psychiatric Association support or oppose legalization? (Both have always opposed.)
2. Does regular marijuana use decrease IQ? (By 8 points on average with frequent users in their late teens and early 20s).
3. Does regular marijuana use increase mental illness? Science now indicates a doubling of the chance of serious mental illness for regular marijuana users. (Ie. some regular marijauna users are developing schizophrenia or bipolar syndrome, but would not have if they had never used marijuana.)
4. Does marijuana increase or decrease motivation, according to psychologists? (Too easy.)
5. Does marijuana use by pregnant women endanger the unborn child? 3 studies indicate the danger may be greater than lead poisoning.
So, does marijuana use indicate a more dangerous lifestyle?
Seems like a gold mine of an opportunity for an insurance company to come in and cover all these hard working people who are making the world a better place. When will the madness stop? It’s incredible how naive the masses are that believe going out and having a beer is their god given right, but think something far less harmful like cannabis is the devils flower. Our government has a patent on cannabinoids as a medicine, and at the same time has cannabis on the Schedule 1 drug schedule that by definition “has no medical value”. The hypocrisy and corruption are so brazen it’s scary.
BTW, a different Dave than usually posts here. I couldn’t care less on what criteria insurance companies use to underwrite as long as they are consistent in it’s use and the criteria is legal. Personally, I agree that using cannabis recreationally does present a less safe lifestyle. And if using it medicinally, probably suggests a disease and treatment for said disease this is counter to a longer lifespan.
Dave’s not here, man
C’mon Man, open the door, it’s Dave man, open up
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Limited government conservative, unless you do anything they don’t personally do, in which case it should be outlawed.
Actu- Almost sounds like you could be describing the people who want gun control.
Dare I say “double standard”?
From 1997 to 2005 there were fewer than 300 deaths attributed to Marijuana, there are about 40x that many by guns each year. The drug isn’t designed to kill people like guns are, & very few deaths from Marijuana are innocent bystanders. So no they aren’t the same at all, one primarily harms the user as a byproduct of use, and the other is designed to harm other people as the primary use.
But nuts with deranged fantasies about engaging in vigilante actions and paranoid fantasies about shooting it out in the street with government love guns, so there’s no real point in debating it with these lunatics.
Integrity Matters,
In actuality, actu was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Conservative who advocates for limited government for them, but wants the same government to crack down on those who want to live a different, peaceful lifestyle.
Actu/Ron:
First, my comment “Almost sounds like you could be describing the people who want gun control” pertained to Actu’s comment “unless you do anything they don’t personally do, in which case it should be outlawed”.
In other words, if a person doesn’t “do” guns”, they are more likely to think they should be outlawed, UNLESS, they actually understand the purpose behind the 2nd Amendment. I don’t “do” guns but I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.
Second, if you want to bring in analogies of things designed to kill people, Actu, let’s also compare the number of innocent bystanders (babies) that WERE murdered during the same 1997 to 2005 period.
According to the CDC, More than 7 MILLION babies were killed during that time period compared to approximately 100,000 gun deaths. But nuts with deranged fantasies that it should be a woman’s right to kill their own baby think that is more acceptable than a person’s right to own a gun.
Ron – the above is the hypocrisy of the democratic/liberal/progressives. They want to crack down on the people that are already obeying the law with their guns, living a peaceful lifestyle by implementing another law that the real criminals are not going to obey anyway.
FYI to the both of you, I never said that marijuana should not be legalized. I see both benefits and problems with it. In the end, the responsible people are going to follow the law and others will not.
Integrity Matters,
Are you saying that we should outlaw abortions and guns?
If you say no, you are a hypocrite.
Yes or no, for the record, do you believe marijuana should be legalized?
That’s a false equivalency. The “babies” you talk about are almost always zygote that are a few cells, not babies. They can’t live on their own, and aren’t alive. Your type pretends most abortions are done at 7 months which is simply false.
If you truly had a problem with abortion you wouldn’t support a party that pushes abstinence only, defunds planned parenthood making it harder for people to receive family planning and contraceptives, and a long list of other actions.
The legal people with guns argument is idiotic. Where were the “good guys with guns” in Dallas? Do we all need good guys with robots and bombs now?
Ron – Here are my answers to your questions.
Outlaw guns – no.
Outlaw abortions – yes. (I am open to limited exceptions, even though I believe there are better options than abortion even for most of those exceptions)
If someone wants to argue both are a civil right, I would argue that the only reason abortions are a civil right is because at the time of the original decision in Roe v. Wade, technology could not prove that a fetus was in fact a living human being. We have the technology now that proves that so it is time for a revised decision.
Honestly, my personal opinion is that marijuana is very much like alcohol and could possibly managed an regulated in a similar fashion. That said, I am concerned about its use by minors and that it could make the drug abuse problem for them worse. I have not totally decided but I lean towards legalization.
Integrity Matters,
Thank you for being honest about being a hypocrite.
While I am 100% against abortion, I believe abortions should be legal up until the time a fetus can survive without the mother. Before that point, it is completely dependent upon, and therefore a part of, the mother’s body.
Considering every study I have seen indicates alcohol is far more damaging to people and society, how much more information do you need to get completely on board?
Actu –
Believe what you want about me or even the beginning of a life itself. Typically, there is a heartbeat at 8-10 weeks. If there is a heartbeat, it is a living being…if that heart belongs to what will eventually become a human being, it is a human being and ending it prematurely in what ever manner is killing that human being. Your argument that babies cannot live on their own is a stupid argument because babies outside the womb can’t live on their own either without food and protection, which is what they naturally get inside the womb.
FYI, you don’t know my “type” so stop assuming be you are only making an ass out of yourself. I do not believe that most abortions are done at seven months, but I believe there are more late term abortions performed than you probably do.
Regarding contraception, I am all for it to prevent a pregnancy from happening. Guess what bozo, abstinence IS the only way to guarantee that pregnancy won’t happen. So, yes, I am a strong believer in promoting abstinence.
Giving teenagers condoms to prevent pregnancy is giving them a license to have sex. Why don’t we just give them alcohol and drugs and teach them how to text and drive, too? Their going to do it anyway!!
Planned parenthood is a joke. Sure some people get family planning and contraception but the money is in performing abortions. How often do they promote alternative choices other than abortion?
You said “The legal people with guns argument is idiotic.” How so? What “new gun law” is going to prevent criminals from killing people with guns anyway? Do you really think limiting long guns by law is going to stop criminals from getting them?
If democrats cared about the killing of minorities in the inner cities, they would do something about getting rid of the drug dealers. Instead, they want to let low level drug dealers out of jail and continue feeding the process.
Ron- I’m not sure why you are calling me a hypocrite, but, so be it.
If it is about my position on the legalization of pot, I am honestly still on the fence about it. I lean towards legalizing it for all the points made by you and others.
HOWEVER…there is still a nagging concern about the overall societal impact that we can only guess at. The early results from CO are not that rosy and abuse by minors is a strong possibility.
I think it is naïve for anyone to dismiss the potential impact of broad recreational legalization and consider it harmless.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the abortion issue. Using a fetus’ ability to survive on its own without the mother is a ridiculous criteria, in my opinion. If it has a heartbeat, it is alive. In later stages it has a head, arms, legs, fingers and toes. It is a baby human.
Babies as young as 22 weeks (gestation period) have survived outside of the womb, some without any other physical defects.
Integrity Matters,
I called you a hypocrite because you support one thing that was designed to kill, but are against another.
You said, “I think it is naïve for anyone to dismiss the potential impact of broad recreational legalization and consider it harmless.” I am, not dismissing it, I am OK with it. Unless you want the government to outlaw everything that may be harmful, you should not want them to outlaw anything that is harmful. As I said, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves.
Ron – With all do respect (and I do respect your opinion), your rationale in comparing the two is way off.
Guns are actually designed to “protect”.
Guns protect governments from being taken over.
Guns protect individual citizens from intruders.
What the user does with the gun is their choice. The gun has no choice in the matter. It does not know who is holding it, why they are using it or what it is even shooting at. The gun is inanimate.
Can a person use a gun to kill someone or animal? Yes. Does it always kill? No. Most gun owners do not use their guns to kill other people. Cops use their guns to protect themselves and the public. Criminals use their guns to harm or kill others.
Abortion, by comparison, is the actual act of killing a baby. Abortion results in death 99.9% of the time. That is the actual intention of abortion and the aborters (doctor and mother). All aborters kill other people.
Big difference, my friend. I will refuse to be considered a hypocrite on that point.
Finally, you said “As I said, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves.”
Generally speaking, I agree with that statement. However, the world is not that black and white, nor are products that are made, nor are the good or bad intentions of people that make or use products.
The standard of a prudent person only applies to the person or business who should have known to warn others of potential harm. Unfortunately, it does not apply to the stupid people that do not have enough common sense to use the product as intended or in a safe manner.
Integrity Matters,
Fair enough. I apologize and rescind my hypocrite statement.
You can spin how guns are used all you want. If they were not a tool designed to kill, they would not provide protection.
Thanks, Ron. Apology accepted.
Clearly you have very antiquated thinking that marijuana is a “gateway” drug. I have been using it since high school and have never tried meth, cocaine, or heroin. I have so many friends and acquaintances who also do not do any hard drug but smoke weed. You seem to like to spit out generalizations from what you have read, without actually knowing anything for yourself.
Jessica –
I’m glad to hear you and your friends can recreationally get high and not “graduate” to wanting to do other drugs.
I have some friends that are equally responsible and some that have the addictive gene that can’t get high enough and use the other more dangerous drugs.
MJ is a gateway drug from some, but not all. I’ve witnessed it. Just because it wasn’t for you, it does not mean that it is not a gateway drug for others.
Integrity Matters,
Many of those who you cited to have the addictive gene, which we all have, would “graduate” to the harsher drugs whether or not marijuana is legal. Legalizing marijuana does not mean it will be mandatory for all citizens to use. It would save us billions of dollars, free up law enforcement to go after real criminals and terrorists, and generate billions of dollars in additional tax revenue. Sounds like something a true Conservative would get behind.
Your side needs to really find better arguments.
Ron,
As I said in the post above, I never said that marijuana should not be legalized. I see both benefits and problems with it. In the end, the responsible people are going to follow the law and others will not. If marijuana is legal, some people who have the addictive gene might not otherwise try marijuana because it is illegal. Teenagers are at most risk. Look at the problem we have today with underage drinking.
You said…
“It would save us billions of dollars, free up law enforcement to go after real criminals and terrorists, and generate billions of dollars in additional tax revenue”.
Do you realize I can use that same argument why NOT to have gun control?
The gov’t will LOSE billions in tax revenue from the law abiding citizens that purchase guns legally. Maybe the govt should try to enforce the existing guns laws first instead of creating new ones that they are not going to enforce.
You really need to find better points to argue.
Integrity Matters,
Can you cite me ever saying I was for more gun control?
Try again.
I seem to be advocating for less government more often than the “Conservatives” on this blog.
Ron –
I cannot specifically cite whether you are for or against gun control. Which do you support?
Integrity Matters,
Then, why did you assume I was for gun control?
For the record, I am against gun control or any other government invasion into our private lives, liberty and freedom.
Ron –
I’m not sure. I guess I got caught up in making the point about the potential revenue lost with gun control.
My bad. I apologize.
Apology accepted.
We really do need to stop making assumptions about each other. I know I have been guilty of doing that myself sometimes.
I agree.
I recommend that all weed users form a life company to underwrite the coverage. Call it Marijuana Mutual Life Insurance or Cannibas Mutual. Not sure what the rates would be if the rate maker was high when the rates were published.
Agent – I have a name to suggest… The High Life insurance Company.
I object to that!
Good one, Miller!
Hi Integrity, where have you been hiding lately? You had a good name for it. We could probably think of more good names. They could hire a good Millenial CEO, apply all their metrics to the rates and charge twice as much for the premium since they would be weed smokers. The rate should be about 3 times the smoker rate. Only offer $25,000 annual renewable term with escalating rates each year.
Thanks, Agent. I’ve just been very busy and have not had the time to read as many articles and comment.
Sorry to hear about the tragedy in Dallas and hope all is well for you. I’m not sure if you are in that fine city or not.
You are an idiot. Show a legitimate link proving worse cancer rates from Marijuana and cigarettes. Just leave already, your are an idiot and contribute nothing but verbal diarrhea. Get a grip on reality, or stick to your normal racist rants and hate speech.
Actu – I’m not sure who you are directing your rant to, but you need some serious anger management counseling.
By the way, most people who get cancer from smoking are not going to admit that they smoked pot to the people asking the questions because it has been illegal.
Once again, logic is not in your vocabulary so its hard for you to conceptually understand why there is no data to confirm this. Check out the link to the Lung Assoc that I posted below regarding the harm caused to the lungs by smoking pot.
integrity, I have kids that live in the metroplex and I fear for them. We live in a dangerous world of thugs, drug dealers, potheads, meth heads. Drugs often cause violence because of the very nature of it. People do irrational things which harm others. You are right. MJ destroys brain cells at an alarming rate. The tragedy is that unless they admit they have a problem like the Alcoholics Anonymous people, they will continue to descend into a life of failure and more dependency. Get help addicts. You need it more than you think.
Agent – I hope things settle down for your kids and everyone’s sake.
I am very close to a person that has two adopted sons. One is a cop and the other is a drug addict that has been in and out of jail many times.
When he is clean, he is a great person. But he was only out of jail two weeks (after being in jail and getting clean for about 7 months) before he fell back into his old crowd and started using again. It is tearing my friend apart.
This individual started with pot and alcohol and graduated to harsher substances. Both his parents were drug addicts with his mother eventually OD-ing on heroin. Very sad.
They’ll need auto and home insurance, too! Call that company The Joint & Several Casualties To Follow Insurance Co.
Yogi, here is a good one for you. I insure a Community Bank that had a mortgage on a home. Farmers did the HO. Well, it seems that the insured was growing the harmless weed in his home and hooked up some powerful lights so they would grow. Oops, the lights overloaded the wiring and burned the house down. The guy ended up going to prison and Farmers had no choice but to pay the bank off on their interest. The bank re-built the dwelling and then sold it off. The guy got about 10 I believe.
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Yogi, kind of like Millenials lying to Auto Insurers while applying for coverage. They see no problem trying to deceive.
Please move to Colorado or Washington State, if you don’t already live in one of those places.
Underwriter to applicant: Decline for coverage. Go to Progressive
Cannabis users have the best health by comparison to the legal Alternatives and should be given breaks on insurance not increased rates.
I am 60 and have been using cannabis off and on since my late teens (over 42 years). I’m a husband, father, electronics engineer, community volunteer, musician and successful business owner. I never drink alcoholic beverages or use tobacco products. I vaporize cannabis (no smoke, no smell, no problems) in the evening after work or on weekends. I am in excellent health, my memory is perfect and I run 30-40 miles per week and finished my 2nd Marathon May 22, 2016 in 3 hrs, 35 mins. I am just one of millions of health conscious Americans seeking the least harmful buzz. How long do we have to suffer the lies and ridiculous nonsense from a government whose own data at the CDC shows cannabis nearly harmless by comparison to prescription drugs, tobacco and booze??
Center for Disease Control numbers of deaths per year in the USA
* Prescription Drugs: 237,485 + 5000 traffic fatalities
* Tobacco: 390,323
* Alcohol: 88,013 + 16,000 traffic fatalities
* Cocaine: 4,906
* Heroin: 7,200
* Aspirin: 466
* Acetaminophen (Tylenol): 179
* Marijuana: 0, none, not a single fatal overdose in all medical history and almost no traffic problems.
So, which is safer???? Legalize, regulate and TAX!
I wonder how many deaths are attributed to use of Marijuana that resulted from dangerous behavior (driving while under the influence, etc.) while using it?
Far too many!
Where’s the data?
Try Property Casualty 360 sometime and you will get all the data you need.
Let me translate Agent’s reply: “I’ve got no stats to back up Dave’s point, so I’ll just send you on a wild goose chase instead.” can you even give ONE link to an article (not just from propcas360, but anywhere!) that has the relevant data for review?
Jessica/Confused –
Here is link from the great state of CA. That should be left enough for you.
http://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/stopteendui/teens/resources/substances/marijuana/scary-stats.cfm
Need more?
And another article from CO, themselves.
http://www.denverpost.com/2015/01/29/marijuana-involved-in-12-percent-of-colorado-state-patrol-dui-cases-2/
Integrity Matters,
Yes, we do need more. We need actual data.
Did you even read these articles? Neither of them even references deaths attributed to marijuana use.
The first one is from a biased website that only references teens, who would not be able to purchase marijuana legally. It stated that
The second is regarding suspected marijuana use and said nothing about increased accidents. Even so, only 6.4% were believed to be marijuana only.
“Because DUI cases involving marijuana are not differentiated in court data, Colorado has long struggled to determine whether stoned driving is an increasing problem in the state.”
If this is the best you can provide, then you lose.
Ron –
So in your mind, marijuana use is only bad for you if it causes death? Diseases, such as cancer, are okay then?
Too many people are trying say marijuana is not harmful, which is a lie.
http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/marijuana-and-lung-health.html
Is someone going to overdose on pot? Not likely. Are there deaths related to pot use? Absolutely. Here is another article that you don’t have to believe.
https://www.rt.com/usa/316148-marijuana-related-deaths-injuries-study/
The problem is that hospitals and coroners may not be using pot use as the primary cause of death. If they do not, then the death gets recorded otherwise. Additionally, no one really knows how much influence pot use has on a person as an enticement to other drug abuse. To say “they would have used those other drugs anyway” is an easy cop-out.
Integrity Matters,
You asked, “So in your mind, marijuana use is only bad for you if it causes death?” I did not say that. What I said was that the request for data was for deaths attributed to marijuana use.
You asked, “Diseases, such as cancer, are okay then?” Yes. As a free society we need to accept that bad things will happen based on how we live our lives. At least I am honest about it.
How many things that are currently legal cause cancer at a mush higher rate? Should we outlaw smoking, drinking, processed foods, use of carcinogenic chemicals in manufacturing and agriculture, nuclear energy/weaponry, etc.?
Is it your position that anything that is harmful to people, contributes to or results in death, should be outlawed?
Ron-
You and Jessica were looking for data regarding deaths attributable to marijuana use. I originally provided articles showing it was harmful and later provided how its use is linked to death.
Do you think marijuana use can be harmful and can possibly lead to death (the user’s or other persons)?
You asked “Is it your position that anything that is harmful to people, contributes to or results in death, should be outlawed?”
Of course not. There are always risk and rewards with everything. Why don’t we make cocaine legal, too? There are many people I know that use coke and function in life responsibly. (I ask this facetiously.)
There is a fine line to where government oversight and protection is necessary to when it becomes intrusive on individual liberty. When is a product so “dangerous” that the government has to intervene to prevent its use?
Smoking is extremely dangerous and nicotine is far more addictive than marijuana. More than guns. But, there is too much money to be made off of tobacco products to outlaw them.
Speaking of individual liberty, what is your position on mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists?
Integrity Matters,
You asked, “Why don’t we make cocaine legal, too?” I’m cool with that.
You asked, “When is a product so “dangerous” that the government has to intervene to prevent its use?” NEVER.
You asked, ” Speaking of individual liberty, what is your position on mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists?” Against them.
If you have not picked up on my position regarding laws, the government should only protect us from each other, not ourselves. Put the money from law enforcement, corrections, and creating more legislation into better education of the dangers of these products. Then let the people decide what is best for them.
For the record, the only illegal drug I have ever used is alcohol before I was 21. In addition, I have absolutely no desire to use any illegal drug in the future.
Freedom Fighter, I hear you and yes, you’re doing well. The war on drugs has never moved the needle on the per capita addiction percentages so common sense says legalize and move on. But all of us have had experience with drug users and addictions and the devastating affects so it’s hard to advocate anything but complete zero tolerance. But I guess I’m willing to try another direction even if addiction percentages remain the same but crime goes down.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Refer to my post above about drug users being prolific liars, more so than even the Clintons – if that’s possible.
There’s nothing good or positive to be gained from drug use or addiction. Who knows, maybe Freedom Fighters marathon time could have been better without it. And I certainly have never heard a former addict say “that heroine addiction was a great time of my life”, but the war on drugs has not worked and it may be time to try something else.
Yogi, we must have struck a nerve with our Progressive friends who like to smoke weed, lie and vote for Clinton.
Agent,
I am in no way in favor of Cannabis, but SWFL Agent really has it right. The war on drugs has failed; it started at the end of Prohibition when all the law enforcement regulating alcohol was facing job loss. They had to focus on another bugaboo to justify their existence.
James –
It is debatable that the war on drugs has failed. Even if it has, that is no reason to give up fighting. People’s lives are at stake – both people addicted to drugs and other people who are robbed or killed by those really addicted needing to feed their habit.
Reducing fines and letting “low level” drug dealers out of jail is not going to solve the problem. They are just going to continue to infiltrate those most vulnerable – kids and addicts.
Democrats continue to perpetuate the problem in the inner cities by allowing these situations to continue. They are stacking the deck against the minorities and then blaming the violence on the guns and cops. Why can’t anyone on the left see and understand this?
It’s frustrating and depressing for us on the outside looking in. I can’t imagine how it feels for those that are mired in that lifestyle.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Yogi, do you think it is a fair question to ask on an employment application – Have you used or do you presently use Cannabis/Marijuana? I am sure the Progressive crowd would say that is an unfair question and no proof that it has damaged their ability to think critically or perform their jobs.
By the way, I expect at least 40 downthumbs from this question.
presuming you are talking about an insurance application, if marijuana is illegal in the state where the party is applying for a job, it is a valid question. asking that question in colorado would not be fair to an insurance applicant.
Confused –
First, Agent was asking about an employment application.
Second, even if it was an insurance application, asking underwriting questions has nothing to do with whether something is legal or not. They ask about using tobacco products on life insurance applications and that’s legal.
“They ask about using tobacco products on life insurance applications and that’s legal.”
Yeah, because tobacco has been proven to destroy people’s health so the underwriters need to know how to appropriately price the policy for the future exposure. If weed caused cancer, I could see why they’d ask. If weed use indicated who abides by the law and who does not, again I could see why they’d ask.
Integrity, these bots are pretty easily “confused” about the difference in tobacco and pot on an application for Life Insurance. The last time I checked, smoking cigarettes did not make the smoker high or impair their judgment or make them a dufus. Yes, the rates for smokers is much higher as they should be, especially in the 40-50 age crowd. I had a guy ask me, would it be less expensive if I quit smoking? My answer was, yes, but it takes quite a while for the nicotine to wash out of the blood and that blood test will catch it. I have had a few applicants say they quit 6 months ago, go through the exam and the company would approve them, but rate them as smokers. Some bought coverage and some declined the higher premiums.
agent – simple question for you. does weed cause cancer at the same or worse rate that cigarettes do?
put aside that weed could increase stupidity – if weed causes cancer, i apologize because that should be factored into premiums since weed smokers will need expensive chemotherapy.
Confused – there is not enough data to definitively state whether weed causes cancer at any specified rate. This is because most people have not admitted to using it since it is illegal.
Weed causes damage to the lungs. Check out the American Lung Assoc’s website for details.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
MJ, for some people, is like alcohol in that they can socially get high responsibly and still maintain a normal lifestyle. For other people, it can be a serious problem similar to alcoholism and can also be a gateway drug.
We all personally know people that fall into the above categories.
To imply that MJ is totally harmless is lie. It physically alters the mind. Anything that does that can cause harm.
The issue is whether the govt believes the people are responsible enough to use it in a similar fashion as alcohol. Employers should have the right to have policies in place, similar to alcohol use.
Insurers (life and auto, particularly) should be allowed to underwrite these exposures in line with tobacco and alcohol use.
Users should not feel discriminated against because they choose to do something that is outside of that carriers underwriting appetite. There are plenty of other carriers waiting to offer their coverage.
Progressive would probably write the Auto. They write almost anything for a price.
Yes; they’re Progressives; look at the owners!
Comment previously hidden by BOT attack on my post replying to Agent:
Yes; they’re Progressives; look at the owners!
Note: to restore your comments previously hidden by BOTS, click the button that says click to read comment, then paint it, copy it, and paste it into a new post, as I did in this post.
Yogi Polar Berra, you do realize that you don’t have to repost a comment because it gets hidden, right? ‘Click here to see’ allows you to read the comment.
Comment previously hidden by BOT attack on my post replying to Agent:
Yes; they’re Progressives; look at the owners!
Note: to restore your comments previously hidden by BOTS, click the button that says click to read comment, then paint it, copy it, and paste it into a new post, as I did in this post.
You have got to be kidding if you think marijuana has contributed to no (or little as you state)traffic problems. There is a subset of data being used right now to help explain current, increasing Personal Auto loss trends that shows a strong correlation between accident frequency and liberal marijuana use and possession laws in several states. Yes, I know that proves nothing to most people, but the correlation is there for a reason.
It is (probably) as unsafe as alcohol and it is illegal in most places.
As a side note somewhat unrelated to the discussion, please take a look at the crime rates in Denver since the legalization.
Bryan –
very good points. People also need to look at the increase in the homeless population in CO, too. I know several people that live there that are complaining about this. Many people are moving there because of the MJ law but they are unemployed and living on the streets.
So Integrity, do you think the increase in the homeless rate is due to people losing jobs because of MJ use? Homeless people moving to Colorado because of the availability of MJ? Or something completely different? It certainly can’t be economic related as Mr. Obama and his paid shill Josh Ernest are continually telling us what a great job they are doing fixing the economy.
Dave, we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
All this coming from the idiot who said unemployment was higher now than when Obama took office. You are a clueless moron.
AGENT WROTE the following, (but it was censored by BOTS above):
Dave, we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
(Restored by Yogi Polar Berra, in his fight against censorship by BOTS who fear the truth!)
AGENT WROTE the following, (but it was censored by BOTS above):
Dave; we know how Obama has fixed the economy in under 8 years. 95 million adults not in the workforce, bogus unemployment rate of 4.7% lowest labor participation rate in 40 years, record numbers on food stamps, Social Security Disability at record numbers. What a record!
(Restored by Yogi Polar Berra, in his fight against censorship by BOTS who fear the truth!)
Dave-
I don’t know. I have not seen any stats on that yet.
My opinion is that it is people moving to CO because it is legal and they are hoping to obtain a job. They may or may not have previously been employed or homeless.
Integrity, there was a story last year on a business owner moving his business from Denver to SC because his employees kept showing up high or not showing up at all because they were stoned. Unproductive stoned workers do not a successful business make.
Keep it up Planet in your quest to suppress free speech. That is what Progressive Socialists do.
Note my new method of combating the BOTS who are censoring the speech of others…. copy censored posts, and paste them into a new post.
In your Face(book), BOTS!
if you are going to repost every agent post that gets hidden, be fair and treat everyone the same way by reposting EVERY post that’s hidden regardless of who wrote it.
Sorry, karma; that’s your job; i.e. to aid free speech of the clueless posters.
so you’re only going to aid free speech if you agree with what was posted and you’re going to keep the speech of others with whom you don’t agree censored?
karma police is the BOT Squad leader!
integrity – I normally agree with you, but the definition of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, is insanity. That’s the war on drugs.
Good point. Then we should just legalize all drugs then?? I don’t think so. It would have a far worse effect on society to just give up.
As I said in this thread, elsewhere; pot users tend to lie a lot, forget plenty of important details, and use the legality of alcohol use as a debate point without realizing they have different long-term effects.
Yogi Polar Berra,
Yes, they have different long-term effects. Studies have shown alcohol to be worse. Not only that, marijuana has far more medical benefits.
http://www.livescience.com/42738-marijuana-vs-alcohol-health-effects.html
http://www.medicaldaily.com/marijuana-vs-alcohol-effects-psychoactive-drugs-have-physical-and-mental-health-332094
Try being a true Conservative and tell the government to stay out of the private lives of its citizens.
Every person who switches from addictive, very harmful, accident causing, violence-inducing alcohol, to near harmless marijuana, improves their health tremendously – as well as the lives of their family and community.
Stop the bigotry! – That’s the MOST dangerous lifestyle.
‘near harmless marijuana’.
LOL @ that ^ myth!
‘near harmless marijuana’.
LOL @ that ^ urban legend/ myth!
Yogi, here is how it might go: Mr Applicant, we did a blood test and noticed that you have a higher than normal concentration of Cannabis in your system. You don’t have Cancer, Glaucoma or any other diseases, do you? Answer: No, I just like to get high all the time. Don’t worry, I can handle it. I don’t usually have more than 3 or 4 joints per day. My buddy wants me to try Meth and says the high is much better, but don’t worry, I will be responsible with it.
John Thomas –
The MOST dangerous lifestyle is anyone who is addicted to any drug or alcohol and thinks they do not have a problem. Some are more violent than others. They are lying to themselves and to others.
Addictions do not discriminate. They affect all races, genders and ages. Anyone thinking otherwise is naïve or ignorant to the truth.
There are no such persons because the descriptions and attributes you gave to alcohol and marijuana are completely false.
Life insurance is a ripoff.
As someone who has sold Life Insurance for 35 years, I can testify that Life Insurance has prevented much financial hardship of a surviving spouse, children, provided college educations, paid off homes and many other expenses. You must have no family at all so you don’t need it.
Well said, agent. Life insurance is there for the ones that the decedent loves the most. It benefits many others , too.
Integrity, for the average 25 year old male in good health, non smoker, they often can get a $100,000 Level Term Life policy for less than $350 annual premium. That sure is a rip off, isn’t it? Hey, these Bots can leave the insurance to the parents who let them live in the basement and not launch and get free food, laundry service and stay on the parents health policy until 26.
integrity, I had a customer and wife a few years back that bought some high amounts of Life Insurance. They owned a business which had a lien on it. The guy got sick with Cancer and died. The wife used the proceeds to pay off the lien on the business and the lien on their home. She then changed her beneficiary to a grown daughter who also worked in the business. The wife also had gotten sick with a lung disease and she died. Both of them were in their 50’s when they passed. Now, the daughter had the proceeds to continue the business. It was quite tragic, but the Life Insurance was there when it was needed. I don’t think they thought Life Insurance was a rip off.
Take note from the story that the application process was discontinued, instead of just a rate hike. If cannabis use results in no meaningful increase in risk of loss, but there remains, for whatever reason, an unjustified stigma among insurers over its use, then it follows that there is a lot of money to be made by some carriers willing to accept the risk. Bottom line: Put your money where your joint is and buy the stock of THAT company (or start one of your own) instead of protesting “discrimination!”
The problem is that your argument is wrong, yet you continue to try to persuade people that marijuana is harmless when many studies have shown disastrous long-term effects.
Everyone knows you can smoke marijuana and later sober up, similar to alcohol. Few pot heads learned that long-term use of mj leads to destruction of brain cells at a high rate. At some point, some did learn that, but ignored it because their judgement was then badly impaired.
after reading all these posts I have the munchies, man…..
The BOTS are calling in back up BOTS because they’re having trouble keeping up with censoring all my reposts of censored posts.
And they say marijuana users suffer from paranoia.
Hahahaha. I needed that laugh. Thanks Ron!
Yogi, judging from all the BOT censorship of our posts, they are craving their next joint and they don’t have a problem in the world stealing from their employers, lying about it and lying that they aren’t doing it. Their maturity level is about third grade and we know who they are.
The BOTs have been inactive lately because this article encouraged their pot head operators to light up. Once they come down from their ‘cloud’, we might see more of them activating their BOTs.
Yogi, we have heard much about the benefits of the “Cloud” from the internet geeks. In this case, the cloud is around the heads of those puffing on their weed. I wonder how many millions of brain cells they have killed just today. At this rate, they will be totally incoherent in a matter of weeks and then they will have to be shown how to vote for HiLLIARy in November.
The only reason I ever stopped smoking pot was because of the criminal behavior in the supply chain. I purchased from a friend who worked on Wall Street, who purchased from her secretary, who’s boyfriend was a dealer. But I learned that he had been arrested with guns, and I never purchased again. To me, decriminalization would remove most of the other crimes associated with drug distribution. Then we could focus on the drug itself. There is way too much b.s. about what pot itself does to people. (of course you should not drive under the influence of any product that makes you less sharp, so that has nothing to do with the drug itself.) What really harms people who smoke it is the herbicide and pesticide treatment of the plant.. If we could grow it in our own gardens like an herb, it would be mild and no one would get hurt from the item itself. American culture is obsessed with taboos about pot, and I observe that this demonizing of pot is more about the biased beliefs about people who smoke it than about the plant.
Great points, Libra.
You hit on something that causes concern and possibly separates alcohol and the legalization of pot, especially as it pertains to minors.
To my knowledge, there are no “alcohol dealers” in the neighborhoods like there are drug dealers. (do people supply alcohol to minors, of course, but not in the same vein or capacity like a drug dealer).
If pot is legalized, would drug dealers stop selling pot to minors? If so, that would be a good thing. However, in my opinion, I think this would continue because pot is already saturated in the underground world of drug dealing. Adults would no longer have a need to use the neighborhood dealer to get their pot, so the only available target audience would be the minors. Decriminalization would end up being a farce because dealers could simply only carry the amounts that are “legal” and might not ever face prosecution.
Bottom line is that the current pot is not the pot used by hippies in the 60’s. The current level of THC has been bred up to 1000% of the level present in the 60’s pot. That makes it damn dangerous and not the safe hippy dippy diversion that those who first smoked it in the 60’s used. There is also a synthetic pot out there that even without being laced with heroin or worse, has a high fatality rate. Lace it and your literally are taking your life in your hands with every toke.
This is not a political issue. Its a common sense issue. Were the current THC levels like those in the 60’s legalized pot would be ok….but… they aren’t and as such they have finally made pot a true gateway drug.
Mighty, I have never seen any info on the difference between 60’s pot and pot of today. However, it is a gateway drug and we see story after story that pot smokers often gravitate toward Meth and later Cocaine and Heroine when they get out of control. That is why the Mexican drug lords do so well in this country.
“Mighty, I have never seen any info” You should have stopped writing there – at least you’d have one accurate post under your belt!
How about you furnish the info on the difference between the pot of the 60’s and today’s more lethal combination? You should be an expert on it since you are apparently high as you type your incorrigible reply.
why should i do that? i agree with The Mighty Quinn that THC potency is higher now than it was 50 years ago and wasn’t arguing otherwise.
Confused, you lead a very confused life and are on the wrong side of every issue. Perhaps a frontal lobotomy would be a help since you are so far off in your belief system. What a sad existence you must have.
thanks for your insulting reply. glad to see you haven’t learned how to talk like an adult yet.
“you lead a very confused life and are on the wrong side of every issue”
i have told you 10+ times that i think obamacare is a super-duper failure. since i’m on the wrong side of every issue, you must think it’s awesome!
hey everyone? agent loves obamacare!
i have also told you i think hillary is a lying crook.
hey everyone? agent thinks hillary is honest and genuine!
i have told you i think guns should NOT be banned, even automatic weapons.
hey everyone? agent wants to take your guns away!
Like I said Confused, you may need professional help from your Anger Management issues and Progressive agenda. I have yet to see you disavow Bernie. You go into a rage and talk all around it. Now, you can loudly say – Bernie is no longer in the race so I don’t have to disavow him. By the way, he is now hugging Hilliary on stage after telling America that she is not fit to be President for the past 6 months. Politics makes for strange bedfellows, doesn’t it?
thanks for your second insulting reply in a row. glad to see you still haven’t learned how to talk like an adult yet.
am i on the wrong side of the obamacare, hillary and gun control issues or can you actually admit you wrong for once and we agree on those three topics?
Freedom Fighter – not sure of the 0 stat for Marijuana. A couple of years ago after legalization in CO a WY student jumped to his death from a motel window because of the hallucination he was having after eating an edible. I guess it was not an overdose, but it was fatal!
Can you pass the test?
1. Do the AMA and the American Psychiatric Association support or oppose legalization? (Both have always opposed.)
2. Does regular marijuana use decrease IQ? (By 8 points on average with frequent users in their late teens and early 20s).
3. Does regular marijuana use increase mental illness? Science now indicates a doubling of the chance of serious mental illness for regular marijuana users. (Ie. some regular marijauna users are developing schizophrenia or bipolar syndrome, but would not have if they had never used marijuana.)
4. Does marijuana increase or decrease motivation, according to psychologists? (Too easy.)
5. Does marijuana use by pregnant women endanger the unborn child? 3 studies indicate the danger may be greater than lead poisoning.
So, does marijuana use indicate a more dangerous lifestyle?